Divorce-Danger from Age Gap?
by Steve Watters on 05/08/2009 at 5:00 PM
I married an older woman--well a day older.
Since Candice and I are so close in age, it's been a challenge for us to know at times how to answer couples who ask about a big age difference in their relationship. Some have wondered if such an age gap makes them more vulnerable to divorce.
That's why I was encouraged to see this topic covered in a round-up of recent marriage research (by the National Healthy Marriage Resource Center). After reviewing what is considered to be the largest and most comprehensive study on this topic, the report offers the following insights:
Some previous research in the United States and in Europe has suggested that a large age difference between a husband and a wife is associated with an increased risk of divorce,
especially when the wife is older than the husband. But this finding is not consistent
across studies. ...
Consequently, the widely-held belief that a large difference in ages between spouses, especially when the wife is older than the husband, is a risk factor for divorce, has
been significantly challenged. Marriage and relationship educators may find it useful to know that regarding marriage, a notable age difference between spouses (or potential spouses) does not necessarily create a cause for concern.
An age difference can seem like a wide gulf for a couple looking back on their relative age during their teen years (for instance a guy who says, "Wow, you were still in the sixth grade when I got my driver's license."). Every year between one and eighteen just seems so majorly significant. That's why you don't see many 12-year-olds dating 18-year-olds. Those gaps can close quite a bit, however, as couples move into their twenties. While your age tends to define you up until twenty, you define your age from twenty forward. You can choose to be either a very mature or immature twenty-year-old.
What's been your experience in considering (or marrying) a spouse who isn't your age?
1. Keith said the following at 5:45 PM on May 8:
Some people mature quickly, so it is natural for them to seek a partner who is much older than them. Usually this happens to more females than males, but it can be the other way around too. When I was 20, and quite mature, I was seeking after women in thier late twenties or early thirties. And they were seeking after me. I was just more compatible with them than with girls my own age.
2. Rachel. S said the following at 6:09 PM on May 8:
My dad is 11 years older than my mom, and they will be celebrating their 26th wedding anniversary this July. So the age gap been working out just fine for them. :)
3. Don said the following at 6:45 PM on May 8:
My roommates and I have often, and only slightly jokingly, talked about how we'll end up with girls that are younger than us. None of us has had much success with any girls our own age.
4. brx said the following at 7:24 PM on May 8:
Whether or not you think large age differences are wierd,
I'd suggest that when considering the pursuit of a Christian sister or brother of significant age difference, it's wise to take extra care in seeking much objective counsel.
In my own experience, some significantly older women wierded me out because at times, they seemed more immature than me!
Grace, peace & adventure!
5. Rachael said the following at 8:04 PM on May 8:
I think one thing may be habits. Maybe older people who have lived alone have had more time to become more established in their ways.
Like ...When my (older) husband are in the car together, and we're often in the car for long periods of time, often, a ton of the time will be spent with him on the phone. I think if he were a lot younger a lot of what he talks about simply wouldn't be existing issues. That could be largely personality, though, as I realize that not all 'older' people talk on the phone all the time.
And then the house and stuff is another thing. This too, is partly or largely personality and habits and not necessarily age. But...I moved into my husband's house, which contains a ton of his stuff, naturally. And he's not someone who freely gets rid of things...so, the amount and type of stuff is one thing, and also decorations...while I've done some things like 'art rotations', covered the pool table with cloths, and have done some cupboard arranging, etc., it's for the most part not a style developed by the two of us. It's not the biggest deal, but, I think younger people may have the advantage to create a mutual style together.
And age gaps bring differences of years of past experiences. I'm my husband's 3rd fiancee but first wife. Perhaps my past has been more sinful than his, but I only had one boyfriend before (and just dated a little beyond that). I know I should not think about his past, but I do. While I think it would be awesome to be each other's first loves, it's not possible. I think it's wonderful if that can happen for people, but at the same time they have their own set of problems to deal with. Also I'd like to caution people about having ideals...even if one person was totally awesome with regard to their relationship ideals (and my life in practice was different from what I think would be ideal for people in courtship), remember that the spouse may not fit into that mold.
anyway I have to go but just some quick thoughts.....
6. Carol said the following at 8:32 PM on May 8:
My dad is ten years older than my mom. It never seemed to bother them any. They've been married almost 30 years now.
I do think having an older father makes me more attracted to older men, but I probably wouldn't date someone who is old enough to BE my father.
Age is just a number. Maturity level is what separates the men from the boys.
7. Ted Slater said the following at 11:08 PM on May 8:
My experience, marrying someone 12 years younger than me, has been just fine. :-)
8. BDB said the following at 11:23 PM on May 8:
My old boss' daughter married a guy 10 years older.
At first, he was VERY unhappy about that.
However, she also wanted to be a mom immediately, and had had some health problems earlier in life. She saw no reason to wait.
The guy had spent 10 years building his career, and could afford a family immediately.
I think they already have 3 kids.
But one thing that they both had in common is both their moms had cancer. That experience caused them both to grow up a lot. It also gave them an incentive to think about life being short. They're doing fine.
9. khalil said the following at 11:55 PM on May 8:
I think the reason we don't see 18 and 12 year olds together much is that it is illegal in most places that value children and women. Other than that I see your point.
10. Stephanie said the following at 9:15 AM on May 9:
Just last Saturday, I had the joy of witnessing my 23-year-old brother marry a 32-year-old woman.
If you saw a picture of them (without knowing their ages), you'd never guess she was that much older. If you spent an evening with them, you may guess she's older, but would most likely be shocked to hear it's by nine years.
When they first started dating, it was, admittedly, a little weird to think my baby brother was dating someone slightly older than me. She and I could talk about high school fads that he knew nothing about!
But as their relationship grew, it became obvious that age wasn't a factor. They were so similar in in ideas, thoughts, life experiences, and maturity. They both fit into each other's family so well, and soon, the age just became a joke.
I know it may not work out for all, but for my brother and his new wife, I suspect she will be my sister-in-law forever!
11. AD said the following at 9:58 AM on May 9:
I'm 25 and have an almost 20 year-old guy interested in me. In some ways he is very mature and I relate to him as a peer. Yet, I hesitate because of the life experience difference. I have a master's degree and have lived on my own and in five different states. He is in his second year of college and just got his first job.
A man being a spiritual leader in a relationship is important to me as well. I don't think time saved equals spiritual maturity, but I think my faith has been tested by my life circumstances and I'm not sure if he's been tried in the same way. I know everyone's journey with God is unique, but I feel cautious.
We've spoken fairly openly about the differences and he has attempted to convince me that eventually they won't matter.
Should I wait for him to "grow up?" Should I tell him there is no possibility so that I'm not wasting his time and emotions? I want to be sensitive to his feelings, which seem to be stronger than mine at this point.
Does anyone have any insights? I know it might be challenging to give definite answers without knowing us, but this has been a continual thought on my mind for awhile and I would welcome other perspectives.
12. obewan said the following at 10:01 AM on May 9:
My dad was 10 years older than my mom and they were married 57 years before he did from cancer. Age was never an issue for them.
I am currently attracted to a woman who is 7 years older than me so I consider myself open to age differences in relationships. Of course there are also a couple of women 10-12 years younger. But the attraction is about eqaual.
13. Saidahwk said the following at 10:11 AM on May 9:
My husband and I are 7 years apart and we married when we were young (okay, when I was young). To be honest, if you're a young lady serious about getting married, it makes sense to marry a man who's a few years older. He's more than likely going to be more prepared for marriage and family than say, a college guy.
