Gone Fishing
by Suzanne Hadley Gosselin on 12/14/2009 at 11:40 AM
In his Boundless Answers column, John Thomas advises a young man asking if he should leave a small church for a bigger pond -- of single Christian women.
Thomas' advice is right on. There's no problem with seeking out a new church because you want to meet other singles, he says. But obviously your top priority is that you are part of a church to which you feel called and one that is teaching sound doctrine.
One too-common trend that I've noticed and do not respect is singles circulating through multiple churches just to scope out the opposite sex. This mode of operation keeps singles from serving in their churches and robs churches of financial support. Basically, too much "church hopping" is wholly unhealthy and actually renders useless many of the main purposes of the Body. I talk about that here and here.
As Thomas points out, there are other places to meet single Christians besides church. And while church is an ideal place to meet a Christian spouse, that is NOT the primary function of the church. Nor should it be your primary consideration in choosing a healthy place of worship.
In college, a girl named Christine told me the story of how she met her husband. As a high school graduate, she had to stay in her small town to take care of her ailing mother. And as a result, she attended a very small church with no available Christian men her age. Christine began praying specifically that her husband would one day "walk in the back door of the church." One Sunday morning, as Christine was singing in choir, she watched a tall, handsome redhead walk through that door. They were married six months later.
My experience was similar. My church is more of a family church, so single young adults are scarce. Several years ago I wondered if I should move on for this reason. But as the fifth grade Sunday school teacher, I felt called to the kids I was teaching and knew God wanted me at my church. Mere months after I made my decision to stay, my now-husband was hired as the children's ministry coordinator. Looking back, I realize that God brought Kevin to me; and I was in just the place I needed to be.
So if you feel called to find a different church; do it. But don't make finding a spouse your top priority. You truly can meet that person any place, any time. Even in a small pond.
1. Anonymous (in case someone from my church reads this) said the following at 11:58 AM on Dec 14:
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I absolutely don't doubt that God can bring someone to you anytime, anywhere -- my mom & dad have that story.
But the problem with small ponds -- even literal ones -- is that they often get stagnant. If there's no "fresh stream" of young unmarrieds coming in, it's hard to circulate.
I am absolutely not an advocate of church hopping, and I'm committed to serving in my church, but if you find yourself in a church where, year after year, NO young unmarrieds of the opposite sex stick around, you may find it encouraging to at least *visit* a larger church with a larger population. From time to time I visit a (theologically sound) church that's larger than my own, and I'm encouraged by seeing so many men there.
I know how it is to serve in a very solid, but not-so-large church: you are committed, and want to serve... but sometimes you feel as though you are NEEDED and feel guilty about wanting to leave (another issue, yes); at the same time, you get discouraged and feel "stuck" because nothing seems to be happening, despite all your prayers, efforts, etc.; and you watch others leave and find someone. And even if the church *does* grow (as mine does) -- often the new guys are new believers, which doesn't really work for a woman who's teaching and has been walking with God for a long time.
2. obewan said the following at 11:59 AM on Dec 14:
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"One too-common trend that I've noticed and do not respect is singles circulating through multiple churches just to scope out the opposite sex. This mode of operation keeps singles from serving in their churches and robs churches of financial support."
(Boundless)
You obviously have not thought much about the term "networking".
Please never forget that some churches are too small to have their own singles group. Fortunately nowadays, there are many churches that welcome singles from "other" fellowships besides their own. One group I attend has over 10 churches in town involved, and each church takes a turn at one time or another hosting events throughout the year.
And, I disagree about the serving part. My home church singles group only serves the homeless once or twice a year. Another group I attend serves the homeless twice a month. By attending more groups I have increased my serving time. And serving is like a social event. It gives you a chance to get to know people as you work side by side.
Now, I will admit that there are some singles that troll multiple singles groups to "hit" on other singles and try for more dates, but they are generally the exception rather than the rule.
I would never discourage lonely singles from seeking out their badly needed fellowship - even if it meant attending multiple churches.
And as far as money goes, if the home church does not have a paid singles ministry staff, then I see nothing wrong with a small portion of the giving going to a church that does since they are meeting that single person’s need.
