Dr. Dobson Condemns Tiller Slaying
by Motte Brown on 06/01/2009 at 12:32 PM
[From Citizenlink.org]
Focus on the Family founder and chairman emeritus James C. Dobson, Ph.D., issued the following statement Sunday on the slaying of late-term abortionist George Tiller:
"We are shocked by the murder of George Tiller, and we categorically condemn the act of vigilantism and violence that took his life. America has from its foundation respected the rule of law, by which every citizen is guaranteed life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Those constitutional rights are forfeited only when crimes have been committed, and the perpetrator is charged and found guilty by a jury of his or her peers in a court of law.
"Tiller recently faced serious charges related to the killing of babies in violation of the law, by the most grotesque procedures administered without anesthetics or compassion. We profoundly regretted the outcome of his legal case, believing the doctor had the blood of countless babies on his hands. Nevertheless, he was acquitted by the court and declared 'not guilty' in the eyes of the law. That is our system, and we honor it.
"Our condolences are extended to the Tiller family. The person or persons responsible for his death should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law."
1. obewan said the following at 12:41 PM on Jun 1:
I don't know what good the person who killed him expects to come out of this. He for sure does not recognize the damage he has done to the pro-life cause with his unlawful action. Now, those who oppose the pro-life cause have more to throw in our face when they attack us. And not many days ago we were debating why the government was placing known anti-abortion protesters on the homeland security "watch list". Well, it is now going to be even harder for us to say, "I wonder why?”
2. EKB said the following at 1:24 PM on Jun 1:
It's frustrating that .00001% of the "pro-life" crowd can do so much damage to the cause.
3. Allan said the following at 1:26 PM on Jun 1:
He obviously didn't understand the term "Pro-life" either...Wether baby or adult the ending of someone'
s life is not "Pro-Life" Seriously this will make us look bad again. But we need to distance ourselves from these things anyways. If we fight for righteousness it should be with the righteousness of Heaven never our own fility rags...
4. Adam said the following at 2:44 PM on Jun 1:
Do we have one iota of evidence that this shooting was based on Tiller's profession? I mean, obviously that seems to make the most sense. But people have committed murder because someone does something like cuts them off in traffic. Perhaps we should get some real evidence before blaming some anti-abortion extremist.
5. Lizzie said the following at 3:30 PM on Jun 1:
obewan (#1):
And not many days ago we were debating why the government was placing known anti-abortion protesters on the homeland security "watch list".
I thought about this too when I read about this incident this morning. :(
Adam (#4):
I don't know anything about the suspect in this case, but Tiller has been attacked before because of his profession; according to the article I read, he was once shot in both arms by an abortion opponent. So it makes it that much easier to assume that his attacker was an anti-abortion extremist.
6. Bryce said the following at 3:37 PM on Jun 1:
Adam: Yes, the man who killed (last I read he was just a suspect, no charges file. He is probably charged by now) Mr. Tiller was a known anti-abortion advocate.
In fact, he posted to a anti-abortion forum stating Mr. Tiller had to be taken out 'before more damage was done' (or something to that effect).
7. Trisha said the following at 4:05 PM on Jun 1:
I'm have been involved with a peaceful, prayful pro-life, anti-abortion group for over a year & I'm very shocked at this! It is violence pro-lifer's who give up peaceful, prayful pro-lifer's a bad rap!
8. Jethro said the following at 4:25 PM on Jun 1:
It is heartening to see so many in the pro-life cause rightly condemning this atrocity. It is also disturbing to see the silence and omissions from many others.
It is interesting that just a month ago, on this very blog, Dr Sarfati downplayed the risk of Christian vigilantism/terrorism.
9. Keith said the following at 4:42 PM on Jun 1:
What shocks me is that this guy actually went to church. I just don't understand how a "Christian" could be involved with late term abortions.
Then again, many "Christians" support killing people through other ways. I recall seeing a church person selling cigerettes at a store and thinking how that kills people too.
While we can be quick to judge an abortion doctor, the potential to take part in actions that kill other is in all of our hearts. Let us examine our own hearts during this time.
10. BDB said the following at 4:58 PM on Jun 1:
It is important to remind people that violence is not an acceptable form of political protest.