And I think most people would agree that while my husband probably has more common sense and "street smarts" than I do, I'm probably more serious and often more mature than he he is. The fact that he's 28 seems to have little to no bearing on his desire to play video games at all hours of the day and night... hahaha
14. Kellie said the following at 12:25 PM on May 9:
My husband is 5 years older than me. Since we met when we were 23 and 28 it was pretty much a non issue. My parents started dating at 14 and 18, which worked out fine, but looking back, my mom thinks my grandma was a little crazy letting her go out with a guy that was so much older.
15. Sue M said the following at 1:59 PM on May 9:
My husband is 14 years older, and we married when I was 20. We've been married 23 years and are happy. We did go through a period of time where I had assert myself as an equal because he saw me as a "kid" for about 5 years. After that things have been fine from my perspective.
16. BDB said the following at 3:57 PM on May 9:
Art needs to be rotated? I have enough trouble remembering to rotate towels!
17. Janelle said the following at 3:57 PM on May 9:
Slightly different question here:
It seems like the idea of men marrying younger women is generally accepted in society, and certainly on this site. But what do most people think of women marrying much younger men? That's not nearly as common (though it does happen certainly-- Stephanie #10's brother is a good example, or Demi Moore and Ashton Kutcher for a different take).
Do these women have a harder time seeing their husband as head of the family if he is so much younger? I have always had a hard time being the older one in a relationship. But maybe I am just seeing them as little brothers because I have my own younger brother?
18. Jo said the following at 4:00 PM on May 9:
Sue M,
"he saw me as a "kid" for about 5 years"
Yeah, one thing I've noticed is that the guys I know who are dating younger women can be quite patronising in the way they talk about them. I'm sure this isn't true across the board but I'm a little wary of it myself. :/
19. Karen said the following at 4:13 PM on May 9:
Seems like most of my girl friends, including myself, have ended up marrying guys younger than us...some of my friends by 4, 5, or 6 years. When you reach your mid-twenties, maturity and not age seems to be more the issue. All of our marriages are doing just fine. :^)
20. Karen said the following at 4:15 PM on May 9:
To AD: One of my friends was in a very similar position...the guy who was interested in her was 19 when she was 25. After she realized that the only thing that kept her from perceiving him as eligible was the age gap, she gave him a chance and discovered he was everything she wanted in a husband, and they are now happily married. Naturally this wouldn't apply for everyone, but it doesn't hurt to look at the guy objectively apart from the fact that he's younger than you.
21. BDB said the following at 5:38 PM on May 9:
It's too bad the data appears to be incomplete. There's some interesting questions that relate to the topic:
1) Is there a difference in divorce rates for those where the age gap was the first marriage for both vs. a 2nd marriage for one or both?
I'm thinking specifically about broken engagements here. People who pull themselves "out of the market" for a few years as a result of some kind of break-up. It seems possible that people who spend some time thinking it through might look for different characteristics later on.
If man is swapping out his old wife for a younger woman, it would seem like that behavior would increase likelihood for divorce. But in this case, it's not the age difference per se, it's the guys inability to keep his vows.
The suggestion that men who delay marriage are entirely at fault must sting the most for those men with broken engagements not of their choosing. Someone who experiences a broken engagement my choose to be much more careful later on. Perhaps in their caution they avoid the pitfalls common to those who act rashly on emotional impulse. Either way, age differences due to remarriage seem likely to involve a very different dynamic than age differences due to other factors.
2) The other research on how job loss by men causes divorce is also interesting.
This lends credence to those who are delaying marriage to become more established and secure in their careers. If men are in an insecure situation, their risk of divorce appears to be much higher.
Interesting studies.
22. Louise from Chicago said the following at 7:37 PM on May 9:
I don't think the age of the spouses would have a significant effect on the chance that the marriage would ultimately end in divorce.
Interesting concept though...definitely worth contemplating.
23. Laura C. said the following at 9:06 PM on May 9:
It really seems over-dramatized. Since my teens, I've been more attracted to older, more mature guys... no surprise I ended up eventually marrying a man 10 years older than I am. (we were 24 and 34 when we met and started dating) The age difference has a comical side (I was in 3rd grade when he graduated from high school) and like all people who were teens in the 80's he thinks it is the BEST decade. But seriously, post high school and college, larger age differences matter none at all. It's all about the respective maturity levels. He was also much more ready emotionally, educationally and financially to have kids in his mid-30's as opposed to his mid-20's, which we immediately did (daughter #1 arrived 9 mos., 5 days post wedding)! We're really glad we found each other, age difference and all.
24. BDB said the following at 11:23 PM on May 9:
Wow - I'm still pondering the "patronizing" comments. Why bother to get involved with someone 10 years younger if you're going to make fun of them?
At one time the ages of my staff ranged from 19 to 56, with me right in the middle. I was very careful to not assume I knew everything. There were specific skills I had where I was better than anyone on my staff. I taught them those things. But goodness, I stayed out of their way in areas where they knew more than I did. I was able to learn from them, too.
Younger people often have MUCH more enthusiasm and a positive attitude when tackling a challenging situation. They aren't jaded and bitter yet. Why discourage that?
25. vjd said the following at 2:42 AM on May 10:
I'm just barely this side of 30, have been working professionally since I was 16, and have almost as much formal education as I ever want to have (5-6 classes left). I am currently very attracted to a 26 year old teacher who just completed his Master's degree. He's 3 months older than my younger brother. At first, that kind of freaked me out, but now I don't even think about it unless someone or something brings it to my remembrance.
I remember teasing my cousins and friends as they married slightly younger men, and one of my cousins told me that I'd probably end up with a younger man and I laughed. That was 10 years ago.
Now, it seems so pointless to discriminate on physical age when it is really maturity that counts.
26. lewsta said the following at 10:42 AM on May 10:
True enough, its not the number of trips round the sun that matters, it is maturity. I had tried many times to marry, both before my conversion and afterward. I was so steeped in the ways and values of the world it took many years for me to gain wisdom and understanding of GOD"S values and ways. Had I married any of the "possibilities" I waited for, in some cases for years, with perhaps one or two exceptions, I've no doubt that marriage would have ended in disaster. Make a list of all the wrong reasons and motivations to marry, and that was my "list" of preferred qualities in a potential spouse. I see all those (painfully) failed attempts as God's mercy.
Problem is, having let so much time go past attempting to build on wrong foundations, even "in the Lord", it now seems I have got so old no one still young enough to desire children (note: I did NOT say "bear" children) will consider the possibilities. And it is the "age difference" issue that jumps up very early on and puts a halt to any recent possibilities. I WISH more would truly consider the "age difference issue" as relatively insignificant and look to the stability and experience an older spouse would bring to the relationship. But then, I take comfort in knowing WHO is sovereign, and also the fact I only need one...... although at times it gets VERY frustrating.
27. Leah said the following at 6:38 PM on May 10:
- Keep in mind that it's really no big surprise that younger women and older men are a common arrangement- because women tend to mature faster than guys. So a 21 year old woman could be at the same point maturity-wise as a 27 year old guy.
- My mum is older than my dad... by 22 days :P
- My grandmother was 16 years younger than my grandfather. My dad was born when Nanna was 24 and Poppy was 40. She was his second wife.
- I know a couple who got married last year... she was just turned 20 and he was just turned 27.
- I can only think of two couples off the top of my head where the wife is older... my aunty is 3 or 4 years older than her husband, and there's a couple at our church where the wife is in her early 40s (43 maybe?) and her husband has only just turned 40. Really no big deal :) (Except she refused to start dating him until he turned twenty so she couldn't be teased for dating a teenager ;) hehe).
28. O from Canada said the following at 7:43 PM on May 10:
#13 Saidahwk at what age did you and your husband start seeing each other. I suppose I am having a similar problem in dismissing younger but mature girls as having relationship potential. My reasoning has nothing to do with fear of divorce though as I had never heard anything of higher divorce rates based on age difference.
