To Kiss or Not to Kiss, That Is Not the (Real) Question
by Candice Watters on 05/06/2009 at 5:54 AM
Dr. Al Mohler is writing and talking about a trend among dating believers to reserve all sexual intimacy -- including kissing -- for marriage. He says,
Over the past thirty years Western civilization has undergone a near total transformation in sexual morality. Sex education programs assume that teenagers (and increasingly pre-teens as well) simply will be involved in sexual activity. Sexual purity, abstinence, and sexual denial are written off as unrealistic, unfair, and repressive.
Even so, the Virgin Lips Movement will come as a shock to some older evangelicals. For older Christians, the expectation was, as the Bible makes clear, for sex to wait until marriage. As for kissing, that was considered to be another matter altogether. To some of these older Christians, the Virgin Lips Movement sounds like overkill and over-reaction.
I used to think this sort of thing was over-the-top. But after reading Suzanne's (excellent) article yesterday on Boundless, I no longer do. She writes,
Our culture is full of "empty words" that tell us that sexual gratification is most important. But Paul warns that choosing anything—whether sexual impurity or greed—over God is idolatry. So our choices regarding "how far is too far" aren't about the behaviors themselves but about our esteem of God and His commands.
These choices are so serious that we can potentially separate ourselves from our spiritual inheritance—not only the prize awaiting us in heaven but the power in Christ we can have now. One friend described it this way: "Getting too physical just dulls you spiritually. Pretty soon stuff that felt wrong doesn't feel wrong anymore."
And as a pastor, Dr. Mohler concurs. He says,
As any minister who works with youth and young adults knows, the "how far is too far question" is a constant. The Virgin Lips Movement represents a determination to stop that train before it leaves the station, so to speak. Consider this: In the space of little more than a single generation, we have seen the breaking down of virtually every social and cultural support for sexual abstinence. ...Now, most young couples face the temptation of romantic contexts in which intimacy -- and this means sexual intimacy -- is a likely outcome. The Virgin Lips Movement represents a serious effort to push back against this expectation and to create boundaries that will protect virtue and honor marriage.
If you're in a relationship and sin is crouching at your door, both articles are welcome sources of encouragement.
1. Dan Gill said the following at 6:54 AM on May 6:
I'm a little torn about this. I applaud the effort to remain chaste, and the definition of what is chaste has varied across times and cultures. However, what I don't want to see started is a new legalism, a new group of Pharisees. We've had way too much of that in the church over the years.
A kiss can be innocent, or it can be part of the progression to sex. For that matter, it can be innocent for one party and not the other.
I suppose that holding oneself to this standard is noble, as long as it is not a source of pride. Asking others to hold to this standard has the look of legalism.
2. BAC said the following at 7:08 AM on May 6:
I thought that Suzanne's article was wonderfully encouraging and thought-provoking.
I also see the value in saving as much physical intimacy as possible for marriage. I don't think the Virgin Lips movement is nuts at all and I applaud those that make that decision.
I still don't think that a chaste kiss is particulary harmful. I have, personally, decided to save (chaste) kissing for the engagement stage; but I have my own reasons for that and it is not a choice that I would attempt to impose on anyone else.
I think that intentionality and (as Suzanne pointed out) the state of your mind and heart are the things that are key. Pushing the line back from kissing is still just drawing another line. In this you would say 'okay so now the line I can go to is hand-holding and hugs' or whatever.
It seems that the point Suzanne was making was that there is too much emphasis the line itself and not enough on 'treating' the reasons why the line seems to be so necessary. I whole-heartedly agree with that.
3. JuliestD said the following at 7:22 AM on May 6:
You know, it's funny. Before I married, I would have said, "no kissing anyone before marriage? Totally unreasonable...prudish...etc.!"
But from this side of matrimony, I think, "what good did it do me and my husband for me to kiss any of those other guys?"
I can't really think of anything in response to my own question!
4. obewan said the following at 7:32 AM on May 6:
I vote for not to kiss. Kissing does nothing in terms of building healthy relationships if marriage is the goal.
My last girlfriend was a passionate kisser. She was 29 and I was 35. A woman had never passionately kissed me before I met her. It became a real problem in our relationship. The more we kissed the more she wanted. It got in the way of our conversations. I would say “I want to get to know you better”, and she would ignore it and go to the make-out session. Finally, she asked me to "set the limits". I said, “OK. No more kissing.” We broke up shortly after that.
I was left feeling used and I always wondered what she would have done if I had set the limits somewhere more radical. I suppose since I am the male, setting the limits falls in the realm of my "leadership" responsibility, but I would have had more respect for her if she had had more respect for herself. Instead, she "experimented" on me.
5. NeedACatchyName said the following at 8:52 AM on May 6:
While it's encouraging to see people following their convictions so closely in dating, one problem that I see developing in Christian dating is that everyone is playing by a different set of rules, and everyone seems to be erroneously assuming that everyone else is playing by their set of rules. As the original article that Dr. Mohler links to states, it used to be assumed that kissing was ok and sex was not. Now we have everything from Christians going further physically before marriage than Christians have traditionally been encouraged to go, to those who are saving their first kiss for their wedding day, and even those who are more conservative than that (I've seen a debate as to whether or not hand-holding or hugging could be crossing the line). Now, I really don't want to discuss where the line is, because you're probably not interested in my opinion regarding that. What I do want to raise is the question of how we reconcile all of these differences of opinion in dating relationships.
