Cutting to the Marriage Chase by Steve Watters on 06/29/2009 at 4:42 PM

I was intrigued by an article featured on the front page of the Wall Street Journal this morning. Here's how it started:

Desperate to turn around his money-losing singles bar last summer, Yuta Honda decided that marriage would be his only salvation.

Abandoning a marketing plan based on the ephemeral attractions of one-night commitments, Mr. Honda rechristened his place a "konkatsu bar," a place for "marriage hunting."

These days, his Green Bar is packed with marriage-seeking singles in their twenties and thirties -- a rare success story in the Roppongi entertainment district, where businesses are closing right and left in the economic downturn.

Singles bars have always been notorious for opening their doors to people looking for all types of relationship connections, but Mr. Honda found success in narrowing his target audience to those who were specifically seeking marriage.

My sense is that Mr. Honda provided a valuable service to his patrons by allowing them to self select among those who wanted to skip relationship games and cut to the chase of their primary desire--marriage.

What's your impression on this approach? Does it seem too blunt to immediately hold up the possibility of marriage in a gathering of singles or does this filtering approach actually sound appealing to you?

Cutting to the Marriage Chase by Steve Watters on 06/29/2009 at 4:42 PM

I was intrigued by an article featured on the front page of the Wall Street Journal this morning. Here's how it started:

Desperate to turn around his money-losing singles bar last summer, Yuta Honda decided that marriage would be his only salvation.

Abandoning a marketing plan based on the ephemeral attractions of one-night commitments, Mr. Honda rechristened his place a "konkatsu bar," a place for "marriage hunting."

These days, his Green Bar is packed with marriage-seeking singles in their twenties and thirties -- a rare success story in the Roppongi entertainment district, where businesses are closing right and left in the economic downturn.

Singles bars have always been notorious for opening their doors to people looking for all types of relationship connections, but Mr. Honda found success in narrowing his target audience to those who were specifically seeking marriage.

My sense is that Mr. Honda provided a valuable service to his patrons by allowing them to self select among those who wanted to skip relationship games and cut to the chase of their primary desire--marriage.

What's your impression on this approach? Does it seem too blunt to immediately hold up the possibility of marriage in a gathering of singles or does this filtering approach actually sound appealing to you?

Comments

[1. BDB said the following at 5:04 PM on Jun 29:]

1

It's an interesting idea for cross-cultural reasons. Japan is a non-Christian culture that deliberately modernized without Westernizing. Given the huge Japanese influence on video gaming, one might conclude that video games cause a decline in marriage regardless of the culture.

OR we might conclude that the change in the structure of the economy (from agricultural to manufacturing to knowledge-based) has indeed hurt the earning prospects of men who are not academically inclined, which in turn hurts their ability to provide for a family, which becomes the root cause of the decline in marriage.

[2. Tami said the following at 5:08 PM on Jun 29:]

2

I dunno, sounds like a cool idea to me. I don't think it's too blunt, but I *do* wonder what the male/female ratio would look like :)

Though I'd still be careful about who I was meeting. I'm not naive enough to think that calling something a "marriage hunting bar" is, in and of itself, enough to deter scammers... and I've been to enough "Christian singles" events to know that calling something "Christian" doesn't exactly scare off players.

And maybe de-emphasize the alcohol and serve other drinks + appetizers... toning down a "party vibe" and making it more sophisticated would help make it more appealing to people who are social but who are turned off by the typical "party scene."

[3. Lynn said the following at 5:21 PM on Jun 29:]

3

This approach is absolutely appealing to me. At this point in my life, I am interested in marriage -- not an STD ("Something to Do"). So, I don't want to spend my time with men who are not marriage minded. I think it would be great to go into a room of single people knowing that everyone there is looking for marriage.

[4. BDB said the following at 5:44 PM on Jun 29:]

4

But back to your filtering question.

In terms of filtration technique, it reminds me of something else.

I'm sometimes surprised at how non-Christian women can work their marital status into a conversation. It's particularly surprising when what I was talking about had something to do with economic history. Sometimes it takes a moment to figure out how the subject changed.

Nevertheless, I attribute the smoothness to lots of practice in settings like bars - filtering out who they are talking to. For whatever reason, Christian women tend to not do this nearly as smoothly. Not sure why this is, other than Christians may have a lot less experience meeting men in bars.

