Bromances Gone Wild | Boundless Line

Bromances Gone Wild
by Ted Slater on 01/25/2010 at 2:56 PM

So I've heard the same thing from two different people in two different states. The guys in their class or singles group seem overly affectionate with each other, sometimes even feigning homosexual interest.

A few weeks ago I may have seen a hint of this at church: A high school guy, whom I don't believe experiences same-sex attraction, was acting peculiarly effeminate in his interactions with the guys in the worship band during practice. He was light-hearted about it; I'm just not sure why he'd joke about something like that.

I'm interested in better understanding this phenomenon, and may even solicit an article or blog post on it. But I just haven't seen it enough to really know what's going on, or to know if it's widespread.

Maybe guys nowadays have just grown so comfortable with each other that they feel free to express their affection in an overly physical way, kind of like the way pro football players pat each other on the bottoms. Or maybe they're looking to each other for emotional connections because it's "safer" than looking for a meaningful relationship with a woman. Or maybe they're indeed experiencing sexual ambiguity, and experimenting with homosexual behavior, something that's become less taboo over the past decades? I honestly don't know.

Have you seen this in your singles group or among your single guy friends? If so, please describe what you've seen and what you think about it. If you'd rather not leave a comment here, you're free to e-mail me directly at editor@boundless.org

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1. BDB said the following at 3:06 PM on Jan 25:

I remember 20 years ago reading one of those newspaper advice columns in the newspaper. I forget which one. A women wrote in for advice in determining if her husband was homosexual. One of their questions was whether he was shaving his chest...

At my Bible study recently, I observed how often the church seemed to suggest that men shoud be like women and "just listen" instead of offering solutions. I suggested that at the next marriage retreat, one of the speakers ought to tell the women that they should instead be more like men and fix the problem instead of being emotional about it...

Yes, I was just stirring the pot...and admittedly, if they actually did that at a marriage conference, it would probably hurt ticket sales...

2. obewan said the following at 3:40 PM on Jan 25:

My college roommate used to joke around doing gay poses or voice imitations. For him it was just a way of blowing off steam and acting out some college crazies. It never became physical and he met and married his wife at the Christian college we attended and went on to live a very normal life. I still wonder whether it was appropriate or not. Basically, he made fun of gays in a silly Walt Disney G rated sort of way..."say there big fella, how ya doin"...with a lisp kind of stuff...

3. Anna said the following at 4:16 PM on Jan 25:

Guys in my church do this kind of thing a lot. Not all of them, but certainly a fair few of them. They have a game called the States game I think, where they get more and more inappropriate as each one names a state. The first to stop loses, which means it can go pretty far - starting tamely by having their hands on each other's knees, or around one another's shoulder. It ends when one feels it's too far, which in my opinion is always waaaay too far. Sitting on one another's laps is also a common occurance amongst some of my guy friends. I'm sure I could come up with more. This, by the way, is in Scotland, and those involved are from Scotland, Ireland and various States of America.

4. farmer Tom said the following at 4:26 PM on Jan 25:

I've always found these kinds of behavior to be questionable.

If it is inappropriate for a Christian guy to make sexually suggestive jokes or act in a sexually suggestive manner to Christian women, and I think we can all agree that is true? Why is acting in a sexually deviant suggestive manner to a member of the same gender an acceptable thing?

I was deeply offended by a single gal in our singles fellowship who was constantly patting me on the back, rubbing my shoulders, even patting me on the butt. If I had acted in that manner I would be rightly accused of sexual harassment. Because you do these things to someone of the same gender, it's ok? I'm not buying that.

5. rachel said the following at 4:31 PM on Jan 25:

I think young men being more physically and emotionally affectionate with each other is great! But I agree with the previous poster--acting effeminate is often a silly mask for insecurity.

6. Texas Craig said the following at 4:34 PM on Jan 25:

BDB (#1):

I know it is slightly off-topic, but I have always wondered why men are the ones instructed to learn to listen and to express their emotions more, in an effort to improve their relationship with their wife/girlfriend. It seems like women should be told the advice you mentioned (and to quit their "bellyaching" and realize how bad people really have it throughout the world when they start complaining)(that was an exaggeration for humor, so please no flames!)

I wonder if men are expected to do more because the Bible says wives are the "weaker vessel?" That is a serious question and not meant to cause an argument. But, I do think the phenomenon BDB mentions is common--namely men are told to be more like women in certain areas, but rarely are women told to be more like men.

7. Lia said the following at 4:39 PM on Jan 25:

And? So? If they're gay, they're gay, and apparently still going to your church. If they're not, they're not. I don't see why this is a big problem.

8. Stephen said the following at 4:56 PM on Jan 25:

To a more mild extent this is relatively common among some of the guys in my youth group. But rather than be a crude way of poking fun at gays, it seems to be more about just loosening up a bit around each other and, as obewan (#2) pointed out, acting out "college (or just youthful) crazies".

I definitely think there is a thin line between humour and simply being crass (as a recent Boundless article so excellently pointed out), which gets even thinner on the often sensitive subject of a person's sexual orientation. It's where you have to show some self control, think about what you are going to say before saying it, and, if you think it may be better left unsaid, leave it unsaid.

Which brings me to the next thing I wanted to bring up. Obviously this type of jesting is not going to fly with many people, and I've noticed the guys in my youth group demonstrate good refrain with regards to who they joke around. You can often tell by simple body language if someone is going to laugh or be offended. That makes it sound like the humour should be scratched entirely because it has the potential to offend some people, but I've witnessed in-jokes of a much tamer nature offend just as easily.

Ted, you wrote:

>>Or maybe they're indeed experiencing sexual ambiguity, and experimenting with homosexual behavior<<

I for one (and I can, with reasonable confidence, speak for close friends I have seen using variations of the described behaviour) can assure you that I'm not experiencing sexual ambiguity, but can quite easily see how this type of joking around could be a cover for testing the same-sex attraction waters without raising any alarms.

9. Caroline said the following at 5:01 PM on Jan 25:

I observe lots of single guys at my college and the Christian guys at Reformed University Fellowship and church. I have not noticed any trend as disturbing as what you describe. The men of my generation may look more affectionate in their actions than men of previous generations (less gruff, more willing to talk about feelings, perhaps), but I would not describe their behavior as inspired by homosexuality or a desire to imitiate/mock homosexual behaviors.

I would point out that there is a big difference between expressing homosocial bonds (i.e. friendships) and acting out or implying homosexual attraction/desire. I know that traditionally, men are encouraged and/or expected to be more taciturn and averse to discussing feelings or emotions. There is a very, very big difference between discussing how one feels as well as a willingness to display affection/brotherly love towards a fellow man versus literal homosexuality.

10. Seung said the following at 5:02 PM on Jan 25:

hahaha! I personally do it all the time in our Bible study. I call it "bromance" it's the joke from the show "Scrubs." Basically, it's guys just being super comfortable with each other and with their sexuality. It's just another new joke in the media (movies and shows) just joke about it all the time. I have never thought about it seriously beyond just joking sense... we all just laugh about it. I do it quiet often... things like "I love you man, etc" but none of the sisters or even my elder seems to have any problem with it since it is very clear that it's just a joke. Of course, there are always boundaries and you wouldn't want to offend a homosexual person but we are pretty careful about it.

11. Keith said the following at 5:29 PM on Jan 25:

If you travel to many conservative Muslim countries you will regularly see men kissing each other on the cheek and giving each other extended hugs. Yet homosexuality is strictly condemned in those counties, and in some places it is even a capital offense.

Maybe those Muslim countries have it right, and WE need to redefine what is considered to be masculine and feminine.

12. Katie said the following at 5:34 PM on Jan 25:

I go to a small Christian college, and the "bromance" is rampant here! It's a joke on campus, but I speak for most of the girls on campus when I say that it makes us feel uncomfortable at times. It's great that guys feel safe enough to show friendly affection for one another. However, the overly long "hugs" make things really awkward at times. I don't think any of these guys are struggling with homosexual tendencies. I just wish they knew that all their joking around and expressing affection makes things extremely awkward for those people (especially girls) who have to watch.

13. Lost in the World said the following at 5:43 PM on Jan 25:

Y'know, this might be a good thing.

First, let me distinguish, as did #5, between being more physically and emotionally open and actually acting effeminate.

Secondly, I should point out that in non-western countries guys are *way* more physically comfortable with each other. In certain Muslim countries (where being gay still carries the death penalty), it is not at all unusual for a guy to throw his arm over a buddies shoulder, and lay his head on that bro's shoulder. Homosexuality is so far from the main stream that no one bats an eye at what would get whispers in a western country.

Thirdly, pre-trial of Oscar Wilde, there were very little problems with guys just being comfortable with other guys. After Wilde was convicted of "gross indecency" (AKA being gay)Western culture became a little too obsessed with keeping other guys at a distance.

Fourthly, the Bible carries precedent. The relationship between David and Jonathan (1 Samuel 18:1,3), far from having the sexual connotations that many liberal scholars allege was simply Bros being Bros. Why even the apostle whom Jesus loved was leaning on the bosom of the Christ at the last supper (John 13:23).

For too long men have been forced to keep their distance from other men because of a fear of being labeled "gay" or "un-manly" That is stupid. God gave the gift of friendship to men. Iron sharpening iron is, by necessity an up close and personal business.

14. lindsey said the following at 5:58 PM on Jan 25:

Different cultures express friendship and fondness differently.

Similar to comment #11, Indian men hold each others' hands and are quite touchy-feely with each other. This behavior seems to be a common expression of friendship for them. Having lived a year there, I think that there's nothing wrong with it.

In friendship, women are generally more physically affectionate with each other as well. Few question that in the U.S. So why is there concern for men?

Instead of being concerned about this behavior, let's celebrate friendship instead of worrying about it.

15. S said the following at 6:02 PM on Jan 25:

I think what you're describing is immaturity.

16. Fireforged said the following at 6:11 PM on Jan 25:

Personally I do not joke like this and I do not encourage the men I hang around with to joke like this. I lead a small group on the one of the most populated campuses in the U.S. and deal with homosexuality on at least a monthly basis. While my church does not affirm homosexuality we believe in welcoming people of all ages, races, and sexual orientation with love and respect. Joking about homosexuality does not line up with that goal.

17. Carol said the following at 6:18 PM on Jan 25:

Several men that I know act this way at times. I agree with Katie (#12). I don't think that these guys are closet homosexuals, but it sure makes me uncomfortable to watch them "acting gay."

18. SaraL said the following at 6:21 PM on Jan 25:

I don't quite understand what you mean...what exactly are they doing? I mean, many men from other cultures are more comfortable expressing themselves physically with their male counterparts. Perhaps it is a new cultural movement in North America. Plus, Bromances themselves are nothing new... Jesus and John, David and Jonathan.

