Too Little Desire for Marriage by Candice Watters on 11/05/2009 at 10:59 AM

When I wrote Get Married, one of the key criticisms I hoped to answer was the notion that you can want marriage too much. I explained the problem this way,

Today there's an added reason women hide their desire for marriage. They've been told and retold that nurturing such a desire will not only scare men off, but worst of all, it may lead them to idolatry. I see and hear this warning a lot among Christians.... That wanting marriage is good "as long as you don't make an idol out of it."

I hoped we were gaining traction with all our talk on Boundless about biblical marriage being the antidote to idolatry in our romantic relationships. But this Sunday, during an excellent Reformation Day sermon, the guest pastor started talking about the dangers of good things becoming the ultimate things. First in his list of possible idols: marriage. I cringed.

Why? Because not all marriages are alike. And some are less idol-prone than others. But that rarely, if ever, gets said.

Knowing the credentials of the guest preacher (as well as his happy marriage and family life) and having utmost respect for his doctrine, I was surprised and disappointed. I suspect if I could talk to him and get some clarification, he'd say that what he meant was when we desire marriage in a non-biblical way, it can become an idol. And I'd agree with that.

The trouble is that he didn't state that distinction, and it's key. Especially in our churches, where marriage is so little taught and so often crumbling. The last thing couples need is a new reason to pour less of themselves into their relationships. And for singles, it's just further reason to be timid about getting married.

I was encouraged and renewed in my conviction that we often desire godly marriage too little, this morning while reading Gary Thomas's Pure Pleasure. He writes,

We shame singles by making them think it is a sin and idolatrous to desire marriage: "You should be happy in God alone!" But God designed most of us to marry. Acknowledging this desire isn't arrogant rebellion; it's humble surrender to his creative design.

He doesn't deny that earthly pleasures, marriage among them, "can blind us from God and steal our hearts away from him, and that good things can become bad things," but he does remind us that it's not inevitable.

If such pleasures [he's speaking specifically about those in Deuteronomy 8:7-9] would inevitably lead us away from God, he wouldn't give them.... [God tells us] how to responsibly enjoy pleasure in a way that brings us to God instead of pulling us away from God.... We embrace pleasures responsibly by enjoying them according to God's design... [and] we protect pleasure by acknowledging God.

The reason it's impossible to make a marriage as God designed it an idol is that such a marriage places God at the center of the relationship. Marriage in God's image is all about sacrifice and service; placing the other's needs ahead of our own, and all to the glory of God. Not only is such a relationship immune to being idolatrous, it's the solution to the twin epidemics of divorce and marital delay.

I wonder how many people hear the unqualified "marriage can be an idol" warning and think that applies to all marriages -- even those striving to fit God's design.

Too Little Desire for Marriage by Candice Watters on 11/05/2009 at 10:59 AM

When I wrote Get Married, one of the key criticisms I hoped to answer was the notion that you can want marriage too much. I explained the problem this way,

Today there's an added reason women hide their desire for marriage. They've been told and retold that nurturing such a desire will not only scare men off, but worst of all, it may lead them to idolatry. I see and hear this warning a lot among Christians.... That wanting marriage is good "as long as you don't make an idol out of it."

I hoped we were gaining traction with all our talk on Boundless about biblical marriage being the antidote to idolatry in our romantic relationships. But this Sunday, during an excellent Reformation Day sermon, the guest pastor started talking about the dangers of good things becoming the ultimate things. First in his list of possible idols: marriage. I cringed.

Why? Because not all marriages are alike. And some are less idol-prone than others. But that rarely, if ever, gets said.

Knowing the credentials of the guest preacher (as well as his happy marriage and family life) and having utmost respect for his doctrine, I was surprised and disappointed. I suspect if I could talk to him and get some clarification, he'd say that what he meant was when we desire marriage in a non-biblical way, it can become an idol. And I'd agree with that.

The trouble is that he didn't state that distinction, and it's key. Especially in our churches, where marriage is so little taught and so often crumbling. The last thing couples need is a new reason to pour less of themselves into their relationships. And for singles, it's just further reason to be timid about getting married.

I was encouraged and renewed in my conviction that we often desire godly marriage too little, this morning while reading Gary Thomas's Pure Pleasure. He writes,

We shame singles by making them think it is a sin and idolatrous to desire marriage: "You should be happy in God alone!" But God designed most of us to marry. Acknowledging this desire isn't arrogant rebellion; it's humble surrender to his creative design.

He doesn't deny that earthly pleasures, marriage among them, "can blind us from God and steal our hearts away from him, and that good things can become bad things," but he does remind us that it's not inevitable.

If such pleasures [he's speaking specifically about those in Deuteronomy 8:7-9] would inevitably lead us away from God, he wouldn't give them.... [God tells us] how to responsibly enjoy pleasure in a way that brings us to God instead of pulling us away from God.... We embrace pleasures responsibly by enjoying them according to God's design... [and] we protect pleasure by acknowledging God.

The reason it's impossible to make a marriage as God designed it an idol is that such a marriage places God at the center of the relationship. Marriage in God's image is all about sacrifice and service; placing the other's needs ahead of our own, and all to the glory of God. Not only is such a relationship immune to being idolatrous, it's the solution to the twin epidemics of divorce and marital delay.

I wonder how many people hear the unqualified "marriage can be an idol" warning and think that applies to all marriages -- even those striving to fit God's design.

Comments

[1. RLynn said the following at 11:24 AM on Nov 5:]

1

I agree, Candace, too many of us who are single (and especially those of us who are older singles (40+) have been shamed by other believers into thinking that wanting to get married (at "your age?") is a bad thing--so we don't talk about it. We've spent decades in churches that are happy to have us volunteer and do a lot of the duties, but completetly ignore that a lot of these people would love to get married! We get a lot of "just be content", which is true, but at the same time, it denies and belittles deep desires. This is especially difficult if you're in a church like mine where there's an announcement of a new baby every week and programmings is heavily weighted to families with children.

[2. Jeremiah said the following at 11:51 AM on Nov 5:]

2

Genesis 2:18: “Then the LORD God said, ‘It is not good for the man to be alone; I will make him a helper suitable for him.’”

Proverbs 5:18: “May your fountain be blessed, and may you rejoice in the wife of your youth.”

Proverbs 18:22: “He who finds a wife finds what is good and receives favor from the LORD.”

Proverbs 19:14: “House and wealth are an inheritance from fathers, But a prudent wife is from the LORD.”

My question for this pastor would be: are there any other instances in scripture where something that is clearly described as a gift from the Lord is twisted into idolatry? I have a hard time understanding this sermon example. I can certainly picture dangerous and destructive relationships (especially non-Christian) where the husband, wife, or BF/GF becomes an idol. However, I have a real hard time understanding how the desire for biblical God-honoring marriage can ever be idolatry... I thought that good gifts were good gifts. Period.

My second question, directed more to people on this board, is: Does anyone else feel like they are being denied God’s favor because of personal or generational sin? For example, I am 32 and have a deep desire for marriage. I have been ready for it for YEARS... house, job, finished with school, mature Christian, etc. etc. I no longer consider myself a youth. Yet I have never once had even the opportunity to “enjoy the wife of my youth.” My relationship history is limited.

To me this feels like God’s wrath or punishment. Are we like the generation of Israelites that were cursed to wander in the desert; or like the later generation that was exiled? What have we done so wrong that God has left so many fervent prayers unanswered?

I am SO tired of battling this and all the loneliness, distraction, false starts, temptation for substitutes, etc. that the quest has entailed. I’m exhausted. Even reading Boundless this week is tiring. And there are people on here in their 40's that haven't yet been married? That's too late. How can God let his people suffer for so long?

[3. DannieA said the following at 11:55 AM on Nov 5:]

3

no offense Candice, but i think the preacher was spot on...

Please give us singles some credit for having an above average IQ and knowing that this statement does NOT mean shying away from being marriage minded but keeping a balance between a selfless Godly marriage and a selfish marriage.

people that shy away from marriage will look at any excuse to not be married or to continue living in a way that is most productive to THEM...

my 2cents :)

[4. BAC said the following at 12:01 PM on Nov 5:]

4

Candice,

I agree. I think that the fear of making an idol out of marriage has become one of the reasons why seeking marriage intentionally is not taught in church anymore. It is as if, as young adults, we are merely left to our own devices, expected to simply stumble into marriage at one point or another. This is precisely what many of us do and why some of us end up married (if at all) much later in life than we would have 50 years ago.

I know that in the churches I have attended, it was standard to not really talk about marriage until people were actually married. There was no preparation for unmarried persons that went beyond 'wait' and 'don't have sex while you are waiting.' Neither of these directions were given with any instruction or mention of intentionality. You just sat there and hoped a spouse would fall (almost literally) out of the sky. Many of my peers had NO clue what marriage really entailed until they married. The pressure has gotten to some of them (at times with catastrophic results) as they go from being told to, essentially give marriage VERY little thought, to actually attempting a successful marriage.

[5. Lynn said the following at 12:01 PM on Nov 5:]

5

Hmm... Is there a difference between wanting marriage in a "non-biblical way" and wanting marriage "too much"?

Is it possible for someone to simultaneously have a biblical view of marriage, and yet place too much emphasis in their lives on finding/pursuing a mate (such that everything else suffers for the sake of getting married)?

[6. Scott said the following at 12:16 PM on Nov 5:]

6

We shame singles by making them think it is a sin and idolatrous to desire marriage: "You should be happy in God alone!" But God designed most of us to marry. Acknowledging this desire isn't arrogant rebellion; it's humble surrender to his creative design.

It’s a pity that so many see shaming singles for their singleness as the solution to this problem. Often, those who like to beat the marriage drum are the mirror-image of the above; they ‘shame singles by making them think it is a sin and idolatrous to not desire marriage’. Insisting on marriage for those who don’t particularly desire it is arrogant.

He doesn't deny that earthly pleasures, marriage among them, "can blind us from God and steal our hearts away from him, and that good things can become bad things," but he does remind us that it's not inevitable.

The same is true of singleness. Listening to many on the marriage mandate-ish side of the fence, you could easily get the impression that, absent a unique super-charged ministry ala the apostle Paul, singleness necessarily becomes a bad thing.

Debbie Maken & Al Mohler are perfect examples.

[7. RLynn said the following at 12:22 PM on Nov 5:]

7

In reference to #2 "...there are people on her in their 40's that haven't been married? That's too late."

Maybe...maybe not. I'm not unrealistic, but rather hopeful--I still hear of women (and the occasional man) who is married for the first time in their 40's (and 50's)!

[8. Olivia said the following at 12:34 PM on Nov 5:]

8

Jeremiah, I hear your hurt and disappointment regarding this area in your life. My own "love life" feels very much like the wilderness, however as bad as it may look God is still able. Just like when the Israelites were walking in the wilderness those 40 years, God never left them or forsaked them. He provided manna from heaven, quail for their meat and their shoes never wasted.

There are times when I get mad at God and cry myself to sleep at night, but I can't allow myself to stay in that place or else bitterness will take root. I believe we are allowed to be mad at God and question Him, however, we need to know who we speak to. He is God of the universe, maker of the heavens and the earth. Just like you may be feeling like your love life is in the wilderness, God is able to provide you a wife.

God is the giver of all gifts and a wife for you, or a husband for me, would be a gift. But my love for God should not be contingent on what He gives to me but who He is. He should always remain our eternal hope. No matter what happens or what the enemy says, our hope should always rest in God alone. When we hope, we are able to cling to what our eyes can not see in the natural. I don't know if I will get married or not, but I will hope.

I'm sure you will get plenty of advice from this site on where to turn to meet nice women, but don't lose hope in God. He has never lost hope for you and your salvation.

[9. JP said the following at 12:35 PM on Nov 5:]

9

"when we desire marriage in a non-biblical way, it can become an idol"

Thank you for that. I have tried to explain to my female friends it's ok to want to be married, but the idol thing keeps coming up, especially from the married women I know!

Why do I want to get married
1. To serve God
2. To give God the glory in the triumphs and sufferings of marriage
3. To remain pure for one man and submit to him for the rest of my life
4. To raise God fearing children
5. To support my husband spiritually so he can serve God better
6. To resist temptations to sin

Do those reasons make me an idolatress? Let's see I'm putting God first, and I am worshiping only Him, and I'm desiring something he gave me...So I'm going to go with no.

Thanks for the post. Very affirming.

[10. Julie said the following at 12:44 PM on Nov 5:]

10

I know Debbie Maken has written about how we face one of the most dysfunctional mating structures in history, and yet rather than recognizing it, people talk about it as God's will. My guess is that people like this pastor and others don't really know what to say to singles (they should read Boundless!), so they say things that aren't helpful and are in fact, counterproductive.

Also, as a generation, the ones before us didn't have nearly as many people marrying late or staying single. So there's an empathy gap there, and perhaps a confusion about why there are so many singles.

[11. Ruth said the following at 12:56 PM on Nov 5:]

11

Thank you for addressing this Candace and really thinking critically about what biblical marriage really is. I have observed that so often many Christians including myself use our emotions to gage when and where the pursuit of biblical marriage is acceptable. Of course their are boundaries and guidelines within the realm of marriage...this is no doubt a given. But what I am getting at here is this : Who is setting those guidelines? Is it the church, one's interpretation of the Bible, feelings? God is the author and finisher of our faith and He is the author and finisher of marriage. As He has guided His children through out the centuries He will continue to do so...even in marriage.

[12. AshleyE said the following at 1:00 PM on Nov 5:]

12

Thank you for writing this, Candice!
I totally agree with your post. Why is it that so many singles feel like their overwhelming desire for a healthy, godly, Christian marriage is a taboo subject when around other singles and especially married people? So many singles smile and say, "I'm so content in the Lord right now I don't feel any need for marriage." I believe when singles say that they are either not in a position to be married (for financial, educational, etc. reasons), truly do have the gift of singleness, or are not in step with God's design and purpose for His children in marriage.

But I really don't think it's about contentment vs. discontentment. It's about learning how to daily lay down your desires for the hope deferred (the hope for marriage) in an effort to be a holy and pleasing sacrifice unto the Lord. My discontent in being single is what propels me forward. The deep desire to be the best wife and mother possible, to run a home that is hospitable and comfortable, to raise God-fearing children is what encourages me to stay the course, to seek God daily, and to take purposeful steps in cultivating wifely and motherly skills.

[13. Last One Home said the following at 1:04 PM on Nov 5:]

13

People automatically assume that if you REALLY want to be married, you must be having motive problems.

I've experienced this with multiple older women in the church, and with comments made by well meaning people on Boundless. Idolatry IS a serious issue; marriage won't make you less selfish or depressed or whatever-- it won't automatically make you feel beautiful or loved. BUT God does mean for marriage to help with some problems, and to give blessings. So let that stand on its own as truth!

I don't "just want marriage" as the institution itself-- I'm not hankering after a shiny diamond status symbol on my finger that says "someone wants me".

But I do have a specific man whom I have deep affection for, and I would like to commit to his life and be able to show my affection and admiration in marriage-only ways... so do I want marriage??

YES, AND AWFULLY BADLY!

And I would like for women to quit judging other women's motives. I think married women are all so worried that we single girls have these "heads in the clouds" dreams of perpetually romantic, totally fulfilling marriages that they have to bring us down a notch.

[14. Jess said the following at 1:09 PM on Nov 5:]

14

I wasn't at the sermon, but let's be biblical: anything can become an idol. And in many a single’s life, in my life, at various times I put pursuit of marriage above my pursuit of God. In my heart, I have not believed that God doesn’t bring good gifts to me because I have not yet married. God gave his one and only Son that I might believe and have faith that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and have eternal life in Him. In that context, I can understand the pastor’s point.
Now, as someone who is older and waiting on the Lord to become a wife, I know that my life is given to me everyday to bring glory to God and find my treasure in Him. This includes the conviction that God made me and knows me. He is not unfamiliar with my desires; He has been sweet to me. I have been convicted to be unabashed in asking the Lord to bring me to my husband. This includes asking others who are close to me for connections with other young men. This also means that I have surprised people when asked “So, are you married,” my immediate response is “Not yet, but I would like to be.” I’m past caring about being shamed into silence- I know that I am praying in God’s will. God is using my singleness to be about God’s business-His glory, my sanctification. And I pray that in God’s time, He will use marriage to do that in my and my future husbands’ lives.
And to Jeremiah- keep praying. Our God is faithful, even unto death.

[15. Heather said the following at 1:34 PM on Nov 5:]

15

I just don't get this way of thinking.

Seriously. Were we put here for marriage? Are we all MEANT to be married? If so, fine. Then we should seek it, desire it, strive for it, want it. IF that is our purpose. If that is our goal & purpose.

But if our goal & purpose is to glorify God & reflect His image in all that we do - in everything - every situation we find ourselves in, how is it not unhealthy & yes, even idolotrous, to desire marriage too much? What if marriage is not in the plans for you? Should one really spend their whole life wanting something & seeking something that may very well not be in the plans for them and is certainly not the reason they were put here on this earth?

Of coures you can want marriage too much. If you want it so much it's all you think about, it's all you're seeking, it's somehow tied in to what you think you were put here to be and do, then yes - that is TOO much.

Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, and mind. Love your neighbor as yourself. Why do either of those things require marriage?

And the "twin epidemics of divorce and marital delay"?!?! Are you serious?! One is a sin. The other may very well be God's intention for many people & possibly our culture in general right now. What a completely offensive statement.

[16. Benjamin said the following at 1:37 PM on Nov 5:]

16

"no offense Candice, but i think the preacher was spot on...

Please give us singles some credit for having an above average IQ..."

Exactly*. Food and drink are good things, yet Scripture speaks several times to the dangers of the desire for them getting out of hand. We don't need to constantly reassure people that food and drink are in fact good, because they know that.

The desire for marriage can also get out of hand. There is no reason to cringe at that or try to soften the statement, especially if the pastor acknowledged upfront that marriage is itself a good thing.

* Well, I don't think one can fairly say that singles as a whole have an above-average IQ, but let's say average.

[17. Adam said the following at 1:57 PM on Nov 5:]

17

Candice,

Why? Because not all marriages are alike. And some are less idol-prone than others. But that rarely, if ever, gets said.

The problem is that, whether or not marriage becomes an idol has nothing to do with the marrriage itself, but, rather, has to do with the heart.

The reason it's impossible to make a marriage as God designed it an idol is that such a marriage places God at the center of the relationship.

However, again, the question remains as to whether God must therefore grant marriage. I again come back to a question I have asked over and over again. Can God say "no" to a person's request for a spouse? If God can say "no" to a person's request for a spouse, and even after God has said "no," [at least for this season of your life anyway] you say that you have some entitlement to it, then, yes, you are making marriage an idol. You are making marriage an idol because you desire to serve God in a way he has not called you to serve him.

Finally, this idea that "God designed most of us to marry" needs to be challenged. There is no Biblical evidence for this. We are not incomplete in our essence without marriage. This is what I believe is the heart of the idolatry of this line of thinking. We are not entitled to marriage just because we want it. If you view marriage is something you need to complete you, then you will always say that, when it comes to who you are as a person, you are not enough, even with Christ Jesus as your Lord.

Now, again, with regards to Genesis 2:18, I would like to challange people who throw that passage out there to examine it in its context. The man's inherent nature is *not* what is being addressed in this context. Even worse, the woman fails miserably as a helper for the man and solution to the "not good" in chapter 3, and is told that she will continue to try to dominate him in 3:16.

My question for this pastor would be: are there any other instances in scripture where something that is clearly described as a gift from the Lord is twisted into idolatry?

The answer is "absolutely." In fact, the crops are considered to be a blessing of God for our food, and yet, the Israelites over and over again went to these pagan fertility gods and goddesses because the crops of the pagans were succeeding, and their crops were not. Here, something good such as crops became such an idol that it even lead to other idolatries.

Another example would be the serpent of Numbers 21:5-9. This serpent was made to heal the Israelites from the biting of the firey serpents that had come upon them because they spoke against God. Obviously, this was for their good. However, in 2 Kings 18 we find Hezekiah had to tear it down because until his day, the people were burning incense to it [2 Kings 18:4]! Also, reading the story of the Israelites in the wilderness, it was amazing how, whenever God would remove blessings from them, they would start complaining. The Bible very strongly supports the idea that, yes, even blessings of God can become an idol. In fact, I would argue that God, throughout the scriptures, takes away his gifts to us in order to show us our idolatry more clearly.

I would also point out that the passages that Jeremiah sights in the book of Proverbs have parallels to the notion of pursuing wisdom. The book of Proverbs says that we are to pursue wisdom above all. Hence, I would argue that what this means is that, in order to truly understand marriage, we must first be married to lady wisdom. We must seek her like gold and silver. Only when we find our fulfillment in God and his wisdom will we ever be able to love our spouses in the way that we should. That is why I fear that this idea that we "need" marriage will cause us to try to make our spouse something for which they were not designed, and ultimately, end up destroying the relationship.

The reason why I believe that his warning of marriage becoming an idol in the pursuit of marriage will never go away is simply because our hearts are idol factories, and we can take even the good gifts of God and pervert them into idols. I think that most people will always recognize that, when you start saying that you are created for marriage, or you need marriage like you need food, you are, indeed, making marriage an idol. I think that is the first thing that hits people whenever they hear statements like this. Hence, until those ideas are taken away, yes, people will always view this position as idolatrous.