I find it interesting that those describing the konkatsu intentionality towards marriage in Japan report the same shortage of single men described in many churches.

Though, I also note that Elisabeth Elliot's warning that when women take initiative, it scares men away is also reflected in the article - but it's happening in a non-Christian culture.

I also wonder if anyone confuses konkatsu with karaoke.

You can imagine some women inviting men to "come to this new club," and after a while they ask, "So, when are we singing?"

[5. Leah said the following at 12:00 AM on Jun 30:]

5

I think it sounds good. Sure you might get intentional players in there, but you won't get those who are just looking for something temporary. Everyone who is there will know that they are with like-minded people who are looking for the same thing. I can't really see any problems with it.

[6. brx said the following at 1:32 AM on Jun 30:]

6

I'd check it out just for the novelty, but it's going to depend on the atmosphere and culture of a place to keep me coming back.

In general, I think there's a large population of singles (christian & not) who are ready for real teaching about healthy relationships. I think too many singles group leaders waste their constituents' time with fluffy talk and 'social' activities. Meanwhile, people are longing for the nitty-gritty honest teaching and relating.

It sounds like a 'marriage hunting' bar has the potential to be a very effective simple church expression... relaxed atmosphere where guards are let down and they can be steered toward thinking about the makings of permanent relationships...

Grace, peace & adventure on The Way!

[7. Aaron said the following at 2:40 AM on Jun 30:]

7

I think the idea of going straight for a marriage relationship is great! However, I think this idea of a Japanese guy opening a bar for marriage seeking singles misses a bigger picture that is Japan. I've spent the last 10 months in Japan going to college as an exchange student, and from what I see amongst Japanese and what I hear from stories is that marriage is more something that you do just because that's what you do. Marriage here is more of a lifelong business contract than a relationship of love for many. Also, the rate of singles especially those who are single by choice, is skyrocketing.

However, to be fair I have also seen my fair share of those who truly do love each other too in a relationship. Japan is a country that at first glance seems to be a nation with Christian values, just without Christianity. Bottom line is, we just have to pray and watch I guess.

[8. obewan said the following at 6:37 AM on Jun 30:]

8

And should we expect to meet a Christian at such a place? I suppose it is possible, but I would not go simply because it would open the possibility of being unequally yoked if only in a serious dating relationship. If the people to be met are not an an equal spritual par it would be a total waste of time in my opinion. Stick to meeting Christians at church and Christian singles groups if you want to have a Christian spouse.

[9. Reid said the following at 6:41 AM on Jun 30:]

9

Probably goes without saying, but all the folks who expressed a strong aversion to pick-up lines, when they commented on Lisa's post on a while back, would steer well clear of this idea...

[10. Zach Thompson said the following at 6:47 AM on Jun 30:]

10

I'd go - sounds like a good idea to me! Except I'm not a huge fan of bars and even less sure about courting a girl I met at a bar.

How about churches for marriage-minded singles? -

Ok it was a joke!

[11. Scottie in WI said the following at 7:22 AM on Jun 30:]

11

AWESOME idea! Anyone want to go in with me to start the first one in the state? Really, I do think this is a great idea.

[12. Louise from Chicago said the following at 7:29 AM on Jun 30:]

12

Sounds okay to me.

There is certainly nothing wrong with single people seeking marriage so why not provide an opportunity for them to meet other singles with the same goal?

[13. Dan Gill said the following at 7:59 AM on Jun 30:]

13

A bar doesn't sound to me like an ideal place to meet someone to marry. But I've been out of the dating scene for well over 30 years . . .

[14. Scott said the following at 8:01 AM on Jun 30:]

14

BDB: You make an interesting point actually. In Japan, they love their dating sims* (when I was there there was a huge display for a new dating sim at one of the bigger stories in Akihabara). I could definately see something like that being a huge part of the decline in marraiges.

Secondly, I like the idea, although I can imagine it'd be incredibly daunting, considering the expectations a lot of people expect regarding marraige.

I'd go, considering my desire for marraige, but I'd go with a few friends of mine :3

*dating sims are pretty much what you imagine it to be. A game where you, the handsome and talented guy, date all sorts of women. Also, you could argue that eroge (basically porn games; I know this because kotaku has mentioned it) is basically having the same effects the rampant internet porn does in America. Moral of the story: Sin screws everything up.

