Should I Change My Looks for a Guy?: Episode 90
by Motte Brown on 10/09/2009 at 2:30 PM
 iTunes | Listen Now/RSS |
Please don't be offended by all the coughing and wheezing on this week's podcast. All of us but Lisa were recovering from the H1N1 virus. Well maybe not all of us. Mainly Steve. But I was getting over of some vile sickness that took me down for about three weeks. It should just go to prove how dedicated we are to provide quality content for our dozens of listeners.
Did I say dozens? Yes I did. It's my way of expressing our desire to expand our outreach; and my way of asking you devoted fans to send the show to at least 10 of your friends. That is, of course, if you think they'd benefit from it. Or just enjoy Lisa using words like "Blazacious."
Do You Appreciate Your Pastor? -- 00:00
I do. But I don't express that appreciation nearly enough. Steve, a pastor's kid himself, can attest to the fact that being a pastor can be a thankless job. It's funny how easy it is to remember to critique or request but how hard it is to actually show how thankful we are. So this Clergy Appreciation Month (which is October BTW), show them you care. And if you'd like to know more about it, check out Focus on the Family's The Parsonage.
Emerging Adulthood with Kay Hymowitz -- 12:16
Kay Hymowitz is a fellow at the Manhattan Institute and contributing editor of City Journal. She's the author of Marriage and Caste in America which, in part, is about the societal breakdown that has happened because of the separation of marriage and child-rearing. In this week's culture segment, we have the privilege of talking with Kay about another modern cultural phenomenon, emerging adulthood or pre-adulthood as Kay like to call it.
How Far Should Women Go to Look Good? -- 34:16
Thomas Jeffries wrote a blog for Boundless a few weeks ago saying that men prefer women with long hair. It generated about 300 comments ... and this week's Inbox question. What if it's not easy for some women to grow their hair out? And how far should women go anyway to appease what could be considered some fickle preferences from guys? Lisa and Candice cut to the chase and tell young ladies exactly what they should do.
1. BDB said the following at 4:19 PM on Oct 9:
Is the hair blog post the new record?
2. Elizabeth (from Canada) said the following at 7:29 PM on Oct 9:
I really thought the comment in the section about emerging adulthood was good - the one about marriage "just happening" in our parents' generation. My parents say rather frequently, with wonder, "why aren't the young people getting married?" They, and almost all the young people they hung out with, were married by 22 or 23 - certainly by 25. They truly are mystified that I'm still single (at 26). I wonder if there's just a shortage of Reformed guys out there? But then, they were all Reformed, too... (and I don't think I'm being too picky, here - my doctrine is very important in how I live my life, and I think it's important for any future children to grow up with parents who present a consistent doctrine and go to the same church).
Also, Kay spoke of women starting to be concerned at 26 or so about the direction of their lives regarding marriage and children. Certainly something I can relate to! This was the first birthday that I almost dreaded - not because of the age, but because of the dreams that I had hoped to fulfill by now.
And Lisa, I grew up feeling the same way about makeup as your dad. Perhaps it was my steady diet of old books, many of which spoke of disreputable "painted women." I'm still not a fan of it, actually, but I don't try to convert women who wear it. :)
3. Michael said the following at 9:19 PM on Oct 9:
On the topic of men and women and the age of adulthood, adultescence, or what have you. I am a man responding to this vignette.
I was going to comment on sexuality and fulfilling one's sexual desires, but I already know beyond the shadow of a doubt that's been distorted in my life-that wouldn't add anything to the discussion we didn't already know.
I'll freely admit, I am single, never married, don't foresee marriage in my future, much less children. It's not like I haven't had my chances, because I have—like so many in our culture, it seems, however, I lack sound models who are willing to meet me where I am. Instead I get this hyper-critical of me, "Why are you not such-and-such" which only serves to drive me further away.