God Bless,
Adam

[18. Candice Watters said the following at 2:32 PM on Nov 5:]

18

Benjamin, aside for the occasional psycho-stalker story in the news, what specifically, do you mean by "the desire for marriage can get out of hand?"

Remember here, folks, that Adam had perfect relationship with God--he literally walked with Him in the garden. Yet God said, "it's not good for man to be alone."

God made Eve. Marriage was His idea. And yes, to those of you who've raised this point: it is His will for most of us.

Only recently, culturally, have we seen in the church the rise of marriage as an optional lifestyle equal to intentional singleness apart from a call to celibate service.

I'm not trying to condemn those of you who've commented who are single beyond your expectations and desire. To you I say keep hoping and praying. God is faithful. But to those who've said in effect, "back off, I like my single life," I'm just suggesting that doesn't seem to find a place in Scripture. We have a responsibility and a calling to marriage and family making. And when singles are denied that because of circumstance, it's tragic, not praiseworthy.

[19. Jo said the following at 2:53 PM on Nov 5:]

19

Yeah, I agree with others who've said that marriage absolutely can become an idol. And it's probably a heck of a lot more likely when you're not in one. 'Grass is greener' mentality is pervasive and it's never a good thing. It's good and right to desire marriage, but it's not good and right to focus all our energy on it, to dwell on it day and night and to put all our efforts into obtaining it at the expense of all else.

I had a very interesting and enlightening (and saddening) experience a couple of years ago at a work outing where two male colleagues were discussing their lives. Both were mid-thirties, one had been married for about 10 years and the other was single. Both were bemoaning their state. Both were lamenting their lack of what the other had. Both (in that moment at least) were dissatisfied.

Both had also been drinking, which probably didn't help.

Anyway, this is the problem I see, our tendency to look at what other people have and think that if only we had that all our lives would be complete. We might not articulate that thought, but it's there all the time and rather than indulge it we need to root it out and remind ourselves that what we have and who we are is good enough for God to work with. YES we should ask Him for good gifts. But if any of those gifts becomes more important to us than the giver, we're in trouble.

[20. DannieA said the following at 3:09 PM on Nov 5:]

20

Benjamin #16

Touche....ok, but I think for the most part the singles that come here have average if not above avg. skills...just by reading the posts.

[21. Frustrated said the following at 3:23 PM on Nov 5:]

21

I hear Jeremiah's pain, and I echo it many times. Candice said this: Remember here, folks, that Adam had perfect relationship with God--he literally walked with Him in the garden. Yet God said, "it's not good for man to be alone."

So why are we still alone? I've been a Christian for 16 years and I struggle with this! Is God a cruel God? Why *does* he let us suffer for so long, with potentially no end in sight?

[22. Courtney P. said the following at 3:24 PM on Nov 5:]

22

Great post. I am 22 and I feel like it is ok for me to say I want to get my masters, but not ok for me to say I want to be married. I am just know coming to a place to were i can embark on a relationship what up with that lol:)

[23. em said the following at 3:34 PM on Nov 5:]

23

really good post - speakers / leaders / clergy are looked to for counsel in very sensitive areas. It makes sense to qualify more, generalize less. Sure, the desire for marriage can be a consuming idol but that doesn't mean that if you desire marriage strongly that it is an idol.

[24. Erica said the following at 3:37 PM on Nov 5:]

24

In reference to #2 and #7. Yes, it’s a long wait. I personally know two women one 45 and one 42 who have gotten married for the first time this year. As their friend I’ve watched the Lord bring them each wonderful, sane, God loving men. I’ve had the privilege of witnessing their lives over many years as they waited and have watched them take the courageous journey of keeping their hearts tender and alive to both God and their unmet desire. And that is the real challenge for anyone who waits for anything. Of course their lives have special significance to me as I am 32 and also am waiting.

To address #2 The more I lean into God's heart in this journey the less inclined I am to believe that God is holding out something good as a punishment. I, of course, don’t know what his purposes are. I’ve had my share of painful distraction in my journey, many day’s, night’s of crying out to God, begging for relief.
Things really did shift for me though when I started to believe more that God was right inside it with me that even though he didn’t rush in to fill the space he knew about it intimately. These day’s I experience more and more His showing up in my most pain filled, empty moments.
In my walk, I trust simply that he will correct me if I need to be, because I ask and because he knows my deepest heart is for His kingdom. In fact, he knew that long before I did. This journey has also been a process of him showing me that my deepest heart really is for Him. I’m so grateful to know that.
Could I have learned this inside a marriage? Maybe.
I do understand the pain in your questions. I totally understand those moments when the pain seems much clearer and louder than the voice of a loving God.

[25. Adam said the following at 4:05 PM on Nov 5:]

25

Candice,

Remember here, folks, that Adam had perfect relationship with God--he literally walked with Him in the garden. Yet God said, "it's not good for man to be alone."

And yet, Candice, where does the text ever say that this is a part of the way he was created? The text mentions nothing here about his essence. The context is that of a "helper." Not only that, but as I said in my last post, the woman fails in this role in chapter 3, and, as a consequence to her sin, she will fail at this repeatedly [Genesis 3:16].

The point is that ultimately it must be God who fulfills this role because women will always fail at this simply because they are sinners. That is why I say that there seems to be an expectation that is being developed here that cannot ultimately be fulfilled except by God himself [Psalm 46:1].

God made Eve. Marriage was His idea. And yes, to those of you who've raised this point: it is His will for most of us.

Candice, can you make an argument for the idea that "it is his will for most of us?"

Only recently, culturally, have we seen in the church the rise of marriage as an optional lifestyle equal to intentional singleness apart from a call to celibate service...

But to those who've said in effect, "back off, I like my single life," I'm just suggesting that doesn't seem to find a place in Scripture. We have a responsibility and a calling to marriage and family making. And when singles are denied that because of circumstance, it's tragic, not praiseworthy.

Again, Candice, I am concerned that these things just simply are not scriptural. I really don't care about the way things always were. I think even those cultures had their sins. We need to allow scripture to speak for itself, and that is why, again, I would simply ask for proof for this assertion, since it is my contention that, when we do let scripture speak for itself, it tells a different story. While it is true that all singles need to be serving God in the way that they live [is that what you mean by celebate service??????], there is no place in scripture anywhere that says that almost all individuals have a call to marriage and familymaking.

God Bless,
Adam

[26. SC said the following at 4:19 PM on Nov 5:]

26

If idolatry is attempting to use something other than God to provide the security only He can provide then a desire for a (biblical?) marriage can be just that.

I think much of the confusion here arises from what exactly is meant by a 'biblical' marriage. If by biblical marriage is meant one man with one woman (ideally both Christians) in a lifelong covenant, with the intention of being fruitful and multiplying, etc., then it seems a desire for (biblical) marriage to give the peace, assurance, security, belonging, etc that only God can provide, I think you'd have to concede that biblical marriage can become an idol.

In a concrete sense, "this desire for marriage can get out of hand" through despair that one's life is somehow less for not having a spouse, or thinking that one will be delivered from struggles (most notably, lust) if they are married. Though marriage undoubtedly provides a legitimate outlet for sexual desire, companionship, etc., relying on and trusting in marriage, not Jesus is idolatry.

If, however, what is meant by biblical marriage is an expression of Christian worship of, and subservience to God then it seems this is only one section (albeit an important one) of the Christian's worship and devotion to God.

That being the case, it would be absurd to suggest that the worship of God could become an impediment to worshipping God, so the speaker in question almost certainly had the first definition in mind.

Hopefully this hasn't come off too cold or unloving; I'm in essay mode.

[27. Mary J said the following at 4:29 PM on Nov 5:]

27

Candice, thank you so much for writing this!!! You are absolutely spot on.

Adam (#17) I believe we *are* incomplete in our essence without marriage, and when we realise this, it opens us up to God in a profound way. Marriage is written into the very deepest part of our nature. The very desire for sexual union - the realisation that I am not enough by myself - is what points us to God!

We need marriage *because* we need God. Adam needed Eve because God is not alone: God is a family. He is a loving communion of three Persons. As long as Adam was alone, man could not glorify God and love Him in the most perfect way possible - by imitating His own self-giving, total, fruitful Love.

Ever since discovering the Theology of the Body, it blows my mind that our sexuality (broken by sin, but redeemed by Christ) is the instrument God chooses to draw us closer to Him. As a woman, I know that I am incomplete without my husband, but to be able to experience this incompleteness is a great gift! As painful as my singleness is, it is also a joyful time, because the more I experience my deep emptiness and incompleteness without my husband, the more I can recognise my utter emptiness and incompleteness without God. And the more I desire marriage, the more I desire God. Even if He never gives me a husband, I will praise Him for helping me to love and desire marriage more, because it has helped me to love and desire Him more! Even single people who never marry can live their life in a deeply "marital" way - by recognising our incompleteness and giving it to God, to let Him fill us.

I believe it is profoundly natural and *right* to want to marry to experience union and a deep sense of completion; God has written this desire into our very bodies as male and female. The self-emptying and vulnerability of marriage prepares us for our self-emptying before God. And the sense of completion we experience in marriage is a blessed foreshadowing of our true completion with God.

[28. a sassy sister said the following at 5:14 PM on Nov 5:]

28

Here we go again.....

While I completely understand Candice's concerns, I think we should be honest here: many of the commenters on the Boundless Line are singles who would like to get married. I don't think those who are argue that the desire for marriage can become idolatrous are saying that the desire, in and of itself, is a terrible thing. But I think as a single, we need to be mindful of the reality that not every person is going to get married, and in addressing that desire for marriage (GOING TO GOD FIRST, then in community with other believers) that we cannot talk about marriage as a "norm". Because we talk about marriage in that terminology, we're talking about it in a cultural sense, not a Biblical one, which turns it into an "us" versus "them" mentality, not to mention a social hierarchy. I think that such a mindset has fueled more division in churches and has made it more difficult to have genuine, authentic, intergenerational community as the body of Christ. Single Christians are part of the family of God, and it would be best if we stopped using marital status as a marker for maturity, success, and adulthood. The last time I checked, spiritual maturity is reflected in the fruit of the Spirit, and marriage is not necessarily an indicator of that.
Marriage is a covenant, and yes, God designed marriage. But God did not design marriage as the answer to loneliness---there are countless marriages in churches across America who are literally wasting away due to loneliness(and other issures). Eve was created to be a helper suitable to Adam to fulfill GOD'S purposes and plans for Adam. It is one thing to say that a person's existence helped to fulfill great purposes for their lives, but quite another to imply that a person COMPLETES their existence and meaning. To do so would imply that your worth is tied to another person, and it is not.

[29. BDB said the following at 5:42 PM on Nov 5:]

29

SC (#26) wrote:

>>If idolatry is attempting to use something other than God to provide the security only He can provide then a desire for a (biblical?) marriage can be just that. <<

I think this is the important take away from the sermon. Let me try and explain.

Thinking about this post today, I can't remember any sermon that talked about marriage being a blessing. But I've heard lots and lots and lots that talk about how marriage is work, work, work, then some struggle and more work. In short, it comes across as being the equivalent of working in a coal mine with hand tools.

I think ths happens with pastors who do marriage counseling. They spend so many hours with people who are struggling in their marriage because they are being unrealistic in their expectations and end up on the verge of divorce because they thought it should be easy and wonderful all the time, and it's not. So they try and re-set expectations for everyone - telling married people to expect work, work, work, and single people not to make it an idol that will give you everything you ever wanted.

This gets trickier when you add it to a culture where half of people come from divorced homes. They might see it as a coin toss: heads marriage is a blessing; tails it's a curse. And they've seen their parent's marriage be a curse, so they don't want to follow that path. The sermons on how it is nothing but work, work, work reinforce how risky marriage is-if the other party isn't willing to work, work, work, you get the curse. So people become super-careful.

Now, people who spend enough time with those whose marriages are successful come to realize that it's not really a coin toss; marriage is a blessing when BOTH people are striving for the fruit of the Spirit in Galatians 5:22-23 (love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control). Those who have seen their parents drive each other away with harsh and unkind words recognize how their parents were doing the opposite.

Perhaps there should be a sermon series on what makes marriage a blessing.

[30. Trevor Dolby said the following at 6:06 PM on Nov 5:]

30

Courtney P (22): I think you've hit on one of the major reasons for the "dysfunctional mating structures" we see. Any time it is more acceptable to publicly desire academic credentials than it is to desire marriage, the impression of marriage as something to be delayed grows stronger.

This leads to a feedback loop, of course, in that guys see 22-year-olds preferring advanced degrees to marriage, and think "well, I guess I've got quite a few years to wait before the girls are interested in marriage"; the guys themselves then don't pursue marriage until much later, giving the impression to girls that guys don't care about marriage!

I don't see how to square this circle without fixing the initial problem, namely that marriage is seen as something be done “later”. There might be a few other things, though; possibly having younger girls state an interest in marriage, and accept approaches from slightly older guys (like recent college grads). At the very least, this would help the guys to pursue marriage at a younger age, and then provide a group of married couples as models for _not_ delaying marriage, but it would have to be managed quite carefully . . .

[None of this should be taken as a criticism by anyone – more like a criticism of the culture in which we live!]

[31. M.R. said the following at 7:07 PM on Nov 5:]

31

If I may share a personal anecdote that will shed light on the harms of making marriage an idol, and the real sin that comes out of that:

I am 27 and single. My sister is 30, and has been married to a wonderful man for 2 years, and has a sweet baby.

For many years, I have compared my life to my sister, partly because we took similar routes in our studies and love lives. So in my head I'd be thinking, well, I'm 26 now, this is about the time her now-husband started courting her, so that should be happening for me at the moment too. But, after taking similar paths for so many years, they have radically diverged - at 27, my sister was already engaged. I am quite single with absolutely no hopeful guy in sight.

For the past couple of years, I realized I'd let bitterness creep into my heart against her - I was resentful of God for not giving me a cookie-cutter story, and this sin invariably harmed one of my closest and most cherished relationships - my sister. It didn't help that around the time she got married, I went through a hellish break-up.

Just recently, by what I can only call a miracle, God changed my heart. I realized I was putting a burden on my sister, that complaining to her didn't help anything, only made her feel helpless and harried. The world, nor my sister, nor God, really don't owe me a living - don't owe me anything. And allowing myself to think they did, even just a bit, bore all the marks of the fruit of sin.

I realized that my sister doesn't not like me, or consider me a burden as a single - she likes me and wants to get back to being a sister with me - laughing and talking about fun stuff, stupid stuff, and yes, at the appropriate times, sharing my pains as well as the joys of my life. She has a pretty limited life now, spending all her days with a baby and her husband - and rather than being a friend to her when she needed one, I was focused on my own discontents and resentments as a single person.

THAT'S idolatry - its effects are pretty tangible. It hurts your relationships and has other negative fruits.

So if you're making marriage your idol, I think it should be pretty clear to you through these negative fruits.

[32. a said the following at 7:25 PM on Nov 5:]

32

Interesting. I've definitely run into a lot of people (my parents included) who make me feel that I am being idolatrous, not putting God first, not being content, etc, by desiring marriage. It's so nice to hear someone pointing out that God designed us to desire marriage. And, I don't know if this is always the case, but the same people who make me feel that desiring marriage is "idolatrous" also push so strongly for education and a career that it seems to me that any idolatry going on is actually them idolizing "success" and important careers.

[33. Sara said the following at 7:29 PM on Nov 5:]

33

My husband is a Catholic, and we were married in the Catholic church. One thing I do like about that denomination of Christianity is that they consider marriage a sacrament. It is very holy to them, and it is a way to serve God.

I think that the Protestant church views marriage the same way underneath it all, but I think they worry that with all the "singles" groups popping up everywhere, they need to keep peoples focus on God, rather than spouse-searching.

Maybe I was lucking, because I was not looking for a spouse when I found my husband, but I still think the best piece of advice is to STOP looking. Put your time and effort into using your talents for the glory of God... there is nothing more desirable than that. I don't mean stop desiring marriage if you want it, but I do think that constantly sizing up the men you meet as husband material or not is obvious and off-putting.

[34. Adam said the following at 7:48 PM on Nov 5:]

34

Mary J,

Adam (#17) I believe we *are* incomplete in our essence without marriage, and when we realise this, it opens us up to God in a profound way. Marriage is written into the very deepest part of our nature. The very desire for sexual union - the realisation that I am not enough by myself - is what points us to God!

Well, Mary, since I am a protestant, you are going to have to convince me from scripture alone. I believe that, when it comes to who I am, and who I will be as a person, the only thing I need is God. He, and he alone is molding me and making me into what he wants me to be. I would say that me not being enough in and of myself points me to God and God alone.

We need marriage *because* we need God. Adam needed Eve because God is not alone: God is a family. He is a loving communion of three Persons. As long as Adam was alone, man could not glorify God and love Him in the most perfect way possible - by imitating His own self-giving, total, fruitful Love.

But that is not what Genesis 2 says. Genesis 2 says that it was not good for Adam to be alone because he needed a "helper." In fact, there is also a grammatical reason to believe that what you have said is not the case. I can't go into all the details, but suffice it to say that, because of the construction of Genesis 2:18, the text is saying that it is Adam's being alone that is not good, and not Adam.

Again, if you are Catholic, we are going to have differences right off the bat, not only because I believe in sola scriptura, but also because I don't believe marriage is a sacrament.

God Bless,
Adam

[35. Kelly-1 said the following at 7:53 PM on Nov 5:]

35

Jeremiah (2) - "To me this feels like God’s wrath or punishment."

YES.

I know I'm not perfect and I know that I have sinned many times. But I've done everything "right" according to conventional wisdom to make me a good marriage candidate. I've got my life together, I go out, I meet people, my 'wish list' has next to nothing on it but "good Christian man that I can talk to"...and yet...nothing!

My entire home community seems to be happily married. My business associates are married.

I'm just very tired of the whole, "Give it to the Lord", "trust in the Lord" spiel. I've been waiting 15 years. If you told me that number at age 16, I would have flipped.

---

So. Because I'm tired of it, I generally don't think about it. I just get on with life. If I think about it, I get too upset. So by not thinking about it, does that put me into the "ambivalent" category of people who seem to be doing well enough as a single?

[36. Steph said the following at 8:19 PM on Nov 5:]

36

ANYTHING can become an idol.
For married people.
For singles.
Anything.

Let's not forget it. I think, Candice, it is helpful for you to remember that us who are single often long and ache and crave marriage, believing it is the "solution" to loneliness. It isn't. I do agree, though, that we must continue to uphold marriage as we do any good and beautiful gift! :)

[37. Melanie said the following at 9:11 PM on Nov 5:]

37

I have a christian female friend who idolized marriage so much she got married to a man who was willing to pay her so he could marry her in order to get his residency... she said it was God's will to marry him but everyone knew the man was only interested in that... and probably the sex part. We all know as soon as he gets his residency he will be out of the picture. She also had a wedding dress ready for years! it really seemed very creepy for me when she told me about it. Yes, a desire for marriage so strong can get out of hand.

[38. Adam said the following at 10:34 PM on Nov 5:]

38

"the guest pastor started talking about the dangers of good things becoming the ultimate things....

I suspect if I could talk to him and get some clarification, he'd say that what he meant was when we desire marriage in a non-biblical way, it can become an idol. And I'd agree with that."

I guess I'm curious what the other things were mentioned in the sermon. It seems like you could make the non-biblical way argument with just about anything.

[39. Texas Craig said the following at 11:16 PM on Nov 5:]

39

Sigh..... I am having deja vu all over again.... :-)

Adam: Great comments. I agree with you that we need to rely on scripture as our authority and I think it is quite a stretch for someone to say biblically that marriage is God's design for most people. At a minimum, scripture presents it as an open question.

On the one hand, you have the Genesis passage cited by Candice and the other verses that talk about the blessing of a wife. But, on the other hand, you have 1 Corinthians 7, which states "it is better for a man not to marry." Now, can that verse be taken out of context? Sure. But, if we are truly fair and objective, we should recognize that scripture does not clearly present the case that marriage is God's design for most people.

Marriage is a blessing; children are a blessing; a long life is a blessing; a good name is a blessing. But, an excessive desire for any of these things can be sin and idolatry, in my opinion. Just as Abraham was tested in his faith when called upon to be willing to sacrifice his son, so we shoudl always be willing to give up our desires as a demonstration of our love for God.

Candice, you made an interesting comment that I would challenge you on. Namely, you praise this pastor for his doctrine, his credentials, his happy marriage and family life, but then say you are disappointed because of his message. Perhaps you should be open to the possibility that, given what you said about your respect for him, that he might be right and God might be challenging you in your views. I am not saying you are wrong, but I think we in the body of Christ should be open to listening to the counsel of those we respect. So, if you respect this pastor in other regards, perhaps you should give credence to his message as possibly hitting a blind spot in your life. Just a thought, offered genuinely in charity.

Peace and grace!