3. Rebecca said the following at 12:21 PM on Dec 14:
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Thank you, thank you. Excellent article. There are no single young men in my church. And there is a pretty good population of single young women. We're not interested in church hopping, especially as there aren't any churches around here that have sound doctrine. So, we're waiting and hoping some nice guys will "walk in our backdoor" and start fishing in a smaller pond. :)
4. FrankH said the following at 12:24 PM on Dec 14:
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@Suzanne (the author): Suppose your story was that you decided to stay with your church, you're in your mid-thirties, you're still single, and you still don't think you have the gift of singleness. Would you still have the same thought on the matter?
5. MarkS said the following at 12:41 PM on Dec 14:
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Isn't looking for a spouse at all, putting me first?
Am I idealistic to believe that if I worship, shop, work, play where I am supposed to that God will bring any mate He has chosen across my path?
Even given that you feel God is leading toward marriage, and you are considering that in evaluating a church, wouldn't it be wiser to seek a church (after where you serve) that has Godly mentoring people and couples? Because isn't it ONE of the churches responsibilities to prepare me? So my church can have a significant impact even if the spouse to be does not attend there.
So many times He has demonstrated that when I set myself aside and serve someone (ie: help them move when I'm tired) I SOMETIMES later find that there was something in it for me. But if the "what's in it for me" is at all in consideration then NONE of it works.
6. Shannon said the following at 12:44 PM on Dec 14:
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Thanks for the encouragement Suzanne!
7. V.V. said the following at 12:57 PM on Dec 14:
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I travelled half the world, and met tons of folks in college, and I ended up marrying the love of my life from our own "small pond" - the church we both grew up in. :-)
8. BDB said the following at 1:04 PM on Dec 14:
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Church-shopping seems counter-productive. The more mature someone is in their Christian walk, the more committed they will be to serving somewhere.
Granted, my grandmother did some church shopping. She left one church where she felt there was too much emphasis on being a dating service. She was looking for more emphasis on spiritual things.
One Sunday she walked two miles into town alone. She saw some people carrying Bibles and said, "Ah, I'll bet they're going to a good church." And followed them.
My grandfather, singing in the choir, wondered who this new girl was who could sing all the songs without looking at the hymnal...
9. Sara said the following at 1:29 PM on Dec 14:
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I think there is always something wrong when you go out "searching" for a spouse. One should be prepared for a spouse, prepared for marriage, etc, but to go out searching is always a bit much to me.
I never thought I would get married, and so early one I gave up looking for a man. By early on, I mean EARLY... I was 17. I had super high standards and I didn't think it would be possible for me to find a guy that met the long list I had mentally arranged. Soon after, I met my now husband.
In my experience, the people who are searching for a spouse have the most trouble finding one. The people who aren't searching for a spouse but rather working hard at the things God has called them to do and they enjoy (teaching Sunday School, playing in a volleyball league, working in missions, heading out to the movies on a regular basis, etc) are the ones that meet their spouse simply and without much stress.
10. Anna said the following at 1:54 PM on Dec 14:
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So true. I made the decision to stay at my church despite the lack of marriageable men. While I'm not married yet, I can't begin to count the many ways God has blessed my decision to remain faithful to my church and calling there. But, I am hoping the network I've established will help with the matchmaking part! :)
11. Morghan said the following at 2:41 PM on Dec 14:
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Obewan, I believe what Suzanne meant about robbing churches of finances and ministry workers is when ANYONE chooses not to have a home church where they tithe and serve. If you're going to a couple different churches a month, chances are none of them receive money or service from you.
12. NeedACatchyName said the following at 2:44 PM on Dec 14:
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I agree with BDB. While some people legitimately need to look for a new church for all kinds of reasons, a lot of mature Christians already have a commitment to serve at a particular church. Starting over again at a new church would be a step backwards in a lot of ways. Besides, I think a lot of singles tend to be very wary of people who are joining a group to meet the opposite gender, which can make it difficult to accomplish your goal of meeting potential mates.
As I've said before, a better idea would be for churches to get together with similar churches on missions projects and other common-goal tasks. That way, everyone could meet other singles while still serving in their current churches. Additionally, it would help foster a spirit of cooperation across theologically like-minded churches, and make a lot of projects more efficient since resources are being pooled. Assuming the politics of such an arrangement don't kill it (which, honestly, is what happens most of the time), it can be a real win-win situation.
13. Mark W said the following at 2:52 PM on Dec 14:
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@MarkS (#5)
"Isn't looking for a spouse at all, putting me first?
Am I idealistic to believe that if I worship, shop, work, play where I am supposed to that God will bring any mate He has chosen across my path?"
