Holy Available: Episode 70

Our featured musical artist this week is Heather Mangum. Her husband Matt and I had some trouble trying to get her permission form faxed. (I'm pretty sure faxes are the moodiest machines ever.) But let me tell ya, it was worth it. I love Heather's music and I'm moved by the passion I hear in her voice.

Sex and Violence in Movies -- 00:00
One of our East Coast listeners called in to ask some follow-up questions to our inbox in episode 63 about men and media discernment. Her Sunday school class listened to the segment (how cool) and the fellas didn't think it was very fair to have two women talking about men's media choices. So we brought the question to the Boundless roundtable to get the male perspective.

Holy Available -- 21:40
Back in February when Gary Thomas was in town for the Focus on Marriage simulcast Steve and Candice were able to snag a half hour with him to talk about his book Holy Available which is available in stores this month. I heard Gary Thomas speak at the marriage simulcast the day after they taped this interview. I hope I never forget something he said. He said that we should view God as our Heavenly Father-in-law. I had been engaged for less than a week at the time and as I've written before I wasn't in the running for the fiancee of the year award. I remember being so ashamed before my (soon to be) Heavenly Father-in-law for how I was treating his son. I'm thankful for the times when God brings that illustration, that eternal perspective, back to mind in the middle of a fight. Like Gary's talk at the marriage simulcast, his interview is also full of humbling and gaze-altering insights.

Pick-up Lines -- 44:06
Between Lisa and Tom there's been a whole heap of talk about pick-up lines on the blog this week. You guys had so much to say about them that we decided to continue the conversation on the podcast. If you listen to the inbox segment you'll figure out pretty quickly that I'm not a fan of pick-up lines. I'm a bit partial to the good ol' "Hi, my name is ______. What's yours?" It's like a little black dress. Never goes out of style. Even though I don't think it's a great way to get to know someone, I do have a favorite pick-up line. Wanna hear it? Okay, here it is: Are you from Tennessee? 'Cause your the only ten I see. Gets me every time.

Comments

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1. BDB said the following at 5:26 PM on May 21:

So, when you approach the girl in the little black dress at church...

2. Tami said the following at 5:42 PM on May 21:

Public Service Announcement from a Gary Thomas fan: Holy Available is the same as The Beautiful Fight, which is a great book.

I think you discussed that book when it originally came out...

Ah, here we go...

I like the new subtitle: "What If Holiness Is about More Than What We Don't Do?"

Anyway, it's a good book. Gonna listen to the podcast :)

3. Rachael said the following at 6:47 PM on May 21:

What a cool word: "gaze-altering"; thanks Ashley!

4. Mike said the following at 6:51 PM on May 21:

Gotta give a "kudos" to Lisa and Ashley for the segment on the pickup lines. You gals did a great job on balancing the concerns of the ladies (don't want to be creeped out) with the concerns of the guys (don't want to get shot down just for making conversation). And, you were cool about realizing that if the guys are making the effort, it can be...discouraging to get the brush-off on a routine basis.

Nice job, ladies.

5. Michelle (of Kansas) said the following at 11:14 PM on May 21:

Yes, the introduction pick-up line is by far my favorite. It's not weird. It's not "cute." It's not inappropriate. And it's perfect to open up a conversation about each other. Then who knows what could happen from there. :)

6. cait said the following at 12:14 AM on May 22:

I'm excited and depressed all at once. Yay another episode of the Boundless Show. but it's episode 70 and I'm still only up to 64.

7. Lisa Anderson said the following at 8:47 AM on May 22:

Guys (U.S. ones, at least), you now have a 3-day weekend to practice your pickup lines! Don't forget to try the holiday-appropriate "I'm grateful for our country, our veterans, and the opportunity to be in your presence right now."

cait (#6): Get crackin'! You're missing some good stuff. :)

8. Jo said the following at 9:38 AM on May 22:

Lisa:
We have a three day weekend in the UK too. :D!

9. Benjamin said the following at 4:15 PM on May 22:

In the first segment, there was a fair bit of discussion related to desensitization, how some people can "handle" profanity or nudity because they are desensitized to it. The panel seemed to basically agree that this was a bad thing, but no one attempted to explain why. On the face of it, being less likely to be offended or less likely to lust would seem like a positive thing, so I was wondering if anyone could explain why they feel that desensitization is a bad thing.

10. BDB said the following at 7:02 PM on May 25:

OK, I have a topic idea for you.

In your pick-up-line segment, you suggest that a man should never make a woman uncomfortable, and if she's uncomfortable, he's doing it wrong.

Carolyn McCulley has an article suggesting that men need to step up to the plate, take initiative, and be willing to disrupt a woman's plans as part of a path towards marriage.