[15. Tami said the following at 9:10 AM on Jun 30:]

15

Leah (5) -- perhaps I'm projecting my skepticism onto the situation, but I still think you'll get some guys looking for something temporary.

Some women who go in there (not all) will be desperate for marriage. They will be so desperate that they'll be willing to believe anything a guy says. Unfortunately this type of attitude, especially when coupled with lack of discernment, leaves them vulnerable to the approaches of scammers. And the scammers know this.

[16. Jeni said the following at 10:02 AM on Jun 30:]

16

What a great concept! I'd like to see a Christian Marriage Hunting Bars pop up in my neck of the woods! In a cozy, warm, contemporary atmosphere, there would be a variety of beverages served and some light appetizers. Maybe there would be a place in the "bar" that a couple that had made a connection could look through interesting things to do in the area for fun dates. In this Christian Marriage Hunting Bar I defiintely see karaoke being one of the entertainment options. Watching people karaoke or refuse to karaoke really says a lot about their character! There would be things like poll and darts too. I think it's a phenominal idea. Maybe I need to go and pitch it to an investor. Hmmm.....

[17. T.Smith said the following at 11:32 AM on Jun 30:]

17

Marriage here is more of a lifelong business contract than a relationship of love for many.

I think that the same is true for the United States. Ask anyone about the relationship that they desire and you will find that their ideal relationship appears more as a good business bargain than something sacrificial.

Also, the rate of singles especially those who are single by choice, is skyrocketing.

This is becoming true for the United States too.

[18. Mike Theemling said the following at 11:37 AM on Jun 30:]

18

Zach (#10) said:

"How about churches for marriage-minded singles?"

That exists in this country. It's called the Mormon church. It's not uncommon at all to have an entire service bloc with only singles in it.

Of course, they are largely driven towards marriage by their theology. Still, I think it wouldn't be a bad idea.

[19. BDB said the following at 12:29 PM on Jun 30:]

19

Jeni (#16) wrote:

>>or refuse to karaoke really says a lot about their character! <<

What does refusing say?

It might say, "I'm not drunk enough to look like a fool."

[20. Christopher from Albuquerque said the following at 12:54 PM on Jun 30:]

20

I would love to see more churches which don't emphasize marriage and family to the point of singles feeling like "second-class Christians" (as if there could be such a thing)-- *and* which, to go to the other extreme, don't shush and/or condemn Christian singles for openly expressing a desire to be married.

I have only been a part of one church which actually held the balance well here. This happened, I think, because of the church's primary, passionate focus on the *Gospel* and the unity of *all* believers (single or married) in the Gospel.

Two lesser, secondary concerns were glorifying God in marriage and encouraging single Christians with what they, with discernment, sensed was God's call to them-- marriage or celibacy. No in-betweens, no "gift of singleness" teaching that confused and discouraged single Christians who wanted to be married! At the same time, the few Christians at the church who really, truly seemed to have the gift of celibacy were also encouraged in God's plan for their lives! May the number of such Biblically healthy, balanced churches increase!

[21. brx said the following at 1:22 PM on Jun 30:]

21

Re: obewan [#8];

"If the people to be met are not on an equal spritual par it would be a total waste of time..."

That kind of statement makes me wonder if our agenda for meeting people is often placed ahead of Christ's agenda. I tend to think we should be meeting people because they are people and Jesus loves people. If we only want to meet people that hold some potential for our gain, then is that really loving? Should I want to marry someone like that?

If Christians are only found in certain locations... maybe they aren't getting out enough?

Grace, peace & humble introspection

[22. Jeni said the following at 1:55 PM on Jun 30:]

22

BDB #19

Refusing to karaoke might also say that a person dopesn't like to stretch out of their comfort zone and do something for fun whether or not they are good at it.

No need to be drunk to karaoke. It's all for fun and if it's Jeni-oke, there is no record deal on the line and no Simon in the house! ;-)

[23. obewan said the following at 2:22 PM on Jun 30:]

23

#21. brx said the following at 1:22 PM on Jun 30

Re: obewan [#8];

"If the people to be met are not on an equal spiritual par it would be a total waste of time..."