Let's think about this another way... Isn't looking for food at all, putting me first? Am I idealistic to believe that if I worship, shop, work, play where I am supposed to that God will bring food He has chosen across my path?
Yes. If someone asked *that* question, hopefully everyone would realize that they were being hopelessly idealistic and naive. Because God has provided a means by which we get food, and that's by working to earn a living so that we have money to buy it. And yet, it is God who provides our food. Is this contradictory? No. Because He has ordained a specific means by which He provides our food.
In the same way, yes, for all of us who are to be married, God will provide our spouse. But for most of us, at least of the male variety, the means by which He ordains we will find our spouse is by actively seeking her out. Look at Proverbs 18:22 - "He who finds a wife finds a good thing and obtains favor from the Lord." If a man finds a wife, to me that implies He was looking.
I think this is different for guys and girls, but for guys at least, I think saying "God will provide a wife" while doing nothing to seek her out is tantamount to saying "God will provide my food" while staying at home in your pajamas playing video games.
14. Kellie said the following at 3:14 PM on Dec 14:
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I was attending a small church with all of 5 20-somethings (2 of whom were my roommates) when I met my husband. I was very involved in the church, and spent each summer in some sort of ministry (summer camp,etc). But I ended up meeting my husband elsewhere.
15. Tamara (from Canada) said the following at 3:36 PM on Dec 14:
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This whole issue is where I've really come to appreciate somethng that is happening in my city in the last year or so. Once a month, all of the churches in my city come together for a young adults (18 to early 30s) worship and community-building night. It's really cool to see denominational lines crossed as we come together. It's been building a unique bond in young adults in my city. And it has allowed those in smaller churches to continue to serve in their churches and be a contributin part of that church family, while also having the opportunity to meet and get to know other single young adults in the area.
16. Nicole said the following at 3:45 PM on Dec 14:
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Attending a larger church will not guarantee that you will meet anyone that could be a potential spouse, though it will increase your chances. Church is a great place to find someone and should be the first place to look, but as I'm finding, it is not a spouse store and if getting married is a priority, alternative ways of meeting people will need to be considered. I really don't think that anyone should feel guilty about finding a new church, though, for whatever the reason because when it comes down to it, its no one else business.
17. Jeni said the following at 3:58 PM on Dec 14:
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In my experience, a larger pond does not mean there will be more men who are intentionally lookig for a wife nor even more dating opportunities. I'm a member of a mega-church. I've been involved in a whole variety of different serving opportunities through the 18 years of attendance and I have only dated one man from the church. Church hopping is looking pretty good!
18. Texas Craig said the following at 4:02 PM on Dec 14:
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BDB (#8):
I would actually disagree with you on this one. Having seen how inundated our American churches are with materialism and equating the U.S. culture with Christianity (listen to Francis Chan's most recent sermon on this - absolutely terrific!), I actually do most of my service through parachurch organizations rather than my local church community. And, not to try to toot my own horn, but I do more than most of the people that I know that are very committed to their churches. I sponsor many missionaries and orphans throughout the world, I lead a bible study made up of men from the church I go to, but I am going on a mission trip with another church. I have ministered to Asian students here in my city through a local college ministry, and I have gotten involved this Christmas in serving through a different local organization dedicated to helping the local community. Too often, I see churches trying to duplicate the work of parachurch organizations rather than partnering with them, and often the churches do it less effectively. Thus, I actually serve very little "through" my church. And, some of the most godly men I know are the same way - serving in many ways, through many ministries that are not affiliated with their "local church." I guess we do not see "the church" as being mainly a local church community, but rather the whole body of Christ, and feel our allegiance to that, rather than a specific local church.
That's just my $.02. :-)
Peace and grace!
TC
19. Jaye said the following at 4:44 PM on Dec 14:
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@ Frank #4 - I am the person you're talking about. I'm in my mid/late thirties and I've never been married and I do not feel as though God is calling me to a lifetime of singleness. And yet I chose to worship and serve in the same small church in Michigan for the entire time that lived there. Were there times when I didn't wonder if perhaps I might do some "visiting" at some of the other larger churches in the area? Of course! My church didn't have a moratorium on doctrine, and the community in which I lived wasn't so small that there wasn't a choice of other churches to attend whose doctrine was also sound but who might at the same time have a large and thriving singles program to offer. And yet at the same time, I knew that God was truly calling me to be a part of the church family at my smaller church, and I've never for a moment regretted that choice to stay there, even though I remain single - that's God's plan for me right now, and when it's His plan for it to change, I have no doubt that He'll let me know.