I humbly propose the following ideas:
1) It's best that we agree that well-intentioned Christians can and do disagree about physical boundaries in relationships. In other words, don't assume that someone who has a different opinion than you is carnally minded and evil or (on the opposite end), legalistic and overly prudish.
2) As a result, it's important that EARLY in the relationship you sit down and have an honest talk about where the boundaries exist, and agree what will and won't be allowed. Ideally, this should occur at the DTR after two or three dates.
3) So there won't be any confusion, until this conversation occurs, try to have no physical contact at all. And when I say none, I mean none. No hand holding, no hugging, etc. That may seem a tad conservative to some, but it's only two or three dates. You can make it that long. :)
4) Make every attempt to reconcile differences of opinion on physical boundaries, but realize that sometimes the gap is too far to bridge. Sometimes one person is adamantly against premarital kissing, and the other can't imagine marrying someone they haven't kissed before. Or sometimes one person simply doesn't want to date someone who is more liberal/conservative than they are. So I propose that before you enter this talk, you agree that while you will make the best possible effort to reconcile differences, that you will also agree that either person may decide that the relationship isn't worth pursuing as a result of the conversation, and if that's the case, there will be no hard feelings.
Thoughts?
6. Keith said the following at 9:32 AM on May 6:
If kissing is a sexual act, then I must be committing pedophilia when I kiss my two year old neice. And I guess Judas was into some homosexual action when he kissed Jesus...
Kissing is a way of expressing affection. To refuse to kiss is to deny someone the affection they deserve. In fact, I would say it is cruel to not kiss someone you love. Many people, especially many women, need to be kissed for them to feel that they are still loved and wanted. If I didn't kiss my girlfriend, she wouldn't see me as morally pure; she would just feel unloved and unwanted.
The "Virgin Lips Movement" sounds like a manmade human effort way to prevent sexual immorality. It doesn't rely on the Holy Spirit power to keep one pure, but on the fragile effort of human beings.
Also, focusing too much on the wrongs of having sex outside of marriage takes one away from the main problem - The sin in having sex outside of marriage isn't the sex; it is the lack of commitment to a marital covenant. Sex is good; what is bad is when someone gives up a precious part of themselves and doesn't receive the covenant of marriage which they were meant to receive when giving up themselves sexually. It is de-coupling the sex act from the relationship.
If you want avoid sex before marriage, I would suggest it is better to:
1. Cultivate a strong and meaningful relationship with God.
2. Surround yourself with friends who also committed to saving sex for marriage.
3. Maintaining a strong relationship with your parents.
7. Brendan said the following at 9:55 AM on May 6:
My girlfriend and I have stopped kissing. We figured, why try to walk the line? Why not stay away from the line? We're both passionate people and we're pretty sure where our relatonship is going, so we wanted to cut off the problems before they got started.
@Keith, I understand what you're trying to say, but to be honest, I sounded a lot like you before I gave it up. Here's some observations I've had.
1) If your future wife is okay with you kissing your two year old niece in front of her, then it's okay. If your future wife is okay with you kissing another girl like you kiss her, then it's probably not okay.
2) If it takes kissing to make your girl feel loved and wanted, you're missing something. There are a lot of ways to do that.
3) The Bible tells us to flee temptation, to flee youthful passions. And trust me, it takes the help of the Holy Spirit to do what we do.
4) Your statement about sex is good, but it's irrelevant to kissing.
I now have two ex-girlfriends who are married, and it was weird to face the reality that I kissed another man's wife.
Look, I don't force my no kissing agenda on anyone. I believe that it's a personal decision, and only you know what makes you tick, and you need to do everything you can to avoid that situation. If you can stare at your naked girlfriend and do everything but sex and not have a lustful thought, then 1) I wouldn't believe you, but 2) you're probably not sinning. But why would you say that my decision to not kiss is only a fragile effort that isn't relying on God? I don't kiss for the same reason I don't go to strip clubs to witness: Flee temptation!
8. Lola said the following at 10:24 AM on May 6:
"If you're in a relationship and sin is crouching at your door..." Read Matthew 5: 27-30 and do the right thing, get out of the relationship!
To add to Keith's list #6:
4) Completely void becoming emotionally intimate with members of the opposite sex.
5) Don't watch anything on TV that contains nudity, kissing, sex/bedroom scenes or boyfriend/girlfriend relationships
9. Pete said the following at 10:26 AM on May 6:
While we're at it, maybe we should also ask our young ladies to sport the hijab (or perhaps some really baggy clothing and a bonnet). What a great way to show our solidarity with Islam.
10. Melisssa S. said the following at 10:27 AM on May 6:
Keith #6--"If kissing is a sexual act, then I must be committing pedophilia when I kiss my two year old neice. And I guess Judas was into some homosexual action when he kissed Jesus..."
Seriously? You can't tell the difference between the kind of kiss you give a niece and the kind of kiss you could potentially give your girlfriend?
The whole blog post isn't about the one little motion of "kissing" in general. There's a context-- kissing a boyfriend or girlfriend prior to marriage in a way that you only kiss someone that you are physically attracted to or love in a romantic way.