Concerning having kids, biological clocks, or what not—I wouldn't say it's a biological clock, or maybe it is, but I've pretty much made up my mind, I don't want to be chasing my kids out of the home when I'm 60 years old, which is what I'm faced with now in my late 30s (I'm 37).
Then I heard: "Women are the nurturers." Excuse me? Her DESIRE may be for a nurturer, but women are NOT the nurturers. MEN are supposed to fulfill that role. That's consistent with Song of Solomon, in which men are always initiating, taking up the leadership role, pursuing—nurture goes right along with that. It's no wonder guys aren't getting hitched; they aren't getting nurtured properly.
Even looking at a dictionary definition: 'nurture', to feed and protect, to support and encourage, to bring up, train, educate—all male roles we find throughout Scripture. These are the distorted models I've been given. Absolutely pathetic on the part of the greater Christian community. And we wonder why men like me are remaining single longer.
Bottom line, her desire SHOULD be FOR her husband—men, NEED to be needed; women, NEED your men. Somehow, get over yourselves, you've missed the mark (as have we all sinned and fallen short the glory of God), invite Christ into your relationship in order to recognize it as the gift that it is.
4. BDB said the following at 9:31 PM on Oct 10:
Good segment on pastors. They do burn out. Our church is going through another leadership-development phase, raising up more lay leaders to shoulder a portion of the burden. First they are discipled, then they are placed in opportunities to serve and lead, as servant-leaders, as it were.
5. BDB said the following at 9:57 PM on Oct 10:
I've been reading Kay Hymowitz in the Wall Street Journal for years. Here work is a great reminder that the whole marriage-delaying thing is throughout the culture. Very good observations.
I was sorry to hear the criticism of men wanting to feel that they have a contribution to make. This isn't just a marriage principle. This is a leadership principle. If you want your staff or volunteers to be willing partners, it is essential to identify - and praise them for - the contribution they are making. You will get much, much deeper commitment from someone who feels that you value their contribution.
If the message is, "you can hang around for now, but I don't really need you for anything." Why would they stay? No one is going to be confident in a situation where they feel they have nothing to offer.
The reality is that no one is good at everything. Even people who are very good at their jobs have weaknesses. If you make it a practice to study people, you will learn to identify specific skills that people have. If you sit down and try and identify any activity that you avoid because you're not good at it (e.g. it makes you ucomfortable), look around you and see if there is someone who has the skill set you lack. You may even learn to honestly appreciate skills that are different than yours.
As to the final question, I'm not wearing any eyeliner. But maybe if I was a cage fighter...
6. farmer Tom said the following at 1:45 PM on Oct 11:
Should I Change My Looks for a Guy?:
I haven't had time to listen to the podcast yet. It's harvest time (very delayed from the cool weather), so I have no spare time. But when I read that headline I immediately wondered the following,
Should I Change my Looks for
(my close female friends)ever had a friend tell you that you would look better with x?
(my mother)ever had your mother tell you you would look better with x?
(my job) Ever change a style of clothing because your work requires it?
(your hair dresser) how many women wear a hideous hair style because some person with a few hours of experience cutting hair says that this particular style would look good on you?
I could go on, but the point I'm trying to make is this,
You have changed your appearance at the request/suggestion/insistence of friends, relatives and complete strangers,
why then is it wrong to consider doing something to make your appearance more attractive to a member of the opposite sex?
Why would you rebel against a suggestion from someone who is attracted to you, while you would routinely do that very same thing if your girlfriends suggested it?
My lovely wife routinely asks my opinion on her appearance. And I give her my honest opinion. I think that is a good thing. BTW, I also let her help me pick the clothes which I wear, and how I trim circle beard, and she even cuts my hair.
7. Michael said the following at 5:44 PM on Oct 11:
Well said #5 BDB. I appreciate that--I couldn't agree more. Besides, I thought the thing with finding a help-mate was to complement oneself, not being good at everything, having weaknesses, and having those covered by your partner. That message seems have been lost on this generation X'ers and Y'ers.