11. J. Tucker said the following at 5:24 PM on Jun 1:
This is probably going to be incendiary, but were any of you surprised to find out that a late-term abortionist was in church when he was shot? I know that such a feeling might considered to be judgmental and myopic, but I know I was surprised. This was a Christian who was at the center of the most controversial abortion practices.
Quite frankly, it causes me to be introspective to think that a person I would consider to be such a sinner considered himself to be a Christian. It's a good thing that God forgives and that His grace is sufficient for everyone, including me. No offense intended - just thought provoking.
12. JB said the following at 6:17 PM on Jun 1:
So Dr. Dobson believes that Tiller is in fact guilty of murder, but due to procedural reasons does not support the murder of the doctor. Well, that's certainly a full-throated condemnation!
13. Sara said the following at 6:38 PM on Jun 1:
I am on another internet forum that is around 99% non-Christian, including a lot of people who have had bad experiences with the Christian church. All this murder has done is made pro-lifers look bad. Yes, I believe Tiller was doing horrible wrongs... but it isn't up to any of us whether he should have died or not. Luckily, most Christians have said exactly what Dr Dobson said... Tiller was wrong, but so was the murder, and our prayers are with his loved ones.
14. Amir Larijani said the following at 6:39 PM on Jun 1:
Let's see...
(1) 36 years of legalized abortion.
(2) 55+ million dead babies, killed by abortion
(3) only 8 abortionists--and related personnel--killed.
If pro-lifers are trying to achieve parity with the abortionists, at this rate of killing, it would still take pro-lifers 247.5 million years to kill that many people, assuming abortion in America ceased today.
Actually, given that the pro-life community is extremely diverse--comprised of all shades of Catholics, Protestants, Orthodox Jews, some Muslims, even a few secularists--and yes, even a small group of feminists--that fewer than ten abortionists and related personnel have been killed in a span of 36 years, is demonstrative of outstanding collective restraint.
As for Tiller, I sympathize with him now, because--based on his chosen profession--the Scriptures aren't terribly encouraging about where he probably is right now. I don't wish that fate on anyone, even if he was a paid hitman who killed babies with government protection.
As for the idiot who shot him, all I can say is thank you for unleashing government on the very people whose side you thought you were on.
15. Ted Slater said the following at 8:27 PM on Jun 1:
So, a Muslim man killed a man at a military recruiting station today in Little Rock. Are we condemning all Muslims today too?
A few weeks ago an African-American man killed a white man. Are we condemning all African-Americans today too?
No. We are not.
I find it peculiar that we're so quick to demonize a people group when one member does something very wrong. In this case, it's an opportunity for those who love seeing babies killed to cry foul, to paint all pro-lifers as murderers.
I think that's weak. Yeah, weak.
16. beatrice81 said the following at 9:09 PM on Jun 1:
"An act of vigilantism and violence"? If that's all Dobson can manage, he's effectively praising this act with his faint condemnation.
This was a politically motivated assassination by an anti-abortion terrorist -- an act of domestic terrorism.
17. Ted Slater said the following at 9:11 PM on Jun 1:
Here's your opportunity to play blog moderator:
Would you prefer we publish comments like #16 from Dana McLemore (a 30-something female, not the male athlete that shows up when you google "Dana McLemore"), or would you prefer we keep this type of comment off of Boundless?
Just asking.
Moderator's note: The comment Ted refers to in this post has been deleted.
18. BDB said the following at 9:22 PM on Jun 1:
If you're going to allow comments on a topic like this, I personally prefer to err on the side of publishing comments.
The writer of comment #16 offers no evidence to support any of those assertions. It's reasonable for us to conclude that we shouldn't take such a person seriously.
But, it's OK to let fools submit their foolishness. I'd just prefer that people with strong opinions offer evidence to support their conclusions.
19. farmer Tom said the following at 9:37 PM on Jun 1:
11. J. Tucker,
Going to church does not make one a Christian. All of those who claim the name of Christ, are not Christian. There are many, many people out there who are christian in name only, while in everything they do they prove that they are not Christian's.
A Christian is a follower of Jesus Christ. That means that they live, act and think as Jesus Christ would and did. True Christians should be like Jesus Christ.
Frankly, I am very underwhelmed by the response to Tiller the Killer's death. The man was a serial killer. He was a paid baby killer. By his own admission, he claimed to have done more than 60,000 abortions. That's the entire population of places like Carson City, Nevada or Bismark, North Dakota.
