The Saddest Part
by Thomas Jeffries on 01/13/2009 at 2:41 PM
The saddest part isn't that Natalie Dylan (not her real name) is auctioning off her virginity to the highest bidder.
The saddest part isn't that the San Diego student is using the auction to help raise money to pay for her graduate studies.
The saddest part isn't that the 22-year-old got the idea from her sister, who spent three weeks working as a prostitute at a Nevada brothel to fund her own college education.
The saddest part isn't that some 10,000 men have already bid on the young woman's chastity.
The saddest part isn't that, four months after Howard Stern helped her launch the auction, Dylan has now reportedly received an offer of $3.7 million.
The saddest part isn't even that the money she hopes to raise will fund an advanced degree in marriage and family therapy.
No, the saddest part is all of it.
1. Kit said the following at 2:47 PM on Jan 13:
This is sad. However, this isn't really anything new--women have been participating in prostitution for years as a means of income. It's just sensationalized now.
This is indicative of a much larger issue.
2. Megan said the following at 3:22 PM on Jan 13:
Yeah, my coworker read this on FOXnews.com earlier today; it seems pretty mainstream with America's values (obviously this is a blanket statement). Are we surprised? Just because it hasn't been done before doesn't mean that the seed was planted a long time ago.
I commented on Motte's "A Sign of Things to Come", an article on the aggressiveness of the homosexual lifestyle, that adultery will lose its meaning after same-sex marriage is legalized (because I think we all know if will be). After "Natalie" seals the deal with the highest bidder, she'll have committed adultry in the public eye. But what does it matter? Sex before marriage is definitely not condemned in this world.
Who's going to reach out to her and share the gospel?
3. Jo said the following at 4:21 PM on Jan 13:
"...adultery will lose its meaning after same-sex marriage is legalized (because I think we all know if will be)..."
Erm... If you mean adultery as in marital unfaithfulness, I disagree, and if you mean adultery as in sex before marriage, I think it's already lost its meaning in secular society. I don't really think same-sex marriage will have anything to do with either. And yes I am against it.
4. kaj said the following at 4:27 PM on Jan 13:
re: comment #1
And it's just as sad is that men (and yes, even a small handful of women) all over the world have kept prostitutes in business; the so-called "sex industry" is alive and well.
It's also sad to are also people of both sexes who are "employed" in the "sex industry" unwillingly.
The unwilling participants range from kidnapped people or teenage runaways to women sold by families for a few dollars, or those lured to big cities by an offer of what appears to be a legitimate job, only to be trapped in the web of human trafficking.
5. Al said the following at 4:35 PM on Jan 13:
What's somewhat "new" and compounds the sadness is that this item of news is presented mostly as light, eyebrow wagging amusement by the media, and elicits little outrage from our culture at large. In choosing to include rather glamourous shots of "Natalie", even the articles about her act as as vehicles for her publicity and indirectly serve to promote her stunt. It's precisely because our society still recognizes the vistiges of sexual mores that this is even a big deal-- but these values are acknowledged only so they can be perverted to render the stunt even more sensational, titillating, and profitable. It's pretty twisted.
6. TINA said the following at 4:54 PM on Jan 13:
sad:( to think this is even excepted in our world....this is far more worse then prostitution this is saying its ok.....and when its over are the police gonna come and arrest her for soliciting sex? or is that also becoming a thing of the past?the money will the goverment tax such a large amount?we are only allowed what $600.oo a year that is not tax...if she does not get arrested then be prepared for all the hookers,brothel houses,escort with benifit places to cause some legal action when they get arrested or slap with a fine...."she did so can we" will be the fight...and is Howard Stern considered the jon? has he paved a way for all the jon/prostitutes in our country to what demoralize ones self? classic case of history repeating it self"Sodom and Gomorrah"The LORD did say this would happen so as a christian i am not surprised....just sad for the girl,10,000 who so far bid on her,Howard stern,and anyone who thinks this is ok...i am def.gonna pray for this mis guided young lady and her sister i might ad.....
