"If You're Single, You Aren't Busy" by Motte Brown on 01/06/2010 at 2:52 PM

I just wanted to throw this blog post out there for discussion. It's written by Pastor Bob Thune of Coram Deo Church in Omaha, Nebraska about single guys saying they're too busy to serve. In short, he says it's impossible to be both single and "too busy." Here's why:

A few years ago I told single dudes at Coram Deo, “If you’re single, you aren’t busy.” Clearly, that was a form of mild hyperbole for the sake of making a point. Some of the single guys took offense. After all, we have many unmarried men at Coram Deo who are med students, law students, etc. They are busting their chops studying and trying to survive the pressure-cooker of post-graduate work. So they wondered: isn’t it true that I’m busy? Answer: it depends on how you understand busyness.

Certainly, there is a sense in which all students – especially grad students – are busy. They are involved in a time-consuming endeavor that requires sustained mental energy and often lots and lots of hard work. But I am arguing for a different understanding of the word busy.

Most of us think of “busyness” strictly in terms of hours devoted to a specific job, role, or task. Instead, think of busyness as the amount of autonomy you have in the use of your time. When you are single, you are in control of your schedule. You have complete freedom to decide what to devote your time to. The decision of when to study, when to sleep, when to eat, is yours and yours alone. But once you enter into marriage, you’re no longer autonomous in your time management. And when you have kids, things really change. Even your “free time” is devoted first and foremost to the other human beings who depend on you. Which means you play a lot less golf and a lot more peek-a-boo. Your kids begin to determine when you sleep and eat – which aids in the process of dying to oneself.

What do you guys think? Though Pastor Thune acknowledges it's a bit of hyperbole, is it impossible to be single and too busy?

HT: Take Your Vitamin Z

"If You're Single, You Aren't Busy" by Motte Brown on 01/06/2010 at 2:52 PM

I just wanted to throw this blog post out there for discussion. It's written by Pastor Bob Thune of Coram Deo Church in Omaha, Nebraska about single guys saying they're too busy to serve. In short, he says it's impossible to be both single and "too busy." Here's why:

A few years ago I told single dudes at Coram Deo, “If you’re single, you aren’t busy.” Clearly, that was a form of mild hyperbole for the sake of making a point. Some of the single guys took offense. After all, we have many unmarried men at Coram Deo who are med students, law students, etc. They are busting their chops studying and trying to survive the pressure-cooker of post-graduate work. So they wondered: isn’t it true that I’m busy? Answer: it depends on how you understand busyness.

Certainly, there is a sense in which all students – especially grad students – are busy. They are involved in a time-consuming endeavor that requires sustained mental energy and often lots and lots of hard work. But I am arguing for a different understanding of the word busy.

Most of us think of “busyness” strictly in terms of hours devoted to a specific job, role, or task. Instead, think of busyness as the amount of autonomy you have in the use of your time. When you are single, you are in control of your schedule. You have complete freedom to decide what to devote your time to. The decision of when to study, when to sleep, when to eat, is yours and yours alone. But once you enter into marriage, you’re no longer autonomous in your time management. And when you have kids, things really change. Even your “free time” is devoted first and foremost to the other human beings who depend on you. Which means you play a lot less golf and a lot more peek-a-boo. Your kids begin to determine when you sleep and eat – which aids in the process of dying to oneself.

What do you guys think? Though Pastor Thune acknowledges it's a bit of hyperbole, is it impossible to be single and too busy?

HT: Take Your Vitamin Z

Comments

[1. BDB said the following at 3:09 PM on Jan 6:]

1

Show me a pastor who thinks single guys attending grad school aren't busy and I'll show you a pastor who went to a really easy seminary.

[2. Ted Slater said the following at 3:17 PM on Jan 6:]

2

BDB et al. -- please note how this pastor is defining "busyness."

[3. Jeremiah said the following at 3:22 PM on Jan 6:]

3

I agree with Pastor Thune’s description of autonomy. As a single man, I have a certain amount of time where I am contractually committed to work (for my employer) during the week. However, the vast majority of the rest of my time is extremely flexible – Do I work extra hours? Do I go to the gym? Do I clean my house? Do I go to bible study? The choices are wide open. I would trade every minute of that for a wife and kids, though… It makes my irritated when pastors keep advocating “just take a wife” as if it were simple. Really? Where? How? What if I don’t like the choices that are available?

[4. Andrea-Elena said the following at 3:27 PM on Jan 6:]

4

I get the pastor's definition. I think he's got the wrong signifier for what he's wanting to signify. He's not talking about busyness. He's talking about autonomy.

[5. BDB said the following at 3:34 PM on Jan 6:]

5

The OP wrote:

>>When you are single, you are in control of your schedule. You have complete freedom to decide what to devote your time to. The decision of when to study, when to sleep, when to eat, is yours and yours alone.<<

This statement is false.

Particularly for those who are working full time while attending graduate school. Figure about 40-50 hours per week of work, plus time for commuting, and 60 hours are spoken for right off the bat. Subtract another 8 hours for grad school classes. Then subtract the times the library is not open during non-work hours and it constrains when you can do your research. And, if you have to be to work at a certain time, it constrains when you can sleep. The result is a few hours here and there that are crammed with reading, writing, and/or coordinating schedules with other team members. Oh, and depending on the professor, they may have mid-course deadlines for projects that constrain when things are due. It is unfortunate when professors of working students demand weekly assignments, as it may not be possible to carve out enough time each week. Classes with one big paper and a final due at the end of the semester are much easier to manage.

I'd say that the time management challenges involved in fitting in graduate school around a work schedule are similar to the challenges in fitting in operational tasks around a toddlers schedule - using naps and after bedtime to get things done. It means being in a near constant state of sleep deprivation and always tired when working on a project.

Though I found time to volunteer while I was in grad school.

[6. Rebekah in SoCal said the following at 3:35 PM on Jan 6:]

6

As a single woman, I definately agree with Pastor THune's point about autonomy.

I am in a Bible study with woman of various life stages. The mothers with younger children, have a v. limited amount of time to spend on their study. Many have remarked that if isn't done by 530 or 6 AM, it will not happen that day.

[7. Louise from Chicago said the following at 3:42 PM on Jan 6:]

7

No it is not "impossible to be single and too busy."

What about single parents?

And I would hesitate to label anything as "impossible."

[8. JVR from Denver said the following at 3:48 PM on Jan 6:]

8

If that's what Thune meant, he should have just said that single men are independent.

This explanation reads a bit like damage control to me.

[9. obewan said the following at 3:53 PM on Jan 6:]

9

Don't forget, married people have a spouse to help with groceries, cooking, cleaning, and laundry.

I heard the same thing from my pastor when I was in grad school. I listened to him, and he dragged me off to Mexico for 3 weeks in the middle of the semester. I got a C in the hardest course of the program, they put me on academic probation, and I nearly got kicked out of RPI.

When I was in grad school, I was working 60 hours a week, spending 20 hours a week on homework, leading a singles Bible study, and participating in an older singles Bible study. I also did all my own cooking, laundry, and cleaning and grocery shopping.

The elder was not happy. He insisted on me being a teen leader too, with a group of teens to "disciple". He said my involvement with singles was not "ministry". To him, it was "play" and the "young adults" were too "big" for a "teen group" and were living in "protracted adolescence". He saw the young single men as being immature.

[10. livinginfreedom said the following at 3:58 PM on Jan 6:]

10

are you kidding?! this is a ridiculous statement. i don't think your relationship status has any connection to your busyness. i recently earned two degrees while working full time and volunteering on the side. this statement makes me really mad, actually. i, too, would gladly give up some of the busyness for a man and family. after a few years of leaving time for a relationship, to no avail, i decided to carpe diem and make the most out of every minute. i know married people who are much less busy. the statement is just really unfounded.

[11. James said the following at 4:27 PM on Jan 6:]

11

Jesus and Paul were single.

They were both pretty busy.

[12. JuliaH said the following at 4:29 PM on Jan 6:]

12

Sigh. Generalizations like that are unhelpful and just increase the us vs. them mentality in churches. I wish that pastors would keep their mouths shut sometimes.

[13. Tami said the following at 4:30 PM on Jan 6:]

13

BDB (5) speaks truth.

My thoughts:

One should *never* be "too busy" to serve God at one's church in *some* capacity. I work, go to school, and serve pretty frequently. If you have a heart to serve, God will grant you the time. Now, if you're working and in school, it may be a season where you serve *less* than otherwise, but you still must serve. So yes, I think "I'm too busy" CAN be a copout. But let's face it, unmarried people aren't the only ones guilty of this.

On the other hand, I think that how much you serve is a matter that's first between you and God, and then between those who oversee you in the church (pastor, discipler, etc). If you're stretched and stressed, tell someone. They may not realize the demands on your time, and may assume you have time. (In my case, there were a couple people who didn't realize how busy I was until they went back to school or work themselves.)

If you *are* busy, don't let fear that someone will think you're "lazy" deter you from saying no if God isn't leading you to be involved in something. I don't think there's anything God-honoring about grumbling your way through a service project.

I think that when unmarried people get upset when they hear about all the "time" they have, they're not necessarily reacting to the idea that they may indeed be more autonomous, but instead that someone -- who may have the married-with-children life they'd very much LIKE to have -- is making assumptions about what their lives "should" look like, and that the responsibilities they have (e.g., grad school) are not that important. As livinginfreedom (10) wrote, many women would GLADLY exchange much of whatever is on their current schedule for a life as a wife and mother. It just comes across as though the person is telling them that even if they serve, work, and study wholeheartedly unto the Lord, their current activities are less meaningful and important than those of whoever's making the statement. Thus it *can* sound a bit arrogant, even if it's not intentional. In the case of the statement Motte quoted, it almost sounds as though the pastor is defining busyness on his terms -- in a manner that suggests that being a parent (i.e., his life) is the only life that is truly "busy" and thus no one else has any excuse. So yes, I think he's in error when he says that it's impossible for a single person to be busy.

[14. Vanessa said the following at 4:39 PM on Jan 6:]

14

#9 Obewan - You hit the nail on the head when you said that married people have someone to share the load.

As a single person, I have to split my time between work, household chores, study, recreation, etc. Do I have more flexibility? Yes. Am I less busy? Not really.

A normal career-minded person works between 40-50 hours a week (or more) and has another 10 hours (at least) of lunch break and commuting time. Laundry, meal preparation and clean up, tiding the house, and other various chores such as yardwork, maintenance, etc (unless you make enough money to pay someone else to do all of this for you) take up another 4-5 hours a week at least. Most studies I've read state that there is an average of 25 hours worth of household duties a week to be done in a normal household. That's anywhere from 60-100 hours a week of stuff that HAS to be done.

I agree that a better term for the idea would be "independence" rather than "busy." If anything, I think single people are MORE busy than their married peers because they've been persuaded that their single years is the time to live it up, to do everything. Spend as much time studying, relaxing, socializing, serving, as you can because once you get married, all that will change. That's been what has been preached at us. We're told that there is so much stuff we can do while we're single, we need to do it all.

Married people can bow out of things saying they need "together" time or families can say that the kids' schedule won't permit it. Nobody gets offended and most people expect it. Single people don't have any excuse except, "I don't want to" or "I'm already busy" and that often is not acceptable.

[15. Katrece said the following at 4:45 PM on Jan 6:]

15

I think at certain stages of anyone's life, regardless of marital status, it can be more difficult to invest as much into kingdom service. I teach a bible study and there's a med student who comes. The course we did last fall was rather rigorous- why not, we're studying God's word! I totally understand when people don't have time to complete the "homework"; the important thing is that they're reading God's word. I was so impressed one week when the med student came even though he had a huge test the next day. At this stage of his life, he has just as much to do, and I would argue even more to do, than some married people.

[16. Jeni said the following at 4:47 PM on Jan 6:]

16

Marital status doesn't indicate busy-ness. I know quite a few married people who aren't busy. Among my friends who are married, I'm usually the one who is not current with several television shows. This does not mean that they are non-busy; I think it does indicate that they do make time to watch the shows that they want to watch. Everyone chooses how and where to spend their time.

Single people make commitments and have responsibilities in life. Therefore people depend on them to be places and do things. This pastor's statement reminds me of a sermon on singleness I heard at my church about 7 years ago. The basic message was: "Single people should be using all of their non-work hours serving the church in any and all capacitities." All people, single or married, should serve the church, community, family and friends to whom God has called them.

[17. Karen said the following at 5:02 PM on Jan 6:]

17

But busyness *isn't* the amount of autonomy you have to plan your time. That's what flexibility is.

Certainly a single person has more flexibility that a married person with the exact same amount of responsibilites, but they are equally busy.

[18. Michael said the following at 5:16 PM on Jan 6:]

18

Maybe he forgot what it's like to be in school. While I have no doubts about the busyness of family life, student life is plenty busy too. Between work, class and study, some weeks you are literally working all the time. No books or movies with the kids. A little game of peekaboo at night would be relaxing for a change.

[19. Keith said the following at 5:23 PM on Jan 6:]

19

There are some significant exceptions, but most single guys do have a lot of free time on their hands. Unfortunately, there are very few areas in the church they can serve. In fact, apart from being part of the worship team or running the sound board, there are almost no areas for single men to serve.

For that reason, most my volunteer service is done outide of the church. I have volunteered on a crisis line, the Scouts, with Big Brothers, and a crime prevention group. It's pretty sad that most single guys have to look outside the church for places to volunteer at.

[20. SJ said the following at 5:59 PM on Jan 6:]

20

With all due respect to Pastor Thune, I must contend that his statement is a broad generalization that is unfair to many. Medical professionals are a good example of this: while they have a little bit of flexibilities in their schedules, many times, they have tighter time constraints than many married couples. My old church in Saint Louis would always have at least 25% of our medical students, residents, nurses, and other medical staff absent on Sundays and for ministry events because they had to work.

I do agree however that many singles use "being busy" as a poor excuse for just not coming out. Having been a part time student with a full time job for nearly six years now, if God is a priority, it's not too difficult to carve out time to support ministries.

That being said, I do think that too many married couples use their children as excuses to not be as active in the church and shift a disproportionate amount, if not all, of ministry activities to single people and the tiny handful of married people who have stepped up to serve the church, overloading singles and sometimes creating resentment in the process. Much like the "busy" single people, if these married people had their priorities straight, they could find time to serve in at least some small way.

[21. Benjamin said the following at 6:00 PM on Jan 6:]

21

"Certainly, there is a sense in which all students – especially grad students – are busy."

This seems to be a common assumption, but I am not sure why. I am in my 4th year of graduate work, and never in my undergraduate or graduate schooling have I come anywhere near spending 40 hours per week on schoolwork/research. There are those who study obsessively or are forced to work full-time, of course, but by and large, student life is the least busy time of life.

[22. BDB said the following at 6:07 PM on Jan 6:]

22

OK, I looked at the cited author's bio. Now I see why his single years weren't "busy." Looks like he had to jam with his band and plan those social events for college students. Yeah, I can see why his personal experience is that single men have a lot of autonomy and aren't busy.

Some of us got real jobs after college. We gave up that autonomy and started supporting ourselves. And yes, work forces people to grow up because if you don't learn to give up what you want, you get fired. The people who get promoted are those who put their personal wants aside and do the tasks that the business and their boss need to be done, even when those tasks are unpleasant and not stuff we like to do.

As I regularly explained to my staff, we all have parts of the job we don't like. Be thankful for the hassles, because without them, you could pay someone half as much to do only the pleasant stuff. I led my staff by making sure everyone had at least one thing they wanted and enjoyed doing. And as a team we divided up all the unpleasant and boring tasks to share the load. Even though I was theoretically "in charge" and had control of my time, in reality had had to allocate a large portion of my time to tasks I found necessary evils. It turns out they pay you better when you take on the work that no one else wants to do.

[23. Cait said the following at 6:17 PM on Jan 6:]

23

Did he forget that single people have family too and that comes with responisibilities and commitments? No my time is not autonomous.

Also he is saying we are too busy to serve. Serve what? Serve the church or serve God? I'm not saying they are separate things but I choose the spend my time studying because I believe God has called me to that profession and I need to do my best. Does that mean I have to forego formal ministry? yes, but that doesn't mean I'm not chosing to spend my time in service. I'm serving God where He has lead me.

[24. Dave said the following at 6:30 PM on Jan 6:]

24

Re: #8

It doesn't just sound like damage control. It is damage control.

Bob Thune had a nastier version of this post up earlier, but then added a bit of a disclaimer and wiped out prior comments (including mine) dealing with things that some here have mentioned (e.g. being able to divide household chores)

[25. TFA said the following at 7:13 PM on Jan 6:]

25

"When you are single, you are in control of your schedule. You have complete freedom to decide what to devote your time to. The decision of when to study, when to sleep, when to eat, is yours and yours alone"

You are always in control of your schedule regardless of your marital status. You prioritize what is important - sometimes it's a spouse, sometimes, it's a career. Being married doesn't mean the spouse takes priorirty over the career. It should, but this is not the default setting. What you devote time to is a function of your life goals and purpose, not a a function of your marital status.

[26. Sara said the following at 7:19 PM on Jan 6:]

26

Point A: Singles can be busy, even single men. Many people I know go to school full-time and work full-time.

Point B: What is with this discussion now about who is busier: Married couples or Singles? I am married, but I am probably going back to school while working full-time. My husband works one full-time job and two part-time jobs. When we are home, the last thing we want to do together are chores. However, I wouldn't say I am busier than some singles I know. How busy you are has nothing to do with your marital status. That is just silly.

[27. Mark said the following at 7:36 PM on Jan 6:]

27

As a recently-married guy, this pastor definitely has a point. When I was single, I wasn't available all the time, but I could be available at any time. When he says "busy," what he means is not "full schedule" but "flexible schedule."