However, I do think same-sex attraction between men is a lot less taboo. I know many more bisexual men then I used to, and shows like Torchwood frequently feature male-male dating and sexual relationships.

19. Collin said the following at 6:28 PM on Jan 25:

Greet the brothers with a holy kiss! It's Biblical. I have a friend who literally kisses his guy friends on the forehead or cheek because of that verse. And he is a huge football player for whom I was a groomsman in his wedding a few weeks ago. And he is going into ministry! It's pretty hillarious in my opinion. I know this doesn't have anything to do really with the kinds of behavior you're talking about.

(I saw tons of that kind of stuff through high school. Mostly with athletic, confident guys, none of whom have embraced anything close to homosexuality. They were just trying to be funny and outrageous I think.)

20. EM said the following at 6:36 PM on Jan 25:

I've seen this in high school and college a lot. I don't think I ever thought it was really homosexual tendencies...just boys joking and teasing about a highly controversial subject that would garner them attention for their stunts. I think also guys are getting the message from the media that bromances are ok and thus more feel comfortable expressing themselves in this manner.

21. BDB said the following at 6:41 PM on Jan 25:

Texas Craig - #6 - I'm pretty sure it's an American cultural thing, with no Biblical backup.

But I'm much more confident saying it out loud after having managed a large staff of women. Because frankly, they had to get the money right before depositing it. The female mangers and supervisors were quite strict, none of this "feelings" stuff.

The rule of thumb was, "It doesn't matter if you cry, you still have to balance your batch before you drop it into the safe. Here's a tissue, go re-run your tape."

But yes, I know I was spoiled because women in accounting are on the less emotional side of the scale. They Want the Math to Work.

22. Ultraviolet said the following at 7:08 PM on Jan 25:

I saw this a lot in my youth group, and also among my friends now. It's not at all to test out the "homosexual waters" or to find replace meaningful relationships with women. Almost every guy I know who has done that has a girlfriend (I'm one of their girlfriends! :D) or are married even. It's just a way to joke about homosexuality/homophobia. The joke is supposed to be that it does make things uncomfortable, or that it's so contrary to their sexuality.

23. jack said the following at 7:09 PM on Jan 25:

Too much rejection from impossible-to-please women could very well be causing the bottled-up emotional nature of some men to escape in this manner (which is probably inappropriate for Christian men).

Pressurized contents eventually escape in one way or another. If Christian women are actively shunning all but the "best" males, well...

So, while many quite average-looking women wait for prince charming to come along and provide them with redemption from the horror of averageness (think Twilight), we have the totally confused and beaten-down men playing faux gay with each other. Great.

For whatever reason, I'm reminded of Isaiah 3:12-18 and Isaiah 4:1.

Of course, this does not apply to the women who truly love Christ. But it sure applies to a lot of Church Girls.

24. Justice said the following at 7:14 PM on Jan 25:

i didnt bother reading everyone's posts, but ive seen this since i was in HS in the late 90's, and around Christians. It's not a big deal, and in fact, in other cultures, it's normal. Dont freak out.

25. David in Cambridge said the following at 7:20 PM on Jan 25:

Deep and affectionate relationships have been the norm for most of human history. It is only in fairly recent history that physical contact between men has become taboo. I, for one, welcome a shift away from this idea that intimate male friendships are an expression of homosexuality. It is an idea that has been pushed by secularists in an attempt to show that homosexuality is both normal and common, even going as far as reinterpreting ancient friendships between men as homosexual ones, like David and Jonathan. Was the behavior in question more affectionate than 2 Samuel 1:26:

"Your love [Jonathan] for me [David] was wonderful,
more wonderful than that of a woman."

Or more sexual ambiguous (by modern American standards) than 1 Samuel 20:41:

"Then they [David and Jonathan] kissed each other and wept together."

Physical contact between close friends was common and valued before it became reinterpreted as sexual. For futher reading, I would also turn your attention to an article posted on the website ArtOfManliness.com promoted in one of the Boundless podcasts.

I did not see the particular behavior in question, but I would caution all believers against perpetuating a purely cultural construction (of dubious origins) that runs against what has been honored and treasured in both history and the Bible.

26. Ruth said the following at 7:43 PM on Jan 25:

I've noticed the same thing!
At my youth group, we had human videos and one group did it to a Taylor Swift song, with two guys acting out the romantic leads. It make everyone laugh and I didn't feel like it was inappropriate (they didn't even hug or anything).
I've seen among girls my age (I'm a senior in high school), and my friends and I sometimes joke around lightheartedly - for example, my friend needed to draw a portrait for her art class and my other friend volunteered to model, joking she would even model "in the nude."
While we may joke around, we're all good Christian girls who would never do anything in appropriate with a guy, much less a girl.
I think humor like that is okay, as long as you are EXTREMELY careful with the context and how far you take it.

27. HT said the following at 7:43 PM on Jan 25:

At my old church in California before I moved to go to school in Utah, it seemed like every guy between 14 and 30 liked to "play gay." (That's what I called it!) It was annoying at times, and lots of girls actually did the same thing (with other girls). I'd kind of forgotten about it...it's not the norm out here at all with my secular, LDS, or Christian friends. At least not that I've noticed! Now vampire obsession on the other hand... haha.

28. SirTurtle said the following at 7:45 PM on Jan 25:

There's a great deal of effeminate behavior in the modern church. As a guy I don’t feel the need to be touched in those ways buy other men. I’ve had to physically discourage young men my age at college from joking around with me in that way.

I think that a great problem in the modern church is that men are not encouraged to be men. They are encouraged to be women. This shows up in ways that affect marriage/dating relationships, leadership, and Christian music.
The “gay” behavior by young men

is only a symptom of a larger cultural problem. If I may quote A.W. Pink;
How different is the God of the Bible from the God of modern Christendom! The conception of Deity which prevails most widely today, even among those who profess to give heed to the Scriptures, is a miserable caricature, a blasphemous travesty of the Truth. The God of the twentieth century is a helpless, effeminate being who commands the respect of no really thoughtful man. The God of the popular mind is the creation of a maudlin sentimentality. The God of many a present-day pulpit is an object of pity rather than of awe-inspiring reverence. To say that God the Father has purposed the salvation of all mankind, that God the Son died with the express intention of saving the whole human race, and that God the Holy Spirit is now seeking to win the world to Christ; when, as a matter of common observation, it is apparent that the great majority of our fellow-men are dying in sin, and passing into a hopeless eternity: is to say that God the Father is disappointed, that God the Son is dissatisfied, and that God the Holy Spirit is defeated. We have stated the issue baldly, but there is no escaping the conclusion. To argue that God is “trying His best” to save all mankind, but that the majority of men will not let Him save them, is to insist that the will of the Creator is impotent, and that the will of the creature is omnipotent. To throw the blame, as many do, upon the Devil, does not remove the difficulty, for if Satan is defeating the purpose of God, then, Satan is Almighty and God is no longer the Supreme Being.

29. Ev said the following at 7:52 PM on Jan 25:

I was on a college choir tour a couple years ago and it was the first time I had seen guys interacting so openly with eachother- sitting on each other's laps, sleeping on eachother's shoulders etc. They said that in the midst of a bus full of girls they "couldn't touch" they could at least touch their guy friends. I don't get it, and it makes me uncomfortable. I see such affection as a feminine trait, but maybe things are changing.. ?

30. Marie said the following at 7:59 PM on Jan 25:

A lot of my guy friends at my (Christian) college did the talk-in-a-"fruity"-voice-about-fashion thing, just to goof off, and it was pretty clear that they were joking (and often, it was quite hilarious).

There were even some that would go around giving those extended hugs and other PDA's that would be considered harmless for a Christian dating couple. A few, though, would do things with each other that would be considered inappropriate public behavior regardless of gender or marital status. I don't think they were experimenting with their sexuality so much as showing off and trying to get attention, especially since those same guys tended to show off in many, many other ways (ex: walking around shirtless when girls came to visit, yelling loudly and tackling other guys when girls were watching, etc.)

At best, those guys are mildly amusing, and at worst, they're downright disgusting.

31. PM said the following at 8:08 PM on Jan 25:

I've been seeing this kind of behavior in guys for years, and, make no mistake, among girls too. I've been the uncomfortable witness of a lot of my girl friends doing the same thing, except it is almost always verbal, unlike the guys who make it physical.
You can find millions of pictures of guys doing that kind of stuff on facebook. It's not hard to find.

32. Emily said the following at 8:23 PM on Jan 25:

In my campus ministry, "bromance" is huge. However, I never thought of it as a problem. I actually like it! It encourages the guys to become close to each other - the older men mentor the younger ones, and you can really see the effects - the younger men look up to their older mentors, and imitate them in really positive ways.

Because we spend a lot of time on conferences and retreats, often the guys have to share beds, and many share bathrooms in rented houses/apartments. Of course, they're going to be close!

Honestly, as long as the joking doesn't turn sexual in nature or derogatory, I don't see any problem with "bro-mances". It's fellowship!

33. Bryce said the following at 8:31 PM on Jan 25:

I don't have a problem with the ladies at church saying "I love you" to each other and giving each other hugs. Extended hugs might be slightly awkward, but not inappropriate.
I think this standard can be applied to men as well.

Making fun of/imitating gays either by word or action is not character we should be developing. Causing our sisters to stumble by watching our actions (as Katie @ #12 mentioned) is likewise something we should avoid. But I don't believe we can come up with a list of actions that are 'right' and those that are 'wrong'. The best we can do is to follow the principles in the Bible (generally conducting all our actions with holiness, and with the knowledge that they will be judged), and follow the spirit of the above two guidelines.

34. Mark W said the following at 8:32 PM on Jan 25:

This was and is a very common occurrence at my university fellowship group.

"Maybe guys nowadays have just grown so comfortable with each other that they feel free to express their affection in an overly physical way, kind of like the way pro football players pat each other on the bottoms. Or maybe they're looking to each other for emotional connections because it's "safer" than looking for a meaningful relationship with a woman. Or maybe they're indeed experiencing sexual ambiguity, and experimenting with homosexual behavior, something that's become less taboo over the past decades?"

99.9% of the time, none of the above. It's a joke. It's done for humor value and nothing more. The problem is, it can be extremely offensive to guys who have struggled or are struggling w/ homosexual thoughts/feelings.

I've participated in the bromance joking before, and once realized I did it in front of a friend who had come out of the homosexual lifestyle and I felt AWFUL about it. I was the only person in the group who knew that about him, and when I should have been rebuking the guys for what they were doing, I was participating in it. Though he never confronted me about it, I could tell he was hurt by the look on his face.

This is why it's generally not a good idea to do this period. While it can be uncomfortable even for people who've never struggled with homosexuality, it's extremely painful, demeaning, and offensive for those who have. And you may not know who those people are.

