Modern Worship: All About Me
by Thomas Jeffries on 01/28/2009 at 2:06 PM
It happened again on recent Sunday. I was in church -- a congregation I've faithfully and contentedly attended for nearly a decade now -- and as we sang several songs of worship, I couldn't help but think of the book "In Christ Alone" by Sinclair Ferguson. In the foreword, the Rev. Alistair Begg writes about three things that concern him when it comes to the present generation of Christians.
First, Begg describes his experiences addressing students at Christian colleges across the country. "Their enthusiasm and creativity spur me on," he writes, "but an accompanying uncertainty and lack of definition in basic Christian doctrine are causes for genuine concern. Some cannot, for example, explain why Mormonism is not Christian because they are unsure of the doctrine of the Trinity. Many appear to be uncertain about the exclusive claims of Jesus" (especially considering what Begg calls "the prevailing emphasis on ecology and poverty").
Second, Begg considers the contemporary believer's favored reading material. "Books on self-improvement and 'how-to' texts on all matters earthly sell in abundance. We are reading about our bodies to the neglect of our souls ..."
Finally, Begg laments what he calls the loss of focus on the Gospel in our songs:
"This is no comment on musical styles and tastes, but simply an observation about the lyrical content of much that is being sung in churches today. In many cases, congregations unwittingly have begun to sing about themselves and how they are feeling rather than about God and His glory."
Sometimes I wish I had never read Begg's words, because that morning in church I could not get them out of my mind. I saw very clearly that he was right, that many evangelicals today have unwittingly embraced songs about themselves at the expense of those focusing their gaze upon Him.
Now, I want to make it clear that the church I attend is not overly "contemporary" or "seeker-sensitive" or any of the other words used to describe congregations that seem to favor (forgive the cliche') style over substance. No, my fellowship is known for its committment to expositional, systematic, verse-by-verse teaching. It's simply the case that we sing many of the same worship songs as thousands of other churches, and that the same theological vagueness Rev. Begg sees in Christian students and books is also apparent in our songs.
So what, then, is the antidote? Part of the answer, Begg concludes, is the need to consistently focus on Christ, the author and finisher of our faith.
"We are helped in the process by the work of Gospel-saturated hymn writers. Over the centuries, Isaac Watts, John Newton, William Cowper, and many others provided the church with biblical theology in memorable melodic form. Today, men such as Keith Getty and Stuart Townend are doing the same with compositions such as their contemporary hymn that shares its title with this book: 'In Christ Alone.' We should be encouraged by the fact that 'In Christ Alone' has become something of an anthem for the church in the first decade of this century. As Alex Motyer has rightly observed, 'When truth gets into a hymnbook, it becomes the confident possession of the whole church.' Perhaps all that is necessary to expose the shallowness of our songs and to cause us to praise God as we ought is for pastors and poets and musicians to drink from the same fountain. Then biblical exposition will issue in song and our hymns will be full of the Gospel."
In Christ alone my hope is found;
He is my light, my strength, my song;
This cornerstone, this solid ground,
Firm through the fiercest drought and storm.
What heights of love, what depths of peace,
When fears are stilled, when strivings cease!
My comforter, my all in all --
Here in the love of Christ I stand.
1. Christina (in green) said the following at 2:39 PM on Jan 28:
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Wow.
Lol. I have several blog posts on this subject.
I agree with Begg - its not the musical style that bothers me, its the lyrics.
I got to a point once where I realized that those lyrics were having an adverse effect on how I viewed Christ. He wasn't God and King and Lord and AWE inspiring anymore. He was my best friend, lover of my soul, just someone I can be comfy with.
He wasn't too big to comprehend...he was someone I understood - which wasn't right.
And though the familiarity and comfort with Him has its place, not at the cost of reverence.
2. Ashley Harris said the following at 2:40 PM on Jan 28:
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Thanks for this Thomas. I cannot tell you how often I have this conversation over lunch after church. (And it's not always about the same church either!)
How do we, as a generation, confront the lack of gospel-centered-ness in our songs without being critical of our churches?
3. Kevin said the following at 2:54 PM on Jan 28:
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Totally! I've noticed this for years. Churches I've been to call it worship to sing things like, "I'M broken", "I'M lost", "I seek you", "I lift MY hands", "I lift you up", etc. Me me me. Let me sing about what I do with MY christian life. Let me tell God (or more importantly the people in the chairs next to me) how much I do for Him. After all, I'm here to show God that I'm serious about this Christianity stuff.