A single, independent grad student can take a semester or two off and resume studies later. A married man with a family cannot do the same; he has continuous obligations to his wife and children.

Before I got married, I often heard that a wife can be one of the most powerful sanctifying agents in your life. That sounded great to me, but I didn't really understand what it meant at the time. Am I growing closer to Christ now that I am married? Yes. But sanctification is not fun. I am learning how selfish and despicable I really am. That "dying to self" part means openly acknowledging your faults and changing your ways, and it's hard.

Don't let this culture tell you that following God's model for marriage means you're "whipped." Or rather, do let them tell you that, and let it remind you to share in Christ's suffering.

[28. John Mac said the following at 7:39 PM on Jan 6:]

28

I think his defintion of busyness is really arbitrary, and I think a better word for what he means when he says "busy" would be "constrained", or "non-atonomous".

That said, I think his overall point is often valid. I have done a lot of activities, jobs, volunteering, etc. during my four years at university, but I still do have free time. And so it frustrates me when I see other single students who have less on their plate than me, turn down a serving opportunity because they are "too busy". What they really mean is they aren't willing to sacrifice anything else they are doing. And given how much time I know they spend on procrastination (rhymes with "lace book") it's a little sad to see.

So while I disagree with his terminology, and I think busyness and autonomy are two entirely different concepts, I think his point is generally true.

[29. Peter said the following at 7:46 PM on Jan 6:]

29

Point that hasn't been made is that a lot of what fills the time for a single adult, is contributing to their future marriage and family life.
Getting an education, paying off a house.....

Who says that the responsibilities of married life start only at the altar?

[30. John said the following at 7:47 PM on Jan 6:]

30

Hyperbole: deliberate and obvious exaggeration used for affect

This is overstating the single person’s freedom and the married people's commitment to others. Singles do not have complete freedom from biological constraints, social obligations or restrictions on their free time. And neither does getting married and having children automatically result in ‘dying to self’, due to putting the needs of others first.

Certainly, having a larger family can make you ‘busy’. But to be frank, this is a choice. Regardless of marital status, people make choices that result in consequences. A choice to be busy can result from explicit goals (like attending grad school, or having multiple children), or by necessity, such as working hard to support yourself.

I think it is what drives the choice to be busy that is important. Are we implying that busyness in our christian walk somehow equates to Godliness, so the busier we are with ‘ministry’ activities (even to our own family), the more sanctified we are becoming? Being busy is not always healthy: people can be busy to mask unmet emotional needs (like being single, when they don’t want to be), or to cover up brokenness (possibly unrecognised, or too painful to confront). But because they’re ‘ministering’, it’s perceived as acceptable and encouraged.

[31. connie said the following at 8:31 PM on Jan 6:]

31

I'd like to point out here a common misconception that "serving" has to mean serving the church in some capacity. While most folks can and should serve in their local church, I know from experience that serving God does not necessarily mean doing "church work." I serve God at my secular job-I have had opportunities to pray with customers, minister to coworkers, etc. (I have a Christian boss so have pretty free reign which is nice) and I am also a wife who has meals to prepare, a house to clean, clothing to wash, etc. (My kids are grown.) In this particular season it would be irresponsible of me to do anything else since right now my ministry is at home and at work, or informally on the computer...in other words, life IS ministry if you have that mindset. Anyone who guilts someone else into a church job is not doing God any favors.

I certainly hope at some point to be able to come back home fully and at that point, of course pick up the kinds of things I used to do at church. But I am responsible only to God and to my husband for my time, and I respect each season in my life. Frankly if someone is in grad school and working full time and also has to manage their own home I think it is irresponsible to expect them to lead a small group as well, for the simple reason that a person in that season does not have the time they need to spend with the people in the group both in and outside group time. My husband and I have both led small groups in the past both singly and together so I know quite well what that sort of responsibility entails.

[32. Kathleen said the following at 10:00 PM on Jan 6:]

32

Busyness is not the same as parenthood.
Not all dependents are children.
Single doesn't mean without kids.
Not all responsibilities revolve around children.
Having children isn't an excuse for poor time management skills.

The pastor might want to think a little harder next time.

[33. Carolyn said the following at 10:24 PM on Jan 6:]

33

I really don't think he's correct on this one. Some of us single people have lives and schedules that are very dependent on our obligations. Mine often revolves around a pager that can take me for hours any time day or night. Sure, I didn't initially have to make that commitment, or my commitment to go to school, or to work, or to continue to be an active part of my family, but now that those commitments are made, my schedule is just as planned and just as dependent on other people as most married people that I know. Really not a lot of autonomy in the life of someone with demanding obligations. Marriage can be one of those demanding obligations, but it certainly isn't the only one.

[34. saidahwk said the following at 10:31 PM on Jan 6:]

34

Okay, a lot of you guys who are citing commitments like school, work, etc are missing the point. The point is, you are responsible for yourself. No one else. If you chose to work less, not work at all, go to school, not go to school at all, it's up to you. If you chose to take 21 units and be "too busy" or take 12 units and have tons of free time, it's your choice. If I get a job, or don't get a job, it's something I can't do without discussing with my husband and considering the ramifications on the people God has asked me to be responsible for (my family). The Bible doesn't ask us to go to grad school, work over time or even "have recreation time." Unless you have a spouse or children, the Bible is pretty clear that your time is God's.

Oh, and #11, Jesus and Paul were busy... doing what the author is saying the rest of us shouldn't be too busy NOT to do. Serving.

[35. Matt said the following at 11:39 PM on Jan 6:]

35

Man .... someone hit a sore topic.

Keith #19: I'd have to strongly disagree. There are plenty of oppurtunities for single guys to serve in churches. Let's see in the past 10 years I have, taught 3rd and then 4th grade Sunday School with my likewise single male roommate. I have taken care of toddlers. I currently teach in my K/1 grade Sunday School. And no, I'm not a teacher by trade but a DBA. I did about 3 years of tech booth. I've worked at a foster kids camp through church. There are tons of oppurtunities if you are willing to look for them.

And BDB #22: As one of those that got a real job right of college and supported myself, I'd have to disagree. My roommate mentioned above and I did similair work at different defense contractors. However, he got married and I have not yet. I have significantly more free time then he has. That is even with me doing tons of volunteer work, leading a Bible study, effectively being involved in 3 different churches volunteering in each. Still, I had more free time then him and had lots of time to watch lots more TV and play more video games than I probably should have.

[36. Jo said the following at 11:59 PM on Jan 6:]

36

Ted, #2:

He can define 'busyness' however he likes. Doesn't make his definition correct.

Why would Boundless even post this? Way to make singles feel even less welcome and more misunderstood.

[37. Jim said the following at 12:13 AM on Jan 7:]

37

Single or married, everyone claims to be "busy" these days, especially too busy to spend time with the Word.(often, "busyness" is just an excuse to avoid something else, whether good or bad). I think it is all about priorities and time management. I am guilty of this too, but i think EVERYONE, SHOULD NOT be TOO BUSY for anything ...

[38. Elizabeth H. (Russia) said the following at 3:19 AM on Jan 7:]

38

In a word: YES.

Touchy subject! There are times when I start to feel resentful because it feels like people always assume I'm "free" and can just move my schedule around since I don't have a family. But at the same time, I do have the right to say no, while a parent cannot suddenly say no to a part of child-rearing.

When you find yourself doing things hastily and without care, it may be a sign that there's too much on your plate. I hate feeling like I did a bad job preparing for Sunday school or something like that because of overcommitment.

It's possible to decline initially, but once you have committed to something, I find it hard as a single person to justify to other people my need to take a break.

[39. Kelly-1 said the following at 5:32 AM on Jan 7:]

39

Vanessa: "Married people can bow out of things saying they need "together" time or families can say that the kids' schedule won't permit it. Nobody gets offended and most people expect it. Single people don't have any excuse..."

You just described my life. As the ONLY unmarried sibling of 5, guess who's the one who always stays back to clean up after family events?

[40. MrsLarijani said the following at 6:02 AM on Jan 7:]

40

As other commenters have already said - it depends.

A friend of mine started grad school as a single woman with three part-time jobs (one of which was paying for her graduate work) and ended as a married woman with two part-time jobs. (The 3rd one she was in the midst of dropping when she started grad. school.)

How she managed to plan a wedding in the midst of all of that, I won't ever understand. I had one full-time job and had no time to devote attention to wedding planning until I put in my two weeks notice.

Neither my husband nor I were "lazy" as single people. We were/are involved in our church as much as we can be. So, neither one of us would have fallen under this Pastor's criticism for being "too busy to serve". We served and that is why we were so stinkin' busy.

I think, though, that unless this pastor is catching single men red-handed by the dozens playing Wii or PlayStation instead of figuring out what the church needs, then he should lay off.

I know that I saw a lot of males play video games during college, but that was a whole different ball game in my opinion. We were over-extended due to the nature of the college beast. All of us had different ways of unwinding from stress. And, really, they weren't playing every night. It was more like every other week on a Friday or Saturday night. It seemed like every night to me because it was something that I thought was "ridiculous".

Anyhow, unless he is attempting to personally disciple these men one-on-one and is being met with frustration day after day after day, I would suggest that he lay off the generalizations.

[41. Courtney P. said the following at 7:00 AM on Jan 7:]

41

I believe that Pastor is right in some aspects, but as an unmarried woman in college working part-time and most important to this post I live at home with my parents. In living as home with my parents I am unmarried not "single" my life is a part of my family’s life. In my home I have taken on many home responsibilities, I clean, make the meal plan, grocery shop (I am a coupon clipper so this takes a little more time), laundry for not just myself, assist my father in our family business, my father is an Elder in our church and we practice the ministry of hospitality. This is just the basically of what my life consist of not including the ministry outside my home. I believe that I am not as “busy” as a wife and mother, but I did do believe I am “busier” then the average 22 year old single man. My two cents.

[42. JennR said the following at 7:08 AM on Jan 7:]

42

RE: Post #22 - BDB

Please read the bio carefully before you criticize. It said he led "a small band of people" to plant a church. Not a musical group. Also, don't take him being a missionary to college students so lightly. That's a volatile time in most people's lives. Most college ministers I have met are, in fact, very "busy" being involved in the lives of others.

[43. Leigh said the following at 7:22 AM on Jan 7:]

43

Im single, I WELCOME busyness! ha ha ha

Leigh

[44. Dan Gill said the following at 7:28 AM on Jan 7:]

44

Here's an idea: Let's all decide what the definition of every word is for ourselves. That will really help us all communicate.

Busy is not synonymous with autonomous, despite what the pastor says.

[45. Suzanne said the following at 7:58 AM on Jan 7:]

45

My concern over this blog post is more about the purpose of it.

Whether or not the statement is true is of no consequence if there isn't purpose behind it. What was his purpose in telling people this? Was this edifying and uplifting? Or did this just cause the single people in his congregation feel more isolated and annoyed and left rolling their eyes in disgust. Just because it's permissible doesn't mean it's profitable.

[46. Ashley said the following at 8:03 AM on Jan 7:]

46

I'm not offended that the church sees singles as a rich resource to tap into.

I AM offended that we're seen as the ultimate SAKV ( http://stuffchristianslike.net/2009/04/526-the-swiss-army-knife-volunteer/ )
with no interests or value of our own to pursue.

When you're serving with all you've got in a small church, sailing on the good ship Gift Of Helps toward the Island of Burnout, it really REALLY doesn't help to be reminded that you're being called on because you don't have all that messy family responsibility to take care of. - Especially if that means getting pigeonholed into almost exclusively one-gendered or authoritative (think "leading a teen small group" or "Leading a small group of college freshmen") type ministry -- where you're even more likely to remain single.

[47. Trevor Dolby said the following at 8:07 AM on Jan 7:]

47

I fear Bob Thune may be wrong for the wrong reasons (there should be a Mastermind peg for that) in his analysis of the single life.

Most single people seem to be extremely busy, and so do most married people; so much so, in fact, that there's a lot less time to be spent on just being with others. Everybody has something they have to do, somewhere they must be, etc, and unplanned social events are quite rare.

It would be nice if he was right, really.

[48. Elisabeth said the following at 8:32 AM on Jan 7:]

48

I find this post to be challenging, and the author is speaking in love. From my perspective as a single woman with a professional career that also entails a demanding schedule at times, God has put on my heart what His priorites are for me. My time is precious to me, but I was obedient to the call to serve in an inner city youth ministry. God has really blessed me and this ministry has brought such joy into my life. How? Because it has brought me closer to Him. There are many challenges in ministry work, and a lot of it is dying to self. I’ve been blessed to work along side many passionate followers of Christ who believe Serving is a big priority in the Christian walk. Classes, bible studies, and church are also priorities, but being servant hearted is a big part of what God calls us to do in our walk.

God had put a verse from Mark 4 on my heart just yesterday...

Listen carefully to what I am saying—and be wary of the shrewd advice that tells you how to get ahead in the world on your own. Giving, not getting, is the way. Generosity begets generosity. Stinginess impoverishes.” Mark 4:24-25

[49. Anna said the following at 8:43 AM on Jan 7:]

49

It's seems like the point is being missed. Obviously, single people are busy. The difference is that the busyness is a choice we make. We can always drop out of graduate school or quit our job for another. However, you don't just opt out of parenting or marriage if you feel your life is too busy. I think the difference is not in whether we are busy or not but rather in whether we are able to make the choice to decrease our level of activity.

[50. Amir Larijani said the following at 8:43 AM on Jan 7:]

50

BDB: I'll take it one step further.

Show me a pastor who says, "If you're single, you aren't busy", and I will show you a man who is too stupid to be preaching.

Oh, and one need not be a grad student to be busy.

When I was an undergrad--majoring in aeronautical engineering--I worked 25 hours a week in addition to my studies.

As for seminary, I'd say the difficulty of that is overrated. If you are good at writing papers, it's not that hard. Compared to engineering, I thought the rigor of seminary was a joke. And I went to a fairly "tough" seminary.

The only thing difficult was the tedium, which can hurt you if you have to work long hours to put food on the table while doing studies.

[51. Logan Elaine said the following at 9:12 AM on Jan 7:]

51

I get what he's trying to say, however, a single person HAS to do the grocery shopping, HAS to do the laundry, HAS to do the cleaning, HAS to pay the bills, HAS to fix dinner... There is no one to share the load with.

Everyone is different. I am engaged and work full-time and go to seminary full time. I have married friends that go to school full time, have kids, and some work and some don't. They're each making a choice to fill their time with work, or not. *shrugs*

[52. Gina said the following at 9:13 AM on Jan 7:]

52

Just another salvo in the ongoing battle between single and married Christians. What else is new? Until both groups learn to respect each other and stop making snap judgments and blanket statements, it's never going to stop.

[53. Nathan F said the following at 9:23 AM on Jan 7:]

53

How is a commitment of your personal time to developing the skills necessary to heal people (studying to be a doctor) or to learn the skills necessary for any trade that can be used in the creation mandate or great commission ... or being deployed away from family and friends under the obligation to the military in order to serve that country and (ideally) engender a more stable world for all ... still considered autonomous?

The point is valid that busyness might be defined in terms of autonomy. But marriage is not the only way to loose autonomy. Actually, it seems as though by definin commitment exclusively in terms of relationships we are ignoring and mistaking a subset of a much larger and more encompasing category.

Actually, I think it's a little bit arrogant to think that "only married people have given up autonomy" which is basically the argument put forward in this blog. Certainly marriage is one way to give up autonomy, but (and this is from a single guy to Iraq at the moment ...) it's not the only one!

[54. Tami said the following at 9:28 AM on Jan 7:]

54

I agree that our entire lives offer opportunity to minister, and that no one should be guilted into anything at church.

Still, if we're part of a church, fellowshipping on a particular body of people on a regular basis, we should serve in some capacity. That doesn't mean that you *have* to be an usher or teach children's Sunday school or lead a women's group or (insert whatever it is someone is telling you you "should" do here). Nor does it mean that once you did something, you have to do it forever. But, I think contributing to your church -- however God leads you to do that -- is important. During certain times of your life, that may just mean pitching in whenever you have the opportunity. Because if everyone but the pastor and staff ministered *only* outside the church, and no one did the less "noticeable" (or unpaid) jobs, how would the church function?

(P.S., I do think churches should be involved in their communities -- so I'm definitely not saying that community work/ministry "doesn't count" as a form of service.)

[55. Kellie said the following at 9:28 AM on Jan 7:]

55

While I think the pastor makes a broad assumption, for me personally, as a parent I have a lot less free time than I did as a childless person (in truth, I was probably busier as a single person--in school, working, and making regular trips to spend time with my now-husband than as a childless married person). But now, I am hesitant to attend any event that would take my family out past 8pm, would interfere with my child's naptime, or generally just take time away that would be spent with my family.

[56. Joel said the following at 9:41 AM on Jan 7:]

56

I find it amazing how many comments on this blog are in agreement, and from several different angles. I would like to draw attention to Suzanne's comment on the original blog, the third one from the top. My problem is not with the idea that singles have more autonomy than marrieds, but with his attempt to redefine the word busy. She hits the nail on the head: "Language matters, and if you have to define your use of busy with another word (autonomy) for your argument to hold water, I’d submit you should just use autonomy, or the like, instead."

He flat out says in his blog "Instead, think of busyness as the amount of autonomy you have in the use of your time." Why should we do this? Is there some Old English meaning that has been lost? Is there a common Latin root that also means "lack of autonomy in the use of your time?" I welcome anyone to produce some evidence for that, but I think you'll have a very hard time finding it because that's not what "busy" means. In fact, I would argue that busy actually implies autonomy. You wouldn't consider a slave, someone who has no choice in the work they do, "busy." You might call them diligent or lazy, or hard working, but you wouldn't call them busy. If anything, being busy implies making a choice to be "engaged in action" or "full of activity" (from Merriam-Webster).