Of course one still has to examine all aspects of the relationship, but I suppose I can be more gracious to younger girls. For me being in my early 20's though I have the "problem" of some of these girls being high school seniors, and I'm not going to date someone in high school, but I find myself also dismissing all future potential with them.
29. Allison said the following at 6:54 AM on May 11:
I am 6 years younger than my husband. When we met, I was 16 and he was 22. Odd, I know. I am not recommending such an age gap at a young age to everyone, but for us, God must have had his hand in it. We dated for 2 years, were engaged when I was 18 and he was 24, and married when I was 19 and he was almost 25.
We have been married for nearly 2 years now. I wouldn't say that our relationship has been perfect for 100% of our journey (whose relationshi is?), but I am fond of saying that next to my decision to follow Christ, marrying Craig was the best decision I ever made in my life.
We don't really notice our age difference now. 21 and (almost) 27 doesn't really seem like a big gap like it did at 16 and 22. One of the few times I do notice though, is when I compare my life, married 2 years, out of college, with a 3 month-old son to the lives of those my own age. My life became more like those of his peers than my own.
30. David said the following at 7:29 AM on May 11:
I have on two separate occasions backed off of relationships because I could not get past the age differences. (Both times it was a younger woman; 8 and 9 years difference respectively) It was a mental barrier that I just could not overcome. The thought that this person was still in elementary school when I graduated high school just seemed too strange. (I am 29 years old)
Right or wrong, I did not pursue the relationships even though there was a mutual attraction. I may regret it one day but I just could not get past the "weirdness" factor. Any tips on how to move past this?
31. Loris said the following at 7:33 AM on May 11:
I'm roughly two years older than my husband. I got a lot of teasing in college for being a senior robbing the freshman cradle. :)
One point nobody has brought up in favor of marrying younger men: I will most likely outlive my husband by at least a decade if the life spans of women in my family are any indication. Why should I want to be widowed sooner than I have to be?
32. Louise from Chicago said the following at 8:12 AM on May 11:
Comment 30, as you get older this issue won't be as bothersome.
Trust me, I've been there!
33. Elisabeth K said the following at 8:27 AM on May 11:
I think that my case is an extreme one with age differences...There is 28 years difference between my husband's age and my age. Now that does make for a lot of weirdness factors about things that he's seen and lived through and I've just read about...however, no other guys even close to my age ever approached me. I am way more mature than most people my age (my mom has always said that I was born old) and my husband took a long time to mature. This is his third marriage (both of his previous wives left him for someone or something else) and he's always said I was exactly what he'd been looking for and praying for. I am able to look up to him and respect him and he's never treated me as a kid but always like an equal. We've been married almost two years and I think its been the best two years of my life. We compliment each other in so many ways and make a great team. We praise the Lord for bringing us together with the perfect timing for both of us. It has been hard in some ways to get past the fact that it is most likely that he will pass away before me (for both of us), but I also think that it has been a good thing. We're both more focused on enjoying the time we have and I've learned to give that fear back to the Lord (over and over again!) and deal with it now instead of later like some people have to. Like we discussed many times it could happen to anyone at any time and it makes no difference as to the age!
34. Susan said the following at 9:04 AM on May 11:
#5 Rachel - Thanks for sharing some honest insights!
I am dating a guy that's three months younger than me. But because he's divorced and has two children, in many ways he seems older than me. I think age is like so many things in a relationship: You have to gauge if the differences are enough to cause a problem and if not, savor them for the richness they add to the relationship.
35. Christine said the following at 9:25 AM on May 11:
I've dated older and younger men (6-8 years older and 6 years younger). Currently, I'm dating someone 7 years older than me and it seems to be the best fit thus far. I personally struggled with dating a much younger man. It bothered me to feel older, to have had so much more life experience (I was 26 and he was 20) and to talk about the fact that I was in college when he was in junior high. Somehow, I don't feel the age difference as much when the man is older than me.
36. Louise from Chicago said the following at 9:30 AM on May 11:
My sophomore year of college I was nineteen, my roommate was eighteen and her boyfriend was twenty-two, the same age as my older brother.
I used to marvel sometimes about these two young men, two months apart in age, one treating me as an equal adult, and the other like an ignorant little kid!
37. Carrie (the original) said the following at 9:38 AM on May 11:
imho . . .
Age definitely matters. If you're over 30, still can't hold a job, living with your parents then there should be red flags up left and right.
However, if they are older and demonstrate certain fruits of maturity, then age should not be a deterant.
In my experience, the age factor makes him a little bit more focused on what the end goal of a relationship should be. Everything is very clear and defined.
38. Ronnica said the following at 9:50 AM on May 11:
Personally, I've had the rule-of-thumb that he can't be closer to my parents in age than he is in me (which means he could be as much as 11 years older than me). As far as younger, that'd definitely have to be a case-by-case basis. Maturity has a lot to do with it!
39. Amir Larijani said the following at 11:37 AM on May 11:
I'm in the process of pursuing a gal who is 14 years my junior. The dynamics of how it materialized would be a topic all its own. But here is where I'd say the challenges have been:
(1) As the older person, my life experience has given me a certain degree of realism--well, ok, cynicism--regarding certain matters.
Tuning that cynicism out has been perhaps my greatest challenge. If I wanted to shoot her down, there were plenty of opportunities where I could have done so, but--out of what was an unmistakable prodding from God--consciously chose not to.
My decision to ignore my cynical streak--while seeking prudence--has been rewarded.
(2) In the past, I would have been more inclined to treat someone that much younger than myself like an equal. In fact, in the not so distant past, a potential relationship with someone--the same age as the gal I'm pursuing now--never got to the launch pad because I was a substantial jerk in that department.
Similarly, if she wished to be cynical or dismissive, she would have had multiple opportunities to do so.
I'd say this probably has a good chance, but I'm keeping details close to the vest.
40. Erin said the following at 12:10 PM on May 11:
I agree that maturity-wise, an age gap may not make much of a difference. But I'd still have reservations about marrying someone significantly older than me given that women tend to live longer, anyway, and if I were to marry a man 10+ years older than I am, it's quite possible I'd spend a significant number of years as a widow. Maybe it's strange that I think about that while I'm still young, but I know from having spent years single now that I'd prefer not to be one of those women who outlives her husband by 15 or 20 years.
41. obewan said the following at 12:31 PM on May 11:
#40"...if I were to marry a man 10+ years older than I am, it's quite possible I'd spend a significant number of years as a widow."
-----------------------------------
There is actually no way to predict the future regardless of ages. One woman in our singles group my age (40’s) is a widow already because she lost her same age husband to cancer. There are two other widows in their 50's in the same position.
My mother was married to my Dad for 57 years with a 10-year age difference before cancer took him home. Within a year she remarried. This time a widower at church who was a family friend going back at least 40 years. You never know what will happen. It is very possible to remarry even in old age. It happens all the time!
42. Amir Larijani said the following at 12:34 PM on May 11:
Erin:
:::inserting tongue in cheek:::
If he's really bad, make sure you cook him lots of high-fat/high cholesterol meals. And make sure you take out a really good life insurance policy on him. LOL
:::removing tongue in cheek:::
Seriously, there are so many variables that you cannot control with respect to when you die, as he may outlive you.
A friend of mine married a man ten years her senior. She had a four-year age advantage on me. She was always healthy, ate sensibly, exercised, grew her own veggies, etc.
She died of breast cancer almost three years ago. She left behind a husband and three kids.
Last year, he remarried. he met someone on an online dating service, flew to her hometown, and asked her parents for permission to marry her. Within a couple months, they were married.