And, of course, simply not kissing isn't necessarily the answer. I don't have a problem with people who do kiss but I can't help but admire people who choose to save even kissing for marriage, if they do so with a humble and joyful attitude.
It's like people who refrain from watching almost all movies and TV shows. They aren't doing it to be holier-than-thou or as a fool-proof way to cut all sin from their lives. But they do it as a way to flee temptation and things that distract them from God. They don't judge those who watch movies and TV but they've chosen a different way.
As long as people have a good attitude about not kissing before marriage, then it really seems like a terrific idea. On the other hand, if you were not kissing with a bad attitude, you'd probably have a bad one if you chose to kiss, too. So in that case, it's probably better not to kiss anyway. I'm just testing out an idea here...What do the rest of you think?
11. Keith said the following at 10:59 AM on May 6:
I don't understand the American model of sexual morality. Look at a country like the Philippines. In the Philippines, most people are still virgins until marriage - And yet kissing, romance, and passion are still celebrated. The problem in America is that you guys don't celebrate romance and courtship enough. You tell people what NOT to do - Don't have sex outside of marriage - But you don't tell people what TO DO.
In the Philippines, romance and marriage are celebrated. Family is put first. That is why sex outside of marriage is frowned upon. Yes people kiss - they make out - but still don't do anything sexual. My girlfriend is Filipina - She is romantic, she loves passion, she loves to kiss - but she would never give up her virginity before her marriage. Maybe you Americans should learn something from the Filipinos.
12. Ted Slater said the following at 11:09 AM on May 6:
Keith (#11), you wrote, "Yes people kiss - they make out - but still don't do anything sexual."
I don't understand how "making out" can be an asexual activity. If a guy doesn't get aroused by "making out" with his girlfriend, something is wrong.
And what need of hers are you providing for by "making out" with your girlfriend? Or are you mostly just satisfying a desire of yours?
Seriously.
13. Julie said the following at 11:09 AM on May 6:
I think along the same lines as #5 NeedACatchyName and #7 Brendan. I would not try to argue someone into the ground over it who was bound and determined to think another way, but my experience with my last boyfriend convinced me how nice it is to respect each other's bodies and purity by not wandering anywhere near "the line". He and I talked about physical boundaries on the second date and agreed we did not want to do anything that would get either of our engines revved up, with veto power if either of our boundaries ever got inadverdently crossed. We did not specifically say No Kissing but I did say Yes, any prolonged kissing gets me going. So in four months of dating we hugged and held hands and sat with knees touching. That was quite enough to know we were physically attracted to each other, and from past regrets and experience, neither of us were at all inclined to "test" how far that attraction went. We were pretty clear on that already - no need :)
Obewan #4, I feel ya. So sorry you had that experience.
14. DannieA said the following at 11:15 AM on May 6:
Not showing any affection gives me reservation.
My parents show tons of affection in their marriage and although they couldn't date without a chaperone, they did manage to steal some kisses in the kitchen...which made for romance and fun...
people that don't show affection before marriage don't seem to show affection (appropriate I might add, not disgusting making out in public) after marriage in public....
yeah I may roll my eyes when I'm with my folks at the beach and my dad and mom "pretend" to be young and share a kiss...I usually am the one smiling and saying "gag me"....but that's also what I want in my marriage...and I think if people become so clinical about what you do and don't do (aside from sexual coming together) I don't know....can't put my finger on it completely.
Balance....good balance is needed.
15. DannieA said the following at 11:21 AM on May 6:
On a side note, Obewan so sorry....I had the same experience with a guy and he wasn't being respectful and just wanted to make out....no....I think romance and ethics need to be interwined, but appropriately and he wasn't appropriate.
16. Keith said the following at 11:47 AM on May 6:
Ted Slater,
I don't want to be seen as an American basher, because I do have tons of American friends, but I do have to say that some of the ideas you come up with in the States are just nuts !! To tell people not to kiss is just crazy....
Ted Slater, I invite you to go on a trip to the Philippines. Or if you can't, meet some Filipinos and learn about thier culture. In thier country, most people (estimated to be 80% or so) are still virgins until marriage. Yet they kiss and make out....
What do they do differently?
1. The church (meaning the Catholic church here) has a huge role in the lives of young people.
2. Young people are committed to thier parents and family, rather than committed to thier friends.
3. Courtship, kissing, and romance are celebrated.
4. On a first date, and possibly dates afterwards, a trusted family come on the date and acts like a chaperone.
5. When you date / marry someone, it is accepted that you are dating and marring that person's whole family. The American idea of dating - and then meeting the family - is a foreign one to them. A man courts a woman with the knowledge that is seeking to marry her entire family.
Family comes first in the Philippines. Sex outside of marriage is rare. And abortion is still illegal (except to save the mother's life).
There is nothing wrong with making out with a girlfriend - It is way (among others) to demonstrate your love for each other.
In the Philippines, kissing and caressing is common, yet most people remain virgins until marriage. In America, you tell people they can't even kiss, and yet your have rampant sexual immorality, even in the church !!!
