Deciding Where to Live
by Motte Brown on 05/01/2009 at 12:19 PM
When I worked on Capitol Hill, it took me 45 minutes to drive seven miles to my office in D.C. The stop-and-go commute (with a manual transmission no less) contributed to my nervous breakdown, literally. Thankfully, I recovered, and no longer get panic attacks when crossing bridges.
Traffic doesn't affect everyone like that. But it takes a toll to some degree, whether on your nerves or your time or your car insurance. That's why it's listed as a variable on all those best places to live surveys. Here's one with the top ten midsize cities:
The study compared the 124 midsize metros in 20 statistical categories, using the latest U.S. Census Bureau data. The highest scores went to well-rounded places with healthy economies, light traffic, moderate costs of living, impressive housing stocks and strong educational systems.
These are the top 10 midsize metros in terms of quality of life:
1. Provo, Utah
2. Boulder, Colo.
3. Madison, Wis.
4. Bridgeport-Stamford, Conn.
5. Ann Arbor, Mich.
6. Ogden, Utah
7. Fort Collins, Colo.
8. Boise, Idaho
9. Colorado Springs, Colo.
10. Des Moines, Iowa
What's missing from the list of "well-rounded" variables is churches. It's something we often overlook when deciding where to live. But it's at the top of Kevin DeYoung's list from his book "Just Do Something."
You also want to consider the churches available where you are taking a job. Sadly, this is a part of obeying the Scriptures that most Christians rarely consider. Before taking a new job, we look at salary, benefits, school districts, commuting time, and cultural amenities; but if everything else falls into place and there's no good church in the area, it's hard to imagine how God's revealed will — your sanctification — will be well-served.
One of the things we were most excited about when I was offered a job with Focus was joining a church we had attended many times while visiting my wife's family in the Springs. We can attest to the benefits of making it a consideration when deciding where to live. (The traffic's not too bad either.)
1. kaj said the following at 12:37 PM on May 1:
If you "belong" to a smaller-sized denomination, this limits one's choices even further.
2. obewan said the following at 12:51 PM on May 1:
I was once obsessed with this topic. When job hunting, I used the Places Rated Alminac and had a custom spreadsheet. If it were only that simple to land more than one option among "ideal jobs" and then pick from them.
I dreamed of working in with automotive robotics for 13 years. I finally got my wish only to have 6 day 60 hour work weeks and a 1-1/2 hour evening commute in a hostile traffic jam. It did eventually cause mental breakdown and depression.
The Lord blessed me with a layoff and I did manage to finally find my REAL dream job 1800 miles away. Now, I have a 40 hour work and 4 mile 8 minute commute.
It was not by any means of my own selection that I was blessed this way. I have to say it was the Lord. If I ever lose this job, I will have to wait and see if he will bless me again I suppose.
Then too, there are those people at my church that spend hours in their cars listening to Christian programming on their XM sattelite radios...Hope it does not come to that for me...
3. Louise from Chicago said the following at 12:58 PM on May 1:
I have a forty minute home-to-work commute through the northwest Chicago suburbs (passing by Willow Creek Church).
It's okay, but I wouldn't want to drive any further!
I do get more house for my money further west though.
And..if the church community is important to you, you definitely want to consider that when deciding where to live, as Mr. Brown stated.
4. NeedACatchyName said the following at 12:59 PM on May 1:
Here's a suggestion--consider moving to the southeastern U.S. The cost of living is cheap, commutes aren't as much of a problem as in some cities*, and the populous is fairly conservative (assuming that's something you're looking for). There are a ton of churches of all different shapes and sizes everywhere you look, though there is a definite slant towards more conservative evangelical churches and far fewer liberal mainline churches. Heck, even the churches in the more liberal denominations tend to lean conservative in the Bible belt. And for you ladies out there, churches tend to be a lot less likely to have the problem of a lot of single women but no single men. In fact, you can find many areas with too many single men and too few single women, especially in the more rural parts of the southeast.
Why yes, I do live in the southeast...how can you tell? :) :) :)
* With the exception of Atlanta, where the traffic is torturous, which is why I stay out of Atlanta as much as possible. :)
5. Katie M. said the following at 1:05 PM on May 1:
First of all, congratulations to the jokester who managed to get No. 4 Bridgeport to Stamford, Conn. on that list. That was my commute about two years ago, before coming to Tokyo. What should have taken 25 minutes invariably became what was for me a 90-minute exercise in teeth-gnashing. However, what I miss most is a wonderful church in Fairfield, Black Rock Congregational Church. Their college and 20-somethings community is fantastic! Ah, I miss it.
