You're How Old?: Episode 74
by Ashley Ramsey on 06/18/2009 at 3:30 PM
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You're How Old? -- 00:00
Age differences. You've read about it on the blog and now we're bringing it to the roundtable. Ted and Suzanne brought in their "others" Ashleigh and Kevin to talk about their age difference experience. If you're wondering how to deal with an age gap, these two couples have a great perspective so listen in.
Jeff Caylor -- 27:07
For this week's culture segment we have our good friend Jeff Caylor on the line from Hong Kong to talk about his new album What Birds Dream, his upcoming nuptials and Michael Jackson cover songs. Jeff is not only our culture guest but also our featured musical artist.
He Likes me, He Likes me Not -- 47:17
He texts, he flirts, he asks her to coffee and then ... nothing. You know that story, the one with the guy who acts like he likes the girl but then for some unknown reason he stops talking to her. Apparently this guy can't make up his mind and she wants to know what to do about it. Does she call him out? Can they still be friends? Suzanne and Lisa give some been-there-done-that advice.
Ted brought his Flip videocamera to the studio this week, catching us as we prepared for the recording. Check it out:
1. Amy said the following at 4:06 PM on Jun 18:
Suzanne, I love your sparklie! Congratulations!
2. Tami said the following at 4:18 PM on Jun 18:
The video gives Suzanne's surprise away :)
Ted and Ashleigh look like two peas in a pod!
3. Lisa Anderson said the following at 4:37 PM on Jun 18:
I literally did not know you were taping until the last few seconds of that clip. Eish.
4. Rachael Starke said the following at 5:13 PM on Jun 18:
Lisa - The hair ROCKS. Listen to that hairdresser. ;)
5. Dannie said the following at 7:39 PM on Jun 18:
For the record....You all look adorable...
6. BDB said the following at 8:02 PM on Jun 18:
Congratulations Suzanne!
The age discussion was quite interesting.
Yes, it's true that people over 30 who aren't married, both men and women, there's probably a reason. It's good to identify the reason and make sure it's not a deal-breaker.
For example, a guy who does the math at 22 might realize that he's in absolutely no position to support a family, and decide that it would be wrong to date anyone until he can. So he focuses on putting his financial house in order. A logical dividing line is owning a condo or house first is the right thing to do.
Unless he meets someone who says, "Gosh, wouldn't it be better to build that together?" it might take 10 years to be in a position to purchase real estate alone. And frankly, anyone who does this is probably going to take a lot of static from people who tell him to blow his money on fun stuff instead of saving and paying off debt.
I know a couple where the guy is 10 years older. That's basically what he did, building up his own business.
The other part of it was that his mom had cancer. The woman he married also had a mom who was a cancer survivor. That experience forced a level of maturity on both of them that most people don't have. Family wise, she was ready to be a mom immediately after college. A guy who'd spent 10 years preparing financially was ready to do that immediately. They have 3 kids now.
While her dad (a friend of mine) was initially unhappy about the age difference (he came to my office one day wanting to know where young people were meeting these days so he could find a way to distract her), with three healthy grandkids no one cares anymore.
7. Jen said the following at 8:32 PM on Jun 18:
It's so weird to see that you have faces! Of course, obviously you do, but it's good to have it clarified. Just in case. :).
And congrats, Suzanne!
8. BDB said the following at 8:51 PM on Jun 18:
For the "He likes me, he likes me not" segment, the first thing that sprang to mind was that, over coffee, she said something about The Shack that was a deal breaker; such as one of them thinks it's a heretical book and the other one thinks it's life-changing. Those little deal-breakers can slip out over coffee...
But, the scenario indicates multiple invitations. I think Elisabeth Elliot describes the situation best, in that there is so much confusion because there is no longer any agreement on the proper form of approaching marriage.
Lots of women extend invitations, too. This may be more true among non-Christian women and divorced women. But unless a man reads Boundless or Elisabeth Elliot, it might not occur to him that he should decline invitations from women, particularly those he'd never consider marrying. Women get just as upset if a man accepts several of their invitations but he never gets motivated or interested enough to do more than enjoy her company. Elliot's answer to the women upset by these circumstances is to point out that the women shouldn't have taken the initiative in the first place.