[40. Chanhee said the following at 12:19 AM on Nov 6:]

40

I agree with Adam and SC. It almost sounds as if Candice is saying that in order to truly worship God, one must be married. This is not true. Paul said himself that marriage is not necessary, and if you can do without it, do without it! I think what people don't realize that its not only the marriage of two people that can possibly get in the way, but everything that come afterwards. When married you not only have to look after your spouse, but your offspring as well. People say that want to "serve" their spouse and children, but there is a difference between serving and being responsible for. Also Genesis' portrayal of marriage is before the Fall, we live in a post- Messiah world. Things means our priorities get shifted. For Adam and Eve it was to bear fruit and to rule over the world. As Christians, this purpose has changed! The more urgent and important thing is to love God and love others so that they may come to know Christ. NOT marriage. And I think that what the pastor was trying to get at in his sermon was that we must really question our hearts and intent for marriage. Not NOT to get married. I think what he was trying to get across is that we shouldn't jump to hastily to get married and that we should really count the cost.

[41. Susan said the following at 12:38 AM on Nov 6:]

41

Jeremiah,

"My second question, directed more to people on this board, is: Does anyone else feel like they are being denied God’s favor because of personal or generational sin? For example, I am 32 and have a deep desire for marriage. I have been ready for it for YEARS... house, job, finished with school, mature Christian, etc. etc. I no longer consider myself a youth. Yet I have never once had even the opportunity to “enjoy the wife of my youth.” My relationship history is limited."

At times I feel like it's almost some sort of trick. I desire marriage and I have for a long time. I am 24 so I have a lot of people telling me that I am young and I shouldn't worry about that now etc. For a while I heard "Wait until you're done with school. Then God will bring someone." Where is he then? What I can't grasp is why I desire marriage so much if it's not happening. A lot of times I do fear that it is because of my sins. But God has cleansed me of my sins and they are forgotten and I truly don't believe that He is like that. I also hold on to what I know about His character.

He is not cruel and he does not play "bait and switch" games with our hearts. I have been thinking a lot about this lately and as a sinner I don't think that the idea of desiring selfless marriage would even occur to me without His placing that desire on my heart. It's like my desire to read His word and spend time with Him in prayer. Those are not things that I would have been inclined to do if He had not placed those desires on my heart. I am sorry that I don't really have any answers. I just don't believe that He would place such a desire on someone's heart only to let them suffer and never have that desire fulfilled.

I can offer some encouragement that may help. My favorite verse that I have held on to is Hebrews 11:1 "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." I have faith that He will honor my desires. I understand your pain and frustration. Sometimes it can be so frustrating that it almost hurts physically, but God is faithful. I hope and pray each day that I will find a godly man and marry. Some days are harder than others, but I figure that each day is one day closer to meeting that man.

God Bless!

[42. Candice Watters said the following at 6:26 AM on Nov 6:]

42

Mary J, thank you for your thoughtful comments and introduction of Theology of the Body to this discussion. Very appropriate and helpful! Christopher West has done an excellent job making the Pope's insights accessible to the congregants in the pews! (we had him as a guest on the podcast a while back).

[43. Adam Sloope said the following at 7:52 AM on Nov 6:]

43

Kudos! I remember how guilty I felt for dating. I felt like it was a stupid waste of time. Now that I am in a serious relationship, on the verge of marriage, I see things differently though. When we started dating I felt guilty that I was wasting my time on something as trivial as dating when I could be out "soul saving"! I laugh at myself now. I often felt guilt for pouring myself into this relationship. I wasn't doing anything ungodly nor was I making an idol of it, I was simply putting more effort into the relationship than spending time alone at Starbucks meeting new people and reading and such. My brother told me something that truly changed my thinking on all this though. "Adam," he said, "I'm more proud of you for doing this (the relationship) than anything you've done, moving away for ministry and starting two churches, I'm proud of you because this isn't about you." He continued to tell me that preparing yourself for marriage is one of the most important m=things you can do because it will be your biggest ministry. he said that my marriage will be the biggest way I can show the world how Christ changes lives and relationships, it would be a reflection of His relationship with the church. I think if you are called to be single, which is a rare find, but if you are then dating around is not worth it, but if you are designed to be married then it is important to prepare yourself for the biggest ministry God will call you to. Rant over...Thanks.

[44. Maria said the following at 8:45 AM on Nov 6:]

44

I think you raise an excellent point in this article, Candice. I am in my upper 20's, in a way just entering the world of "singleness." I feel as if every time I express a desire to be married, I am quickly reminded that a husband will not fulfill all of my needs and desires. True. There is only One who can. I know that. But I still long for the companionship and closeness of marriage, but this response makes me feel as if my relationship with God must not be what it should be if I want it from a man. I think this response stems from what you're talking about: an unclear definition of Biblical Marriage.

[45. Kevin said the following at 8:47 AM on Nov 6:]

45

Courtney P (#22) said: I am 22 and I feel like it is ok for me to say I want to get my masters, but not ok for me to say I want to be married.
This is very interesting, and I'm sure many other 20-somethings would echo this sentiment. Courtney, why do you think this is? Is it parents? Peers? Pressure for career/finances?
In my opinion, there has been a shift in public perception of when it is "OK" to get married. It could be generational, but I'm not sure that that is all there is to it. For many of us, our parents and grandparents got married in their early to mid 20's, and yet the average marital age now is skyrocketing! I know in my own experience, I felt pressure from parents to not get married before I had my life together, and I struggled with this concept... sure, we need to be whole individuals and have something to contribute to a relationship in terms of spiritual maturity, financial stability, etc., but there were many times when I thought that Christian love was enough, that it would get us through no matter what worldly circumstances were in store. I was fortunate enough to meet my future spouse and develop a solid God-honoring relationship, courtship, etc. and get married young. Now I'm not saying that to discourage any singles on this board, as God has a different plan for each of us, but my point is that if the couple is spiritually mature, communicates together, and has a plan for life together, I don't see the problem with getting married at 20, 21, 22, etc. that many older adults (especially parents) seem to project onto their kids. Thoughts?

[46. Olivia said the following at 9:30 AM on Nov 6:]

46

Mary J, beautifully said!!!!! I agree whole heartedly with you and have discovered that emptiness/completion in my own life by crying out to God yet knowing that He is with me in the thick of my tears and frustrations. Before accepting Christ, I had no aspiration for marriage, but knowing God more intimately and how He expresses Himself as three-in-one, I know have the hope that my marriage will be a reflection of the intimacy of God.

Adam - in thinking over the Bible, I can see both the spiritual and natural results of marriage. Spiritually, I will refer to Mary J's post. Naturally, we would not be here today if it had not been for marriage and the fruitfullness that comes out of marriage. In our modern times, having children out of wedlock seems to be the norm but evident results show how disastrous it truly is. While children are a blessing from the Lord, absent fathers, overwhelmed single mothers, etc show the flaws of doing things outside of God's will.

Marriage is so evident in the Bible through the Old and New Testament. If marriage weren't so important to God, why would He have dedicated a whole book to love and marriage in The Song of Songs? Whether it is interpreted as Jesus and the Church or between a man and a woman, it is still about the spiritual and natural aspects of a union. Why would Jesus, himself make so many references to the bride and the groom as well as the wedding feast of the lamb in Revelation? Marriage is a part of God's heart because it binds us to Him as well as to our spouse.

I believe that every relationship that have on earth is a reflection of our relationship to God. Whether it be husband-wife, mother/father - children, friend-friend...all are mirrors to ourselves and our relationship to God.

[47. Elaine said the following at 9:33 AM on Nov 6:]

47

At times, I heard some single in church talking both male and female talking about marriage. Every conversation they have is about their desire to be married. Sometime in every discussion in the church programme (bible study class, young people meeting, prayer meeting) you talk to them they mentioned how they want to be marry. This might be the reason why some people might be that marriage is made into an idol. If the church member might assume if the single person is a virgin, the pressure might be greater from the members for the person to get marry. I don’t believe that is right, as if might lead the person to sin or made the person ignore other red flag and get marry for sex.

I was single until my early thirties and I never once complain to anyone about my desire to get marry. Although church members commented that I should hurry up and get marry. Some even said I won’t be able to have children. At the age of 35, I was surprised I got pregnant in four months. I want to get marry but then I realized that my life would be different. If the word is marriage is mentioned on the first date, it scared off men and also women. If a man invited me out and the first thing he mentioned was that I should marry him by month end. I would run far away from him. Dr. Dobson talked a lot about this in his articles. So in the mean time, I went to college twice, went to a lot of Christian retreats and on vacation and enjoy life. Anywhere I go, I never missed an opportunity to talk to Christian male. I realized that when I have a family I could not have the financial resources to do these things. Before marriage I serve on four committees in church. Now married with a child, I serve only on one that doesn’t meet regular.

If you over 30 is not married and do not give hope as it could have happen any day. I know a few persons who got marry in their thirties and most are still marry. It does not look good anytime you meet a single person at church, all she is saying, I want to be marry. Sometime, talk about the weather, sports news, cultural event and even politics. I don’t believe it is a rebuke, but it is boring to hear the same thing every time from the same person. In the meantime, does something with your life, get your high school diploma, a job, a college diploma, and learn a new hobby. I normally notice in church the persons who complain most are generally unemployed. A lot of persons meet their spouses in a hobby class, at school and on the job.

[48. Elaine said the following at 9:39 AM on Nov 6:]

48

Marriage changes things and influence the decisions and affect the time to do things. If a new job opportunity arise, it is easy to relocate when you are single. If promotion came a single will get it as they have the time to work the extra hours. You do laundry for one when, when marry you do laundy for your spouses and children and have to walk and pick up after them. Your spouses might be nice and kind on your date, turn mean and selfish after marriage. Probably that's why marry people are not encouraging single to be marry as they don't want them to become unhappy after they marry. They recognized they are successful and have the freedom to anytime and are afraid this might change.

[49. Candice Watters said the following at 10:04 AM on Nov 6:]

49

BDB, excellent points and a great suggestion for a sermon or even sermon series! Thanks for making them.

[50. Brittany said the following at 10:07 AM on Nov 6:]

50

Wow, I have been so encouraged by Boundless these last few years. I have grown exponentially in part due to the words that have been written here (I've even thought about applying to work at Boundless at some point). Thank you!

Now, this might seem strange to some of you but I REALLY want to get married. I want to cook for a man, have babies, do the whole "First day of..." thing...and I want to do it soon! If there is a Christian man around who demonstrates qualities of someone I would like to marry, I am friendly and I hope that he will take notice and ask me on a date. If he doesn't, I try my best to love him like a brother.

I am heavily involved in my *new* church and I serve in many ways. Practically all of my free time is spent in Church so that I may better server others and so I have a good possibility of marrying the type of man who would also serve there.

I make no apologies for desiring marriage. I can't wait for the day when I will unite with a man and create a family and serve God with that family!

I strongly encourage my 'sisters' in their pursuit of marriage as well. I know that every single one of them desires marriage and I would hate for someone to tell them to "stop or it won't happen". Phooey! I desire to serve God, therefor I put myself in a position to serve him. I want to have deep friendships and relationships with fellow believers so I put myself in those situations as well. To avoid putting myself in a place that will help me to marry well so that I can avoid idolatry is madness! Maybe had I been born before the sexual revolution, I wouldn't have to fight for the right to acknowledge that marriage is awesome and I want it too!!!

PS-If you are not someone who desires marriage, then Candice's words weren't written for you and that's cool! I think it's cool if a person desires to serve God as a single all the days of their life. There is however, a difference between desiring singleness in order to serve God and desiring singleness for other reasons (prolonging adolescence, afraid of divorce/failure, afraid of responsibility, playboy mentality, etc.). If you desire to have sex someday, then get married. You were made for it!

[51. Heather said the following at 10:26 AM on Nov 6:]

51

All of this seems like an excuse to continue whining & crying to me.

As Adam & others have stated several times, there is no Biblical proof that we are all supposed to be married. Is marriage a gift? Sure. Is it intended to be a wonderful thing? Of course. Does God use it over & over again to illustrate His relationship with the church? Yep. But that does not mean it was meant for us all and that we have an excuse to sit around wanting & waiting & wishing.

I'm sorry to those of you who seem so miserable in being single, but when you say, "I desire this so much - it must be from God", I would seriously check that. God doesn't give us overwhelming desires that He has no intention of fulfilling. That's silly & twisted & not the Father I know.

Our desire should be for Him and for Him alone. If you can't see how you can adequately serve Him & worship Him & glorify Him without being married, that is very sad. If you think it's not possible, you're discounting the lives of thousands of Christians - those who are widowed, those who are celibate, those who are not yet of marrying age. Does Grandma become no longer affective as a Christian when Grandpa dies?

And to those that say things like "all I want is a selfless marriage", "why would I even want that if I wasn't a Christian - it's like reading my Bible or praying". SERIOUSLY?! Are you really claiming that in marriage there is nothing fun & interesting for you that makes you desire it? It's all pure selflessness. You just want to give yourself to a man. It's not that you'd like someone to help you around the house, to carry the heavy boxes, to put his arms around you at night, to experience the wonder of sex with, to love you & adore you & tell you you're pretty. It couldn't be any of those things aiding in your deep unfulfilled desire, could it?

PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE question your motives here friends. This is such a dangerous line of thinking & has the potential to cause thousands of people to sit around sulking & wondering instead of making a difference in the kingdom. We live is a fallen world. Things are different than they once were - far different than Eden. We are here to be disciples of Christ and to further His kingdom. To love his people. Not to be comfortable & adored & fulfilled by someone of the opposite sex. The sooner you all realize that, the sooner you WILL find joy in living for Christ in whatever situation you find yourself in & with whatever gifts he has blessed you with. Most of you live in America. If you can't be happy with the good gifts you have been given you have some seriously distorted perspective.

Candice, PLEASE, as someone with a voice & power in having that voice, rethink what you're saying here. Nobody needs any more encouragement to be justifiably miserable. What we need is encouragement to suck it up & live for Christ!

[52. Jim H. said the following at 10:31 AM on Nov 6:]

52

Olivia #46,
I tend to agree with Adam's well-stated position and think of marriage more as a gift from God that many, if not most will enjoy, but not a necessity in case of every Christian. If the essence of being male was contigent on marriage as some of you are suggesting, then Jesus and Paul were incomplete people.

Paul makes it very clear in verses that have already been quoted that marriage is something to be treasured and that most will enjoy, but that the life of a single is also one of value to God.

This idea that all men and women are incomplete without marriage (and therefore abnormal) leads to pharisaical tendencies and the maltreatemnt of singles, especially older singles, in church. It is true that not all of them have the "gift" singleness, but things don't always work out as we would like and churches often add salt to already open wounds by treating older singles as the "hindquarters" part of the Body - something to be hidden an isolated from the rest of the Body. But this is just one particular case of the general tendency for people to value some gifts more than others. For for example, pastors and teachers are often elevated above people who have the gift of service who may please God by doing the best job they can cleaning the church toilets. I believe God measures people by their passion for utilizing their gift(s) to the best of their ability, great or small, so I believe the toilet cleaner with the gift of service who pours his soul into doing the best job he possibly can will be viewed more highly by God than the dispassionate pastor. ALL gifts are to be cherished and treasured by the Body of Christ.

[53. Adam said the following at 11:18 AM on Nov 6:]

53

I think I need to clear up some misrepresentations:

Brittany,

I know that every single one of them desires marriage and I would hate for someone to tell them to "stop or it won't happen". Phooey! I desire to serve God, therefor I put myself in a position to serve him. I want to have deep friendships and relationships with fellow believers so I put myself in those situations as well. To avoid putting myself in a place that will help me to marry well so that I can avoid idolatry is madness!

First of all, no one is telling them to stop desiring marriage. We are telling them to put that desire in its proper place, and to be ultimately satisfied in Christ, so that you will not create expectations in your spouse that they cannot fill, and only God himself can fill. We are going after ideas such as marriage is an individual "need," or that it is somehow a part of the way in which an individual is created. In my mind, these are displaying needs that only Christ himself can fill, namely, needs in relationship to who you are as a creation of God, and your need for your creator.

Also, no one is saying don't pursue marriage either. We are saying that you need to do it as someone who is seeking your ultimate satisfaction in God.

Olivia,

Marriage is so evident in the Bible through the Old and New Testament. If marriage weren't so important to God, why would He have dedicated a whole book to love and marriage in The Song of Songs? Whether it is interpreted as Jesus and the Church or between a man and a woman, it is still about the spiritual and natural aspects of a union. Why would Jesus, himself make so many references to the bride and the groom as well as the wedding feast of the lamb in Revelation? Marriage is a part of God's heart because it binds us to Him as well as to our spouse.

Of course, I never said that marriage was unimportant. I said that whether or not one gets married is unimportant in a Biblical sense. Now, it might be personally important to an individual, and I have no problems with someone pursuing marriage if they desire it, and even pursuing it with vigor, but there is not some Biblical importance put upon marriage that makes it a commandment that virtually every individual must get married, and it certainly has nothing to do with our essence.

Adam - in thinking over the Bible, I can see both the spiritual and natural results of marriage. Spiritually, I will refer to Mary J's post. Naturally, we would not be here today if it had not been for marriage and the fruitfullness that comes out of marriage.

Actually, I would say you wouldn't be where you are today without the cross of Christ. The reason why we are being sanctified, and the reason we will be in heaven someday is due to the work of Christ on the cross *alone." It has nothing to do with marriage, although God can use things that happen to you in marriage as a tool to do his work. However, the certainty that I will be in heaven some day with Christ comes from the fact that he shed his blood for me on the cross two thousand years ago, and it depends nothing upon whether or not I get married.

That ultimately leads me to what I think is the real issue here, and that is the reformation principle of Solus Christus, Christ alone. I can understand how what Candice is presenting would be attractive to Roman Catholics. In Roman Catholic theology, you not only need the merits of Christ for your right standing before God, but you also need your own merit, the merits of Mary and the saints, Purgatory, and yes, even the sacraments such as the sacrament of marriage. Given that view of grace, I can see how one would consider marriage a "need."

However, with the reformation principle of Solus Christus, all of these things changed. The only reason why anyone has a right standing before God, and, indeed, the only reason we are what we are today is because of the work of Christ on the Cross alone. In terms of who we are, and who we are going to be, all we need is Christ finished work on the cross of calvary that ransomed me from my own autonomy, and brought me into full relationship with him. Any additions to that, including marriage, are not Biblical.

God Bless,
Adam

[54. Jen said the following at 11:43 AM on Nov 6:]

54

To Susan, #41 -- you are wise beyond your years :) Thank you so much for your words. They really ministered to me today.

[55. JP said the following at 12:05 PM on Nov 6:]

55

I know that those who don't already agree with me will probably continue to do so, but here it goes.

Genesis 2:18
And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone, I will make him a help meet for him.

Ok I am not referring to the men here (since I am not one, I really can't relate)

Ladies in three words or less why were we created? To help men. Women were created by God to serve a man.

Not enough for you...Ok

Genesis 3:16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply they sorrow and thy conception, in sorrow, thou shalt bring forth children and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

Ok ladies, what is the second part of our curse, in three words or less? Serve our husbands.

So we were made to help man, and we were cursed to serve our husbands.

In some ways I feel that if someone says there is no where in scripture that says we were made for marriage they probably don't believe that God created man and woman in the first place.

Maybe that is too harsh, and I'm sorry to say it. But I am not going to backspace it since I've seen it too many times.

Men perhaps some of you don't have a strong desire for marriage, after all your curse was to tend the fields, but please remember that women were created to serve you, and to help you. What better way to do that but in marriage?

Gen 2:24
Therefore shall a man leave his father and mother and shall cleave unto his wife and they shall become one flesh.

Pastors need to talk about the good in marriage because it will continue to be a desire for most (if not all) women. If marriage is down played women will seek ungodly alternatives.

Desiring marriage is part of being a women, and it breaks my heart when men do not recognize this. Brothers who should be protecting me from sin, are making it very easy for me do the wrong thing.

God made me to worship him, but part of my programing is to worship him through marriage and that *is* in scripture.

Maybe this post is a bit harsh, but the Holy spirit can convict through God's words.

[56. Benjamin said the following at 12:10 PM on Nov 6:]

56

Benjamin, aside for the occasional psycho-stalker story in the news, what specifically, do you mean by "the desire for marriage can get out of hand?"

Well, an easy example might be the number of comments we have seen on this site from people who have gone without marriage for so long that they have begun considering or dating nonchristians. It is a clear example of valuing a good thing (marriage) over the far more important thing (commitment to God and the commands of His word), and I don't doubt that it is fostered at least some by the constant promotion of marriage and encouragement to focus on a desire for it.

Adam is exactly right, there is nothing wrong with the desire itself, but it needs to be put in proper subjection to more important issues in life. Sometimes, for some people, it is not, and warnings along those lines can be helpful.

[57. Julie (Ginger) said the following at 12:47 PM on Nov 6:]

57

Candice, I want to encourage you that I have been impacted in the ways you've been hoping as I read Boundless and have begun to desire marriage. Right now I'm living a life that is less settled than I would wish, and at 26 I've been ready to marry for a few years. A promising intentional relationship ended abruptly early this year, and with the help of your wisdom and that of other Boundless contributors, I have been able to confidently continue to tell my Heavenly Father and other people that I desire marriage, without feeling ashamed or desperate or bitter. Thank you for your work in my life!