The reason I left that church body was to come to the Chicago area and to go to seminary, and out of all of the large churches with sparkly singles programs that are in this area, God has called me to another smaller, family oriented church, in which I know people and have been able to jump right into a position of service during a difficult and otherwise stressful time of transition. So once again I find myself in a church family which doesn't seem to offer God's choice of a mate for me, but I know that it's okay - it is God's will for me to serve and worship there. Now don't get me wrong. I truly LONG to be married with a deep and heartfelt desire which I can't completely express here. But that desire isn't the end-all-be-all of who I am, and it doesn't drive me in my choice of places to worship and serve. Psalm 37 says, "Delight yourself in the Lord, and He will give you the desires of your heart." Well, the chief desire of my heart is to love God and to be in fellowship with His people, and when I am obedient to Him in this, my peace comes in knowing that He will provide for me in EVERY way, and I even believe that this means the provision of a godly husband. And no, I'm not at seminary to get my MRS. degree!
20. Meredith said the following at 5:05 PM on Dec 14:
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It's a shame that you had to characterize your church as a "family church". Shouldn't they all be that way? I personally would think long and hard before joining a church that only catered to one age group - even if it did mean more potential spouses...
21. Kes said the following at 5:47 PM on Dec 14:
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I'm a Messianic believer; there aren't many like-minded people or fellowships in my area, so a few families and mine home-church. There's nobody in our congregation eligible for marriage aside from my siblings.
Last year, I decided to try a Messianic church about an hour away, as I was interested in the litergical service (and hoped to find more like-minded people whatever age!). My sister refused to go, saying that she wasn't searching for a husband. I rolled my eyes at that comment, as that wasn't my intention of going - even if I knew I wouldn't complain if I met someone there. ;-)
That first Saturday, as I sat in the pew, watching the rest of the congregation arrive (all of whom were old enough to be my parents and older), I did pray, "Oh please, let younger people come, too, God, please?"
At that moment, an old friend who used to attend services at our home-church walked in with her family, including her older brother. :-) To make a long(er) story short, we started talking and a month later, he asked me out.
And that's why I can't really give advice on whether or not to visit other churches to find younger people.
22. Melissa said the following at 6:25 PM on Dec 14:
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BDB (#8) GREAT story about your grandparents! :)
23. Vanessa said the following at 6:31 PM on Dec 14:
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Doesn't the Bible tell men to "find" a wife and how can they "find" a wife if they aren't out searching? Many of the patriarchs sent their servants searching for a suitable mate for their sons because none could be found in their geographical area.
Having one home church where you primarily serve/tithe/etc and networking with other (larger) churches who have active singles' ministries where you contribute in a smaller way along the lines of service/offerings/etc doesn't seem to be a bad idea. Then again...what "seems" to be good might not be.
I still can't figure out why solid Christian men who qualify for marriage and who want to get married can't find anyone because all I've ever seen is FAR too many single women and not nearly enough eligible single men around.
24. PJ said the following at 8:04 PM on Dec 14:
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I will commend boundless for what I consider to be sound advice (or at least advice I agree with). For Frank at #4, the author might not be there but I am currently living this situation - have been for 15 years since college.
While I am encouraged by the stories of finding a spouse at a small church, the last 15 years have been challenging (to say the least) to my optimism in this regard. And as far as small churches go, I wish my church was 100 (we are currently at 20-25). But God hasn't given me a peace about going anywhere else as of yet because of the hole it would lead in my current congregation.
I have also found it difficult to connect with other single ladies in other ministries that I've been involved in due to the sporadic nature of the events. It is difficult to develop relationships in the "pre-dating" phase without consistent contact. I've struggled to get to know girls well enough to determine if I want to pursue them (and the last few I have pursued have turned me down in various stages of the pursuit - all fairly early, however).
The bottom line I've come to realize over the years is that we all (married or single) deal with the same question: "Do I trust that God's plan for my life is better than my plan for my life?" While the circumstances around this question may change (should I change churches to find a spouse or stay where God wants me - Do I follow God's plan in raising a child, taking a job, etc, vs. my plan), the core question never really changes. For the most part, I have held strong in believing God's plan is better. But I certainly have my weak moments. But do I trust God even if He chooses not to grant the desire that I have to be married someday?