I do notice that women in their 20's are a lot more open than women in their 30's. I suspect that this is in part due to the older women having some sort of bad experience, and resetting their boundaries more conservatively. I only know a couple of single people with a broken engagement in their past, but it's like they live in a little fortress. Unfortunately, it seems that those with the conservative boundaries don't communicate them, and then get upset when men don't figure out where the landmines are in advance.
The Home Depot example got me thinking. The idea of never spending time alone with someone unless officially dating seems, well counterproductive.
Another place to draw the boundary is one (1) lunch or coffee. I know that for me, one lunch or cup of coffee is enough time to determine whether someone is a sincere Christian (willing to subordinate their career goals to God's plan for their life, for example), whether they are involved in their church (do they volunteer?) and an idea about their free-time values (such as whether all their stories are about being drunk in various cities around the world.)
The first cup of coffee is also a great time to ask if they've ever read anything by Elisabeth Elliot, or Boundless or to specifically ask which Christian authors they read. If they've never read any of these authors, it's a good sign they are drawing their courtship model from the secular world.
THEN you can explain to them how your views are specifically different than the secular world, and you only accept a 2nd lunch invitation from men who are sincere about marriage.
But if they're not familiar with the theory, they'll probably assume that the woman a) is not and will never be interested in him, or b) has abitrary and capricious boundaries.
Meanwhile, there will be some bubbly 20-something who is inviting him for a cup of coffee after volunteering together, and he'll go talk to her instead. It's just coffee...right?
9. Tami said the following at 11:40 PM on Jun 18:
BDB, you should make a Facebook quiz or something based on comment 8 ;)
Example:
Your date knows Elisabeth Eliot as:
a) too conservative for his/her approach to dating/courtship/hanging out
b) the woman who wrote the only dating/courtship/hanging out book that was around when he or she was in college
c) the woman who wrote the foreword to I Kissed Dating Goodbye
d) HEY, WHO IS SHE TO TALK ABOUT PATIENCE IN SINGLENESS WHEN SHE GOT MARRIED THREE TIMES???
e) TS Eliot's sister? Maybe? Was she a poet, too?
10. Alison said the following at 8:18 AM on Jun 19:
Ted,
I'm in my late twenties. Dating guys in their thirties has some appeal to me. SO, I'm wondering how does a girl awaken a single 30something guy to start thinking about relationships? As you mentioned in the podcast their is often a reason why some men are still single in their 30s. There is a guy in my church from what I observed is single probably because of his busy career and the fact that he is a bit shy/reserved. I on the other hand am very extroverted. (I talk to the grocery store cashiers, bus drivers, etc.). How do I get to know this guy without scaring him off?
Also, I have noticed at church that a lot of the younger females have also taken interest in the older guys. It often seems like a competition at church between the younger ladies vs the older ladies. Any advice on how to navigate these situations?
Thanks!
11. Kellie said the following at 8:44 AM on Jun 19:
I have to admit, I would be concerned if one of my sisters started dating a guy 12 years older (that's the age difference between my husband--who is 5 years older than me--and my youngest sister).
12. Anstice said the following at 9:35 AM on Jun 19:
Re: The little video clip prior to the podcast: Lisa, you use the word "hoot"! As in "he's a hoot". That is so great. My family use it too (we got it from my mother) but I've never heard anyone else say it, and it makes people look at me oddly when I say it. Is it more common over in America? Where did you get it from?
Love the hair by the way! Although from listening to your voice I always imagined you as blonde. I have no idea why.
13. Rachael said the following at 9:47 AM on Jun 19:
About age & habits. While everyone can have habits, for some people, perhaps age influences the depth of the habits to some degree. Like with regard to independence.
Like for example...spouses that go on trips or schedule themselves up for personal activities that don't involve their spouses.
A young person might not have developed these habits (especially the flying ones) as fully as an older person might have when single.
A travel habit might have been formed prior to marriage.
For instance. My husband travels. Before he met me, he did TONS of traveling (flight), mostly work-related. And he did a lot of work-related flight travel when we were dating...
While in comparison to his past, his traveling life is not as strong now, he has still taken some trips since we married in January. (I did join him for a trip before, though, and just recently I joined him for part of a trip.)
I think he'd recognize that there is more travel for him now than awhile ago in our marriage, but, I think in the past when talking about traveling he felt he didn't travel much when I felt he did (maybe I'm wrong, but it's my sense we had a disconnect in that area).
And a friend (A) told me about our friend (B) whose husband is or was busy with activities. I think he also took or takes trips. Anyway, A told me that B ended up dealing with her situation by deciding her attitude was silly. I admire that, if that's what she did.