7. BDB said the following at 4:55 PM on Jan 13:
Gosh, when I was in college, it only cost a few shots of Tequila. I've heard anyway. I guess that's inflation for you.
8. farmer Tom said the following at 5:11 PM on Jan 13:
Can you say "cognitive dissonance".
First, what does this whore (I used that word on purpose, prostitution is far to genaric) know about marriage and family?
Second, what fool would take advice on marriage and family from a harlot?
Third, since when does using immoral means to achieve a supposed honorable end, make the person doing the immoral act honorable (selling sex to get a master degree)?
Now on the other side of the coin, I have to admit that this female is far smarter than the vast majority of American women today. How many teenage/twenty something women have given their virginity away to some knuckle dragging loser, when they could have sold it in the free market for thousands of dollars?
How many (Christian) young women have played the role of the harlot, and didn't get paid?
9. Thomas Jeffries said the following at 5:26 PM on Jan 13:
For those who've wondered, "Natalie" is avoiding prosecution for soliciting sex by holding the auction through a Nevada brothel where prostitution is currently legal. What I haven't heard is what percentage of the final bid the brothel gets, but I don't see how it really matters.
10. Hannah said the following at 8:22 PM on Jan 13:
Revolting, yes, but surprising? Not so much, if you keep in mind that TV is devoted to shows like "The Bachelor" (a bunch of women strutting their, er, stuff, for a guy and millions of viewers) and "Sex and the City." If those shows are popular and permissible, is it shocking that "Natalie" thinks her method of making money is fine? It's all a part of feminist liberation--a girl can do whatever she wants with her body and it's not immoral, just her right.
11. Keith said the following at 8:41 PM on Jan 13:
It's sad, but people to what they think they need to do to survive. One of my criminology professors once told me he once had a female student, who after giving a presentation of what prostitutes do to survive, identified herself as being that kind of woman. At first he didn't know what she was talking about - He thought she was talking in metaphors, or that in some ways the prostitute personifies women in general - even what the young female student was telling him finally clicked: She was selling her body to fund her university studies, because she couldn't do it any other way. Pretty sad.
12. Grace Ashley said the following at 10:21 PM on Jan 13:
The article I read ended with a comment from Natalie saying something like "It's funny how high the bids are from a society that doesn't value virginity any more." ...People try so hard to wish away the truth... and it's obvious her major isn't Economics (supply goes down, demand goes up)!!!
13. Katie said the following at 10:36 PM on Jan 13:
Wow. You are right-- it's all so sad...
14. Jeni said the following at 10:41 PM on Jan 13:
Wow. This is very, very sad. It is a story that represents where we are as a society. I am often surprised that God continues to extend His Grace to humanity. It is only by His Grace that we continue to walk this Earth.
15. tmd said the following at 10:51 PM on Jan 13:
I actually think it's a pretty smart idea. If you're going to engage in pre-marital sex, why not profit from it. This, of course, assumes she is neutral concerning adherence to a religion.
16. Michelle said the following at 3:01 AM on Jan 14:
I don't want to say but that it really is just sad. Who told her that she was worth an amount of money? Who told her that this was a means to an end? Who didn't hold her tightly and tell her that she was loved, cherished, honoured, a daughter of the Most High God?
I've been blessed to live a life where no man-be it father, uncle, grandfather, friend has looked down on me-or I've never noticed-so I can't even relate to thinking about doing something like it...
This is the time where we should be looking at the girls (and guys) in our lives-the younger ones and reaching out to them to ensure they know how loved and cherished they are...
Let us not wait until we have to clean up the mess of not doing something...
17. Trevor Dolby said the following at 4:24 AM on Jan 14:
The article doesn't offer much certainty about this young lady's history - I would hope the buyer (client?) would be able to verify the "virginity" claim somehow.
See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hymenorrhaphy . . .
