Marrying Young: Episode 78
by Ashley Ramsey on 07/16/2009 at 5:02 PM
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Camp -- 00:00
For this week's roundtable a few camp counselors (including former Boundless blogger Denise Morris) sit down with Lisa to talk about their summer experiences.
Sitting in the studio listening to their camp stories, I thought about my youth leaders who took their summer vacation to spend a week with a bunch of middle schoolers when they probably could have been lying on the beach with their families. I'm really thankful for the choice they made. Those weeks and the adults who chose to spend them with me have truly shaped the person I am today.
Marrying Young -- 21:06
Mark Regnerus, author of Forbidden Fruit, joins Lisa via phone to talk about marrying young. His Washington Post article inspired our roundtable for episode 68, so we were thrilled to snag him for a culture segment.
Thinking About Sex -- 46:30
She's single and never really dated or given too much thought to sex. But lately she's been pondering her wedding night. All right, let's just say it -- she's been fantasizing about her wedding night. But she's not thinking about any certain person, so are her thoughts considered lustful?
OK, ladies, for all of you who didn't have the guts to ask the question this listener did, pay attention because Candice is rolling up her sleeves for this one. You might want to have your Bible handy because she goes straight to Scripture.
Here's a big thanks to Leeland for the awesome tunes this week!
1. Maggie said the following at 8:10 PM on Jul 16:
I enjoyed this week's podcast. I was kind of laughing at how awkward Lisa seemed about the sexual fantasy chat... except that of course my roommate and her fiance walked in the door at the *exact* moment when that segment started! Thankfully I think I hit the pause button soon enough to spare me from some extreme awkwardness from the fiance.
2. Portland said the following at 2:05 AM on Jul 17:
I appreciated the inbox question this week. Why does the Christian community seem surprised to hear that women have sex drives and/or experience a strong desire to have sex? Men aren't the only ones who struggle with lust.
3. Michelle (in the UK) said the following at 6:25 AM on Jul 17:
I have not yet listened to this podcast-i'll be doing that after work today. But I've just read the article that Mark wrote. Has any one else read the rebuttle or subsequent responses and commented on this?
Michelle
4. Mark said the following at 8:53 AM on Jul 17:
Portland, I'd suggest it's because we just plain don't hear about it. We hear about men struggling with lust all the time, but not women. Ergo, women don't struggle with lust, or if they do, it's a much smaller minority of the female population.
5. Julianne said the following at 10:41 AM on Jul 17:
Mark's segment reminded me of a blog post by Jon Acuff yesterday on the stigma surrounding marriage counseling.
http://stufffchristianslike.blogspot.com/2009/07/581-thinking-pre-marital-counseling-is.html
As I look forward to a healthy and God-honoring marriage (one I hope will happen even while I still am 'young'), I've been challenged lately to consider that intentionality in growing and preserving marriage should include such outside input and wise counsel.
I also appreciated the inbox segment this week. Thank you both for being so candid and real and addressing the lust that is so often rampant but hidden in our female christian circles. The freedom that comes from addressing sin in our communities is such a blessing, and I think it starts with the wisdom of women like yourselves challenging us to pursue christlikeness and refuse to accept worldy standards.
Wonderful podcast this week!
6. Lis said the following at 12:51 PM on Jul 17:
i appreciate the honesty of the inbox question. i feel like it can be harder for women to speak up about our sex drives because it never gets talked about in church, like it's normal for guys to have that issue, but not women. god gave us strong sex drives too, but for whatever reason, i feel like in the christian community, women get ignored concerning this issue. even when dating and purity issues are taught in church they always seem to focus on guys, while we are stuck dealing with our intense desires alone, not getting any advice on how to keep our minds pure and honor god.
7. Jen R. said the following at 1:29 PM on Jul 17:
Lisa--
One of the women from the university in Scotland where I studied abroad this past year has spent the last couple of years working at Sugar Pine!! She's about to do urban ministry in Fresno. Small world! :)
8. k.k. said the following at 2:17 PM on Jul 17:
I liked the "Marry Young" segment. Concerning the inbox segment,I know of two of my sisters have similar issues (not necessarily fantasizing, but wanting to have intercourse before they die!) But, I agree with Candace when she says "it's a slippery slope" which leads from an imaginary man to a crush (which may lead in heartbreak) to possibly "R" movies and then to pornography. I hope that she hears it and takes head to the answer.