This was exactly why when I was a Christian, about the only contemporary Christian music I could stand to listen to was Ever Stays Red. (I'm not promoting, I'm just being honest). Their's is the only modern rock-ish music I have ever heard that actually qualified as REAL worship in my book. I actually saw them in concert once (there was only about 20 or so people there) and it felt like a REAL worship service rather than a concert.
Add to that, outside of their music they led lives full of humble servitude (I say humble because you almost have to stalk them to find out what else they do outside of playing music).
But anyway...yea, um,... I side with this blog post.
4. Texas Craig said the following at 3:03 PM on Jan 28:
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I understand the concern about some modern day worship songs, but my concern is not necessarily over their vagueness on telling the gospel fully, but rather on their lack of telling much of anything.
But, having said that, I absolutely am moved to intimacy with God through some modern worship songs that others may find to be empty. For example, the music of the David Crowder Band speaks to my heart and connects me to God in ways many other types of music cannot. I find nothing unbiblical in the songs, so I am not concerned if they are not as full of "biblical information" as other songs. To me, music should (1) honor God; and (2) help us connect emotionally with God.
We have books and prayer time and bible study groups and many other tools to help us learn. Music is more about helping us praise God and connect with Him, not teach us timeless truths. Others may disagree with that, and may believe that music should be more. But, in so doing, they should at least be charitable in recognizing that is more a matter of personal opinion than hard, biblical truth.
To me, many of the reasons that many young people are not sold out more for God or are rejecting more traditional churches is because they see too often that the more traditional churches are filled with people who claim to love Christ, but don't show any semblance of real sacrificial following in their lives. People who will say "all my money is God's and I am just His steward" who then go out and spend most of it on themselves, to buy themselves $400,000 and $500,000 houses. Many young people should rightfully say "is this really what Christ meant when He said take up your cross and follow me?" Is this really what life-changing faith is all about - going to church, sending my kids to private school, developing a nice little clique with my other Christian bible study friends, and focusing on enjoying my life as much as possible?
We need more pastors who are willing to challenge the status quo of many churches and speak hard truth to people, while at the same time teaching fundamentals of the faith. Pastors who value action as much as knowledge, and who are not worried about running people off with challenging words--and who live it with their own lives as well. I am convinced that many young people who genuinely want to follow Christ will be drawn to true examples of sacrificial living for Christ.
So, while I understand the concern over the emptiness of worship songs, I think that the real problem is much greater. Having songs with great words will do nothing if the people singing them are more concerned about themselves and their own comfort than about spreading the gospel and taking up their cross daily.
5. Caroline said the following at 3:11 PM on Jan 28:
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Thanks Thomas, for this excellent post.
In Christ Alone is one of my all-time favourite hymns; it holds such power in its lyrics and serves as a great counterpoint to weak "I love you, I love you" worship chorus songs.
6. Brendan said the following at 3:12 PM on Jan 28:
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A friend and I were talking about this subject the other day. She was talking about how she couldn't stand the song "Friend of God" ("I know God calls us friend, but it's not theologically important enough to warrant a seven minute song!"). I laughed. "I am a friend of God, He calls me friend" is certainly no "our helper he amidst the flood of mortal ills prevailing."
I responded by talking about the song "Made to Worship." I like the song when I'm listening to the CD, but in a worship set? "You and I are made to worship, you and I..." We're not even singing to God! That's like singing a love song about your significant other to your boss!
It's just interesting to see how Christians (myself included) can go into auto-pilot and raise our hands and close our eyes and belt our guts out, while we don't always know what we're saying when we sing.
There was one song with a line "You alone captivate my every thought," and I was was never really able to sing that with a clear conscience because my mind is prone to wander, and while I would love for God to captive my every thought, I do have some thoughts that are captivated by other things.
Know what you're singing, folks!
7. Kate said the following at 3:19 PM on Jan 28:
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Ashley in #2:
One thing I like to see is "remixes" of old Hymns that are more upbeat and congruent with current musical preferences...
Sometimes when songs like "Victory in Jesus" are sung like a dirge, it's sure hard to pay attention... and of course misses the spirit of joy in salvation that is conveyed in this song!
In some ways I think this "misplaying" of old solid hymns can be as much of a problem as the emotional "Jesus as my boyfriend" or "I'm feeling so enraptured" kinds of songs.
As a generation, how do we confront this? I choose not to attend churches that have these types of songs as a prominent focus in worship. I think it is wise for church members and those in charge of music selection to be intentional about choosing songs that are Scripturally meaningful as well as accurate.
Perhaps if a beloved tune contains inappropriate lyrics, people should write new lyrics for it!