Genesis 9:6:
Seems to me that God looks with great disfavor on someone who sheds the blood of innocent children!!
Look what Jesus said in Luke 17:2:
Tiller the Killer was worthy of death. Why should we feel anything but relief that justice has been done.
Justice:
By God's standard, justice was done to Tiller the Killer, period, end of discussion. The epithet on Tiller the Killer's tombstone should be,
Today and tomorrow, less babies will have their lives snuffed out because this piece of human debris has now gone to his eternal reward.
BTW, you think I'm harsh, I simply stated the Biblical case. God is the ultimate judge. If Tiller the Killer is not worthy of eternal damnation in the lake of fire, God is fully capable of determining his just reward.
Maybe Tiller really was a christian, then you can see him in heaven some day and he can brag that he got there sooner than you did. We're all gonna die folks. That's a guarantee, this discussion is over whether Tiller the Killer got his ticket punched early? And since I believe God is sovereign, I figure he knew that Tiller the Killer was cashing his chips on Sunday morning.
God is a righteous judge, he will judge based on the facts. No empathy, just the truth. Justice will prevail.
20. Rachael said the following at 9:43 PM on Jun 1:
Ted,
Well, I don't use one of those words in my vocabulary and wouldn't allow any future children I may have to use it unless they were referring to a donkey, but I realize different people have different moral standards about that, I guess...
Her comment was completely rude, but I know I can be rude at least in real life, so it might be hypocritical of me to say she was rude in her comment.
21. Christopher from Albuquerque said the following at 9:53 PM on Jun 1:
This vicious, terribly misguided action makes me sick in heart and stomach. How does this murder truly accomplish anything for those who oppose abortion?
Abortion is definitely wrong, and those who have had their eyes spiritually opened to its true horror can see that it is a form of murder. However, those who have not yet had their eyes opened *don't see it.* How can we, who claim to be of Christ, murder people for what they do not yet see spiritually??
For all people who are not Christians-- please don't think that all, or most, or anywhere *close* to most, Christians are in sympathy with the murderer of George Tiller. We are not. I have to seriously wonder if the person who committed this crime even understands the good news of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
22. CQ said the following at 10:04 PM on Jun 1:
I live in Wichita where Dr. Tiller was from. I was shocked to hear of the news yesterday. Our response as Christians and Americans should be as follows:
No man is above the law. We live in a civil, organized society. Some would disagree, but we as Christians must be the first to live within the boundaries provided by the laws we live under.
According to the book of Romans, vengeance belongs to the Lord. I believe Dr. Tiller did terrible things that he has had to answer to God for, but here on earth to maintain civil order, judgment must come through the public legal system, rather than resorting to cowardly acts of murder. Two wrongs do not make a right! I believe the perpetrator should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.
I would recommend to anyone watching the movie "Amazing Grace" about William Wilberforce's 50 year fight to eliminate the slave trade in 18th century Britain. There is a poignant scene about the rule of law, when after many years of trying to pass legislation to outlaw slavery, Wilberforce's friends are growing weary. The anarchy of the French Revolution is buzzing in the news, and his friends begin to suggest violent revolution to accomplish their goals. Wilberforce, as zealous as a fighter against the horrors of slavery as any man, recognized that a greater horror and terror would be anarchy and vehemently squelched all such talk. NO MAN IS ABOVE THE LAW!!!
Please pray for the city of Wichita, I'm sure this will be a long sordid ordeal and pray for Dr. Tiller's family.
23. jen said the following at 10:13 PM on Jun 1:
I'd prefer for comments like 16 to be allowed. Something to be said for free speech.
24. Pak said the following at 11:24 PM on Jun 1:
Why is it that those who tend to provide counterarguments to the many posters of this site will often try to paint the majority of Christians with the same brush as that of the fringe minority (in this case, the accused murderer of Tiller)? Why all the accusations of hypocrisy for the actions of a lone individual? As Christians, are we as a whole, no longer allowed to make mistakes or sin? Which is worse? The person who sets high standards and attempts to meet them but sometimes fails. Or is it the person who sets low standards (or none at all) and meets every one of them?