35. Matthew Jones said the following at 8:35 PM on Jan 25:

After reading the Self-Made Man, I found it much easier to communicate and spend time with men over women (in fact, I haven't dated since reading the book). But as far as "bromance" goes, most of the statements are meant as light jokes. We also tend to avoid such playful behavior at church due to the elders around, but I fail to see how men bonding is seen as a problem.

Even my father commented one time that he was highly envious at my generation of men and our ability to emotionally bond with each other. In the past, as he claimed, many men married for that sole purpose, now something men have other men for.

Yes, and holy kisses were once the domain of ancient Christians.

36. Chris said the following at 8:39 PM on Jan 25:

Shhh.....nobody tell Amir. This will totally ruin his day.....;^)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bromance

37. Matt said the following at 8:46 PM on Jan 25:

Yep, there have definitely been male friends that have engaged in this sort of activity. Or similar to the States game they play "gay chicken" where you keep going more that direction until someone finally gives up.

In a simlair way, they enjoy playing a game where they toss balls or objects at each others "junk". Makes no sense to me, but they all are extremely happy when playing it.

38. JenFromMA said the following at 8:48 PM on Jan 25:

Anna (#3)

YAY SCOTLAND!!!! I spent all last year abroad at St. Andrews and absolutely fell in love with everything about it.

39. AJB said the following at 9:14 PM on Jan 25:

In response to #1

I think women should be like women and men should be like men. God created us and designed our emotions. Men and women are wired differently. There's a reason marriage is between a man and a woman. It balances things out. I think the approach should be how to be a better woman or how to be a better man, not how to act more like someone of the opposite sex.

40. sarah elizabeth said the following at 9:23 PM on Jan 25:

its a cultural generational thing. I would say likely predominant in the high school/college/young adult age. Being a young adult myself (25) and having gone to a christian University (not a super conservative one though), I have seen this a lot. THe term bromance is the new term to describe it. For the most part, its guys just being more comfortable each other and making a joke/having a good time. To some degree, I think its rebelling against the previous (American) notion that guys werent allowed to be affectionate with each other at all. After all, I bet many of us see the same double standard...girls can play with each others hair, give massages, rub shoulders and hug each other a lot and no one thinks anything of it, right (unless of course, its REALLY extreme or something), yet if guys start to do anything of the sort, the immediate assumption is that they are gay or something is wrong with them. I think this generation is saying lets debunk that! While they may not always do it in the right manner or display it properly (give them a break...were talking about college guys here...they are still young and have some growing up to do), I think the idea behind it makes sense.

41. sarah elizabeth said the following at 9:28 PM on Jan 25:

oh and Farmer Tom-just to mention, I completely agree that that woman in your singles group behavior was innappropiate! There is no reason for either gender to be overly touchy. Hugs, holding hands during prayer...whatever. back/shoulder rubs, hitting on the rear, etc. completely inapropiate.

42. Lucy G. said the following at 9:54 PM on Jan 25:

I think it might just be a way for men to prove that they're NOT gay. I know some guys in my college group who behave "effeminately" to specifically prove that it's not true. It's sort of a "I'm so manly I can wear pink" kind of bravado. And it's also a way to say that they think being gay is a joke--and gay men are a punchline. In this way, they feel that they are proving their masculinity.

43. Julie said the following at 10:11 PM on Jan 25:

Keith, you said exactly what was on my mind! I live in China, and although homosexuality is technically illegal yet becoming more accepted, the general populace overwhelmingly views it as deviant behavior. The boys in my classes (I'm a middle/high school teacher) are very affectionate with each other - touching each others' hair/faces, sharing chairs, etc - and it isn't viewed as sexual or abnormal in any way for males to be affectionate as normal behavior.

I think the joking about bromances is popular because it's acknowledging in a funny way insecurities guys have with "feelings" and stuff like that. It's probably poking fun at something our culture says is weird, yet Christian guys ought to do more often. But to mock effeminacy just serves to ostracize people who need Jesus, doesn't it? And inappropriate touching in a way our culture would define as sexual just isn't pleasing to God.

Personally, jokes about bromances aren't offensive to me and can be quite funny, but talking in a high voice and mocking guys who like fashion is offensive. I guess I think they're two different animals. All of these comments are so interesting to read! Interesting topic!

44. Chris said the following at 11:05 PM on Jan 25:

I keep reading post and, one could say, I have come to a different conclusion. I am the affectionate guy every talks about I'll hug all my friends just to show fondness and joy when I see them. The conclusion is not the act of "bromance"(I'm a scrubs fan), but the discernment to know when to engage in it. Katie just said that it makes the girls at her campus uncomfortable, so two things need to happen. Katie and some of her friends need to tell these guys it make them uncomfortable, and second the guys need to knock it off.

This is not to say that guys can't be affectionate in private and when around other guys this just means we as men must respect the feelings of the women around us. This, in the long run, is a relatively easy thing for us not to do around the women in our lives. Just as there are certain conversations that men have with each other and not in front of women, so too we must also realize that there is some behavior, that even though we know is completely innocent, that should be only acted out around other guys.

45. Ted Slater said the following at 11:21 PM on Jan 25:

I do appreciate all the feedback. Thank you for sharing your personal experiences of guys expressing affection, or expressing some sort of "affection," for other guys. I do hope we get more comments on this topic.

I should mention that a few years ago I spent a couple of months in Colombia. While there, I saw -- and experienced -- male-male affection. I saw guys walking down the street with arms around each other as friends, and that behavior was culturally affirmed. It was clear that they were not "mariposas," but intimate friends.

I personally experienced that kind of personal touch, and cherished it. We're missing something here in the States that those in other cultures experience -- a kind of engagement/touch/affection/connection just not found among friends of the same sex here in the States.

That said, that's not really what I'm talking about in my original post. I'm talking about a pseudo-gay, sexually-tinged interaction between Christian men that seems to meet some need in them and seems to disgust discerning women.

My question, restated: Have you seen that in your singles group, and if so, what do you think of that kind of interaction? To me, it seems to say, "Women, we don't need you after all; we've got each other. Ha ha!"

Finally, I do want to reiterate that this post is not meant to be contentious. I'm sincerely puzzled, and wanting to understand this phenomenon better, and am truly eager to hear your stories and thoughts ...

46. Jake said the following at 11:31 PM on Jan 25:

comment 15 I agree

47. Courtney said the following at 11:46 PM on Jan 25:

Perhaps the reason for this is that homosexuality, being not only a sin but the unknown, holds a sort of fascination for youth. I cannot relate at all to the sort of humour that degrades others or uplifts the shameful but I have found among my own circle that this is common if left unchecked.

I think in particular of an example about 2 years ago when my youth group collectively decided that an amusing passtime would be for one of us to call a sexual health clinic for teens and pretend to be gay, informing the hapless nurse at the other end how they have struggled with discrimination, fantasies etc. all under the roof of an elders house at the conclusion of a bible study!

I now regret, though I had no party in it, that I did not do more to stop it once I realised what was happening. But the point of this illustration is that, in my experience, more and more young adults and teens are falling prey to this most God-dishonouring practice and perhaps it needs to be further addressed in the Church.

48. Peter said the following at 12:30 AM on Jan 26:

Ted.

I'm reminded of the time - on this forum - in which I had to argue very strongly that a man did not have to be homophobic (to have an unhealthy fear of...) to object to appearing homosexual. It seems that there is a lot of societal pressure for young men to (a) not reject homosexuality and (b) relate emotionally in the same way that women do.

Those who think that this is OK, should ponder a few things.

- Just because they do something differently in another culture, does not make it better. Consider the scriptural injunction to not let the world conform us to itself.

- Just because women interact a certain way, does not make it wise for men to immitate them. Men are wired differently, and it does not require physical intimacy for us to be emotionally close to each other.

- Scripture states that we should avoid the appearance of evil. "Playing gay" is no more appropriate amongst Christians than any other form of crude, sexualised joking. The same women here who are accepting of this behaviour would be scandalised if the same level of sexual humour was directed at them.

- When men are concerned, sex is never just a matter of humour. The underlying desire is always there, even if masked. Talking about being "comfortable" with sexuality in this context ignores the constancy and intensity as experienced by young men.

- There are a proportion of Christian young men who struggle with Same Sex Attraction(SSA). For them it is not a joke, any more than normalising any other form of sinful behaviour is a joke to people who struggle in that area .

49. Brx said the following at 12:45 AM on Jan 26:

Ted,

I would imagine male youth pastors with several observant years of contact-hours under their belt would be best equipped to answer this one well. And, I'd expect it to vary amongst regions and culture.

For the most part I see, young guys in typical American culture will horse around, act goofy and/or stereo-typical homosexual, and do playfully gross things to oddly embarass, bond with, and affirm each other, as well as provoke a rise from young women who might be known to be present. Yes, I think the 'normal' stuff is kind of related to the football teammate kind of affection - and locker-room antics.

It's the abnormal stuff that a wise and discerning youth/young-adults minister/mentor should be looking for because it might belie a more serious problem that he is in a position to help address. I am not claiming to be such a wise minister, but more that I greatly admire the older/wiser ones I have observed in action.

I will confess, being somewhat of a manly yet sort of insecure male, I was challenged and felt a bit uncomfortable when on a trauma counseling mission in Uganda, some of the older teen boys wanted to hold my hand just walking around in public. However, that's part of the culture there - adult males holding hands is a public symbol of friendship, not a homosexual thing. [also, practicing homosexuality is illegal in Uganda and not at all an accepted part of the culture - though of course, there is some male prostitution]

Grace, peace, discernment and courage in initiating meaninful discussion with those who might be going too-far with underlying issues that need to be addressed.

50. Brx said the following at 12:55 AM on Jan 26:

RE: BDB #1,

Awesome marriage conference suggestion! I'd like to see the speaker say that and pause long enough to see the "huh? hmmmm... well..." expressions on many of the ladies. :>

I doubt it would hurt repeat sales at all if the speaker then went on to teach about healthy two-way communication.

Grace, peace & listening

...right as I may be, listening is often more peaceful...

51. Melissa said the following at 1:49 AM on Jan 26:

Ted, thank you for restating your question. I am glad that men feel more freedom to have deeper friendships with one another. As far as the "bromance" thing goes- it is a little unsettling to see. I don't know what to say when I see it. If guys feel that this extension of friendship-"bromance" can be used as a replacement for the desire for a wife...wow. And to be fair, if I as a woman decide that my relationships with other women fulfill me in such a way that I decide they are good alternatives to a husband- somebody pinch me! Hard!

52. ZacIssacs said the following at 2:25 AM on Jan 26:

To answer Mr. Slater's original and restated question, I have noticed this trend in several Churches and small groups, and I think it is partially related to another trend. That is, that many Churches try to force intimacy, rather then let it grow naturally. When I join a singles or other small group, I am expected on the first meeting to share very personal information after only knowing the other members for an hour or two. While a tight-knit community is a very good thing, it has to grow to be authentic. Having a complete stranger assume I will share private struggles right off the bat is just as odd to me as this new trend of being all 'touchy-feely' just for it's own sake, and not as part of a natural and deep friendship.

