A Better Plan for Getting Married
by Candice Watters on 06/30/2009 at 11:44 AM
The disturbing part of the article Steve blogged about is the reason most of the women "doing konkatsu" it gave: they want to quit their jobs.
That approach is all wrong.
Some government officials like the idea because they're worried about falling birthrates. Again, in itself, it's not a great reason for encouraging marriage.
What about the churches? Some are making money on the trend by charging for prayer services. Yes, charging!
The irony (which will surprise few of you savvy Boundless readers) is the overabundance of women in such deliberate settings, and the dearth of marriage-minded men. (But really, given the conditions, can you blame them?)
Apart from Ephesians 5, and a bold commitment to live it out, our human efforts at getting, and staying, married are doomed to end in divorce, or at best, survive in misery.
To the single men and women of Japan, I say, "Start reading Boundless--you'll get a lot more help getting married than you will hanging out at the Green Bar!"
1. Kellie said the following at 12:05 PM on Jun 30:
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Boundless sometimes seems to encourage the same sort of thing (ie. guys need to be able to support a family, moms should stay home, a couple should be willing to welcome children as soon as they are married).
I have probably known a girl or two who really did get married to be able to quit her job (not that they would ever admit that is the reason).
2. Mike Theemling said the following at 12:05 PM on Jun 30:
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After reading the konkatsu blog post and this one, I'd like to comment.
Perhaps the reason why marriage is rarer in Japan (or significantly delayed) is because A) Japan is still largely a male-dominated society (although changing, very few women have broken the glass ceiling) and some Japanese women feel that their careers are going nowhere and B) Related to A, many Japanese women still view the traditional wife role just as stagnant, restrictive, and second class as their jobs.
Remember this is a country where The Pill wasn't approved until recently, but Viagra only took months to approve. It's also a country which looks heavily as home/kids as a "woman's job" so men contribute very little or none to housework.
Finally, there's the economics. A signficant number of Japanese women still live at home rent free. And we all are aware that raising kids isn't cheap (esp in a country where the majority lives in the city and thus living space is premium). Perhaps they have difficulty saying goodbye to all that disposable income.
Combine all of this and it does explain the low marriage and even lower birth rate.
By the way, Watashi wa kekkon shite imasen.
3. Louise from Chicago said the following at 12:28 PM on Jun 30:
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There have always been women who want to get married in order to raise a family instead of working an away-from-home full-time job.
And I agree with comment 1 that this post is somewhat contradictory to other posts on this blog.
4. Adam said the following at 12:33 PM on Jun 30:
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How is it disturbing? Boundless totally promotes the whole women not working outside the home thing. Perhaps it is phrased a bit differently. It may take on the form of "making sure you are financially stable so that the wife is able to stay at home to fulfill her dreams of raising her children."
But on a lighter note... Japan, here I come! Finally a place where the numbers are in my favor! I just hope some of them are Christians...
5. BDB said the following at 12:37 PM on Jun 30:
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The OP wrote:
>>What about the churches? Some are making money on the trend by charging for prayer services. Yes, charging!<<
I believe those are Shinto shrines.
But really, though, I don't think women desiring to quit their jobs is much different than in the U.S. Whether you read Elisabeth Elliot or Boundless, there are women complaining quietly that they wanted to be a homemaker, not a career woman.
It's possible that the actual English words in the article are not a precise translation. My sense from a missionary friend in Japan is that there are also Christian women in Japan who'd rather be married than career-focused. If the article had been written from a Christian perspective, it might have come out that way.
6. obewan said the following at 12:51 PM on Jun 30:
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I find it disturbing too. Any woman that is looking for an "easier" life as a wife might not be a good catch. If they want to "escape" the pressure of a career, that is a major red flag to me. Women who are stay at home moms claim just as much stress in managing family and marriage. I think some women are just looking for a free ride and may have gold digger syndrome. I have always been most attracted to women who are successful and happy in their careers. If they want to quit their “career” job to become a stay at home mom that is one thing, but if they are looking for an "escape" it is something totally different.