[58. MNM said the following at 1:15 PM on Nov 6:]

58

To Adam (#17) and Heather (#51), THANK YOU! I could not believe some of what I was reading here. Seriously, where in the Bible does it say that the majority of people are called to be married? And how is it so unbelievable that someone might make an idol out of a desire for marriage, even a Godly, biblically-based one? Because we're humans, we can take even the most wonderful blessings from God and turn them into idols...we're just that dumb sometimes! :)

I understand that marriage is an absolutely wonderful and God-honoring thing. To me, my parents' marriage is one of the greatest examples of what it means to love like Christ loves. But so is the person who gives of himself on a daily basis to help those in need in his community. Or the single mom who sacrifices for her children. Or high school students who rally together to reach their friends for Christ. I know some might say, "Sure, all those things are great. But they don't compare to giving of yourself in marriage. No other act of love or submission or sacrifice or laying of one's life down comes as close to Christ's love as marriage." But the Jesus I read about in the Bible is not one who goes about comparing people...I do not believe he thinks to himself, "Dude, the single people are trying and that's great. But the married people understand so much better what it means to lay your life down and love like I love."

Additionally, there are so many amazing single people in the Bible...uh, think, Paul...even moreso, Jesus! If it's God's will for the majority of people to be married, wouldn't Jesus have emphasized that during His time on earth? Wouldn't Paul - instead of saying, hey fellas, if you can handle it, stay single like me! - have been encouraging people to get married en masse?

And Mary J (#27)...what? You believe you are incomplete and empty without a husband? I really don't understand where you're coming from. What Scriptural basis do you have for this?

I've been reading Boundless for about a year and have so often found the articles encouraging and thought-provoking. I understand that the current trends regarding marriage and families are often discouraging and that some delay marriage for the wrong reason. But every once in awhile, I find myself exasperated and wondering if I'm reading the same Bible as some Boundless writers and readers. However, I know I need to have a humble and teachable spirit...maybe I'm missing something in the Bible. But I just don't understand where someone finds basis for the belief that the majority of people are called to get married or that they're incomplete or empty without marriage...???

[59. Don Rubottom said the following at 1:33 PM on Nov 6:]

59

Actually, it IS a BIG part of our essence--if "in the image of God" includes "male and female"; Ish called her Isha because she came from Ish; in Hosea, God says that His bride will call him Ish. Covenant communion is imaged in marriage, our maleness and femaleness is "for this purpose". Seeing ourselves as individuals rather than covenant-making and -keeping persons, leaves us confused about our design. Seeing marriage as for us (individuals with apetites or desires), rather for God's self-imaging disclosure (as a covenant-keeping communion of three persons), leaves us confused about the reason to marry. Permanent singleness is for "only those to whom it has been given." By clear implication, all are designed for and called to marriage except the eunuchs identified by Jesus "to whom it has been given". And eunuchs are exceptional, NOT typical.

[60. Lynn said the following at 1:37 PM on Nov 6:]

60

A few things are evident here. People have varied experiences with respect to how/whether marriage is addressed in their churches. Some people have posted that their churches focus on the "hard work" and difficulties associated with marriage. However others (including yours truly) have been bombarded with sermons/teaching focusing on the benefits/blessings of marriage (which can wear on you when your desire for marriage is unmet). It seems that our perspectives on whether or not marriage can be an idol may be affected by which message we've heard the most.

Given my church experiences as well as my understanding of the Bible, I agree more with the ideas in posts #3, 14, 15, 17, 19, 28, 36. A biblical marriage is a good gift from God, and one that I think most people desire (especially people reading Boundless).

However since we are all still human, and we have all sinned (Romans 3:23), and even the best of us often struggle with sin (Romans 7:15-18). OF COURSE the good gift of marriage can become an idol. None of us, single or married, are perfect or completely pure -- and even our best motives can be tainted, or may simultaneously co-exist with impure motives.

I definitely want to be married, and there are many motivations for that desire, some biblical, and honestly, some not so biblical.

I hope (and pray) that I will one day use my marriage as a platform of ministry to singles. Getting married in today's society is just too difficult, and too few people have mentors or positive examples to turn to. Every day I feel an increasing desire to mentor singles as they navigate the path to marriage, and to equip them with the understanding necessary for having a good marriage. I believe that I will be in a better position to do so as a married woman.

Also, I think I am well positioned in my life to truly be a "helper suitable" for a Godly man. I look forward to one day drawing on all of my God-given strengths, abilities and experiences, to encourage and support a husband in his walk and purpose. I also desire children, and want to provide my parents with the gift of grandchildren. In general, I also simply desire the support and intimacy that are characteristic of a Godly marriage, and that are clearly mentioned in scripture.

However, if I'm honest, there are also some less honorable motivations lurking in my heart with respect to marriage. For instance, deep within me is the sinful desire to have my ex-boyfriend(who dumped me) eat his heart out seeing me happily married to someone else. I want vindication for all of the people who think they are being helpful when they give advice about why I'm "not married yet". I'm tired of feeling like the "odd man out" when I'm with a group of my friends who are mostly married - so part of me wants to be married so that I can join the club. Some days I just feel like I have a great body that's going to waste because I can't share it with a man under the right circumstances!

Now - maybe I'm the only person on earth who has ever struggled with mixed motives (ahem). Nonetheless, the point I'm trying to make is that, in a fallen world, even among devoted, Bible-believing Christians, our desire for God's good blessings can indeed become tainted. I believe that overall, my desire for marriage is good and I will continue to pray for it and seek it. However, I must also remain diligent in prayer and Bible study, remain honest with myself (and others for accountability)about the sin in my life, and work to take captive the sinful thoughts and motives that can taint my desire for something good and precious -- something that God in his grace and mercy may also desire for me. There is no reason to believe that marriage or any other blessing is exempt from potentially becoming an idol.

Finally, I just want to say that I am so often encouraged by the posts and comments I read on Boundless. This site definitely attracts a group of insightful deep-thinkers when it comes to spiritual matters! How do I find a church group where I can have these kinds of conversations on a regular basis? :)

[61. Heather said the following at 3:02 PM on Nov 6:]

61

Well, I have to wonder if this conversation is fruitful and if those of us who feel strongly will convince each other. But maybe I can at least convince some of those of you who are on the fence & so I will try.
PLEASE do not take seriously the ridiculousness of JP’s comment. I’m sorry JP, but it’s true – that’s what your comment is. Ridiculous. You are selling short yourself & all women by making the outlandish claims you are making.

First, please look up the original meaning of what has now been interpreted as “help meet”. To help you better understand it, look for other uses of it in the old testament. If what JP is saying is true, than not only were women made to serve men, but God was also made to serve men.

Hmm… really?

Adam was ALONE people. ALL ALONE. There was not one other creature of his same species on the planet. God decided that was not a good thing so he made another human being who could have fellowship with him, compliment him, and oh yes, she also had opposite “parts” so that they could make babies & continue making more people so that he would not be alone. So does that mean Eve was put here to serve him? Does it mean then that all the people that were created after them and because of this reproductive ability are here also to serve him? This logic would tell you that we’re all here to serve Adam – men & women alike. So that he doesn’t have to be lonely anymore. Except wait, he’s dead. So maybe we’re here for something else?
Let’s not take things out of scripture that are not said.
Also, JP, how do you not question yourself when you make a statement like, “So we were made to help man, and we were cursed to serve our husbands.” If we were MADE for it, how can it be a CURSE?!?!! Might it be rather that God said this foreseeing the way the world would become & how women typically would serve men, even though that’s actually NOT what they were made for? Then we could call it a curse. Something which you were created to be prior to sin, however, cannot be called a curse after.

Words can mean a hundred different things. Without context, without understanding of original language, without consideration of all the other words in the Bible that indicate something completely different, we end up making blanket statements that are simply untrue.
And I end up asking myself why. Why would someone try so hard to twist scripture into saying something like this? And the only answer I can come up with is because we seem to want an excuse to 1) either pout & cry & complain about what God has not given us or 2) justify a life in which we are committed solely to our spouse & children because we believe that to be our calling with little thought for the rest of the world around us. Placing this kind of emphasis on marriage – either for the married or the single – distracts us from the bigger picture. It feeds & fuels the idea of the white picket fence & 2.5 kids. And it takes our focus off of serving God & being his light to ALL people around us.

UGH. I’m frustrated.

[62. Adam said the following at 3:08 PM on Nov 6:]

62

Don,

Actually, it IS a BIG part of our essence--if "in the image of God" includes "male and female";

However, that is not talking about individuals having the image of God. In the context of Genesis 1:27, you have the Hebrew term 'adam being used with plural suffixes. Normally, as I have pointed out ad infinitum ad nauseum, when you have 'adam being referred to with the plural, it becomes collective in meaning, and means something like "mankind."

Hence, Genesis 1:26-27 is not showing that individuals are created in the image of God [Genesis 9:6 does that], but rather, how all of us together as the human race can be said to bear the image of God. Hence, the phrase "male and female he created them" would then refer to the fact that God created two kinds of people in the human race, males and females, and the human race can be divided into two subcategories of male and female.

Hebrew poetry does this a whole lot. You will have a broad category given, and then more specific categories are given to break down the more broad category.

This is also confirmed by the fact that we have found many text in the ancient near east which seem to connect the image of a diety with rulership. Are we really to believe that an individual couple rules over the zebras in Africa that they have never seen?

Ish called her Isha because she came from Ish;

But not because she is essential to the nature of 'ish.

in Hosea, God says that His bride will call him Ish.

Perfect example. God existed for all of eternity. Was there something deficient in his nature because we did not exist?

Covenant communion is imaged in marriage, our maleness and femaleness is "for this purpose".

Actually, the "for this purpose" comes an entire chapter later, in a different context, at the end of a narrative.

Permanent singleness is for "only those to whom it has been given." By clear implication, all are designed for and called to marriage except the eunuchs identified by Jesus "to whom it has been given". And eunuchs are exceptional, NOT typical.

Actually, I would say that what cannot be accepted is the teaching, not the celebacy. I would also point out that there is some kind of an act of man in that text, because it says that they have "made themselves eunichs."

God Bless,
Adam

[63. Micah said the following at 3:41 PM on Nov 6:]

63

Hey all,

Going back to the making an idol out of marriage thing. I really think that way too many ministers use this term. Back in OT times this was a very serious charge. People were killed for it. The children of Israel wiped out entire towns/civilizations for it. Now it seems that it is being thrown at us singles as frequently as bad jokes on Hee-Haw. I take issue with someone telling me I have an idol if they've known me for all of 3 minutes or don't even know me at all. Something like that should only be said in 1 on 1 counsel IMO, and only after much prayer. Yes, I beleive that anything, good or bad, can be make into an idol. Heck, using too much toilet paper can be made into an idol if you let it.

Now some have asked a legitimate question concerning scripture indicating that we were designed for marriage. Here's my answer. Based on my years of having a relationship with God and His word I am in total agreement with the concept that God designed most of us to be married and hard-wired us to desire it. Can I give any specific scriptures to support this? No, I cannot. Regardless, it is still my conviction.

[64. Cat said the following at 9:10 PM on Nov 6:]

64

There is only one problem I have with what you are saying Candice. And, in fact, it could be just a matter of definitions. I remember going on a date with a guy who expressed the sentiment to me of "I just won't be a complete person until I'm married!"

Wondering what he meant by that I asked him to expound.

"Well," he began, "I really struggle with lust and getting married will help that because then I'll have an outlet for my sexual desire."

I expressed that I felt that lust was problem that should be dealt with or being dealt with before marriage because even within marriage sometimes. for the benefit of a spouse we must practice self control. As we continued in conversation I found the underlying issue for him wasn't lust. It was personal fulfillment. He felt that a wife would give him the ego boost he needed. A wife would give him authority he felt he otherwise lacked. In the end a wife for this man would be no more then a person to use for his own selfish gain.

Now, I believe marriage is partially about personal fulfillment. But moreover it is an expression of God's love for us. A selfless relationship where each party looks out for the interests of the other more then their own.

I fear that placing too much of an emphasis on marriage makes it seem like we can't really live till we get married and once we get married, all problems cease to exist. But, that may be what you would define as a non-biblical desire for marriage. Just trying to explain my point of view and get some clarification from you.

[65. Amir Larijani said the following at 5:37 AM on Nov 7:]

65

We have the capacity to make anything into an idol. So yes, it is possible to turn marriage into an idol.

Having said that, I can also attest that this rationale is often used as a means to silence the single (man or woman) who expresses a desire to marry.

A minister who attempts such shutdown tactics, will get a proverbial fastball upside the head from yours truly...

[66. Jeremy said the following at 9:24 AM on Nov 7:]

66

Adam (#62):

Actually, I would say that what cannot be accepted is the teaching, not the celebacy.

This is a minor thing and doesn't really detract from your main point in your comment, but I don't think that is true. I had just recently been reading a number of commentaries on that passage for the previous discussion of remarriage, and several brought up that as a possible interpretation. The problem is that if Jesus was giving universal teaching, universal commands (as he certainly appears to have been), then following that up with "Well, not everyone can do this" really would raise rather serious issues about the universality or application of his teaching, and furthermore would not really fit the tone of the passage. I think it makes much more sense for him to have been referring to the disciple's preceding statement, essentially affirming that it is indeed better not to marry, but that not everyone can accept that fact (indicating that it is morally acceptable to marry).

One thing about that passage I find very interesting and completely under-emphasized is the concluding command, "He who is able to accept this, let him accept it." That almost (but not quite) amounts to a singleness mandate! When was the last time you heard a preacher talk about that sentence?

[67. Scott said the following at 10:57 AM on Nov 7:]

67

JP[55] wrote:

Men, perhaps some of you don't have a strong desire for marriage, after all your curse was to tend the fields...

No, God put Adam to the task of tending the garden of Eden in Gen 2:15, well before the Fall:

The LORD God took the man and put him in the Garden of Eden to work it and take care of it.

The curse lay in the frustration of Adam's purpose in tending the ground. Genesis 3:17b-19a:

"Cursed is the ground because of you; through painful toil you will eat of it all the days of your life. It will produce thorns and thistles for you, and you will eat the plants of the field. By the sweat of your brow you will eat your food until you return to the ground...

JP[55] wrote:

...but please remember that women were created to serve you, and to help you. What better way to do that but in marriage?

[...]

Desiring marriage is part of being a women, and it breaks my heart when men do not recognize this. Brothers who should be protecting me from sin, are making it very easy for me do the wrong thing.

Men can just turn this around. If your innate desire for marriage is grounds for demanding that men cater to that desire, what should we make of the lack of that same desire in [some] men? Cannot a lack of this desire be similarly used to justify their singleness and rebut your criticism? To paraphrase you,

Desiring marriage is not necessarily part of being a man, and it breaks my heart when women do not recognize this. Sisters who should be treating their brothers with respect and dignity often regard then with contempt and loathing for not pursuing marriage, making it very easy for bitterness annd strife to grow between themselves and their brothers.

[68. Scott said the following at 11:13 AM on Nov 7:]

68

JP[55] wrote:

Men, perhaps some of you don't have a strong desire for marriage, after all your curse was to tend the fields...

First, as I pointed out above, you have misidentified man's curse. But my question here is that by contrasting a woman's strong desire for marriage to man's curse, you seem to be suggesting that a woman's strong desire for marriage is a part of her curse? Is that so?

If so, then you have another problem as much of human activity is aimed - consciously or not - at ameliorating the effects of the curse (e.g. medical science, agricultural science; in fact, all of science in general).

Should we also be seeking to ameliorate a woman's desire for marriage? To ask the question is to answer it...

[69. Candice Watters said the following at 2:12 PM on Nov 7:]

69

Julie (Ginger) 57, you are very welcome. So glad you joined the conversation! :)

[70. BDB said the following at 3:43 PM on Nov 7:]

70

Candice (#49) - If a series was put together, I would suggest that it not focus simply on WHY marriage is a blessing, which may discourage some people, but also HOW TO make it a blessing. That would be particularly helpful for people who didn't grow up with it.

[71. Marie said the following at 6:40 PM on Nov 7:]

71

I have struggled with my own desire to marry because I have heard that "Jesus should be all I need." I do understand that finding a man to marry will not solve my problems, and it will inevitably bring about a new set of things to work though, different problems that may arise. But I just don't think that Jesus can truly be "enough" in the physical sense. I should look to God for my sense of self-worth, for my purpose, for my sense of completeness in that I am his child. But even if I do that, I will still be physically alone. Loving God and finding my worth in him doesn't mean it's not lonely coming home to an empty home night after night. I desire someone to be with at the end of the day, to talk about my day, someone to encourage and whom I can encourage. My primary love language is physical touch, and I believe that God created marriage as a way of showing us his love in the physical way. I don't know if we, as human, can be fully complete on earth, but I think that when we get married, we can experience another (very important) aspect of God's love for us.

[72. Noah said the following at 7:10 PM on Nov 8:]

72

So as not to beat a dead horse. Food, soccer, marriage, the approval of man...they all can become idols. Very clear. The desire to be married is not an idol, and the Scripture is clear that this can be a good desire, a necessary desire, and an un-necessary desire. Good...because "He who finds a wife finds a good thing and obtains favor from the Lord." Necessary...because "it is better to marry than to burn with passion." Un-necessary because..."one who is unmarried is concerned about the things of the Lord, how he may please the Lord." I'm 24. I'm very single and I want so badly to be married. Idol? Not necessarily. I need to be compassionate to those who have have lived twenty or more year than I and have not married....but my desire to marry is not an idol. But it can be. Being single can become an idol. The problem is not the the desire, but the strength and weakness of the desire. I struggle with the fact that I am single. At times I hate it! (idol) Other times I understand why it is that I am single. (not idol) The problem is in the strength or weakness of the desire. Can the desire to be married be an idol? Yes. Can the desire to be single be an idol? Yes. Thus, without beating a dead horse, to each his own. I am in pursuit of a wife (that almost sounds bad...almost) but I am more (I pray) in pursuit of God, thus my desire is not an idol.

[73. jayme said the following at 7:42 AM on Nov 10:]

73

Why can't marriage be an idol? Can't anything be something we worship, thus making it an idol?

God created us to work too - even before the Fall. Isn't it possible that someone would worship their work?

God created in us a desire for children. Isn't it possible that someone would worship their children and their role as mother or father?

God created in us a desire to be married. Isn't it possible that someone would worship that desire, that goal or that other person?

Those all seem like idolatry to me.

[74. Philip said the following at 8:33 AM on Nov 10:]

74

I wonder if an article by Tim Keller would be good on this, since his latest book Counterfeit Gods seems to cover the topic.

Anyway my simplistic response to the question at hand is that while it is possible to idolise marriage, the solution is not to desire marriage less, but to desire God more.

[75. a sassy sister said the following at 9:57 PM on Nov 10:]

75

Candice,

Isn't it possible that those who giving the response, "back off, I like being single," are the ones who are who simply reacting to constant pressure to be in a relationship? How would you honestly feel if your brothers and sisters in the faith were more concerned with why you weren't having more children than they were about your relationship with God(and believe me, such a concern is demonstrated in conversational focus...)

Again, no one here is saying that desiring marriage is bad....but I think the problem is that many in church either: a)don't want to be straight up with those who desire marriage but are acting so desperately in their behavior and attitudes towards all single Christians or b) complain about singleness among Christians but don't want to be involved in being part of the process to help encourage healthy relationships for singles(whether that may be for mentoring or dating introductions).

[76. katers said the following at 2:07 PM on Nov 13:]

76

I agree. My fiance and I were discussing this yesterday (okay, fighting about it over the phone from our separate dorm rooms with our concordances out and 1 Corinthians 7 up on Biblegateway) and he said that when Paul says that "since there is so much immorality, get married" or "if you cannot control yourself, get married" it means that sex is really the only reason Christians should get married (he said this in reaction to a chapel speaker who told us it was a bad reason...I can understand both perspectives)

I was upset at him because it seemed like an over-simplification and a concession instead of what it really is--the more difficult choice to obey rather than sin. I think Paul said that stuff because he wanted to tell them that, hey, now that you follow Christ, how about you don't use sex to hurt and alienate people anymore? How about you do with it what God wanted you to from the beginning, when he made you? Sex outside of marriage is false and separates two souls from truly knowing each other. If what I've learned about God's intention for it is true, he wants the exact opposite, which can be achieved by his grace in marriage, the true acceptance of another's real soul and real body.

[77. Ted Slater said the following at 2:32 PM on Nov 13:]

77

katers (#76) -- we've talked about that a few times. You may find the following very helpful as you continue your discussion with your fiance:

Marry For Sex

You Probably Don't Have "The Gift of Singleness"

[78. BDB said the following at 3:22 PM on Nov 13:]

78

Does anyone else find it cute that katers and her fiance argue using Biblical reference tools? Awwww...

DEFINITELY better than arguing about something Oprah said!

[79. JP said the following at 9:58 AM on Nov 14:]

79

Scott (67 & 68)

I don't think you understood my post fully because you seemed to miss my point. This is my fault since I must not have been very clear.