8. Carol said the following at 7:21 PM on Oct 11:
You know I had never considered that guys might feel unnecessary around me. I am a very independent person, but perhaps I should ask for help more often. Hmmm. New thoughts.
9. Kelly said the following at 8:30 PM on Oct 11:
BDB said:
"If you sit down and try and identify any activity that you avoid because you're not good at it (e.g. it makes you ucomfortable), look around you and see if there is someone who has the skill set you lack. "
...so I should be looking for a husband who can cook? ;) I am a disaster in the kitchen no matter how much I practice.
(The same thing happened all the way through university in the chemistry lab, because chemistry is cooking. Just as well I can write a fantastic report on what went wrong because that was worth more than growing perfect crystals! ;) )
10. Anstice said the following at 10:44 AM on Oct 12:
I have been growing my hair for the last eighteen months and it is now about 4 inches below shoulder length. Yesterday I had my first compliment from a man saying I look nice with longer hair! I couldn't help chuckling to myself at the same time as being pleased, because it did make me think of the whole long hair post. Maybe it is really an issue after all!
11. BDB said the following at 11:43 AM on Oct 12:
Kelly (the chemist?) wrote:
>>...so I should be looking for a husband who can cook? ;) I am a disaster in the kitchen no matter how much I practice.<<
That's actually a good example. This is not being "needy" and completely helpless. It's a defined area. And I'm sure that somewhere in your church are men who can grill anything. (It IS possible to make pizza on a grill.) Granted, you'll probably be served more steak than quiche, but spinach should never be mixed with eggs anyway.
If you can read Chemistry, you may find Cooking for Engineers amusing.
12. Loris said the following at 12:28 PM on Oct 12:
farmer Tom #6, you're right that people change their looks for much lesser reasons than a spouse's preference. On the other hand, rigidity about appearance can be a problem. I had a boyfriend who wouldn't let me cut my hair or wear makeup. In his case, it was a control issue, not a preference or a religious concern. I got around the hair issue by getting my hair cut on breaks and coming back to college fait accompli, but the makeup part he could see every day since we both lived on campus. I was on steroids at the time for medical reasons and my face was horribly broken out. Not covering the blotches just made me feel worse. I finally figured out that he was trying to make me look plain to keep my self-esteem low and make me more dependent on him. Not good.
I'm presenting an exception, but I do agree with you. I think one's spouse's tastes should change to fit one's appearance, and one's appearance should change as much as possible to fit the spouse's taste.
BDB #5, I think you're absolutely right. It is always nice when you find a friend or spouse who is good at different things than you are. It removes an element of competition, and it's wonderful to have someone to cover those areas you're lousy at. Example: my husband loves, loves, loves computers. I'm capable of checking my emails, playing Solitaire, and rebooting if there's a problem-and that's about it. It's great for me to have him around to troubleshoot, and introduce me to more-informed computer use. :)
13. Jacob M. said the following at 2:16 PM on Oct 12:
I thought it was quite unfair of Lisa to suggest that her male friends are shirking responsibility by working as ski instructors and that instead they should get real jobs and support a family. I fully agree that that scenario should happen, but as so often happens, the Boundless staff are forgetting that it takes two to tango. Is there any guarantee that if the guys got "real jobs," women would be interested in marrying them? In my experience, the opposite is true. I decided to go medical school believing my ability to provide would be appreciated; instead, I see the guys (even in church circles) who are ski instructors and freelance photographers and guitarists having no trouble getting dates while guys like me, who have less ability to be fun/exciting/interesting because we have to study or work so much, are left high and dry.
Again I suggest that Boundless needs to rather sternly put pressure on women to de-empahsize things like "chemistry" and tell them that they need to settle--yes, settle--for a decent guy.