That kind of statement makes me wonder if our agenda for meeting people is often placed ahead of Christ's agenda. I tend to think we should be meeting people because they are people and Jesus loves people.
-------------------------------
I tend to agree, but my point is that that approach does not square well with the proposed "intentional" marriage seeking atmosphere at that bar. I suppose the problem arises from my use of the words “total waste” though.

The failure of so-called "missionary dating" is that we end up forced to "reject" (as marriage partners) those who are not willing to become Christians, and they often then blame God for the relationship’s failure.

I would say that it would be better to just go to a regular bar if the intent is to witness.

When I used to play in a Church worship band, some of the members also played out for money with other bands. The music was carefully chosen to be non-offensive, and they even played some Christian tunes and gave an invitation to church during their sets. They never played any "wild" clubs. It was mostly restaurant/food bars. We would often go to say hi to the other musicians and have some food and hear the music. They appreciated us reaching out as Christians in that manner.

Maybe there would be no defrauding in meeting someone at a “marriage bar” that is not a Christian, but I for one know that if I met a hot babe that is not a Christian (that liked me too), I would be tempted to lead her on until the guilt told me to break up because she is not a Christian. At that point, it would be too late, the hurt would be done. But, I recognize that as my own weakness and not necessarily that of others I suppose.

[24. BDB said the following at 2:25 PM on Jun 30:]

24

Jeni (#22) wrote:

>>stretch out of their comfort zone and do something for fun <<

So, it's your position that karaoke is fun? Interesting.

Stretching out...that reminds me, there are those who believe that bungee jumping is "fun."

Though it also reminds me of a friend of mine who related a story. He really liked to go shooting. The girl he was thinking of proposing too hated guns. But she was willing to go shooting once. He was impressed that she was willing to try once.

[25. Tami said the following at 5:13 PM on Jun 30:]

25

BTW isn't "konkatsu" something you get in a bento box? ;)

[26. Marie said the following at 1:15 AM on Jul 1:]

26

Mike (#18) said, "Zach (#10) said:

"How about churches for marriage-minded singles?"

That exists in this country. It's called the Mormon church. It's not uncommon at all to have an entire service bloc with only singles in it.

Of course, they are largely driven towards marriage by their theology. Still, I think it wouldn't be a bad idea."

As an ex-Mormon, I know only how true this is. It's actually to the point of being oppressive. A girl, at the age of 12, is already supposed to have her life planned out according to this timeline: grow up and be sexually pure, maybe go to a few years of college to be a better mother, marry a returned Mormon missionary (this is a requirement, by the way, most girls are supposed to have unless there was a valid excuse for the man not to have gone on a mission), and stay at home to raise the kids that should ideally come right after such a marriage (I was born less than a year after my parents' marriage and long before they were financially ready for children, so I suffered through nearly ten years of extreme poverty).

While support for marriage may be nice in a church, pushing it like this can be very hard on people and can result in many disastrous relationships. I have seen several (I still live in Southern Utah), and I'm only 20. Singles' Wards (as the blocs you mention are called) are only prevalent in Utah and highly Mormon populated areas. Most places don't have enough people to have such a service bloc, and the singles feel out of place in regular churches where there is no place for them (which is why the singles wards were created). If you don't get married by a certain age, people question your morality.

There are pluses, but there are major minuses as well.

[1. BDB said the following at 5:04 PM on Jun 29:]

1

It's an interesting idea for cross-cultural reasons. Japan is a non-Christian culture that deliberately modernized without Westernizing. Given the huge Japanese influence on video gaming, one might conclude that video games cause a decline in marriage regardless of the culture.

OR we might conclude that the change in the structure of the economy (from agricultural to manufacturing to knowledge-based) has indeed hurt the earning prospects of men who are not academically inclined, which in turn hurts their ability to provide for a family, which becomes the root cause of the decline in marriage.

[2. Tami said the following at 5:08 PM on Jun 29:]

2

I dunno, sounds like a cool idea to me. I don't think it's too blunt, but I *do* wonder what the male/female ratio would look like :)

Though I'd still be careful about who I was meeting. I'm not naive enough to think that calling something a "marriage hunting bar" is, in and of itself, enough to deter scammers... and I've been to enough "Christian singles" events to know that calling something "Christian" doesn't exactly scare off players.