Now I'm in Tokyo and recently had the joy of becoming a SAHM. Hubby's commute isn't bad - a mere 45 minutes by train! - but the hour or more trek to church on the other side of the city has us apartment-hunting on that side of this expansive metropolis. We are finding it's much more difficult to make such a long trip with a baby and keeps us from being part of the church community the way we want and need to be. It likely will mean a somewhat smaller place, but we've simply had to prioritize.
6. Tami said the following at 1:19 PM on May 1:
I see this another way: decide where you're going to live, and then choose a neighborhood in close proximity to a strong church. That way you can be more involved in the body than having to drive an hour to get there every Sunday, and having no time or energy to be involved at any other time.
People tend to worry that they won't find a church; however, I've always seen God be faithful to help those folks find church homes.
And if the Christian community is small, God might be calling you there to help strengthen the body of believers.
Just a thought... from someone who doesn't exactly live in a hotbed of Christianity, yet knows of quite a few good churches in the area.
7. Chris said the following at 1:21 PM on May 1:
I've found the 9 Marks network to be helpful in finding quality churches, especially since denomination isn't a factor with the directory.
My girlfriend and I live a few hours apart and we visit each others respective 9 marks church. It's incredible for both of us to see how seamless visiting another church can be.
8. obewan said the following at 1:31 PM on May 1:
However, what I miss most is a wonderful church in Fairfield, Black Rock Congregational Church. Their college and 20-somethings community is fantastic! Ah, I miss it.
------------------------------------
That is an awesome church. When I lived in Waterford, CT my friends and I commuted 1 hour to get to those meetings. We went to the "Living Circle" singles group for ages 18-30 something that was started by Black Rock. It was the best thing going in the whole state!
9. JuliestD said the following at 1:38 PM on May 1:
I wish there were a list of "best places" that in fact did take into account churches, homeschooling communities, volunteer ministry opportunities, and so forth. My husband and I are newlyweds trying to make these decisions and finding ourselves not even knowing quite where to look!
10. marykate said the following at 1:41 PM on May 1:
i live in cincinnati, where traffic is really not bad at all, and i attend a fan-freaking-tastic church called crossroads community. it's awesome. i'm open to moving some day, if the lord leads, but finding another place like this would be really really hard.
11. Tami said the following at 1:53 PM on May 1:
I checked the 9 Marks site and noticed that there was *one* church listed in a 25-mile radius from my house. And it was not my church... so I can say for a fact that it's by no means exhaustive, so don't fret if you don't find something there. Keep lookin'. :)
12. Janelle said the following at 2:17 PM on May 1:
I think you're spot-on, Motte, about making church a priority in finding a place to live. But I think it's equally important to remember to make disciples wherever you are. If God brings you to a place where there is no good church... is it possible that it's your job to help start one?
13. BDB said the following at 3:12 PM on May 1:
Apparently my church is not a 9-marks church either.
I do think their discussion for and against multi-site churches is interesting. My church is out of space (again) and we keep toying with this concept, since so many people want to hear the senior pastor but we don't have enough space for them to either sit or park. The one time we did it, we ended up turning it into a church plant with it's own pastor. And I think we just lost our lease on that location. :(
14. EKB said the following at 7:59 PM on May 1:
Good point about the importance of finding a good church community. I'm spending the summer in Boston, and one of my top priorities right now is finding a strong parish.
The 9-marks tool is interesting, but their criteria are decidedly Baptist so if you are from a different Christian tradition, it won't be of much use to you.
15. Christina (in green) said the following at 8:08 PM on May 1:
That was my dad's primary reason for moving when I was 5. He moved because the minister at our church moved and he followed him to the new church.
THEN he found us a house and got himself a job =p
I grew up at that church and its where I got married :)
Funny, because I almost moved to DC to go to the church that that same minister is now presiding at. However, I nixxed the move idea when I realized there was a man not 10 minutes away who was actually interested in me. So I stuck around. It paid off :)
Luckily, there IS a church around here that is a pretty decent church.