25. Amy said the following at 11:00 PM on Dec 14:
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I actually attend a large church and still find it difficult to meet people. Not just men, but women too. I have volunteered at our coffee counter and in the preschool area, as well as, the special events we have. About a year ago, the single small groups were no longer co-ed. The concern was that in a co-ed small group, people would be less likely to share deeper needs/concerns. I completely understand this reasoning and even think there to be valid truth behind it. However, there was no secondary group set up to encourage interaction between the opposite sex and to find friends of the same sex. The people I've met volunteering are usually older than myself and are married. I've lately been more frustrated, not because the church is failing to provide me a husband, but because I feel like they're not placing value on this season of life. I can see their devotion to the community, children, youth, and married couples, but the single adults have been left out. I talked with one of the staff members and was told that they hope to have something start up in the first part of next year. They've been saying this for a while, but I've decided to wait around a bit longer because of the other things the church offers me. I am given opportunities to use my gifts and I love their heart for the community. I like that we are challenged to tithe and I love that the pastor is so real. But I think that if in the next few months I don't see that they truly are concerned about helping me to grow specifically as a single person, then I will need to move on to a church that is interested in honoring where I am in my life.
26. Rachael said the following at 11:42 PM on Dec 14:
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People have different convictions/desires...should they stay in their small pond...should they leave...
You know, it's great that even when people make decisions (with or without regard to spouse searching)that others wouldn't deem the most respectable...God still works.
Doesn't mean we should sin thinking "oh, it's okay, God is ultimately in control."
No, we should not sin so that grace can increase.
But different people have different consciences...and to some degree there are grey areas...is it okay to 'leave' a church for such-and-such reason...or is it not okay....
Even if I think I'm doing A, B, or C because I think it's the right thing to do, maybe my selfishness is blinding me the whole time.
Or even if I think I made a stupid decision by doing A, B, or C, God can still work...in spite of me.
We should desire to do good and please Him.
But He can change our directions. He can close doors. He is still ultimately in control even when we wander.
But as for a practical tip...while it's different for everyone...if someone is in a small pond and if it doesn't go against their conscience to branch out...there is a possibility that marriage could be found in adding in an additional pond (something that involves the presence of members of the opposite sex). Doesn't mean you have to forsake your original pond...
27. Keith said the following at 12:43 AM on Dec 15:
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Finding a mate is like finding a job: you have to cast your net far and wide, because you really don't know where you will catch something good.
I did the church hopping, did internet dating sites, speed dating, going to the library to "accidentally" run into women, salsa dance lessons, cultural events where I knew there would a lot of Christian women, getting to know friend's sisters, and the list goes on....
It's essential to be connected to a church, but there is nothing wrong with skipping every third or fourth Sunday to explore other churches.
28. Renruojosa said the following at 4:14 AM on Dec 15:
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Marrying a Christian is non-negotiable, but the only Christians I know go to my church, none of the available men are my age, two are around my age (although there are many who are much younger). I work (so Summer camps etc are out of the question) and when I get home I'm just too tired to go out very often. Nevermind that I don't know any Christians outside of my church and have no clue hwere to start.
As a female, what am I supposed to do? The teaching is the best I've had, I attend with my family and serve where I can (and even this is hard as there is not much I can do -many hands make light work). I don't feel right about leaving/looking elsewhere, but it seems no man will even consider me. I don't even know how I would go about gettting involved in other churches... might make me too tired for any good use.
Obviously it would be best to meet spouses at church but it doesn't have to be that way. However, if there's no one suitable and I refuse to go to another church... is it just my own fault?
29. Alice said the following at 4:59 AM on Dec 15:
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Personally for me, I attend a medium sized church with not too many single men. However, I attend my church faithfully, tithe and am part of a ministry, but I do attend a young adults group at another church and Sunday evening service (our church doens't have one) in order to meet some other Christian men. I find though in my community, 75% are females and 25% are males, so we are all hoping the same males will "pick us up".
30. Jacob said the following at 7:15 AM on Dec 15:
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For what it's worth, I moved to a new city and ended up in a small church that only had one single girl. As the Lord would have it, that girl is now my fiancee and we marvel at how the Lord, in His Providence, brought us together.
31. Suzanne Hadley Gosselin said the following at 8:20 AM on Dec 15:
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FrankH: I would. I happen to have an anecdotal success story, but if I was still single, I would absolutely have the same perspective. Because I know I am ministering where God has called me for this season.