43. Trisha said the following at 12:37 PM on May 11:
I'm in my late 30s and never dated (no guy has ever been interested in me in that way (and that is ok with me) because I'm what the world calls a 'plain Jane' but to a Christian man outside looks shouldn't be as important as the inside and vice versa) but if I did I wouldn't want him to be younger then me (unless they were born the same year) and no more then 5 years older then me. If a person is way younger or way older there is the generational gap of the era you were raised in!
44. BDB said the following at 12:41 PM on May 11:
Erin (#40) wrote:
>>Maybe it's strange that I think about that while I'm still young, but I know from having spent years single now that I'd prefer not to be one of those women who outlives her husband by 15 or 20 years.<<
Nope. Not strange. When my boss' daughter first got involved with a guy 10 years older, that was precisely what he used to try and warn her.
Of course, with cancer in both families, I think that issue became moot. Cancer can cut short life much faster than the actuarial tables.
Of course, my grandparents at 93 are still driving and arguing politics, so I have a built-in genetic response... :D
45. Trisha in AR said the following at 1:07 PM on May 11:
#40 Erin - I consider the same thing when it comes to being a widow.
In addition, I'm 37 and have 2 children from a previous marriage, but I still have the hopes that God will bring someone into my life that also has a desire for more children. And while I'm not exactly the prime age for child bearing, I would like to be able to share the incredible years of parenting and enjoying grandchildren.
46. Irene M. said the following at 3:30 PM on May 11:
Speaking very personally, I do not date people who are significantly older or younger than me. Part of that is my age. At my age, you can't legally date someone who is five years younger than you. But a lot of it comes from having really young parents (17, 20 years age difference from me) and even younger step-parents (14, 16 years difference). If I date someone who's ten years older than me, I am literally in my parent's dating pool. I love and respect my parents, but I certainly don't want to marry one of their childhood buddies or date an old highschool sweetheart.
Now that's a negative side effect of early marriage that you don't often hear about.
47. BDB said the following at 5:40 PM on May 11:
Irene M. (#46) wrote:
>>Now that's a negative side effect of early marriage that you don't often hear about.<<
Not often. I do know one woman who was a grandmother at 31. Daughter kind of followed in her footsteps. Grandma was younger than me, too. It would be "interesting" to go from no kids to becoming an immediate step grandparent.
48. Jessi said the following at 6:24 PM on May 11:
I'm 15 years younger than my husband.
The age difference is pretty much a non-issue for us.
I never expected to marry someone so much older, but really, I've never related well to people my own age. And the two of us clicked so well, we never thought about age. He's always treated me as an equal. Really, the only place the age gap is obvious is in what music and TV shows we like. :-)
There was a period right before we married that I did start to worry a lot about the future, and the possiblity of spending a long time as a widow. But we talked about it and worked through it. I decided not to miss out on what we have now out of fears of what might happen later. We've been married for a year now, and I wouldn't have missed that year for anything. :-)
49. Louise from Chicago said the following at 8:21 PM on May 11:
Comment 46, I have dated men that are closer in age than my mother than to me.
She is almost a full twenty-eight years older than I am.
I am in my forties ...I definitely wouldn't have been comfortable with such large age differences twenty years ago..as you get older age differences are less and less significant for both romantic and non-romantic social contacts.
But...the chance that you would be dating someone who had actually been a "peer" of one of your parents or step-parents is a little far-fetched I think.
50. NataliaG said the following at 1:59 PM on May 12:
this is very interesting subject - I mean the age difference when the woman is older by some 9 years, let's say she is 35, he is 26. The question is to the guys - would you be attracted to a woman like that, really? Or would you simply be interested in her friendship and support, while seeking a younger woman to marry?
51. Keith said the following at 5:42 PM on May 12:
Natalia (#50), yes men can be attracted to a much younger woman. I think society has taught us that younger means more beautiful - and that simply isn't always true.
It is all about the maturity level. If you are mature for your age, you are gonna be attracted to someone older. If you are immature, you will be attracted to someone younger. Generally men mature a bit slower than women, but not always. Some very mature men would therefore be easily attracted to an older woman.
52. Ted Slater said the following at 9:41 PM on May 12:
Keith (#51) -- the editor of Boundless is 12 years older than his wife.
Yes, I agree that maturity level has a lot to do with it. Your saying that "If you are immature, you will be attracted to someone younger" is a bit harsh, but there's some truth to it. It's tough for me to admit that I've been immature for my age, but there's probably a lot of truth to that statement.
53. BDB said the following at 10:03 PM on May 12:
On Sunday, a woman 14 years younger than me expressed concern that the young-adults small group wasn't providing any spiritual growth, and wanted to find a group with more mature believers. This doesn't surprise me, as I reached the same conclusion when I was her age.
And I'm really glad I didn't say, "When I was your age" to her.
I've heard stories of a handful of the mid-20's people struggling with the realization that many of their young-adult peers are seeking to party, rather than after spiritual growth.
That does me that I have more in common with them than their age-peers now. I'm a lot further down the path they are embarking on. But I completely understand what they are seeing.
54. Jacob M. said the following at 6:17 AM on May 13:
Irene wrote:
At my age, you can't legally date someone who is five years younger than you.
This kind of statement is made a lot, and while correcting it probably isn't that important in the grand scheme of things, I'm a stickler for accuracy. What are commonly known as statutory rape laws are against sex, not "dating." There are no laws against going to the movies or getting ice cream with someone five years younger than you.
55. Keith said the following at 10:16 AM on May 13:
Ted Slater,
It would probably be more beneficial to say that people are attracted to someone on the same maturity level, rather than saying people are either mature or immature. Maturity is a scale, and we continue to develop our entire lives. There is not a time when we stop and are then are "mature." Maturing is a life long process.
56. Rosa said the following at 5:58 PM on May 13:
I am 37 and have dated guys much younger than myself. I don't look my age so it's not an issue. Plus the guys are pretty mature in my opinion. I would have no problem marrying a younger man. Many marriages in my former church were older women younger men. Besides it seems like all the guys my age are looking to marry younger women anyway so it's fair I think...
57. Mike Theemling said the following at 3:01 AM on May 14:
I smile when I read some of these comments which seem to imply the question, "Why do men marry younger women who are much younger than they are?" As if it's some big mystery.
Hello people! It's mostly about sex appeal, fertility, and our general attractiveness to youth. The maturity argument is largely baloney because many men don't actively seek out much older, more spiritually "mature" women.
If a 35 year old man were given the choice of a 35 year old woman and a 25 year old, all other things about equal (intelligence, personality, spiritual maturity, etc) the guy will almost always pick the 25 year old.
Do a straw poll of marrieds that you know and see how many of them involve a woman who is significantly older than the man (3-4+ years). I daresay that number would be less than 5%. And it isn't be uncommon at all for men to marry women who are 7, even 10+ years younger than them (Ted).
Keith you said:
"I think society has taught us that younger means more beautiful - and that simply isn't always true."
This isn't just a Western phenomenon either. Worldwide the mean difference in ages between a husband and wife and is about 3-4 years towards the husband. Sorry but just about every beauty study shows that both men and women are attracted to youth. Yes, there are always exceptions, but the rule is that young and nubile are desirable.
So let's please stop fooling ourselves into believing that most guys are looking primarily for maturity. True, many don't want to marry an immature woman, but again, given the choice, they'd almost always take the younger of the two.
58. Irene M. said the following at 8:14 AM on May 14:
Comment 49, I agree that age differences will become less important as I grow older and I don't think that is or should be an issue for everyone. Also, the chances of dating someone who is an actual peer of my parents/step-parents is becoming more far-fetched as I move further away from home. It was an exagerration, but I was trying to make a point.
Maybe it is my age speaking or maybe it's because my parents are recently remarried, but the idea of dating someone around the same age as one of my step-parents has a certain surreal quality. For me personally, the issue is being in the same season of life as my parents (newlyweds starting a new family), which feels strange by itself without actually dating someone significantly older than me. I'm sure that once my parents grow a little older and I became more comfortable as an adult that it will become a non-issue. But for now, it is something that I have to deal with and I'm sure it is an issue for other young people as well.