7. Lynn said the following at 1:04 PM on Jun 30:
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I agree with the sentiments of the previous posters. Though the phrasing excerpted in Candice's post suggests that the women's only motivation for marriage is to quit their jobs, it's not truly clear that what these women want is much different than what Boundless promotes so vehemently -- full-time wifedom and motherhood.
Moreover, regardless of how much one reads Boundless, it won't help single women (or men) actually get married unless they have the opportunity to meet marriage-minded single men (or women). So, when it comes to the critical step of actually meeting someone and beginning a dialogue about marriage, hanging out in a "marriage bar" could be incredibly helpful in getting started down the marriage path.
8. Lynn said the following at 1:16 PM on Jun 30:
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I found it interesting how the article echoed Boundless ideas -- most notably, the importance of being intentional about marriage in today's society where marriage doesn't "just happen" anymore.
9. Erin said the following at 1:24 PM on Jun 30:
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I'm pretty sure Candice meant that being able to quit your job shouldn't be the "primary" reason to get married, just as sex, or having children should be the primary reason. They can be on the list, just not at the top. :)
10. Jeni said the following at 2:46 PM on Jun 30:
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Lynn #7
Ditto:
"Moreover, regardless of how much one reads Boundless, it won't help single women (or men) actually get married unless they have the opportunity to meet marriage-minded single men (or women). So, when it comes to the critical step of actually meeting someone and beginning a dialogue about marriage, hanging out in a "marriage bar" could be incredibly helpful in getting started down the marriage path."
Thanks for saying it so well!
11. Craig M. said the following at 3:04 PM on Jun 30:
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Candice's post strikes me as schizophrenic. You guys spend all week arguing that women should focus on marriage and family as a permanent calling, and now you have a problem with a Japanese woman who seems to regard it that way? Would it make you feel better if she'd said "God is really calling me to be a wife and mother"? It's the same exact sentiment except not expressed in Christianese.
Oh, and falling birthrates aren't a good enough reason for governments to encourage marriage? Huh? First off, shouldn't you just be glad when governments bother to encourage marriage at all? And second, how is that an insufficient reason from a government perspective? Japan has death-spiral demographics, and a national imperative to get people married and procreating. How is that not sufficient grounds for the government to take an interest?
Also, you seem to be suggesting that only a self-conscious, self-consciously Christian determination to enact Ephesians can result in a healthy and lasting marriage. Do you realize how myopic that sounds? Does it not occur to you that millions of Jews, Muslims, pagans, Hindis, etc. have had lasting and fulfilling marriages, despite being theologically wrong?
This is a lot of criticism of these Japanese when none is due. Ugh.
12. brx said the following at 4:29 PM on Jun 30:
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Candice wrote:
"Apart from Ephesians 5, and a bold commitment to live it out, our human efforts at getting, and staying, married are doomed to end in divorce, or at best, survive in misery."
It's important to realize that many people with servant's hearts do not know Jesus as God's Messiah (yet). It should also be apparent that many who claim to know Christ do not in fact have a servant's heart when it comes to marriage (yet). Craig M. is right - and a bit harsh.
Jesus can help with the issue of gaining a servant's heart, but sometimes the heart is there ahead of the christian religion.
Grace & peace on The Way
13. Candice Watters said the following at 4:58 PM on Jun 30:
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Erin #9, thanks for correctly clarifying my point.
To Craig M. and brx, you're right. I overstated the Eph. 5 bit. I should have quoted my own book about the common grace aspects of marriage.
14. Jo said the following at 5:00 PM on Jun 30:
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I gotta agree with Craig. People have been getting married and staying married and even being happy married for thousands of years, and the percentage of those that have actively worked towards the principles of Ephesians has got to be somewhat less than 100%.
I understand the point you're making Candice (in that passage at least), but I think you've overstated it massively. I know several happy couples who don't have a faith in Christ. It's rather offensive to suggest that non-Christians cannot possibly achieve a happy marriage.