14. Jeremiah said the following at 2:39 PM on Oct 12:
I agree with #13. I am in a singles group at church with a bunch of young professional guys and some not-so-professional ones. Who are all the ladies interested in? The ski instructors and rafting guides... being outside all day gives you a killer tan and some good shoulder muscles. ;) Engineering ain't sexy.
15. BDB said the following at 3:54 PM on Oct 12:
The following is meant to be humorous. Like all humor, not all will find it funny.
Working in industries with variable compensation, I've often wondered about how you measure it when the woman makes more than the main.
For example, is it based on the net or the gross? If he owns real estate and gives to charity, thus giving to charity and reduing his TAXABLE income, does that improve his control of the relationship because he pays less in taxes, or does that hurt his rating because he has less disposible income in his checking account to, say, go to Vegas?
And is it based on base salary or total compensation?
Example: she makes $70,000 base salary
He makes $60,000 base salary.
Is she in control because she makes more?
What if he gets a $30,000 bonus in one year. Can he amortize that over three years and be in control of the relationship for the year of the bonus and the following two years because his total compensation was more than hers over the three-year period?
What about investment gains? If he owns real estate that appreciates by $100,000, can he spread that over 10 years and be in control of the relationship for 10 years?
Do they have to be realized gains? For example, what if his unvested stock options are worth $50,000 - does he get to count that, or does he only get to use that after they've vested?
Or what about a rolling 5-year average? For example, say he made $120,000/year as a mortgage broker during the housing boom, but has been unemployed for two years. If you take the $360,000 it works out to an average of $72,000/year over 5 years, so does he get to stay in control while unemployed until she catches up to him? Or will investment losses, such as on real estate, now be counted against his 5-year total, allowing her to be snarky about previous years when he thought he was a real-estate hot shot?
Or maybe relationship control should be based on FICO credit score instead of gross income...the one with the lower credit score is not allowed to be snarky at all about the other's employment status and/or income...
Maybe it should be based on lifetime earnings, using that annual Social Security statement. This would disadvantage younger individuals and anyone whose missed work or school due to a period of illness. But is it a more fair method for determining someone's overall contribution to the world?
16. Michael said the following at 4:20 PM on Oct 12:
Amen #13 Jacob--"Chemistry" never won anything, a lady's heart, or what not. And while there is an aspect of living in harmony with one another as far as it depends on me, that doesn't translate into a free license to do whatever you want in the name of "chemistry". At some point, as Candice has been so can-DID Huh, did you notice, that word can be broken down into two areas--you can, so you did... Oh, that'll PREACH! Instead of focusing on the reasons why not, the distortions, while they ARE there, the abuses, while they ARE there, and realize, if you can, you probably will, so DO, so you can-DID! That being said, because someone got hitched and did it one way doesn't necessarily mean that same exact picture will unfold for you--because you CAN do something, doesn't necessarily mean you SHOULD. A lesson to all of us--be discerning, test the spirits, test the Lord and give yourself to it and see if he doesn't bless it. Back to the "chemistry" point--my point is, when the chemistry experiments are done, then what? What's left? A blown up chemistry experiment? Or a solid foundation for a relationship? Something to think about...
17. a sassy sister said the following at 6:56 PM on Oct 12:
to Jacob M:
I completely understand you saying that you want women not to "settle" for a decent guy and de-emphasize chemistry. However, please realize that you cannot demand something you yourself and your brothers are unwilling to give. I hear (and witness) too many instances of men complaining about women's standards being too high when I also know that they are completely unwilling to relax any of their own, saying, "that's what I like."
I know plenty of "decent" guys who still have unrealistic standards of women---wanting a woman who is essentially Christian Stepford 2.0 and demonstrate no ability in the means of character to attract or maintain a healthy relationship with such a woman. Translation: If you want a traditional woman, are you willing to be the traditional man (in EVERY sense of the word) to maintain the traditional woman?