18. Sarah P. said the following at 8:33 AM on Jan 14:
Ya, what about all those girls on American Idol coming on to Simon in order to get on the show? Isn't that kind of the same thing? It is disgusting, but mostly, I feel so sad for those people. For our whole country; for the world. For me, for taking a certain amount of entertainment value from such things. Sin is definitely just as active in our age as it has always been. I wish it were not so, but... I'm ready to fight, as God gives strength.
19. Peter P said the following at 10:28 AM on Jan 14:
Very sad - that she values relationship and sexual intimacy within a loving relationship so little.
It's probably also illegal. Yes it's being done with the help of a legal brothel but the bids are probably coming from across state lines - which I would guess is illegal!
20. Trisha said the following at 10:39 AM on Jan 14:
Well put, Thomas. There are no words to express the sadness of this ordeal. My heart grieves for her, the men who are bidding on her chastity, her family, society, humanity.
21. Kate said the following at 2:11 PM on Jan 14:
In response to Trevor # 17... if one's beliefs dictate it is ok to sell or buy a woman's body for sex, I don't know why being deceptive/deceived about the "product" would even be an issue.
What difference would it make to the "buyer" if the "virginity" was "genuine" or not? The power felt during that act, or whatever it is he's seeking is within his own imagination anyway. It's not "real" in any objective sense.
It will be interesting to see if she goes through with it when it comes down to that very strange meeting, and how she reacts afterward if she does (which may not be publicized). Sometimes it is hard to know how truly awful something is until you're really faced with it or until you've done it and learned the hard way.
How will she ever recover socially or professionally from being "that girl who sold her virginity?" I suppose some people might support what she has done, but I can imagine a lot of even very liberal feminists feeling uncomfortable with it. Maybe not? She will definitely have an interesting time at school and once she is trying to serve clients if people are informed about her past.
There are definitely reasons why prostitution is known as the "oldest profession." Not only is it an "easy" thing for others to force women into and not much work on their part to do so... the actual "work" involved for women who decide to do this isn't very effortful. It isn't as effortful, as say, working for years in a day job to pay for your degree. And the negative sides of it may not be readily apparent to somebody with her eye on the prize (in this case a rather large sum of money).
Maybe the whole thing is an experiment and she is not even going to do it!
22. Jo said the following at 2:12 PM on Jan 14:
"Gosh, when I was in college, it only cost a few shots of Tequila."
Yeah I gotta say, I had the same thought... People are offering to pay millions for what they could get for free?
What's interesting is that there's obviously still some attraction to virginity, at least virginity in women. I mean, in anything else, more experience = better. You don't pay more to be an accountant's first client! And the world is trying so hard to tell us that sex is just like anything else, right?
23. TINA said the following at 2:38 PM on Jan 14:
farmer Tom#8- i have to give it to ya....you always make me think.... last statement is so very true for unfortunately most of us that were born after lets say 1800...and even then this kind of behavior existed just not so open...untill you got the scarlett letter....i would like to ad i think you make for a great debater your raw and that's good....
24. farmer Tom said the following at 7:18 PM on Jan 14:
While I was working today, I was thinking about what I had written on this subject last night, #8 above. I really expected Boundless not to post that comment, because I wrote it with the full knowledge that my comments were more than a little past the edge of good taste.
I also expected some young lady to protest the last part of my post as unfair. I'm really surprised that it was posted, but even more surprised that once it was posted there were not at least a few screams of protest.
I have argued here before than women hold the position of power in the male/female relationship. And this wench is evidence of that truth. Men want sex. It is part of the way God made them. Now God said that the sexual relationship was to be confined to marriage. So, any woman who agrees to have sex outside the marriage relationship is not only violating God's standard, they are also making the thing that men desire available at a lower cost than it was before. Using God's standard, the price for a fulfilling sexual relationship was a commitment to one woman for life. Under the worlds system, especially in our current society, the cost for sex is negligible. # 12. Grace Ashley had it right, when there are few women untainted by sexual immorality, the price for one who is so far unviolated is very high.