59. Irene M. said the following at 8:22 AM on May 14:
Comment 54, my mistake. How about, "At my age, I really don't want to date someone five years younger than me." Better?
Also, general question, is it really appropriate for college graduates to be dating people in High School? A couple of the comments here have described May/December relationships where the younger party was college age, but I don't remember reading any involving teens and siginificantly older people.
60. Louise from Chicago said the following at 8:58 AM on May 14:
Post 57 is an oversimplication.
What if the 25 year old is substantially overweight, and the 35 year old is not?
61. Mike Theemling said the following at 11:26 AM on May 14:
Louise from Chicago (#60),
Answering your question, of course if the 25 year old is obese and the 35 year old isn't, then yes, maybe the guy would pick the 35 year old. But if you read my question, I said "all other things about equal". That includes weight. Chances are, the guy would just try to find a thinner 25 year old.
You tell me it's an "oversimplification" that men prefer younger women, yet that's what the numbers show. To say that "men prefer thinner women" is also a reasonable generalization given the facts. Yes there are exceptions to everything, but all things considered men, even Christian men prefer women who are younger, healthier, etc.
I just think it's a disservice to both men and women to try and pretend otherwise.
62. Keith said the following at 12:31 PM on May 14:
Mike, there are so many factors to consider when choosing a lifetime partner. Age could one of them, but it should probably be at the bottom of the list. Age is over-emphasized. The most important issues to consider are those related to character, communication, and commitment.
You also incorrect to suggest that all things equal, a man will choose a younger partner. When a man is very mature for his age, he will actually be attracted to women who are older than him. If he is immature for his age, he would probably be physically attracted to women much younger than him.
63. Louise from Chicago said the following at 12:55 PM on May 14:
Comment 61, if someone prefers a younger partner so be it, but "younger" doesn't always mean "healthier!"
I am forty three years old and am healthy as a horse.
I know several people (both male and female) in their twenties and thirties decades who are already experiencing chronic health conditions.
The last time I was sick other than colds and two-day flu bugs was when I had strep throat in the eighth grade.
I'm also five foot nine inches tall with a weight range of 125-130, due to a six hour a week gym routine.
64. Trisha in AR said the following at 2:10 PM on May 14:
Comment 62, very good point made.
I suppose we all have preferences and define beauty differently. But when it comes down to it, 100% of us will eventually lose our youth and outer beauty.
And I'm 37. Is it absolutely necessary to use 35 as being old.:)
65. Mike Theemling said the following at 2:47 AM on May 15:
Keith you said:
"Age could one of them, but it should probably be at the bottom of the list. Age is over-emphasized. The most important issues to consider are those related to character, communication, and commitment."
I agree that from a purely spiritual standpoint, in an ideal world, looks/age/other externals should take a backseat to some of those features like you say.
"When a man is very mature for his age, he will actually be attracted to women who are older than him. If he is immature for his age, he would probably be physically attracted to women much younger than him."
Really? Show me some hard data to show that this is true. Are you implying that Ted and others who married much younger are "immature"?
I'm not saying that most men ignore issues such as communication, honesty, character, etc. I'm saying that in many cases those are a "necessary but not sufficient" condition to meeting someone. Meaning that if they don't have these traits, they won't get selected. But just because you do have these traits doesn't automatically mean you will.
Sorry, but the numbers don't lie. You can talk about "should" all you want, but the plain fact is that men and women (even Christians), don't date/marry upon only the spiritual.
Over the dozens of books, hundreds of articles, academic publications, and experiences I've witnessed over the years (both personally and from friends), I have determined that at least in this country, despite what a lot of Christians (either laymen or in leadership) say, I find no significant difference in preferences (i.e. what makes someone attractive to date/marry) between Christians and non-Christians, other than the fact that Christians tend to insist (correctly) that they date/marry only fellow Believers and to a lesser extent initiate restraints on physical contact.
Whether it be guys with appearance, girls with confidence, "chemistry", sense of humor, etc. those in the Gen X and younger generation essentially have the same criteria for finding dates/mates regardless of what they say. Because when the rubber hits the road and you have to put your money where your mouth is, if you look at the reasons why guys/girls get turned down or not asked for dates it's rarely just because they don't meet some kind of spiritual criteria.
Try visit Christiancafe.com sometime (or any dating site for that matter) and you can see this for yourself. Notice who gets all the views. Those with above-average appearance photos. Those with no photos or the "ugly" ones? You can guess.
Why is it that worldwide (not just in Western society) the husband is an average of 3-4 years older than the wife? Do a straw poll in your area and see how many married couples you know where the guy is older by a significant amount (3-4+ years). I'd dare say less than 5%. What does this tell us? Are older women somehow "less spiritual" than younger ones and that's why guys pass them over? No, it's mainly because of sexual attractiveness, vitality, and fertility. Do you seriously think that single men in church overlook the majority of older single women simply because they are "less mature"? The Cost of Delaying Marriage article gets a lot of flak by some readers for its brutal honesty on the subject of marriage and youth, yet is largely true.
And it's not just age. Take any non spiritual factor. Weight, height, personality, race (despite what you may think, research definitely shows some races are preferred over others). How many women are honestly attracted to guys significantly shorter than them? How many guys are honestly attracted to severely overweight women? Are traits like honesty and kindness appealing only to Christians?
Some may say, "But I've known so-and so and it was anything but typical". That's fine, but that's the exception, not the rule. I'm not saying that God can't work in unique situations, but that we need to be honest with ourselves and realistic too.
The real question though is, "Should we focus on the spiritual more than these 'other' traits?" Should be chastising people because they just don't find so-and-so attractive? As much as we'd prefer to date/marry for more spiritual or maybe even practical reasons, we just don't do it. But is this wrong? Overall, I'd have to say 'No'. I find no strong Biblical mandate to state that we need to date/marry those who we do not find attractive despite being spiritually mature. The sexual attraction aspect of marriage is an important one, both to prevent sin, and to bring both closer together (as well as the practical reason of generating children).
If you criticize one non-spiritual preference then you by extension need to criticize them all.
Now it's true that we can place too much emphasis on preferences. We can ignore red flags that other people see (e.g. financial irresponsiblity, addictions, etc) because we are caught up in our infatuations. And it's true that our preferences can change and/or diminish over time. For example, once we get to know someone we grow more attracted to their personality than their physical appearance. But the point is that we needed something to "grab our attention" in the first place.
I say it's a disservice to deny the facts because for men, it guilt-trips them in pursing women whom they might not find attractive and thus set themselves up for resentment and temptation later down the road once in a committed relationship. For women, it fools them into believing that they can wait until they are 35 to start seriously thinking about marriage and then discovering that their pool of suitors has dropped dramatically.
All I'm doing is pointing out what the facts say about the matter, and asking that we tinge God's sovereignty with some realism.
66. Jim H said the following at 10:08 AM on May 15:
I consider myself fairly mature for my age and yet I am seeking younger women because I would like to have children of my own. Maturity is not a trivial issue, but it is not the #1 issue either as long as the maturity difference is not huge.
The other issue with "older" women for those of us who have never married and are seeking the same (for me, based upon Biblical reasons), is that there is a very small pool of older never-before-married women. So if you're older and want to married using Biblical guidelines you have two choices - younger women or older (sometimes significantly older) widows. If you want to have children of your own, that leaves one choice - younger women.
I think Mike Theemling is on target with his comments.
67. Tami said the following at 10:52 AM on May 15:
It's interesting that many men say there are so few older never-before-married women... and yet here many of us older never-before-married women are...