The problem with changing the meaning of words to bolster your argument or convey a truth is, as CS Lewis explains beautifully in Mere Christianity http://glenn.typepad.com/news/2003/08/cs_lewis_on_the.html, "It has every available quality except that of being useful."

I don't know if this blog was "damage control" as mentioned by #24, but if he really deleted comments that had already been posted and changed parts of a previous blog, it seems a little suspicious to me. (I'm still new to the "blogoshpere" though; is that common?) There's no call to "understand busyness" in a way that no one has ever understood it before just to make a point. He could have just as easily said "What I really meant was, if you're single, you're autonomous."

[57. Geoffrey said the following at 9:50 AM on Jan 7:]

57

Contra to the post above, the point of Thune’s blog post isn’t really about single guys being too “busy” to serve. Indeed, I think that part of the post detracts from the point Thune is actually trying to make, which is that our desire for “autonomy,” or “independence,” a desire that, quite frankly, is not only encouraged, but fundamental to our western way of life, is inherently a selfish, self-absorbed desire that needs to be extinguished. Thune suggests that a man “taking a wife” is one way – perhaps to him the most obvious way – to deal with our selfishness. Two points: First, the desire for autonomy or independence is not one that is exclusively felt by men. Indeed, in light of the liberation movements of the past 30+ years – and I use that term to mean a whole host of things, not just the feminist movement – I think it’s something that young women – Christian or not – desire much more than men – or, at least, they’re taught that they should desire it. Selfishness is a defining factor – arguably, the defining factor – of our sin condition. It’s universal. We all need to deal with it. Second, I’m not convinced that “taking a wife” is the best way to teach a man – or anyone, for that matter – how to kill selfishness. And, unless there is an acknowledgement and understanding of our selfishness prior to marriage, I think that marriage - given the nature of the commitment involved - can be counterproductive. Men – and women – need to start dealing with their selfishness long before entering into the marriage covenant.

[58. Mike Theemling said the following at 9:51 AM on Jan 7:]

58

TFA (#25) echoes my sentiment exactly.

Single or married, everyone for the most part controls what they want to do with their time. If someone wants to be an "absentee" parent they are well within their rights to do so (within reason of course as outright neglect can be criminal).

I won't say more because a lot of people have already summed up a lot of good points to which I agree with (and you can guess which side I take in this matter).

Even though I don't think it was his intention, it sounds like this pastor simply wanted to bring up the question with intentionally misleading verbage just to poke a hornets nest.

[59. April said the following at 10:05 AM on Jan 7:]

59

Seems that the attempt to redefine "busyness"--an already clearly defined word--was done as a means to push buttons. More autonomy, yes. Less busy, no, unless one chooses to waste the time they have. I've noticed that single people aren't the ones using their time logging endless posts on facebook about their baby's toilet training.

[60. Jo said the following at 10:17 AM on Jan 7:]

60

The issue with this article is not simply whether single people are or aren't as busy as married people, or even whether single people do or don't have more autonomy than married people.

The issue is what the statement implies. "If you're single you aren't busy, and therefore..."

Therefore you should be helping with this ministry, or therefore you should be serving more frequently, or therefore I'll call on you to do this because you have the free time...?

If anyone, married or single, is too busy to do whatever it is that God is calling them to do, then they are too busy. By all means, encourage people - all people - to serve in whatever ways they are able. By all means challenge people who seem not to be taking any active role in the church.

But don't assume that just because someone doesn't have a wife and kids, he's therefore obligated to participate in any ministry you want him to. Perhaps those things that the guy has 'chosen' with his 'autonomy' to fill his time with are things that God has led him to. Do you really want to make that guy feel guilty for not teaching Sunday School, when God has asked him to do something else instead? That's how you end up with burnt out Christians who do too much and never rest, because of responsibilities that people have put on them, not God.

[61. Brittany said the following at 10:18 AM on Jan 7:]

61

Wow, that's a lot of responses in a short time. I am glad that we got away from the virgin/non-virgin debate for a while!!!

A lot of people have made the point that single people are not obligated to do things but can choose to do or not do things whereas a married person MUST do things for the sake of others (their family).

I just wanted to make the point that married people can choose to damage relationships just like single people can. I think that the best way to demonstrate Christ's love is through deep, loving relationships and those things take time. In a way, I am obligated to my friends to show them love and spend time on them/with them. Also, other obligations such as school, health (going to the gym), chores, etc. are not things that SHOULD be neglected by persons single or married. We should all be obligated to others as Christians and obligated to ourselves to take care of ourselves.

I also live at home so I don't have much of a choice to do what I want as I am obligated to my family as well as my church. If I skip out on those things, it would be like a husband blowing off his wife and kids to play foosball with 'the guys'. Permissible but not beneficial!!!

[62. Charles said the following at 10:24 AM on Jan 7:]

62

I'm a single Christian man; previously married, my ex left for another believer. I'm contemplating becoming a nurse practitioner... It would be a cut in pay for me in my profession if I served in that capacity, but give me more opportunities to serve as a medical professional on mission trips, and in a larger capacity than I can presently as an RN. I'm going to be very busy if pursue this, very very busy. This dingleberry pastor, though, will never see the "healing of the sick" that I will see.

[63. -WL- said the following at 10:38 AM on Jan 7:]

63

Louise (#7) .. the quote mentions parenting: "And when you have kids, things really change." as in - he wasn't speaking to parents (single or otherwise). I believe the context is unmarried / no children singles.

I understand the article - it seems that a lot of commenters didn't read the whole post :) (in terms of how busyness is defined). It IS true as a single you can define how your time is used. If you are "too busy" as a single, you have the capacity to change that without affecting someone else (spouse/children).

[64. Tami said the following at 10:49 AM on Jan 7:]

64

Thanks for your points Jo (60) -- I agree.

Rather than intentionally being provocative (and probably knowing he was going to tick people off with his statement), here are some things I think he *could* have talked about that would have been more productive and less divisive:

1. Kingdom priorities (he mentions this in the blog, but makes it sound as though the *only* time you see these are in family life or whatever he defines as church service -- because you can spend 24/7 at church "busy" with someone *else's* priorities rather than God's)
2. Time management
3. The benefits of marriage
4. Intentionality
5. Accountability
6. Spiritual gifts (and how and when to use them)
7. Service
8. What it means to be part of the church (a participant rather than a mere attender)
9. Traits that lead to godliness
10. Selfishness
11. The importance of discipleship

Hmm... In other words, he should have directed them to Boundless ;)

Seriously, though it's beneficial to challenge people out of their apathy, I think it's better to do that using God's Word, rather than crafting our own provocative statements.

As a grad student, I would react MUCH better to "Are you doing your work to the glory of God and His kingdom?" rather than "You're just making up that you're 'busy.' Let me tell you about busy..."

[65. Amir Larijani said the following at 11:23 AM on Jan 7:]

65

WL writes:

I understand the article - it seems that a lot of commenters didn't read the whole post :) (in terms of how busyness is defined). It IS true as a single you can define how your time is used. If you are "too busy" as a single, you have the capacity to change that without affecting someone else (spouse/children).

Or maybe we DID read the post, and

(a) we reject his attempts to cover his tracks by defining "busyness" on his own terms;

(b) we reject his attempts to elevate procreation to the level of spiritual gift, as he is dismissive of singles who are involved in various levels of work in the Body. I would challenge that pastor to compare his words against the life and preaching of Paul;

(c) Having read his comments, we conclude that his attempt to frame the argument by narrowing the scope of the meaning of "busyness", is little more than a pretext to (1) browbeat singles and (2) elevate married folks.

Marriage CAN be sanctifying, but it is not GUARANTEED to be. Ditto for parenthood.

Fact is, the husband (wife) can do everything right, and still find himself (herself) divorced.

This is because autonomy doesn't always go away in a marriage, even though we are called to sacrifice that as we marry.

Oh, and a lack of autonomy for the married person does not guarantee that such a one is busy toward the advancement of the Kingdom, any more than the autonomy of the single guarantees that the single person is hard at work toward the advancement of the Kingdom.

[66. Tami said the following at 11:29 AM on Jan 7:]

66

For those of you who say some people didn't read the whole thing, and are implying that we don't "get it" or our disagreement is unfounded --

I contend that many of us *did* read the whole thing -- and we're not disagreeing that unmarried people have more independence, we're disagreeing with the *way* the blog post is written (redefining "busyness" to suit the author's point), and/or the fact that though we're unmarried, we *are* responsible to others -- especially God -- for our time, and that we don't all lead our lives in a manner that is unaccountable to, or uninfluenced by, other authority, and thus the statement is way too broad.

[67. JuliaH said the following at 11:36 AM on Jan 7:]

67

"Ministering" does not necessarily have to take place in a church setting. Getting overly involved with "volunteer" (read: guilt-tripped obligations) work in a church can completely hamper the ministry God may have actually called a person to. Also, even Jesus took time out to retreat and recharge. It is no sin to have some time in your schedule to relax. Singles should not be expected to be at the beck and call of every church group that needs someone to do the work that no-one else wants to. It is ok to say no sometimes.

This book was very helpful to me and by the sounds of it, could be really helpful to lots of the people posting here. http://www.amazon.ca/Boundaries-When-Take-Control-Your/dp/0310209749/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1262889363&sr=1-5

[68. Melissa S. said the following at 11:46 AM on Jan 7:]

68

I get the main point of what the pastor is trying to say. You should have a long-term pattern of service and if your lifestyle is consistently too busy to serve then you should rethink your priorities.

But as for making this a single vs. married with kids thing...it's ridiculous. It's a concept that should be addressed to everyone, regardless of their amount of relationships.

Also, behind all this, I believe, may be the unspoken idea that service is more legitimate when it is in the context of the church building. I know a lot of people in professions that prevent them from having much of a steady commitment at church besides attending services and signing up for things and saying "I'll be there when I can.". Their ministry is through their job and their family and they are legitimately "too busy" or "not autonomous enough" to have much volunteer time at all, married with kids or single. But their professions are truly their calling and it would be crazy for them to free up their time so they could "serve" more.

Here is another thought: There is also a matter of maturity and not realizing things about your life until you look back. For example, if you're single, you might be completely maxed out with commitments and think you couldn't handle more. Then you get married, have a baby, and realize you had more free time than you thought and think you a truly busy now. Then you have another baby and realize that you had more free time than you thought, etc, etc. It's more than just expecting singles to carve out more time from somewhere. Sometimes it's a simple matter of not being mature enough to handle more busyness or a certain kind of busyness. Maybe when God stretches you with kids you learn how to use time better and look back at your single years and think you could have done more when, in fact, you couldn't because you hadn't learned yet and wouldn't have learned until you got stretched with kids or something else. I've sure learned that in my own life, and I've also learned that it is okay to have some free time that isn't scheduled to the max with commitments (although you couldn't really tell from the next four months I've got).

Although I agreed with the blog post's call to serve, it was extremely irritating for many reasons. I haven't been that irritated over a blog post in a long time. I do official service in several different areas so it's not that I'm taking it personally because I feel guilty...and I've seen married people with kids and babies my entire life, besides being the oldest of eight, so I have at least a little insight there, too. :)

[69. Gina said the following at 12:03 PM on Jan 7:]

69

Well said, Melissa.

[70. IMO said the following at 12:09 PM on Jan 7:]

70

#64 I agree with you and Jo...

That first statement he made [“If you’re single, you aren’t busy.”] was provocative and the excuse that it was a "mild hyperbole for the sake of making a point" does not hold water for me. I think the reason it seems like some people haven't read or fully tried to understand what the pastor is saying is because they are seeing red.

The pastor's point could have been articulated better.

[71. James said the following at 12:11 PM on Jan 7:]

71

#34

The implication of Jesus and Paul being single is that one doesn't need to be married to be close to God (or become sanctified in the case of Paul).

Although I think marriage is a good thing and that there are a lot of bad reasons people put off marriage nowadays, the ultimate goal isn't marriage. The goal is Christ.

Plenty of Christians get married and don't die to themselves. Why do you think half of them get divorced in this country?

[72. Lynn said the following at 12:12 PM on Jan 7:]

72

Suzanne, post #45 - my thoughts exactly.

[73. Lorie said the following at 12:18 PM on Jan 7:]

73

Sometimes people feel pressured into serving when they don't really want to, but a lot of the time people do what they want to do. Your actions tend to reflect your priorities. If people serve in the Church it should be because they want to, not because they have a ton of "free time" that needs filling. If your heart is not in it, what is the point? Whether you are married or single, what are some ways that you enjoy to serve the Church? Maybe some new ideas are in order--get some inspiration flowing :) I am single myself and like it when there are areas to serve that will make use of my gifts. That way, I don't feel obligated into service--it becomes something that gives me and others joy.

[74. Hunter W said the following at 12:21 PM on Jan 7:]

74

I don't think this pastor has a clue about the essential and basic Kingdom principles of the Bible. Not only is my time not my own but neither is my life. There was a time not too long ago where I was working 50+ hours a week for a job, another 10+ hours a week running a second business/outreach group, 5+ hours a week leading a Bible study, 10+ hours a week spending time with non-believers, as we're commanded to do... The list goes on.

My life and schedule was not my own but belonged to Christ. I merely followed orders.

[75. khalil said the following at 1:04 PM on Jan 7:]

75

Amir (#65):
You are my hero, you know that, right? Between being busy (work is ministry, ministry is work) and being sick I can't always respond to posts like this...but when one is posted I can count on you for a well-thought and solid response.

[76. BDB said the following at 1:48 PM on Jan 7:]

76

JennR (#42) wrote:

>>It said he led "a small band of people" to plant a church. Not a musical group.<<

I did read it carefully. I didn't say anything about the church planting. I noticed that before the church planting, his primary activity listed was the band. So, yes, I'm interpreting that to mean he was one of those slacker band dudes in college. Maybe I'm wrong, but there's nothing else listed.

>> Also, don't take him being a missionary to college students so lightly.<<

I worked for the Chaplains office in college, and worked directly with the staff of the various ministries to college students. They seemed to have a lot of free time, and much of their "ministry" activities consisted of planning social events for college students, that would then be used as outreach opportunities to bring people into discipleship Bible studies.

While this is important work, it's definitely not on the same level of time constraint as a real 50-hour-week job with specific times. Those 50 hours may come in a 5-day week, or they may come on call.

I admit that I've noticed a correlation between serving and people who insist on putting themselves first. Specifically I noticed that women who don't volunteer anywhere also insist on putting their needs first all the time - to the detriment of their relationships with co-workers and others.

So, when women like that marry the dude from the band, I'm not at all surprised that the transition to marriage is traumatic.

[77. BDB said the following at 1:52 PM on Jan 7:]

77

Anna (#49) wrote:

>>However, you don't just opt out of parenting or marriage if you feel your life is too busy.<<

Unfortunately, people do exactly that all the time. It's called divorce.

[78. Dave said the following at 2:02 PM on Jan 7:]

78

Re: #56: Joel

If you want to confirm that, try posting a comment to his blog, critical of his position. It probably won't appear, or if it does appear it'll probably be deleted after a while - at least that's been my experience. The only exception to that is if the comment doesn't entirely disagree with Thune's argument - of the 3 or 4 comments that I've posted on his blog only one of them remains (Dave on 2 January 2010 at 5:54 pm).

Before the comments were deleted (all of them... not just in the ones in favour of or opposed to his position), there was another comment posted by a friend of Thune's suggesting that Thune was being incredibly generous in responding to any commenters on his blog that he didn't know in real life. Frankly, his post, his friend's post, and the way replies have disappeared from the blog, strongly suggests a lack of humility (and, I might say, a dictionary) on Thune's part.

[79. BDB said the following at 2:31 PM on Jan 7:]

79

His blog post seems obliquely covering material simlar to 1 Corinthians 7:32-34:

32 But I want you to be without care. He who is unmarried cares for the things of the Lord—how he may please the Lord. 33 But he who is married cares about the things of the world—how he may please his wife. 34 There is[a] a difference between a wife and a virgin. The unmarried woman cares about the things of the Lord, that she may be holy both in body and in spirit. But she who is married cares about the things of the world—how she may please her husband.

This does in fact suggest that unmarried people may have more time for Kingdom-building. Of course, Paul is DISCOURAGING marriage because married people become so focused on themselves and worldly things instead of God. One could just as easily write a blog post about how those who are married with children are engaging in worldly conduct that is less honorable than single people who are building the Kingdom.

[80. Zusanne said the following at 3:32 PM on Jan 7:]

80

This pastor is guilty of committing the error we're told to avoid since English 101 and Speech 101: while you want to begin a speech or written piece with a provacative statement to gain your audience's attention, you need to make sure that you don't offend them right off the bat.

Even with all the backpedaling and qualifiying, this pastor has touched a sore spot with many single people who are already very busy. I'm sure that some of his audience spent the rest of the time he was speaking fuming about the introductory sentence. I'm sure I would have had a difficult time getting past the initial crassness (okay, and then I would have been trying to figure out how he was trying to define "hyperbole." He's playing rather fast and loose with that use of the word).

I've observed that most of the time this attitude comes from people who married younger--who have had their entire adult lives to "divide and conquer" their tasks. Those of us who are single understand that we still must maintain a household and manage our money. It's all up to us, not a team effort. Those who have never had to live as a self-sustaining adult really have no comprehension.