15. Ned said the following at 5:06 PM on Jun 30:
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"(But really, given the conditions, can you blame them?)"
I think I can, but that's semantics. Perhaps I'd say "...given the conditions, is it surprising?"
16. ayako said the following at 5:27 PM on Jun 30:
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I’d like to defend majority of Japanese women who are doing “konkatsu” as a woman from Japan.
There are different reasons for women who are doing “konkatsu” : btw, “Konkatsu” is an abbreviation of “Kekkon” (marriage) + “Katsudo”(activity)
I can earnestly tell you, as a Japanese woman, that purpose of it is not solely to quit jobs!
You need to understand how difficult it is to be a working wife and mother in Japan. (or Working Women, period)
Most Japanese women assume almost 100% of household chores upon marriage, working outside of home or not. It’s just a cultural thing.
Plus, Japanese corporate system doesn’t allow any white collar workers to go home at 6pm – I’d say 90% of them work at least 12 hours a day – many of them work till midnight, leaving a little room for anything else.
Imagine both husbands and wives working that way – how difficult it would be to keep house tidy and get any errands done. Their work ethic is simply this : work first, family second.
This is the reason women tend to think about quitting their jobs when considering marriage; otherwise, you will be just so exhausted and miserable, and you don’t get to be a “wife”. On other note, majority of Japanese women
STILL consider household chores THEIR job, even if they’re working full-time, and they have high standard in doing so – home cooked meal, cozy home, care for their husbands. So many working wives/mothers are severely
overworked. It’s beyond “being pressured about career” – some become depressed simply because their workload is overwhelming, some have actually died from working too hard & long in Japan in the past.
I’d like to say to those who think YURIKO (woman in the article)’s looking for an ‘easy way out’ – she’s not, not really. Most likely she understands marriage means extended family, possible care for in-laws, less freedom, lots of serving at home.
But she still wants it. She’s done enough serving company. She wants to serve her family now at home. That’s what was not described in the article.
I personally applaud those women who are open about wanting to get married and being intentional, even though it’s not rooted in biblical idea of marriage. Otherwise they’ll die out before the revival happens in Japan!
(BTW, it’s a near impossibility to find a Christian spouse in Japan. (less than 1% Christian population despite the effort of missionaries) )
17. Leah said the following at 5:54 PM on Jun 30:
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Kellie (1) (And to Craig M) - when I read comments like yours, I can't help but wonder if the people who write them have actually read much Boundless.
Nowhere has Boundless said you should be welcoming children as soon as you're married. You should be prepared for it, yes, because there is no fail-proof way of avoiding pregnancy. You also shouldn't delay it for years and years because a woman's fertility is only going to drop. But if you're married at 22 I'm sure nobody on Boundless is going to make you feel obliged to be pregnant by 25.
Nowhere have they said women should ONLY be mothers and not have careers. They only say that once you have children you should be prepared to put them ahead of your career. Not to mention, these Japanese women are not looking for marriage so they can have a family (as Craig M suggests). They are looking for marriage so they can quit their jobs. Big difference.
And Kellie, the 'examples' you gave (of a guy being able to support a family or women being stay at home mothers) in no way advocates getting married just to quit your job. There is a big difference between wanting to quit your job, and quitting your job to raise a family!
18. Keb said the following at 6:11 PM on Jun 30:
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"To the single men and women of Japan, I say, "Start reading Boundless--you'll get a lot more help getting married than you will hanging out at the Green Bar!""
*sigh* I've been reading Boundless since I lived in Japan two years ago, and I'm still not anywhere close to being married. There's a lot of good advice here, but it's just advice--not the help I really need. Like, you know, a great big sign over some guy's head saying "Keb's Husband Right Here".
19. Dave said the following at 11:11 PM on Jun 30:
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What about the churches? Some are making money on the trend by charging for prayer services. Yes, charging!
*shrug*
Why not?
Think back to the Old Testament and the offerings that the people were commanded to bring.