8. Christina (in green) said the following at 3:19 PM on Jan 28:
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Ashley (#2),
Sometimes they don't really realize it.
Songs are songs, on occasion...I've noticed at least in my churches more often than not. I remember when the songs chosen actually went with the readings and the sermon topic!
Encourage your worship leaders to invest in music that has more meaningful lyrics! They usually pick the songs they do because they believe the congregation likes them (and they do). But there are songs out there that are becoming more Christ-centered...and still have that contemporary feel. If your church gravitates towards modern worship music, start encouraging different worship songs.
Most churches sponsor their worship leaders to attend worship conferences where they represent your church at a convention (I'm sure Ted can back this up). They get to be led in worship by the guys that wrote the songs you sing in Church and sometimes attend seminars led by these people. As your church becomes aware of their congregation's feelings on the lyrical content, it can trickle up to the people writing the songs.
I know WorshipTogether does this...
Some of them have already picked up on this. More and more songs are either revolving around actual scripture or (if not on scripture), God's awesomeness...I've noticed this trend in recent songs on the radio.
Churches just have yet to pick them up.
However, if you have a strongly contemporary feel to your church, suggesting classic hymns may be more difficult to do. Convincing a church to change style (or even combine styles) is much more difficult than suggesting songs in the accepted style of the church.
A couple artists where I've noticed songs breaking the "ME ME ME" trend are Aaron Shust and Laura Story. Not sure if its in all their songs, but look at the lyrics of some of them and look for a focus on Christ and what he has done for us rather than on us and what we are doing for him (or feeling).
9. mary kate said the following at 3:26 PM on Jan 28:
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yes, good points. but i like to think that no person or generation of people is perfect, and i think of all the amazing life change, growth, and total transformation i have seen amongst people at my 'seeker oriented megachurch' and i'm like, yeah, ok. not gonna worry too much.
10. Collin said the following at 3:59 PM on Jan 28:
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This is definitely a hot topic these days! For a while I found myself really concerned with all the "new, shallow worship music" being produced and sang in my mega-church. But as I took individual songs and scrutinized them I realized that they were all based almost 100% on scripture. I mean, if you take the time to read the Psalms, which I imagine are a great place to start, they are full of the "I" and "Me" language that holier critics like to target. I wonder if they would be saying the same thing about David if he were writing worship songs today...
"Oh Lord my God, I take refuge in you."
"Remember me, O Lord when you show favor to your people."
"I will tell of His great deeds from one generation to the next."
"Lord, be merciful to me."
"My heart finds rest in God alone."
It seems to me that to David, a pretty tight worship leader in my opinion, worship music was all about praising God's greatness AND about explaining his own personal response to that greatness.
The Bible portrays tons of different lyrical styles of worship, and I think there is a place for each and every one. Some Psalms exclusively describe the author's emotions, as he lays them before the Lord. Some ignore the author completely, choosing instead to focus 100% on God's sweetness.
I think its better to avoid sitting in the critic's chair, and instead be thankful for the many types of worship music being produced by people with hearts on fire for Jesus!
However, we constantly need to check our own hearts for the wrong motives or mindsets while we worship.
11. k. said the following at 3:59 PM on Jan 28:
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I love Begg! He spoke at my college, ages ago. I still have a CD with his messages on it.
As for the lyrics, they don't really bother me, although I do sometimes get tired of singing the same refrain over and over. Like a lot of other things, songs have trends and fashions -- but sooner or later the pendulum will swing, and we'll have to find something different to complain about. :)
12. Dan said the following at 4:03 PM on Jan 28:
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To Kevin (#3):
If you look at the Psalms and what worship is (reflecting God's glory and worth back to Him), I think it's totally appropriate to talk about our response to a God so powerful and mighty and our recognition that we are not. But, I agree with this post that it must be more than feelings or style and the songs must give us a deeper and doctrinally sound picture of who God is.
I also am inclined to agree in part with #9. I feel like each generation swings back and forth across the spectrum when it comes to long held beliefs. Our parents (at least mine and most of the elders of my church) understand better than most of my generation just what it means to be quiet before God in worship out of reverance and honor. The flippancy of my generation in worship terrifies me sometimes. However, my generation in reaction to the previous generation has also grabbed onto something that I like as well, an idea from Psalm 98: "4Shout joyfully to the Lord, all the earth; Break forth and sing for joy and sing praises. 5 Sing praises to the Lord with the lyre, With the lyre and the sound of melody. 6 With trumpets and the sound of the horn, Shout joyfully before the King, the Lord." I don't get that image from most of the hymn-sings I've been to. But again, I am NOT calling out hymns, because I've come to love them. I just think that if we can pick songs that refuse to sacrifice content style will matter less as we find a medium between quiet and reverent and crying out for joy with all our hearts.