I attended graudate school and now work with mostly married men. I was the only one who typed my own papers; the married men either had their wives type their papers or paid someone to do it. My co-workers have the "magic closets" into which their clean/pressed clothing appears; they have the "magic tables" on which food--already prepared--appears and then goes away, packed neatly into containers for the next day's lunch.

In the past I've taken on significant work responsibilities--unpaid--so that my married co-workers can either take on the extra paid work or go home to their families (which, really, after a full day of work, is where they should be, I'm not arguing with that point). About three years ago I decided the world wouldn't come to an end if I decided to back off for a while. Most of the things I've given up have gone to other unmarried people, but a few of the married ones have stepped up and taken on some of the tasks. (One example: I had spent five years in a ministry in which I was "filling in" until we could get a man to do the work; I had agreed even though I'm not really good at what I was supposed to do, but I decided someone else could have a turn. Three years later, they have a married man. And, I'm not bitter, I'm just saying, the men get compensated for this position; the women don't).

Overall, I think that it all depends on how different people are put together. This is one of the lessons the Lord had to beat into me; different people have different threshholds for what they're capable of managing. One of my friends has chosen to take time off his ministry because it's too hard for him to be where he needs to be consistently and on time--because he has two kids. Perfectly understandable. His replacement? Another man with two kids. Same ages. I have a very good friend who, as a full-time employee and a mother of several children, still has time to volunteer in community and serve in her church. In contrast, I know a stay-at-home mom with two children who can't seem to find the time to attend church more than Sunday morning; even volunteering in the nursery is something she won't consider.

I'm having a hard time finding the right word to express what I'm trying to say. It's not stress management or time management--it's management in general. Some people are happiest and most productive when they're juggling fifteen tasks at a time; some people function best when a task is complete before they move on to the next. Throw in the challenges of life--whether single or married--different people manage differently. Those busy married people were (would have been) busy single people; those who are busy single people will probably still be busy when they're married. And the opposite is true.

[81. Ted Slater said the following at 3:43 PM on Jan 7:]

81

Dave (#78) -- at first I read your comment as saying that *we* didn't publish your comments. Then I re-read what you said, and I saw that some of your comments on Pastor Thune's blog were not published.

FWIW, we have published every comment submitted in this discussion, whether favorable or not. :-)

I found this comment, by Bob Thune on his blog, to be somewhat helpful:

"I ask all commenters please not to turn this into a single vs. married debate. Remember: the statement 'If you’re single, you’re not busy,' was 'a form of mild hyperbole for the sake of making a point' -- the point being what Patrick and Micah have already said. Singleness has a level of autonomy attached to it that marriage does not."

That said, I think Bob's clinging to the term "busyness" is unhelpful. There's probably a more accurate term -- maybe "autonomy" -- to describe the point he's trying to make, as some have pointed out here.

[82. B Harrison - Stanwood, WA said the following at 3:44 PM on Jan 7:]

82

As a single person myself can I say, if we are all SO BUSY, how do we have time to post multiple replies, and long replies to this post by a Pastor who is just trying to bring it to our attention that we can see being single as a gift, a gift to use our time the way God would want us to, maybe he is calling you to go to Grad School, or work to pay off bills, or go on a missions trip. I think this post was just a call to take a look at how we use our time, since we don't have a family to devote ourself to, and to look around and see where we can serve. I know that I find a lot more contetment and saftisfaction in my single life when I am serving and involved in my local church.

This is not to discount any bad advice that may have been give to anyone, because we all know we do get bad advice.

But seriously if we all have time to reply to this post, then we have time to serve, or encourage, or bless someone else and I say this even to myself.

[83. jayme said the following at 3:48 PM on Jan 7:]

83

Wow...some of you are really mean on this pastor.
He really does have a heart for singles. He does. He has a church full of them - he pastors a very young church (in terms of ages of members) - lots of singles and young marrieds.

It's one thing to attack his position - it's another thing to call him names.

But it would seem that he's struck a nerve.

Maybe it would help if you knew his ministry philosophy more - see his heart. He believes in the church - that ministry should happen through the church (he's kind of anti-para-church unless directly accountable to a church). He believes the body should be active in reaching people. In planting churches. In being intentional about time and activities. He really does care about people. Maybe he said some things wrong, but geesh...

[84. Jennifer said the following at 3:54 PM on Jan 7:]

84

First, I have noticed that single men do not volunteer in large numbers (or any numbers!) at my large church. I typically volunteer alongside families, who are making time to serve.

Second, guys looking to "take a wife" should check out MarryWell.org.

[85. Dave said the following at 4:02 PM on Jan 7:]

85

Re: Ted (#81):

I'm not always in agreement with the Boundless team's opinions, but I can't say that you've filtered out opposing views in replies (as I would say for Thune's blog).

(I still haven't figured out why sometimes in the past I've gotten error messages on the Boundless blog when attempting to submit comments ... but that seems more like a technical issue than an ideological one)

[86. BDB said the following at 4:30 PM on Jan 7:]

86

#82 - because the married people are over in the married people's forum posting stuff...or they are on facebook posting little stories about what their kids are doing today that's amusing...

[87. MC said the following at 5:17 PM on Jan 7:]

87

Married or single, we are all accountable for our time to One and One alone. I know the frustration of getting the "I'm too busy." excuse and then find out the people feeding me the line found time to hang out with friends.

There is an urgency in the kingdom I understand, but I also know God has not impressed on others yet. So I serve and work with all I have and pray for others join. I also know I do not have the capacity to serve at the pace of some of my friends. So I will not refuse to do that which I can, but I also take seriously God's command to rest.

I think we get Pastor Thune's intent. And it takes more courage and strength to shepherd a chuch body than I could fathom. Were his choice of words misguided? A little. But how about some grace all around and love one another as we would want to love us. With a willingness to understand and humility.

[88. RLynn said the following at 5:37 PM on Jan 7:]

88

The good pastor may have meant well by his post, but he has only added to the feeling that singles often feel stigmatized in church, even if that wasn't his intention. Lots has already been said that single folks do have things they HAVE to do: shop, cook, clean, etc.--without the assistance of a spouse. I am concerned about his thought that we are completely responsible for our own time--first of all, singles have to work, too, and work commitments can be substantial. Also, most singles are members of extended families/close networks of friends and sacrifice (just like married people do) their free time to meet obligations and/or support friends and family. I know plenty of singles who babysit (for free) so married people can have time together, take care sick/dying parents and grandparents, siblings, take those who are disabled shopping or to appointments BASED not on their own schedules, but those they are serving. Today, I spent 8 hours in a hospital waiting room waiting for my (single) sister to come out of surgery--it went longer than planned, so I had to call out of work and cancel participation in a Bible study I was supposed to help lead. Lots of single people alter their schedules to serve others and their church--just like married people.

[89. Jim said the following at 5:50 PM on Jan 7:]

89

The pastor Bob ended his last post with this paragraph ......."For those who feel compelled to defend their level of busyness, it’s worth asking: are you finding righteousness in being busy? Micah’s point is well taken. In our culture “being busy” is the source of much worth, value, and identity. If the contention that “you are not as busy as you think” causes you immediately to defend how busy you ARE, it’s worth asking the question what righteousness you are deriving from your busyness."

I would ask Pastor Bob the same question as a married man. What righteousness are you deriving from your 'busyness' or loss of total 'autonomy' that you would need to look down your nose at singles?

[90. Paul P said the following at 7:34 PM on Jan 7:]

90

Right ON!! Considering, perhaps, I have a little too much experience with this, I feel I can speak loudly, and passionately on it!

A cultural view of busyness is understandable, but I'm seeing more and more, it is not how God sees us men. He made us for a purpose, and it's partly for breadwinning, BUT the tendency is to lose sight of WHY we are pursuing career/education and, at the risk of stomping on some toes: recreation. Don't get me wrong when I say that, those things are not inherently evil or something, but when you lose sight of the why for things, you tend to lean towards breaking the first commandment, and these things can easily turn into idols.

I am speaking to myself, because of being single at 37. And if that wasn't bad enough, unemployed for a year now! Talk about time on someone's hands, and no real positive direction to use it well! This has been my biggest personal concern since I found out I was out of work, but I do hope I've done well with it.

I am totally onboard about the dying to self point as well! I NEED it, badly, I feel, in order to fully become who I was made to be. And I do feel it's suppose to happen through marriage and family. God in His infinate wisdom, has seen fit to allow me to be where I am, but I do see, and desire to be all I can be (made to be really), as a military branch says it!

So let this post reform your thinking on WHY God has us doing 'things', and what His ultimate purpose for us actually IS. That is Biblical thinking, in my book, because it's God's view, not ours!

[91. Paul P said the following at 7:43 PM on Jan 7:]

91

A comment about all the grad school men posting:

Grad school, or any post high school schooling is, by reality, a personal CHOICE you made in the first place, and is NOT required for life. Yes, it's good to have, yes it can be valuable etc.. but to marry, earn a living, have a family, and support them.. it is NOT required.. for generations men have done with less then even 12 years of schooling, and if your a student of history, some very impactful and noteable men have had less then 3 years of formal schooling (Abraham Lincoln anyone??).. so consider that when you think all these external commitments are pulling at you in grad school, or as an under grad: you chose it, and by making that choice you consented to some of those things. The point of automony is NOT nullified by a choice you made a couple of years ago. The writer is still right on, even in your situation. You've just lost sight of the reality of it, which is the author's whole point!

[92. Bex said the following at 8:27 PM on Jan 7:]

92

Whilst I understand that being a parent or caretaker means you have to die to yourself and that your world now revolves around another human beings needs and desires, being single has nothing to do with it. I am single, own my own business, am involved in politics, am helping raise a teenager, and am a firefighter/emt. I don't pick or choose when I sleep or eat. Tonight I didn't eat supper till 2200, and last night I didn't get sleep, because others were having medical emergencies.
The counterpoint of course is one can be married and decide not to participate in the in their relationship (thus killing it) or be a parent only in the physical sense of the relationship.
Yes, I agree that some of my activities, I am more dedicated to because I am single, but I refuse to be a bump on a log just because I am not married. I am here for a purpose and if I don't participate in this one life God has given me, then I have wasted the gift I was given. I do want to be married to share this journey with, but I won't stop living whilst I am still looking for my husband.

[93. Kathleen said the following at 9:51 PM on Jan 7:]

93

Anna writes: Obviously, single people are busy. The difference is that the busyness is a choice we make."

Having children is a choice too.
If the pastor is complaining about his lack of free time, he can always learn to manage his time better. If he's not willing to do that, he probably should have thought this out a little better *before* he decided to have kids.

[94. Noah Kephart said the following at 11:49 PM on Jan 7:]

94

I think that the point that this Pastor was trying to convey has been mis-interpreted a skosh. I would argue that a young single guy has a quality amount of time more available to him than that of a married man. Yes, we add work, travel, school, church and whatever else we have, but we still have much more time than a married man. When a man says I do he is sharing the 168 hours that he has in a week with another person. This Pastor is coming from the perspective that it is the single guys that feel that they can't help in the ministry of the church because they are too "busy". If I sat down and calculated the amount of time I waste doing unproductive things then I would have alot of free time, and that is aside from work, seminary, church and basketball. So...before we find ourselves on the edge of our seat just waiting to jump on this Pastor's back let us analyze the amount of time that we really have. I think that amount of time will shock many of us, and hopefully spur us on to redeem the time and become more involved and more profitable. "When criticism surfaces we need to learn to move toward it." This man criticizes our single lives. Let's move toward that. Let's see what he has to say.

[95. Heather said the following at 11:58 PM on Jan 7:]

95

Wow! I completely disagree with this pastor. This is a case of the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence. Maybe he has his own issues and feels like he is trapped in his life and sees us as free to do what we want. That is not the case. Like someone already said, there is only one of us, and people depend on us just because we are single and we don't have a family to "tie us down." We are expected to do more in the church as in teaching the youth or the kids, etc, yet churches are dwindling in their single's groups. My church just took my group and lumped us with the 18-23 group. It's also harder to get time with my single friends because we have to schedule so far in advance due to our schedules. Even if we do have more autonomy, we are missing everything that comes along with the family. The love, the kisses goodnight from children who think the world of you, the chance to hold your baby in your own arms and to get your own babysitter instead of being the babysitter. I would give up everything to play peek-a-boo with my own child. Maybe I can make the choice of when to sleep or not, or what to eat or not, who cares. I can't chose to have a baby to give that up for. The pastor made his choice when he married his wife and when they chose to have a child. Maybe some of us want to be busier with something that counts more.

[96. Tehilah said the following at 12:06 AM on Jan 8:]

96

I don't find arguing about who is "busy-er" really fruitful to the Body, because it automatically puts us in a position of judging. We don't know what opportunities for witnessing, helping, and praying the quiet, non-busy people are doing in the Body. God is the one that prepares the good works for us to do, not man.
This whole emphasis on busyness is a vortex that I find myself too often caught up in, only to extricate myself and find that all that "work" was as productive as treading water.
It's not how busy we are, it's how obedient we are to God's call on our daily life.

[97. Jo said the following at 12:21 AM on Jan 8:]

97

Paul P, #91:
"Grad school, or any post high school schooling is, by reality, a personal CHOICE you made in the first place, and is NOT required for life...... The point of automony is NOT nullified by a choice you made a couple of years ago."

In that case, a person's autonomy is also not negated by their choice to get married or their choice to have children. They chose to take on the extra responsbilities and commitments of those things, just as a person in grad school did. They're all good things to do, and they're all choices. They all limit autonomy after committing to them. No one is in a unique position here.

[98. Kelly-1 said the following at 3:20 AM on Jan 8:]

98

So... is reading and commenting on Boundless a waste of our time, or is it supplementing our Christian growth?

I can see arguments for both. ;)

[99. Leah said the following at 4:29 AM on Jan 8:]

99

BDB, responding to your comment #5: despite your correct analysis of a graduate student's workload, he still has his choices. Aside from his set classes, he can choose *when* to study. Does he study now, from 8 til 11am then attend class, or does he stay up late and study from 10pm to 2am? Two good examples are my mother and her brother. Mum did a teaching degree. She said she always studied better at night time. So she would sleep from 8 til about 10pm, then wake up and study through til about 2 or 3am, then go back to bed. Her brother would study through the night, have breakfast BEFORE going to bed (at like 4am) so when he woke up fifteen minutes before class he didn't need to eat breakfast then and could run to class. Don't say a parent could rearrange their schedule like that.

The single person still has much, much more flexibility and control over what he does and when.

Keeping that in mind, and responding to Andrea-Elena's comment: it's what single people do with that autonomy that makes them busy or not. The OP is not merely discussing autonomy. Autonomy gives single people the ability to control their busyness (to a certain degree) that married people, especially parents, do not always have.

Honestly, I'm pretty disgusted by a lot of the comments on here.

Heather (95) - while I'm married, I really don't have an awful lot of committments (I have work - normally 2 days a week - housework, involved in mainly 2 ministries at church, teach a few Religious Education lessons for at a local school), and I consider that really, I have a reasonable amount of flexibility with my time. I'm at the age where most of my friends are still single (although several of us are married). I see their lives - even if they're working and involved in church ministries - and they have a lot more freedom with their time than the parents I know. Your suggestion that you're just as busy because people "depend on you" because you're not tied down to a family is, quite honestly, ridiculous. You and I are in a position to say no. You and I are in a position to pick and choose what we say yes to. Someone with a 5 year old, 2 year old and six month old is not. They're parenting 24 hours a day 7 days a week no matter what. It's not like life says to them "oh, could you take Sally to school next week, take Josh to playgroup and make dinner for the family while dealing with Jack who has colic please?" and they have the option to say "sorry, I'm already doing X". Whereas if someone said to me, or you, "Could you help out at the church creche next week?" we can say "Sorry, I've already told Sue that I'm going to meet up with her that morning" or "sorry, I have an exam that afternoon that I have to study for".

It also depends why you're saying "sorry". I know certain university students who are youthgroup leaders with me, who sometimes say "sorry, I won't be able to make it on Friday night because I have to study for an exam on Saturday". Frankly, that excuse does not cut it. What is worse is when they say this during Study Vacation (the week off before exams) - the university specifically gives them the week off for the express reason of studying, but for some reason they have to do it on Friday night when they have a church committment? (And these are students who either do not have jobs, or only a few hours a week).

I think students need to realise there is such thing as studying 'too much' as well. Really, in the long run it doesn't matter if you get all High Distinctions or if you average a Credit. You'll still end up with the degree. A vast majority of employers don't care what grades you got at uni, just that you end up with the degree.

I can choose whether I go to bed at 8pm or midnight. A mother with a 2 month old will take sleep whenever she gets it! I can choose what day to do my groceries. A parent who has to take Jim to soccer & Lucy to piano lessons on Monday and Julia to ballet on Wednesday and all 3 kids to youthgroup on Friday has more limited options. I only have to do one load of laundry every two or three days (that's for two people). I know my mother usually does at least one load a day. Sometimes she'll let it go a bit longer and then she'll have to do two or three loads in a day. (When I lived at home, she had 6 people to wash for).

Marrieds, especially parents, have a whole lot of responsibilities thrown at them that they can't rearrange, say yes or no to. Most of a single's responsibilities can be rearranged or said no/yes to. Elizabeth H (Russia)'s comment understood this perfectly.

Yes you're missing things that parents have. The OP pastor is not saying you're not. He's discussing one little part about being single - the autonomy and freedom to be flexible that you have. He's not saying that makes your life better than that of a parent. It's not a "grass is greener" issue because he's not acting as if your life is so much better than his. He's discussing one aspect of life as a single as opposed to life as a married/parent.