Ladies your virginity is a valuable commodity. Don't be giving it away to the first good looking stud that whispers sweet nothings in your ear. Instead trade that value for something with long term value, marriage. If the man wants to have the commodity, make him put a ring on your finger and forsake all others.
Now for a joke, to reinforce that point I was trying to make in #8.
So would you sleep with someone, for, oh say, dinner and a movie?
How about, if he told you he loved you?
25. BDB said the following at 12:29 AM on Jan 15:
Hey - Jo understood!
I know the Tequila comment was random. I had a random day. I met an old boss for dinner, and he happened to be in the bar waiting. Monday night, empty bar. He asked the early-20's bartender if anyone ever ordered the $350 bottle of wine. There's apparently one guy who does, six times a year.
Then she and the one 20-something woman at the bar (eating dinner alone!?!) had this long, complicated discussion about all the types of Tequila that were displayed behind the bar. (Mexican restaurant.)
Man, I had no idea it was that complicated. I mean, I heard about the salt and lime, but all the rest of the discussion...I've led such a sheltered life...
26. Mike Theemling said the following at 2:54 AM on Jan 15:
What's sadder is that if she does end up getting the $3.7 million from the deal it will just encourge other young women to follow suit.
Indecent proposal indeed. Except now offered by the woman instead of the man.
27. rushncap said the following at 6:26 AM on Jan 15:
No, the saddest part is that FotF readers care so much more about a single girl's virginity and the private matter of what she does with it, than they do about millions of starving and dying children all over the world.
28. diana said the following at 6:43 AM on Jan 15:
"How many (Christian) young women have played the role of the harlot, and didn't get paid?" from farmer Tom.
This is a chilling statement because of it's very truthfulness. Reminds me of that song by Casting Crowns "It's a slow fade, when you give yourself away...people never crumble in day". It's a mental and heart process of devaluing ourselves, God's laws, and our own conscience that allows us to commit these sins and even think it's okay and normal.
We're so far from the "normal" according to the Bible, that in our society, truth and biblical standards seem radical and shocking. Proverbs said truth is fallen in the streets--we see it trampled daily.
He gave us those 10 shining commmandments for a reason....not a fence to restrict us and "keep us in", but a fence to keep the deathly harm of snarling sin away. They are the "ten"der commandments, indeed, given from His heart of infinite love.
The final truth is, that this girl is not going to be paid---SHE will pay....we each pay when we sell our eternal soul values out on a cheap market for a cheap exchange rate. She's not to gain from this. Neither will we as a society.
29. Trevor Dolby said the following at 7:18 AM on Jan 15:
Kate (21): I'm not sure about the motivations of the buyers, but I think I'd want to be sure of getting what I thought for several million dollars!
It's a lot of money, which seems odd; a ticket to some of the dodgier parts of South-East Asia would surely be a lot less.
30. Trevor Dolby said the following at 7:23 AM on Jan 15:
Jo (22): Female virginity seems to be important to men for some very deep-seated reason (though I don't claim to know why). It pops up in so many cultures, in so many places, that it gives the impression of being hard-wired into us men.
Of course, it makes more sense if you assume that God created the concept of virginity in the first place, and also created men. After all, he could have created women differently, so men couldn't tell - the fact that men _can_ tell implies it must be important in some way.
This is an unpopular thought in today's western world, but it does seem to be true.
31. TINA said the following at 7:56 AM on Jan 15:
farmer Tom-I can completely understand why boundless posted it you are the kind of writer that raises questions and thought into ones life maybe even some harsh reality(at times),sometimes i think its just your opinion or the craft to get a real good debate going...and even though i am a women your last comment from post #8.maybe using the word harlot is a bit much not every women is a harlot just because they have had premarital sex,however that would be the only argument....if you look deeper into the meaning of that statement there are under tones of truth.....so i really cant see for me as a women cackling about it truth is truth.....nothing to get offended about most women/men are not virgins when they marry...sad however true....
32. Frank Martens said the following at 9:28 AM on Jan 15:
What's sad is that our first parents (Adam and Eve) fell into sin in the first place.