TL:DR?

True affection = Good
False affection = Bad

53. DC said the following at 3:18 AM on Jan 26:

Chris #44

Although I am not a touchy feely type with my male friends. I think it would be tragic for the guys that are, in genuninely innocent ways as you suggest, to refrain in fear of offending women.

Flip things around, should girls refrain from hugging their friends in fear it may offend the sensibilites of the males around them? Yeah, I dont think anyone would agree to that.

I just dont think it wise by any means for men to always defer to the wishes of women when it comes to emotional expression.

54. khalil said the following at 3:18 AM on Jan 26:

#11, Keith

And in many of those Muslim countries, homosexuality in the context of younger men, can be seen as sexual experimentation and is something that allows women to keep their honor. Yes, it is technically condemned but often you may see families turn a blind eye towards the youth and young adults that engage in such behavior. In considering a physical, sexual release between a young man or a young woman, there is likely less shame in being caught in a homosexual tryst…but it does depend on the country and circumstances. I can speak more on Lebanon, but there is a strong GLBT community in Beirut and a movement towards making these choices in lifestyle legal. There are even bookstores that openly promote and "educate" others regarding these issues.

In many Muslim/Middle Eastern countries there is a lot less personal space and more affection between members of the same sex, it isn't just limited to men. BUT I don't think looking toward those cultures on how to redefine masculinity and femininity is completely wise…consider the extreme forms of "modesty" that are oppressively placed upon women while men have free reign to visit prostitutes and behave as they see fit.

From a personal point of view, I don't particularly care for this whole "bromance" thing and think that the pseudo-homosexual behavior is distracting and quite immature, esp. when adult men act in such ways.

55. MrsLarijani said the following at 5:10 AM on Jan 26:

I saw some of this in college (conservative, Christian, dormitory halls separated by gender). Ironically enough, the behavior came from some of the most testosterone-charged dormitory halls.

There was even one guys' hall that would, once a year, steal clothing from a girls' hall and then wear different pieces to dinner that night.

Nobody ever accused them of being homosexuals. Ever. Most of the student body thought it was hilarious. The vast majority of them, from what I have seen of the years, have gone on to live productive, godly lives.

We all do stupid stuff when we're dealing with over-charged hormones with no real outlets.

However . . .

Since when does Scripture ever give us an "out" for stupid behavior? Is this not something that we are called to repent of? Didn't Paul say that we shouldn't sin so that grace may abound?

One argument that I don't like is "other cultures do it". I hate to sound like an over-bearing mother, but if other cultures jumped off a bridge, would you do it too?

56. Kiwi Bloke said the following at 6:13 AM on Jan 26:

I think it's important here to make the distinction between a guy being genuinely and sincerely affectionate with another guy, compared to a guy who is just "playing gay" or acting/talking effeminately. From all the comments posted here so far, it's clear that some people are talking about the one (and saying it's not wrong), while others are talking about the other (and saying that it's wrong), and we need to make the distinction about what exactly we're discussing.

As a general rule I think the former is fine - ie. a guy being geniunely affectionate with another guy - at least as long as the one guy is not making the other guy uncomfortable. But I think anyone observing him ought to be able to tell that he's being genuine - he's not merely acting affectionately to the other guy in order to induce a laugh or to mock homosexuals or show off or something - he's making a genuine and non-sexual show of affection to his buddy. This should be fairly obvious to anyone watching, or anyone who knows him. And it might simply be a case of putting his arm around his buddy or greeting him with a hug or something. I have some guy friends who do that with me (I'm a guy too) and actually it's nice - it makes me feel wanted and valued as a friend.

However, the latter - "playing gay" or being effeminate, especially when it's done all the time - is another story altogether. I think this is what Ted Slater is referring to, and I can't see anything appropriate in such behaviour. This is done only for laughs or to show off or perhaps in some attempt to prove one's "manliness". Frankly, I think most people who act this way (as described in some of the previous posts) are doing so out of insecurity. There is an obvious sexual overtone to such behaviour (which is what distinguishes it from the former), and the guys acting this way are not at all being genuine or authentic - they're "pretending" to be something/someone they're not. They wouldn't act like that normally. I think such behaviour is wrong for the Christian, firstly because it makes light of something (homosexual behaviour) that God considers to be a sin - and we walk on ice when we mock sin in such a way - and secondly because we risk deeply offending those around us who actually are struggling with same-sex attraction - and we might not even know which of our friends struggle with that.

In any case, I do think that the difference between the two is clear to anyone observing. You can just tell if someone is being authentically and appropriately affectionate or if they are "playing gay". One crosses the line, the other doesn't.

57. Bernie said the following at 7:04 AM on Jan 26:

It's things like this, and extended adolescence that makes Christian women seriously start considering dating non-Christians. Where are the leaders stepping in and teaching these guys how to be men, avoid even the appearance of evil, and not compromising in their sexuality?

This just sounds like more aftermath from a fatherless generation, and it's sad.

58. Daniel said the following at 7:11 AM on Jan 26:

My definition of bromance makes me think of something more on the lines of friends I made in the military. If you ever want a good idea on love, understand how a soldier feels for the man next to him. There is no judging, no worldly drama made priority by personal baggage, no lashing out at each other... just understanding... and knowing that the person right next to you is there to count on as a teammate, friend, brother, completely independent person sacrificing for you as you would for him.

There is no coddling, trick questions to make someone lie to you, if you deserve criticism you get it, and you would do the same for them because of love for one another. Woman would learn well and do good in a relationship to study and understand this.

59. Loris said the following at 7:19 AM on Jan 26:

BDB #1, Why shouldn't women be told to get a hold of their emotions and why shouldn't men to be told to express theirs? It drives me nuts when I see an out of control woman getting a free pass because she supposedly can't help it. No, she knows she's behaving like a crazy person, and she knows she'll probably get away with it.

And occasionally you get a crossed wire. My husband is the moody venter; I'm the restrained fixer. We joke all the time that we should swap bodies.

As far as bromance goes, I see it only among young men who have known each other forever. They joke around with silly antics so they don't have to articulate how they feel about their close friends. It's funny sometimes, and inappropriate other times, but as long as it doesn't go overboard, I don't think it's a big deal.

60. jayme said the following at 7:35 AM on Jan 26:

I think it's saying: "I'm a guy. I'm immature. I like to make people feel uncomfortable, because I can. So I'll do what I can to make that happen. Maybe you'll laugh at me. But either way, I'll have your attention". Sometimes it comes in the form of gay joking. Sometimes in inappropriate jokes. Sometimes in flatulence.

61. Aeryn said the following at 8:00 AM on Jan 26:

I went looking through the boundless archives for a favorite article on a topic at least tangentially related. Sam Torode's "There's More Than One Kind of Kissing" (I think that's the title). I can't find it, or any of his wife Bethany's articles, either. The story of their Boundless-inspired engagement is still in the 10 Year Anniversary article, but they're just gone -- scrubbed out? Why? Did they get divorced or something? :-(

62. Katie A. said the following at 8:22 AM on Jan 26:

Seeing all these comments is a little scary to me. If guys are being so homosexual at church, or are just "joking" and "letting off steam" does that not de-sensitize us to the appearance of evil it is giving off? If we agree that homosexuality is sinful, why are we allowing ourselves to joke about something that is so serious? Especially at church? That's what is bothering me the most. Christians at church who are acting in a way that is obviously unacceptable. It's one thing for a guy to hug, but it's another to do so in a way that is sexual for one or both. If it's causing others to be uncomfortable, then you should avoid that behavior. Paul says if it causes a brother to fall for one to eat meat, then don't eat the meat! Same applies here I think.

63. Lore said the following at 8:24 AM on Jan 26:

I think David in Cambridge (25) is right on. While it might be tempting to judge the current propensity in guys to be more physical, I don't think we can avoid the reality that in Biblical times physical touch was not only the norm, it was probably expected.

I was just reading a memoir written by someone who grew up in the 60s and 70s and the whole time I was getting a fresh appreciation for the way my parents raised me (80s and 90s), even though many of their strict rules were in reaction to the rampant sin of their era. BUT I was also realizing that operating in high defense like that as a lifestyle perhaps isn't the most beneficial long term.

I'm bringing that up because we're all going to take baggage from something and maybe some of the uncomfortable reactions to physical touch among males is due to our culture's acceptance of homosexuality. But that doesn't mean we throw out what is meant to be good because it has been taken to an extreme in some ways. Larry Crabb (author of the book Connecting) says this: "One of Satan's favorite strategies is to come up with a close counterfeit of an important truth and allow the Christian community to spot the error. Christians then become so committed to staying away from it that they miss the truth it distorted."

In the subject at hand, as well as every other act a Christian participates in, we cannot apply legalism--that's satan's oldest trick! I don't think the question is whether physical touch among males (or females) is right, wrong, or up for discussion--the question is how are we showing love to one another and glorifying Christ with our bodies? In a secular culture that is increasingly comfortable with homosexuality, we glorify Christ by maintaining purity and a healthy appreciation of the human body. And in the sects of Christian culture that is increasingly wary of homosexuality (and dispositions towards), we glorify Christ by maintaining purity and a healthy appreciation of the human body (and its needs--who among us doesn't need a hug now and then?).

64. obewan said the following at 8:46 AM on Jan 26:

#23. jack said the following at 7:09 PM on Jan 25:

"Too much rejection from impossible-to-please women could very well be causing the bottled-up emotional nature of some men to escape in this manner (which is probably inappropriate for Christian men)."
----------------------------------
Amen to that.

I actually have one more story from later in life from my over age 40 church singles group.

The ratio is probably 2:1 women to men, and the women who are mostly less than average looking and quite portly are still “fussy”.

One of my bachelor friends who is quite wealthy and also good looking jokes in this manner. On more than one occasion he has taken to gay postures and said to me while posing as a “gay” man: "Well, I can't seem to get a date with any of these women, so it is just you and me big fella."

It never went beyond that, but he left the church singles group and has taken to meeting some very attractive women on the Internet who do not "reject" him so much.

I am still there but don’t get too stressed since my priority is more focused on fellowship than finding a wife.

65. Robert Hall said the following at 8:55 AM on Jan 26:

wow, talk about a non-issue.

66. anonymous said the following at 9:48 AM on Jan 26:

If I saw men interacting this way, I would have a very hard time ever seeing them in a romantic light.

That would be the ultimate turn off. (Not the brotherly affection but the silly, coy game. How inappropriate and disgusting). With the gender ambiguity that is already rampant in our culture, this is crossing the line.

I, an attractive, feminine, Christian woman would never consider such a man a potential husband. And I can pretty certainly say "never" on this one.

Yuck.