I also noticed several single commenters feeling the need to defend perfectly legitimate "busyness". If your busyness stems from the way you are serving your church, that's great! That's fine! There's no need to defend that! But it's when you claim you can't serve because you're so busy that the question mark pops up. Don't let defensiveness get in the way of properly reading the article. Don't automatically think that just coz you're single, the OP must be talking about you. He's talking about singles who claim "too busy" when they're not (especially compared to people with kids).

IMO (70) is spot on. I think many commenters allowed that hyperbolic comment - “If you’re single, you aren’t busy" - to colour their view of the entire article, disregarding the fact that the author immediately goes on to give a very good explanation that basically said "ok, well obviously that isn't totally true, but here is my point..."

And yes of course you have responsibilities. Of course you have to do groceries, laundry, and cleaning. The OP is not saying you have NO responsibilities. Just far fewer than my hypothetical aforementioned mother.

April - 59 - you have to be kidding if you honestly think the majority of people wasting time on Facebook are not singles.

When it comes down to it, the OP was saying that due to a single's autonomy, he/she is in more position to control their busyness than a married/parent is.

[100. Paul said the following at 5:52 AM on Jan 8:]

100

Ted (#81),

"I think Bob's clinging to the term "busyness" is unhelpful. There's probably a more accurate term -- maybe "autonomy" -- to describe the point he's trying to make, as some have pointed out here.

I think there's a subtlety there that is entirely dependent on his (mis)use of the word "busyness". His point seems to go further than "if you're single you have more autonomy" to "you're not busy if you're doing something that you've chosen to do".

Bob does make a very valid point about the ability of an individual to make selfish choices. He then goes on to say "marriage kills selfishness", which would be worth discussing further. I can't speak from experience, but I suspect a selfish single would be inclined to form a self-interested couple and raise an inward-looking family.

I would argue that a better point would be that people at any stage of life should be careful to devote both their independence and their relationships to the service of God's will.

[1. BDB said the following at 3:09 PM on Jan 6:]

1

Show me a pastor who thinks single guys attending grad school aren't busy and I'll show you a pastor who went to a really easy seminary.

[2. Ted Slater said the following at 3:17 PM on Jan 6:]

2

BDB et al. -- please note how this pastor is defining "busyness."

[3. Jeremiah said the following at 3:22 PM on Jan 6:]

3

I agree with Pastor Thune’s description of autonomy. As a single man, I have a certain amount of time where I am contractually committed to work (for my employer) during the week. However, the vast majority of the rest of my time is extremely flexible – Do I work extra hours? Do I go to the gym? Do I clean my house? Do I go to bible study? The choices are wide open. I would trade every minute of that for a wife and kids, though… It makes my irritated when pastors keep advocating “just take a wife” as if it were simple. Really? Where? How? What if I don’t like the choices that are available?

[4. Andrea-Elena said the following at 3:27 PM on Jan 6:]

4

I get the pastor's definition. I think he's got the wrong signifier for what he's wanting to signify. He's not talking about busyness. He's talking about autonomy.

[5. BDB said the following at 3:34 PM on Jan 6:]

5

The OP wrote:

>>When you are single, you are in control of your schedule. You have complete freedom to decide what to devote your time to. The decision of when to study, when to sleep, when to eat, is yours and yours alone.<<

This statement is false.

Particularly for those who are working full time while attending graduate school. Figure about 40-50 hours per week of work, plus time for commuting, and 60 hours are spoken for right off the bat. Subtract another 8 hours for grad school classes. Then subtract the times the library is not open during non-work hours and it constrains when you can do your research. And, if you have to be to work at a certain time, it constrains when you can sleep. The result is a few hours here and there that are crammed with reading, writing, and/or coordinating schedules with other team members. Oh, and depending on the professor, they may have mid-course deadlines for projects that constrain when things are due. It is unfortunate when professors of working students demand weekly assignments, as it may not be possible to carve out enough time each week. Classes with one big paper and a final due at the end of the semester are much easier to manage.

I'd say that the time management challenges involved in fitting in graduate school around a work schedule are similar to the challenges in fitting in operational tasks around a toddlers schedule - using naps and after bedtime to get things done. It means being in a near constant state of sleep deprivation and always tired when working on a project.

Though I found time to volunteer while I was in grad school.

[6. Rebekah in SoCal said the following at 3:35 PM on Jan 6:]

6

As a single woman, I definately agree with Pastor THune's point about autonomy.

I am in a Bible study with woman of various life stages. The mothers with younger children, have a v. limited amount of time to spend on their study. Many have remarked that if isn't done by 530 or 6 AM, it will not happen that day.

[7. Louise from Chicago said the following at 3:42 PM on Jan 6:]

7

No it is not "impossible to be single and too busy."

What about single parents?

And I would hesitate to label anything as "impossible."

[8. JVR from Denver said the following at 3:48 PM on Jan 6:]

8

If that's what Thune meant, he should have just said that single men are independent.

This explanation reads a bit like damage control to me.

[9. obewan said the following at 3:53 PM on Jan 6:]

9

Don't forget, married people have a spouse to help with groceries, cooking, cleaning, and laundry.

I heard the same thing from my pastor when I was in grad school. I listened to him, and he dragged me off to Mexico for 3 weeks in the middle of the semester. I got a C in the hardest course of the program, they put me on academic probation, and I nearly got kicked out of RPI.

When I was in grad school, I was working 60 hours a week, spending 20 hours a week on homework, leading a singles Bible study, and participating in an older singles Bible study. I also did all my own cooking, laundry, and cleaning and grocery shopping.

The elder was not happy. He insisted on me being a teen leader too, with a group of teens to "disciple". He said my involvement with singles was not "ministry". To him, it was "play" and the "young adults" were too "big" for a "teen group" and were living in "protracted adolescence". He saw the young single men as being immature.

[10. livinginfreedom said the following at 3:58 PM on Jan 6:]

10

are you kidding?! this is a ridiculous statement. i don't think your relationship status has any connection to your busyness. i recently earned two degrees while working full time and volunteering on the side. this statement makes me really mad, actually. i, too, would gladly give up some of the busyness for a man and family. after a few years of leaving time for a relationship, to no avail, i decided to carpe diem and make the most out of every minute. i know married people who are much less busy. the statement is just really unfounded.

[11. James said the following at 4:27 PM on Jan 6:]

11

Jesus and Paul were single.

They were both pretty busy.

[12. JuliaH said the following at 4:29 PM on Jan 6:]

12

Sigh. Generalizations like that are unhelpful and just increase the us vs. them mentality in churches. I wish that pastors would keep their mouths shut sometimes.

[13. Tami said the following at 4:30 PM on Jan 6:]

13

BDB (5) speaks truth.

My thoughts:

One should *never* be "too busy" to serve God at one's church in *some* capacity. I work, go to school, and serve pretty frequently. If you have a heart to serve, God will grant you the time. Now, if you're working and in school, it may be a season where you serve *less* than otherwise, but you still must serve. So yes, I think "I'm too busy" CAN be a copout. But let's face it, unmarried people aren't the only ones guilty of this.

On the other hand, I think that how much you serve is a matter that's first between you and God, and then between those who oversee you in the church (pastor, discipler, etc). If you're stretched and stressed, tell someone. They may not realize the demands on your time, and may assume you have time. (In my case, there were a couple people who didn't realize how busy I was until they went back to school or work themselves.)

If you *are* busy, don't let fear that someone will think you're "lazy" deter you from saying no if God isn't leading you to be involved in something. I don't think there's anything God-honoring about grumbling your way through a service project.

I think that when unmarried people get upset when they hear about all the "time" they have, they're not necessarily reacting to the idea that they may indeed be more autonomous, but instead that someone -- who may have the married-with-children life they'd very much LIKE to have -- is making assumptions about what their lives "should" look like, and that the responsibilities they have (e.g., grad school) are not that important. As livinginfreedom (10) wrote, many women would GLADLY exchange much of whatever is on their current schedule for a life as a wife and mother. It just comes across as though the person is telling them that even if they serve, work, and study wholeheartedly unto the Lord, their current activities are less meaningful and important than those of whoever's making the statement. Thus it *can* sound a bit arrogant, even if it's not intentional. In the case of the statement Motte quoted, it almost sounds as though the pastor is defining busyness on his terms -- in a manner that suggests that being a parent (i.e., his life) is the only life that is truly "busy" and thus no one else has any excuse. So yes, I think he's in error when he says that it's impossible for a single person to be busy.

[14. Vanessa said the following at 4:39 PM on Jan 6:]

14

#9 Obewan - You hit the nail on the head when you said that married people have someone to share the load.

As a single person, I have to split my time between work, household chores, study, recreation, etc. Do I have more flexibility? Yes. Am I less busy? Not really.

A normal career-minded person works between 40-50 hours a week (or more) and has another 10 hours (at least) of lunch break and commuting time. Laundry, meal preparation and clean up, tiding the house, and other various chores such as yardwork, maintenance, etc (unless you make enough money to pay someone else to do all of this for you) take up another 4-5 hours a week at least. Most studies I've read state that there is an average of 25 hours worth of household duties a week to be done in a normal household. That's anywhere from 60-100 hours a week of stuff that HAS to be done.

I agree that a better term for the idea would be "independence" rather than "busy." If anything, I think single people are MORE busy than their married peers because they've been persuaded that their single years is the time to live it up, to do everything. Spend as much time studying, relaxing, socializing, serving, as you can because once you get married, all that will change. That's been what has been preached at us. We're told that there is so much stuff we can do while we're single, we need to do it all.

Married people can bow out of things saying they need "together" time or families can say that the kids' schedule won't permit it. Nobody gets offended and most people expect it. Single people don't have any excuse except, "I don't want to" or "I'm already busy" and that often is not acceptable.

[15. Katrece said the following at 4:45 PM on Jan 6:]

15

I think at certain stages of anyone's life, regardless of marital status, it can be more difficult to invest as much into kingdom service. I teach a bible study and there's a med student who comes. The course we did last fall was rather rigorous- why not, we're studying God's word! I totally understand when people don't have time to complete the "homework"; the important thing is that they're reading God's word. I was so impressed one week when the med student came even though he had a huge test the next day. At this stage of his life, he has just as much to do, and I would argue even more to do, than some married people.

[16. Jeni said the following at 4:47 PM on Jan 6:]

16

Marital status doesn't indicate busy-ness. I know quite a few married people who aren't busy. Among my friends who are married, I'm usually the one who is not current with several television shows. This does not mean that they are non-busy; I think it does indicate that they do make time to watch the shows that they want to watch. Everyone chooses how and where to spend their time.

Single people make commitments and have responsibilities in life. Therefore people depend on them to be places and do things. This pastor's statement reminds me of a sermon on singleness I heard at my church about 7 years ago. The basic message was: "Single people should be using all of their non-work hours serving the church in any and all capacitities." All people, single or married, should serve the church, community, family and friends to whom God has called them.

[17. Karen said the following at 5:02 PM on Jan 6:]

17

But busyness *isn't* the amount of autonomy you have to plan your time. That's what flexibility is.

Certainly a single person has more flexibility that a married person with the exact same amount of responsibilites, but they are equally busy.

[18. Michael said the following at 5:16 PM on Jan 6:]

18

Maybe he forgot what it's like to be in school. While I have no doubts about the busyness of family life, student life is plenty busy too. Between work, class and study, some weeks you are literally working all the time. No books or movies with the kids. A little game of peekaboo at night would be relaxing for a change.

[19. Keith said the following at 5:23 PM on Jan 6:]

19

There are some significant exceptions, but most single guys do have a lot of free time on their hands. Unfortunately, there are very few areas in the church they can serve. In fact, apart from being part of the worship team or running the sound board, there are almost no areas for single men to serve.

For that reason, most my volunteer service is done outide of the church. I have volunteered on a crisis line, the Scouts, with Big Brothers, and a crime prevention group. It's pretty sad that most single guys have to look outside the church for places to volunteer at.

[20. SJ said the following at 5:59 PM on Jan 6:]

20

With all due respect to Pastor Thune, I must contend that his statement is a broad generalization that is unfair to many. Medical professionals are a good example of this: while they have a little bit of flexibilities in their schedules, many times, they have tighter time constraints than many married couples. My old church in Saint Louis would always have at least 25% of our medical students, residents, nurses, and other medical staff absent on Sundays and for ministry events because they had to work.

I do agree however that many singles use "being busy" as a poor excuse for just not coming out. Having been a part time student with a full time job for nearly six years now, if God is a priority, it's not too difficult to carve out time to support ministries.

That being said, I do think that too many married couples use their children as excuses to not be as active in the church and shift a disproportionate amount, if not all, of ministry activities to single people and the tiny handful of married people who have stepped up to serve the church, overloading singles and sometimes creating resentment in the process. Much like the "busy" single people, if these married people had their priorities straight, they could find time to serve in at least some small way.

[21. Benjamin said the following at 6:00 PM on Jan 6:]

21

"Certainly, there is a sense in which all students – especially grad students – are busy."

This seems to be a common assumption, but I am not sure why. I am in my 4th year of graduate work, and never in my undergraduate or graduate schooling have I come anywhere near spending 40 hours per week on schoolwork/research. There are those who study obsessively or are forced to work full-time, of course, but by and large, student life is the least busy time of life.

[22. BDB said the following at 6:07 PM on Jan 6:]

22

OK, I looked at the cited author's bio. Now I see why his single years weren't "busy." Looks like he had to jam with his band and plan those social events for college students. Yeah, I can see why his personal experience is that single men have a lot of autonomy and aren't busy.

Some of us got real jobs after college. We gave up that autonomy and started supporting ourselves. And yes, work forces people to grow up because if you don't learn to give up what you want, you get fired. The people who get promoted are those who put their personal wants aside and do the tasks that the business and their boss need to be done, even when those tasks are unpleasant and not stuff we like to do.

As I regularly explained to my staff, we all have parts of the job we don't like. Be thankful for the hassles, because without them, you could pay someone half as much to do only the pleasant stuff. I led my staff by making sure everyone had at least one thing they wanted and enjoyed doing. And as a team we divided up all the unpleasant and boring tasks to share the load. Even though I was theoretically "in charge" and had control of my time, in reality had had to allocate a large portion of my time to tasks I found necessary evils. It turns out they pay you better when you take on the work that no one else wants to do.

[23. Cait said the following at 6:17 PM on Jan 6:]

23

Did he forget that single people have family too and that comes with responisibilities and commitments? No my time is not autonomous.

Also he is saying we are too busy to serve. Serve what? Serve the church or serve God? I'm not saying they are separate things but I choose the spend my time studying because I believe God has called me to that profession and I need to do my best. Does that mean I have to forego formal ministry? yes, but that doesn't mean I'm not chosing to spend my time in service. I'm serving God where He has lead me.

[24. Dave said the following at 6:30 PM on Jan 6:]

24

Re: #8

It doesn't just sound like damage control. It is damage control.

Bob Thune had a nastier version of this post up earlier, but then added a bit of a disclaimer and wiped out prior comments (including mine) dealing with things that some here have mentioned (e.g. being able to divide household chores)

[25. TFA said the following at 7:13 PM on Jan 6:]

25

"When you are single, you are in control of your schedule. You have complete freedom to decide what to devote your time to. The decision of when to study, when to sleep, when to eat, is yours and yours alone"

You are always in control of your schedule regardless of your marital status. You prioritize what is important - sometimes it's a spouse, sometimes, it's a career. Being married doesn't mean the spouse takes priorirty over the career. It should, but this is not the default setting. What you devote time to is a function of your life goals and purpose, not a a function of your marital status.

[26. Sara said the following at 7:19 PM on Jan 6:]

26

Point A: Singles can be busy, even single men. Many people I know go to school full-time and work full-time.

Point B: What is with this discussion now about who is busier: Married couples or Singles? I am married, but I am probably going back to school while working full-time. My husband works one full-time job and two part-time jobs. When we are home, the last thing we want to do together are chores. However, I wouldn't say I am busier than some singles I know. How busy you are has nothing to do with your marital status. That is just silly.

[27. Mark said the following at 7:36 PM on Jan 6:]

27

As a recently-married guy, this pastor definitely has a point. When I was single, I wasn't available all the time, but I could be available at any time. When he says "busy," what he means is not "full schedule" but "flexible schedule."

A single, independent grad student can take a semester or two off and resume studies later. A married man with a family cannot do the same; he has continuous obligations to his wife and children.

Before I got married, I often heard that a wife can be one of the most powerful sanctifying agents in your life. That sounded great to me, but I didn't really understand what it meant at the time. Am I growing closer to Christ now that I am married? Yes. But sanctification is not fun. I am learning how selfish and despicable I really am. That "dying to self" part means openly acknowledging your faults and changing your ways, and it's hard.

Don't let this culture tell you that following God's model for marriage means you're "whipped." Or rather, do let them tell you that, and let it remind you to share in Christ's suffering.

[28. John Mac said the following at 7:39 PM on Jan 6:]

28

I think his defintion of busyness is really arbitrary, and I think a better word for what he means when he says "busy" would be "constrained", or "non-atonomous".

That said, I think his overall point is often valid. I have done a lot of activities, jobs, volunteering, etc. during my four years at university, but I still do have free time. And so it frustrates me when I see other single students who have less on their plate than me, turn down a serving opportunity because they are "too busy". What they really mean is they aren't willing to sacrifice anything else they are doing. And given how much time I know they spend on procrastination (rhymes with "lace book") it's a little sad to see.

So while I disagree with his terminology, and I think busyness and autonomy are two entirely different concepts, I think his point is generally true.

[29. Peter said the following at 7:46 PM on Jan 6:]

29

Point that hasn't been made is that a lot of what fills the time for a single adult, is contributing to their future marriage and family life.
Getting an education, paying off a house.....

Who says that the responsibilities of married life start only at the altar?