13. tmd said the following at 4:58 PM on Jan 28:
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Talk about kicking a dead horse when it's down. Is there any reason to keep posting on this subject when countless others do the same? And when we hear about this kind of thing from friends and family all too often?
On one hand, the younger generation is responsible for their lack of understanding of the faith. But on the other, greater hand, the older generation is more responsible for how they've raised their posterity and passed the faith on.
14. Collin said the following at 5:10 PM on Jan 28:
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Sorry! ...I shouldn't have included the snide little "holier" comment in my post above. Definitely wasn't a kind or accurate thing to say, and I don't want to be sarcastic. I know people have legitimate concerns and those are valid. Thanks!
15. Al said the following at 5:12 PM on Jan 28:
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I totally get the concern about vapid praise and worship songs deficient in content and not necessarily rooted in scripture, that are often me-focused and sound like "Jesus is my boyfriend/girlfriend" songs. So I agree it's central to be singing about God as He is and the many ways that God is good, even apart from ourselves.
However, it is also extremely important that worshippers connect with His goodness, and if His goodness is real in their lives, it is unavoidable that His goodness will be a personal experience-- and will inevitably be expressed by an admission of one's feeling, what will be a lot of "me" language.
Like others have said, the Psalms themselves not only declare God's glory, but also the psalmists response to them. Though loud, personal declarations sometimes comes across as presumptuous to me, and I tend to be suspicious of them partly because of my own skewed understanding of humility, bold personal declarations of faith, adoration, action, and commitment are very much a part of the Psalms.
When the psalmist declared that he would declare God's praise and fulfill his commitments in the midst of the assembly, looking a little like he was placing his own response to God on display, I wonder if at least a few eyebrows were raised.
Sometimes Me songs are grating to sing because they seem dangerously self-centered. I have to admit that other times songs with a lot of Me content are difficult to sing simply because I cannot worship with the depth of feeling and authenticity they require, regardless of how saccharine and corny the lyrics are. Sometimes, it's easier to avoid Me songs and sing about God removed apart from ourselves. It makes it easier to avoid worshipping God with who I am.
Music exists simply for emotions sake-- it really has no other purpose by itself. When music is paired with true lyrics, we feel the right way about the right things. When it is paired with scriptural truth in praise and worship, it serves not only to communicate and teach, but allow us to viscerally "taste and see that the Lord is good."
In the end, I believe we are best fed with a balanced diet of old songs and new songs. And I believe God is better glorified with songs that both declare His goodness mindless of ourselves, as well as songs about the ways we have tasted that goodness through, well... our feelings.
16. Leah said the following at 6:10 PM on Jan 28:
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I make the following comments with the full understanding that they are generalisations to which there are probably many exceptions, but this is how things generally tend to be in Australian churches.
Conservative evangelical churches, it appears, are fully aware of this trend of contemporary worship songs being 'me' focussed. Pentecostal churches (who may or may not be aware of it) tend to sing (and record, and sell) most of the 'me' focussed worship songs currently in circulation. It's for this reason that many of the 'popular', 'contemporary' worship songs get shunned by the more conservative evangelical churches. Fortunately, there is one particular company which has been producing excellent theologically sound contemporary worship songs. They get a lot of custom from aforementioned evangelical churches.
Whenever our church does sing a 'me' focused worship song, it actually tends to be the younger generation who takes a stab at it for its bad theology.
I think Collin (10) is correct in pointing out that some songs involving self do have a place. We should celebrate how God's grace and mercy affects us. But some go beyond that to simply be singing about 'me' and not what God has to do with it.
17. Kate (who is applying to law school!) said the following at 8:25 PM on Jan 28:
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Modern worship music never really resonated with me. But than my church never used it so my knowledge of CCM and the like is practically nil. But this post does make a good point. What I have heard always sounds more like love songs. I've been listening to a collection of traditional Shaker music lately and it's really moving. If anyone is curious it's by the Enfield Shaker Singers. It's very simple, just voices in simple, beautiful harmonies. No accompanying music.
18. Charlotte C. said the following at 10:33 PM on Jan 28:
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Yes I agree with this post LOL!
I thought I was the only one who felt like this and I never really got to talk about this topic to anyone (because I was mostly scared that I'd be shunned lol)
Some songs really don't move me. Especially the ones that make 'Jesus' sound like a friend (not really moving for me).