What's worth rejoicing is that there's hope in the Cross.
33. Matt from DC said the following at 10:39 AM on Jan 15:
farmer Tom,
I don't think you're taking it far enough in comment #24.
How about, would you sleep with someone because you felt like it?
34. diana said the following at 11:27 AM on Jan 15:
Right on, farmer Tom. Right on.
I saved my virginity of 30 years for my loving, wonderful husband; and gave it to him on our wedding night. It was and is so worth the hard road that chastity requires. The gift I had saved for him, in turn, was the biggest gift I could have ever given myself. I now associate sex with love, commitment, and heartfelt joy; not with regrets or shame. I'm humbly thankful to have had that wonderful experience, while not condemning others who haven't (God's grace is all-encompassing). There is no greater reward for virtue, than virtue itself. It's holy joy. It's beautiful.
35. Sarah P. said the following at 1:05 PM on Jan 15:
rushncap (#27) said: No, the saddest part is that FotF readers care so much more about a single girl's virginity and the private matter of what she does with it, than they do about millions of starving and dying children all over the world.
Not sure that follows. This post is about that girl's virginity, so people are responding to that topic. There's a lot fewer responses than on other topics. Also, it is scarcely "private" when she is advertising it to the world. :)
I've seen a lot of your comments on Boundless. I have friends who are atheists, and you remind me of them. It's true. We Christians take a lot of thoughts and feelings about sex for granted, not realizing that many others don't "get" what we're talking about. But it is something super important, which is why it can cause so much heartache. I think the basic assertion here is that there is a right way to live, a way that makes purpose out of everything. And if so, there is an order that best suits the way the world is made. We all (me included) disrupt that order daily. So we could expect dire wrath from the one who created everything, except that he already died to take the wrath away.
That's the point. This situation is like a large pimple on a patch of clear skin, something that disrupts order and beauty. It's stunningly obvious, because it's on the news and in our faces.
I think if you do a search for the organizations who are helping world hunger, most of them will probably be Christian.
36. rushncap said the following at 1:07 PM on Jan 15:
Actually, Trevor, why we value virginity is fairly simple. I will, for the time being, assume that you're right, and that we still do value it, although in modern western cultures that value has declined significantly. None of my partners were virgins, and not once did I actually care about that. And I'm certainly not unique.
Virginity, evolutionarily, is valuable for the simple reason that it guarantees your own progeny. After all, a woman with multiple partners, once she gives birth, cannot be sure whose child it is. And the male likewise is unsure whose child the female is bearing, unless she is a virgin. Therefore, a large part of virginity's value arises out of it being the best possible guarantor of a male's genetic continuation.
A secondary reason for its value is that losing one's virginity is usually a very memorable event. Sexual reproduction is one of the most important drives in animals, and maybe the only one where there is an age onset (unlike food, shelter, self-preservation, etc). This occasion is momentous, usually. As such, it allows the male who participates in this process experience a feeling of both power and dominance over the female. It's a power trip, basically, a form of male competition.
37. Christina (in green) said the following at 1:21 PM on Jan 15:
Wow...for once I agree with Rushncap!
Well said in #36.
Perhaps this is one of the reasons why the goal was to impregnate at consummation.
38. TINA said the following at 1:35 PM on Jan 15:
#34 Diana- I applaud you....:)Something to be very proud of and what makes me happy is if the LORD blesses you with children you will instill this important value in them...Hence the generational blessing to continue....AMEN
39. TINA said the following at 2:05 PM on Jan 15:
ummmm.....rushncap????? It is valued...in all religions each has its own identity for it....whatever Natalie believes as far as faith goes virginity has a $ sign and is where the value lies...i'm not going to sit and re-write the bible for you however old testament men were permitted many lovers however had one they called wife...women were to be faithful knowing their ever loving husband made love to the servant girl...for some it was the question of being barren.....and encourage the sexual behavior of there husband...however in the old and new testament i have never read where the LORD allows the same behavior in a women to be excepted by the spouse or public....this generational covenant stands true today....Eve was created for Adams pleasure not the other way around that is why it has always been more socially acceptable for men to have many lovers and not women.I will give you one scripture that comes to mind Proverbs 31 look it up great example of a honorable wife.....