[30. John said the following at 7:47 PM on Jan 6:]

30

Hyperbole: deliberate and obvious exaggeration used for affect

This is overstating the single person’s freedom and the married people's commitment to others. Singles do not have complete freedom from biological constraints, social obligations or restrictions on their free time. And neither does getting married and having children automatically result in ‘dying to self’, due to putting the needs of others first.

Certainly, having a larger family can make you ‘busy’. But to be frank, this is a choice. Regardless of marital status, people make choices that result in consequences. A choice to be busy can result from explicit goals (like attending grad school, or having multiple children), or by necessity, such as working hard to support yourself.

I think it is what drives the choice to be busy that is important. Are we implying that busyness in our christian walk somehow equates to Godliness, so the busier we are with ‘ministry’ activities (even to our own family), the more sanctified we are becoming? Being busy is not always healthy: people can be busy to mask unmet emotional needs (like being single, when they don’t want to be), or to cover up brokenness (possibly unrecognised, or too painful to confront). But because they’re ‘ministering’, it’s perceived as acceptable and encouraged.

[31. connie said the following at 8:31 PM on Jan 6:]

31

I'd like to point out here a common misconception that "serving" has to mean serving the church in some capacity. While most folks can and should serve in their local church, I know from experience that serving God does not necessarily mean doing "church work." I serve God at my secular job-I have had opportunities to pray with customers, minister to coworkers, etc. (I have a Christian boss so have pretty free reign which is nice) and I am also a wife who has meals to prepare, a house to clean, clothing to wash, etc. (My kids are grown.) In this particular season it would be irresponsible of me to do anything else since right now my ministry is at home and at work, or informally on the computer...in other words, life IS ministry if you have that mindset. Anyone who guilts someone else into a church job is not doing God any favors.

I certainly hope at some point to be able to come back home fully and at that point, of course pick up the kinds of things I used to do at church. But I am responsible only to God and to my husband for my time, and I respect each season in my life. Frankly if someone is in grad school and working full time and also has to manage their own home I think it is irresponsible to expect them to lead a small group as well, for the simple reason that a person in that season does not have the time they need to spend with the people in the group both in and outside group time. My husband and I have both led small groups in the past both singly and together so I know quite well what that sort of responsibility entails.

[32. Kathleen said the following at 10:00 PM on Jan 6:]

32

Busyness is not the same as parenthood.
Not all dependents are children.
Single doesn't mean without kids.
Not all responsibilities revolve around children.
Having children isn't an excuse for poor time management skills.

The pastor might want to think a little harder next time.

[33. Carolyn said the following at 10:24 PM on Jan 6:]

33

I really don't think he's correct on this one. Some of us single people have lives and schedules that are very dependent on our obligations. Mine often revolves around a pager that can take me for hours any time day or night. Sure, I didn't initially have to make that commitment, or my commitment to go to school, or to work, or to continue to be an active part of my family, but now that those commitments are made, my schedule is just as planned and just as dependent on other people as most married people that I know. Really not a lot of autonomy in the life of someone with demanding obligations. Marriage can be one of those demanding obligations, but it certainly isn't the only one.

[34. saidahwk said the following at 10:31 PM on Jan 6:]

34

Okay, a lot of you guys who are citing commitments like school, work, etc are missing the point. The point is, you are responsible for yourself. No one else. If you chose to work less, not work at all, go to school, not go to school at all, it's up to you. If you chose to take 21 units and be "too busy" or take 12 units and have tons of free time, it's your choice. If I get a job, or don't get a job, it's something I can't do without discussing with my husband and considering the ramifications on the people God has asked me to be responsible for (my family). The Bible doesn't ask us to go to grad school, work over time or even "have recreation time." Unless you have a spouse or children, the Bible is pretty clear that your time is God's.

Oh, and #11, Jesus and Paul were busy... doing what the author is saying the rest of us shouldn't be too busy NOT to do. Serving.

[35. Matt said the following at 11:39 PM on Jan 6:]

35

Man .... someone hit a sore topic.

Keith #19: I'd have to strongly disagree. There are plenty of oppurtunities for single guys to serve in churches. Let's see in the past 10 years I have, taught 3rd and then 4th grade Sunday School with my likewise single male roommate. I have taken care of toddlers. I currently teach in my K/1 grade Sunday School. And no, I'm not a teacher by trade but a DBA. I did about 3 years of tech booth. I've worked at a foster kids camp through church. There are tons of oppurtunities if you are willing to look for them.

And BDB #22: As one of those that got a real job right of college and supported myself, I'd have to disagree. My roommate mentioned above and I did similair work at different defense contractors. However, he got married and I have not yet. I have significantly more free time then he has. That is even with me doing tons of volunteer work, leading a Bible study, effectively being involved in 3 different churches volunteering in each. Still, I had more free time then him and had lots of time to watch lots more TV and play more video games than I probably should have.

[36. Jo said the following at 11:59 PM on Jan 6:]

36

Ted, #2:

He can define 'busyness' however he likes. Doesn't make his definition correct.

Why would Boundless even post this? Way to make singles feel even less welcome and more misunderstood.

[37. Jim said the following at 12:13 AM on Jan 7:]

37

Single or married, everyone claims to be "busy" these days, especially too busy to spend time with the Word.(often, "busyness" is just an excuse to avoid something else, whether good or bad). I think it is all about priorities and time management. I am guilty of this too, but i think EVERYONE, SHOULD NOT be TOO BUSY for anything ...

[38. Elizabeth H. (Russia) said the following at 3:19 AM on Jan 7:]

38

In a word: YES.

Touchy subject! There are times when I start to feel resentful because it feels like people always assume I'm "free" and can just move my schedule around since I don't have a family. But at the same time, I do have the right to say no, while a parent cannot suddenly say no to a part of child-rearing.

When you find yourself doing things hastily and without care, it may be a sign that there's too much on your plate. I hate feeling like I did a bad job preparing for Sunday school or something like that because of overcommitment.

It's possible to decline initially, but once you have committed to something, I find it hard as a single person to justify to other people my need to take a break.

[39. Kelly-1 said the following at 5:32 AM on Jan 7:]

39

Vanessa: "Married people can bow out of things saying they need "together" time or families can say that the kids' schedule won't permit it. Nobody gets offended and most people expect it. Single people don't have any excuse..."

You just described my life. As the ONLY unmarried sibling of 5, guess who's the one who always stays back to clean up after family events?

[40. MrsLarijani said the following at 6:02 AM on Jan 7:]

40

As other commenters have already said - it depends.

A friend of mine started grad school as a single woman with three part-time jobs (one of which was paying for her graduate work) and ended as a married woman with two part-time jobs. (The 3rd one she was in the midst of dropping when she started grad. school.)

How she managed to plan a wedding in the midst of all of that, I won't ever understand. I had one full-time job and had no time to devote attention to wedding planning until I put in my two weeks notice.

Neither my husband nor I were "lazy" as single people. We were/are involved in our church as much as we can be. So, neither one of us would have fallen under this Pastor's criticism for being "too busy to serve". We served and that is why we were so stinkin' busy.

I think, though, that unless this pastor is catching single men red-handed by the dozens playing Wii or PlayStation instead of figuring out what the church needs, then he should lay off.

I know that I saw a lot of males play video games during college, but that was a whole different ball game in my opinion. We were over-extended due to the nature of the college beast. All of us had different ways of unwinding from stress. And, really, they weren't playing every night. It was more like every other week on a Friday or Saturday night. It seemed like every night to me because it was something that I thought was "ridiculous".

Anyhow, unless he is attempting to personally disciple these men one-on-one and is being met with frustration day after day after day, I would suggest that he lay off the generalizations.

[41. Courtney P. said the following at 7:00 AM on Jan 7:]

41

I believe that Pastor is right in some aspects, but as an unmarried woman in college working part-time and most important to this post I live at home with my parents. In living as home with my parents I am unmarried not "single" my life is a part of my family’s life. In my home I have taken on many home responsibilities, I clean, make the meal plan, grocery shop (I am a coupon clipper so this takes a little more time), laundry for not just myself, assist my father in our family business, my father is an Elder in our church and we practice the ministry of hospitality. This is just the basically of what my life consist of not including the ministry outside my home. I believe that I am not as “busy” as a wife and mother, but I did do believe I am “busier” then the average 22 year old single man. My two cents.

[42. JennR said the following at 7:08 AM on Jan 7:]

42

RE: Post #22 - BDB

Please read the bio carefully before you criticize. It said he led "a small band of people" to plant a church. Not a musical group. Also, don't take him being a missionary to college students so lightly. That's a volatile time in most people's lives. Most college ministers I have met are, in fact, very "busy" being involved in the lives of others.

[43. Leigh said the following at 7:22 AM on Jan 7:]

43

Im single, I WELCOME busyness! ha ha ha

Leigh

[44. Dan Gill said the following at 7:28 AM on Jan 7:]

44

Here's an idea: Let's all decide what the definition of every word is for ourselves. That will really help us all communicate.

Busy is not synonymous with autonomous, despite what the pastor says.

[45. Suzanne said the following at 7:58 AM on Jan 7:]

45

My concern over this blog post is more about the purpose of it.

Whether or not the statement is true is of no consequence if there isn't purpose behind it. What was his purpose in telling people this? Was this edifying and uplifting? Or did this just cause the single people in his congregation feel more isolated and annoyed and left rolling their eyes in disgust. Just because it's permissible doesn't mean it's profitable.

[46. Ashley said the following at 8:03 AM on Jan 7:]

46

I'm not offended that the church sees singles as a rich resource to tap into.

I AM offended that we're seen as the ultimate SAKV ( http://stuffchristianslike.net/2009/04/526-the-swiss-army-knife-volunteer/ )
with no interests or value of our own to pursue.

When you're serving with all you've got in a small church, sailing on the good ship Gift Of Helps toward the Island of Burnout, it really REALLY doesn't help to be reminded that you're being called on because you don't have all that messy family responsibility to take care of. - Especially if that means getting pigeonholed into almost exclusively one-gendered or authoritative (think "leading a teen small group" or "Leading a small group of college freshmen") type ministry -- where you're even more likely to remain single.

[47. Trevor Dolby said the following at 8:07 AM on Jan 7:]

47

I fear Bob Thune may be wrong for the wrong reasons (there should be a Mastermind peg for that) in his analysis of the single life.

Most single people seem to be extremely busy, and so do most married people; so much so, in fact, that there's a lot less time to be spent on just being with others. Everybody has something they have to do, somewhere they must be, etc, and unplanned social events are quite rare.

It would be nice if he was right, really.

[48. Elisabeth said the following at 8:32 AM on Jan 7:]

48

I find this post to be challenging, and the author is speaking in love. From my perspective as a single woman with a professional career that also entails a demanding schedule at times, God has put on my heart what His priorites are for me. My time is precious to me, but I was obedient to the call to serve in an inner city youth ministry. God has really blessed me and this ministry has brought such joy into my life. How? Because it has brought me closer to Him. There are many challenges in ministry work, and a lot of it is dying to self. I’ve been blessed to work along side many passionate followers of Christ who believe Serving is a big priority in the Christian walk. Classes, bible studies, and church are also priorities, but being servant hearted is a big part of what God calls us to do in our walk.

God had put a verse from Mark 4 on my heart just yesterday...

Listen carefully to what I am saying—and be wary of the shrewd advice that tells you how to get ahead in the world on your own. Giving, not getting, is the way. Generosity begets generosity. Stinginess impoverishes.” Mark 4:24-25

[49. Anna said the following at 8:43 AM on Jan 7:]

49

It's seems like the point is being missed. Obviously, single people are busy. The difference is that the busyness is a choice we make. We can always drop out of graduate school or quit our job for another. However, you don't just opt out of parenting or marriage if you feel your life is too busy. I think the difference is not in whether we are busy or not but rather in whether we are able to make the choice to decrease our level of activity.

[50. Amir Larijani said the following at 8:43 AM on Jan 7:]

50

BDB: I'll take it one step further.

Show me a pastor who says, "If you're single, you aren't busy", and I will show you a man who is too stupid to be preaching.

Oh, and one need not be a grad student to be busy.

When I was an undergrad--majoring in aeronautical engineering--I worked 25 hours a week in addition to my studies.

As for seminary, I'd say the difficulty of that is overrated. If you are good at writing papers, it's not that hard. Compared to engineering, I thought the rigor of seminary was a joke. And I went to a fairly "tough" seminary.

The only thing difficult was the tedium, which can hurt you if you have to work long hours to put food on the table while doing studies.

[51. Logan Elaine said the following at 9:12 AM on Jan 7:]

51

I get what he's trying to say, however, a single person HAS to do the grocery shopping, HAS to do the laundry, HAS to do the cleaning, HAS to pay the bills, HAS to fix dinner... There is no one to share the load with.

Everyone is different. I am engaged and work full-time and go to seminary full time. I have married friends that go to school full time, have kids, and some work and some don't. They're each making a choice to fill their time with work, or not. *shrugs*

[52. Gina said the following at 9:13 AM on Jan 7:]

52

Just another salvo in the ongoing battle between single and married Christians. What else is new? Until both groups learn to respect each other and stop making snap judgments and blanket statements, it's never going to stop.

[53. Nathan F said the following at 9:23 AM on Jan 7:]

53

How is a commitment of your personal time to developing the skills necessary to heal people (studying to be a doctor) or to learn the skills necessary for any trade that can be used in the creation mandate or great commission ... or being deployed away from family and friends under the obligation to the military in order to serve that country and (ideally) engender a more stable world for all ... still considered autonomous?

The point is valid that busyness might be defined in terms of autonomy. But marriage is not the only way to loose autonomy. Actually, it seems as though by definin commitment exclusively in terms of relationships we are ignoring and mistaking a subset of a much larger and more encompasing category.

Actually, I think it's a little bit arrogant to think that "only married people have given up autonomy" which is basically the argument put forward in this blog. Certainly marriage is one way to give up autonomy, but (and this is from a single guy to Iraq at the moment ...) it's not the only one!

[54. Tami said the following at 9:28 AM on Jan 7:]

54

I agree that our entire lives offer opportunity to minister, and that no one should be guilted into anything at church.

Still, if we're part of a church, fellowshipping on a particular body of people on a regular basis, we should serve in some capacity. That doesn't mean that you *have* to be an usher or teach children's Sunday school or lead a women's group or (insert whatever it is someone is telling you you "should" do here). Nor does it mean that once you did something, you have to do it forever. But, I think contributing to your church -- however God leads you to do that -- is important. During certain times of your life, that may just mean pitching in whenever you have the opportunity. Because if everyone but the pastor and staff ministered *only* outside the church, and no one did the less "noticeable" (or unpaid) jobs, how would the church function?

(P.S., I do think churches should be involved in their communities -- so I'm definitely not saying that community work/ministry "doesn't count" as a form of service.)

[55. Kellie said the following at 9:28 AM on Jan 7:]

55

While I think the pastor makes a broad assumption, for me personally, as a parent I have a lot less free time than I did as a childless person (in truth, I was probably busier as a single person--in school, working, and making regular trips to spend time with my now-husband than as a childless married person). But now, I am hesitant to attend any event that would take my family out past 8pm, would interfere with my child's naptime, or generally just take time away that would be spent with my family.

[56. Joel said the following at 9:41 AM on Jan 7:]

56

I find it amazing how many comments on this blog are in agreement, and from several different angles. I would like to draw attention to Suzanne's comment on the original blog, the third one from the top. My problem is not with the idea that singles have more autonomy than marrieds, but with his attempt to redefine the word busy. She hits the nail on the head: "Language matters, and if you have to define your use of busy with another word (autonomy) for your argument to hold water, I’d submit you should just use autonomy, or the like, instead."

He flat out says in his blog "Instead, think of busyness as the amount of autonomy you have in the use of your time." Why should we do this? Is there some Old English meaning that has been lost? Is there a common Latin root that also means "lack of autonomy in the use of your time?" I welcome anyone to produce some evidence for that, but I think you'll have a very hard time finding it because that's not what "busy" means. In fact, I would argue that busy actually implies autonomy. You wouldn't consider a slave, someone who has no choice in the work they do, "busy." You might call them diligent or lazy, or hard working, but you wouldn't call them busy. If anything, being busy implies making a choice to be "engaged in action" or "full of activity" (from Merriam-Webster).

The problem with changing the meaning of words to bolster your argument or convey a truth is, as CS Lewis explains beautifully in Mere Christianity http://glenn.typepad.com/news/2003/08/cs_lewis_on_the.html, "It has every available quality except that of being useful."

I don't know if this blog was "damage control" as mentioned by #24, but if he really deleted comments that had already been posted and changed parts of a previous blog, it seems a little suspicious to me. (I'm still new to the "blogoshpere" though; is that common?) There's no call to "understand busyness" in a way that no one has ever understood it before just to make a point. He could have just as easily said "What I really meant was, if you're single, you're autonomous."

[57. Geoffrey said the following at 9:50 AM on Jan 7:]

57

Contra to the post above, the point of Thune’s blog post isn’t really about single guys being too “busy” to serve. Indeed, I think that part of the post detracts from the point Thune is actually trying to make, which is that our desire for “autonomy,” or “independence,” a desire that, quite frankly, is not only encouraged, but fundamental to our western way of life, is inherently a selfish, self-absorbed desire that needs to be extinguished. Thune suggests that a man “taking a wife” is one way – perhaps to him the most obvious way – to deal with our selfishness. Two points: First, the desire for autonomy or independence is not one that is exclusively felt by men. Indeed, in light of the liberation movements of the past 30+ years – and I use that term to mean a whole host of things, not just the feminist movement – I think it’s something that young women – Christian or not – desire much more than men – or, at least, they’re taught that they should desire it. Selfishness is a defining factor – arguably, the defining factor – of our sin condition. It’s universal. We all need to deal with it. Second, I’m not convinced that “taking a wife” is the best way to teach a man – or anyone, for that matter – how to kill selfishness. And, unless there is an acknowledgement and understanding of our selfishness prior to marriage, I think that marriage - given the nature of the commitment involved - can be counterproductive. Men – and women – need to start dealing with their selfishness long before entering into the marriage covenant.