16. Natalie said the following at 8:21 PM on May 1:
Interesting topic. My church is the main reason I would hate leaving my town.
I'd never heard of 9 Marks, so I did a search of churches in my area. 85% of the results were Baptist Churches, and with all due respect to the good ones, many of the strong churches in my area are not Baptist. Are we sure this place doesn't have an affiliation?
17. Ted Slater said the following at 8:26 PM on May 1:
Natalie (#16) -- yes, 9Marks is headed up by Mark Dever, senior pastor of Capitol Hill Baptist Church in Washington, DC. It's no secret that 9Marks is a ministry of CHBC; nothing sinister going on. :-)
I'm not Baptist -- at all -- but have nothing but respect for 9Marks. Very helpful info, IMO.
18. beatrice81 said the following at 9:18 PM on May 1:
A 65-minute commute to work, sky-high housing costs, stratospheric costs of living, no chance of ever finding parking, congested downtown, and two words that explain why it's all worth it: San Francisco.
Idaho, Colorado, Utah? You're kidding, right?
19. Andrea said the following at 9:40 PM on May 1:
Steve and I use Kevin's criteria as much as possible. I can assure you that Piper's church would be the only way I could bear a Minnesota winter so I'm happy to stay here for awhile.
20. Tami said the following at 9:59 PM on May 1:
I thought 9Marks was a Reformed group... hmm :)
Like I said myself, not even all the Reformed or strong Baptist churches in my area were listed (only *one* church -- at all -- in 25 miles) so there must be some sort of self-nomination going on as well. Which isn't bad; it just means that the 9Marks site isn't wholly representative of *every single strong church* in an area. Not even ones that have all 9 "marks", but maybe don't identify themselves in that way. :) The only reason I say this at all is, don't feel discouraged that there are no strong churches in an area if you don't see one listed on that site.
For those interested: there are different "kinds" of Baptists: National Baptists, Southern Baptists, American Baptists... each will have its own statement of beliefs, which represents their different views on various theological points.
21. Tami said the following at 10:02 PM on May 1:
OK, here we go (from the 9Marks "Church Search" site):
Churches here are self-selected through affirming both
* the 9Marks mission statement
* the T4G Affirmations & Denials
and are minimally screened by 9Marks staff.
...so yes, a church has to *choose* to be affiliated.
22. DannieA said the following at 11:09 PM on May 1:
this is another reason why I don't want to move out of SoCal. Churches. I live in a city close to Loma Linda which is pretty much "mecca" to my specific denomination, not to mention there are plenty of SDA academy options for schools...wheras depending on where you live would be a problem...some places just have a church school til 8th grade and then parents send their kids to boarding academy to get their Christian education....I'm sorry, I'll be sending my kids to a day academy by staying in socal. I couldn't send my kid to school at age 14, I'm sorry.
23. DannieA said the following at 11:09 PM on May 1:
Actually I meant to say, I couldn't send my 14 y/o AWAY to boarding school...that's way too young.
24. Matthew said the following at 10:24 AM on May 2:
Shouldn't our focus, as Christians, be upon Christ as opposed to merely our commute times and what "established" or "strong" churches are present in a given area?
As members of the Church, we are to live in community with other believers, but alongside we must obey Jesus' command to make disciples of all nations. A focus merely upon commute times puts the focus on individuals instead of on Christ and His Bride.
How many "established" or "strong" churches appeared instantaneously? How many were built over generations of faithful obedience to God and His Word?
25. Louise from Chicago said the following at 1:34 PM on May 2:
Comment 19 I can relate to your winter difficulties.
The older I get the more the snow and cold affect me.
After my mother dies I'm going to give serious thought to relocating, if only I could determine where I would go!
26. Kellie said the following at 5:31 PM on May 2:
Is it really that hard to find a good church? I live in "liberal" state and there are no shortage of churches I realize not all churches are biblically based--but if there are a dozen churches in a town (and much, much more than that in big cities)...one of them has to be good, right?
27. Rachael said the following at 3:25 PM on May 3:
Kellie
There must be a lot of wonderful things about churches that people do not feel are their fit.
I live in a liberal state, too, and agree that there are a lot of churches.