40. Autumn said the following at 2:13 PM on Jan 15:
rushncap(#36) wrote None of my partners were virgins, and not once did I actually care about that.
Not being snarky here, but you cared enough to find out if they were virgins.
Virginity, evolutionarily, is valuable for the simple reason that it guarantees your own progeny. After all, a woman with multiple partners, once she gives birth, cannot be sure whose child it is. And the male likewise is unsure whose child the female is bearing, unless she is a virgin. Therefore, a large part of virginity's value arises out of it being the best possible guarantor of a male's genetic continuation.
I think you're conflating fidelity with virginity. A woman who has given birth is obviously not a virgin, but if she has sex only with one man he can be quite sure that he is the father of her subsequent child despite her not being a virgin. It seems to me that you're using the virgin=saint/non-virgin=slut mentality that you (so rightly IMO) condemn elsewhere.
As such, it allows the male who participates in this process experience a feeling of both power and dominance over the female. It's a power trip, basically, a form of male competition.
Truer words were never written, and I suspect it is the driving force for most of the bids on this woman. It is far less about the woman and far more about the victory and the power. Virginity has no intrinsic value, nor is it a good indicator of one's virtue. This auction is about male fantasy: the virgin whore, the right to rent a woman's body to do with as one pleases and then be rid of her -- and to be the first who has done so is positively rife with power.
41. Trevor Dolby said the following at 2:41 PM on Jan 15:
rushncap (36): I have some ideas about "why", but I thought I'd not start by claiming to provide the definitive answer :)
Your second answer to "why" leaves a new "why", if you assume God as the creator. Why did God create humans like that? Is it in fact a "Good Thing"?
And (possibly more importantly) are you certain all guys feel the way you describe? (that is, that it's a power trip).
Of course, none of these questions matter if the answers don't affect how we behave. How many of us are really willing to state publically that we do value virginity in brides? I know many Muslims and Hindus are, but it's not something I've heard much about in Christendom.
42. Trevor Dolby said the following at 2:51 PM on Jan 15:
diana (34): Respect, sister! What you have done is remarkably difficult in the world today!
43. TINA said the following at 3:02 PM on Jan 15:
Did anyone consider this?:God is allowing this to take place in our world in a very public way.....So lets say down the road because we all know this is possible Natalie becomes saved hmmm....WOW..... what a powerful testimony this will become for GODS glory.....and i would bet her family/marriage counseling office will be flooded with people....I can see even a ministry to help women who consider engaging in like behavior....I choose to continue to pray for her ya just never know......
44. rushncap said the following at 3:32 PM on Jan 15:
Trevor: ay, there's the rub. I don't assume god as a creator. I assume what we know scientifically, and that is our evolutionary history. Unlike the "god hypothesis", the evolutionary theory has a nice, neat answer to the question you asked.
Am I certain all guys feel that way? Well, I'm certain that NOT all guys feel that way. If you read my earlier post, you'd note that I, for one, have never been with a virgin, nor did I ever care that they were not. But do you deny the power trip of sleeping with a virgin, and the fact that some men might be attracted to that?
Autumn -- of course I found out they were not virgins. How I found out is irrelevant, but sure I did. I also found out many other things about their past: their friends, their family, their favorite foods, movies and sports, their fears and hopes. That's what happens when you're in a relationship: you tend to find out a lot about your partner. You, like many others on this board, immediately assume that because I know it means I care, negatively.
I'm not personally using "virgin/saint, non-virgin/slut" approach at all. Fidelity is, of course, even more valued than virginity. I don't think anyone would deny that while only a few men care if their girlfriend / wife is a virgin going into the relationship, almost all of them care that she stays faithful. However, biologically speaking, a-priori virginity is an iron-clad guarantee that any child born from this union is the product of the 2 people involved. I'm merely providing the biological / evolutionary explanation for why historically virginity has been considered to be important.