25. Asta said the following at 1:01 AM on Jun 2:
To 11 (J Tucker):
Over the past few days I've read dozens of accounts from women who went to him: none of them were happy about it and many had absolutely no choice. Some urgently needed chemotherapy, but more were faced with the prospect of giving birth to a child that doctors told them would suffer for less than a year and then die in pain, like this one: http://www.boston.com/news/globe/magazine/articles/2004/01/25/my_late_term_abortion/
or this one:
http://www.balloon-juice.com/?p=21986#comment-1250658
Tiller also offered funerals for grieving parents who regretted the choice they had to make. His clinic was not an abortion drive-thru for women making the decision lightly, it was the last place to turn when parents made the hardest decision of their lives.
Continuing his work after being shot and having his clinic bombed makes him, to me at least, admirable.
26. Mike said the following at 3:45 AM on Jun 2:
Ted Slater (#18) asked:
Would you prefer we publish comments like #16 from Dana McLemore (a 30-something female, not the male athlete that shows up when you google "Dana McLemore"), or would you prefer we keep this type of comment off of Boundless?
I'm reminded of a quote: "Better to be silent and thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt."
Publish away, Ted.
;-)
27. farmer Tom said the following at 5:12 AM on Jun 2:
I agree with BDB:
The level of intellectual acumen demonstrated by comment #16 is hardly a threat to the truth. Facts and rational thought are highly lacking in that comment. It's sometimes more useful to let ones opponents show their mental vapidness, than it is to make long arguments against them. If that's the best they have ...
28. Tiff said the following at 7:01 AM on Jun 2:
Ted, do you really think that people who are pro-choice "love seeing babies killed?"
That's a very narrow, hateful caricature beneath someone of your intelligence.
29. Amir Larijani said the following at 7:22 AM on Jun 2:
JTucker (#11): That he was in "church" is irrelevant. The devil is always in the details. His "church" was in the same "denomination" as that great bastion of truth.
The ELCA ceased being a "Christian" denomination a long time ago. I'd give the Church of Satan more credibility than the ELCA, as at least The Church of Satan lets you know where they stand, whereas the ELCA cross-dresses as "Christian".
30. obewan said the following at 7:26 AM on Jun 2:
#15. Ted Slater had the following to say on Jun 1 at 8:27 PM:
"So, a Muslim man killed a man at a military recruiting station today in Little Rock. Are we condemning all Muslims today too?
A few weeks ago an African-American man killed a white man. Are we condemning all African-Americans today too?
No. We are not."
-----------------------------
Your use of "we" is a little vague for us to answer the question. However, if you are willing to face reality, you will be willing to admit that there will be people on both sides of the issue, and some will condemn and some won't.
I find your comment dismissive, as were your comments on other threads within the past year that warned about potential violence against abortionists.
Yes this murder does not represent the will of the majority of pro-lifers, but we still need to realize and be sympathetic to the damage it has done to the pro-life cause. It only takes one “oh crap” to cancel the 1000 atta-boys of the pro-life cause, and the “perception” of the pro-choice crowd should be expected to be negative.
I am more in line with Dr.Dobsons's response than your own, and no one on this thread has "condemned" pro-lifers as your comment implies...
31. Amir Larijani said the following at 7:32 AM on Jun 2:
Ted: As for publishing the words of stupid people, I say expose them.
(1) It provides occasional entertainment, at their expense.
(2) It gives us a better idea of what many on the opposition really think (assuming what they are doing constitutes "thinking").
32. Connie Githinji said the following at 8:35 AM on Jun 2:
#15 - point being, did it even make the National news that a man who was willing to serve his country in the military was killed just for that reason, by a man with political and religious reasons- much more deserving of a candlelight vigil than a man who was proud of killing the unborn.
I definitely think that prolifers agree that George Tiller's life was just as valuable as was any other person's, born or unborn! I'm sad that anyone thinks it's their role to play executioner. It's not!
33. Motte Brown said the following at 9:20 AM on Jun 2:
Regarding comment #16 (now deleted):
I'm making the call on this. Comment #16 was a violation of our comments policy and never should have been published. It was offensive, vulgar, cynical, disrepectful and unnecessariliy contentious.
34. Tami said the following at 9:36 AM on Jun 2:
Could you put an editorial note in what is currently comment #16, stating it's not the one that is referred to in Ted's post 17?
Reading through the comments this morning -- after the original was deleted -- I was a bit confused, as I didn't think beatrice81's comment was so incendiary as to warrant discussion about the nature of the comments posted here.