68. Jim H said the following at 11:12 AM on May 15:
Tami, #67
There are always exceptions to general rules and you apparently are one of them. But the statement that divorcees constitute the lionshare of available older women is neverthless correct. Just spend some time on Christiancafe.com or ChristianSingles.com and this will become quickly apparent. And the reverse is also probably true - most older men are also divorced (and I am an exception here) but I have not personally checked on that since I don't look at men's profiles - maybe the ladies can corroborate or shoot that assumtion down.
69. Mike Theemling said the following at 11:24 AM on May 15:
Correction to my above post (#65)
It should read "the woman is older by a significant amount" rather than "the guy is older by a significant amount"
From the context it's pretty clear to deduce but wanted to be sure.
70. Tami said the following at 11:45 AM on May 15:
Jim H, I totally get what you're saying, but I don't think I am *quite as much* of an outlier as may seem apparent to some. I mean that as an encouragement, too. We *are* out there!
And I'm not even *that* old! Well, maybe by Mike T's standards ;)
71. J. said the following at 11:48 AM on May 15:
Jim H (#68) wrote:
"But the statement that divorcees constitute the lionshare of available older women is neverthless correct. Just spend some time on Christiancafe.com or ChristianSingles.com and this will become quickly apparent."
It's possible these Web sites simply attract far more divorced women than never-married women. Eharmony seems to be popular with the latter.
Do divorced women outnumber never-married women in the church? Perhaps. But we're still left with the fact that the never-married women outnumber the never-married men.
72. Jim H said the following at 12:11 PM on May 15:
J.
I will grant that my experience on ChristianCafe and ChristianSingles is anecdotal and therefore hardly scientific, but these sites do have a large number of people using them.
Your statement that never-married women outnumber never-married men may indeed be correct and actually makes sense because women outnumber men in the overall population. But I wonder how substantial this difference is?
Tami,
Thank you for the encouragement and I encourage you and everyone else to not give up either and continue trusting in God's providence and grace!
73. obewan said the following at 12:39 PM on May 15:
Tami: I think when Jim says "older" he means 40's. LOL. I can relate to both sides of this issue because when I was in my 20's, women in their 30's seemed "old" to me. Now that I am older, 35 year olds are "young" to me. So, if I marry a woman my own age, she may not want children, but a woman around 35 would still be up for it.
And I agree with the divorce comments. At our church singles group, literally 97% of the women over age 40 are divorced. (Out of 50 women, there are 2 widows and one "spinster".)
74. Keith said the following at 2:15 PM on May 15:
Mike,
You have allowed your mind to be overtaken by the principles of evolutionary psychology rather than by the principles of God's word. When a man loves a woman, nothing else matters. Think about Joseph in the Bible - He could have had Mary publically disgraced for her premarital pregnancy, but he planned to quietly let her. According the Biblical view, a man is to love his wife as Christ loved the church, and his wife is to obey and support her husband. You have allowed worldly teaching to re-wire your brain.
The article "The Cost of Delaying Marriage" is an example of how perverse worldly thinking can infiltrate even the minds of Boundless writers. Yes, no one should delay marriage - But that is because none of us should delay any of the responsibilities that God has given us, whether our responsibility is to be married or whether our responsibility is to remain single. That article wrongly claims that men who seek older women are "neurotic bachelors with strange habits; sexual predators who hit on every woman they meet; newly divorced men taking pleasure wherever they can."
The truth is that many younger men may desire older women for wholesome and biblical reasons. Part of the reason is that many men are fed up with the immaturity and games many young women play, and these men actually want to settle down and have a family, and they can't do that with younger women so they turn to older women instead. I was very mature for my age and wanted to get married young, but I couldn't find any younger women who wanted to settle down; that is why I went for someone four years older than me.
For men who mature at a younger age, there are not many choices, except to marry someone older.
75. BDB said the following at 2:57 PM on May 15:
#62 - why would maturity have anything to do with "physical" attraction? People can be physically attractive until you get to know them. With maturity, it's easier to recognize immaturity in others, which becomes a deal-breaker.
I remember one physically attractive woman telling me that on Saturday, she was scheduled to call a co-worker at noon and say, "Looks like a great day to go out on the boat!" so that he could then ditch his friend, who had asked for his help moving.
I was appalled at the immaturity of both of them. She was 30 at the time. Educated, successful career-wise - but also immature and unkind.
I know women much younger who consistently show up for their volunteer slot - and do so without complaint, every week. And are much kinder. Even leaving aside physical attributes, kindness is more attractive than unkindness.
76. Jim H said the following at 3:27 PM on May 15:
Keith #74
I'm sure Mike will speak for himself, but I don't think he is disparaging anyone in any way for their personal choices - in your case marrying an older woman (but 4 years in the grand scheme of things is not that much older, really). Neither is he making moral judgements on men marrying older women. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that and I applaud anyone who has found the love of their life regardless of age difference or whether the man is significantly older than the woman or visa versa.
Rather, I think he is trying to point out that this is not the norm and people should not deceive themselves into a false sense of security based on exceptions rather than norms - in this case delaying marriage in hopes that spiritual maturity will be a greater attractiveness factor than youth, vitality, and fertility. Again, no one disputes that late marriages can and do happen, but people put themsleves at much greater risk of spending their life alone (or settling) if they delay marriage too long.
77. Rachael said the following at 3:38 PM on May 15:
Age, schmage...
78. BDB said the following at 3:39 PM on May 15:
For the record, it's not just men who are impacted by age-related appearance.
My dad still has all his hair, mostly it's original color. I lost mine young, and it started turning gray. And I come from a family where half the men have beards. When he came to visit me at work one day, they called me and said, "You're brother's here."
My what? I don't have a...Oh, you're kidding me!
(I attribute it to a stressful job - kind of like the way President's seem to go gray during their term in office.)
Anyway, one day at the grocery store I was in line in front of a young apparently single woman. She was soon joined by an older bald guy. I asked the guy how he liked shaving his head.
To my surprise, he gave me the whole run-down: how he started shaving it after his divorce, and how the difference was night and day, and how women loved it. He had a lot of credibility on the latter point.
So, I asked one of my 28-year-old friends from church if I should go that route. She immediately agreed and pointed out how her brother-in-law also started losing his hair young.
Well, I must say. That alone makes a lot more difference than I expected. I no longer get hit on by women 10+ years older than me. Equally suddenly, I seem to know all these women in their 20's now. That wasn't the case two years ago. Huh.
Honestly, the only people who commented on the change were other guys that shave their head. There've been a few interesting incidents where I was mistaken for one of them when approached from behind in a suit.
It's an interesting experiement because I didn't change my wardrobe during this time. The classic styles offered by places like Eddie Bauer and Land's End may be boring. But for grownups, classics have the advantage of neither looking like one is trying to recapture lost youth nor being so practical as to be frumpy.
79. Mike Theemling said the following at 2:25 AM on May 16:
Keith you said:
"You have allowed your mind to be overtaken by the principles of evolutionary psychology rather than by the principles of God's word."
If that's true (which I don't believe it is) then I'm in good company because most Christians and most of the world believe the same thing whether they admit it or not.
Actions speak louder than words my friend. I just shake my head when I hear a pastor or small group leader say how we ought to focus on the spiritual at the expense of the physical and yet their wife/girlfriend is a younger, very attractive woman. Hypocricy at its best (or worst)!
Jim H (#76) summarized my position quite well. I'm not criticizing those who marry older, just as I am not doing for those that marry younger. God doesn't have the same plan for everyone and can work in strange and unique ways. I simply am pointing out that the attraction to beauty/youth is a God-given instinct (hence not wrong) and that one should be consciously aware of this in regards to how people select mates. To mislead people by saying "You don't need to worry at all about age, weight, dress, or other externals because real Christians will only focus on your spiritual life" is both ridiculous and harmful.