And yes, I've told MANY of my girlfriends to drop the shallow expectations and standards regarding a decent guy. Looks and finances change; character is much more fixed. A decent guy is someone who clearly demonstrates the fruit of the Spirit in his attitude and actions; A decent guy understands that his manhood is not dependent upon what others think of him but given to him by God. A decent guy is not someone who has lots of money; A decent guy is someone who is financially responsible so that he can be in a position to advance the kingdom of God and spread the gospel.
Frankly, I think BOTH men and women have unrealistic expectations, and I also believe that a lack of mentoring and discipleship by the previous generation has a lot to do with it. That's probably why I pay little attention to older Christians in church who are beguiled by my single status but refuse to step outside of their comfort zone in regards to mentoring and discipling others---their focus is totally in the wrong place.
18. BDB said the following at 8:44 PM on Oct 12:
Let me tie together the idea of appreciating different skills with the changing-hair thing.
As a general rule, people appreciate it when others learn that someone near them likes/dislikes something, and adapts to it. One woman I volunteer with likes to crack her knuckles. I cringed when she did it but she did switch to doing it in the hall rather than right next to me. I didn't ask her to make the change (it doesn't bother me THAT much), but I was kind of impressed that she made a small adjustment on her own. And, if she ever mentions that something I'm doing annoys her, I'll probably figure out a way to adjust if for no other reason than she adjusted first.
When I bought my house, I mentioned to the owner that I was moving from a small condo, so I didn't have enough furniture to fill the place. Unexpectedly he said, "Well, if you're dating someone and you don't have any furniture, they think you're weird." It seems that he bought the house while single and got married during the time he owned it.
And his wife redecorated. This is the first time in my life where I've lived somewhere where all the walls in room are not painted the same color. It never occurred to me that a blue accent wall could go well with a yellow room. Interior decorating is NOT one of my skill sets. But I have a little more appreciation for how that skill set makes a house more homey.
And I did end up using some of the proceeds from my condo sale to completely furnish my new living room in a way that the furniture looks like it belongs together. Yes, I suppose it's an accomodation for women to adjust their look based on feedback they get. Men learn to make accomodations by ensuring their guests have something to sit down on besides folding chairs from Ikea. (Which I save for BBQs.)
19. Ultraviolet said the following at 7:50 AM on Oct 13:
"I thought it was quite unfair of Lisa to suggest that her male friends are shirking responsibility by working as ski instructors and that instead they should get real jobs and support a family." - Jacob #13
I completely agree!
This actually almost boggles my mind that boundless would suggest this, as a Christian organization. I know that there is a place for financial security, or at least planning for the future and all that, however...when it comes to saying that someone should get a "real job" that strikes me as really off. Especially when what the person is doing could be very fulfilling, something they are passionate about, and most importantly, having an impact on those around them. It could be just where God wants them right now! Jesus didn't call us to have "real jobs." This is a concept I struggle with myself, but that's why it's on my mind right now. He calls us to simply follow him, no matter what the consequences, and He will provide for us. That is not to say that someone should forego any talents that they have been given and stay at whatever job out of laziness...but if God is using someone somewhere how in the world is that not a "real job"?
20. Ultraviolet said the following at 7:54 AM on Oct 13:
Carol #8 - "You know I had never considered that guys might feel unnecessary around me. I am a very independent person, but perhaps I should ask for help more often. Hmmm. New thoughts."
Why ask for help if you don't need it? Isn't that some form of deception? If you're capable (but not domineering about it) I see nothing wrong with that, and something wrong with a man who would be threatened by that. He should be able to celebrate your abilities, and be proud of them, rather than feeling insecure that he doesn't get to do everything for you.
21. edwige said the following at 8:01 AM on Oct 13:
#17 a sassy sister >>That's probably why I pay little attention to older Christians in church who are beguiled by my single status but refuse to step outside of their comfort zone in regards to mentoring and discipling others---their focus is totally in the wrong place.<<
I agree with almost everything you wrote...going back to the mentoring thing... I am not sure...but aren't we(the young ones) also the one who need to approach the older Christians and share our need to be mentored? Well I wish they step out and ask me if I need that, but if they aren't doing it maybe I have to ask them and hopefully some will agree to help. What do u people think?