Thanks!
35. BDB said the following at 1:57 PM on Jun 2:
Let's see, comment 16 has been deleted now. I'm not going to link to the comments on the Wall Street Journal article on this topic, but since they are largely unmoderated, those comments are much harsher than here.
The original comment #16 was less harsh than what is on the WSJ site. So, I guess I'm saying, I've seen worse.
But Boundless is moderated. The commenter could be invited to revise the comment to be less contentious.
For example, charging that someone is a hypocrite on this subject would be if they were publicly pro-Life, but secretly forced their daughter to get an abortion. It is inappropriate to publish the charge without evidence that is the case.
36. farmer Tom said the following at 5:27 PM on Jun 2:
So many of you have expressed sorrow or sadness at the death of Tiller the Killer.
I can not and do not feel that way. This man was evil incarnate. He was just as heinous as Josef Mengele.
Saw this verse quoted at another blog, and just had to post it here.
The writer of Proverbs, (under the inspiration of God), says in Proverbs 11:10:
I can't say I rejoiced when Tiller the Killer perished, but, I sure don't feel sorrow or sadness about it.
37. Ted Slater said the following at 8:32 PM on Jun 2:
I have to say that something very troubling came to mind for me today. I wonder if I'm more shocked by this man's brutal and immoral murder, or by the 60,000+ babies that this man has personally killed.
Seriously, what is consuming my thoughts *more* at this moment?
38. Ted Slater said the following at 8:33 PM on Jun 2:
obewan (#30), you said, "no one on this thread has 'condemned' pro-lifers as your comment implies."
You may have missed comment #13, which includes this sentence: "All this murder has done is made pro-lifers look bad."
39. BDB said the following at 9:29 PM on Jun 2:
I'm watching the 1943 movie The Ox-Bow Incident which has as its theme people taking the law into their own hands. Clearly, this is not a new problem.
40. Jan said the following at 3:05 AM on Jun 3:
Abortion is a violent act. At the time of Dr. Tiller's death, charges were pending from the Kansas Board of Healing Arts. These charges were for eleven illegal abortions done over a six month period on girls ages ten to eighteen who were each 25 to 29 weeks pregnant. Dr. Tiller's death was sad, as was the violent death of each of the sixty-thousand tiny infants he killed.
41. Amir Larijani said the following at 4:43 AM on Jun 3:
Farmer Tom: I must admit, from the standpoint of this world, my reaction to the news of Tiller's demise was, "Good riddance...he had it coming."
Any man who takes money to kill children for a living--as Tiller did--is among the lowest of human vermin.
That he killed 60,000 children with his own hands is especially heinous, as this puts him among the worst mass murderers in American history.
Still, I don't wish eternal damnation on any human being. I'd rather have seen him suffer on this earth, come to repentance (as other abortionists, such as Bernard Nathanson, have), and shut down his abortion mill.
I'm not happy about his final destination, which is not looking terribly encouraging against the backdrop of Scripture.
Even then, we must consider that the human population of hell will exceed that of heaven. That's pretty sobering.
42. khalil said the following at 5:00 AM on Jun 3:
Ted, in response to #38...
That statement doesn't condemn pro-lifers, all it does is point out that the incident of this guy's murder makes it difficult for the pro-life cause. Extremists and those on the fringe of any movement can easily paint the entire population in a negative light. My perspective is that you've jumped to a conclusion here without a proper basis to do so.
43. obewan said the following at 6:52 AM on Jun 3:
#38. Ted Slater had the following to say on Jun 2 at 8:33 PM:
"obewan (#30), you said, "no one on this thread has 'condemned' pro-lifers as your comment implies."
You may have missed comment #13, which includes this sentence: "All this murder has done is made pro-lifers look bad."
-------------------------------------
I guess I did see that comment, but I took it in the context that she was talking about the opinions of OTHERS at a non-Christian blog she frequents.
I was not being contentious, I was just saying my take is that the pro-lifers are going to be more understanding of this bad situation than the pro-choicers...I hope that dos not come off as "condemning", and that seems to be the spirit of most of the comments...
44. Texas Craig said the following at 8:10 AM on Jun 3:
Newsweek has an interesting commentary in its most recent edition about this issue. I found it to be a reasonable and fair-minded commentary. Of particular import, the writer talks about the logical consistency in the "extremist" view. Namely, if one genuinely believes that abortion is the horrific murder of innocent children, then taking the life of the person committing the crime is morally justified in the same way that many other types of "murders" are morally justified. So, I think Farmer Tom's views are logically consistent.