17. No Name This Time said the following at 12:30 PM on May 6:
I've never kissed anyone, although I did have several long-term boyfriends in high school-- no kissing was just a rule for me. I've met the man that I hope very much will be my husband, and he has kissed several women (although he did give up the habit after high school, just as I quit dating after high school).... but in all honesty it breaks my heart and makes me feel really awkward. Just consider the hurt it can cause down the road-- that's all I would suggest.
18. No Name This Time said the following at 12:34 PM on May 6:
I don't know DannieA--- you are probably right... but uh, I REALLY want to show as much affection as possible with my boyfriend... I'm DYING to, in fact, but I recognize that it needs to be saved until there is a wedding-vow committment. I don't want to get all up on somebody else's man! (since you never know what may happen-- maybe the relationship won't end up in marriage due to some unforseen thing or situation) I just want to make sure I am careful.
19. Jayme said the following at 1:32 PM on May 6:
#5 -- Re: point #2 - the conversation:
I'll admit I've struggled with this one. I'm in my first real dating relationship (5.5 months now) and we never had that conversation. I thought it would happen and that he would initiate it, but he didn't. Kind of bothered me at first.
But now, it doesn't. Maybe he didn't bring it up and I didn't feel any need to is because there is very little physical touching between us. No kissing for sure. He won't even hug me. We started holding hands at 3 months, after he asked for permission to do so.
My major issue with the conversation at the beginning of the relationship is that if you define your line at X, then you can feel that you can go up to that line X right now. So...if you decided that you would kiss before you're married, why not just start kissing now? Why wait months?
NOTE: I still think the conversation at the beginning has lots of value and I do wish we would have had it. But I also want to caution people to say that just because you would hold hands and hug before you're married, doesn't mean you have to (or even get to) hold hands and hug RIGHT NOW. Save something for later. My opinion.
#6 - we all know that there's a difference between kissing a girlfriend and a niece. Just like there's a difference in the way I hold my boyfriend's hand and when I hold my nephew's hand when I help him cross the street. If I were to hug my boyfriend, I'd do it differently (and feel differently about it) than when I hugged my friend, Brad, after the death of his mother. It's not about the act sometimes as much as it is about the feelings and the reason for the act. And I GUARANTEE that I don't feel unloved or unwanted by my boyfriend just because he hasn't hugged or kissed me. In his words, I deserve the best and to be respected and this is how he shows it.
For what it's worth, I haven't kissed a man before (you know what kind of kissing I'm talking about here people - no need to accuse me of never kissing my father or something), but I also don't think it's wrong to kiss before you're married (sorry boundless!). My line, for me, has been at engagement. Not that it's a "give me a ring if you want a kiss" kind of thing, but that I want to keep my kisses for when it matters and they aren't trivial things to give away. A kiss isn't everything, but it's certainly not nothing either.
20. Brittany Garrett said the following at 1:40 PM on May 6:
Wow, such a great response on this topic! My husband and I have been married for a year and when the pastor said "You may kiss the bride" it was our first kiss! It was amazing! I had virgin lips but my husband did not. We really struggled with staying physically pure and the commitment to not kiss was a big deal to us. It helped us not cross boundaries we might have crossed if we moved toward the intimacy of kissing. I do not regret that decision for a second. On our wedding day, we really did give everything to each other for the first time!
21. kb said the following at 2:29 PM on May 6:
This seems like such a great opportunity to show grace to those whose convictions differ from my own...
Paul addresses this problem in Romans 14 (not necessarily kissing, but how to deal with differences of opinion among Christians). Verses 1-3 are particularly helpful. Paul is addressing how believers deal with other believers who choose or don't choose to eat meat sacrificed to idols. He says:
Now accept the one who is wek in faith, but not for the purpose of passing judgment on his opinions. One person has faith that he may eat all things, but he who is weak eats vegetables only. The one who eats is not to regard with contempt the one who does not eat, and the one who does not eat is not to judge the one who eats, for God has accepted Him.
So, since kissing before marriage is not one of those things that is specifically addressed in Scripture, I think we can use this principle here. Don't look down on the person who doesn't kiss, and don't judge the person who kisses. It's kind of the same question of whether or not Christians should drink alcohol (minding the biblical commands not to get drunk, to obey the governing authorities, etc.)
Personally, I think there are great benefits to saving kisses for engagement or marriage, and I hope that people don't look down on me because I believe that way. But, I can also (usually :-S) understand why people would choose to kiss before those times, and I try not to judge those people (not that I always succeed...but I try). I think there's room both ways to show grace to others.
The rest of Romans 14 and Romans 15 are extremely helpful for dealing with situations like this.
22. Catherine said the following at 2:56 PM on May 6:
Keith (#16). You say that "In the Philippines, kissing and caressing is common, yet most people remain virgins until marriage". What you seem to be ignoring, however, is that there is more to purity than just being a virgin. You can be a 'technical virgin', yet not be living an emotionally/physically pure lifestyle. I'm not saying that it's wrong to kiss, but I do think you have to look at it from a point that says "If I do this, am I going to be honoring God?". If you can honestly kiss someone and keep it chaste, then I see no problem with it.
23. Sonya said the following at 3:03 PM on May 6:
In regards to this issue, I think it's important to refer back to scripture. 1 Corinthians 8 says to "Be careful, however, that the exercise of your freedom does not become a stumbling block to the weak." A kiss may not be a sin in and of itself, and you may be convinced that you will not lust or go any further than "just a kiss". However, it is better to forfeit your freedom and right to kiss if it leads you to sin or leads a brother or sister to sin.