And there are songs that they call CCMs which are so vague in their lyrics that you could call it pop music that's just about love between two people.
I don't know what others would think but to be honest, I like the traditional worship songs better.
19. BDB said the following at 10:45 PM on Jan 28:
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Every time our worship team does a hymn (Amazing Grace seems to be trendy again) I fill out a little bulletin tear-off to encourage them!
20. AutumnRN said the following at 12:30 AM on Jan 29:
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I would love to read/hear more about the exclusive claims of Jesus and how they put the "prevailing emphasis of ecology and poverty" into their proper context...
21. Matthew said the following at 6:33 AM on Jan 29:
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Let me agree with #7 and others that I love groups like Indelible Grace that are giving new life to old hymns with great music!
I personally have found that balancing old and new songs works very, very well. My church usually sings, per service, at least one song written in the last 10 years, one song written from 10-50 years ago, and one song that's at least a hundred years old. It could be better, but there's also the element of the African-American tradition in play there (where, rather than 35 different good theological thoughts in one hymn, there is one good theological thought that is taken on, repeated, chewed on, and explored.)
22. Charity said the following at 9:02 AM on Jan 29:
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To Collin (10)
I think that I probably would have been in initial agreement with the post if your comment hadn't reminded me of the incredible variance in the Psalms. You're right! Not only do the Psalmists praise God's greatness, glory and love- they also grieve over tragedy, rail against God's enemies, express frustrations, call nations to His temple and offer blessings to the congregation. I'm not a big fan of endless repetition or ballads that seem so much like love songs that they're almost creepy, but I recognize that this is just my personal preference. The Psalms are evidence of the beautiful diversity of personality and worship that are found in God and His people. Thanks for the reminder!
23. Julia said the following at 9:22 AM on Jan 29:
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I'm reminded by this post that worship is not only the act of singing songs to God. Worship is the act of submitting oneself to God and marvelling at his majesty and his unending love towards us.
I agree with the poster who noted that the Psalms give us a good template for worship in the corporate sense. We reflect on the attributes of God, giving him glory. We give thanks for all the good He has done for us. We meditate upon the law. We acknowledge our feelings (both positive and negative) and we submit them to God. We humbly bring our requests before God. We rejoice!
We should worship with every thought, every act, and every word that leaves our mouth. What is the sacrifice that the LORD desires? To do justice, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with GOD. To care for the poor - the orphan and the widow.
Ultimately, God is more concerned with the state of our heart than with the grand theology of our songs - not that there is anything wrong with grand theology. I have seen too many churches torn apart by bickering over musical style and the hymn vs. chorus debate. Worship should draw us in unity towards our King, not pull us apart.
24. Ashley Harris said the following at 9:22 AM on Jan 29:
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Collin #10
Your comment about the Psalms has got me thinking. Glad you brought up that point!
BDB #19
Have you talked about tearing off encouragements from the bulletin before? That sounds vaguely familiar.
25. Dan Gill said the following at 9:27 AM on Jan 29:
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Collin, I thought the same thing when I read this post. Certainly we need sound theology in worship, but most of the songs that have "I" or "Me" in them are actually about what God is doing with me or about what I have come to do - to worship.
One thing that bothers me is repeating the same thing over, and over, and over in song. I think I get the point by the third repitition. This may be just my personal preference.
26. Rachael said the following at 10:21 AM on Jan 29:
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I value songs that include doctrine and that focus on God/Christ and that aren't overly repetitive or that contain lyrics I find empty or potentially untrue for my heart.
However, along somewhat a similar train of thought as the last sentence of comment #4, we should remember there's a lot more to the Christian life than good words and good doctrine, and that comes in practicing the faith (what I really need to work on). While it would be wonderful if we frequently got a steady flow of very Christ-centered input, we should also remember that it's even better if we allow the great words to penetrate our hearts, thoughts, and practices.
27. Rachael said the following at 10:33 AM on Jan 29:
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re: Psalms
Interesting to think about the 'me' language in the Psalms.
And on repetition...though I'm not a fan, take a glance at Psalm 136. "His love endures forever" is mentioned 26 times, in each verse...
Perhaps it is good if we try to, perhaps, realize that there is wiggle room in the area of worship and that even seemingly 'empty' songs to some might really be a genuinely worshipful song for another. Just hopefully some/many of the songs at a church would also contain 'substance'.
On the topic of diversity, in relation to other aspects of Christianity...it's very interesting how a crucial concept in Christianity might be incredibly clear and heart-penetrating when presented in a certain way, while to another Christian the heart of that same concept might mean alot or make more sense in another way. In communicating with my mom about this (about specific concepts in our minds), she said something about the Bible being 3-D. It's neat to think about that, how many of the same concepts in the Bible are presented in different ways. It's really cool.