OT != NT, but Shintoism != Christianity.
Besides, the "prayer service" includes tea ... which given the circumstances in which it takes place sounds like a place for the marriage-minded to connect. (Think that you'd likely go to the bar that the story originally was speaking of without spending anything ... or having someone spend something on you?)
20. ayako said the following at 11:58 PM on Jun 30:
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Leah #17:
"Not to mention, these Japanese women are not looking for marriage so they can have a family (as Craig M suggests). They are looking for marriage so they can quit their jobs. Big difference."
I don't mean to nitpick, but majority of them do want to start a family (+babies) - they're hitting mid 30s and finally realizing their clock is ticking very loud. And again, that means pretty much "not working much" for women in current Japan. The system and culture (to be working mother/wife) are not really there.
21. Nancy said the following at 6:47 AM on Jul 1:
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Thank you for posting. It's nearly impossible to understand life in another culture unless you're from it -- and I appreciate your insight.
God bless you as you go about being the 1% of Japanese Christ-followers.
22. Nancy said the following at 7:18 AM on Jul 1:
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Oops -- that "thank you" was for Ayako!
23. ayako said the following at 10:22 AM on Jul 1:
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Nancy, (21) thank you for the encouragement! Please pray for salvation of Japanese ppl and for missionaries there:)
24. T.Smith said the following at 10:35 AM on Jul 1:
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Thank you ayako for your experienced assessment. I apologize for my fellow Americans/Christians, who tend to assume that ethnocentrism is a productive way of analyzing other cultures. The truth is that Americans are quite lazy (though, due to their high debt, this will change), and rarely work 12 hour days like you mention.
It makes sense that women and men might want to marry to help divide up the labor, as managing housework plus exhaustive corporate schedules would be overwhelming. I do not think that you will get much respect here, however, as you are witnessing the assumption that the way Americans live, everyone lives. And this apothegm is rarely, if ever, correct.
But thank you for clarifying the situation; that situation seems truly exhausting.
25. xeres said the following at 12:30 PM on Jul 1:
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@ ayako and T. Smith
co-sign!. May I add something. Part of the reason why Americans are seem to be lazy is because the modern American culture rejected the Victorian/Puritan perspective of leisure without letting go of the bottom-line work ethic that has a social Darwinistic twist. As a result, Americans hardly have any sense of moderation at all when it comes to the level of work ethic. We are either complete workoholics at the expense of our relationships as long as it serves ourselves, or medicore employees who just settle to perform the bare minimun. Also, the American work life tends to forget that efficiency isn't the sole criteria to effective work.
Japan doesn't the cultural struggle with work ethic and leisure like American culture because of the Japanese were not influenced with the Victorian/Puritan worldview of work ethic and leisure. Probably the only thing the Japanese and American have in common regarding of work is that many have the tendency to live to work rather than work to live.
I will admit that working 12 hours 6 days a week in a corporate job isn't necessarily the best thing from a health and relational standpoint. I mean, I share more of the French and Filipino view of work ethic and leisure where I work to survive with a job I can see myself doing well and come to like then make time for hanging out with people with leisure.
26. Sarah said the following at 12:31 PM on Jul 1:
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Adam (4) The numbers are in your favor almost everywhere! I know so many eligible women - come to Minnesota! :)
27. Kellie said the following at 6:28 PM on Jul 1:
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#17: I'm not saying that Boundless presents these things as Biblical truth, but they do promote them.
Being a SAHM does usually require one to quit their job. And that may be the reason some women want to be SAHMs. I'm just saying it's hard to tell the difference.
28. a sassy sister said the following at 8:37 AM on Jul 2:
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Kellie, comment#27:
I agree. It is hard to tell the difference. But I also believe that for those who want their husbands to become the primary breadwinner so that you can stay at home, be aware of the demands on your husband in regards to the work/home balance. One cannot complain about the lack of pressence of your spouse in the home if that spouse's workload is due to financially supporting your ability to be a SAHM.