24. Kate said the following at 4:53 PM on May 6:
It is a couples own decision to decide to wait to kiss or not before marriage. But I dislike how lately if you are Christian and you are kissing a member of the opposite sex you are sinning. My boyfriend and I did not kiss right away, but when we did it was incredibly sweet not sinful. Do not look for the bad in everything in life. Kissing is a way to express love and affection to another person. If you are in a committed relationship, why would you not what to kiss?
25. ALR1 said the following at 7:14 PM on May 6:
I remember, WAY back in high school, the debate whether to kiss or not. Sadly, there was so much focus on sexual attraction and romantic physical interaction, yet too little about how to build meaningful relationships with family, friends, and in romantic relationships. I think the biggest part of this question lies with how we Christians in the US interact physically with each other in a platonic way. Too few families are physically affectionate. Is it possible this leaves young people starving to be touched? We are so obsessed in our culture with the right and wrong way of interacting physically that we have lost all perspective on healthy relationships. If our other interactions were appropriate, our physical affection would fall in line accordingly.
26. IWishToRemainAnonymous said the following at 8:16 PM on May 6:
I've thought about this one for a long time, and am nearly 30 and still in the Virgin Lips Club. But I don't plan to stay there forever. My boyfriend and I have decided to wait until we are engaged, and we are both comfortable with that. My thoughts on the subject were something along the lines of, I would like to enjoy kissing for kissing's sake at some point in my life and not have my first kiss lead to intercourse within the next few hours, which would be the case in the first-kiss-on-the-altar scenario. That said, I don't want to have kissed half a dozen or more guys...
27. Emily said the following at 8:23 PM on May 6:
Hey,
Just thought I'd say that, I'm 17 and will not be kissing my future boyfriend until he is my husband. I had a boyfriend last year for 3 months and all we did was hug. Yet, miraculously, I still knew he cared for me. What if I had given away my first kiss? I know I would regret it immensely now. Thinking about kissing my husband on my wedding day gives me butterflies, honestly. I just wanted to post this so you all would know that the Christian youth of America is really not as much of a lost cause as so many tend to think. :]
28. Jorden said the following at 10:41 PM on May 6:
I feel for ya obewan(#4). During my first relationship I wasn't very wise and I didn't set very good boundaries for myself. I figured that she's a girl, she would have much higher boundaries than I did. But I was wrong. We ended up making out more than I would like to admit, and our relationship just seemed to go downhill after that because we put too much focus on the sexual tension in our relationship. I finally realized that it had to stop.
I remember asking her one night about slowing down on kissing and she seemed really reluctant about it. I think she came to depend on it way too much and it was the main glue holding our relationship together. After we slowed down on that we lost some of our connection, and I ended up breaking up with her soon after.
I know we both regret it because we both wasted some of our physical purity on someone we won't be marrying. And I personally hope to not kiss another girl until I'm either engaged or married. Because I don't want to waste something like that; no matter how gratifying it is at the time.
29. Kelly said the following at 11:21 PM on May 6:
A couple of you have said things similar to Emily: "What if I had given away my first kiss?"
It's not always a choice.
I've been kissed "by surprise" by three separate men I've 'dated'. They didn't ask for permission, and in two of the cases it wasn't even a romantic scenario! They weren't simple pecks, either. :(
That was my first experience of a kiss.
Probably explains why I have such messed up thinking towards it these days!
30. Melody said the following at 11:48 PM on May 6:
I have to agree with #26's feelings about a first kiss leading to intercourse in the same day (the wedding day). Whatever happened to the slow, sweet progression of loving looks, followed by hand-holding for weeks or months, then the closed-lip kisses on lips and cheeks, along with affectionate hugs over time? Are those more innocent days gone? I've always thought things should progress slowly as you get to know the other person better and better in other ways (mentally, spiritually, emotionally), not all at once, all in one day. Talk about going from 0-60. I'd be freaked out by that and would feel so much pressure on the wedding night, when, in my mind at least, things should go much more slowly, over a few days at the very least. To me, that seems more innocent, sweet and caring, and more like how real love progresses.
I once dated/courted a guy who apparently equated kissing with intercourse, and it was disastrous. I rather innocently desired to be kissed (closed-lips even), nothing more, but he took his "giving in" to a mere kiss as a "might as well do everything" sign, and he wrongly looked down on me for being unchaste, immoral, fast, etc. Even a more passionate kiss being desired should not make someone think "it's on" for everything else. It's not. I can't be the only 30-something who thinks and feels this way, can I?
31. Caleb Woodbridge said the following at 2:45 AM on May 7:
Not kissing at all is an overreaction against our oversexualised culture. An understandable reaction given our cultural circumstances, but an overreaction nonetheless.
I'm getting married in five weeks. My now fiancée and I started kissing after we'd been going out for a couple of months, when it was clear that it was a serious relationship, but several months before we got engaged. Our physical intimacy - hugs, kisses, holding hands, that kind of thing - has grown slowly closer as our relationship has grown closer. We both feel in good conscience as Christians that our level of physical closeness has been appropriate for each stage of our relationship.