I agree with your last paragraph. Of course it's all about the fantasy. After all, anyone who can afford several million $ for one night with 1 girl certainly would have no problem getting a girlfriend / wife. Hell, you can buy a small sports arena worth of brides from Eastern Europe or Asia for that kind of money. In this particular case it's all about the power trip. But I was merely commenting on why I think virginity in general is considered such a hot commodity.
45. Trevor Dolby said the following at 4:03 PM on Jan 15:
rushncap (44): I had guessed you wouldn't assume God as creator - that's why I made sure that clause appeared in the sentence :) For people who do not make that assumption, evolution (some interpretation thereof) might be a starting point, though I'd expect to see the same emphasis on virginity across the animal kingdom at that point. Perhaps there is; I'm not an expert . . .
You stated your reasons (36) with such certainty; I was curious to see how far that certainty really extends. I guess I've never seen sex in power or power-related terms, but I suppose it's possible that some do; it's not for me to say what motivates others in such areas. For me, other aspects of that particular human activity have always supplanted any thoughts about power ;-) (and I like children, too, and so see them as a bonus).
46. Autumn said the following at 5:36 PM on Jan 15:
rushncap (#44) wrote You, like many others on this board, immediately assume that because I know it means I care, negatively.
You presume too much about what I assume. I would hope that you would care about your partner's friends, family, likes, etc., because they tell you about that person. Same thing here.
However, biologically speaking, a-priori virginity is an iron-clad guarantee that any child born from this union is the product of the 2 people involved. I'm merely providing the biological / evolutionary explanation for why historically virginity has been considered to be important.
I understand, but I disagree. A man can have sex with a virgin, and then she can have sex with a different man. If she gave birth ~9 months later, would anyone know who the father was without testing? (There is actually some interesting science about females mating with multiple males in a short period of time and how the sperm compete with each other, but I digress.)
I do not believe that virginity has always been considered important historically, certainly not to the degree that it has been in the last two hundred years or so. I would surmise that a person's (or any sentient being's) first time would be very emotional precisely because it is the first time and sex necessarily involves intrusion into one's personal space. Any meaning beyond that is informed by societal context.
But I was merely commenting on why I think virginity in general is considered such a hot commodity.
Humans value new things -- new cars, new clothes, new toys. Humans also value sex, some to the point that they consider it sacred. Combine the two and throw in people's projection of how scared/nervous/anxious they were or believe they would be the first time, and you've got a can't-miss product.
47. Tami said the following at 6:01 PM on Jan 15:
I hear that high "bid" and I'm sorrowful because I think about the number of women who could be rescued from human trafficking with that amount.
And here is this young woman, putting herself in this situation for quick monetary gain. Sad.
48. katers said the following at 8:07 PM on Jan 15:
So this $3.7 million is just for one night? Then she goes on her way with her check and he has to leave her alone? I don't think so...I've seen people demand a lot more of others for a lot less. That's what makes it sad; the idea that she would even be willing to accept cold, hard cash (the falling American dollar, no less) for something that most people today at least demand some semblance of a relationship for, and for which God demands a lifelong covenant which serves as a microcosm of his love for his people. I'd say she's getting a raw deal and will pay dearly in the level of disconnectedness it will cause in her feelings, her family, with this man, any potential (would-be) therapy clients, and really anyone who watches the evening news and decides to shun her in their hearts because of it. Sounds like she needs love, and though it sounds absurdly obvious, this would not be the best way to get it.
It would make me really happy if it were all a hoax, or maybe if some man pulls a Hosea and brings her into his home, pays for her college, and attempts to love her well. Perhaps God will heal her through someone like that.
49. Trevor Dolby said the following at 5:42 AM on Jan 16:
Autumn (46): A lot of cultures have valued virginity in the past - think of Aisha, wife of Mohammed, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and all the Old Testament references to virginity and the stoning to death of the unchaste.