It would be nice, though, in my opinion, if there were more churches that clearly demonstrated these things in the service:
1) depravity of man (and not too high of an elevation of him)
2) sovereignty of God (and in songs focus on his power and not on ours)
3) salvation
4) Scripture (and really sticking to it)
Those seem basic, and probably many churches would in theory affirm those core concepts, but it can be nice to clearly see those beliefs regularly reflected in the service.
In my 'ideal' church there would be more considerations than those above things, but I have visited a number of churches and do feel that there are more churches that are further away on the spectrum of 'my fit' than closer to it. But again there's more than the above considerations that I like.
But in the end, what is church? Fellowship with other believers is really important, and perhaps small group studies or something in combination with an 'okay enough' church could be more valuable to going to one's 'ideal' church and being only a Sunday Christian.
I am not satisfied with my current personal walk, church (though very new, and today I went to a different one), and fellowship life at this moment, so I don't write as one who excels in being connected in these areas. These are just my thoughts...
28. Rachael said the following at 3:31 PM on May 3:
(Oh slight clarification: I'm to an extent okay with my new church and fellowship with believers [which includes some people from that church and other churches]-- but at this point I don't sense a deep connection of spiritual enrichment from those things, and they're not my 'ideal', though even if they were, ultimate contentment should not rely on those things anyway.)
29. RMB said the following at 4:46 PM on May 3:
DannieA, I thought I was the only SDA who looked at this site. Hello!
30. BDB said the following at 11:56 PM on May 3:
Depravity of man is a specific theological term. I don't think I ever hear that at my church.
However, in most sermons, the pastor does talk about how sin messes up peoples lives. He uses the phrase, "There's no life there," typically when referring to how people use something other than God to try and fill their needs - whether they do it through spending, entertainment, drinking drugs, etc.
Too an extent it's a style thing. People can relate to challenges in their marriages, families, at work. He tends to point to how those problems are often the symptoms of sin. When he counsels people, often early in the discussion he asks if they really want to follow God's commandments. This usually forces the issue.
For example, if some man comes for counseling and says he thinks he needs a divorce to be happy, the pastor will point out what the Biblical grounds for divorce is - along with a pretty strong bias towards reconciliation. Here I'm talking about the people who are bored or selfish or immature and decide the problem is with their marriage, when really the problem is inside them and will re-emerge on the other side of the fence, where the grass may appear greener.
To an extent, we all have some responsibility for our own Spiritual growth after we get past the basics. Whether that is a daily quiet time, a small group, or even Bible college, there are ways to supplement what you learn at church. It's not likely that in the regular sermon the pastor can communicate something that's appropriate for a new believer that will also satisfy someone who has been a Christian for 30 years. In our case, we have a 45-minute sermon, so both new believers and old-timers usually get something out of it.
Heck, teaching Sunday School might be something that helps you grow. The curriculum we use for elementary alternates between Old and New Testaments. We do missionaries during the summer. So, we can get through all 66 books in the 2-year curriculum (think 3rd and 4th grade, which share a curriculum.) Today was Job, so I ended up reading several chapters of Job to prepare the lesson, and we read a bunch more in class. I'll probably root around some more on my own just because it reminds me of the last time I read it and it makes me think.
31. DannieA said the following at 1:07 AM on May 4:
RMB #29
Hello hello fellow SDA! It's nice to know that others are on here too! Where are you located?????? :D
32. Blue Sarah said the following at 4:18 AM on May 4:
I used to live in the suburbs 20 mins walk away from my work in the centre of town and my church was only an hour walk away (5-10 mins in a car). Then I moved cities; I'm now a 45min bus ride AND a 20 min walk to work and 15 mins in a car to church (I haven't even attempted the walk... yet), but I only have a 15 min walk should I wan't to dip my toes in the Hauraki Gulf.
Judging by the comments so far I'd say I am truly blessed. What's more, my new church is fantastic.
33. Loris said the following at 7:45 AM on May 4:
Having churches to choose from was definitely a factor in our move. Where we came from, the churches of our denomination didn't really speak to each other and all but one was struggling. Also, it used to take an hour to drive six miles to work, and hubby and I both got rear-ended roughly once a week. My nerves were shot after 18 months of that.
34. obewan said the following at 7:48 AM on May 4:
# 26. Kellie had the following to say on May 2 at 5:31 PM:
"Is it really that hard to find a good church?"-----------------------
If participation in a healthy vibrant singles ministry is important then my experience has shown me that the answer is usually yes.