67. Ultraviolet said the following at 9:54 AM on Jan 26:

Ted, I’m not sure why you’re so insistent that this could be a way for guys to replace female relationships. All the people who have seen this happen or have participated in it have not reported that guys are moving exclusively to male-male relationships, or are joking with their guy friends letting their female relationships suffer. I’m not sure why a heterosexual guy would want to say "Women, we don't need you after all; we've got each other. Ha ha!" As a straight female, I would never in my life view my close female friendships as a replacement of the relationship I have with my boyfriend, or if I were single the desire for a boyfriend or husband.

68. Amir Larijani said the following at 9:56 AM on Jan 26:

Goodness! I'd never heard of a "bromance" before. Thanks for the laugh!

OTOH, I'd say that there is--in some of the men's ranks--an attempt at intimacy that is otherwise well-intended, that has been promoted by groups such as Promise Keepers.

I personally witnessed this, and saw both a positive and destructive potential in that dynamic.

I cannot say that I am comfortable with much of that. I say that in spite of the fact that I am from a Middle Eastern family, a culture in which male kissing is a general form of greeting. I just never got into that aspect of the culture.

I have no qualms with it, with respect to people within my family, but I never quite got the Biblical admonition to "greet one another with a holy kiss". In fact, I haven't embraced that practice. LOL

Handshakes, fist-bumps, chest-bumps? I'm cool with it.

Hugs? Reserved for people I know and trust.

Kisses? Those are reserved for wife and family members.

69. Aeryn said the following at 10:16 AM on Jan 26:

Never mind.....I went googling. They are divorced. How terribly sad. :(

70. Elizabeth (from Canada) said the following at 10:56 AM on Jan 26:

This is an interesting topic - I have noticed some of this behaviour among young men I know. I think it would be good for us, as a culture, to be more physically affectionate in a non-sexual way, and I think that might be happening. However, I wonder if when guys are physically affectionate while joking about being gay, the opposite might actually be happening. They might actually be uncomfortable with expressing physical affection. Why? Because from my observation of men, they joke a lot about things when they're uncomfortable. And, if they make it into a joke, they can express themselves while making it into a sort of "isn't this funny - I know what I'm doing might look gay, but since I'm joking about it being so, I'm showing that's not really what I'm thinking."
What do you think, guys? Is there anything my idea, or am I way out there?

71. Emily D said the following at 11:20 AM on Jan 26:

Hmmm... Very interesting post. I've been thinking about this lately.

@ Katie #12... Ditto! Well said. It's exactly the same wa for me at my place of christian higher education...

It's interesting that in other cultures/countries guys holding hands while walking down the street etc is completely normal and not considered awkward or homosexual.

72. Adam said the following at 11:28 AM on Jan 26:

Ted,

First, what you have written is entirely ambiguous. We need to clearly define what we mean. Do we mean patting someone on the back when they are going through a hard time, or putting a hand on the shoulder?. One also has to define what one means by a hug. Does one hug a man in the same way one hugs a woman? Hardly. Also, what do you mean by "effeminate?" Do you mean that he just doesn't act like all of the other guys, or do you mean that he has grown his hair long, is wearing flower berets in his hair, and wore a white flower dress to practice, all the while flirting with all of the guys, and saying he has no same sex attraction?

Also, even if it is a problem, like anything else, it is way too simplistic to suggest one cause.

First of all, homosexuality is a problem. While homosexuals are a very small amount of the population, their behavior is spewed in our face on a daily basis. I think that it has a very similar effect that having pornography everywhere does. It corrupts our minds, and it just creates another worldly temptation.

Also, I think that you should realize that it is not just in men; women have the tendency to be holding one another, and then to just break into lesbian relationships. I would argue that this is a problem on both ends.

Also, I seriously doubt this has anything to do with desire for women. I don't think it has anything to do with something being "safer." The real problem is that I don't believe the church knows how to relate to the spiritual needs of men. The church itself has become so effeminate that cannot relate to men's needs, and hence, I think men are turning to each other to have their needs met. This is not the case in all churches, but, let's put it this way, simply following what Albert Mohler and Mark Driscoll think a man should be, and refining your message that way, is not relating to men. In fact, this movement is doing more to keep men away from the church, then all of the atheistic movements combined.

I think that the church needs to start from scratch. The first primary need is for the gospel. The second need is for the sanctification of the spirit, and growth in the truth. I think that we need to go back to the text of scripture, and understand how to relate to men from the text of scripture alone, and not try to turn men into a relic from the Victorian era. We need to be Biblical in how we approach ministering to men, and not historical. When men start seeing that they will have their need for intimacy met in Christ and in Christ alone, then you will see less of this, less pornography addiction, and less of all of these problems because their need for intimacy is being met fully and completely in Christ.

God Bless,
Adam

73. "concerned" said the following at 11:36 AM on Jan 26:

There are a bunch of Christian guys in my young adult group who act in a “bromance” way. Their caressing each other’s faces and other physical interactions comes across to me, as frankly, disturbing. These are guys who, at one time will be fervently praying, worshipping God, and speaking passionately about God, and then another start acting “weird” with each other. One of the guys once sat cradled in another’s arms on the couch at a church party. Then he and another guy were dancing with each other, posing cheek to cheek. I’ve mentioned to all these guys that it comes across “gay” but they don’t seem to care and keep doing it. One the guys told me it wasn’t “gay” and another basically told me he enjoys joking around like he’s gay with his friends, even to the extent of holding hands with one of his guy friends on the street. They even banter about going on dates with each other. Some guys joke around and it comes across kind of funny, but this seems beyond that. Other people in the group find their “gay” jokes and behavior disturbing too. Because it bothered me so much, I even talked with the young adult pastor about it with hopes that he would talk to them about it. I don’t understand why they would want to come across this way, because homosexuality is something the Bible tells Christians not to take part in. As far as I know, these guys are heterosexual. If they love God and fear Him, why would they even want to present this image, when homosexuality hurts people’s lives, robs men from having wives and children, and is a bondage that Jesus wants to set the captive free? First Thessalonians 5:22 says to, “Avoid every kind of evil,” which I believe includes “pretending like you’re gay.” Why give the appearance? What's in them that they even want to act this way? We as Christians are to imitate Christ and be a good example to those around us, so I think this behavior is inappropriate for those in the body of Christ. Plus, they could be scaring off potential girlfriends by causing the girls to wonder, “Are they secretly gay?”

74. Loris said the following at 11:41 AM on Jan 26:

Mrs Larijani #55, I didn't even think of that when reading the original post! You're right, everyone did think it was hilarious, except for some of the girls (who generally had no sense of humor anyway) whose clothing got appropriated. I remember it happened to my hall the 2nd week of freshman year. Most of us wore our bedsheets to the meal and ate with the boys who were wearing our clothes. Classic.

75. MissMaverick said the following at 11:42 AM on Jan 26:

I have to admit, bromance was a new term to me until about a year ago. A guy that I had dated for a year was unable to commit to a romantic relationship beyond that point because of addictions he needed to overcome, but he did not rule out a relationship with me in the future. What had gone wrong? What was it about me that he didn’t like? Things would have gone on the way they were in perpetuity until who knows when, but I said something about us and where it was headed. Now, this same young man has admitted to same sex attraction and is in a crisis of faith. And? He is in what all of his friends would call a serious bromance. Not technically homosexual, or at least not stated. I have been seeing this more and more.

I hear stories of their fathers and mothers that make me wonder if that has pushed them toward same sex attraction or at the least, confusion in relating to other men: absent, harsh, authoritarian, extremely judgmental on the right “manly” things to do, a father that passed away at a young age so a guy does not know how to be a man, or berating the fact that the man is not yet married and therefore isn’t a “real man” or even adult until he does so.

After hearing Mike Haley’s testimonial on coming out of a gay lifestyle and what he felt turned him towards the affection of men (being molested by an older man in authority as a pre-teen, his father calling him Michelle, and his refusal to come to his swimming events because he felt only hockey, baseball, and football were manly) .When an older man in authority showed interest in him, validated him as a boy, and stepped into the place his father should have held—and then proceeded to molest him, thereby awakening his sexual awareness—Mike turned toward men instead of women.

Many guys don’t take initiative with women or if they do, they are met with resistance or refusal. Men need emotional support, community, connection, affection, support, and validation. In years past, men married fairly young and had these needs met from a woman, their children, and family. Now, many young men are on their own, far away from connectedness of family and friends back home. In small towns, marriage and healthy friendships between guys come about fairly easily. These young men are encouraged by their parents, grandparents, and friends to marry, have a family, and just have good “guy time” with their friends. My four brothers have great guy friends, but no one would ever look at their time together as too intimate, too physical, or potentially homosexual. Other guys, perhaps, are just sick of trying to woo and win over a girl they like, so they turn to a good guy friend in an unhealthy way. Whispers soon ensue that this guy is in a bromance, though no one is brave enough to question them and ask if they are in blatant homosexual sin.

A lack of good role models? The same young man I referred to earlier said that he didn’t want the burden of a relationship, liked doing what he wanted when he wanted to—and this is what shocked me the most—didn’t see enough good or great marriages to see it as a wholly desirable thing. If a guy is living the confirmed fun, carefree, bachelor life—and doesn’t have an accountability system to encourage him toward marriage and pursuing a loving, Godly woman to meet his needs—he can hide in a bromance to cover up his fear of marriage, same sex attractions, or prolonged his youth.

Avoid the appearance of evil. When my sister was 17, she dated a guy with whom she was extremely intimate and physically affectionate in public, making everyone wonder what they were up to behind closed doors. A few months later, she admitted she was pregnant. The same goes for bromances. They could be completely innocent, but the intimacy, physical touch, neediness, and close interaction and dependence makes me wonder what is going on behind the scenes. No one would look at my friendships with girls as too intimate, romantic, or unhealthy. We maintain a close, open, sharing friendship while remaining feminine, heterosexual, and healthy. But, I had a strong, close family to support me, teach me to be a woman, and continuously validate my worth in Christ.

The homosexual agenda is slowly creeping into society like a misty morning fog rolling into a valley. Quiet and stealthy, it confuses male and female identity, the difference between sexual sin and purity, and the proper place from which to look for love, validation, and support. Throw off the balance of God’s perfect order and chaos, confusion, and misunderstanding will soon ensue.

76. Jenny said the following at 12:00 PM on Jan 26:

After reading the comments, I have more questions than answers:
-along the lines of #48, Just because something is a norm in another culture, does that mean it is right?
-also, Why is it ok to joke about/make fun of people who are homosexual? Is that a reasonable justification for the behavior Ted's referring to?
-What is a good, working definition of "bromance," and how does it line up with what the Bible has to say about relationships? A girl-girl friendship, is just that: a friendship. Why can't a guy-guy friendship be termed a friendship? The very word bromance implies that it is a romantic relationship among men.
Like I said, I just questions. I really have only seen this once. 2 guys I didn't know were sitting in front of me in church and one of them just randomly reached over and scratched the other guys back for awhile. I thought it was rather odd.