Personally it is not something easy for me to do...to ask someone to mentor me...cos I feel like most people are busy...so whenever the desire to be mentored arise I just try to forget about it!
22. Trevor Dolby said the following at 11:40 AM on Oct 13:
Jacob M. (13), Jeremiah (14): I know exactly what you mean - most of the younger Christian girls won't even give you a chance if you're not a band member or ultra-fit type :( Non-Christian girls, on the other hand, seem much more willing to give a guy a chance and see where it leads.
Of course, there are things guys can do to tip the balance slightly more in their favour. Building an interesting life is the most obvious one: try new things a lot, learn to dance/sail/ski/tightrope-walk/cook/fly/whatever, lift weights or go running or something to stay in shape, etc.
This is especially true for older guys: girls need some reason to look at an older guy, or they simply won't bother! If your life looks like the life of a 20-year-old, then why should they not go for an actual 20-year-old? On the other hand, if you've experienced more of life, know how to do more things, and have generally more confidence, then that all adds up to a reason for them to look.
23. Jacob M. said the following at 7:57 PM on Oct 13:
Ultraviolet:
He should be able to celebrate your abilities, and be proud of them, rather than feeling insecure that he doesn't get to do everything for you.
This idea has come up in several recent posts, that the more accomplished, educated, professional women of today are having trouble finding mates because men feel "insecure" around them or are "intimidated" by them (and therefore are presumably refraining from pursuing them.) This implies that the problem can be solved simply by men getting over our insecurity and intimidation and just marrying you anyway.
You've got to trust us men when we tell you this isn't true. Women seem to have a curious tendency to impute female thought processes to men. They find more accomplished men more attractive, so they think we should find accomplished women more attractive. Then when they see that we don't, they assume the opposite must be true: our attraction to a woman must be inversely related to her accomplishments, which isn't fair because you spent all this time and money going to graduate school and becoming a lawyer and now men refuse to marry you.
But neither of the above is true. Instead, women's accomplishments simply don't matter either way. We are not attracted to you, nor unattracted to you, on the basis of your accomplishments. We're not intimidated by, nor feel insecure around, women who are more educated than we or make more money than we do. In fact, we are not refusing to pursue such women.
You must understand that your level of accomplishment does not affect how men feel about you--it affects how you feel about men. Like it or not, women are attracted to men who have higher status than they. It's not the same type of status in every case: sometimes it's financial status, sometimes social status (more commonly,) sometimes it's something else. But in 99% of cases where a woman is attracted to a man, it's because he's "higher" than she is in some way.
And that is what has changed more than anything in the last 50 years. Women entering the workforce en masse, female economic independence, has led not to men losing interest in women, but to women losing interest in men. Guys who would have been impressive and attractive to you 50 years ago because of their ability to support a family now make you yawn, because you can support yourself. A guy's ability to provide means nothing (at least not until kids come along, which occurs years after initial attraction;) to be attractive enough for a woman to want to start a relationship, a guy's got to have something else, which in most cases is high social status (think the coolest guy in your church circle.)
Some of the commenters, Jeremiah and Trevor, have implied that young Christian women are concerned with guy's looks, but this is not true. Yes, all else being equal, having a great tan and good shoulder muscles are pluses, but it's not primarily looks that attract women, it's personality. You can be quite average looking, and barely scraping by financially, but if you're that whitewater rafting guide or guitarist, you're the one the ladies want.
Some have also implied that women are attracted to money. Sometimes I only wish it were true that women were impressed by income, or the promise of it; if that were the cases, I as a medical student would have been snatched up by now. But again, more than anything, it's social status.