I submit for your consideration that whenever one person takes the initiative to disrupt the status quo, it makes someone else uncomfortable.

In the area of personal relationships, I've heard far more stories than I can count where one person is terribly upset that another person dared to push them in another direction. This includes women angry because their husband thinks it would be better to be a mom than be career focused - and the opposite, women who want to be a mom and their husband insists she bring in a paycheck. In both situations, his disruption of her goals makes her uncomfortable.

In ministry, the same thing happens. Something isn't working and it's having a negative effect on some people. If the responsible leader takes steps to address the situation, those negatively affected may be relieved, but those causing the problem will likely be uncomfortable with their practices being disrupted.

In business, when the authority lines are sometimes clearer, it's common for one executive to try and fix something, only to have other executives resist bitterly - even if the change is the right thing to do. The proposed change is resisted simply because it's a change from where people are comfortable. Sales managers in particular are expected to grow sales - even if that means making the sales people uncomfortable through changes in the compensation plan, cutting their territory, applying pressure, etc.

So, the discussion item is, for women who are not married but would like to be, is it realistic for them to expect that they will probably have to get outside their existing comfort zone?

11. Aurora said the following at 11:15 AM on May 26:

BDB, you make EXCELLENT points. Change makes us uncomfortable, even good, prayed-for change. Several years ago, I began the process of getting to know a man who was interested in me. It was fun, exciting and stressful! The stress came from having to learn to make room for someone in my life who had not been there before. I, like so many of my single sisters, have taken the advice of living life and filling life with good activities to heart. When the gentleman came along, it was a shock to my very full life. And it was uncomfortable. I had lots of plans on my calendar and he presented himself in my life unexpectedly (is there any other way?). I remember having a hard time balancing the commitments I had made with making sure there was time for he and I to spend quality time together to find out what the Lord might be doing with us. We lived several hours apart so as we contemplated a possible life together, I had to consider moving (my life would have been easier to move than his). As it worked out (and as the Lord would have it), we realized that we were not a family God was bringing together and the relationship ended. But I was moved out of my comfort zone during that time. And that season showed me some things about myself that I was so glad to learn. First on the list was that when the Lord brings my husband into my life, I will need to move out of my comfort zone to recieve him. My life will change radically (as will his) but it's a change I'm looking forward to. All the discusison here the last week or so on pick up lines and how men do or don't approach women has been so interesting. I think we all agree that the "creep factor" is something none of us are in favor of. But for those women out there (and I'm one of them!) who are calling on men to step up to the plate, resist the tendancy to be passive and approach us, we need to be willing to be women who will recieve their approach. We can't be women who want to have a man enter our lives without being willing to move toward him when he moves toward us...the comfort zone is a safe place but it may not be the best place to "make marriage happen" (quoting Candice Watters here). When we as women communicate "approach us but don't change my life", we send that mixed message that can be so frustrating and confusing to men. And I can't help but wonder if a frustrated and confused man is a man who finds it very easy to lay back and not approach women in the way the church would like them to.

12. BDB said the following at 12:23 PM on May 26:

Thank you Aurora (#11)!

In looking at alternatives to "pick-up lines," one option that presents itself is discussion on a "subject."

One of my good friends, who did marry someone she met in college, described getting to know him like a game of catch. When she threw him the ball, he caught it and threw it back. The continuing conversation led to their marriage.

Let me illustrate: some time ago someone posted a comment that they were only looking for a man who believed in the "L" in TULIP. Since I didn't grow up in a Reformed tradition, I don't know what that means.

Say I send her an e-mail, and ask how the L in TULIP impacts our responsibility to provide care for the poor as Jesus commanded and James advocated in the New Testament.

If she catches the ball and throws it back, we might find out if our theology has enough overlap to be compatible.

But what if she never throws the ball back?

Inexplicably, a small percentage of otherwise intelligent women seem to believe that it is acceptable to simply ignore a man's question. In a business setting, failure to respond would be considered unprofessional. A personal snub like that shows disrespect. Why would any man want to pursue a woman who demonstrates a pattern of disrespect?

For those who aren't married and wish to be, failing to respond is also counter-productive. Even if they know they disagree with me, I don't know that until they respond and tell me why they think I'm wrong. I might know someone else who DOES hold that belief in common. If she responds and explains her point of view, I can keep my eye out for someone like that, and introduce them.

Example: While I don't feel a call to full-time missions, I know women who do. If I meet a guy their age who also feels a call to full-time missions, you bet I'm going to introduce them.

But, if she never responds, it might simply be necessary to write her off as dysfunctional. If in the future someone asks me, "What's her story?" The response based on experience is, "Oh her? She's dysfunctional."

(I was a little shocked once when one of my "mentors" described a never-married woman at my church this way, but he had personal knowledge of her situation.)