It's awesome if someone can get to the point of working on themselves selflessly no matter what their circumstances are.
The flight issue I don't think is the biggest problem in our relationship right now. And currently his flying is for stuff I understand. I am not or was not thrilled about his decision to accept an honorable volunteer role which involves travel to meetings, but, it might be a good thing that he has that in his life right now.
But in the future if he travels or extends a trip that I feel is unnecessary, it would be nice if I would learn to handle it well or/and automatically turn to God if it is hard.
14. Jo said the following at 10:07 AM on Jun 19:
Lisa you rock, as does the hair. But when someone complements you, just say "Thanks". :P Your hairdresser sounds awesome though! And I used to have stripes in my hair too, black and red... sounds kinda gothic but it was funky, I swear.
15. Rachael said the following at 10:21 AM on Jun 19:
re: 10
Sad that it seems like a competition. I wonder if competitiveness is often part of our nature? Like, I ran a race recently, and I think I was recognizing uglies in me in my attitude toward at least 2 women. While passing people in races happens, and I may have done that, I feel that at least one time I did it in a bad way, or especially bad way (not leaving too much room in front of her before cutting over, I think).
I came across the article (on Radiant) called "Praying for the 'Haves' When You're a 'Have-Not' on Radiant, by Marlo Schalesky. At some point after linking to it on my blog, I noticed it got taken down, so I contacted the author who graciously responded her plan to post it on her blog.
I even wrote "'Have-not' praying for 'Haves'" in my Bible, next to this verse that seems to relate to that idea - 2 Cor. 13:9: "For we are glad when we are weak and you are strong. Your restoration is what we pray for."
I am not writing this as someone who wishes for the 'haves' well-being. I can get jealous and feel hurt and insufficient. I can want to be the best of the best too much.
But from an 'ideal' standpoint, it would be great if my attitude could shift to care for others' well-being more than my own, or not feel yucky when others may have had a position I wish they didn't have.
My yuckiness in this area surfaced clearly yesterday in regard to pictures of people from my husband's past.
So I guess in regard to comment 10's feeling of competition....maybe people in those situations could try to relinquish the winning lead? That's what I should do in my heart often times, when I want to be regarded very highly according to my thinking. The 'should dos', though, can seem impossible and overwhelming.
I want to learn to look to God and understand the power of salvation on a more frequent basis...but...are those just words? Do I love my sin more? Honestly I think I do. I subconsciously think my sin will cause alleviation or a better feeling, perhaps. But it doesn't. In my head I know there is power in salvation. But in reality it seems mysterious and unreachable.
I came across a link on a blog that talked about the book "The Bookends of the Christian Life" (or something) and it gave examples of how to preach the gospel to yourself in adapting verses to your life situation and putting your own sins in the appropriate spots in the verses. It seems neat. Maybe if I did it regularly it would help my heart. But perhaps I lack faith...
Anyway...perhaps 10's post wasn't meant to be too deep, but maybe someone else can gain something from this post. Maybe I can gain something too, if I turned to God and if I put the preaching the gospel to myself thing into practice ...
16. BDB said the following at 1:17 PM on Jun 19:
Alison (#10) wrote:
>>How do I get to know this guy without scaring him off?<<
Well, it kind of depends on what decisions he's made. Here are three possible scenarios to think about.
He may be interested in a specific woman who's not (yet) interested in him. They may be having an e-mail conversation below the radar. If this is the case, he won't be amenable to being approached.
He may have had a bad experience with someone unkind in the past, and decided to step back from getting to know anyone. If this is the case, any women approaching him will probably just make him more uncomfortable, especially if they immediately suggest that he should be dating someone.
Finally, he may have noticed that the best marriages happen when both people share a common destiny. If he has identified a calling, he may have decided that it would be inappropriate to date anyone who doesn't already share that calling.
Here there is an opportunity. There's no reason you can't ask him where he volunteers. You can also ask how his volunteering and work fit together into God's overall plan for his life. If he is destiny-oriented, this will likely get him to open up.
The advantage of this is that you find out whether it's a destiny you'd be prepared to accept.
17. Chris said the following at 3:51 PM on Jun 19:
In keeping with this week's episode make sure you're informed of the humorous formula that governs if an age difference will be awkward in dating:
1/2 the older person's age + 7
Cheers!