It would be so interesting to document all the instances of conversion or preaching of conversion in the New Testament. Yes, it is by grace we are saved through faith. Yes, it is through Christ alone. But there is a variety of ways in which people came to the point of conversion or in which conversion/salvation is explained...
28. An Inept SInger said the following at 12:43 PM on Jan 29:
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I grew up in a church where the newest song we ever sang was circa 1930 and now attend a church that sings modern songs (my grandmother thinks any church with drums must be a cult!). I love the old hymns for their depth and poetry though I must admit some of them are a little slow or tedious but you cannot beat the message. Of course I cannot sing half the new worship songs because they do not lend themselves well to congregational singing. It also drives me nuts to sing on and on and say absolutely nothing. We need more songs with theological depth rather than this vast, happy sounding kiddie pool in which we seem to be splashing. 18 choruses of "God loves me la la la..." gets a little tiresome. If more modern songs could be like "In Christ Alone" I would be very happy. Of course this just echoes our aching need to be more deep theologically in every other aspect of our faith (prayer life, Biblical knowledge, living everyday life). American culture is shallow to begin with and this is spilling over into our faith! How many committed christians actually understand the Bible? I would love to see an intellectual reformation of the faith (not a liberal interpretation of theology but people actually digging deep and understanding what the Bible has to say). We need more C. S. Lewises and Ravi Zaccharauses (I know I misspelled that). Getting all warm, fuzzy, and emotional with God is all well and good but it is also important that we actually understand why He is so great and why we believe what we do.
29. Dan Gill said the following at 12:47 PM on Jan 29:
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"And on repetition...though I'm not a fan, take a glance at Psalm 136. "His love endures forever" is mentioned 26 times, in each verse..."
That, of course, is a responsive reading or chant, and it's a little different . . . although it would annoy me too, after a while.
30. BDB said the following at 12:57 PM on Jan 29:
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Ashley Harris (#24) wrote:
>>Have you talked about tearing off encouragements from the bulletin before? That sounds vaguely familiar.<<
Probably. I might have thought of the idea during one of the previous discussions on worship music.
Just the other day I heard one of our CCW "worship" songs being sung on a non-Christian station. But it wasn't being sung as a worship song in this context. Eewww...
31. Thomas Jeffries said the following at 1:39 PM on Jan 29:
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I would like to clarify that I never intended this discussion to focus on "new vs. old" when it comes to worship music. I'm not someone who advocates for all hymns, all the time; in fact, I often enjoy listening to what many Christians would refer to as the more extreme end of the rock music spectrum.
Moreover, the song "In Christ Alone" that Rev. Begg endorses was written just eight or nine years ago, not in the 1800s. The issue at hand is not whether a worship song has a contemporary sound/style, but rather the substance of the lyrics. As one of my friends says, does the selection promote heartfelt worship or is it just another "Jesus is my boyfriend" song?
32. Brian Ramsey said the following at 1:54 PM on Jan 29:
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Rachel (#27)
That is a great point you make regarding repetition. I find myself caught in the tension between repetition of key phrases that I can say to God with passion over and over, and the desire to be challenged with different phrases that don't come quite so easily at first.
Collin (#10)
Thank you for your point. It is ok for the words I and Me to be in worship, as long as I am not merely thinking of myself and definitely not glorifying myself.
Worship is polarized often. I feel that this is important discussion, but we must remember that as the body of Christ we strive for unity around Jesus Christ, his glory, and his name. Have the discussion, then agree to disagree on small points because we have a great task to reach out to non-believers and introduce them to Him! A non-believer looking onto our interactions should hopefully see healthy discussion, yet unity around the big idea of the Gospel.
In worship, I ask myself some key questions:
Who is God?
Who am I?
Do I love Him? Why?
33. Tami said the following at 2:06 PM on Jan 29:
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Many people are writing good contemporary songs with deep truths, such as "How Deep The Father's Love For Us." Another good one -- "Wonderful, Merciful Savior." To my mind, these songs present both the truth of who God is and the truth of who we are, and thus are very powerful in terms of engaging hearts and minds in honest worship.
I've also heard some very simple praise songs become quite gorgeous when they're re-orchestrated. My church did an acapella version of "My All in All" that was very beautiful -- multiple parts, complicated arrangement... turned a simple song from my youth-group days into something really beautiful.