32. Michaella said the following at 8:21 AM on Dec 15:
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Thanks for the encouragement Suzanne. Isn't everything about faith in this walk with God? Looking at the facts can be discouraging but the TRUTH is that God CAN do for me what He has done for you. Enjoy your first Christmas with your husband!
33. MarkS said the following at 8:44 AM on Dec 15:
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@MarkW #13
The question really is how you look. You do what God wants you to do and all the while keeping your eyes open.
That word "find" that everyone is so giddy about is not what you think. "Find" does not equal "search".
Indeed that is a good parable for the whole discussion:
Two men are walking along the sidewalk.
The one stares at the concrete so he can "find" a quarter. But he bumps into everyone and everything and gets run over by a bus.
The other keeps his eye on what he is currently up to but his glance "just happens" to spot the quarter.
34. Mark W said the following at 10:31 AM on Dec 15:
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@MarkS #33
I agree with you, but I would say that if you don't have the gift of singleness, then getting married is one of those things that God wants you to do that you should be doing! It is the girl's place to patiently wait. It is the guy's place to actively seek. Even if this not explicitly stated anywhere in scripture anymore so than Proverbs 18:22, I believe it can be inferred from the masculine/feminine dynamic we're given in the Bible. I don't know you or your heart, so I'm certainly not accusing you of this, but I've known far too many men who use the excuse of "waiting on God" as a shield for their own passivity. "Waiting on God" doesn't mean you do nothing to actively bring about what you're waiting for - it just means that you trust that ultimately He will provide what you need in His timing, regardless of the means He uses to bring it to you.
35. Tami said the following at 11:28 AM on Dec 15:
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Hmm... I don't think looking at the facts and looking at the truth should really be too much different. :)
I think it's OK to soberly assess your situation so long as you're not leaving an awesome God out of the equation [See: Mary -- "How can this be, since I am a virgin?" (Luke 1:34)/"Behold, the bondslave of the Lord; may it be done to me according to your word" (Lk. 1:38)] I also think it's OK to challenge your own presumptions, prayerfully.
God can send your future spouse to your church of 100 (all it takes is one!).
God can also use your circumstances to prod you to ask Him: "God, I am feeling alone here. Why? What do you want me to do?" It may involve you getting outside of your church for a bit. He may show you a new place to go (maybe not a larger one, but one where He has something else to teach you!). He may send you to another church for one Sunday, just so you hear that pastor's message and get blessed by it. He may send you someplace else to recognize what your church DOES offer, and show you how you really should stay committed where you're at. You may meet someone -- even a friend -- at that "new place" and form a relationship that sends you off in new, positive directions... even if you never visit that particular church again. You may run into an old friend and rekindle a friendship you've been missing. You may simply visit and say, "Wow, it's good to see other believers who I would never otherwise meet!" Or, you may visit once, and be that "one guy" or "one gal" that someone's been praying would walk through the door.
We are each individuals. If you trust in God and commit your way to Him, He *promises* to make your path straight, and to let your righteousness shine like the noonday. These promises allow us to move about in freedom and to trust that as we make our daily decisions, God will help and guide us, and that if we're trusting Him, He can take even our missteps and use them for His glory.
I don't mean to make this sound simple. There's NO formula, and it's not as though we can reproduce anyone's theory in a lab environment. It's great to share stories, but what God did in one person's life, He will not necessarily do in another person's. We have to be careful not to think "Because God did X in my life, I therefore extrapolate that is how it will or should work for everyone, and therefore if that's not what is happening for someone else, they must (not be trusting God enough/must be searching too hard/must not be as ready for marriage as I was/etc.)."
36. Julie said the following at 11:32 AM on Dec 15:
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When I was single, I had large ponds to fish in--a really big and vibrant church filled with singles, and a Christian grad school with the gender ratio in my favor. That was good but at the church, I was just one of many single females. And many of the students I knew weren't in a hurry to get married. So it was ironic that I met my husband through my part-time job at a secular organization, a long commute away from the church and the grad school. There I met a married Christian man who took an interest in me and set me up with my husband, who he knew from his church. Totally caught me by surprise! Moral of the story--network, be in fellowship with people of all ages, and be prepared for opportunities that come your way.