18. Lisa Anderson said the following at 4:58 PM on Jun 19:
Anstice (#12): Not sure where I got the phrase from...I feel like I've used it for quite a while. It should be noted that I am newly interested in owls. "Hoot" made me think of owls, though I'm not thinking of owls (necessarily) when I say "hoot." I bought a mug with owls on it the other night, and I love it.
Ok, in other news, get this: Yesterday for my bday I straightened my hair and flipped it to one side on top. I am not kidding, it became blonder. So now I have an alter-ego as a blonde. Check it out here.
Am I known for saying deep and relevant things here or WHAT? :)
Hope everyone's having a great day!
19. Tom Neven said the following at 9:59 PM on Jun 19:
I was having coffee with a friend at the local Starbucks the other day when Suzanne walked in, said hi to me, and then gave the barista a big hug. I thought, Boy, she really likes the coffee here.
Little did I know.
By the way, Suzanne, did you take a picture of the coffee cup as I suggested?
20. James said the following at 3:31 PM on Jun 20:
BDB I have to say I'm not really understanding your points.
"Yes, it's true that people over 30 who aren't married, both men and women, there's probably a reason."
I guess I don't care for the assumption here... my reason is I simply haven't found a match yet, I hope that's ok.
"I know that for me, one lunch or cup of coffee is enough time to determine whether someone is a sincere Christian" Wow, that's quite the cup of coffee! I guess I'm interpreting this to mean if someone doesn't have everything on the checklist checked off they're not "sincere?" And if they do it's a guarantee they are? I simply don't agree with this.
"If they've never read any of these authors, it's a good sign they are drawing their courtship model from the secular world." I haven't read those authors, and I don't think I'm at a disadvantage. I learn from scripture, teaching, and the examples Ive seen (both good and bad) over the yrs.
"Meanwhile, there will be some bubbly 20-something who is inviting him for a cup of coffee after volunteering together, and he'll go talk to her instead. It's just coffee...right?" Yes it is actually. I approach meeting for coffee as just that, and hopefully having a nice discussion and getting to know the other person a bit. I just don't see it as wise to make it the litmus test for a person's spirituality and eligibility as a spouse.
21. Rachael said the following at 3:40 PM on Jun 20:
Just a lightweighted suggestion as to what might be a contributing factor to the singleness a few people now in their 30s or 40s...
...maybe some people weren't highly attracted to the popular fashion and other aspects of physical presentation of the opposite sex in the 80s and early 90s.
I suppose not every woman who was in her 20s in that time period would fall into the 'common' looks category of that era, and several women still had to be pretty then, but, I wonder if the fashion, etc., sense could be one reason for a lack of attraction to particular people for some men (like men who might be more attracted to a more natural look, which is commonly found nowadays)...and I wonder if some of the popular physical presentation stuff masked some people's actual beauty.
Anyway, I just wonder if the style then may have negatively impacted some people's attraction to particular members of the opposite sex when those same people might have been attracted to them had they been the same age in a different decade...
22. Trevor Dolby said the following at 4:44 PM on Jun 20:
Tami (9): Lol! That sounds like a much better Facebook quiz than many I've done :)
23. BDB said the following at 8:57 PM on Jun 20:
James (#20) did you listen to the podcast? The comments won't make sense unless understood in the context of the podcast.
24. Christina said the following at 10:14 PM on Jun 21:
I really enjoyed the roundtable about age difference in relationships. I appreciate that the topic of older women becoming bitter when a man their age pursues a younger woman. As much as I would like to deny it, I have become bitter. This podcast has really convicted me of this, so thank you for talking about that issue.
25. Kellie said the following at 3:22 PM on Jun 22:
Regarding #8 and #20: For me, after the first cup of coffee, I was pretty sure I had met my husband (and I was right!).
26. Jeni said the following at 4:32 PM on Jun 22:
Ah...the in-box section seemed to directly apply to me. Good thoughts. Thanks for that.
Regarding the competition between women over men thing: it needs to be beat down regularly. The competition happens between the older vs. younger single women, the I've-been-around-for-20- years vs. the new girl at church, the glamor girl vs the girl next door, the clam and kind girl vs. the loud party girl, and the list could go on and on. In my circles, I think the competition thing is fueled by the fact that there are seemingly far more available Christian ladies than available Christian men.
And maybe that's why I hesitate to address the "buddy situation".