Hugs and kisses are a good and natural part of a committed romantic relationship, even prior to marriage or engagement. Some Christians might for reasons of conscience and to avoid temptation choose to refrain altogether, and I respect that.
But I don't think it's healthy to set up "no kissing" as the norm for Christians - to elevate it to anything more than a personal strategy for particular individuals to avoid sin is legalistic, semi-gnostic, and a rejection of our physicality rather than a redemption of it.
32. HME said the following at 3:46 AM on May 7:
My personal reasoning for keeping kissing for marriage is that if I go out with a guy and don't want to do anything which would be considered inappropriate if my husband was sitting there right beside me.
#7's comment about kissing another man's wife I completely agree with. Just because I am currently single does not mean that I cannot and should not honor my future husband. Neither does it mean that I should not honor another woman's husband.
I am not saying that kissing is wrong I am simplying saying that I have choosen to keep it for marriage. It is a personal decision to make with God not a decision to be unified on a blog.
Whether or not we keep kissing for marriage please can we discuss everything with grace. Grace is what we need to unite on, not separate us on personal discernment.
33. Emily said the following at 6:52 AM on May 7:
Hm, I guess I can understand that Kelly. Of course I don't know you personally or those 3 men. So I'm not saying I don't believe you, but there's a fine line between a person (in your case, you) not drawing the line clearly enough, or they were just ignorant jerks and didn't give a rip about your personal boundaries.
IWishToRemainAnonymous (#26), I can understand that. I've heard some people tell me that. But, for me, that's actually what makes it so thrilling. I won't have to wait anymore than 24 hours (probably) to...um, "get it all", haha. I don't mean to sound vulgar, but I really don't know how else to put it! :p
34. Abby said the following at 8:34 AM on May 7:
Melody,
I totally agree.
Why does all touch have to be sexual? I thought the complaint of married women was that the husband only touches her when he wants sex.
If a guy cannot give me a quick peck without getting horny, that sends up red flags.
Dating is a perfect time to practice non-sexual affection. Now I am not advocating doing this with every guy who asks you on a date, but rather the one you are in a defined, purposeful relationship with.
If a kiss is such an intimate and sexual act, why would the first kiss take place in front of hundreds including the parents? For those of you who went this path, was it really awkward having everyone watch your private moment?
35. Elisabeth said the following at 9:32 AM on May 7:
I always thought that I wanted to save my first kiss for the alter. That was before I ever dated and/or was engaged to anyone.
After I met my current husband, we'd been dating for a few months and after we were engaged I decided I didn't want to wait until the alter for my first kiss. My one bridesmaid was shocked to hear me say that esp. since she was suggesting that the pastor announce to everyone that that was going to be our first kiss. How completely embarrassing! ...the first kiss is a special moment and our kiss at the alter was awkward enough without it being our first. I didn't regret not saving mine for my wedding day--there was enough new stuff going on without adding something else.
However, I totally understand your viewpoint if you do decide to save your first kiss for the alter. It just wasn't something that I was convicted was necessary after being in the situation of dating and engagement.
36. Eve said the following at 12:00 PM on May 7:
I agree with kb's post (#21). I waited until I was 21 to have my first kiss. I didn't kiss the first few guys who wanted too, I wanted to be frugal. At the same time, I did not want my first kiss to be at the alter.
However, I feel like the church's emphasis on kissing or not kissing is not entirely helpful. After all, kissing isn't the only think people do that is too far. It's not even necessary, but the church doesn't really talk about setting boundaries other than kissing.
37. Sheelagh said the following at 12:46 PM on May 7:
Question:
Is there information available showing the success rate of marriages where there was no kissing etc. before marriage as compared with the success rate of marriages that did kiss etc. before marriage?
38. Rachel said the following at 7:04 PM on May 7:
I have thought long and hard about this topic for awhile and personally I have decided to save my first kiss until the altar. This is not because I think that kissing is wrong or simply an indulgence in our fleshly desires but because for myself I know that I desire to be completely whole and pure for the man that I will someday marry. For me, I know that I will have a hard time keeping my mind and heart focused primarily on God and not the relationship if I have so many dynamics (spiritual, emotional, physical, etc.) going on at the same time. For others, this really may not be a struggle and you may feel perfectly focused on God while being more physical in your relationship, which is great. For me, I hope that whoever I eventually enter into a serious relationship with realizes that I don't not kiss him because I wish to deprive him; instead, I desire to be able to offer myself wholly to my husband, whether that be him or another man, when the time comes by keeping my mind and heart in a place that is first and foremost desiring to please God.
39. Kelly said the following at 8:23 PM on May 7:
Emily (and others) - maybe I want to pass on a warning. Post-college, if you go on a date with a man who has a secular worldview, he will often EXPECT sex within the first few dates.
From that point of view, an "uninvited" kiss on the first date is something he wouldn't think was even an issue. He assumes that you had a date, of COURSE you are used to kissing and more. I've had men look at me in stunned disbelief that I could be over 25 and a virgin.
(And trust me, discussion of physical boundaries is rarely something you can bring up in the first date!)
So it's an argument for only going on dates with people you know well, but when you belong to a small church where everyone is married off, you end up with dates who are a "friend of a friend and I'm sure he goes to church sometimes!"