34. Elizabeth H. said the following at 3:27 PM on Jan 29:
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Wow! I was going to add my own worship music rant until I read the original post a little more closely. Turns out it's not all about evaluating praise songs, but about a general departure from the Gospel.
I would add that it's not always about me-centered vs. God-centered but about people-centered in general vs. God-centered. This is similar to the "seeker-sensitive" problem. Worship leaders make a lot of sacrifices to make worship enjoyable for all, but teaching moments can end up being neglected. One solution is to have a series of teachings on worship that will help one prepare his/her heart. That way the pressure is not as much on the worship team to "perform" but is more dependent on readiness of hearts. I think a lot of it simply depends on spiritual maturity.
35. Rachael said the following at 4:06 PM on Jan 29:
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Wow, I had never considered the possibility that the Bible might have responsive readings.
I'm not really 100% into responsive readings in churches, though I'm not against them (on a personal level) if I mean and think about what I say. The church I last regularly attended (and absolutely loved; it could very well be my favorite church ever of all those I have regularly attended) did have responsive stuff with the congregation.
One thing that got me was when, during the infant baptisms (for which, I don't personally see substantial Biblical support) there, the congregation would respond to something all together...and I think in there they were making a commitment, maybe even using the words "I promise"...
I'm over-sensitive about language, though (and consequently use "I think", "probably", etc. way too much), so that may be one reason I noticed...
Again, I loved the church, and I loved the music -- it was so amazing -lyrically rich and beautifully played. But sometimes I'd notice stuff in the responsive parts, like what I noticed above, and also another example of something I noticed was when the people said what they believed (a catechism, I think), where they said Jesus descended into hell (during the 3 days). I don't thoroughly understand that part of Scripture, so, probably if I was thinking I would keep my mouth shut on that part....
I guess if there is responsive stuff in a church I'd hope most or all of it would be purely Scriptural and not usually of a committal/promising nature...
36. Collin said the following at 4:32 PM on Jan 29:
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In response to the discussion on repetitive songs...have you ever tried meditating on one scripture verse, or idea, or and attribute or promise of God for a long, long time, and asked the Holy Spirit to plant it deep in your heart and transform you? I have found this very powerful, sometimes breaking down verses to the single word.
The same can be done while we sing...so maybe instead of being bored with the repetition, (as I can definitely relate with), we should close our eyes and pray that the Spirit would teach us on a deeper level on that theme. Who knows what God might show us, or how we might glorify Him in that moment!
37. Bek said the following at 5:02 PM on Jan 29:
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I definately agree with the idea that at times 'worship' can become very "me" focussed, but I don't think it's fair to say that every time a song talks about how "I" feel it's not God focussed. For example, one song I really like includes the lyrics:
"God you are amazing, God you are amazing, God you are amazing, You love someone like me"
Now I don't think every song should be exactly like this. It's simple, it's not got lots of long words and history. But it comes from a grateful heart, overawed at this amazing God who loves a sinner who doesn't deserve His grace. It is theologically deep if lyrically simple.
Also, re #6, you say that you know God calls us friend but that's not theologically important enough for a 7 minute song. That just doesn't ring true to me. God is who He is. I want to explore the WHOLE of God's character in worship. Different traditions have different parts that they focus on, but being truly Biblical in worship should surely include all aspects of His character?
Having said all that - I am also a huge fan of the lyrically intense songs. I like the mix and get frustrated with too much or not enough of either. Also, please, please, if you (not aimed at anyone in particular) really like the more lyrically complex songs, sing them like you mean them.
Above all, worship God!
38. SarahC said the following at 5:32 PM on Jan 29:
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I like this post...
I've started attending a new church whose band sounds just like the radio, and I've been to other churches and felt the same way. I love contemporary worship, don't get me wrong! I just feel that churches today have gotten so caught up in "how they sing it" that in service it has to be the same way, without freedom for musical talent and innovation with which to glorify God in a "new" way.
Additionally, I fear people in my generation of Christians do not understand what "worship" is. Back in youth group, we had a series on the 7 Hebrew positions or types of worship listed in the Old Testament, including standing, raising hands, singing, playing instruments, clapping, laying prostrate, and silence (if I remember correctly). I'm disappointed that this teaching isn't present in many modern seeker-friendly churches. We clap after the songs because the band was good. But, last I checked, we were supposed to be worshiping God. HE is the foundation for why we have music in services at all!
39. Cassandra said the following at 6:20 PM on Jan 29:
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Excellent post! Interesting to see so many people who echo my sentiments regarding contemporary worship music, or as one pastor termed it: "prom songs to Jesus" – or simple, repetitive melodies "four chords for the Lord." Even as a woman I long for the powerful music and imagery of the old hymns, or the new hymns such as "In Christ Alone" mentioned above. There's some contemporary songs I love, but I still miss hymns (what I grew up with) and enjoy even older sacred music.