Clearly, opinions can differ on whether or not such cultures were right to place such emphasis on this area, but they certainly did.
50. Sarah P. said the following at 8:17 AM on Jan 16:
I think katers (#48) has a neat thought. I wonder if it would be possible to offer to get this girl the money she needs, maybe in exchange for community service or some such?
51. Drew said the following at 9:40 AM on Jan 16:
It is sad to see this but it is no surprise for me, at least. I went to college and there were girls that were tying knots on a string each night every time they made out with a new guy. There are shows online as someone above mention that deal with sex in such a flippant manner that I know little kids don't really even think of it as being wrong.
It's funny, someone above mentioned that she would like to know who didn't pull this girl in close and say I love you and you are a cherished Daughter of God. There was another poster that said that this young girl had a "good" idea of how to get what she wanted (money for her tuition). I agree it is totally wrong, but it is a smart idea. It is sad to see that our social ethics are so demoralized. I know that so many of even my non-Christian friends would be surprised at an action like this. I know that all my friends at church would be.
I think that the biggest thing we have to teach our children and the little ones that we deal with is what is right and what is wrong. My guess is that this young lady is loved and she knows it (I could be wrong with that assumption). But that she sees what she wants and knows how to get it. I feel that while parents need to tell their kids they love them, and teach them about God being their heavenly father, they also need to teach them right and wrong and show them Scripture that explains what God's feelings are toward something like this.
Only getting back to Scripture, shielding ourselves from c*** on TV, movies, the web etc. will help us bring back a society that is so degraded.
Because of that I will continue to pray for this girl and her sister, but most importantly for the parents raising the children of today.
52. TINA said the following at 4:13 PM on Jan 16:
Father God I just thank you now for Natalie and that your divine purpose will be unfolded I stand in the gap for this women along with many other believers that you will put labors in her path and work this situation out for your glory and good In Jesus mighty name AMEN
53. Christina (in green) said the following at 5:15 PM on Jan 16:
and all the Old Testament references to virginity and the stoning to death of the unchaste
Travis,
I think Autumn had a valid point. After all, when did God require people to marry virgins?
The only ones were the priests.
54. Trevor Dolby said the following at 5:30 AM on Jan 19:
Christina (in green) (53): Autumn had stated (46) 'I do not believe that virginity has always been considered important historically, certainly not to the degree that it has been in the last two hundred years or so' and I was suggesting that it goes back a bit further than that. It's the importance question I was thinking of . . .
There are whole passages to do with this sort of thing in the Old Testament; one example is here:
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Deuteronomy 22:13-21;&version=31;
but there are others. Also, the Islamic world seems in general to have placed a lot of emphasis on this issue for a long time (1400 years or so), and I vaguely recall an article a couple of years ago about a scandal in India, where only 75% or brides were virgins, so it seems to extend to Hinduism as well.
Anyway, Autumn's point about presumption of paternity and so on makes sense :)
55. Charlotte C. said the following at 7:24 AM on Jan 20:
This is so grevious to hear.
I can't believe.
I think about society today and what young people are doing. They think there is 'truth & rights' in pre-martial sex. It's idolized to the point where our view of society is skewed. What can we do in a society like this? I am so saddened this woman has become a victim of Satan's lies.
What are the Christians doing? There are young Christians out there doing the same thing. Why aren't there Christians -- knowing in their right mind that it's all wrong -- helping these young minds? Why has everyone become 'Well, it has nothing to do with me.. if I try to help out I'd be crossing your rights' thing?
We should live in conviction. We should do the right thing and rebuke one another in love when someone is doing the wrong thing (according to the Word) and pray for one another. And we should accept it if society hates us for being 'right in Christ'.
Jesus said that the ones who love him won't always have it easy. Let's do the right thing and ask God for strength to overcome the world. God, will strengthen us and protect us from our enemies.
Let us Christians make a difference. Some people won't listen but there are some out there who will. We need to reach those people and bring their lives back to Christ.