77. juay said the following at 12:09 PM on Jan 26:

okay, i've been saying the same thing for quite some time now, only about the girls. We already know that women are more physical with one another than men are and it's more acceptable for them to be that way, but a lot of the girls that i know have become really emotional in their relationships with their sisters. it's an odd phenomenon and i believe that they are replacing the void of male companionship with thier friends. they're forced to make this replacement becasue the men aren't pursuing them (maybe because of things observed in this article). the sexes just aren't mixing toward lasting relationships anymore. it's like they're scared! this emotional replacement has begun to play itself out in their physical interactions between each other too (i.e. cuddling). i've even observed two very heterosexual women spooning!!!! It's insane, and I think must stop! most of my single female aquaintances seem to think that their in-depth female relationships are serving as training grounds for solving conflict with their future spouses, so they are okay with the outpour of emotions. I disagree!

to sum it up, none of these women are gay, but i do feel that they (the guys and the girls) are taking these same-sex relationship too far. It is beginning to feel like a softer level of homosexuality and I just don't think that the sexes should interact with one another in such a familiar way.

It's got to stop.

78. Raven said the following at 12:10 PM on Jan 26:

I've seen this a lot lately with older boys in youth groups. I do a lot of Disciple Now Weekends with churches around my state. To me, the problem isn't men being able to show emotion or affection. As it has already been pointed out, this isn't a problem with other men in other nations. The problem to me is that it's mimicking homosexuality and even mocking it. While I don't condone homosexuality, I would think that anyone going through that struggle who witnesses this brand of "bromance" would never say anything for fear of being mocked.

79. BDB said the following at 12:43 PM on Jan 26:

I think Courtney (#47) is onto something.

Our sermon this weekend was on affairs and their impact on marriage. I couldn't help but notice that affairs "start" the same way dating relationships "start" with something in common, paying attention to a person, etc. etc.

I think back on the times I observed married women being mildly flirtatous with men who weren't their husbands. This might happen in a setting such as when co-workers go out for a drink at the end of the day. And in a group, not alone.

But the behavior always sets me on edge. I'm not at all surprised to realize that most of those women are divorced now. I have no knowledge one way or another of whether their husbands were "neglecting" them or something else. But it was fairly clear that they were flirting with sin, even if they had no intention of following through with it.

80. Sara said the following at 1:16 PM on Jan 26:

This is more in response to other comments versus Ted's original question:

What is wrong with the other cultures argument? I think people are just trying to point out that some gender differences are biological (men generally having better visual-spatial awareness then women, women generally being more linguistic), and some gender differences are social constructs (such as physical affection).

I think both men and women enjoy physical contact, and not just sexual physical contact. I think the idea that we don't see non-sexual physical contact between men as normal is a social construct, not biological. Thus, the "other culture" argument can work in this case.

81. BDB said the following at 1:26 PM on Jan 26:

Just to give you an idea how these things can create problems...I was once at a service organization convention where some guys were complimenting one guy on the board about how he was confident enough in his masculinity to wear a pink shirt.

Later that day, this same guy was delivering an emotional speech and pushing forward a policy change regarding discrimination against homosexuals - including the explanation about how it affected him personally as a gay man.

I'm not convinced joking around is a good plan.

82. Peter said the following at 1:29 PM on Jan 26:

I'd like to commend ZacIssacs (#52) Comment WRT forced intimacy.

Too many well-meaning Christians look for examples such as that of David, and totally ignore the context.
- David's personality type is shared by a minority of men. That type is naturally comfortable with emotional display in a way that the majority are not.
- David's tendency to permit his emotions to rule him was not universally positive. That same tendency also led him to commit adultery, murder, and failure to properly discipline his sons.... all with disastrous results.
- David's "intimate" relationship with Jonathon was rare, even in David's experience. That relationship was a once-in-a-life-time friendship and not typical of David's relationship with all of his friends.
- What we see in the bible of David and Jonathon's friendship is the result of that relationship, not the cause of it. Men build close friendships on the basis of respect and shared experience. Ask combat veterans (as David was) why they are so close to their military friends and the response is shared experience, and the trust that comes with teamwork and depending on others to keep you alive. That was the basis of David and Jonathon's relationship, and it cannot be counterfeited by a forced "intimacy".

Regards..... Peter

83. Zusanne said the following at 1:34 PM on Jan 26:

I was just thinking the other day about how differently males and females relate to each other--when I was watching a basketball game and the male spectators walked into the arena and greeted each other by smacking each other on the rear. How many times do we see that, even after foul shots, the players line up for the butt pat.

To be honest, as a woman, I've never been tempted to greet my friends that way :)

I realize that, as a resident of south Florida, I live in a more "touchy-feely" zone than other places in the world. We kiss and hug each other much more freely than most people do; coming and going takes a little while because everyone--male or female--gets a kiss.

What makes most of us uncomfortable is when some of the guys embrace each other--for a while. I don't think it's anything sexual, but it's very uncomfortable for those around to watch.

I liked the way MrsLarjani (#55) put it: "We all do stupid stuff when we're dealing with over-charged hormones with no real outlets."

84. Lis said the following at 1:49 PM on Jan 26:

when it comes to just joking around, i don't think it's a big deal. i actually think it's funny. as far as guys being genuinely affectionate, like hugging, i think we have let our very OVERSEXUALIZED american culture define too much of what should and should not be masculine.

85. Sam P said the following at 1:56 PM on Jan 26:

I see no problem with this. Some of my friends and I at college do this. There are obvious boundaries (pretty much just hugs most of the time), and we are all, without question, straight. We all know it's just kidding around, and yes, it is similar to football players patting each other on the butt.

86. Ultraviolet said the following at 2:42 PM on Jan 26:

Obewan (65) and Jack (23):

I cannot believe you're blaming women for this! To be frank, the complaint that women are only taking "the best" men, or are being fussy seems to be based in the complaint that they're just not choosing you. You may not know what criteria these women are using, and hey it could also just be personal taste! Just because someone is a nice Christian guy doesn't mean he is entitled to dates. There are a lot of things that go into a choosing to enter a relationship.

Now I don't know these women, nor their motives, so maybe you're right. But your comments come across as offensive, and I don't see why men can be held responsible for their own behaviour. A lot of men are rejected by women, and they find ways to deal with it, without having to "release pressure" with their male friends (which, I don't even think is the cause of these actions).

87. Robert Birch said the following at 2:43 PM on Jan 26:

I graduated from Colorado Springs Christian School in 2004, and acting 'gay' was very common among the guys. It's almost encouraged to a degree. I don't know why we do it but we probably do it just to blow of steam and play a little game of chicken ... i.e. how gay can you act to freak people out.

Lately, though, a lot of my friends and I have grown out of it. I think it's just a phase over a over sex hyped culture we live in and teenage hormones.

88. Melanie said the following at 2:45 PM on Jan 26:

What an interesting topic. I work as a youth minister in Virginia and have been wondering about this for the last few years. Increasingly, high school boys seem to be very comfortable with physical displays of affection -- or just physical touch with each other. I saw it first within my own young adult group (those younger than I, though); they seemed to be at that high level of comfort with physical touch within the group of men. But, at least they knew it was odd.

Then, I started seeing it within the guys at a high school Bible study with which I helped. They would all sit on the couch cuddled under a shared blanket. I saw a guy lay his head in another's lap. It all seemed innocent (as in not trying to push some sort of homosexual agenda), but my questions grew.

It then reached a high point when I had two young men who were in my own youth ministry who seemed even more overboard. They would dress the same, have the arms around each other for long durations, have their own secret whisper language and make people feel uncomfortable with their displays of affection. They were best friends and were dating best friend girls.

I talked to some other men in ministry about this, but no one seemed to have a good explanation -- other than that it is a growing trend. When I had to confront them about their behavior -- some not appropriate for the chapel -- I got very little from them, although I would have been happy to listen to attempt to understand.

I'd love to see an article about this, especially as it probably is now moving up into the college and young adult ages.

89. Marie said the following at 3:02 PM on Jan 26:

As a girl I really enjoy watching "bromance." I love seeing 2o-something guys hugging each other and being goofy.

I grew up in a church were the guys were not knitted together at all, and so often I heard the putdowns they would throw back and forth. like, "You're so gay, you don't even have a girl friend." My friend (who's a guy) told me he wasn't about to trust the guys because of all this, so he ended not having "guy-time" with "Christian" guys. He's left the church all together.

So seeing guys honestly hugging and being saying, "Man I love you! "I'm all for. Few guys would come up to his girlfriend and hug her like he does his best buddy, if he did she would fall over.

Now, two guys holding hands in the west, not kosher.

90. obewan said the following at 3:34 PM on Jan 26:

#86. Ultraviolet said the following at 2:42 PM on Jan 26:
Obewan (65) and Jack (23):

I cannot believe you're blaming women for this! To be frank, the complaint that women are only taking "the best" men, or are being fussy seems to be based in the complaint that they're just not choosing you.
------------------------------------
Sorry. I was not trying to lay blame. I was relating a true story that literally happened.

I am not personally feeling “rejected” because I have not asked any of these women out.

My friend has, and he is the best of the best quality when it comes to men- except for his joking I suppose. It was no skin off his nose. He just went where he could meet women and face less rejection. (Internet)

All of those women at our church group have been through VERY BITTER divorces. Many of them are into "husband bashing" and have some serious healing to do. The undercurrent of "battle of the sexes" if always there to contend with.

I suppose I may have been a little off base with the "less than average" remark, but I did a count one Sunday morning and 80% of our women are obese. Now I only bring that up because I see them constantly overindulging in "comfort food" to the neglect of their body health. One of them has 3 Krespy Creme doughnuts every Sunday morning - after having a breakfast at home. Just saying there are things these women could do to improve their situation. My guy friends and myself usually limit ourselves to ½ a doughnut….just saying…

91. Marie said the following at 3:36 PM on Jan 26:

I think that there is a potential, if it is approached in the right way, for healthy male friendships to point a way to a healthy sexual orientation. However, acting disrespectful of anyone (including gays)is not the way to go about this. I sensed that a lot of the responses indicated a mocking approach to homosexuality. No persons behavior should be mocked. If it is inappropriate, it should be corrected. But mocking hurts everyone involved and is un-Biblical (read Proverbs).

92. Ted Slater said the following at 3:49 PM on Jan 26:

Marie (#89) -- I'm not talking "hugging" here; I'm talking about guys "cuddling." I'm not talking about a guy saying "I love you" to another guy; I'm talking about a guy putting his hand on another guy's thigh and winking at him. Usually it's done in jest, I understand....