Perhaps I can redeem myself,

The first thing I stated was I'm not referring to men, I am not a man I cannot comment.

I was not speaking about marriage, but rather why there is can be a godly desire for marriage, and why women seem to have this desire stronger than men. I'm not saying men do or do not have this desire. But rather desire marriage is part of our nature.

Woman were created to be a "help meet" for man. Can anyone deny that? Even without adding the curse, why was woman created? It's there in one verse. I probably shouldn't have added anything about man's curse, because clearly I was too heated when I wrote my post to begin with and I didn't research the topic enough.

On the other hand, you did not mention anything against woman being created for man. Which was my main point, so as far as I see it, you probably can't disagree with that (especially since that is the Word of God). If you are created for something your desire will be strong for it. The desire for marriage was God given, and when you recognize that godly desire it is not an idol. It is when the world interferes and your desire change to ungodliness that it can become a problem. Many brilliant post above have given perfect examples of this. Mine was not one.

And please understand, I know some men do not want to get married, and women should not pressure these men, that would be sinful. I am not asking Christian men to "cater to my desires." Yet, your "paraphrase" is not completely off, and I can agree with most of it. However my original comment still stands.

I was referring to Christian men who date for sex, fun, and companionship with no intention to marry. I was not referring to those who claim celibacy to serve God. Men who date for recreation are causing many women to sin, and they are breaking our hearts, and there is no denying that. I was merely suggesting that Christian men must realize women are more apt to want marriage, and they should not date unless they are considering marriage as well. They are giving too many of us false hopes, which can lead us to desire something God has not given us, which may be defined as idol worship.

Once again I should not have include anything about man's purpose or "curse" since I am not a man. Scott you did bring up great biblical points in your argument.

But your last comment: "Should we (I assume you mean men) also be seeking to ameliorate a woman's desire for marriage?"

Yes, Christians should be helping women seek a Godly desire for marriage. This includes marriage mentors, single men, single women, and celibate men and women. Churches must help improve her godly desire if she is to keep from sinning. Are we going to create man chasing, marriage idol worshipers? No that's not biblical.

Can we to help shape God fearing women who will submit and respect Godly men, and desire to help them and raise children? That's the goal. Churches that teach marriage in a godly way will help prevent idol worship, and help shape a woman's present innate desire for marriage for service to God.

[80. katers said the following at 7:16 PM on Nov 15:]

80

lol...thanks Ted and BDB. : ) You've got to use whatever tools you've got, and we happen to be Bible college dorks, so we're just picking up what's on the shelf. : )

[81. Scott said the following at 4:28 AM on Nov 16:]

81

JP[79]:

I was referring to Christian men who date for sex, fun, and companionship with no intention to marry.

On this point I absloutely agree with you; this is unacceptable behavior.

[1. RLynn said the following at 11:24 AM on Nov 5:]

1

I agree, Candace, too many of us who are single (and especially those of us who are older singles (40+) have been shamed by other believers into thinking that wanting to get married (at "your age?") is a bad thing--so we don't talk about it. We've spent decades in churches that are happy to have us volunteer and do a lot of the duties, but completetly ignore that a lot of these people would love to get married! We get a lot of "just be content", which is true, but at the same time, it denies and belittles deep desires. This is especially difficult if you're in a church like mine where there's an announcement of a new baby every week and programmings is heavily weighted to families with children.

[2. Jeremiah said the following at 11:51 AM on Nov 5:]

2

Genesis 2:18: “Then the LORD God said, ‘It is not good for the man to be alone; I will make him a helper suitable for him.’”

Proverbs 5:18: “May your fountain be blessed, and may you rejoice in the wife of your youth.”

Proverbs 18:22: “He who finds a wife finds what is good and receives favor from the LORD.”

Proverbs 19:14: “House and wealth are an inheritance from fathers, But a prudent wife is from the LORD.”

My question for this pastor would be: are there any other instances in scripture where something that is clearly described as a gift from the Lord is twisted into idolatry? I have a hard time understanding this sermon example. I can certainly picture dangerous and destructive relationships (especially non-Christian) where the husband, wife, or BF/GF becomes an idol. However, I have a real hard time understanding how the desire for biblical God-honoring marriage can ever be idolatry... I thought that good gifts were good gifts. Period.

My second question, directed more to people on this board, is: Does anyone else feel like they are being denied God’s favor because of personal or generational sin? For example, I am 32 and have a deep desire for marriage. I have been ready for it for YEARS... house, job, finished with school, mature Christian, etc. etc. I no longer consider myself a youth. Yet I have never once had even the opportunity to “enjoy the wife of my youth.” My relationship history is limited.

To me this feels like God’s wrath or punishment. Are we like the generation of Israelites that were cursed to wander in the desert; or like the later generation that was exiled? What have we done so wrong that God has left so many fervent prayers unanswered?

I am SO tired of battling this and all the loneliness, distraction, false starts, temptation for substitutes, etc. that the quest has entailed. I’m exhausted. Even reading Boundless this week is tiring. And there are people on here in their 40's that haven't yet been married? That's too late. How can God let his people suffer for so long?

[3. DannieA said the following at 11:55 AM on Nov 5:]

3

no offense Candice, but i think the preacher was spot on...

Please give us singles some credit for having an above average IQ and knowing that this statement does NOT mean shying away from being marriage minded but keeping a balance between a selfless Godly marriage and a selfish marriage.

people that shy away from marriage will look at any excuse to not be married or to continue living in a way that is most productive to THEM...

my 2cents :)

[4. BAC said the following at 12:01 PM on Nov 5:]

4

Candice,

I agree. I think that the fear of making an idol out of marriage has become one of the reasons why seeking marriage intentionally is not taught in church anymore. It is as if, as young adults, we are merely left to our own devices, expected to simply stumble into marriage at one point or another. This is precisely what many of us do and why some of us end up married (if at all) much later in life than we would have 50 years ago.

I know that in the churches I have attended, it was standard to not really talk about marriage until people were actually married. There was no preparation for unmarried persons that went beyond 'wait' and 'don't have sex while you are waiting.' Neither of these directions were given with any instruction or mention of intentionality. You just sat there and hoped a spouse would fall (almost literally) out of the sky. Many of my peers had NO clue what marriage really entailed until they married. The pressure has gotten to some of them (at times with catastrophic results) as they go from being told to, essentially give marriage VERY little thought, to actually attempting a successful marriage.

[5. Lynn said the following at 12:01 PM on Nov 5:]

5

Hmm... Is there a difference between wanting marriage in a "non-biblical way" and wanting marriage "too much"?

Is it possible for someone to simultaneously have a biblical view of marriage, and yet place too much emphasis in their lives on finding/pursuing a mate (such that everything else suffers for the sake of getting married)?

[6. Scott said the following at 12:16 PM on Nov 5:]

6

We shame singles by making them think it is a sin and idolatrous to desire marriage: "You should be happy in God alone!" But God designed most of us to marry. Acknowledging this desire isn't arrogant rebellion; it's humble surrender to his creative design.

It’s a pity that so many see shaming singles for their singleness as the solution to this problem. Often, those who like to beat the marriage drum are the mirror-image of the above; they ‘shame singles by making them think it is a sin and idolatrous to not desire marriage’. Insisting on marriage for those who don’t particularly desire it is arrogant.

He doesn't deny that earthly pleasures, marriage among them, "can blind us from God and steal our hearts away from him, and that good things can become bad things," but he does remind us that it's not inevitable.

The same is true of singleness. Listening to many on the marriage mandate-ish side of the fence, you could easily get the impression that, absent a unique super-charged ministry ala the apostle Paul, singleness necessarily becomes a bad thing.

Debbie Maken & Al Mohler are perfect examples.

[7. RLynn said the following at 12:22 PM on Nov 5:]

7

In reference to #2 "...there are people on her in their 40's that haven't been married? That's too late."

Maybe...maybe not. I'm not unrealistic, but rather hopeful--I still hear of women (and the occasional man) who is married for the first time in their 40's (and 50's)!

[8. Olivia said the following at 12:34 PM on Nov 5:]

8

Jeremiah, I hear your hurt and disappointment regarding this area in your life. My own "love life" feels very much like the wilderness, however as bad as it may look God is still able. Just like when the Israelites were walking in the wilderness those 40 years, God never left them or forsaked them. He provided manna from heaven, quail for their meat and their shoes never wasted.

There are times when I get mad at God and cry myself to sleep at night, but I can't allow myself to stay in that place or else bitterness will take root. I believe we are allowed to be mad at God and question Him, however, we need to know who we speak to. He is God of the universe, maker of the heavens and the earth. Just like you may be feeling like your love life is in the wilderness, God is able to provide you a wife.

God is the giver of all gifts and a wife for you, or a husband for me, would be a gift. But my love for God should not be contingent on what He gives to me but who He is. He should always remain our eternal hope. No matter what happens or what the enemy says, our hope should always rest in God alone. When we hope, we are able to cling to what our eyes can not see in the natural. I don't know if I will get married or not, but I will hope.

I'm sure you will get plenty of advice from this site on where to turn to meet nice women, but don't lose hope in God. He has never lost hope for you and your salvation.

[9. JP said the following at 12:35 PM on Nov 5:]

9

"when we desire marriage in a non-biblical way, it can become an idol"

Thank you for that. I have tried to explain to my female friends it's ok to want to be married, but the idol thing keeps coming up, especially from the married women I know!

Why do I want to get married
1. To serve God
2. To give God the glory in the triumphs and sufferings of marriage
3. To remain pure for one man and submit to him for the rest of my life
4. To raise God fearing children
5. To support my husband spiritually so he can serve God better
6. To resist temptations to sin

Do those reasons make me an idolatress? Let's see I'm putting God first, and I am worshiping only Him, and I'm desiring something he gave me...So I'm going to go with no.

Thanks for the post. Very affirming.

[10. Julie said the following at 12:44 PM on Nov 5:]

10

I know Debbie Maken has written about how we face one of the most dysfunctional mating structures in history, and yet rather than recognizing it, people talk about it as God's will. My guess is that people like this pastor and others don't really know what to say to singles (they should read Boundless!), so they say things that aren't helpful and are in fact, counterproductive.

Also, as a generation, the ones before us didn't have nearly as many people marrying late or staying single. So there's an empathy gap there, and perhaps a confusion about why there are so many singles.

[11. Ruth said the following at 12:56 PM on Nov 5:]

11

Thank you for addressing this Candace and really thinking critically about what biblical marriage really is. I have observed that so often many Christians including myself use our emotions to gage when and where the pursuit of biblical marriage is acceptable. Of course their are boundaries and guidelines within the realm of marriage...this is no doubt a given. But what I am getting at here is this : Who is setting those guidelines? Is it the church, one's interpretation of the Bible, feelings? God is the author and finisher of our faith and He is the author and finisher of marriage. As He has guided His children through out the centuries He will continue to do so...even in marriage.

[12. AshleyE said the following at 1:00 PM on Nov 5:]

12

Thank you for writing this, Candice!
I totally agree with your post. Why is it that so many singles feel like their overwhelming desire for a healthy, godly, Christian marriage is a taboo subject when around other singles and especially married people? So many singles smile and say, "I'm so content in the Lord right now I don't feel any need for marriage." I believe when singles say that they are either not in a position to be married (for financial, educational, etc. reasons), truly do have the gift of singleness, or are not in step with God's design and purpose for His children in marriage.

But I really don't think it's about contentment vs. discontentment. It's about learning how to daily lay down your desires for the hope deferred (the hope for marriage) in an effort to be a holy and pleasing sacrifice unto the Lord. My discontent in being single is what propels me forward. The deep desire to be the best wife and mother possible, to run a home that is hospitable and comfortable, to raise God-fearing children is what encourages me to stay the course, to seek God daily, and to take purposeful steps in cultivating wifely and motherly skills.

[13. Last One Home said the following at 1:04 PM on Nov 5:]

13

People automatically assume that if you REALLY want to be married, you must be having motive problems.

I've experienced this with multiple older women in the church, and with comments made by well meaning people on Boundless. Idolatry IS a serious issue; marriage won't make you less selfish or depressed or whatever-- it won't automatically make you feel beautiful or loved. BUT God does mean for marriage to help with some problems, and to give blessings. So let that stand on its own as truth!

I don't "just want marriage" as the institution itself-- I'm not hankering after a shiny diamond status symbol on my finger that says "someone wants me".

But I do have a specific man whom I have deep affection for, and I would like to commit to his life and be able to show my affection and admiration in marriage-only ways... so do I want marriage??

YES, AND AWFULLY BADLY!

And I would like for women to quit judging other women's motives. I think married women are all so worried that we single girls have these "heads in the clouds" dreams of perpetually romantic, totally fulfilling marriages that they have to bring us down a notch.

[14. Jess said the following at 1:09 PM on Nov 5:]

14

I wasn't at the sermon, but let's be biblical: anything can become an idol. And in many a single’s life, in my life, at various times I put pursuit of marriage above my pursuit of God. In my heart, I have not believed that God doesn’t bring good gifts to me because I have not yet married. God gave his one and only Son that I might believe and have faith that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and have eternal life in Him. In that context, I can understand the pastor’s point.
Now, as someone who is older and waiting on the Lord to become a wife, I know that my life is given to me everyday to bring glory to God and find my treasure in Him. This includes the conviction that God made me and knows me. He is not unfamiliar with my desires; He has been sweet to me. I have been convicted to be unabashed in asking the Lord to bring me to my husband. This includes asking others who are close to me for connections with other young men. This also means that I have surprised people when asked “So, are you married,” my immediate response is “Not yet, but I would like to be.” I’m past caring about being shamed into silence- I know that I am praying in God’s will. God is using my singleness to be about God’s business-His glory, my sanctification. And I pray that in God’s time, He will use marriage to do that in my and my future husbands’ lives.
And to Jeremiah- keep praying. Our God is faithful, even unto death.

[15. Heather said the following at 1:34 PM on Nov 5:]

15

I just don't get this way of thinking.

Seriously. Were we put here for marriage? Are we all MEANT to be married? If so, fine. Then we should seek it, desire it, strive for it, want it. IF that is our purpose. If that is our goal & purpose.

But if our goal & purpose is to glorify God & reflect His image in all that we do - in everything - every situation we find ourselves in, how is it not unhealthy & yes, even idolotrous, to desire marriage too much? What if marriage is not in the plans for you? Should one really spend their whole life wanting something & seeking something that may very well not be in the plans for them and is certainly not the reason they were put here on this earth?

Of coures you can want marriage too much. If you want it so much it's all you think about, it's all you're seeking, it's somehow tied in to what you think you were put here to be and do, then yes - that is TOO much.

Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, and mind. Love your neighbor as yourself. Why do either of those things require marriage?

And the "twin epidemics of divorce and marital delay"?!?! Are you serious?! One is a sin. The other may very well be God's intention for many people & possibly our culture in general right now. What a completely offensive statement.

[16. Benjamin said the following at 1:37 PM on Nov 5:]

16

"no offense Candice, but i think the preacher was spot on...

Please give us singles some credit for having an above average IQ..."

Exactly*. Food and drink are good things, yet Scripture speaks several times to the dangers of the desire for them getting out of hand. We don't need to constantly reassure people that food and drink are in fact good, because they know that.

The desire for marriage can also get out of hand. There is no reason to cringe at that or try to soften the statement, especially if the pastor acknowledged upfront that marriage is itself a good thing.

* Well, I don't think one can fairly say that singles as a whole have an above-average IQ, but let's say average.

[17. Adam said the following at 1:57 PM on Nov 5:]

17

Candice,

Why? Because not all marriages are alike. And some are less idol-prone than others. But that rarely, if ever, gets said.

The problem is that, whether or not marriage becomes an idol has nothing to do with the marrriage itself, but, rather, has to do with the heart.

The reason it's impossible to make a marriage as God designed it an idol is that such a marriage places God at the center of the relationship.

However, again, the question remains as to whether God must therefore grant marriage. I again come back to a question I have asked over and over again. Can God say "no" to a person's request for a spouse? If God can say "no" to a person's request for a spouse, and even after God has said "no," [at least for this season of your life anyway] you say that you have some entitlement to it, then, yes, you are making marriage an idol. You are making marriage an idol because you desire to serve God in a way he has not called you to serve him.

Finally, this idea that "God designed most of us to marry" needs to be challenged. There is no Biblical evidence for this. We are not incomplete in our essence without marriage. This is what I believe is the heart of the idolatry of this line of thinking. We are not entitled to marriage just because we want it. If you view marriage is something you need to complete you, then you will always say that, when it comes to who you are as a person, you are not enough, even with Christ Jesus as your Lord.

Now, again, with regards to Genesis 2:18, I would like to challange people who throw that passage out there to examine it in its context. The man's inherent nature is *not* what is being addressed in this context. Even worse, the woman fails miserably as a helper for the man and solution to the "not good" in chapter 3, and is told that she will continue to try to dominate him in 3:16.

My question for this pastor would be: are there any other instances in scripture where something that is clearly described as a gift from the Lord is twisted into idolatry?

The answer is "absolutely." In fact, the crops are considered to be a blessing of God for our food, and yet, the Israelites over and over again went to these pagan fertility gods and goddesses because the crops of the pagans were succeeding, and their crops were not. Here, something good such as crops became such an idol that it even lead to other idolatries.

Another example would be the serpent of Numbers 21:5-9. This serpent was made to heal the Israelites from the biting of the firey serpents that had come upon them because they spoke against God. Obviously, this was for their good. However, in 2 Kings 18 we find Hezekiah had to tear it down because until his day, the people were burning incense to it [2 Kings 18:4]! Also, reading the story of the Israelites in the wilderness, it was amazing how, whenever God would remove blessings from them, they would start complaining. The Bible very strongly supports the idea that, yes, even blessings of God can become an idol. In fact, I would argue that God, throughout the scriptures, takes away his gifts to us in order to show us our idolatry more clearly.

I would also point out that the passages that Jeremiah sights in the book of Proverbs have parallels to the notion of pursuing wisdom. The book of Proverbs says that we are to pursue wisdom above all. Hence, I would argue that what this means is that, in order to truly understand marriage, we must first be married to lady wisdom. We must seek her like gold and silver. Only when we find our fulfillment in God and his wisdom will we ever be able to love our spouses in the way that we should. That is why I fear that this idea that we "need" marriage will cause us to try to make our spouse something for which they were not designed, and ultimately, end up destroying the relationship.

The reason why I believe that his warning of marriage becoming an idol in the pursuit of marriage will never go away is simply because our hearts are idol factories, and we can take even the good gifts of God and pervert them into idols. I think that most people will always recognize that, when you start saying that you are created for marriage, or you need marriage like you need food, you are, indeed, making marriage an idol. I think that is the first thing that hits people whenever they hear statements like this. Hence, until those ideas are taken away, yes, people will always view this position as idolatrous.

God Bless,
Adam

[18. Candice Watters said the following at 2:32 PM on Nov 5:]

18

Benjamin, aside for the occasional psycho-stalker story in the news, what specifically, do you mean by "the desire for marriage can get out of hand?"

Remember here, folks, that Adam had perfect relationship with God--he literally walked with Him in the garden. Yet God said, "it's not good for man to be alone."

God made Eve. Marriage was His idea. And yes, to those of you who've raised this point: it is His will for most of us.

Only recently, culturally, have we seen in the church the rise of marriage as an optional lifestyle equal to intentional singleness apart from a call to celibate service.

I'm not trying to condemn those of you who've commented who are single beyond your expectations and desire. To you I say keep hoping and praying. God is faithful. But to those who've said in effect, "back off, I like my single life," I'm just suggesting that doesn't seem to find a place in Scripture. We have a responsibility and a calling to marriage and family making. And when singles are denied that because of circumstance, it's tragic, not praiseworthy.

[19. Jo said the following at 2:53 PM on Nov 5:]

19

Yeah, I agree with others who've said that marriage absolutely can become an idol. And it's probably a heck of a lot more likely when you're not in one. 'Grass is greener' mentality is pervasive and it's never a good thing. It's good and right to desire marriage, but it's not good and right to focus all our energy on it, to dwell on it day and night and to put all our efforts into obtaining it at the expense of all else.

I had a very interesting and enlightening (and saddening) experience a couple of years ago at a work outing where two male colleagues were discussing their lives. Both were mid-thirties, one had been married for about 10 years and the other was single. Both were bemoaning their state. Both were lamenting their lack of what the other had. Both (in that moment at least) were dissatisfied.

Both had also been drinking, which probably didn't help.

Anyway, this is the problem I see, our tendency to look at what other people have and think that if only we had that all our lives would be complete. We might not articulate that thought, but it's there all the time and rather than indulge it we need to root it out and remind ourselves that what we have and who we are is good enough for God to work with. YES we should ask Him for good gifts. But if any of those gifts becomes more important to us than the giver, we're in trouble.

[20. DannieA said the following at 3:09 PM on Nov 5:]

20

Benjamin #16

Touche....ok, but I think for the most part the singles that come here have average if not above avg. skills...just by reading the posts.

[21. Frustrated said the following at 3:23 PM on Nov 5:]

21

I hear Jeremiah's pain, and I echo it many times. Candice said this: Remember here, folks, that Adam had perfect relationship with God--he literally walked with Him in the garden. Yet God said, "it's not good for man to be alone."