37. Trisha said the following at 11:39 AM on Dec 15:
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The main reason a person should be going to church is to grow spiritually as a Christian not to find a spouse. She being involved in a single's ministry group you make friends of both genders but being in a single's ministry group should be to help you grow spiritually as a Christian single (you are a Christian first). I attend a large church and I do attend the single's ministry classes & I also attend a Bible study etc. with a singles ministry (starting going to those when we were between single's pastor's at the church I attend & there no classes). I have more acquaintances at church then friends because of the lack of common interests.
38. Jeremy said the following at 11:44 AM on Dec 15:
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MarkS (#33):
I agree completely; in fact "finding a quarter" is the exact image that comes to my mind when reading that verse. The image of a life-consuming quest that a number of people on this site propose seems like a very strange and counter-intuitive reading.
But, we need a proof-text verse and much of the NT teaching on marriage mentions that singleness is better, soooo...
39. BDB said the following at 11:50 AM on Dec 15:
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Texas Craig (#18) wrote:
>>Too often, I see churches trying to duplicate the work of parachurch organizations rather than partnering with them, and often the churches do it less effectively.<<
Gosh, comment #8 was too short to accomodate all that...
Yes, depending on the type of service one is called to, a para-church organization might be better. My church is pretty good at sending out short-term missionaries, for example, but its understood that it's just a taste. A portion of those who go short-term then join other organizations (like YWAM) for long-term service.
In terms of discipleship and leadership development, people need to stay put. Someone who is flitting from church to church or para-church to para-church is going to grow a lot less than someone who is plugged in and being mentored by those who are more mature Christians who are serving beside them.
But you do suggest an alternative to church-hopping: one can stay anchored in a church, and then go volunteer for a season with a soup kitchen; don't meet anyone, move on to a different organization the next year, etc.
40. Suzanne Hadley Gosselin said the following at 1:07 PM on Dec 15:
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Meredith #20,
Actually, when I say my church is a family church, I am saying that they DO cater primarily to one group...families...more specifically, families with young children. Yes, churches should strive to be hospitable to all age groups, but some churches seem to specialize in hitting a certain demographic.
41. Brittany said the following at 1:10 PM on Dec 15:
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Vanessa #23 - Right on, girl! It can get very frustrating watching eligible, Godly men in my community remain single year after year. There are many single women to choose from (including myself) who could be potential mates for these men!
A common theme on the Boundless blog is a whole lot of Christian men and women who are still single that can't seem to find mates for various reasons. Maybe Boundless could create an area where we can meet/get to know each other???
42. NeedACatchyName said the following at 1:44 PM on Dec 15:
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In response to Vanessa at #23:
I've lived in areas my entire life where there are more single guys in churches than girls, so if I were just to base things simply on my own experience, I would be unable to figure out why solid Christian women who qualify for marriage and who want to get married can't find anyone. But things aren't that simple, and the reality is that some areas have too many guys and some have too many girls.
You do bring up a good point though about needing to search outside of your geographic area. In my opinion, there needs to be far more emphasis on this in the church when looking for a spouse (maybe this is a good topic for a Boundless article?). Christians singles need to be more open to long distance relationships and/or geographic relocation for the purposes finding marriage if they live in an area where there aren't enough single Christians of the opposite gender. One thing you can do is encourage your friends who live other towns where there may be available Christians of the opposite gender to keep an eye out for people seeking a spouse. Then, if they believe they find someone who would be a good match for you, they can introduce you, even if it's only through email or Facebook.
43. Kelly-1 said the following at 12:04 AM on Dec 16:
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I attend 3 churches. Lately, I've heard God's prompting to focus on one church in particular.
It's the church that has all of ~30 regular members these days. 6 elder couples, 4 families, 3 single women, 2 widows.
I've been attending this church since I was a child and have never seen a single, available man walk through the door to attend a regular service. (when the men did come, they were already dating one of my sisters!)
And yet...
With the wedding of my youngest sister, suddenly all of the people at this church are speaking into my life. Telling me that they are sure God has someone in store for me. These conversations inevitably bring me to tears; it's just SO HARD to hear it after so many years of fruitless hope.
44. Mike Theemling said the following at 9:14 AM on Dec 16:
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Vanessa (#23) said:
"I still can't figure out why solid Christian men who qualify for marriage and who want to get married can't find anyone because all I've ever seen is FAR too many single women and not nearly enough eligible single men around."
It's in part because we are asking and yet going shot down by women who either intentionally delay marriage due to career/etc. or are holding out for an ideal soulmate.