[58. Mike Theemling said the following at 9:51 AM on Jan 7:]

58

TFA (#25) echoes my sentiment exactly.

Single or married, everyone for the most part controls what they want to do with their time. If someone wants to be an "absentee" parent they are well within their rights to do so (within reason of course as outright neglect can be criminal).

I won't say more because a lot of people have already summed up a lot of good points to which I agree with (and you can guess which side I take in this matter).

Even though I don't think it was his intention, it sounds like this pastor simply wanted to bring up the question with intentionally misleading verbage just to poke a hornets nest.

[59. April said the following at 10:05 AM on Jan 7:]

59

Seems that the attempt to redefine "busyness"--an already clearly defined word--was done as a means to push buttons. More autonomy, yes. Less busy, no, unless one chooses to waste the time they have. I've noticed that single people aren't the ones using their time logging endless posts on facebook about their baby's toilet training.

[60. Jo said the following at 10:17 AM on Jan 7:]

60

The issue with this article is not simply whether single people are or aren't as busy as married people, or even whether single people do or don't have more autonomy than married people.

The issue is what the statement implies. "If you're single you aren't busy, and therefore..."

Therefore you should be helping with this ministry, or therefore you should be serving more frequently, or therefore I'll call on you to do this because you have the free time...?

If anyone, married or single, is too busy to do whatever it is that God is calling them to do, then they are too busy. By all means, encourage people - all people - to serve in whatever ways they are able. By all means challenge people who seem not to be taking any active role in the church.

But don't assume that just because someone doesn't have a wife and kids, he's therefore obligated to participate in any ministry you want him to. Perhaps those things that the guy has 'chosen' with his 'autonomy' to fill his time with are things that God has led him to. Do you really want to make that guy feel guilty for not teaching Sunday School, when God has asked him to do something else instead? That's how you end up with burnt out Christians who do too much and never rest, because of responsibilities that people have put on them, not God.

[61. Brittany said the following at 10:18 AM on Jan 7:]

61

Wow, that's a lot of responses in a short time. I am glad that we got away from the virgin/non-virgin debate for a while!!!

A lot of people have made the point that single people are not obligated to do things but can choose to do or not do things whereas a married person MUST do things for the sake of others (their family).

I just wanted to make the point that married people can choose to damage relationships just like single people can. I think that the best way to demonstrate Christ's love is through deep, loving relationships and those things take time. In a way, I am obligated to my friends to show them love and spend time on them/with them. Also, other obligations such as school, health (going to the gym), chores, etc. are not things that SHOULD be neglected by persons single or married. We should all be obligated to others as Christians and obligated to ourselves to take care of ourselves.

I also live at home so I don't have much of a choice to do what I want as I am obligated to my family as well as my church. If I skip out on those things, it would be like a husband blowing off his wife and kids to play foosball with 'the guys'. Permissible but not beneficial!!!

[62. Charles said the following at 10:24 AM on Jan 7:]

62

I'm a single Christian man; previously married, my ex left for another believer. I'm contemplating becoming a nurse practitioner... It would be a cut in pay for me in my profession if I served in that capacity, but give me more opportunities to serve as a medical professional on mission trips, and in a larger capacity than I can presently as an RN. I'm going to be very busy if pursue this, very very busy. This dingleberry pastor, though, will never see the "healing of the sick" that I will see.

[63. -WL- said the following at 10:38 AM on Jan 7:]

63

Louise (#7) .. the quote mentions parenting: "And when you have kids, things really change." as in - he wasn't speaking to parents (single or otherwise). I believe the context is unmarried / no children singles.

I understand the article - it seems that a lot of commenters didn't read the whole post :) (in terms of how busyness is defined). It IS true as a single you can define how your time is used. If you are "too busy" as a single, you have the capacity to change that without affecting someone else (spouse/children).

[64. Tami said the following at 10:49 AM on Jan 7:]

64

Thanks for your points Jo (60) -- I agree.

Rather than intentionally being provocative (and probably knowing he was going to tick people off with his statement), here are some things I think he *could* have talked about that would have been more productive and less divisive:

1. Kingdom priorities (he mentions this in the blog, but makes it sound as though the *only* time you see these are in family life or whatever he defines as church service -- because you can spend 24/7 at church "busy" with someone *else's* priorities rather than God's)
2. Time management
3. The benefits of marriage
4. Intentionality
5. Accountability
6. Spiritual gifts (and how and when to use them)
7. Service
8. What it means to be part of the church (a participant rather than a mere attender)
9. Traits that lead to godliness
10. Selfishness
11. The importance of discipleship

Hmm... In other words, he should have directed them to Boundless ;)

Seriously, though it's beneficial to challenge people out of their apathy, I think it's better to do that using God's Word, rather than crafting our own provocative statements.

As a grad student, I would react MUCH better to "Are you doing your work to the glory of God and His kingdom?" rather than "You're just making up that you're 'busy.' Let me tell you about busy..."

[65. Amir Larijani said the following at 11:23 AM on Jan 7:]

65

WL writes:

I understand the article - it seems that a lot of commenters didn't read the whole post :) (in terms of how busyness is defined). It IS true as a single you can define how your time is used. If you are "too busy" as a single, you have the capacity to change that without affecting someone else (spouse/children).

Or maybe we DID read the post, and

(a) we reject his attempts to cover his tracks by defining "busyness" on his own terms;

(b) we reject his attempts to elevate procreation to the level of spiritual gift, as he is dismissive of singles who are involved in various levels of work in the Body. I would challenge that pastor to compare his words against the life and preaching of Paul;

(c) Having read his comments, we conclude that his attempt to frame the argument by narrowing the scope of the meaning of "busyness", is little more than a pretext to (1) browbeat singles and (2) elevate married folks.

Marriage CAN be sanctifying, but it is not GUARANTEED to be. Ditto for parenthood.

Fact is, the husband (wife) can do everything right, and still find himself (herself) divorced.

This is because autonomy doesn't always go away in a marriage, even though we are called to sacrifice that as we marry.

Oh, and a lack of autonomy for the married person does not guarantee that such a one is busy toward the advancement of the Kingdom, any more than the autonomy of the single guarantees that the single person is hard at work toward the advancement of the Kingdom.

[66. Tami said the following at 11:29 AM on Jan 7:]

66

For those of you who say some people didn't read the whole thing, and are implying that we don't "get it" or our disagreement is unfounded --

I contend that many of us *did* read the whole thing -- and we're not disagreeing that unmarried people have more independence, we're disagreeing with the *way* the blog post is written (redefining "busyness" to suit the author's point), and/or the fact that though we're unmarried, we *are* responsible to others -- especially God -- for our time, and that we don't all lead our lives in a manner that is unaccountable to, or uninfluenced by, other authority, and thus the statement is way too broad.

[67. JuliaH said the following at 11:36 AM on Jan 7:]

67

"Ministering" does not necessarily have to take place in a church setting. Getting overly involved with "volunteer" (read: guilt-tripped obligations) work in a church can completely hamper the ministry God may have actually called a person to. Also, even Jesus took time out to retreat and recharge. It is no sin to have some time in your schedule to relax. Singles should not be expected to be at the beck and call of every church group that needs someone to do the work that no-one else wants to. It is ok to say no sometimes.

This book was very helpful to me and by the sounds of it, could be really helpful to lots of the people posting here. http://www.amazon.ca/Boundaries-When-Take-Control-Your/dp/0310209749/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1262889363&sr=1-5

[68. Melissa S. said the following at 11:46 AM on Jan 7:]

68

I get the main point of what the pastor is trying to say. You should have a long-term pattern of service and if your lifestyle is consistently too busy to serve then you should rethink your priorities.

But as for making this a single vs. married with kids thing...it's ridiculous. It's a concept that should be addressed to everyone, regardless of their amount of relationships.

Also, behind all this, I believe, may be the unspoken idea that service is more legitimate when it is in the context of the church building. I know a lot of people in professions that prevent them from having much of a steady commitment at church besides attending services and signing up for things and saying "I'll be there when I can.". Their ministry is through their job and their family and they are legitimately "too busy" or "not autonomous enough" to have much volunteer time at all, married with kids or single. But their professions are truly their calling and it would be crazy for them to free up their time so they could "serve" more.

Here is another thought: There is also a matter of maturity and not realizing things about your life until you look back. For example, if you're single, you might be completely maxed out with commitments and think you couldn't handle more. Then you get married, have a baby, and realize you had more free time than you thought and think you a truly busy now. Then you have another baby and realize that you had more free time than you thought, etc, etc. It's more than just expecting singles to carve out more time from somewhere. Sometimes it's a simple matter of not being mature enough to handle more busyness or a certain kind of busyness. Maybe when God stretches you with kids you learn how to use time better and look back at your single years and think you could have done more when, in fact, you couldn't because you hadn't learned yet and wouldn't have learned until you got stretched with kids or something else. I've sure learned that in my own life, and I've also learned that it is okay to have some free time that isn't scheduled to the max with commitments (although you couldn't really tell from the next four months I've got).

Although I agreed with the blog post's call to serve, it was extremely irritating for many reasons. I haven't been that irritated over a blog post in a long time. I do official service in several different areas so it's not that I'm taking it personally because I feel guilty...and I've seen married people with kids and babies my entire life, besides being the oldest of eight, so I have at least a little insight there, too. :)

[69. Gina said the following at 12:03 PM on Jan 7:]

69

Well said, Melissa.

[70. IMO said the following at 12:09 PM on Jan 7:]

70

#64 I agree with you and Jo...

That first statement he made [“If you’re single, you aren’t busy.”] was provocative and the excuse that it was a "mild hyperbole for the sake of making a point" does not hold water for me. I think the reason it seems like some people haven't read or fully tried to understand what the pastor is saying is because they are seeing red.

The pastor's point could have been articulated better.

[71. James said the following at 12:11 PM on Jan 7:]

71

#34

The implication of Jesus and Paul being single is that one doesn't need to be married to be close to God (or become sanctified in the case of Paul).

Although I think marriage is a good thing and that there are a lot of bad reasons people put off marriage nowadays, the ultimate goal isn't marriage. The goal is Christ.

Plenty of Christians get married and don't die to themselves. Why do you think half of them get divorced in this country?

[72. Lynn said the following at 12:12 PM on Jan 7:]

72

Suzanne, post #45 - my thoughts exactly.

[73. Lorie said the following at 12:18 PM on Jan 7:]

73

Sometimes people feel pressured into serving when they don't really want to, but a lot of the time people do what they want to do. Your actions tend to reflect your priorities. If people serve in the Church it should be because they want to, not because they have a ton of "free time" that needs filling. If your heart is not in it, what is the point? Whether you are married or single, what are some ways that you enjoy to serve the Church? Maybe some new ideas are in order--get some inspiration flowing :) I am single myself and like it when there are areas to serve that will make use of my gifts. That way, I don't feel obligated into service--it becomes something that gives me and others joy.

[74. Hunter W said the following at 12:21 PM on Jan 7:]

74

I don't think this pastor has a clue about the essential and basic Kingdom principles of the Bible. Not only is my time not my own but neither is my life. There was a time not too long ago where I was working 50+ hours a week for a job, another 10+ hours a week running a second business/outreach group, 5+ hours a week leading a Bible study, 10+ hours a week spending time with non-believers, as we're commanded to do... The list goes on.

My life and schedule was not my own but belonged to Christ. I merely followed orders.

[75. khalil said the following at 1:04 PM on Jan 7:]

75

Amir (#65):
You are my hero, you know that, right? Between being busy (work is ministry, ministry is work) and being sick I can't always respond to posts like this...but when one is posted I can count on you for a well-thought and solid response.

[76. BDB said the following at 1:48 PM on Jan 7:]

76

JennR (#42) wrote:

>>It said he led "a small band of people" to plant a church. Not a musical group.<<

I did read it carefully. I didn't say anything about the church planting. I noticed that before the church planting, his primary activity listed was the band. So, yes, I'm interpreting that to mean he was one of those slacker band dudes in college. Maybe I'm wrong, but there's nothing else listed.

>> Also, don't take him being a missionary to college students so lightly.<<

I worked for the Chaplains office in college, and worked directly with the staff of the various ministries to college students. They seemed to have a lot of free time, and much of their "ministry" activities consisted of planning social events for college students, that would then be used as outreach opportunities to bring people into discipleship Bible studies.

While this is important work, it's definitely not on the same level of time constraint as a real 50-hour-week job with specific times. Those 50 hours may come in a 5-day week, or they may come on call.

I admit that I've noticed a correlation between serving and people who insist on putting themselves first. Specifically I noticed that women who don't volunteer anywhere also insist on putting their needs first all the time - to the detriment of their relationships with co-workers and others.

So, when women like that marry the dude from the band, I'm not at all surprised that the transition to marriage is traumatic.

[77. BDB said the following at 1:52 PM on Jan 7:]

77

Anna (#49) wrote:

>>However, you don't just opt out of parenting or marriage if you feel your life is too busy.<<

Unfortunately, people do exactly that all the time. It's called divorce.

[78. Dave said the following at 2:02 PM on Jan 7:]

78

Re: #56: Joel

If you want to confirm that, try posting a comment to his blog, critical of his position. It probably won't appear, or if it does appear it'll probably be deleted after a while - at least that's been my experience. The only exception to that is if the comment doesn't entirely disagree with Thune's argument - of the 3 or 4 comments that I've posted on his blog only one of them remains (Dave on 2 January 2010 at 5:54 pm).

Before the comments were deleted (all of them... not just in the ones in favour of or opposed to his position), there was another comment posted by a friend of Thune's suggesting that Thune was being incredibly generous in responding to any commenters on his blog that he didn't know in real life. Frankly, his post, his friend's post, and the way replies have disappeared from the blog, strongly suggests a lack of humility (and, I might say, a dictionary) on Thune's part.

[79. BDB said the following at 2:31 PM on Jan 7:]

79

His blog post seems obliquely covering material simlar to 1 Corinthians 7:32-34:

32 But I want you to be without care. He who is unmarried cares for the things of the Lord—how he may please the Lord. 33 But he who is married cares about the things of the world—how he may please his wife. 34 There is[a] a difference between a wife and a virgin. The unmarried woman cares about the things of the Lord, that she may be holy both in body and in spirit. But she who is married cares about the things of the world—how she may please her husband.

This does in fact suggest that unmarried people may have more time for Kingdom-building. Of course, Paul is DISCOURAGING marriage because married people become so focused on themselves and worldly things instead of God. One could just as easily write a blog post about how those who are married with children are engaging in worldly conduct that is less honorable than single people who are building the Kingdom.

[80. Zusanne said the following at 3:32 PM on Jan 7:]

80

This pastor is guilty of committing the error we're told to avoid since English 101 and Speech 101: while you want to begin a speech or written piece with a provacative statement to gain your audience's attention, you need to make sure that you don't offend them right off the bat.

Even with all the backpedaling and qualifiying, this pastor has touched a sore spot with many single people who are already very busy. I'm sure that some of his audience spent the rest of the time he was speaking fuming about the introductory sentence. I'm sure I would have had a difficult time getting past the initial crassness (okay, and then I would have been trying to figure out how he was trying to define "hyperbole." He's playing rather fast and loose with that use of the word).

I've observed that most of the time this attitude comes from people who married younger--who have had their entire adult lives to "divide and conquer" their tasks. Those of us who are single understand that we still must maintain a household and manage our money. It's all up to us, not a team effort. Those who have never had to live as a self-sustaining adult really have no comprehension.

I attended graudate school and now work with mostly married men. I was the only one who typed my own papers; the married men either had their wives type their papers or paid someone to do it. My co-workers have the "magic closets" into which their clean/pressed clothing appears; they have the "magic tables" on which food--already prepared--appears and then goes away, packed neatly into containers for the next day's lunch.

In the past I've taken on significant work responsibilities--unpaid--so that my married co-workers can either take on the extra paid work or go home to their families (which, really, after a full day of work, is where they should be, I'm not arguing with that point). About three years ago I decided the world wouldn't come to an end if I decided to back off for a while. Most of the things I've given up have gone to other unmarried people, but a few of the married ones have stepped up and taken on some of the tasks. (One example: I had spent five years in a ministry in which I was "filling in" until we could get a man to do the work; I had agreed even though I'm not really good at what I was supposed to do, but I decided someone else could have a turn. Three years later, they have a married man. And, I'm not bitter, I'm just saying, the men get compensated for this position; the women don't).

Overall, I think that it all depends on how different people are put together. This is one of the lessons the Lord had to beat into me; different people have different threshholds for what they're capable of managing. One of my friends has chosen to take time off his ministry because it's too hard for him to be where he needs to be consistently and on time--because he has two kids. Perfectly understandable. His replacement? Another man with two kids. Same ages. I have a very good friend who, as a full-time employee and a mother of several children, still has time to volunteer in community and serve in her church. In contrast, I know a stay-at-home mom with two children who can't seem to find the time to attend church more than Sunday morning; even volunteering in the nursery is something she won't consider.

I'm having a hard time finding the right word to express what I'm trying to say. It's not stress management or time management--it's management in general. Some people are happiest and most productive when they're juggling fifteen tasks at a time; some people function best when a task is complete before they move on to the next. Throw in the challenges of life--whether single or married--different people manage differently. Those busy married people were (would have been) busy single people; those who are busy single people will probably still be busy when they're married. And the opposite is true.

