Church People Pastors Fear
by Motte Brown on 05/28/2009 at 3:10 PM
I found this top ten list (and I love top ten lists) while reading Tim Challies' blog. It's about "types" of church people. You know, like the guy who is always referencing some John Piper podcast.
10 People a Pastor Should Fear
1. The guy who "subtly" reminds you how much he gives to the church.
2. The young guy who likes it when you rant against stuff or preach angry.
3. The guy or gals who doesn't like it when you rant against stuff or preach angry.
4. The lady with the unbelieving or spiritually unsophisticated husband who emails you a lot.
5. The person who finds you right after the message to point out something you got wrong, quibble over a minor point, or mention some other criticism.
See if you can guess which one of the above best describes me?
Go to The Gospel-Driven Church blog for the rest. And while you're there, check out his 10 Church People You Shouldn't Trust. See anybody you know?
1. BDB said the following at 3:20 PM on May 28:
Gosh Motte, I can almost picture you stopping the Pastor afterwards and saying, "The L in TULIP should be capitalized."
2. Ana B. said the following at 3:37 PM on May 28:
In point number 4, is it the wife or the husband doing the emailing? That ambiguity definitely affects the implications for fear.
3. Mark W said the following at 3:37 PM on May 28:
Man, that was convicting.
I'm a #2, 7, and 8, currently in recovery
4. BDB said the following at 3:57 PM on May 28:
I am glad that #5 talks about the Pastor being drained immediately after the service. It's not an admonition to never disagree. Amusing that #6 is to fear the person who always agrees with all your sermons.
I read in a book once about a public speaker who invited his wife to share his observations on his speaking performance so he could improve. He later had to ask her to not share them immediately and deflate him right after the speech.
If I really disagree with something, I might write and save a draft, but I'll go dig through the Bible and see if it agrees with me or him.
I can't remember a recent disagreement, though. There was one where he read a list of statistics that made it sound like Americans were the only rich people in the world. I did shoot off an e-mail mentioning that those statistics were more than 20 years old.
He agreed - because he's travelled the world and seen lots of wealthy people in other countries.
Then he assigned me the task of re-doing it with current economic growth numbers. Ah. It seems I volunteered.
It doesn't help that we're in the midst of a huge economic restructuring. Even the numbers from 2006 are wildly out of date. I need 2008 data to be accurate...by country and continent if you have it...
5. Matthew said the following at 4:48 PM on May 28:
oh man, I am #5 and #8 so bad sometimes!
*hangs head in shame*
6. brx said the following at 5:03 PM on May 28:
Motte asks See if you can guess which one of the above best describes me?
I'm thinking you're a bit of number 2 and 5.
I kind of like it when the're ranting and angry preaching is directed toward church people. :> I've stopped correcting some time ago because in a large church, they get quite enough of it already. I noticed the other day, the senior pastor's email address is no longer listed in the bulletin.
7. Lauren said the following at 5:56 PM on May 28:
BDB, probably something on the World Bank website. www.worldbank.org Try the "Data & Research" tab at the top. Try "Data by Country" under the drop-down menu in the "Data" section. Beyond that, I don't know what you need. Good luck! :)
8. the most frequent Kate said the following at 5:58 PM on May 28:
I guess another one: "The woman who gives you ghastly, not-good baked goods and insists you eat them every time you see her."
I most agreed with the last two of the people in church you shouldn't trust, perhaps just because I grew up in a church led by such a pastor as this:
"2. The pastor who doesn't write his own sermons, doesn't disciple anybody, doesn't do any hospital visits, and doesn't do any counseling.
What is this person? He's not a pastor. Tell him to get a job.
1. The pastor who rarely talks about Jesus."
9. Texas Craig said the following at 8:57 PM on May 28:
Motte:
I cannot imagine you are any of those! :-)
As for me, I liked the comment about the guy who agrees with everything you say. Avoid that guy, even though your ego may like him!
As for me, I always like hearing from my detractors and those who disagree with me, because it helps me get a more well-rounded view and forces me to think about the weaknesses in my position. (Of course, that only happens after I cool down and get past my defensiveness!) ;-)
10. BDB said the following at 11:40 PM on May 28:
Thank you Lauren (#7). They do have a lot of data.
So far, the most current thing I've found on household wealth by country is 2005 data. Given what's happened in the U.S. with both the stock market and housing price collapse, I really want 2008 year-end data. It's clear that the U.S. is far less wealthy now - particularly compared to the Eurozone, parts of Asia and the Middle East. The 2005 data will overstate U.S. wealth because it will include the inflated real estate prices and a stock market twice as high as today.
But I will keep digging to try and find the current numbers. Eventually.
I don't actually think anyone has correct numbers right now, if for no other reason than the banks have no idea what the assets on their books are worth. Anything they reported, say, in 2007 even is probably inflated by 20%. It's almost necessary to fix the banking crisis first and THEN readjust the 2008 year-end numbers.
We now conclude the macroeconomic discussion and return you to the regularly scheduled discussion about why aren't you married.
11. Sara said the following at 12:22 AM on May 29:
Was a 7, working on trying to stop being a 5, and sometimes act like I think I am 10, but then doesn't everyone think they know it all at some point? Maybe not lol, maybe it is just me!
12. beck said the following at 8:49 AM on May 29:
as a pastor's kid, I have a slew of church trauma issues related to:
-the elderly church lady (often WMU leader/church organist/Sunday School teacher) who believes she should run the church, and has an army of relatives and friends she can rally against a pastor at the snap of her fingers
-the scumbags who hate the pastor but are saccharin sweet to his kids, hoping to get close enough to them that they can pry out family conflicts/tension in order to use these against the pastor
-the family who upon hearing the pastor's family's plans to take their daughter out for Chinese food for her birthday after church invite themselves along-for Mexican food
13. Motte Brown said the following at 9:02 AM on May 29:
I see myself in #2 and #5, except that I rarely confront the pastor after the sermon. Usually I just lean over and point out his mistakes to my wife. =)
14. BDB said the following at 12:15 PM on May 29:
But Motte (#13), that's murmurring!
Though I admit it's funny to be sitting next to my pastor's wife during the sermon, when he's using an example from his own life to show how God disciplined him, and she leans over and makes funny comments about the same incident from her perspective...
15. Tamara (from Canada) said the following at 3:04 PM on May 29:
Both those lists made me stop and think. I can definitely see myself in some of those at various times in my life . . . but I'm not wanting to stay there. It's a good check to get you thinking.
16. Emily Y said the following at 5:42 PM on May 29:
Haha, I love No.10 on the list! So true. For No.5, atleast they decide to point out a mistake after the sermon, I've seen horrible situations where people point it out loudly in the MIDDLE of the sermon (in a small congregation that is). Definitely be afraid of that person too.
17. arlen said the following at 12:09 AM on May 30:
What about the guy who monopolizes the pastors time during the week and on sunday, lunches and coffe during the week. Puts the pastor on a pedestal, treats him like the Pope