40. kimi a. said the following at 8:52 PM on May 7:
Keith, in response to your previous comments, and especially #16, why such the focus on race??? We as Christians are part of the global body of Christ, so shouldn't our actions be consistent no matter where we live or what our ethnicity?
Yes, culture plays a large role and the dating/courting/marriage traditions, but have you read other articles here on Boundless??? It's pretty safe to say that the writers of this webzine are encouraging all of us readers in the same things that you have mentioned: Christ being the centre and foundation of all relationships,
having parents and family involved in your courtship, pure and godly romance being celebrated, having a chaperone or accountability partners/mentors, and accepting the whole family of your spouse upon marriage.
God's words in Philippians 3:8-9 are a resounding encouragement and reminder of what we should be filling our lives with. Saving a kiss until marriage fits well within these boundaries, and I challenge you to keep getting into God's Word and let Him be where your eyes are rather than comparing groups of humans- we'll always get at least something wrong!
41. Em said the following at 8:20 AM on May 8:
Why does it seem that so often when our generation is challenged to a higher standard - even, dare I say, a Biblical standard - that we are quick to fear that it will cause us to become legalistic? There seems to be a greater fear of being labelled 'legalistic' than fear of God and living in obedience to Him. We too quickly excuse our sinful actions (in various contexts)because 'we feel it's alright for us and the Bible doesn't REALLY say we can't do it and we wouldn't want to be seen as legalistic', when in fact it is really just an excuse.
Furthermore, affection can be expressed in many nonphysical ways, with a return to the beauty of romanctic love, not lustfully "satisfying the cravings of the sinful nature".
42. jess said the following at 10:10 AM on May 8:
Hmmm...interesting topic! For me, I know myself: I love pleasure. And as pleasurable as kissing is, I have decided to not have my first kiss until a day or 2 before my wedding day. I am in the Virgin Lips club. Years ago [I'm in my mid twenties]one of my male friends even offered to give me my first kiss when he found out I had never kissed someone. And I declined, why? I told him - 'I don't want to disturb what we have.' And today I am so glad I didn't, I can respect him as a friend [still] and he can respect me. And I don't want to be the girl that this one kissed when, and that one kissed then - no way. When I make my decision to marry, my husband must know that I saved my lips - et al - for him ;-)
PS Re '2 days' - Sorry, don't want to be swallowed on the wedding day!
43. Erica said the following at 10:56 AM on May 8:
I don’t see anything wrong with kissing before you marry. However, you should let you friendship develop over a few months before you move to kissing. Let say you date six months before you kiss and when you started it doesn’t have to happen every time you meet. When you do, set boundary, places and circumstance. Both of you male and female need to be keep each other accountable. If the kissing session is getting too long you need to cut it out for a time to develop on other aspect of your relationship. Whenever, you structure you date in a crowded areas, the park, a restaurants, your boyfriend church or church picnic, balls or banquet. There is less chance for the full blown out make out session everything apart from sex will happen. Do not allow your boyfriend or girlfriend to visit your home when your parents, sisters and brothers are not home. Also, do not spend whole time in dorm with your date while classes are in session. Set some boundary for your relationship to grow. For your relationship to grow it need a lot of persons help, apart from the two of you. You need your family, friends for both of you, as you will need them after marriage. A goodbye kiss by your date in front of your family and friend is less tempting than one when you are alone in you apartment by yourself. You can still kiss without having sex. In our premarital counselling session, the pastor said we can kiss before marriage but don’t have sex.
Handholding can take place take place anywhere and anytime but it doesn’t look good if it goes on everyday and every time. You should find another term apart from Virgin Lips Movement. In school whenever our friend talks to us and we answer them in low voice that they don’t hear. They used to say open up your mouth and talk to me since your mouth cannot be a Virgin.
Boundless, you must realize these single persons who told don’t kiss, hug, hold hands or touch each other will get marry one day. Also, some persons hear the don’t so much that they marry, they still have the don’t in their mind and it can affect the intimacy with their so their relationship. I once heard this lady talking about the problem that some Pentecostal members who she worked with have still problem with sex even after marriage. You have to be sexual attracted to person you will be married to Lola. It is a reality but those feeling have to be control until you are married. I agree with the steps outline by Keith (6) have said.
1. Cultivate a strong and meaningful relationship with God.
2. Surround yourself with friends who also committed to saving sex for marriage.
3. Maintaining a strong relationship with your parents.
These are the steps that will control physical intimacy in your dating relationship and not the amount of pledges you made. These are what that helped me and they can help you too. By our self we cannot do anything. You need whole lot more than saying you are avoiding kiss before marriage not to have sex.
44. t.a.p. said the following at 11:22 AM on May 8:
To be clear, i do not think that it is a sin to kiss before you are married, but it does leave the door wide open. i also want to comment on what i have read on here, and i hear a lot of excuses for why people don't want to wait. Many of you are afraid of the awkwardness of things...but that is the true beauty of it. The innocence, not to be confused with ignorance,on your wedding day actually works in your favor and brings you closer together.
before i met my husband we both had prior relationships and had crossed some questionable lines...and it all began with kissing!!! Those passionate moments, involving kissing, when two people cannot control the physical feelings. If you don't know what i am talking about, good for you. If you do, then you know there is something to waiting until your wedding day. When we met, we both had decided that we wanted our relationship to be pure...so we decided not to kiss until our wedding day and even more so, we did not say "I love you" until our engagement day.