As for me, as I have stated before, I oppose abortion not because I am convinced it is murder, but because I am not certain of when life begins. Therefore, I think it is better to err on the side of caution. So, I would never justify murdering an abortion doctor, because I do not share the same feeling of "horror" about what he is doing. But, I certainly do not find the extremist view to be logically inconsistent.
45. Jenny said the following at 9:13 AM on Jun 3:
When I heard about Dr. Tiller's death, the first thing that came to mind was Proverb 1:19, "So are the ways of everyone who gains by violence, it takes away the life of its possessors." Though I don't believe what his murderer did was right, I have to admit to a feeling of solemn relief that, in a way, justice has finally come to pass and that no more precious lives will be ended at his hands.
46. obewan said the following at 7:57 AM on Jun 4:
#45. Jenny had the following to say on Jun 3 at 9:13 AM:
"Though I don't believe what his murderer did was right, I have to admit to a feeling of solemn relief that, in a way, justice has finally come to pass and that no more precious lives will be ended at his hands."
-----------------------------------
You may be holding onto false hope. Do you seriously think that a woman seeking an abortion will not just find another source besides him? I don't see how we can conclude that any lives have been "saved" as the bottom line.
Also, by playing judge, trial, and jury, and killing him, if he is not right with the Lord, that is the same as making the decision to send him to Hell. If he had been allowed to live longer, he might have changed and if necessary gotten right with the Lord before he died.
47. farmer Tom said the following at 10:19 AM on Jun 4:
Sorry, a false statement. You assume that God is not capable of discerning whether or not Tiller was in fact "born again" and if he would have made a choice to accept the free gift of Salvation at some point in the future.
Reread what I wrote in #19,
God is sovereign, and because He is also omniscient, He knows completely, with foreknowledge, who will accept His gift of Salvation, and who will reject it. So your false canard will not fly.
If God did not want Tiller the Killer to die, he would have survived the attempt on his life.
48. Victoria said the following at 12:33 PM on Jun 4:
Farmer Tom (#47), you said: "If God did not want Tiller the Killer to die, he would have survived the attempt on his life." That's like saying "If God did not want the aborted babies to die, they would not have been aborted." I wrestle with this myself, but in the end I believe that not everything that happens is God's will, because we live in a fallen world. Obviously God doesn't want babies to be aborted, but He allows it. Just a thought.
49. obewan said the following at 1:22 PM on Jun 4:
#48. Victoria had the following to say on Jun 4 at 12:33 PM:
"Farmer Tom (#47), you said: "If God did not want Tiller the Killer to die, he would have survived the attempt on his life." That's like saying "If God did not want the aborted babies to die, they would not have been aborted." I wrestle with this myself,..."
---------------------------------
I wrestle with it too. I once heard a thinking judge on Christian talk radio that raised the subject of whether aborted babies went to heaven.
One side of the debate says they all go to hell, and the other says they all go to heaven.
She suggested (from the liberal perspective) that the aborted baby would be better off in heaven, than the baby not aborted that grew up to reject God and end up in Hell.
But it does go back to Farmer Tom's position I suppose that their destiny is not in our hands...
50. Texas Craig said the following at 2:05 PM on Jun 4:
I am going to be nitpicky about Farmer Tom's wording. Farmer Tom stated: "If God did not want Tiller the Killer to die, he would have survived the attempt on his life."
I do not agree with the implication of that, but perhaps it is just in the semantics. The way it is worded might imply that God "wanted" Tiller to die. If that assumption is built into every death, then I must disagree.
But, if you are saying that if God had wanted to spare Tiller's life, then He could have intervened and made sure Tiller did not die, then I certainly agree with that.
I just do not agree with the theological underpinnings of any view that assumes that everything that happens is because God wanted it to happen. Rather, we live in a fallen world where people sin, and God allows it. But, "allowing" is not the same as "wanting." I may allow my child to spend his money on a cheap toy that I know is going to break and he will not be happy with his decision later. But, that does not mean I "want" him to spend his money that way. It is just that I have chosen, in my sovereignty as his parent, to give him that freedom. I think God does the same with us.