Big cities usually have more for singles, but it also helps to live in the South.
When I lived in a small town in the North I was starving for fellowship with other singles my age.
Now I live in a large Southern city and there is an abundance of choice for singles fellowship. And it involves all stripes from Methodist to Episcopal to Baptist to mainstream mega churches. And they all network and fellowship together and even plan city-wide singles conferences.
35. Rachael said the following at 9:20 AM on May 4:
"typically when referring to how people use something other than God to try and fill their needs - whether they do it through spending, entertainment, drinking drugs, etc."
--And sometimes this (looking to other things and people for contentment) can be subtle and perhaps often unrecognized and maybe even 'holy seeming'. It's not always the most stereotypical 'big' sins.
--We do have responsibility for our own walk and growth...
"It's not likely that in the regular sermon the pastor can communicate something that's appropriate for a new believer that will also satisfy someone who has been a Christian for 30 years."
--But I don't think this necessarily has to be the case, especially if the straight up Bible is being preached.
I long to hear the ideas of the 'basics' of salvation come in a real way from other believers' testimonies.
My mom really seems to 'get it', get the power of salvation, get the power of looking to Christ. She didn't 'get it' in the way she gets it now when she first believed. I don't usually hear believers talk about the powers of the 'basics'. I feel like there are people who really 'get salvation'...like from things I come across on the internet, or my mom, or maybe in contexts where certain theological basics are strongly adhered to. But I don't always hear this in common conversation with Christians. Maybe it would greater depth to get to this level...but it would be nice if this level of connection could be reached.
I guess I want to experience God's transformational power on the 'basics' level, but that often doesn't get talked about, I think.
There is the idea 'preach the gospel to yourself every day'...It would be neat to hear this from other Christians and more often learn about what it looks like in their lives, and see how Scripture actually changes their lives, see how Christ works in their everyday lives. It would be neat to hear more common testimonies from other believers of the daily or common workings of God in their lives, in real life. But maybe other believers are thinking along similar lines as me...I guess context is one important thing. One-on-one conversations might be best for that, or perhaps if it were encouraged in Bible studies or small groups it could happen there...
36. Alison said the following at 9:29 AM on May 4:
I always find it interesting when I hear people travel far distance to attend a church or move to a specific location to be part of a church body. Sometimes to me this seems as though people have a consumer idea about church. Church then becomes all about what I can get out of it, so I can hear the best sermon possible. When you live far from your church you aren't able to easily serve the church body or invite your friends/neighbors to church. Sometimes I feel that people "idolize" a certain minister or minstry, as if they are the only spiritual leaders out there. Living near a big city church requires sacrifice. You may have to live in a smaller apt or forgo your car, but you are closer to church. If you're not willing to make these sacrifices consider a church in your neighborhood,which you can commit to. Also, when choosing a place to live make sure there is employment, so you can financially support yourself and use the talents God gave you.
37. DannieA said the following at 10:33 AM on May 4:
re: church attendance....it is important but as my pastor so eloquently preached this past Saturday there are 3 main components to church attendance and a person will need at least 2/3 components in order to stay connected to church. If you have 1 component, then that's where the church hopping comes in and eventually sometimes fading away.
the 3 components are:
1. Theology
2. Friendships (your support systems)
3. Being involved
Makes sense to me, I've known 2 men who claim to be agnostic, yet they come willingly with their wives to church because they have friends and they will help out in bringing food or arranging chairs for Bible study class etc.... When my parents were seeking a church, my dad was functioning just fine at the old one because he had friends and he was involved, but my mom was miserable because both of them thought the Theology had gotten shaky, and she is more of an introvert and all of her prior friends had left to retire or to live closer to their kids once the kids had grown so she had no components and it was hard until they found a church that both of them could be a part of and have the essentials. If you're struggling with church attendence, maybe it's because you don't have 2/3 components. Not about the commute so much...big church, little church, I think you can thrive in either.
38. Chris Blackstone said the following at 11:06 AM on May 4:
I live in the #5 town, Ann Arbor, MI, and, Lord willing, will be planting a church within a couple of years. There are, at most, 10 evangelical churches in town. When I moved back, I knew there weren't many churches here, having grown up here. Having to look for churches twice since we've been back, I didn't realize just how few churches there really are. It's been tough, but God has definitely been good through the process.