I say this by way of warning to guys who may be considering doing what I did, thinking that pitching yourself as first and foremost a good future provider is the way to be appealing to Christian women. Not only does it not help, it may even backfire, as you may decide to do something (e.g., go to medical school) which leaves very little spare time for becoming the fun, exciting, interesting, dynamic guy that women are actually attracted to.
24. Trevor Dolby said the following at 10:03 AM on Oct 14:
Jacob M. (23): I'm struggling to find your description of my comments in what I actually wrote - the concept of a guy's looks appears tangentially in a list of things that might "tip the balance slightly more in [somebody's] favour" but the rest of the comment is about what you are and do, not how you look.
In fact, I think we're agreeing aggressively :) The money issue is missing from my comment for a very good reason: beyond a certain minimum, it's not that big a deal for most girls. Yes, they'd like a faster car and bigger house, but it's not that big a deal in my experience.
As per my previous comment, having an interesting life that a girl could consider joining is likely to work out better than anything else, though I may be contradicted by actual girls :)
25. Jeremiah said the following at 10:56 AM on Oct 14:
Jacob M. (#23), very insightful post. I agree with this 100%.
26. D.Williams said the following at 12:39 PM on Oct 14:
@Jacob M. (#23), very nice post and I admire your insight, and I'm a woman;)
I do think that any man with a lot of money can get a female. Now finding a female who is a lady and has good character, that might be a much harder task.
27. BDB said the following at 12:09 AM on Oct 15:
I just saw an excellent example of different skill sets while watching Mantracker on Discovery.
Only this time, the tracker was up against 19 and 21 year old women who had grown up in the British Columbia bush. They showed EXCELLENT wilderness craft! But most impressive was their ability to use terrain too difficult for horses to follow them in order to evade. He did catch one of them...but the other one beat him!
Now, that kind of wilderness craft is a skill set most city women simply don't have. But I found the program...captivating!
28. Andrea-Elena said the following at 11:55 AM on Oct 15:
I don't know if it's that I am in my 30s, am a Southerner, was raised in a pretty traditionally leaning family, or am a woman who wants to join with my husband in creating a stable household (and for me to be a SAHM)... but I'm not attracted to those outdoorsy, overly charming, everybody-loves-him guys. And I really don't meet many of those in this land-locked area that doesn't have skiing mountains nearby! (We do have a LOT of musicians in the area. I mean, this is where the hopefuls flock to. But my church tends to attract the grad students, not the music business folks.) I'm much more attracted to teachers, professors, doctors, IT guys, men in ministry, entrepreneurs, writers, and so forth. It's more about his heart and character, intelligence, intellectual drive and curiosity, thirst for the Word, creativity, passions, and his desire and working toward being the main provider for his family. (I love it when a guy has a heart for teaching people and helping them understand things -- no matter what his profession is.) And as a gal who works more toward the bottom of the "totem pole" in Christian publishing, there's plenty of room for a guy to do well and to seem "impressive" to me! ;o)
29. Joe said the following at 4:42 PM on Oct 15:
There is a load of good discussion in the podcast and the comments above. I just wanted to drop a comment in for Kay Hymowitz to suggest that maybe some of the backlash she is getting from men, is not as much over the content, but over the delivery. Using a terms like "Pre-adult" and "Child-Man" is showing a deep lack of respect to college educated men. Using a term similar to "twixiter" might keep the readers mind open and willing to make a change. "Pre-adult" and "Child-Man" will only put the reader on the defensive, assuming they even decide to finish reading it.
30. Vanessa said the following at 6:41 PM on Oct 15:
#14 - I happen to find engineers (and lawyers and educators) extremely sexy...and could do without the ski-instructors.
Quite bluntly, I like a brain on a guy (in a guy?). I get enough "fluff" talk from the many women around me...it's nice to be able to have an educated conversation with someone, especially if it revolves around networking or cell phone towers...two things I'm very familiar with!