So why are we still alone? I've been a Christian for 16 years and I struggle with this! Is God a cruel God? Why *does* he let us suffer for so long, with potentially no end in sight?

[22. Courtney P. said the following at 3:24 PM on Nov 5:]

22

Great post. I am 22 and I feel like it is ok for me to say I want to get my masters, but not ok for me to say I want to be married. I am just know coming to a place to were i can embark on a relationship what up with that lol:)

[23. em said the following at 3:34 PM on Nov 5:]

23

really good post - speakers / leaders / clergy are looked to for counsel in very sensitive areas. It makes sense to qualify more, generalize less. Sure, the desire for marriage can be a consuming idol but that doesn't mean that if you desire marriage strongly that it is an idol.

[24. Erica said the following at 3:37 PM on Nov 5:]

24

In reference to #2 and #7. Yes, it’s a long wait. I personally know two women one 45 and one 42 who have gotten married for the first time this year. As their friend I’ve watched the Lord bring them each wonderful, sane, God loving men. I’ve had the privilege of witnessing their lives over many years as they waited and have watched them take the courageous journey of keeping their hearts tender and alive to both God and their unmet desire. And that is the real challenge for anyone who waits for anything. Of course their lives have special significance to me as I am 32 and also am waiting.

To address #2 The more I lean into God's heart in this journey the less inclined I am to believe that God is holding out something good as a punishment. I, of course, don’t know what his purposes are. I’ve had my share of painful distraction in my journey, many day’s, night’s of crying out to God, begging for relief.
Things really did shift for me though when I started to believe more that God was right inside it with me that even though he didn’t rush in to fill the space he knew about it intimately. These day’s I experience more and more His showing up in my most pain filled, empty moments.
In my walk, I trust simply that he will correct me if I need to be, because I ask and because he knows my deepest heart is for His kingdom. In fact, he knew that long before I did. This journey has also been a process of him showing me that my deepest heart really is for Him. I’m so grateful to know that.
Could I have learned this inside a marriage? Maybe.
I do understand the pain in your questions. I totally understand those moments when the pain seems much clearer and louder than the voice of a loving God.

[25. Adam said the following at 4:05 PM on Nov 5:]

25

Candice,

Remember here, folks, that Adam had perfect relationship with God--he literally walked with Him in the garden. Yet God said, "it's not good for man to be alone."

And yet, Candice, where does the text ever say that this is a part of the way he was created? The text mentions nothing here about his essence. The context is that of a "helper." Not only that, but as I said in my last post, the woman fails in this role in chapter 3, and, as a consequence to her sin, she will fail at this repeatedly [Genesis 3:16].

The point is that ultimately it must be God who fulfills this role because women will always fail at this simply because they are sinners. That is why I say that there seems to be an expectation that is being developed here that cannot ultimately be fulfilled except by God himself [Psalm 46:1].

God made Eve. Marriage was His idea. And yes, to those of you who've raised this point: it is His will for most of us.

Candice, can you make an argument for the idea that "it is his will for most of us?"

Only recently, culturally, have we seen in the church the rise of marriage as an optional lifestyle equal to intentional singleness apart from a call to celibate service...

But to those who've said in effect, "back off, I like my single life," I'm just suggesting that doesn't seem to find a place in Scripture. We have a responsibility and a calling to marriage and family making. And when singles are denied that because of circumstance, it's tragic, not praiseworthy.

Again, Candice, I am concerned that these things just simply are not scriptural. I really don't care about the way things always were. I think even those cultures had their sins. We need to allow scripture to speak for itself, and that is why, again, I would simply ask for proof for this assertion, since it is my contention that, when we do let scripture speak for itself, it tells a different story. While it is true that all singles need to be serving God in the way that they live [is that what you mean by celebate service??????], there is no place in scripture anywhere that says that almost all individuals have a call to marriage and familymaking.

God Bless,
Adam

[26. SC said the following at 4:19 PM on Nov 5:]

26

If idolatry is attempting to use something other than God to provide the security only He can provide then a desire for a (biblical?) marriage can be just that.

I think much of the confusion here arises from what exactly is meant by a 'biblical' marriage. If by biblical marriage is meant one man with one woman (ideally both Christians) in a lifelong covenant, with the intention of being fruitful and multiplying, etc., then it seems a desire for (biblical) marriage to give the peace, assurance, security, belonging, etc that only God can provide, I think you'd have to concede that biblical marriage can become an idol.

In a concrete sense, "this desire for marriage can get out of hand" through despair that one's life is somehow less for not having a spouse, or thinking that one will be delivered from struggles (most notably, lust) if they are married. Though marriage undoubtedly provides a legitimate outlet for sexual desire, companionship, etc., relying on and trusting in marriage, not Jesus is idolatry.

If, however, what is meant by biblical marriage is an expression of Christian worship of, and subservience to God then it seems this is only one section (albeit an important one) of the Christian's worship and devotion to God.

That being the case, it would be absurd to suggest that the worship of God could become an impediment to worshipping God, so the speaker in question almost certainly had the first definition in mind.

Hopefully this hasn't come off too cold or unloving; I'm in essay mode.

[27. Mary J said the following at 4:29 PM on Nov 5:]

27

Candice, thank you so much for writing this!!! You are absolutely spot on.

Adam (#17) I believe we *are* incomplete in our essence without marriage, and when we realise this, it opens us up to God in a profound way. Marriage is written into the very deepest part of our nature. The very desire for sexual union - the realisation that I am not enough by myself - is what points us to God!

We need marriage *because* we need God. Adam needed Eve because God is not alone: God is a family. He is a loving communion of three Persons. As long as Adam was alone, man could not glorify God and love Him in the most perfect way possible - by imitating His own self-giving, total, fruitful Love.

Ever since discovering the Theology of the Body, it blows my mind that our sexuality (broken by sin, but redeemed by Christ) is the instrument God chooses to draw us closer to Him. As a woman, I know that I am incomplete without my husband, but to be able to experience this incompleteness is a great gift! As painful as my singleness is, it is also a joyful time, because the more I experience my deep emptiness and incompleteness without my husband, the more I can recognise my utter emptiness and incompleteness without God. And the more I desire marriage, the more I desire God. Even if He never gives me a husband, I will praise Him for helping me to love and desire marriage more, because it has helped me to love and desire Him more! Even single people who never marry can live their life in a deeply "marital" way - by recognising our incompleteness and giving it to God, to let Him fill us.

I believe it is profoundly natural and *right* to want to marry to experience union and a deep sense of completion; God has written this desire into our very bodies as male and female. The self-emptying and vulnerability of marriage prepares us for our self-emptying before God. And the sense of completion we experience in marriage is a blessed foreshadowing of our true completion with God.

[28. a sassy sister said the following at 5:14 PM on Nov 5:]

28

Here we go again.....

While I completely understand Candice's concerns, I think we should be honest here: many of the commenters on the Boundless Line are singles who would like to get married. I don't think those who are argue that the desire for marriage can become idolatrous are saying that the desire, in and of itself, is a terrible thing. But I think as a single, we need to be mindful of the reality that not every person is going to get married, and in addressing that desire for marriage (GOING TO GOD FIRST, then in community with other believers) that we cannot talk about marriage as a "norm". Because we talk about marriage in that terminology, we're talking about it in a cultural sense, not a Biblical one, which turns it into an "us" versus "them" mentality, not to mention a social hierarchy. I think that such a mindset has fueled more division in churches and has made it more difficult to have genuine, authentic, intergenerational community as the body of Christ. Single Christians are part of the family of God, and it would be best if we stopped using marital status as a marker for maturity, success, and adulthood. The last time I checked, spiritual maturity is reflected in the fruit of the Spirit, and marriage is not necessarily an indicator of that.
Marriage is a covenant, and yes, God designed marriage. But God did not design marriage as the answer to loneliness---there are countless marriages in churches across America who are literally wasting away due to loneliness(and other issures). Eve was created to be a helper suitable to Adam to fulfill GOD'S purposes and plans for Adam. It is one thing to say that a person's existence helped to fulfill great purposes for their lives, but quite another to imply that a person COMPLETES their existence and meaning. To do so would imply that your worth is tied to another person, and it is not.

[29. BDB said the following at 5:42 PM on Nov 5:]

29

SC (#26) wrote:

>>If idolatry is attempting to use something other than God to provide the security only He can provide then a desire for a (biblical?) marriage can be just that. <<

I think this is the important take away from the sermon. Let me try and explain.

Thinking about this post today, I can't remember any sermon that talked about marriage being a blessing. But I've heard lots and lots and lots that talk about how marriage is work, work, work, then some struggle and more work. In short, it comes across as being the equivalent of working in a coal mine with hand tools.

I think ths happens with pastors who do marriage counseling. They spend so many hours with people who are struggling in their marriage because they are being unrealistic in their expectations and end up on the verge of divorce because they thought it should be easy and wonderful all the time, and it's not. So they try and re-set expectations for everyone - telling married people to expect work, work, work, and single people not to make it an idol that will give you everything you ever wanted.

This gets trickier when you add it to a culture where half of people come from divorced homes. They might see it as a coin toss: heads marriage is a blessing; tails it's a curse. And they've seen their parent's marriage be a curse, so they don't want to follow that path. The sermons on how it is nothing but work, work, work reinforce how risky marriage is-if the other party isn't willing to work, work, work, you get the curse. So people become super-careful.

Now, people who spend enough time with those whose marriages are successful come to realize that it's not really a coin toss; marriage is a blessing when BOTH people are striving for the fruit of the Spirit in Galatians 5:22-23 (love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control). Those who have seen their parents drive each other away with harsh and unkind words recognize how their parents were doing the opposite.

Perhaps there should be a sermon series on what makes marriage a blessing.

[30. Trevor Dolby said the following at 6:06 PM on Nov 5:]

30

Courtney P (22): I think you've hit on one of the major reasons for the "dysfunctional mating structures" we see. Any time it is more acceptable to publicly desire academic credentials than it is to desire marriage, the impression of marriage as something to be delayed grows stronger.

This leads to a feedback loop, of course, in that guys see 22-year-olds preferring advanced degrees to marriage, and think "well, I guess I've got quite a few years to wait before the girls are interested in marriage"; the guys themselves then don't pursue marriage until much later, giving the impression to girls that guys don't care about marriage!

I don't see how to square this circle without fixing the initial problem, namely that marriage is seen as something be done “later”. There might be a few other things, though; possibly having younger girls state an interest in marriage, and accept approaches from slightly older guys (like recent college grads). At the very least, this would help the guys to pursue marriage at a younger age, and then provide a group of married couples as models for _not_ delaying marriage, but it would have to be managed quite carefully . . .

[None of this should be taken as a criticism by anyone – more like a criticism of the culture in which we live!]

[31. M.R. said the following at 7:07 PM on Nov 5:]

31

If I may share a personal anecdote that will shed light on the harms of making marriage an idol, and the real sin that comes out of that:

I am 27 and single. My sister is 30, and has been married to a wonderful man for 2 years, and has a sweet baby.

For many years, I have compared my life to my sister, partly because we took similar routes in our studies and love lives. So in my head I'd be thinking, well, I'm 26 now, this is about the time her now-husband started courting her, so that should be happening for me at the moment too. But, after taking similar paths for so many years, they have radically diverged - at 27, my sister was already engaged. I am quite single with absolutely no hopeful guy in sight.

For the past couple of years, I realized I'd let bitterness creep into my heart against her - I was resentful of God for not giving me a cookie-cutter story, and this sin invariably harmed one of my closest and most cherished relationships - my sister. It didn't help that around the time she got married, I went through a hellish break-up.

Just recently, by what I can only call a miracle, God changed my heart. I realized I was putting a burden on my sister, that complaining to her didn't help anything, only made her feel helpless and harried. The world, nor my sister, nor God, really don't owe me a living - don't owe me anything. And allowing myself to think they did, even just a bit, bore all the marks of the fruit of sin.

I realized that my sister doesn't not like me, or consider me a burden as a single - she likes me and wants to get back to being a sister with me - laughing and talking about fun stuff, stupid stuff, and yes, at the appropriate times, sharing my pains as well as the joys of my life. She has a pretty limited life now, spending all her days with a baby and her husband - and rather than being a friend to her when she needed one, I was focused on my own discontents and resentments as a single person.

THAT'S idolatry - its effects are pretty tangible. It hurts your relationships and has other negative fruits.

So if you're making marriage your idol, I think it should be pretty clear to you through these negative fruits.

[32. a said the following at 7:25 PM on Nov 5:]

32

Interesting. I've definitely run into a lot of people (my parents included) who make me feel that I am being idolatrous, not putting God first, not being content, etc, by desiring marriage. It's so nice to hear someone pointing out that God designed us to desire marriage. And, I don't know if this is always the case, but the same people who make me feel that desiring marriage is "idolatrous" also push so strongly for education and a career that it seems to me that any idolatry going on is actually them idolizing "success" and important careers.

[33. Sara said the following at 7:29 PM on Nov 5:]

33

My husband is a Catholic, and we were married in the Catholic church. One thing I do like about that denomination of Christianity is that they consider marriage a sacrament. It is very holy to them, and it is a way to serve God.

I think that the Protestant church views marriage the same way underneath it all, but I think they worry that with all the "singles" groups popping up everywhere, they need to keep peoples focus on God, rather than spouse-searching.

Maybe I was lucking, because I was not looking for a spouse when I found my husband, but I still think the best piece of advice is to STOP looking. Put your time and effort into using your talents for the glory of God... there is nothing more desirable than that. I don't mean stop desiring marriage if you want it, but I do think that constantly sizing up the men you meet as husband material or not is obvious and off-putting.

[34. Adam said the following at 7:48 PM on Nov 5:]

34

Mary J,

Adam (#17) I believe we *are* incomplete in our essence without marriage, and when we realise this, it opens us up to God in a profound way. Marriage is written into the very deepest part of our nature. The very desire for sexual union - the realisation that I am not enough by myself - is what points us to God!

Well, Mary, since I am a protestant, you are going to have to convince me from scripture alone. I believe that, when it comes to who I am, and who I will be as a person, the only thing I need is God. He, and he alone is molding me and making me into what he wants me to be. I would say that me not being enough in and of myself points me to God and God alone.

We need marriage *because* we need God. Adam needed Eve because God is not alone: God is a family. He is a loving communion of three Persons. As long as Adam was alone, man could not glorify God and love Him in the most perfect way possible - by imitating His own self-giving, total, fruitful Love.

But that is not what Genesis 2 says. Genesis 2 says that it was not good for Adam to be alone because he needed a "helper." In fact, there is also a grammatical reason to believe that what you have said is not the case. I can't go into all the details, but suffice it to say that, because of the construction of Genesis 2:18, the text is saying that it is Adam's being alone that is not good, and not Adam.

Again, if you are Catholic, we are going to have differences right off the bat, not only because I believe in sola scriptura, but also because I don't believe marriage is a sacrament.

God Bless,
Adam

[35. Kelly-1 said the following at 7:53 PM on Nov 5:]

35

Jeremiah (2) - "To me this feels like God’s wrath or punishment."

YES.

I know I'm not perfect and I know that I have sinned many times. But I've done everything "right" according to conventional wisdom to make me a good marriage candidate. I've got my life together, I go out, I meet people, my 'wish list' has next to nothing on it but "good Christian man that I can talk to"...and yet...nothing!

My entire home community seems to be happily married. My business associates are married.

I'm just very tired of the whole, "Give it to the Lord", "trust in the Lord" spiel. I've been waiting 15 years. If you told me that number at age 16, I would have flipped.

---

So. Because I'm tired of it, I generally don't think about it. I just get on with life. If I think about it, I get too upset. So by not thinking about it, does that put me into the "ambivalent" category of people who seem to be doing well enough as a single?

[36. Steph said the following at 8:19 PM on Nov 5:]

36

ANYTHING can become an idol.
For married people.
For singles.
Anything.

Let's not forget it. I think, Candice, it is helpful for you to remember that us who are single often long and ache and crave marriage, believing it is the "solution" to loneliness. It isn't. I do agree, though, that we must continue to uphold marriage as we do any good and beautiful gift! :)

[37. Melanie said the following at 9:11 PM on Nov 5:]

37

I have a christian female friend who idolized marriage so much she got married to a man who was willing to pay her so he could marry her in order to get his residency... she said it was God's will to marry him but everyone knew the man was only interested in that... and probably the sex part. We all know as soon as he gets his residency he will be out of the picture. She also had a wedding dress ready for years! it really seemed very creepy for me when she told me about it. Yes, a desire for marriage so strong can get out of hand.

[38. Adam said the following at 10:34 PM on Nov 5:]

38

"the guest pastor started talking about the dangers of good things becoming the ultimate things....

I suspect if I could talk to him and get some clarification, he'd say that what he meant was when we desire marriage in a non-biblical way, it can become an idol. And I'd agree with that."

I guess I'm curious what the other things were mentioned in the sermon. It seems like you could make the non-biblical way argument with just about anything.

[39. Texas Craig said the following at 11:16 PM on Nov 5:]

39

Sigh..... I am having deja vu all over again.... :-)

Adam: Great comments. I agree with you that we need to rely on scripture as our authority and I think it is quite a stretch for someone to say biblically that marriage is God's design for most people. At a minimum, scripture presents it as an open question.

On the one hand, you have the Genesis passage cited by Candice and the other verses that talk about the blessing of a wife. But, on the other hand, you have 1 Corinthians 7, which states "it is better for a man not to marry." Now, can that verse be taken out of context? Sure. But, if we are truly fair and objective, we should recognize that scripture does not clearly present the case that marriage is God's design for most people.

Marriage is a blessing; children are a blessing; a long life is a blessing; a good name is a blessing. But, an excessive desire for any of these things can be sin and idolatry, in my opinion. Just as Abraham was tested in his faith when called upon to be willing to sacrifice his son, so we shoudl always be willing to give up our desires as a demonstration of our love for God.

Candice, you made an interesting comment that I would challenge you on. Namely, you praise this pastor for his doctrine, his credentials, his happy marriage and family life, but then say you are disappointed because of his message. Perhaps you should be open to the possibility that, given what you said about your respect for him, that he might be right and God might be challenging you in your views. I am not saying you are wrong, but I think we in the body of Christ should be open to listening to the counsel of those we respect. So, if you respect this pastor in other regards, perhaps you should give credence to his message as possibly hitting a blind spot in your life. Just a thought, offered genuinely in charity.

Peace and grace!

[40. Chanhee said the following at 12:19 AM on Nov 6:]

40

I agree with Adam and SC. It almost sounds as if Candice is saying that in order to truly worship God, one must be married. This is not true. Paul said himself that marriage is not necessary, and if you can do without it, do without it! I think what people don't realize that its not only the marriage of two people that can possibly get in the way, but everything that come afterwards. When married you not only have to look after your spouse, but your offspring as well. People say that want to "serve" their spouse and children, but there is a difference between serving and being responsible for. Also Genesis' portrayal of marriage is before the Fall, we live in a post- Messiah world. Things means our priorities get shifted. For Adam and Eve it was to bear fruit and to rule over the world. As Christians, this purpose has changed! The more urgent and important thing is to love God and love others so that they may come to know Christ. NOT marriage. And I think that what the pastor was trying to get at in his sermon was that we must really question our hearts and intent for marriage. Not NOT to get married. I think what he was trying to get across is that we shouldn't jump to hastily to get married and that we should really count the cost.

[41. Susan said the following at 12:38 AM on Nov 6:]

41

Jeremiah,

"My second question, directed more to people on this board, is: Does anyone else feel like they are being denied God’s favor because of personal or generational sin? For example, I am 32 and have a deep desire for marriage. I have been ready for it for YEARS... house, job, finished with school, mature Christian, etc. etc. I no longer consider myself a youth. Yet I have never once had even the opportunity to “enjoy the wife of my youth.” My relationship history is limited."

At times I feel like it's almost some sort of trick. I desire marriage and I have for a long time. I am 24 so I have a lot of people telling me that I am young and I shouldn't worry about that now etc. For a while I heard "Wait until you're done with school. Then God will bring someone." Where is he then? What I can't grasp is why I desire marriage so much if it's not happening. A lot of times I do fear that it is because of my sins. But God has cleansed me of my sins and they are forgotten and I truly don't believe that He is like that. I also hold on to what I know about His character.

He is not cruel and he does not play "bait and switch" games with our hearts. I have been thinking a lot about this lately and as a sinner I don't think that the idea of desiring selfless marriage would even occur to me without His placing that desire on my heart. It's like my desire to read His word and spend time with Him in prayer. Those are not things that I would have been inclined to do if He had not placed those desires on my heart. I am sorry that I don't really have any answers. I just don't believe that He would place such a desire on someone's heart only to let them suffer and never have that desire fulfilled.

I can offer some encouragement that may help. My favorite verse that I have held on to is Hebrews 11:1 "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." I have faith that He will honor my desires. I understand your pain and frustration. Sometimes it can be so frustrating that it almost hurts physically, but God is faithful. I hope and pray each day that I will find a godly man and marry. Some days are harder than others, but I figure that each day is one day closer to meeting that man.

God Bless!