39. DP said the following at 11:31 AM on May 4:
Matthew #24 - Amen and Amen
America is a very large mission field, and we should start acting like it. Should missionaries not move to the middle east because there aren't 'good churches in the area'? Are they not obeying scripture? Or have we forgotten the fact that we are all missionaries, and not just those we send overseas?
40. Tami said the following at 12:16 PM on May 4:
DP and Matthew -- unfortunately, not all of us are gifted by God to be apostles or missionaries. Yes, we can view wherever we go as a "personal mission" -- and indeed, we are all ambassadors of Christ -- but for some of us, that includes joining in the mission of an existing church that believes strongly in the Lord and His Word, and lives out what they believes.
This is not about "comfort" or "convenience". And it certainly isn't about joining a giant church because it's "easy". It's about joining in the Lord's work, as He has gifted you. If that's as a church planter, bless you. If that's as a janitor at a big existing church, bless you. If it's as a teacher at a congregation of 25, bless you.
However I *do* believe that a giant commute to a church mutes some degree of community and locality. I know others probably feel differently.
41. Christopher from Albuquerque said the following at 3:24 AM on May 5:
"9 Marks" is indeed a ministry of Capitol Hill Baptist Church (my church, actually, until I moved across the country!), but it is *not* correct that all of the churches on the 9 Marks site are Baptist. Some of them are Presbyterian, Reformed Charismatic (such as Covenant Life Church, where Josh Harris ministers), or non-denominational.
My current church, Desert Springs Church, in Albuquerque, New Mexico, is a "9 Marks-friendly church," and it is non-denominational. I actually found it on 9marks.org well before I moved to Albuquerque.
42. Mike Theemling said the following at 4:36 AM on May 5:
Interesting, but I wonder what Mr. DeYoung means by "no good church in the area". What is his definition of "good"?
I tend to agree with the reservations that Matthew (#24), Alison (#36), and others have brought up. I do wonder if it reinforces our "consumerism" mentality regarding churches. That a church's purpose is mainly to cater to me and my preferences, rather than a place for Believers to meet, pray, and get to know each other. I'm not saying that one must attend the church closest to them, or that "church shopping" is sinful. For example, if you are single, finding a church with a good single's ministry is a reasonable factor into the equation. But I also don't believe that it should be the most important factor.
I find it hard to believe that there are many places in this country where you cannot find a church which has sound doctrinal teaching with no more than a 20 minute drive away from your home. Yes, you may want a 7th-Day Adventist church but can you live with a Presbyterian one? And is a Lutheran church so different from a Catholic one that you would not attend it (please, let's not start a debate about which church has it right on X, Y, or Z doctrinal issues).
For example, one church I attended had an excellent single's ministry. But after a while the ministry waned because of staff shifts and just general attendance declination. But the church was/is a good one and I had already made a solid friendship with a couple there. I decided that it was more important to stay than just go to where ever the next "cool singles hangout" was. I respected other people's decision to move on and felt it was between them and God. But I wonder if they will be constantly searching for that community they yearn for rather than just work on the community they have now.
43. DannieA said the following at 9:47 AM on May 5:
Mike #42...much to the surprise of some, if I could not find a suitable Seventh-Day Adventist church, I would whole heartedly attend another church. I may not be in agreement with all doctrine, but community is important and the prayer of believers during hard times and good times brings people of God closer.
I think for me more than church, what is an important aspect of life in general (that yes is pounded on in our SDA church) is Christian education. I would need to live in an area that has good Christian schools that are accredited so they could go to college without difficulty.
44. EKB said the following at 5:47 PM on May 5:
Mike Theemling,
I can't speak for 7th Day Adventists, but for Catholics, we do believe that a Lutheran church cannot substitute for a Catholic one. We believe that the Catholic Church is the one true church that Jesus founded, and that only Catholic (and Eastern Orthodox) churches have the Eucharist. I want to emphasize that we are not trying to be picky or consumer-minded about what churches we attend, but that there are fundamental and essential differences between Catholicism and Protestantism. I think most of my Protestant brothers and sisters in Christ would agree with me on this. I don't want to start a doctrinal debate, but there is a huge difference between style differences which should be tolerated and matters of theology which cannot be compromised.