It was the BEST decision we ever made!! Without all that making out we had more time to really get to know each other. Our first year of marriage did not have all of the trials that many marriages do, because we had talked about our first kiss in front of witnesses, money, plans, life, kids, desires, sex, expectations. All before they came up in real life situations.
It is also true that every person you have some kind of physical relations with, whether it be kissing, making out, sex....it all goes with you in the marriage. Why ruin God's perfect union with past actions. I would encourage anyone that finds this unnecessary-stupid-weird, to think why they feel that way. What are they afraid of? There is no pitfalls to going this route, but there are many pitfalls going the other!!! You have nothing to lose and everything to gain, but not going this way you take the chance of losing something you can NEVER get back!! Besides, there is nothing like the license (marriage) to give you all the fun to explore without regret or guilt! :)
God blesses those that are faithful to Him, and if you put your faith and trust in God for this, how much more are you opening the door of many blessings. Not to say that all things will be perfect, we are still two sinners unified as one, but when we put our faith in God for our relationship, that foundation will not buckle.
btw-we are celebrating our 10th anniversary this year, we have three beautiful children, and we are not legalistic in our views. Caution should never be misinterpreted with legalism.
45. Lola said the following at 2:29 PM on May 8:
IWishToRemainAnonymous #26 & Melody #30,
There's no written biblical or legal rule stating that you must have intercourse on your wedding night. You can wait as long as it takes to become comfortable with it.'naked and unashamed'[Genesis 2:25] is not the same as 'you must have sex on your wedding night'.
Mary & Joseph are an example of a married couple who did not have sex on their wedding night. They waited until Jesus was born. Matthew 1:24-25.
Please save your kisses for your husbands if that is what you desire. It is not necessary to begin foreplay before marriage.
46. John A. Anderson said the following at 6:06 PM on May 9:
I am not a Christian, much less a fundmentalist. I just sort of stumbled over this site while surfing.
I'm really astonished that anyone would consider premarital kissing the least bit controversial. I started kissing girls when I was about 12. It seemed harmless and natural to me -- still does many years later.
Oh well, it's interesting to see how other people think and live.
47. Natalie said the following at 7:35 PM on May 9:
As another thirty something I agree with the viewpoint of blogger #30. Where has the progression of courtship gone? I do feel that a Chrisitan couple reserves the right to kiss or not, but definitely they should be led by the Holy Spirit. That is what I did in my last relationship and am still a virgin for God's glory!
Personally, I feel that kissing is something that should be done in a committed relationship with prospects of engagement because it is more closer than just friends, but at the same time to not kiss altogether until the wedding day is kind of pushing it like #30 said "from 0-60 in one day", which would definitely overwhelm me. I would feel as though I'm navigating through unknown territory...lol!
Every moment in relationship is special and I would like to remember my first kiss with my husband at different point in my relationship other than on my wedding day. To me a first kiss is like a milestone marker in a relationship that leads you to a deeper level of commitment.
I think what we should always remember not to make our decision a measure of holiness and look down upon others (or judge others) who don't share that particular point of view.
In closing, I want to say that I respect any couple who has decided to save their first kiss for the wedding day but I also I will not judge any Christian couple who has expressed their love in an innocent kiss before that big day.
Thanks boundless for letting us share different Christian point of views. It helps to hear others points of view.
48. MTV TRUE LIFE said the following at 1:51 PM on May 11:
Anyone in the virgin lips club and approaching their big day?! I am a documentary producer seeking couples where one or both partners have saved their first kiss for the altar. If your wedding day will be taking place in the next several months, and you are interested in participating in our documentary please email at newlywed@mtvn.com
thanks!
49. ~WL~ said the following at 10:11 AM on May 21:
I'm not sure if anyone in the comments has mentioned this yet, but there was another article on this topic posted on Boundless by Scott Croft that is worth your time: "To Kiss or Not to Kiss" ... http://tinyurl.com/tokissornot
I've never thought about kissing the same way after reading it.
I HIGHTLY recommend reading his whole "Biblical Dating" series: http://tinyurl.com/biblical-dating
50. Joy said the following at 7:37 AM on Jun 2:
I am refraining from kissing my fiance until our wedding day. It is such a wonderful experience. God is taking my fiance and I on such a wonderful path. It is totally worth waiting for.
However, we get harrassed for this by Christian people but when we tell Non-believers, they respect us. It is quite interesting to both of us.
My fiance and I pray that our relationship is a testimony to others; for, the world thinks that its crazy and impossible to do. God has different plans for us. We seek to be different and follow His will for our lives. I am so glad He has placed this in our hearts. I wouldn't have it any other way.
God is great!
51. Tami said the following at 9:49 AM on Jun 2:
Joy -- I had a similar experience when I had to give up something because of a ministry I was involved in.
Some Christian friends gave me a hard time, but my non-Christian friends barely gave it another thought.
Sometimes, I think as Christians, we're so loath to give up our own freedoms we've become accustomed to, that we can't picture why someone *would*.