And maybe de-emphasize the alcohol and serve other drinks + appetizers... toning down a "party vibe" and making it more sophisticated would help make it more appealing to people who are social but who are turned off by the typical "party scene."

[3. Lynn said the following at 5:21 PM on Jun 29:]

3

This approach is absolutely appealing to me. At this point in my life, I am interested in marriage -- not an STD ("Something to Do"). So, I don't want to spend my time with men who are not marriage minded. I think it would be great to go into a room of single people knowing that everyone there is looking for marriage.

[4. BDB said the following at 5:44 PM on Jun 29:]

4

But back to your filtering question.

In terms of filtration technique, it reminds me of something else.

I'm sometimes surprised at how non-Christian women can work their marital status into a conversation. It's particularly surprising when what I was talking about had something to do with economic history. Sometimes it takes a moment to figure out how the subject changed.

Nevertheless, I attribute the smoothness to lots of practice in settings like bars - filtering out who they are talking to. For whatever reason, Christian women tend to not do this nearly as smoothly. Not sure why this is, other than Christians may have a lot less experience meeting men in bars.

I find it interesting that those describing the konkatsu intentionality towards marriage in Japan report the same shortage of single men described in many churches.

Though, I also note that Elisabeth Elliot's warning that when women take initiative, it scares men away is also reflected in the article - but it's happening in a non-Christian culture.

I also wonder if anyone confuses konkatsu with karaoke.

You can imagine some women inviting men to "come to this new club," and after a while they ask, "So, when are we singing?"

[5. Leah said the following at 12:00 AM on Jun 30:]

5

I think it sounds good. Sure you might get intentional players in there, but you won't get those who are just looking for something temporary. Everyone who is there will know that they are with like-minded people who are looking for the same thing. I can't really see any problems with it.

[6. brx said the following at 1:32 AM on Jun 30:]

6

I'd check it out just for the novelty, but it's going to depend on the atmosphere and culture of a place to keep me coming back.

In general, I think there's a large population of singles (christian & not) who are ready for real teaching about healthy relationships. I think too many singles group leaders waste their constituents' time with fluffy talk and 'social' activities. Meanwhile, people are longing for the nitty-gritty honest teaching and relating.

It sounds like a 'marriage hunting' bar has the potential to be a very effective simple church expression... relaxed atmosphere where guards are let down and they can be steered toward thinking about the makings of permanent relationships...

Grace, peace & adventure on The Way!

[7. Aaron said the following at 2:40 AM on Jun 30:]

7

I think the idea of going straight for a marriage relationship is great! However, I think this idea of a Japanese guy opening a bar for marriage seeking singles misses a bigger picture that is Japan. I've spent the last 10 months in Japan going to college as an exchange student, and from what I see amongst Japanese and what I hear from stories is that marriage is more something that you do just because that's what you do. Marriage here is more of a lifelong business contract than a relationship of love for many. Also, the rate of singles especially those who are single by choice, is skyrocketing.

However, to be fair I have also seen my fair share of those who truly do love each other too in a relationship. Japan is a country that at first glance seems to be a nation with Christian values, just without Christianity. Bottom line is, we just have to pray and watch I guess.

[8. obewan said the following at 6:37 AM on Jun 30:]

8

And should we expect to meet a Christian at such a place? I suppose it is possible, but I would not go simply because it would open the possibility of being unequally yoked if only in a serious dating relationship. If the people to be met are not an an equal spritual par it would be a total waste of time in my opinion. Stick to meeting Christians at church and Christian singles groups if you want to have a Christian spouse.

[9. Reid said the following at 6:41 AM on Jun 30:]

9

Probably goes without saying, but all the folks who expressed a strong aversion to pick-up lines, when they commented on Lisa's post on a while back, would steer well clear of this idea...

[10. Zach Thompson said the following at 6:47 AM on Jun 30:]

10

I'd go - sounds like a good idea to me! Except I'm not a huge fan of bars and even less sure about courting a girl I met at a bar.

How about churches for marriage-minded singles? -

Ok it was a joke!

[11. Scottie in WI said the following at 7:22 AM on Jun 30:]

11

AWESOME idea! Anyone want to go in with me to start the first one in the state? Really, I do think this is a great idea.

[12. Louise from Chicago said the following at 7:29 AM on Jun 30:]

12

Sounds okay to me.