You mention the example of Joseph in the Bible. Yes, I believe he was a godly, upright man just as Mary was a godly, upright woman. But what does that have to do with marriage selection? You are assuming that since they were both godly, that was the primary reason for their marriage. A big post hoc fallacy. Maybe it was a factor, but was it the only factor? I doubt it.
"According the Biblical view, a man is to love his wife as Christ loved the church, and his wife is to obey and support her husband. You have allowed worldly teaching to re-wire your brain."
Agree 100%. But what does this have to do with mate selection preferences? If you choose a pretty face at the expense of godly character then absolutely you are asking for problems down the road. But that's not what I'm saying.
"The truth is that many younger men may desire older women for wholesome and biblical reasons."
Again, you keep on saying "many younger men". Where are these "many younger men" because I certainly don't see "many" of them. If you want to make such a claim contrary to conventional wisdom, you need to provide tangible proof, not simple ancedotes which highlight the exception rather the rule. And by the way, less than 5% of the Christian population is not "many" in my book.
I applaud your efforts to remind fellow Believers that beauty does not last and that beauty without character won't make for a good marriage. We oftentimes do forget that.
But at the same time I believe that we need to be congizant of our current culture. It's why I'm not a large fan of the "courtship" model. It's not that it's wrong, and in fact probably has more advantages than traditional dating. The reason why I don't think it's viable is that in order for any system to "work", you have to get people to agree to it. And how many young Christians would voluntarily go along with it? I walk up to a young (ahem, older for your sake) woman and say to her, "I've been keeping my eye on you and think you'd be a great wife/mother. I'm going to ask your Dad that we court and in 6-12 months we'll be married. Sounds good?" Yeah, unless she was head over heels with me to begin with what are the chances that she'd agree with this arrangement? Probably zilch. Taken further, arranged marriages would probably even offer more stability yet how many Western Christians are seriously willing to do that?
By wrecklessly disregarding cultural preferences without a solid Biblical reason does more harm than good to those who desire marriage. It's why I'm not afraid to raise the BS flag when a man says, "Appearances aren't that important to me" or a woman turns me down for a date saying, "I'm not looking for a relationship right now" when she just lamented last week about being single.
I might have not changed your mind on the matter, but I have faith that other readers recognize the truth in what I'm saying.
80. Tami said the following at 10:56 AM on May 18:
Trevor -- exaaactly! :)
There is a tremendous amount of social investment needed. And a lot of times I think what happens is that people in churches (a) don't recognize this and therefore don't put effort into it; or (b) have so much energy diverted elsewhere into other ministries that there's no energy left to do so; or (c) don't realize that it is important to invest in the life of unmarrieds (incidentally, I mean widows and widowers, too), as it is to invest in the life of young marrieds.
Because I think in order for this to work, it takes some mingling between local congregations. If things stayed exactly as they are, I will never meet an unmarried guy near my age at my church. And yet -- if you're anything like me -- if you go to a "singles" ministry, or if you want to build one, you don't want it to mirror the "meet market" stuff that can happen, even at churches. And despite my lack-of-gregariousness, I really desire to be networked in person. So online isn't for me :) It takes a lot of energy (prayer, vigilance, diligence) to run a good unmarrieds ministry that doesn't rely solely on youth-group or "worldly" tactics to gather people together.
Thanks for the food for thought. :) Well timed, as it mirrors some stuff I was pondering yesterday and this morning!
81. Keith said the following at 11:13 AM on May 18:
There is something about the age gap thing that really bothers me:
When a guy takes a long time to mature, when he spends his twenties playing video games and participating in useless activities, and when he reaches his thirties and marries a lady in her early or mid twenties, he is seen as "normal."
Yet when a man matures very young, say at the age of 20 or 22, but can't find girls his age who are mature, so he marries a woman much older than him who is on the same maturity level, people think that is deviant.
In other words, young men are rewarded for being immature but ostracized for being mature for their age.
82. Tami said the following at 11:50 AM on May 18:
Keith -- I admire your maturity and find your reasoning interesting.
I have to be honest here. Many of the men who have seemed interested in me, at least initially, have been quite a bit younger. Part of that has to do with the fact that I look 5-10 years younger than I am, but I also think it has something to do with the fact that (like you) they've been mature, admirable guys, who (I like to think!) have seem something similarly admirable in me.
I know a couple of guys -- notably, not natural-born Americans, so the concept of "maturity" and "young adulthood" were likely quite different than the American concept -- who married women at least 10 years older than themselves. These are great guys. WAY more mature and "together" than I usually see in guys their age. Does that mean they were dry bores? Not at all; they're also some of the goofier (in a good way!) guys I've known.
And -- it also pained me when I'd see great, mature guys being turned down by women who'd pick the more "fun" one. It did *not* result in a lot of happiness for the women.
I'm not saying marrying "older" is the norm, but at the same time, it's not like it never legitimately happens.
At the same time, I think that "statistics" shouldn't allow us to despair. And Mike, I think that's where I have trouble with what you write (and you've made these points here before, several times). It's not that statistics don't reveal trends. It's that presenting them in a manner that dictates outcomes or engenders fear is not edifying. Not to mention (uh, except I guess I am!) that it does *absolutely nothing encouraging* for women who have striven to live for the Lord, have wanted to choose a mate wisely, and yet find themselves still unmarried and "too old," and left to think that anyone worthwhile would *prefer* someone other than her. There's a great difference between saying "do what you can to be attractive, and be realistic about your options," and "statistics say you're doomed."
I would rather look to God than statistics as my guideline. This doesn't mean I can show up in my PJ's to church. At the same time, God is more powerful than the results of a survey, or the prevailing opinion of people.
83. Jim H said the following at 12:29 PM on May 18:
Keith #82,
You just don't seem to be reading carefully what people are writing or you are not getting it.
Who on this blog said men marrying older women was deviant? Just because that arrangement does not fall within national averages does not make it deviant. Almost everyone falls outside averages (norms) in one way or another but that does not make them deviant.
And it is not just for maturity reasons that men delay marriage. In many cases, men are trying to get an education and build a career first so they can be a good provider. I fell into that trap as well and passed on some good marriage opportunities that I now regret. In my case, it was seven years in the Navy and when I got out, I was 28 years old and in the position of starting my civilian career from scratch. I was not consumed with playing video games and other frivolous pursuits, but I did make the mistake of not putting relationships higher on the priority list.
So there is danger in delaying marriage even for the noble purpose (on the surface) of establishing the ability to be a provider, but that is another topic in itself.
84. farmer Tom said the following at 12:33 PM on May 18:
Mike is doing an awesome job of making his arguments, most of you on the other hand are reacting emotionally.
As to The Cost of Delaying Marriage comments, the laws of nature do not change. The ability of a female to successfully have children begins to decline at the age of 27. That is a hard science fact, and all the whining and moaning in the world will not change it. Some of you who are purposely delaying marriage for whatever reason are simply playing a game of chance with your fertility.
No Godly Christian guy who desires to have children and be a faithful husband and father is going to ignore the fact that each year of age added to the life of his potential female mate, reduces the probabilities that she will be able to successfully be a mother to his children.
That's a cold hard fact. And if you're delaying marriage for any reason you had better get a grasp on this fact and quickly. Furthermore, from what I have read, birth control use by single females is beginning to be blamed for our lower fertility rates. It seems that extented use of the pill, has long lasting negative consequences, which are not completely understood, but may in fact reduced the fertility of a 27 year old woman who has been on the pill for 5 to seven years compared to a 27 year old who has not.
As to this comment,
Who ever told you life is fair? Lamenting something which you can not control, is a waste of time. Worry about your own situation and quit hating on the guys who marry younger. You have that choice if you what it, so what's your excuse?