I understand that not all Christian women fit this mold, but to imply that "Christian men aren't there" is an gross overstatement.
45. obewan said the following at 11:50 AM on Dec 17:
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#44. Mike Theemling said the following at 9:14 AM on Dec 16:
I understand that not all Christian women fit this mold, but to imply that "Christian men aren't there" is an gross overstatement.
------------------------------------
Amen and Amen to that!!!! If she wants to see the "ratio" flipped she just needs to move to any location near a major military base or where there are large defense contractors with many male engineers.
I lived and suffered with that situation 12 or 13 years and in large part that is why I found myself single in my mid-thirties. The male:female "ratio" at the worst times was 12:1. The women were EXTREMELY picky - even the less desirable ones and still, I know several who turned down some awesome guys and remained single into their 30's and beyond.
And as for church hopping, most of my guy friends (and I) commuted 60 miles to churches away from the military base to play volleyball and participate in the multi-church singles groups. We stayed true to our home church but were severely chastised by the head elder for pursuing women "not in our home fellowship".
Suffice it to say, 5 or 6 of my male buddies all married those "out of town" women. The Lord helps those who help themselves when it comes to some issues. Those couples are ALL serving the Lord together in some capacity and are very happy together now so I would never attempt to chastise them for "church hopping" or seeking mate in another town.
46. Daniel B said the following at 3:52 PM on Dec 17:
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"Isn't looking for a spouse at all, putting me first?"
Not at all. The desire for a spouse is a God-given desire. It's not good to be alone.
Plus, when you do find a spouse, that person will also have found what they are looking for - so how is that selfish for you to be a part of?
47. Daniel B said the following at 3:53 PM on Dec 17:
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Oh, and comment #44 nailed it.
48. Ashley said the following at 10:10 AM on Dec 18:
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45. Obewan:
If she wants to see the "ratio" flipped she just needs to move to any location near a major military base or where there are large defense contractors with many male engineers.
I can personally note that this is patently not true. I live and work a stone's throw from Wright Patterson AFB. Every church/house church/ministry group/Christian function I've been to has been undeniably female-heavy. -- In fact, it's been that way for years. My Dad has told both myself and my sis numerous times that the reason he became involved in a campus ministry in college here in Dayton was because of the extremely favorable ratio of women to men.
And no, I'm not one of those "extemely picky" women. Though I am intellegent and -- though not un-attractive -- I am less than beautiful. I've found, again through personal experience, that even engineers are a little afraid of women with both those qualities. It makes you challenging, but not hot enough to make up for the challenge.
49. BDB said the following at 12:43 PM on Dec 18:
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Ashley (#49) wrote:
>> that even engineers are a little afraid of women with both those qualities. It makes you challenging, but not hot enough to make up for the challenge.<<
I submit for your consideration that it's not the fact of possessing intelligence, it's what you do with it.
What I find is that women with intelligence and education sometimes become so confident in their own abilities that they refuse to listen. It DOES give me pause when someone refuses to listen to me - particularly when the subject in question is within my field of expertise but not hers. It might be blatantly clear that she is absolutely and completely wrong about how this particular part of the world works. But if I say that out loud, there will be an explosion. And usually they will sever the relationship because those women are not accustomed to anyone daring to challenge them.
It reminds me of something C.S. Lewis' future wife abruptly pointed out to him after she met his friends: he had surrounded himself with people who were too weak to challenge him. Women do this too.
But I know other women who will accept leadership. They are just as smart, but they are much more aware of where their expertise lies and where it does not. They are MUCH more willing to listen and ask questions when something is within my realm of experince and not theirs. It's much, much more pleasant to talk with them. And yes, part of those interactions includes discussing the specific boundaries where our areas of expertise overlap and where they do not.
The biggest mistake made by intelligent people is the leap from knowing more than everyone around them to thinking that they know everything.
If you want to use your intelligene, use it to study the men around you and compliment them on what they do well. Smart, detail-oriented people can develop the habit of giving people very precise compliments. I highly recommend it.
50. obewan said the following at 8:35 PM on Dec 19:
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Ashley #49:
Regarding patently untrue about ratios:
My mistake was stating ANY military base then. The church I went to was about 1/2 mile from the base and the guys with no cars used to walk. I will concede that for older people the ratio was heavily tilted to the women though. Between the ages of 22 and 35 I was not interested in 40 year old divorced women but there were many in the church due to the current divorce rate. Things might be different if I were there now since I am now older.