There is certainly nothing wrong with single people seeking marriage so why not provide an opportunity for them to meet other singles with the same goal?

[13. Dan Gill said the following at 7:59 AM on Jun 30:]

13

A bar doesn't sound to me like an ideal place to meet someone to marry. But I've been out of the dating scene for well over 30 years . . .

[14. Scott said the following at 8:01 AM on Jun 30:]

14

BDB: You make an interesting point actually. In Japan, they love their dating sims* (when I was there there was a huge display for a new dating sim at one of the bigger stories in Akihabara). I could definately see something like that being a huge part of the decline in marraiges.

Secondly, I like the idea, although I can imagine it'd be incredibly daunting, considering the expectations a lot of people expect regarding marraige.

I'd go, considering my desire for marraige, but I'd go with a few friends of mine :3

*dating sims are pretty much what you imagine it to be. A game where you, the handsome and talented guy, date all sorts of women. Also, you could argue that eroge (basically porn games; I know this because kotaku has mentioned it) is basically having the same effects the rampant internet porn does in America. Moral of the story: Sin screws everything up.

[15. Tami said the following at 9:10 AM on Jun 30:]

15

Leah (5) -- perhaps I'm projecting my skepticism onto the situation, but I still think you'll get some guys looking for something temporary.

Some women who go in there (not all) will be desperate for marriage. They will be so desperate that they'll be willing to believe anything a guy says. Unfortunately this type of attitude, especially when coupled with lack of discernment, leaves them vulnerable to the approaches of scammers. And the scammers know this.

[16. Jeni said the following at 10:02 AM on Jun 30:]

16

What a great concept! I'd like to see a Christian Marriage Hunting Bars pop up in my neck of the woods! In a cozy, warm, contemporary atmosphere, there would be a variety of beverages served and some light appetizers. Maybe there would be a place in the "bar" that a couple that had made a connection could look through interesting things to do in the area for fun dates. In this Christian Marriage Hunting Bar I defiintely see karaoke being one of the entertainment options. Watching people karaoke or refuse to karaoke really says a lot about their character! There would be things like poll and darts too. I think it's a phenominal idea. Maybe I need to go and pitch it to an investor. Hmmm.....

[17. T.Smith said the following at 11:32 AM on Jun 30:]

17

Marriage here is more of a lifelong business contract than a relationship of love for many.

I think that the same is true for the United States. Ask anyone about the relationship that they desire and you will find that their ideal relationship appears more as a good business bargain than something sacrificial.

Also, the rate of singles especially those who are single by choice, is skyrocketing.

This is becoming true for the United States too.

[18. Mike Theemling said the following at 11:37 AM on Jun 30:]

18

Zach (#10) said:

"How about churches for marriage-minded singles?"

That exists in this country. It's called the Mormon church. It's not uncommon at all to have an entire service bloc with only singles in it.

Of course, they are largely driven towards marriage by their theology. Still, I think it wouldn't be a bad idea.

[19. BDB said the following at 12:29 PM on Jun 30:]

19

Jeni (#16) wrote:

>>or refuse to karaoke really says a lot about their character! <<

What does refusing say?

It might say, "I'm not drunk enough to look like a fool."

[20. Christopher from Albuquerque said the following at 12:54 PM on Jun 30:]

20

I would love to see more churches which don't emphasize marriage and family to the point of singles feeling like "second-class Christians" (as if there could be such a thing)-- *and* which, to go to the other extreme, don't shush and/or condemn Christian singles for openly expressing a desire to be married.

I have only been a part of one church which actually held the balance well here. This happened, I think, because of the church's primary, passionate focus on the *Gospel* and the unity of *all* believers (single or married) in the Gospel.

Two lesser, secondary concerns were glorifying God in marriage and encouraging single Christians with what they, with discernment, sensed was God's call to them-- marriage or celibacy. No in-betweens, no "gift of singleness" teaching that confused and discouraged single Christians who wanted to be married! At the same time, the few Christians at the church who really, truly seemed to have the gift of celibacy were also encouraged in God's plan for their lives! May the number of such Biblically healthy, balanced churches increase!

[21. brx said the following at 1:22 PM on Jun 30:]

21

Re: obewan [#8];

"If the people to be met are not on an equal spritual par it would be a total waste of time..."