Keep hammering away Mike you're doing an awesome job.
85. Erica said the following at 1:18 PM on May 18:
Mike is right even thought what he says might hurt it is true. Before I married I never talk to a guy who is younger than me whether he is very spirtual or not. Young men in church who might be interested in an older woman might not be interested in her for spirtual reason, he could be interested in her for financial. Those 20-22 guys in your churches that shows interest in older woman what is the financial status of those younger men.
Also, when I look at relationship with older women younger men very few of them were successfull and longer lasting. One when the woman was ten years old than her husband, everytime the woman comes to church she spent alot of time watching him. The reasons she is scared of him running off with a younger woman. She even gets in fights with other women over him. This woman cannot borne any child for the man as she tied off after having seven children for her exs. The Young man at 33 years was crazy to have a child of his own and miserable that he could not have any. They were married from he was 23 years old and she 33 years old. Another, the lady was 5 years old than her husband he was 40 and she 45. After ten years living with him she moved out as he had too many affairs any where he goes. She too could not have any children.
It is a reality, some older women will not be able to have children. What I noticed is that after time the younger men in the marriage got bore and start looking for younger companion. Not all these young men motives are spirtual. Even the famous 'How Stella Got Back Her Grove with Terri McMilliam. After the Young man got his US Citizen he left her.
Even with the younger women older man, not all of them all for spirtual reasons. I know a few and if those men were not good provider and were not rich those young women would never notice them. The husbands were about 20 years old in each case. Three of the women were church women. A few years in the relationship one left her husband for a younger man. The last two, both men have strokes and their wives have to be looking after them. The latter two did not have any children for their husbands.
It is risky business and I guess than where the divorce comes in. Out of all those older couples where the woman is older only one of those women have any children. There is greater chance that a relationship with younger men/women and older men/women that age which created adversity that is not present with a younger couple.
86. Tami said the following at 1:43 PM on May 18:
Trevor -- I was thinking about this on my lunch; good to see your post :)
When I refer to mixing congregations, I'm really talking about people from different local churches (even from across town lines! gasp!) working together and putting on events, socials, etc. I've seen it done; the challenge is really in integrating. And yeah, it takes coordinating work!
But here's the thing -- I wonder if, in some small part, that is precisely what God wants us to do: that is, get out of thinking completely about "our church" and "our congregation" and think about The Church.
About "who to invite" in order to maintain a non-meat-market atmosphere -- I think integrating marrieds and unmarrieds is one idea; some other thoughts I had were integrating other age groups (including senior-aged widows & widowers); or, making the focus fellowship-oriented, yet centered on something more "serious" like service in the community, or career oriented (not just, "come here if you have a career!" but something along the lines of: how do you choose a vocation? how do you live out your beliefs in the work environment?)
And your point about big/little churches: I was thinking about that as well ;) I have had friends suggest that I go to church services or activities at big, local churches (or churches in the nearby city) -- and, yes, on the face of it, that sounds like an opportunity to meet more people. Yet, the people I know at those churches aren't having any better luck meeting people than I am! :) So as you say, it's more than just "big v. little" or "city v. town/suburb." It's about people actually connecting.
Thanks again... I really appreciate this dialogue!
87. J. said the following at 2:47 PM on May 18:
Farmer Tom (#85), no woman commenting on this thread -- and few to none on *any* Boundlessline thread for that matter -- has written anything about intentionally delaying marriage and childbirth. Your reminding us of the costs of trying to have children later in life is not edifying.
I write the following to provide balance to what you wrote about female infertility, not to bash older men. Male fertility declines with age, too. And at the same time, the older a man is, the greater number of problematic sperm he has. As such, as a man gets older, not only is he less fertile, he also has a greater chance of fathering a child with autistism, schizophrenia, or Downs syndrome.
88. Tami said the following at 12:58 PM on May 19:
Thanks Trevor :)
I agree that one major point of running a successful ministry like what we're discussing is to know how to keep the foxes out of the henhouse. It requires diligence and discernment, and an atmosphere of fun but no messin' around. ;) Also necessitates that the goal is not to measure success by size, but by the solidity of the relationships to God and each other.
Also -- by including seniors, you're (sorta) working on the Titus 2 principle, of providing godly role models for the younger set.
89. MarkS said the following at 11:17 PM on May 23:
Glancing through this it seems most are talking about upside down experience. I mean that typically men marry younger women, but many of these people are talking about older women. The common (aspiritual) wisdom is that, admit it or not, men are attracted to women in their prime child bearing age where women are attracted to more stable responsible men. This may fly in the face of our society's free love mentality but we can't deny who we are or who God wired us to be. While procreation is only the primary not sole purpose of marriage, the same holds true for needs of companionship and such. So logically a greater age gap would indicate a different rate of maturation (at least to this point) but not necessarily a problem. But I'd think to be more wary when the woman is the elder. In this case it would seem the woman is more immature or the guy is more mature, than in the opposite case.
90. Tami said the following at 10:03 AM on May 24:
Hi Trevor, sorry it took a while!
I think picnics are great. Maybe cooking together? Or a book discussion group (pick something that would appeal to all types, and discuss)? Or working together on a service project, either at your church or in the community.
Anything that gets people interacting :)
91. Keith said the following at 10:40 AM on May 25:
How do you know that God "wired" people to have older man - younger woman relationships? Is there a Biblical verse that supports your view? Or are you borrowing an idea from evolutionary psychology and then trying to attach God to it?
God's ideal is for people who share His holy love to come together; age should never be a factor.
92. MarkS said the following at 9:53 PM on May 26:
I did not say that God wired an age difference, not at all. God wired our subconcious biological drives (our "natural instinct") for His purpose, which in this case is procreation. The point being is that what people perceive as "physical attraction" is really just a biological reaction, much like hunger or thirst.
Assuming there is a purpose does not take a statement from Him, but simply faith that He knew what He was doing. To think otherwise, for me, would be akin to calling Creation wreckless and attraction simply chance.He, in His ultimate art/function infused way, has made everything work like a well oiled machine down to the finest detail while being beautiful and fun at the same time. Ya just gotta love Him, no?
So we are attracted to those who fulfill the familial need even if we don't realize it. The connection to age is simply that women don't "begat" forever, and mature responsible men take time to grow.
The only Biblical reference would be like EVERY marriage in the Bible. Just name one and check the ages.
please don't take this as an accusation or assessment of any relationship. Even if there is an issue, and who am I to determine that, I myself and much more intrigued when He heals and fixes people than when they had no problems. I love those stories and it's hard to have a happy ending without a drama! Don't ya just get all happy when things have looked grim but then our Hero (in white robes, sans hat) rides in to save the day?
93. Keith said the following at 1:16 AM on May 27:
Mark,
This conversation could go on forever.
The main problem I have with your comments is that you observe a phenomenon in the world, then decide that phenomenon is normal / the ideal, and then decided that if it is normal, God must have approved it and created it that way.
Cancer is common. Is cancer normal? Is cancer healthy? Did God approve of cancer?
The truth is that the Bible doesn't give us any direction on older woman - younger man relationships. The only thing that matters is in any relationship is that mirrors the loving relationship between God and his people.
94. Tami said the following at 8:03 PM on Jun 3:
Trevor -- I suppose you just have to be led by the Lord on what would work, in particular, in your area :)
Interestingly, though... I've been praying about local churches getting together, and not long after I wrote my last comment, I found out about a local group that is spearheading efforts to network our area's pastors and lay leaders. And the meeting was right in my backyard! This is not a "young adults" group per se... but many of them were younger (that is, around my age ;). I was really excited to see people from around the area, uniting around Biblical truth and committing to the cause of Christ.
So I guess my answer is, if you feel the Lord tugging at your heart about this... keep praying!