Please, y'all, I'm not talking about simple male friendship. As I explained before, I spent a couple of months in Colombia and not only witnessed how warmly affectionate guys can be with each other, I *participated* in it. That, I believe, is healthy. But this relatively new "bromance gone wild" is of some concern, I believe. To see examples, read through the comments above....

93. Sasha said the following at 3:59 PM on Jan 26:

I think #56 is right on. And I agree that it's usually easy to tell the difference between the two types of behavior.

94. EKB said the following at 4:11 PM on Jan 26:

I've noticed a lot of "bromance," especially on retreats. At one retreat I attended as a teen, a lot of the guys were all over each other most of the time, constantly hugging, giving back rubs, etc. Specifically I remember at the end of the retreats when we were sharing what we'd learned, each guy's small groups would stand around him while he was speaking and rub his back, stroke his hair, etc. I thought it was a bit off. All I can figure is that maybe young guys are starved for physical affection.

Even stranger, I know Christian guys who would go on all-male retreats and brag about spending time together there nude. I can't imagine what it would be like for a guy struggling with same-sex attraction to find himself in a situation like that.

As a side note, Obewan, it seems like you frequently mention the weight and appearance of the women at your church. If you don't want to date them, that's fine, but these are your sisters in Christ and I think they would be hurt and embarrassed if they found out you thought of them that way.

(I apologize if this is double posted; I tried to post this a few minutes ago and it said the data was not accepted)

95. Brandon said the following at 4:53 PM on Jan 26:

I saw alot of this going on even 10 years ago in college. It's why I left Campus Crusade and really stopped hanging around the Christian groups. I know several other guys left as well. There were male friends sitting on other male friends laps and getting back massages, and constant effeminate ways of speaking to one another. Not so much in a teasing way but in a normal everyday way of life type of thing. There was alot of push towards this "Brotherly Love" type of thing that I believe went too far. It was pretty widespread and infected the leadership as well.

My brother quit the Christian college he attended for the exact same reasons. His roommates would climb in bed with each other and "spoon" regularly. They were constantly speaking to each other with gay overtones. He said the other guys in the dorm all did the same thing when around each other.

I don't know what causes this. Perhaps it's because these guys are being beat down regarding sex with women. They go to school with these girls, they can't sleep with them, but yet can't really get married to them either. Then you put on top of that the sex charged culture we live in and perhaps to release some sexual energy they go "gay". It's the one thing that really isn't frowned on, but kind of encouraged by being called "Christian Brotherly Love".

Don't get me wrong I'm not blaming the women. I do think the leadership is to blame, by not fostering a realistic guy girl relationship. Not everyone is going to be a missionary or celibate like Christ. Get over it and work on putting Christian people in God honoring relationships that end in marriage. Sometimes it seems the emphasis is too focused on a calling that the majority of people don't have. The end result is that guys try to be like Christ or Paul and they "shun" women but aren't called to that way of living. The result is some jacked up dudes who aren't really following their true calling, but think that God loves them more because of it.

96. MrsLarijani said the following at 6:17 PM on Jan 26:

Loris -

It happened to me my junior year. The only thing that bugged me about it at the time was (1) ALL clothes were stolen, therefore (2) At least one male touched my panties and (3) My roommate had no clothes for basketball practice.

It kind of surprised me how upset I got about my lingerie being stolen, but I was thankful for some evidence of modesty back then.

We didn't wear bedsheets, but we awaited anxiously with cameras. :)

97. Kay said the following at 6:22 PM on Jan 26:

i cannot stand when guys act like that. Even if it is just joking. It is making fun of a serious matter of sin that the Bible condemns. Growing up a lot of my teenage guy friends did this. It was so gross. They would talk like a woman, and do girlish things just for fun. I couldn't stand it. As a woman, I wanted a man's man. I'm not saying that men can't be affectionate or emotional. They should be..with the woman they will call their wife. When i started to see so much of it going on, I told myself i would never consider marrying a guy that acted like that. It is simply NOT attractive. I gotta admit, it didn't leave that many guys around. But thankfully the Lord brought an amazing man into my life. He is a true man through and through, and is not afraid to be affectionate and emotional around me.

98. Becca said the following at 6:28 PM on Jan 26:

So... a few years ago I went on this date once with this guy in college to a campus event. Not only did he ask me to go with him just so he could spy on my roommate and her date (they are now getting married), but he would frequently leave me by myself in order to show affection to the other guys (hugging them, stroking their hair, rubbing their back, etc). This is a very common phenomenon, because I've observed similar behavior among many of my other male friends. My question is... why has it become so prevalent that it's necessary even on a date with a girl? I'm rather puzzled too.

99. James said the following at 7:38 PM on Jan 26:

Well "in jest" is putting it too lightly - it's mocking and making fun of a certain type of person which is unacceptable, especially for Christians. I'd used the derogatory words and actions (speaking in a lisp) at times in JR HIGH - because I was an immature boy. My guess is kids (or God help us, young adults) will stop when they actually get to know someone whose gay. It's a mark of immaturity, simple as that. I would hope any youth group leaders would put a stop to it if they see it.

100. BDB said the following at 9:33 PM on Jan 26:

100

For a good explanation of how the Ancients understood Phileo love - as in Philadelphia - a.k.a. Friendship, I highly recommend the chapter on Friendship in C.S. Lewis' The Four Loves. The key issue in this kind of friendship is, "Do you see the same truth?"

When we read in 1 Samuel 18 Jonathan's soul was knit to that of David. But note that two previous events took place.

In 1 Samuel 17, David relies on God's strength to defeat Goliath. That is impressive courage, and an impressive victory.

But before David was annointed King in 1 Samuel 16, Jonathan did something similar. In chapter 14, Jonathan relies on God's strength, and he and his armor-bearer defeat a whole bunch of Philistines; just the two of them.

So, the truth that both understood is that victory in battle comes from relying on God's strength. And the fact that both understood that truth so deeply became the basis of their Friendship.

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Bromances Gone Wild
by Ted Slater on 01/25/2010 at 2:56 PM

Christian Community , Men & Women , Sex | Mail This | Share on Facebook

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1. BDB said the following at 3:06 PM on Jan 25:

Yes, I was just stirring the pot...and admittedly, if they actually did that at a marriage conference, it would probably hurt ticket sales...

2. obewan said the following at 3:40 PM on Jan 25:

3. Anna said the following at 4:16 PM on Jan 25:

4. farmer Tom said the following at 4:26 PM on Jan 25:

I've always found these kinds of behavior to be questionable.

5. rachel said the following at 4:31 PM on Jan 25:

I think young men being more physically and emotionally affectionate with each other is great! But I agree with the previous poster--acting effeminate is often a silly mask for insecurity.

6. Texas Craig said the following at 4:34 PM on Jan 25:

BDB (#1):

7. Lia said the following at 4:39 PM on Jan 25:

And? So? If they're gay, they're gay, and apparently still going to your church. If they're not, they're not. I don't see why this is a big problem.

8. Stephen said the following at 4:56 PM on Jan 25:

Ted, you wrote:

>>Or maybe they're indeed experiencing sexual ambiguity, and experimenting with homosexual behavior<<

9. Caroline said the following at 5:01 PM on Jan 25:

10. Seung said the following at 5:02 PM on Jan 25:

11. Keith said the following at 5:29 PM on Jan 25:

Maybe those Muslim countries have it right, and WE need to redefine what is considered to be masculine and feminine.

12. Katie said the following at 5:34 PM on Jan 25:

13. Lost in the World said the following at 5:43 PM on Jan 25:

Y'know, this might be a good thing.

First, let me distinguish, as did #5, between being more physically and emotionally open and actually acting effeminate.

14. lindsey said the following at 5:58 PM on Jan 25:

Different cultures express friendship and fondness differently.

15. S said the following at 6:02 PM on Jan 25:

I think what you're describing is immaturity.

16. Fireforged said the following at 6:11 PM on Jan 25:

17. Carol said the following at 6:18 PM on Jan 25:

Several men that I know act this way at times. I agree with Katie (#12). I don't think that these guys are closet homosexuals, but it sure makes me uncomfortable to watch them "acting gay."

18. SaraL said the following at 6:21 PM on Jan 25:

19. Collin said the following at 6:28 PM on Jan 25:

20. EM said the following at 6:36 PM on Jan 25:

21. BDB said the following at 6:41 PM on Jan 25:

Texas Craig - #6 - I'm pretty sure it's an American cultural thing, with no Biblical backup.

The rule of thumb was, "It doesn't matter if you cry, you still have to balance your batch before you drop it into the safe. Here's a tissue, go re-run your tape."

But yes, I know I was spoiled because women in accounting are on the less emotional side of the scale. They Want the Math to Work.

22. Ultraviolet said the following at 7:08 PM on Jan 25:

23. jack said the following at 7:09 PM on Jan 25:

Too much rejection from impossible-to-please women could very well be causing the bottled-up emotional nature of some men to escape in this manner (which is probably inappropriate for Christian men).

Pressurized contents eventually escape in one way or another. If Christian women are actively shunning all but the "best" males, well...

For whatever reason, I'm reminded of Isaiah 3:12-18 and Isaiah 4:1.

Of course, this does not apply to the women who truly love Christ. But it sure applies to a lot of Church Girls.

24. Justice said the following at 7:14 PM on Jan 25:

i didnt bother reading everyone's posts, but ive seen this since i was in HS in the late 90's, and around Christians. It's not a big deal, and in fact, in other cultures, it's normal. Dont freak out.

25. David in Cambridge said the following at 7:20 PM on Jan 25:

"Your love [Jonathan] for me [David] was wonderful,
more wonderful than that of a woman."

Or more sexual ambiguous (by modern American standards) than 1 Samuel 20:41:

"Then they [David and Jonathan] kissed each other and wept together."

26. Ruth said the following at 7:43 PM on Jan 25:

27. HT said the following at 7:43 PM on Jan 25:

28. SirTurtle said the following at 7:45 PM on Jan 25:

29. Ev said the following at 7:52 PM on Jan 25:

30. Marie said the following at 7:59 PM on Jan 25:

At best, those guys are mildly amusing, and at worst, they're downright disgusting.

31. PM said the following at 8:08 PM on Jan 25:

32. Emily said the following at 8:23 PM on Jan 25:

Because we spend a lot of time on conferences and retreats, often the guys have to share beds, and many share bathrooms in rented houses/apartments. Of course, they're going to be close!

Honestly, as long as the joking doesn't turn sexual in nature or derogatory, I don't see any problem with "bro-mances". It's fellowship!

33. Bryce said the following at 8:31 PM on Jan 25:

34. Mark W said the following at 8:32 PM on Jan 25:

This was and is a very common occurrence at my university fellowship group.

35. Matthew Jones said the following at 8:35 PM on Jan 25:

Yes, and holy kisses were once the domain of ancient Christians.