9. Elizabeth (from Canada) said the following at 8:02 PM on Jul 17:
Thank you so much for talking about that last inbox question! This is something I NEVER hear about in a church setting (it's always about guys), and I've long wondered if I was terribly weird for having such a struggle, as a woman, with lust. Also, because it wasn't discussed at all, I tended to justify it and not really treat it as the serious problem (sin) it was/still is for me. It's only been recently that I've really come to see that some of what I do has had an effect on what I think. For instance, I'm pretty sure that I'll have to give up reading Christian romance novels, because they have a very strong influence on my thought life. As well, most current TV starts to make my thoughts wander in the wrong direction. And, as Candice pointed out, it is easy to move from generic to specific thoughts. At one point, I had trouble talking to any guy without thinking certain things... Really frustrating! Now, after a 6-month fast from TV and romance novels, I am finding that my whole attitude towards guys (and my thought life) has taken a decided turn towards greater purity. But I've spent over ten years of my life struggling with this issue (and giving in mentally a lot), and I'm sure it's not something that's going to be conquered too easily, and certainly not without the Spirit's help.
10. Kelly said the following at 10:53 PM on Jul 17:
k.k. said :
I know of two of my sisters have similar issues (not necessarily fantasizing, but wanting to have intercourse before they die!)
I used to be grumpy over the same issue. After all, why would God give me these feelings if they were never to be fufilled?
I still don't have an answer to that one, so I let go of the wanting and just accepted that maybe it never will happen.
After all, no one gets everything they want!
And for these exact reasons, dreaming of a wedding day (or night) is very dangerous because it plants an idea in your mind that you start to covet, instead of accepting God's will.
11. Charlotte C. said the following at 1:33 AM on Jul 18:
I liked this week's podcast! I had good experiences going to camp and I really liked everything about it. The great food has to be the best LOL
For me, camp really motivated me to take all the good habits I learnt at camp back home. Camp has done wonders for my life and I've learnt so much from it! :)
Oh, I hope you don't mind me asking but where in the US is Ashley from? I like her accent very much LOL
Random question aside, I really appreciated this week's inbox question! I thought my friends and I were the only ones who were like that LOL We'd wonder the church never talked about those issues with women and we just felt like outsiders to ask stuff about that. We never got the courage to ask but I'm glad one woman did. Candice's answer was very very helpful! The scriptures will come in handy :D
12. em said the following at 10:05 AM on Jul 18:
Do any of you think it's worth remembering that not every step on the slippery slope is sin?
Candace basically says its wrong to fantasize about one's wedding night or having married sex - without connecting that with a specific person.
Is that true?
Lust is sin. But desiring married sex is healthy and normal for an adult man or woman. That desire can indeed lead to temptations to sin. But what is wisdom here? Is wisdom telling the young woman that she must NEVER fantasize and if she does she is sinning and will probably end up in some terrible place? Or, would wisdom look like asking questions instead of making rules? good desires that rule us are false gods. are the desires or fantasies ruling? are they becoming demands?
Asking questions and submitting the desires and motives of our hearts is a lot harder than making judgments but God is faithful to give wisdom to those who ask it of Him. But is it not better than laying on brothers and sisters a burden which "neither we nor our fathers could bear?" (Acts 15:10)
13. nameless female said the following at 9:36 AM on Jul 19:
I want to say a big thank you for taking on this week's inbox topic. As this is an area i have struggled in, i so appreciate people willing to get past the weirdness and talk about it. The way sexual sin is discussed in Christian circles you would think it is mostly a guy thing with girls only struggling a little and just with the temptation to do something physically inappropriate in a dating relationship. Almost never are the struggles of a single Christian women addressed. I spent a long time feeling like a bit of a freak because i thought there must be something weird about me to struggle this way.