[42. Candice Watters said the following at 6:26 AM on Nov 6:]

42

Mary J, thank you for your thoughtful comments and introduction of Theology of the Body to this discussion. Very appropriate and helpful! Christopher West has done an excellent job making the Pope's insights accessible to the congregants in the pews! (we had him as a guest on the podcast a while back).

[43. Adam Sloope said the following at 7:52 AM on Nov 6:]

43

Kudos! I remember how guilty I felt for dating. I felt like it was a stupid waste of time. Now that I am in a serious relationship, on the verge of marriage, I see things differently though. When we started dating I felt guilty that I was wasting my time on something as trivial as dating when I could be out "soul saving"! I laugh at myself now. I often felt guilt for pouring myself into this relationship. I wasn't doing anything ungodly nor was I making an idol of it, I was simply putting more effort into the relationship than spending time alone at Starbucks meeting new people and reading and such. My brother told me something that truly changed my thinking on all this though. "Adam," he said, "I'm more proud of you for doing this (the relationship) than anything you've done, moving away for ministry and starting two churches, I'm proud of you because this isn't about you." He continued to tell me that preparing yourself for marriage is one of the most important m=things you can do because it will be your biggest ministry. he said that my marriage will be the biggest way I can show the world how Christ changes lives and relationships, it would be a reflection of His relationship with the church. I think if you are called to be single, which is a rare find, but if you are then dating around is not worth it, but if you are designed to be married then it is important to prepare yourself for the biggest ministry God will call you to. Rant over...Thanks.

[44. Maria said the following at 8:45 AM on Nov 6:]

44

I think you raise an excellent point in this article, Candice. I am in my upper 20's, in a way just entering the world of "singleness." I feel as if every time I express a desire to be married, I am quickly reminded that a husband will not fulfill all of my needs and desires. True. There is only One who can. I know that. But I still long for the companionship and closeness of marriage, but this response makes me feel as if my relationship with God must not be what it should be if I want it from a man. I think this response stems from what you're talking about: an unclear definition of Biblical Marriage.

[45. Kevin said the following at 8:47 AM on Nov 6:]

45

Courtney P (#22) said: I am 22 and I feel like it is ok for me to say I want to get my masters, but not ok for me to say I want to be married.
This is very interesting, and I'm sure many other 20-somethings would echo this sentiment. Courtney, why do you think this is? Is it parents? Peers? Pressure for career/finances?
In my opinion, there has been a shift in public perception of when it is "OK" to get married. It could be generational, but I'm not sure that that is all there is to it. For many of us, our parents and grandparents got married in their early to mid 20's, and yet the average marital age now is skyrocketing! I know in my own experience, I felt pressure from parents to not get married before I had my life together, and I struggled with this concept... sure, we need to be whole individuals and have something to contribute to a relationship in terms of spiritual maturity, financial stability, etc., but there were many times when I thought that Christian love was enough, that it would get us through no matter what worldly circumstances were in store. I was fortunate enough to meet my future spouse and develop a solid God-honoring relationship, courtship, etc. and get married young. Now I'm not saying that to discourage any singles on this board, as God has a different plan for each of us, but my point is that if the couple is spiritually mature, communicates together, and has a plan for life together, I don't see the problem with getting married at 20, 21, 22, etc. that many older adults (especially parents) seem to project onto their kids. Thoughts?

[46. Olivia said the following at 9:30 AM on Nov 6:]

46

Mary J, beautifully said!!!!! I agree whole heartedly with you and have discovered that emptiness/completion in my own life by crying out to God yet knowing that He is with me in the thick of my tears and frustrations. Before accepting Christ, I had no aspiration for marriage, but knowing God more intimately and how He expresses Himself as three-in-one, I know have the hope that my marriage will be a reflection of the intimacy of God.

Adam - in thinking over the Bible, I can see both the spiritual and natural results of marriage. Spiritually, I will refer to Mary J's post. Naturally, we would not be here today if it had not been for marriage and the fruitfullness that comes out of marriage. In our modern times, having children out of wedlock seems to be the norm but evident results show how disastrous it truly is. While children are a blessing from the Lord, absent fathers, overwhelmed single mothers, etc show the flaws of doing things outside of God's will.

Marriage is so evident in the Bible through the Old and New Testament. If marriage weren't so important to God, why would He have dedicated a whole book to love and marriage in The Song of Songs? Whether it is interpreted as Jesus and the Church or between a man and a woman, it is still about the spiritual and natural aspects of a union. Why would Jesus, himself make so many references to the bride and the groom as well as the wedding feast of the lamb in Revelation? Marriage is a part of God's heart because it binds us to Him as well as to our spouse.

I believe that every relationship that have on earth is a reflection of our relationship to God. Whether it be husband-wife, mother/father - children, friend-friend...all are mirrors to ourselves and our relationship to God.

[47. Elaine said the following at 9:33 AM on Nov 6:]

47

At times, I heard some single in church talking both male and female talking about marriage. Every conversation they have is about their desire to be married. Sometime in every discussion in the church programme (bible study class, young people meeting, prayer meeting) you talk to them they mentioned how they want to be marry. This might be the reason why some people might be that marriage is made into an idol. If the church member might assume if the single person is a virgin, the pressure might be greater from the members for the person to get marry. I don’t believe that is right, as if might lead the person to sin or made the person ignore other red flag and get marry for sex.

I was single until my early thirties and I never once complain to anyone about my desire to get marry. Although church members commented that I should hurry up and get marry. Some even said I won’t be able to have children. At the age of 35, I was surprised I got pregnant in four months. I want to get marry but then I realized that my life would be different. If the word is marriage is mentioned on the first date, it scared off men and also women. If a man invited me out and the first thing he mentioned was that I should marry him by month end. I would run far away from him. Dr. Dobson talked a lot about this in his articles. So in the mean time, I went to college twice, went to a lot of Christian retreats and on vacation and enjoy life. Anywhere I go, I never missed an opportunity to talk to Christian male. I realized that when I have a family I could not have the financial resources to do these things. Before marriage I serve on four committees in church. Now married with a child, I serve only on one that doesn’t meet regular.

If you over 30 is not married and do not give hope as it could have happen any day. I know a few persons who got marry in their thirties and most are still marry. It does not look good anytime you meet a single person at church, all she is saying, I want to be marry. Sometime, talk about the weather, sports news, cultural event and even politics. I don’t believe it is a rebuke, but it is boring to hear the same thing every time from the same person. In the meantime, does something with your life, get your high school diploma, a job, a college diploma, and learn a new hobby. I normally notice in church the persons who complain most are generally unemployed. A lot of persons meet their spouses in a hobby class, at school and on the job.

[48. Elaine said the following at 9:39 AM on Nov 6:]

48

Marriage changes things and influence the decisions and affect the time to do things. If a new job opportunity arise, it is easy to relocate when you are single. If promotion came a single will get it as they have the time to work the extra hours. You do laundry for one when, when marry you do laundy for your spouses and children and have to walk and pick up after them. Your spouses might be nice and kind on your date, turn mean and selfish after marriage. Probably that's why marry people are not encouraging single to be marry as they don't want them to become unhappy after they marry. They recognized they are successful and have the freedom to anytime and are afraid this might change.

[49. Candice Watters said the following at 10:04 AM on Nov 6:]

49

BDB, excellent points and a great suggestion for a sermon or even sermon series! Thanks for making them.

[50. Brittany said the following at 10:07 AM on Nov 6:]

50

Wow, I have been so encouraged by Boundless these last few years. I have grown exponentially in part due to the words that have been written here (I've even thought about applying to work at Boundless at some point). Thank you!

Now, this might seem strange to some of you but I REALLY want to get married. I want to cook for a man, have babies, do the whole "First day of..." thing...and I want to do it soon! If there is a Christian man around who demonstrates qualities of someone I would like to marry, I am friendly and I hope that he will take notice and ask me on a date. If he doesn't, I try my best to love him like a brother.

I am heavily involved in my *new* church and I serve in many ways. Practically all of my free time is spent in Church so that I may better server others and so I have a good possibility of marrying the type of man who would also serve there.

I make no apologies for desiring marriage. I can't wait for the day when I will unite with a man and create a family and serve God with that family!

I strongly encourage my 'sisters' in their pursuit of marriage as well. I know that every single one of them desires marriage and I would hate for someone to tell them to "stop or it won't happen". Phooey! I desire to serve God, therefor I put myself in a position to serve him. I want to have deep friendships and relationships with fellow believers so I put myself in those situations as well. To avoid putting myself in a place that will help me to marry well so that I can avoid idolatry is madness! Maybe had I been born before the sexual revolution, I wouldn't have to fight for the right to acknowledge that marriage is awesome and I want it too!!!

PS-If you are not someone who desires marriage, then Candice's words weren't written for you and that's cool! I think it's cool if a person desires to serve God as a single all the days of their life. There is however, a difference between desiring singleness in order to serve God and desiring singleness for other reasons (prolonging adolescence, afraid of divorce/failure, afraid of responsibility, playboy mentality, etc.). If you desire to have sex someday, then get married. You were made for it!

[51. Heather said the following at 10:26 AM on Nov 6:]

51

All of this seems like an excuse to continue whining & crying to me.

As Adam & others have stated several times, there is no Biblical proof that we are all supposed to be married. Is marriage a gift? Sure. Is it intended to be a wonderful thing? Of course. Does God use it over & over again to illustrate His relationship with the church? Yep. But that does not mean it was meant for us all and that we have an excuse to sit around wanting & waiting & wishing.

I'm sorry to those of you who seem so miserable in being single, but when you say, "I desire this so much - it must be from God", I would seriously check that. God doesn't give us overwhelming desires that He has no intention of fulfilling. That's silly & twisted & not the Father I know.

Our desire should be for Him and for Him alone. If you can't see how you can adequately serve Him & worship Him & glorify Him without being married, that is very sad. If you think it's not possible, you're discounting the lives of thousands of Christians - those who are widowed, those who are celibate, those who are not yet of marrying age. Does Grandma become no longer affective as a Christian when Grandpa dies?

And to those that say things like "all I want is a selfless marriage", "why would I even want that if I wasn't a Christian - it's like reading my Bible or praying". SERIOUSLY?! Are you really claiming that in marriage there is nothing fun & interesting for you that makes you desire it? It's all pure selflessness. You just want to give yourself to a man. It's not that you'd like someone to help you around the house, to carry the heavy boxes, to put his arms around you at night, to experience the wonder of sex with, to love you & adore you & tell you you're pretty. It couldn't be any of those things aiding in your deep unfulfilled desire, could it?

PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE question your motives here friends. This is such a dangerous line of thinking & has the potential to cause thousands of people to sit around sulking & wondering instead of making a difference in the kingdom. We live is a fallen world. Things are different than they once were - far different than Eden. We are here to be disciples of Christ and to further His kingdom. To love his people. Not to be comfortable & adored & fulfilled by someone of the opposite sex. The sooner you all realize that, the sooner you WILL find joy in living for Christ in whatever situation you find yourself in & with whatever gifts he has blessed you with. Most of you live in America. If you can't be happy with the good gifts you have been given you have some seriously distorted perspective.

Candice, PLEASE, as someone with a voice & power in having that voice, rethink what you're saying here. Nobody needs any more encouragement to be justifiably miserable. What we need is encouragement to suck it up & live for Christ!

[52. Jim H. said the following at 10:31 AM on Nov 6:]

52

Olivia #46,
I tend to agree with Adam's well-stated position and think of marriage more as a gift from God that many, if not most will enjoy, but not a necessity in case of every Christian. If the essence of being male was contigent on marriage as some of you are suggesting, then Jesus and Paul were incomplete people.

Paul makes it very clear in verses that have already been quoted that marriage is something to be treasured and that most will enjoy, but that the life of a single is also one of value to God.

This idea that all men and women are incomplete without marriage (and therefore abnormal) leads to pharisaical tendencies and the maltreatemnt of singles, especially older singles, in church. It is true that not all of them have the "gift" singleness, but things don't always work out as we would like and churches often add salt to already open wounds by treating older singles as the "hindquarters" part of the Body - something to be hidden an isolated from the rest of the Body. But this is just one particular case of the general tendency for people to value some gifts more than others. For for example, pastors and teachers are often elevated above people who have the gift of service who may please God by doing the best job they can cleaning the church toilets. I believe God measures people by their passion for utilizing their gift(s) to the best of their ability, great or small, so I believe the toilet cleaner with the gift of service who pours his soul into doing the best job he possibly can will be viewed more highly by God than the dispassionate pastor. ALL gifts are to be cherished and treasured by the Body of Christ.

[53. Adam said the following at 11:18 AM on Nov 6:]

53

I think I need to clear up some misrepresentations:

Brittany,

I know that every single one of them desires marriage and I would hate for someone to tell them to "stop or it won't happen". Phooey! I desire to serve God, therefor I put myself in a position to serve him. I want to have deep friendships and relationships with fellow believers so I put myself in those situations as well. To avoid putting myself in a place that will help me to marry well so that I can avoid idolatry is madness!

First of all, no one is telling them to stop desiring marriage. We are telling them to put that desire in its proper place, and to be ultimately satisfied in Christ, so that you will not create expectations in your spouse that they cannot fill, and only God himself can fill. We are going after ideas such as marriage is an individual "need," or that it is somehow a part of the way in which an individual is created. In my mind, these are displaying needs that only Christ himself can fill, namely, needs in relationship to who you are as a creation of God, and your need for your creator.

Also, no one is saying don't pursue marriage either. We are saying that you need to do it as someone who is seeking your ultimate satisfaction in God.

Olivia,

Marriage is so evident in the Bible through the Old and New Testament. If marriage weren't so important to God, why would He have dedicated a whole book to love and marriage in The Song of Songs? Whether it is interpreted as Jesus and the Church or between a man and a woman, it is still about the spiritual and natural aspects of a union. Why would Jesus, himself make so many references to the bride and the groom as well as the wedding feast of the lamb in Revelation? Marriage is a part of God's heart because it binds us to Him as well as to our spouse.

Of course, I never said that marriage was unimportant. I said that whether or not one gets married is unimportant in a Biblical sense. Now, it might be personally important to an individual, and I have no problems with someone pursuing marriage if they desire it, and even pursuing it with vigor, but there is not some Biblical importance put upon marriage that makes it a commandment that virtually every individual must get married, and it certainly has nothing to do with our essence.

Adam - in thinking over the Bible, I can see both the spiritual and natural results of marriage. Spiritually, I will refer to Mary J's post. Naturally, we would not be here today if it had not been for marriage and the fruitfullness that comes out of marriage.

Actually, I would say you wouldn't be where you are today without the cross of Christ. The reason why we are being sanctified, and the reason we will be in heaven someday is due to the work of Christ on the cross *alone." It has nothing to do with marriage, although God can use things that happen to you in marriage as a tool to do his work. However, the certainty that I will be in heaven some day with Christ comes from the fact that he shed his blood for me on the cross two thousand years ago, and it depends nothing upon whether or not I get married.

That ultimately leads me to what I think is the real issue here, and that is the reformation principle of Solus Christus, Christ alone. I can understand how what Candice is presenting would be attractive to Roman Catholics. In Roman Catholic theology, you not only need the merits of Christ for your right standing before God, but you also need your own merit, the merits of Mary and the saints, Purgatory, and yes, even the sacraments such as the sacrament of marriage. Given that view of grace, I can see how one would consider marriage a "need."

However, with the reformation principle of Solus Christus, all of these things changed. The only reason why anyone has a right standing before God, and, indeed, the only reason we are what we are today is because of the work of Christ on the Cross alone. In terms of who we are, and who we are going to be, all we need is Christ finished work on the cross of calvary that ransomed me from my own autonomy, and brought me into full relationship with him. Any additions to that, including marriage, are not Biblical.

God Bless,
Adam

[54. Jen said the following at 11:43 AM on Nov 6:]

54

To Susan, #41 -- you are wise beyond your years :) Thank you so much for your words. They really ministered to me today.

[55. JP said the following at 12:05 PM on Nov 6:]

55

I know that those who don't already agree with me will probably continue to do so, but here it goes.

Genesis 2:18
And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone, I will make him a help meet for him.

Ok I am not referring to the men here (since I am not one, I really can't relate)

Ladies in three words or less why were we created? To help men. Women were created by God to serve a man.

Not enough for you...Ok

Genesis 3:16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply they sorrow and thy conception, in sorrow, thou shalt bring forth children and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

Ok ladies, what is the second part of our curse, in three words or less? Serve our husbands.

So we were made to help man, and we were cursed to serve our husbands.

In some ways I feel that if someone says there is no where in scripture that says we were made for marriage they probably don't believe that God created man and woman in the first place.

Maybe that is too harsh, and I'm sorry to say it. But I am not going to backspace it since I've seen it too many times.

Men perhaps some of you don't have a strong desire for marriage, after all your curse was to tend the fields, but please remember that women were created to serve you, and to help you. What better way to do that but in marriage?

Gen 2:24
Therefore shall a man leave his father and mother and shall cleave unto his wife and they shall become one flesh.

Pastors need to talk about the good in marriage because it will continue to be a desire for most (if not all) women. If marriage is down played women will seek ungodly alternatives.

Desiring marriage is part of being a women, and it breaks my heart when men do not recognize this. Brothers who should be protecting me from sin, are making it very easy for me do the wrong thing.

God made me to worship him, but part of my programing is to worship him through marriage and that *is* in scripture.

Maybe this post is a bit harsh, but the Holy spirit can convict through God's words.

[56. Benjamin said the following at 12:10 PM on Nov 6:]

56

Benjamin, aside for the occasional psycho-stalker story in the news, what specifically, do you mean by "the desire for marriage can get out of hand?"

Well, an easy example might be the number of comments we have seen on this site from people who have gone without marriage for so long that they have begun considering or dating nonchristians. It is a clear example of valuing a good thing (marriage) over the far more important thing (commitment to God and the commands of His word), and I don't doubt that it is fostered at least some by the constant promotion of marriage and encouragement to focus on a desire for it.

Adam is exactly right, there is nothing wrong with the desire itself, but it needs to be put in proper subjection to more important issues in life. Sometimes, for some people, it is not, and warnings along those lines can be helpful.

[57. Julie (Ginger) said the following at 12:47 PM on Nov 6:]

57

Candice, I want to encourage you that I have been impacted in the ways you've been hoping as I read Boundless and have begun to desire marriage. Right now I'm living a life that is less settled than I would wish, and at 26 I've been ready to marry for a few years. A promising intentional relationship ended abruptly early this year, and with the help of your wisdom and that of other Boundless contributors, I have been able to confidently continue to tell my Heavenly Father and other people that I desire marriage, without feeling ashamed or desperate or bitter. Thank you for your work in my life!

[58. MNM said the following at 1:15 PM on Nov 6:]

58

To Adam (#17) and Heather (#51), THANK YOU! I could not believe some of what I was reading here. Seriously, where in the Bible does it say that the majority of people are called to be married? And how is it so unbelievable that someone might make an idol out of a desire for marriage, even a Godly, biblically-based one? Because we're humans, we can take even the most wonderful blessings from God and turn them into idols...we're just that dumb sometimes! :)

I understand that marriage is an absolutely wonderful and God-honoring thing. To me, my parents' marriage is one of the greatest examples of what it means to love like Christ loves. But so is the person who gives of himself on a daily basis to help those in need in his community. Or the single mom who sacrifices for her children. Or high school students who rally together to reach their friends for Christ. I know some might say, "Sure, all those things are great. But they don't compare to giving of yourself in marriage. No other act of love or submission or sacrifice or laying of one's life down comes as close to Christ's love as marriage." But the Jesus I read about in the Bible is not one who goes about comparing people...I do not believe he thinks to himself, "Dude, the single people are trying and that's great. But the married people understand so much better what it means to lay your life down and love like I love."

Additionally, there are so many amazing single people in the Bible...uh, think, Paul...even moreso, Jesus! If it's God's will for the majority of people to be married, wouldn't Jesus have emphasized that during His time on earth? Wouldn't Paul - instead of saying, hey fellas, if you can handle it, stay single like me! - have been encouraging people to get married en masse?

And Mary J (#27)...what? You believe you are incomplete and empty without a husband? I really don't understand where you're coming from. What Scriptural basis do you have for this?

I've been reading Boundless for about a year and have so often found the articles encouraging and thought-provoking. I understand that the current trends regarding marriage and families are often discouraging and that some delay marriage for the wrong reason. But every once in awhile, I find myself exasperated and wondering if I'm reading the same Bible as some Boundless writers and readers. However, I know I need to have a humble and teachable spirit...maybe I'm missing something in the Bible. But I just don't understand where someone finds basis for the belief that the majority of people are called to get married or that they're incomplete or empty without marriage...???

[59. Don Rubottom said the following at 1:33 PM on Nov 6:]

59

Actually, it IS a BIG part of our essence--if "in the image of God" includes "male and female"; Ish called her Isha because she came from Ish; in Hosea, God says that His bride will call him Ish. Covenant communion is imaged in marriage, our maleness and femaleness is "for this purpose". Seeing ourselves as individuals rather than covenant-making and -keeping persons, leaves us confused about our design. Seeing marriage as for us (individuals with apetites or desires), rather for God's self-imaging disclosure (as a covenant-keeping communion of three persons), leaves us confused about the reason to marry. Permanent singleness is for "only those to whom it has been given." By clear implication, all are designed for and called to marriage except the eunuchs identified by Jesus "to whom it has been given". And eunuchs are exceptional, NOT typical.