36. Chris said the following at 8:39 PM on Jan 25:

Shhh.....nobody tell Amir. This will totally ruin his day.....;^)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bromance

37. Matt said the following at 8:46 PM on Jan 25:

In a simlair way, they enjoy playing a game where they toss balls or objects at each others "junk". Makes no sense to me, but they all are extremely happy when playing it.

38. JenFromMA said the following at 8:48 PM on Jan 25:

Anna (#3)

YAY SCOTLAND!!!! I spent all last year abroad at St. Andrews and absolutely fell in love with everything about it.

39. AJB said the following at 9:14 PM on Jan 25:

In response to #1

40. sarah elizabeth said the following at 9:23 PM on Jan 25:

41. sarah elizabeth said the following at 9:28 PM on Jan 25:

42. Lucy G. said the following at 9:54 PM on Jan 25:

43. Julie said the following at 10:11 PM on Jan 25:

44. Chris said the following at 11:05 PM on Jan 25:

45. Ted Slater said the following at 11:21 PM on Jan 25:

46. Jake said the following at 11:31 PM on Jan 25:

comment 15 I agree

47. Courtney said the following at 11:46 PM on Jan 25:

48. Peter said the following at 12:30 AM on Jan 26:

Ted.

Those who think that this is OK, should ponder a few things.

- Just because they do something differently in another culture, does not make it better. Consider the scriptural injunction to not let the world conform us to itself.

49. Brx said the following at 12:45 AM on Jan 26:

Ted,

Grace, peace, discernment and courage in initiating meaninful discussion with those who might be going too-far with underlying issues that need to be addressed.

50. Brx said the following at 12:55 AM on Jan 26:

RE: BDB #1,

Awesome marriage conference suggestion! I'd like to see the speaker say that and pause long enough to see the "huh? hmmmm... well..." expressions on many of the ladies. :>

I doubt it would hurt repeat sales at all if the speaker then went on to teach about healthy two-way communication.

Grace, peace & listening

...right as I may be, listening is often more peaceful...

51. Melissa said the following at 1:49 AM on Jan 26:

52. ZacIssacs said the following at 2:25 AM on Jan 26:

TL:DR?

True affection = Good
False affection = Bad

53. DC said the following at 3:18 AM on Jan 26:

Chris #44

Although I am not a touchy feely type with my male friends. I think it would be tragic for the guys that are, in genuninely innocent ways as you suggest, to refrain in fear of offending women.

Flip things around, should girls refrain from hugging their friends in fear it may offend the sensibilites of the males around them? Yeah, I dont think anyone would agree to that.

I just dont think it wise by any means for men to always defer to the wishes of women when it comes to emotional expression.

54. khalil said the following at 3:18 AM on Jan 26:

#11, Keith

55. MrsLarijani said the following at 5:10 AM on Jan 26:

I saw some of this in college (conservative, Christian, dormitory halls separated by gender). Ironically enough, the behavior came from some of the most testosterone-charged dormitory halls.

There was even one guys' hall that would, once a year, steal clothing from a girls' hall and then wear different pieces to dinner that night.

We all do stupid stuff when we're dealing with over-charged hormones with no real outlets.

However . . .

Since when does Scripture ever give us an "out" for stupid behavior? Is this not something that we are called to repent of? Didn't Paul say that we shouldn't sin so that grace may abound?

One argument that I don't like is "other cultures do it". I hate to sound like an over-bearing mother, but if other cultures jumped off a bridge, would you do it too?

56. Kiwi Bloke said the following at 6:13 AM on Jan 26:

57. Bernie said the following at 7:04 AM on Jan 26:

This just sounds like more aftermath from a fatherless generation, and it's sad.

58. Daniel said the following at 7:11 AM on Jan 26:

59. Loris said the following at 7:19 AM on Jan 26:

And occasionally you get a crossed wire. My husband is the moody venter; I'm the restrained fixer. We joke all the time that we should swap bodies.

60. jayme said the following at 7:35 AM on Jan 26:

61. Aeryn said the following at 8:00 AM on Jan 26:

62. Katie A. said the following at 8:22 AM on Jan 26:

63. Lore said the following at 8:24 AM on Jan 26:

64. obewan said the following at 8:46 AM on Jan 26:

I actually have one more story from later in life from my over age 40 church singles group.

The ratio is probably 2:1 women to men, and the women who are mostly less than average looking and quite portly are still “fussy”.

It never went beyond that, but he left the church singles group and has taken to meeting some very attractive women on the Internet who do not "reject" him so much.

I am still there but don’t get too stressed since my priority is more focused on fellowship than finding a wife.

65. Robert Hall said the following at 8:55 AM on Jan 26:

wow, talk about a non-issue.

66. anonymous said the following at 9:48 AM on Jan 26:

If I saw men interacting this way, I would have a very hard time ever seeing them in a romantic light.

I, an attractive, feminine, Christian woman would never consider such a man a potential husband. And I can pretty certainly say "never" on this one.

Yuck.

67. Ultraviolet said the following at 9:54 AM on Jan 26:

68. Amir Larijani said the following at 9:56 AM on Jan 26:

Goodness! I'd never heard of a "bromance" before. Thanks for the laugh!

OTOH, I'd say that there is--in some of the men's ranks--an attempt at intimacy that is otherwise well-intended, that has been promoted by groups such as Promise Keepers.

I personally witnessed this, and saw both a positive and destructive potential in that dynamic.

Handshakes, fist-bumps, chest-bumps? I'm cool with it.

Hugs? Reserved for people I know and trust.

Kisses? Those are reserved for wife and family members.

69. Aeryn said the following at 10:16 AM on Jan 26:

Never mind.....I went googling. They are divorced. How terribly sad. :(

70. Elizabeth (from Canada) said the following at 10:56 AM on Jan 26:

71. Emily D said the following at 11:20 AM on Jan 26:

Hmmm... Very interesting post. I've been thinking about this lately.

@ Katie #12... Ditto! Well said. It's exactly the same wa for me at my place of christian higher education...

It's interesting that in other cultures/countries guys holding hands while walking down the street etc is completely normal and not considered awkward or homosexual.

72. Adam said the following at 11:28 AM on Jan 26:

Ted,

Also, even if it is a problem, like anything else, it is way too simplistic to suggest one cause.

God Bless,
Adam

73. "concerned" said the following at 11:36 AM on Jan 26:

74. Loris said the following at 11:41 AM on Jan 26:

75. MissMaverick said the following at 11:42 AM on Jan 26:

76. Jenny said the following at 12:00 PM on Jan 26:

77. juay said the following at 12:09 PM on Jan 26:

It's got to stop.

78. Raven said the following at 12:10 PM on Jan 26:

79. BDB said the following at 12:43 PM on Jan 26:

I think Courtney (#47) is onto something.

80. Sara said the following at 1:16 PM on Jan 26:

This is more in response to other comments versus Ted's original question:

81. BDB said the following at 1:26 PM on Jan 26:

I'm not convinced joking around is a good plan.

82. Peter said the following at 1:29 PM on Jan 26:

I'd like to commend ZacIssacs (#52) Comment WRT forced intimacy.

Regards..... Peter

83. Zusanne said the following at 1:34 PM on Jan 26:

To be honest, as a woman, I've never been tempted to greet my friends that way :)

What makes most of us uncomfortable is when some of the guys embrace each other--for a while. I don't think it's anything sexual, but it's very uncomfortable for those around to watch.

I liked the way MrsLarjani (#55) put it: "We all do stupid stuff when we're dealing with over-charged hormones with no real outlets."

84. Lis said the following at 1:49 PM on Jan 26:

85. Sam P said the following at 1:56 PM on Jan 26:

86. Ultraviolet said the following at 2:42 PM on Jan 26:

Obewan (65) and Jack (23):

87. Robert Birch said the following at 2:43 PM on Jan 26:

Lately, though, a lot of my friends and I have grown out of it. I think it's just a phase over a over sex hyped culture we live in and teenage hormones.

88. Melanie said the following at 2:45 PM on Jan 26:

89. Marie said the following at 3:02 PM on Jan 26:

As a girl I really enjoy watching "bromance." I love seeing 2o-something guys hugging each other and being goofy.

So seeing guys honestly hugging and being saying, "Man I love you! "I'm all for. Few guys would come up to his girlfriend and hug her like he does his best buddy, if he did she would fall over.

Now, two guys holding hands in the west, not kosher.

90. obewan said the following at 3:34 PM on Jan 26:

#86. Ultraviolet said the following at 2:42 PM on Jan 26:
Obewan (65) and Jack (23):

I cannot believe you're blaming women for this! To be frank, the complaint that women are only taking "the best" men, or are being fussy seems to be based in the complaint that they're just not choosing you.
------------------------------------
Sorry. I was not trying to lay blame. I was relating a true story that literally happened.

I am not personally feeling “rejected” because I have not asked any of these women out.

91. Marie said the following at 3:36 PM on Jan 26:

92. Ted Slater said the following at 3:49 PM on Jan 26:

93. Sasha said the following at 3:59 PM on Jan 26:

I think #56 is right on. And I agree that it's usually easy to tell the difference between the two types of behavior.

94. EKB said the following at 4:11 PM on Jan 26:

(I apologize if this is double posted; I tried to post this a few minutes ago and it said the data was not accepted)

95. Brandon said the following at 4:53 PM on Jan 26:

96. MrsLarijani said the following at 6:17 PM on Jan 26:

Loris -

It kind of surprised me how upset I got about my lingerie being stolen, but I was thankful for some evidence of modesty back then.

We didn't wear bedsheets, but we awaited anxiously with cameras. :)

97. Kay said the following at 6:22 PM on Jan 26:

98. Becca said the following at 6:28 PM on Jan 26:

99. James said the following at 7:38 PM on Jan 26:

100. BDB said the following at 9:33 PM on Jan 26:

100

When we read in 1 Samuel 18 Jonathan's soul was knit to that of David. But note that two previous events took place.

In 1 Samuel 17, David relies on God's strength to defeat Goliath. That is impressive courage, and an impressive victory.

So, the truth that both understood is that victory in battle comes from relying on God's strength. And the fact that both understood that truth so deeply became the basis of their Friendship.

If you'd like to leave a comment, click here. I couldn't get the commenting feature to work correctly here, but it is available on that less user-friendly mobile version of the blog. Yeah, it's kludgy. Sorry. ~Ted.

Bromances Gone Wild
by Ted Slater on 01/25/2010 at 2:56 PM

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Bromances Gone Wild
by Ted Slater on 01/25/2010 at 2:56 PM

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Bromances Gone Wild by Ted Slater on 01/25/2010 at 2:56 PM

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Bromances Gone Wild by Ted Slater on 01/25/2010 at 2:56 PM

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Bromances Gone Wild
by Ted Slater on 01/25/2010 at 2:56 PM

Bromances Gone Wild
by Ted Slater on 01/25/2010 at 2:56 PM