While i think it is natural and healthy to feel some desire and curiosity in this direction, i agree that for singles it ain't a healthy place to dwell. While indeed the thoughts may start out generic and marriage related, i've found that once you are in that way of thinking it is too easy to slip into thinking that way about an actual person who you are attracted to. Even if it maybe wasn't lust before, it certainly is by this point and is therefore sinful. Probably not going to be a helpful habit in the effort to maintain physical purity when you do end up in a dating/courtship relationship ether! Even if the thoughts do stay generic there is the issue of setting up unrealistic expectations as i'm guessing there's a good chance imaginings won't match reality.
14. k.k. said the following at 7:53 PM on Jul 19:
Ok....sorry for the typos...here are the corrections from post 8
(which may lead to heartbreak)
I hope that she takes heed to the answer.
15. Kathryn said the following at 1:38 AM on Jul 20:
I really appreciated Boundless tackling the female sex drive this week! Thank you!!
I was on a Christian camp this week and one night there was a question to the main speaker on men's sexual longing and the speaker addressed that. The following night, one of the women leaders stood up during question time just to speak to the girls and remind us that it's totally normal for us to have sex drives too, in fact, in this world it's even encouraged for women to embrace it in promiscuity and porn.
It's hard, because on one hand, talking about it can open up own minds to sin as we endeavour not to think about the topic we're speaking frankly about. But we do need to speak about it in forums of gentleness, love and honesty so that we can encourage one another to Godliness.
16. emme said the following at 4:09 PM on Jul 20:
I am so glad that this inbox question was addressed, and would love it if it was approached more, within an article etc. I was talking with some friends a few days ago, all girls in their early twenties, when somebody commented about how difficult it was not to fantasize when so many books, movies etc. show sex so often, and when we are nowhere near the point of experiencing it. After she shared that, it turned out every other girl in the group of 10 admitted they struggled with it too. I think that it is ignored too much...when discussions of lust come up for women it's usually about dressing modestly etc. So I was really glad for this inbox question :)
17. Joyce said the following at 8:11 AM on Jul 21:
Thank you for answering the inbox question! This is a big struggle for me too since I am already 26 years old but have never had a boyfriend or fallen in love. In fact, it is hard or almost impossible for me to have a crush on a man.
But every night, I always imagine myself being married, making love and having children. I will remember what you all said and have faith in the Lord. Thank you and God bless!
18. Megs said the following at 11:58 AM on Jul 21:
To echo many of the comments above me: I'm glad to see the topic of the female sex drive addressed within a Christian context. A few weeks ago I was talking to a friend about the almost complete lack of acknowledgment the church gives to women's lust. She was quick to agree with me that lack of a Y chromosome doesn't point to lack of a sex drive! I agree with Emme (#16)--I think this topic would make an excellent basis for an article.
19. Tiffany said the following at 4:56 PM on Jul 21:
I rarely agree with things said here on Boundless, but I would wholeheartedly echo what Candice said. I used to be at that point where it was a general fantasy, but now that I'm much further down the slope, I would advise you not to go there. It's a lot harder to look back on this end and wonder if you can go backward.
20. Felicia said the following at 3:26 PM on Jul 22:
Just listening to the cast this week. I hate the argument that you can't marry young because you'll change. If you're married you'll change TOGETHER! Sheesh, how hard is that to figure out. You're always going to change. People married for 20 years 'grow apart' not because they married too young, but because they didn't work on staying connected to each other. You always have to work at it, all the time.
And on that second segment with the 'sexpert', poor Lisa! The guy had good info but I think you got him when he was really tired.
21. Katie said the following at 4:18 PM on Jul 22:
I didn't hear this podcast, but read the Washington Post article and some of the (mostly) negative comments about marriage at a young age. I married at age 18, 21 years ago. I was a sophomore in college at a liberal university and I can attest to the very negative social stigma attached to that decision, even back in the 80s. While I married a wonderful, godly man and we have built a good life together, that sense of being a "freak" has never quite left me. I believe , for a variety of reasons, that was the right, God-honoring decision for me, but it came at a price. I have had to seriously struggle with following God v. fitting in. If I wanted to fit in, I should not have married when I did. It is definitely something to consider for those contemplating marriage at a young age. It is all too easy to allow the world's view of marriage to seep into one's psyche. I had the opportunity to opt-out, by simply saying "I was too young." I did not choose to do that and I can see how God has truly blessed that decision, but it is not for the faint-of-heart! Being a social pariah is not easy to cope with.