[60. Lynn said the following at 1:37 PM on Nov 6:]

60

A few things are evident here. People have varied experiences with respect to how/whether marriage is addressed in their churches. Some people have posted that their churches focus on the "hard work" and difficulties associated with marriage. However others (including yours truly) have been bombarded with sermons/teaching focusing on the benefits/blessings of marriage (which can wear on you when your desire for marriage is unmet). It seems that our perspectives on whether or not marriage can be an idol may be affected by which message we've heard the most.

Given my church experiences as well as my understanding of the Bible, I agree more with the ideas in posts #3, 14, 15, 17, 19, 28, 36. A biblical marriage is a good gift from God, and one that I think most people desire (especially people reading Boundless).

However since we are all still human, and we have all sinned (Romans 3:23), and even the best of us often struggle with sin (Romans 7:15-18). OF COURSE the good gift of marriage can become an idol. None of us, single or married, are perfect or completely pure -- and even our best motives can be tainted, or may simultaneously co-exist with impure motives.

I definitely want to be married, and there are many motivations for that desire, some biblical, and honestly, some not so biblical.

I hope (and pray) that I will one day use my marriage as a platform of ministry to singles. Getting married in today's society is just too difficult, and too few people have mentors or positive examples to turn to. Every day I feel an increasing desire to mentor singles as they navigate the path to marriage, and to equip them with the understanding necessary for having a good marriage. I believe that I will be in a better position to do so as a married woman.

Also, I think I am well positioned in my life to truly be a "helper suitable" for a Godly man. I look forward to one day drawing on all of my God-given strengths, abilities and experiences, to encourage and support a husband in his walk and purpose. I also desire children, and want to provide my parents with the gift of grandchildren. In general, I also simply desire the support and intimacy that are characteristic of a Godly marriage, and that are clearly mentioned in scripture.

However, if I'm honest, there are also some less honorable motivations lurking in my heart with respect to marriage. For instance, deep within me is the sinful desire to have my ex-boyfriend(who dumped me) eat his heart out seeing me happily married to someone else. I want vindication for all of the people who think they are being helpful when they give advice about why I'm "not married yet". I'm tired of feeling like the "odd man out" when I'm with a group of my friends who are mostly married - so part of me wants to be married so that I can join the club. Some days I just feel like I have a great body that's going to waste because I can't share it with a man under the right circumstances!

Now - maybe I'm the only person on earth who has ever struggled with mixed motives (ahem). Nonetheless, the point I'm trying to make is that, in a fallen world, even among devoted, Bible-believing Christians, our desire for God's good blessings can indeed become tainted. I believe that overall, my desire for marriage is good and I will continue to pray for it and seek it. However, I must also remain diligent in prayer and Bible study, remain honest with myself (and others for accountability)about the sin in my life, and work to take captive the sinful thoughts and motives that can taint my desire for something good and precious -- something that God in his grace and mercy may also desire for me. There is no reason to believe that marriage or any other blessing is exempt from potentially becoming an idol.

Finally, I just want to say that I am so often encouraged by the posts and comments I read on Boundless. This site definitely attracts a group of insightful deep-thinkers when it comes to spiritual matters! How do I find a church group where I can have these kinds of conversations on a regular basis? :)

[61. Heather said the following at 3:02 PM on Nov 6:]

61

Well, I have to wonder if this conversation is fruitful and if those of us who feel strongly will convince each other. But maybe I can at least convince some of those of you who are on the fence & so I will try.
PLEASE do not take seriously the ridiculousness of JP’s comment. I’m sorry JP, but it’s true – that’s what your comment is. Ridiculous. You are selling short yourself & all women by making the outlandish claims you are making.

First, please look up the original meaning of what has now been interpreted as “help meet”. To help you better understand it, look for other uses of it in the old testament. If what JP is saying is true, than not only were women made to serve men, but God was also made to serve men.

Hmm… really?

Adam was ALONE people. ALL ALONE. There was not one other creature of his same species on the planet. God decided that was not a good thing so he made another human being who could have fellowship with him, compliment him, and oh yes, she also had opposite “parts” so that they could make babies & continue making more people so that he would not be alone. So does that mean Eve was put here to serve him? Does it mean then that all the people that were created after them and because of this reproductive ability are here also to serve him? This logic would tell you that we’re all here to serve Adam – men & women alike. So that he doesn’t have to be lonely anymore. Except wait, he’s dead. So maybe we’re here for something else?
Let’s not take things out of scripture that are not said.
Also, JP, how do you not question yourself when you make a statement like, “So we were made to help man, and we were cursed to serve our husbands.” If we were MADE for it, how can it be a CURSE?!?!! Might it be rather that God said this foreseeing the way the world would become & how women typically would serve men, even though that’s actually NOT what they were made for? Then we could call it a curse. Something which you were created to be prior to sin, however, cannot be called a curse after.

Words can mean a hundred different things. Without context, without understanding of original language, without consideration of all the other words in the Bible that indicate something completely different, we end up making blanket statements that are simply untrue.
And I end up asking myself why. Why would someone try so hard to twist scripture into saying something like this? And the only answer I can come up with is because we seem to want an excuse to 1) either pout & cry & complain about what God has not given us or 2) justify a life in which we are committed solely to our spouse & children because we believe that to be our calling with little thought for the rest of the world around us. Placing this kind of emphasis on marriage – either for the married or the single – distracts us from the bigger picture. It feeds & fuels the idea of the white picket fence & 2.5 kids. And it takes our focus off of serving God & being his light to ALL people around us.

UGH. I’m frustrated.

[62. Adam said the following at 3:08 PM on Nov 6:]

62

Don,

Actually, it IS a BIG part of our essence--if "in the image of God" includes "male and female";

However, that is not talking about individuals having the image of God. In the context of Genesis 1:27, you have the Hebrew term 'adam being used with plural suffixes. Normally, as I have pointed out ad infinitum ad nauseum, when you have 'adam being referred to with the plural, it becomes collective in meaning, and means something like "mankind."

Hence, Genesis 1:26-27 is not showing that individuals are created in the image of God [Genesis 9:6 does that], but rather, how all of us together as the human race can be said to bear the image of God. Hence, the phrase "male and female he created them" would then refer to the fact that God created two kinds of people in the human race, males and females, and the human race can be divided into two subcategories of male and female.

Hebrew poetry does this a whole lot. You will have a broad category given, and then more specific categories are given to break down the more broad category.

This is also confirmed by the fact that we have found many text in the ancient near east which seem to connect the image of a diety with rulership. Are we really to believe that an individual couple rules over the zebras in Africa that they have never seen?

Ish called her Isha because she came from Ish;

But not because she is essential to the nature of 'ish.

in Hosea, God says that His bride will call him Ish.

Perfect example. God existed for all of eternity. Was there something deficient in his nature because we did not exist?

Covenant communion is imaged in marriage, our maleness and femaleness is "for this purpose".

Actually, the "for this purpose" comes an entire chapter later, in a different context, at the end of a narrative.

Permanent singleness is for "only those to whom it has been given." By clear implication, all are designed for and called to marriage except the eunuchs identified by Jesus "to whom it has been given". And eunuchs are exceptional, NOT typical.

Actually, I would say that what cannot be accepted is the teaching, not the celebacy. I would also point out that there is some kind of an act of man in that text, because it says that they have "made themselves eunichs."

God Bless,
Adam

[63. Micah said the following at 3:41 PM on Nov 6:]

63

Hey all,

Going back to the making an idol out of marriage thing. I really think that way too many ministers use this term. Back in OT times this was a very serious charge. People were killed for it. The children of Israel wiped out entire towns/civilizations for it. Now it seems that it is being thrown at us singles as frequently as bad jokes on Hee-Haw. I take issue with someone telling me I have an idol if they've known me for all of 3 minutes or don't even know me at all. Something like that should only be said in 1 on 1 counsel IMO, and only after much prayer. Yes, I beleive that anything, good or bad, can be make into an idol. Heck, using too much toilet paper can be made into an idol if you let it.

Now some have asked a legitimate question concerning scripture indicating that we were designed for marriage. Here's my answer. Based on my years of having a relationship with God and His word I am in total agreement with the concept that God designed most of us to be married and hard-wired us to desire it. Can I give any specific scriptures to support this? No, I cannot. Regardless, it is still my conviction.

[64. Cat said the following at 9:10 PM on Nov 6:]

64

There is only one problem I have with what you are saying Candice. And, in fact, it could be just a matter of definitions. I remember going on a date with a guy who expressed the sentiment to me of "I just won't be a complete person until I'm married!"

Wondering what he meant by that I asked him to expound.

"Well," he began, "I really struggle with lust and getting married will help that because then I'll have an outlet for my sexual desire."

I expressed that I felt that lust was problem that should be dealt with or being dealt with before marriage because even within marriage sometimes. for the benefit of a spouse we must practice self control. As we continued in conversation I found the underlying issue for him wasn't lust. It was personal fulfillment. He felt that a wife would give him the ego boost he needed. A wife would give him authority he felt he otherwise lacked. In the end a wife for this man would be no more then a person to use for his own selfish gain.

Now, I believe marriage is partially about personal fulfillment. But moreover it is an expression of God's love for us. A selfless relationship where each party looks out for the interests of the other more then their own.

I fear that placing too much of an emphasis on marriage makes it seem like we can't really live till we get married and once we get married, all problems cease to exist. But, that may be what you would define as a non-biblical desire for marriage. Just trying to explain my point of view and get some clarification from you.

[65. Amir Larijani said the following at 5:37 AM on Nov 7:]

65

We have the capacity to make anything into an idol. So yes, it is possible to turn marriage into an idol.

Having said that, I can also attest that this rationale is often used as a means to silence the single (man or woman) who expresses a desire to marry.

A minister who attempts such shutdown tactics, will get a proverbial fastball upside the head from yours truly...

[66. Jeremy said the following at 9:24 AM on Nov 7:]

66

Adam (#62):

Actually, I would say that what cannot be accepted is the teaching, not the celebacy.

This is a minor thing and doesn't really detract from your main point in your comment, but I don't think that is true. I had just recently been reading a number of commentaries on that passage for the previous discussion of remarriage, and several brought up that as a possible interpretation. The problem is that if Jesus was giving universal teaching, universal commands (as he certainly appears to have been), then following that up with "Well, not everyone can do this" really would raise rather serious issues about the universality or application of his teaching, and furthermore would not really fit the tone of the passage. I think it makes much more sense for him to have been referring to the disciple's preceding statement, essentially affirming that it is indeed better not to marry, but that not everyone can accept that fact (indicating that it is morally acceptable to marry).

One thing about that passage I find very interesting and completely under-emphasized is the concluding command, "He who is able to accept this, let him accept it." That almost (but not quite) amounts to a singleness mandate! When was the last time you heard a preacher talk about that sentence?

[67. Scott said the following at 10:57 AM on Nov 7:]

67

JP[55] wrote:

Men, perhaps some of you don't have a strong desire for marriage, after all your curse was to tend the fields...

No, God put Adam to the task of tending the garden of Eden in Gen 2:15, well before the Fall:

The LORD God took the man and put him in the Garden of Eden to work it and take care of it.

The curse lay in the frustration of Adam's purpose in tending the ground. Genesis 3:17b-19a:

"Cursed is the ground because of you; through painful toil you will eat of it all the days of your life. It will produce thorns and thistles for you, and you will eat the plants of the field. By the sweat of your brow you will eat your food until you return to the ground...

JP[55] wrote:

...but please remember that women were created to serve you, and to help you. What better way to do that but in marriage?

[...]

Desiring marriage is part of being a women, and it breaks my heart when men do not recognize this. Brothers who should be protecting me from sin, are making it very easy for me do the wrong thing.

Men can just turn this around. If your innate desire for marriage is grounds for demanding that men cater to that desire, what should we make of the lack of that same desire in [some] men? Cannot a lack of this desire be similarly used to justify their singleness and rebut your criticism? To paraphrase you,

Desiring marriage is not necessarily part of being a man, and it breaks my heart when women do not recognize this. Sisters who should be treating their brothers with respect and dignity often regard then with contempt and loathing for not pursuing marriage, making it very easy for bitterness annd strife to grow between themselves and their brothers.

[68. Scott said the following at 11:13 AM on Nov 7:]

68

JP[55] wrote:

Men, perhaps some of you don't have a strong desire for marriage, after all your curse was to tend the fields...

First, as I pointed out above, you have misidentified man's curse. But my question here is that by contrasting a woman's strong desire for marriage to man's curse, you seem to be suggesting that a woman's strong desire for marriage is a part of her curse? Is that so?

If so, then you have another problem as much of human activity is aimed - consciously or not - at ameliorating the effects of the curse (e.g. medical science, agricultural science; in fact, all of science in general).

Should we also be seeking to ameliorate a woman's desire for marriage? To ask the question is to answer it...

[69. Candice Watters said the following at 2:12 PM on Nov 7:]

69

Julie (Ginger) 57, you are very welcome. So glad you joined the conversation! :)

[70. BDB said the following at 3:43 PM on Nov 7:]

70

Candice (#49) - If a series was put together, I would suggest that it not focus simply on WHY marriage is a blessing, which may discourage some people, but also HOW TO make it a blessing. That would be particularly helpful for people who didn't grow up with it.

[71. Marie said the following at 6:40 PM on Nov 7:]

71

I have struggled with my own desire to marry because I have heard that "Jesus should be all I need." I do understand that finding a man to marry will not solve my problems, and it will inevitably bring about a new set of things to work though, different problems that may arise. But I just don't think that Jesus can truly be "enough" in the physical sense. I should look to God for my sense of self-worth, for my purpose, for my sense of completeness in that I am his child. But even if I do that, I will still be physically alone. Loving God and finding my worth in him doesn't mean it's not lonely coming home to an empty home night after night. I desire someone to be with at the end of the day, to talk about my day, someone to encourage and whom I can encourage. My primary love language is physical touch, and I believe that God created marriage as a way of showing us his love in the physical way. I don't know if we, as human, can be fully complete on earth, but I think that when we get married, we can experience another (very important) aspect of God's love for us.

[72. Noah said the following at 7:10 PM on Nov 8:]

72

So as not to beat a dead horse. Food, soccer, marriage, the approval of man...they all can become idols. Very clear. The desire to be married is not an idol, and the Scripture is clear that this can be a good desire, a necessary desire, and an un-necessary desire. Good...because "He who finds a wife finds a good thing and obtains favor from the Lord." Necessary...because "it is better to marry than to burn with passion." Un-necessary because..."one who is unmarried is concerned about the things of the Lord, how he may please the Lord." I'm 24. I'm very single and I want so badly to be married. Idol? Not necessarily. I need to be compassionate to those who have have lived twenty or more year than I and have not married....but my desire to marry is not an idol. But it can be. Being single can become an idol. The problem is not the the desire, but the strength and weakness of the desire. I struggle with the fact that I am single. At times I hate it! (idol) Other times I understand why it is that I am single. (not idol) The problem is in the strength or weakness of the desire. Can the desire to be married be an idol? Yes. Can the desire to be single be an idol? Yes. Thus, without beating a dead horse, to each his own. I am in pursuit of a wife (that almost sounds bad...almost) but I am more (I pray) in pursuit of God, thus my desire is not an idol.

[73. jayme said the following at 7:42 AM on Nov 10:]

73

Why can't marriage be an idol? Can't anything be something we worship, thus making it an idol?

God created us to work too - even before the Fall. Isn't it possible that someone would worship their work?

God created in us a desire for children. Isn't it possible that someone would worship their children and their role as mother or father?

God created in us a desire to be married. Isn't it possible that someone would worship that desire, that goal or that other person?

Those all seem like idolatry to me.

[74. Philip said the following at 8:33 AM on Nov 10:]

74

I wonder if an article by Tim Keller would be good on this, since his latest book Counterfeit Gods seems to cover the topic.

Anyway my simplistic response to the question at hand is that while it is possible to idolise marriage, the solution is not to desire marriage less, but to desire God more.

[75. a sassy sister said the following at 9:57 PM on Nov 10:]

75

Candice,

Isn't it possible that those who giving the response, "back off, I like being single," are the ones who are who simply reacting to constant pressure to be in a relationship? How would you honestly feel if your brothers and sisters in the faith were more concerned with why you weren't having more children than they were about your relationship with God(and believe me, such a concern is demonstrated in conversational focus...)

Again, no one here is saying that desiring marriage is bad....but I think the problem is that many in church either: a)don't want to be straight up with those who desire marriage but are acting so desperately in their behavior and attitudes towards all single Christians or b) complain about singleness among Christians but don't want to be involved in being part of the process to help encourage healthy relationships for singles(whether that may be for mentoring or dating introductions).

[76. katers said the following at 2:07 PM on Nov 13:]

76

I agree. My fiance and I were discussing this yesterday (okay, fighting about it over the phone from our separate dorm rooms with our concordances out and 1 Corinthians 7 up on Biblegateway) and he said that when Paul says that "since there is so much immorality, get married" or "if you cannot control yourself, get married" it means that sex is really the only reason Christians should get married (he said this in reaction to a chapel speaker who told us it was a bad reason...I can understand both perspectives)

I was upset at him because it seemed like an over-simplification and a concession instead of what it really is--the more difficult choice to obey rather than sin. I think Paul said that stuff because he wanted to tell them that, hey, now that you follow Christ, how about you don't use sex to hurt and alienate people anymore? How about you do with it what God wanted you to from the beginning, when he made you? Sex outside of marriage is false and separates two souls from truly knowing each other. If what I've learned about God's intention for it is true, he wants the exact opposite, which can be achieved by his grace in marriage, the true acceptance of another's real soul and real body.

[77. Ted Slater said the following at 2:32 PM on Nov 13:]

77

katers (#76) -- we've talked about that a few times. You may find the following very helpful as you continue your discussion with your fiance:

Marry For Sex

You Probably Don't Have "The Gift of Singleness"

[78. BDB said the following at 3:22 PM on Nov 13:]

78

Does anyone else find it cute that katers and her fiance argue using Biblical reference tools? Awwww...

DEFINITELY better than arguing about something Oprah said!

[79. JP said the following at 9:58 AM on Nov 14:]

79

Scott (67 & 68)

I don't think you understood my post fully because you seemed to miss my point. This is my fault since I must not have been very clear.

Perhaps I can redeem myself,

The first thing I stated was I'm not referring to men, I am not a man I cannot comment.

I was not speaking about marriage, but rather why there is can be a godly desire for marriage, and why women seem to have this desire stronger than men. I'm not saying men do or do not have this desire. But rather desire marriage is part of our nature.

Woman were created to be a "help meet" for man. Can anyone deny that? Even without adding the curse, why was woman created? It's there in one verse. I probably shouldn't have added anything about man's curse, because clearly I was too heated when I wrote my post to begin with and I didn't research the topic enough.

On the other hand, you did not mention anything against woman being created for man. Which was my main point, so as far as I see it, you probably can't disagree with that (especially since that is the Word of God). If you are created for something your desire will be strong for it. The desire for marriage was God given, and when you recognize that godly desire it is not an idol. It is when the world interferes and your desire change to ungodliness that it can become a problem. Many brilliant post above have given perfect examples of this. Mine was not one.

And please understand, I know some men do not want to get married, and women should not pressure these men, that would be sinful. I am not asking Christian men to "cater to my desires." Yet, your "paraphrase" is not completely off, and I can agree with most of it. However my original comment still stands.

I was referring to Christian men who date for sex, fun, and companionship with no intention to marry. I was not referring to those who claim celibacy to serve God. Men who date for recreation are causing many women to sin, and they are breaking our hearts, and there is no denying that. I was merely suggesting that Christian men must realize women are more apt to want marriage, and they should not date unless they are considering marriage as well. They are giving too many of us false hopes, which can lead us to desire something God has not given us, which may be defined as idol worship.

Once again I should not have include anything about man's purpose or "curse" since I am not a man. Scott you did bring up great biblical points in your argument.

But your last comment: "Should we (I assume you mean men) also be seeking to ameliorate a woman's desire for marriage?"

Yes, Christians should be helping women seek a Godly desire for marriage. This includes marriage mentors, single men, single women, and celibate men and women. Churches must help improve her godly desire if she is to keep from sinning. Are we going to create man chasing, marriage idol worshipers? No that's not biblical.

Can we to help shape God fearing women who will submit and respect Godly men, and desire to help them and raise children? That's the goal. Churches that teach marriage in a godly way will help prevent idol worship, and help shape a woman's present innate desire for marriage for service to God.

[80. katers said the following at 7:16 PM on Nov 15:]

80

lol...thanks Ted and BDB. : ) You've got to use whatever tools you've got, and we happen to be Bible college dorks, so we're just picking up what's on the shelf. : )

[81. Scott said the following at 4:28 AM on Nov 16:]

81

JP[79]:

I was referring to Christian men who date for sex, fun, and companionship with no intention to marry.

On this point I absloutely agree with you; this is unacceptable behavior.