[81. Ted Slater said the following at 3:43 PM on Jan 7:]

81

Dave (#78) -- at first I read your comment as saying that *we* didn't publish your comments. Then I re-read what you said, and I saw that some of your comments on Pastor Thune's blog were not published.

FWIW, we have published every comment submitted in this discussion, whether favorable or not. :-)

I found this comment, by Bob Thune on his blog, to be somewhat helpful:

"I ask all commenters please not to turn this into a single vs. married debate. Remember: the statement 'If you’re single, you’re not busy,' was 'a form of mild hyperbole for the sake of making a point' -- the point being what Patrick and Micah have already said. Singleness has a level of autonomy attached to it that marriage does not."

That said, I think Bob's clinging to the term "busyness" is unhelpful. There's probably a more accurate term -- maybe "autonomy" -- to describe the point he's trying to make, as some have pointed out here.

[82. B Harrison - Stanwood, WA said the following at 3:44 PM on Jan 7:]

82

As a single person myself can I say, if we are all SO BUSY, how do we have time to post multiple replies, and long replies to this post by a Pastor who is just trying to bring it to our attention that we can see being single as a gift, a gift to use our time the way God would want us to, maybe he is calling you to go to Grad School, or work to pay off bills, or go on a missions trip. I think this post was just a call to take a look at how we use our time, since we don't have a family to devote ourself to, and to look around and see where we can serve. I know that I find a lot more contetment and saftisfaction in my single life when I am serving and involved in my local church.

This is not to discount any bad advice that may have been give to anyone, because we all know we do get bad advice.

But seriously if we all have time to reply to this post, then we have time to serve, or encourage, or bless someone else and I say this even to myself.

[83. jayme said the following at 3:48 PM on Jan 7:]

83

Wow...some of you are really mean on this pastor.
He really does have a heart for singles. He does. He has a church full of them - he pastors a very young church (in terms of ages of members) - lots of singles and young marrieds.

It's one thing to attack his position - it's another thing to call him names.

But it would seem that he's struck a nerve.

Maybe it would help if you knew his ministry philosophy more - see his heart. He believes in the church - that ministry should happen through the church (he's kind of anti-para-church unless directly accountable to a church). He believes the body should be active in reaching people. In planting churches. In being intentional about time and activities. He really does care about people. Maybe he said some things wrong, but geesh...

[84. Jennifer said the following at 3:54 PM on Jan 7:]

84

First, I have noticed that single men do not volunteer in large numbers (or any numbers!) at my large church. I typically volunteer alongside families, who are making time to serve.

Second, guys looking to "take a wife" should check out MarryWell.org.

[85. Dave said the following at 4:02 PM on Jan 7:]

85

Re: Ted (#81):

I'm not always in agreement with the Boundless team's opinions, but I can't say that you've filtered out opposing views in replies (as I would say for Thune's blog).

(I still haven't figured out why sometimes in the past I've gotten error messages on the Boundless blog when attempting to submit comments ... but that seems more like a technical issue than an ideological one)

[86. BDB said the following at 4:30 PM on Jan 7:]

86

#82 - because the married people are over in the married people's forum posting stuff...or they are on facebook posting little stories about what their kids are doing today that's amusing...

[87. MC said the following at 5:17 PM on Jan 7:]

87

Married or single, we are all accountable for our time to One and One alone. I know the frustration of getting the "I'm too busy." excuse and then find out the people feeding me the line found time to hang out with friends.

There is an urgency in the kingdom I understand, but I also know God has not impressed on others yet. So I serve and work with all I have and pray for others join. I also know I do not have the capacity to serve at the pace of some of my friends. So I will not refuse to do that which I can, but I also take seriously God's command to rest.

I think we get Pastor Thune's intent. And it takes more courage and strength to shepherd a chuch body than I could fathom. Were his choice of words misguided? A little. But how about some grace all around and love one another as we would want to love us. With a willingness to understand and humility.

[88. RLynn said the following at 5:37 PM on Jan 7:]

88

The good pastor may have meant well by his post, but he has only added to the feeling that singles often feel stigmatized in church, even if that wasn't his intention. Lots has already been said that single folks do have things they HAVE to do: shop, cook, clean, etc.--without the assistance of a spouse. I am concerned about his thought that we are completely responsible for our own time--first of all, singles have to work, too, and work commitments can be substantial. Also, most singles are members of extended families/close networks of friends and sacrifice (just like married people do) their free time to meet obligations and/or support friends and family. I know plenty of singles who babysit (for free) so married people can have time together, take care sick/dying parents and grandparents, siblings, take those who are disabled shopping or to appointments BASED not on their own schedules, but those they are serving. Today, I spent 8 hours in a hospital waiting room waiting for my (single) sister to come out of surgery--it went longer than planned, so I had to call out of work and cancel participation in a Bible study I was supposed to help lead. Lots of single people alter their schedules to serve others and their church--just like married people.

[89. Jim said the following at 5:50 PM on Jan 7:]

89

The pastor Bob ended his last post with this paragraph ......."For those who feel compelled to defend their level of busyness, it’s worth asking: are you finding righteousness in being busy? Micah’s point is well taken. In our culture “being busy” is the source of much worth, value, and identity. If the contention that “you are not as busy as you think” causes you immediately to defend how busy you ARE, it’s worth asking the question what righteousness you are deriving from your busyness."

I would ask Pastor Bob the same question as a married man. What righteousness are you deriving from your 'busyness' or loss of total 'autonomy' that you would need to look down your nose at singles?

[90. Paul P said the following at 7:34 PM on Jan 7:]

90

Right ON!! Considering, perhaps, I have a little too much experience with this, I feel I can speak loudly, and passionately on it!

A cultural view of busyness is understandable, but I'm seeing more and more, it is not how God sees us men. He made us for a purpose, and it's partly for breadwinning, BUT the tendency is to lose sight of WHY we are pursuing career/education and, at the risk of stomping on some toes: recreation. Don't get me wrong when I say that, those things are not inherently evil or something, but when you lose sight of the why for things, you tend to lean towards breaking the first commandment, and these things can easily turn into idols.

I am speaking to myself, because of being single at 37. And if that wasn't bad enough, unemployed for a year now! Talk about time on someone's hands, and no real positive direction to use it well! This has been my biggest personal concern since I found out I was out of work, but I do hope I've done well with it.

I am totally onboard about the dying to self point as well! I NEED it, badly, I feel, in order to fully become who I was made to be. And I do feel it's suppose to happen through marriage and family. God in His infinate wisdom, has seen fit to allow me to be where I am, but I do see, and desire to be all I can be (made to be really), as a military branch says it!

So let this post reform your thinking on WHY God has us doing 'things', and what His ultimate purpose for us actually IS. That is Biblical thinking, in my book, because it's God's view, not ours!

[91. Paul P said the following at 7:43 PM on Jan 7:]

91

A comment about all the grad school men posting:

Grad school, or any post high school schooling is, by reality, a personal CHOICE you made in the first place, and is NOT required for life. Yes, it's good to have, yes it can be valuable etc.. but to marry, earn a living, have a family, and support them.. it is NOT required.. for generations men have done with less then even 12 years of schooling, and if your a student of history, some very impactful and noteable men have had less then 3 years of formal schooling (Abraham Lincoln anyone??).. so consider that when you think all these external commitments are pulling at you in grad school, or as an under grad: you chose it, and by making that choice you consented to some of those things. The point of automony is NOT nullified by a choice you made a couple of years ago. The writer is still right on, even in your situation. You've just lost sight of the reality of it, which is the author's whole point!

[92. Bex said the following at 8:27 PM on Jan 7:]

92

Whilst I understand that being a parent or caretaker means you have to die to yourself and that your world now revolves around another human beings needs and desires, being single has nothing to do with it. I am single, own my own business, am involved in politics, am helping raise a teenager, and am a firefighter/emt. I don't pick or choose when I sleep or eat. Tonight I didn't eat supper till 2200, and last night I didn't get sleep, because others were having medical emergencies.
The counterpoint of course is one can be married and decide not to participate in the in their relationship (thus killing it) or be a parent only in the physical sense of the relationship.
Yes, I agree that some of my activities, I am more dedicated to because I am single, but I refuse to be a bump on a log just because I am not married. I am here for a purpose and if I don't participate in this one life God has given me, then I have wasted the gift I was given. I do want to be married to share this journey with, but I won't stop living whilst I am still looking for my husband.

[93. Kathleen said the following at 9:51 PM on Jan 7:]

93

Anna writes: Obviously, single people are busy. The difference is that the busyness is a choice we make."

Having children is a choice too.
If the pastor is complaining about his lack of free time, he can always learn to manage his time better. If he's not willing to do that, he probably should have thought this out a little better *before* he decided to have kids.

[94. Noah Kephart said the following at 11:49 PM on Jan 7:]

94

I think that the point that this Pastor was trying to convey has been mis-interpreted a skosh. I would argue that a young single guy has a quality amount of time more available to him than that of a married man. Yes, we add work, travel, school, church and whatever else we have, but we still have much more time than a married man. When a man says I do he is sharing the 168 hours that he has in a week with another person. This Pastor is coming from the perspective that it is the single guys that feel that they can't help in the ministry of the church because they are too "busy". If I sat down and calculated the amount of time I waste doing unproductive things then I would have alot of free time, and that is aside from work, seminary, church and basketball. So...before we find ourselves on the edge of our seat just waiting to jump on this Pastor's back let us analyze the amount of time that we really have. I think that amount of time will shock many of us, and hopefully spur us on to redeem the time and become more involved and more profitable. "When criticism surfaces we need to learn to move toward it." This man criticizes our single lives. Let's move toward that. Let's see what he has to say.

[95. Heather said the following at 11:58 PM on Jan 7:]

95

Wow! I completely disagree with this pastor. This is a case of the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence. Maybe he has his own issues and feels like he is trapped in his life and sees us as free to do what we want. That is not the case. Like someone already said, there is only one of us, and people depend on us just because we are single and we don't have a family to "tie us down." We are expected to do more in the church as in teaching the youth or the kids, etc, yet churches are dwindling in their single's groups. My church just took my group and lumped us with the 18-23 group. It's also harder to get time with my single friends because we have to schedule so far in advance due to our schedules. Even if we do have more autonomy, we are missing everything that comes along with the family. The love, the kisses goodnight from children who think the world of you, the chance to hold your baby in your own arms and to get your own babysitter instead of being the babysitter. I would give up everything to play peek-a-boo with my own child. Maybe I can make the choice of when to sleep or not, or what to eat or not, who cares. I can't chose to have a baby to give that up for. The pastor made his choice when he married his wife and when they chose to have a child. Maybe some of us want to be busier with something that counts more.

[96. Tehilah said the following at 12:06 AM on Jan 8:]

96

I don't find arguing about who is "busy-er" really fruitful to the Body, because it automatically puts us in a position of judging. We don't know what opportunities for witnessing, helping, and praying the quiet, non-busy people are doing in the Body. God is the one that prepares the good works for us to do, not man.
This whole emphasis on busyness is a vortex that I find myself too often caught up in, only to extricate myself and find that all that "work" was as productive as treading water.
It's not how busy we are, it's how obedient we are to God's call on our daily life.

[97. Jo said the following at 12:21 AM on Jan 8:]

97

Paul P, #91:
"Grad school, or any post high school schooling is, by reality, a personal CHOICE you made in the first place, and is NOT required for life...... The point of automony is NOT nullified by a choice you made a couple of years ago."

In that case, a person's autonomy is also not negated by their choice to get married or their choice to have children. They chose to take on the extra responsbilities and commitments of those things, just as a person in grad school did. They're all good things to do, and they're all choices. They all limit autonomy after committing to them. No one is in a unique position here.

[98. Kelly-1 said the following at 3:20 AM on Jan 8:]

98

So... is reading and commenting on Boundless a waste of our time, or is it supplementing our Christian growth?

I can see arguments for both. ;)

[99. Leah said the following at 4:29 AM on Jan 8:]

99

BDB, responding to your comment #5: despite your correct analysis of a graduate student's workload, he still has his choices. Aside from his set classes, he can choose *when* to study. Does he study now, from 8 til 11am then attend class, or does he stay up late and study from 10pm to 2am? Two good examples are my mother and her brother. Mum did a teaching degree. She said she always studied better at night time. So she would sleep from 8 til about 10pm, then wake up and study through til about 2 or 3am, then go back to bed. Her brother would study through the night, have breakfast BEFORE going to bed (at like 4am) so when he woke up fifteen minutes before class he didn't need to eat breakfast then and could run to class. Don't say a parent could rearrange their schedule like that.

The single person still has much, much more flexibility and control over what he does and when.

Keeping that in mind, and responding to Andrea-Elena's comment: it's what single people do with that autonomy that makes them busy or not. The OP is not merely discussing autonomy. Autonomy gives single people the ability to control their busyness (to a certain degree) that married people, especially parents, do not always have.

Honestly, I'm pretty disgusted by a lot of the comments on here.

Heather (95) - while I'm married, I really don't have an awful lot of committments (I have work - normally 2 days a week - housework, involved in mainly 2 ministries at church, teach a few Religious Education lessons for at a local school), and I consider that really, I have a reasonable amount of flexibility with my time. I'm at the age where most of my friends are still single (although several of us are married). I see their lives - even if they're working and involved in church ministries - and they have a lot more freedom with their time than the parents I know. Your suggestion that you're just as busy because people "depend on you" because you're not tied down to a family is, quite honestly, ridiculous. You and I are in a position to say no. You and I are in a position to pick and choose what we say yes to. Someone with a 5 year old, 2 year old and six month old is not. They're parenting 24 hours a day 7 days a week no matter what. It's not like life says to them "oh, could you take Sally to school next week, take Josh to playgroup and make dinner for the family while dealing with Jack who has colic please?" and they have the option to say "sorry, I'm already doing X". Whereas if someone said to me, or you, "Could you help out at the church creche next week?" we can say "Sorry, I've already told Sue that I'm going to meet up with her that morning" or "sorry, I have an exam that afternoon that I have to study for".

It also depends why you're saying "sorry". I know certain university students who are youthgroup leaders with me, who sometimes say "sorry, I won't be able to make it on Friday night because I have to study for an exam on Saturday". Frankly, that excuse does not cut it. What is worse is when they say this during Study Vacation (the week off before exams) - the university specifically gives them the week off for the express reason of studying, but for some reason they have to do it on Friday night when they have a church committment? (And these are students who either do not have jobs, or only a few hours a week).

I think students need to realise there is such thing as studying 'too much' as well. Really, in the long run it doesn't matter if you get all High Distinctions or if you average a Credit. You'll still end up with the degree. A vast majority of employers don't care what grades you got at uni, just that you end up with the degree.

I can choose whether I go to bed at 8pm or midnight. A mother with a 2 month old will take sleep whenever she gets it! I can choose what day to do my groceries. A parent who has to take Jim to soccer & Lucy to piano lessons on Monday and Julia to ballet on Wednesday and all 3 kids to youthgroup on Friday has more limited options. I only have to do one load of laundry every two or three days (that's for two people). I know my mother usually does at least one load a day. Sometimes she'll let it go a bit longer and then she'll have to do two or three loads in a day. (When I lived at home, she had 6 people to wash for).

Marrieds, especially parents, have a whole lot of responsibilities thrown at them that they can't rearrange, say yes or no to. Most of a single's responsibilities can be rearranged or said no/yes to. Elizabeth H (Russia)'s comment understood this perfectly.

Yes you're missing things that parents have. The OP pastor is not saying you're not. He's discussing one little part about being single - the autonomy and freedom to be flexible that you have. He's not saying that makes your life better than that of a parent. It's not a "grass is greener" issue because he's not acting as if your life is so much better than his. He's discussing one aspect of life as a single as opposed to life as a married/parent.

I also noticed several single commenters feeling the need to defend perfectly legitimate "busyness". If your busyness stems from the way you are serving your church, that's great! That's fine! There's no need to defend that! But it's when you claim you can't serve because you're so busy that the question mark pops up. Don't let defensiveness get in the way of properly reading the article. Don't automatically think that just coz you're single, the OP must be talking about you. He's talking about singles who claim "too busy" when they're not (especially compared to people with kids).

IMO (70) is spot on. I think many commenters allowed that hyperbolic comment - “If you’re single, you aren’t busy" - to colour their view of the entire article, disregarding the fact that the author immediately goes on to give a very good explanation that basically said "ok, well obviously that isn't totally true, but here is my point..."

And yes of course you have responsibilities. Of course you have to do groceries, laundry, and cleaning. The OP is not saying you have NO responsibilities. Just far fewer than my hypothetical aforementioned mother.

April - 59 - you have to be kidding if you honestly think the majority of people wasting time on Facebook are not singles.

When it comes down to it, the OP was saying that due to a single's autonomy, he/she is in more position to control their busyness than a married/parent is.

[100. Paul said the following at 5:52 AM on Jan 8:]

100

Ted (#81),

"I think Bob's clinging to the term "busyness" is unhelpful. There's probably a more accurate term -- maybe "autonomy" -- to describe the point he's trying to make, as some have pointed out here.

I think there's a subtlety there that is entirely dependent on his (mis)use of the word "busyness". His point seems to go further than "if you're single you have more autonomy" to "you're not busy if you're doing something that you've chosen to do".

Bob does make a very valid point about the ability of an individual to make selfish choices. He then goes on to say "marriage kills selfishness", which would be worth discussing further. I can't speak from experience, but I suspect a selfish single would be inclined to form a self-interested couple and raise an inward-looking family.

I would argue that a better point would be that people at any stage of life should be careful to devote both their independence and their relationships to the service of God's will.