That kind of statement makes me wonder if our agenda for meeting people is often placed ahead of Christ's agenda. I tend to think we should be meeting people because they are people and Jesus loves people. If we only want to meet people that hold some potential for our gain, then is that really loving? Should I want to marry someone like that?

If Christians are only found in certain locations... maybe they aren't getting out enough?

Grace, peace & humble introspection

[22. Jeni said the following at 1:55 PM on Jun 30:]

22

BDB #19

Refusing to karaoke might also say that a person dopesn't like to stretch out of their comfort zone and do something for fun whether or not they are good at it.

No need to be drunk to karaoke. It's all for fun and if it's Jeni-oke, there is no record deal on the line and no Simon in the house! ;-)

[23. obewan said the following at 2:22 PM on Jun 30:]

23

#21. brx said the following at 1:22 PM on Jun 30

Re: obewan [#8];

"If the people to be met are not on an equal spiritual par it would be a total waste of time..."

That kind of statement makes me wonder if our agenda for meeting people is often placed ahead of Christ's agenda. I tend to think we should be meeting people because they are people and Jesus loves people.
-------------------------------
I tend to agree, but my point is that that approach does not square well with the proposed "intentional" marriage seeking atmosphere at that bar. I suppose the problem arises from my use of the words “total waste” though.

The failure of so-called "missionary dating" is that we end up forced to "reject" (as marriage partners) those who are not willing to become Christians, and they often then blame God for the relationship’s failure.

I would say that it would be better to just go to a regular bar if the intent is to witness.

When I used to play in a Church worship band, some of the members also played out for money with other bands. The music was carefully chosen to be non-offensive, and they even played some Christian tunes and gave an invitation to church during their sets. They never played any "wild" clubs. It was mostly restaurant/food bars. We would often go to say hi to the other musicians and have some food and hear the music. They appreciated us reaching out as Christians in that manner.

Maybe there would be no defrauding in meeting someone at a “marriage bar” that is not a Christian, but I for one know that if I met a hot babe that is not a Christian (that liked me too), I would be tempted to lead her on until the guilt told me to break up because she is not a Christian. At that point, it would be too late, the hurt would be done. But, I recognize that as my own weakness and not necessarily that of others I suppose.

[24. BDB said the following at 2:25 PM on Jun 30:]

24

Jeni (#22) wrote:

>>stretch out of their comfort zone and do something for fun <<

So, it's your position that karaoke is fun? Interesting.

Stretching out...that reminds me, there are those who believe that bungee jumping is "fun."

Though it also reminds me of a friend of mine who related a story. He really liked to go shooting. The girl he was thinking of proposing too hated guns. But she was willing to go shooting once. He was impressed that she was willing to try once.

[25. Tami said the following at 5:13 PM on Jun 30:]

25

BTW isn't "konkatsu" something you get in a bento box? ;)

[26. Marie said the following at 1:15 AM on Jul 1:]

26

Mike (#18) said, "Zach (#10) said:

"How about churches for marriage-minded singles?"

That exists in this country. It's called the Mormon church. It's not uncommon at all to have an entire service bloc with only singles in it.

Of course, they are largely driven towards marriage by their theology. Still, I think it wouldn't be a bad idea."

As an ex-Mormon, I know only how true this is. It's actually to the point of being oppressive. A girl, at the age of 12, is already supposed to have her life planned out according to this timeline: grow up and be sexually pure, maybe go to a few years of college to be a better mother, marry a returned Mormon missionary (this is a requirement, by the way, most girls are supposed to have unless there was a valid excuse for the man not to have gone on a mission), and stay at home to raise the kids that should ideally come right after such a marriage (I was born less than a year after my parents' marriage and long before they were financially ready for children, so I suffered through nearly ten years of extreme poverty).

While support for marriage may be nice in a church, pushing it like this can be very hard on people and can result in many disastrous relationships. I have seen several (I still live in Southern Utah), and I'm only 20. Singles' Wards (as the blocs you mention are called) are only prevalent in Utah and highly Mormon populated areas. Most places don't have enough people to have such a service bloc, and the singles feel out of place in regular churches where there is no place for them (which is why the singles wards were created). If you don't get married by a certain age, people question your morality.

There are pluses, but there are major minuses as well.