There's this one David Crowder song that bugs me everytime we sing it in church (don't mean to knock him because I know he's got a lot of other great songs) but here goes:
//You make everything glorious... and I am yours... what does that make me?//
There's something about that that doesn't sit right with me theologically.
40. Jeremy said the following at 10:05 PM on Jan 29:
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"We clap after the songs because the band was good. But, last I checked, we were supposed to be worshiping God."
Amen. Few things bother me in church services as much as the blatant disregard for the true object of worship involved in appluading after a song.
And while I admire the intention of the worship leaders who try to twist it with a cry of "Yeah! Let's praise God with our clapping!", that is the exact opposite of the meaning of applause in any other context. Let's not fool ourselves.
41. Charlotte C. said the following at 2:40 AM on Jan 30:
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#39
LOL. I kinda agree with that.
What kind of message are they trying to convey?
Everytime I come across a song that doesn't sound 'right'. I think for while and wonder.
42. Bek said the following at 2:50 AM on Jan 30:
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Hey Cassandra,
Moving swiftly past the 'even as a woman' comment (?), I wondered if you could explain more about why that David Crowder song doesn't sit right with you theologically? (I've never heard the song before)
Also, I am so in agreement about the 'prom songs to Jesus' thing. I don't mind if songs talk about loving Jesus but sometimes they sound more like a guy/girl love song and that I find a little creepy!
43. Vanessa said the following at 6:59 AM on Jan 30:
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I completely agree with you. I love my church and I love my Music Pastor, but there are a few songs in church that I don't even pretend to sing because I disagree with their lyrics. My mentor's husband said it best, I think, when he made a comment to me in regards to the church we used to attend. He said, "I love my wife and I want everyone to know that I love her, so I will hold her hand or tell her I love her or give her a kiss or hug. However, I don't make love to her in front of an audience to prove how much I love her. It is the same with God. We praise and worship Him corporately, but we are more intimate in our quiet times with Him alone."
My church has literally a hundred different ministries in and around the community, showing God's love and not neglecting our city for the world at large. My pastor preaches truth, balanced between grace and discipline. For all of that, I am truly grateful. And for the most part, the worship songs we sing are extolling God's immeasurable grace and love and protection and bowing before His righteousness and Lordship. THOSE are the songs that I raise my hands and belt out at the top of my lungs "It's the rising up all around, it's the anthem of the Lord's renoun. Holy is the Lord, God Almighty, the earth is filled with His glory."
44. Greg said the following at 7:14 AM on Jan 30:
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Hello folks,
Wanted to add my two cents if you don't mind.
I read with interest what was originally posted in regards to worship. As a former evangelical, I too made the same observations about how the worship seemed "me" centered and emphasized style over substance. Frustrated by this, I was gradually drawn to a more liturgical form of worship that seemed to be less me centered and more focused on God and giving Him the glory. In this search, I discovered a church that has believe it or not, kept the original way of worshipping from the 1 century. My first encounter with this church and her worship blew my mind away. Not only was it not me centered, but extravagently rich in theology and poetry. It was so beautiful I could not forget it after my first encounter. Let me share with you some of the hymns that are commonly use:
"Let us believers praise and worship the Word, Co-eternal with the Father and the Spirit, born of the virgin for our salvation. For He willed to be lifted up on the Cross in the flesh, to endure death, and to raise the dead, by His glorious resurrection."
"Having beheld the resurrection of Christ, let us worship the holy Lord Jesus the only sinless one. We venerate Thy Cross O Christ, and Thy Holy resurrection we praise and glorify. Jesus is risen from the dead as He fortold, granting the world eternal life and great mercy."
"The virgin comes today, to the cave to give birth, effably to bring forth, the Word Eternal. Rejoice O the earth, at the message, with the angels and shepherds give glory, to Him who for our sakes, is born as a little child, He who is from eternity, God!"
"When Thou O Lord was baptized in the Jordan, the worship of the Trinity was made manifest. For the voice of the Father bore witness to Thee, calling Thee His beloved Son. And the spirit in the likeness of a dove, confirmed the truth of His Word. O Christ our God, who has appeared and enlighten the world, glory to Thee."
These hymns are are from the Orthodox Christian Church, which believes itself to be the original Christian Church. I would encourage you to check it out!
45. LouiseinPA said the following at 7:22 AM on Jan 30:
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One thing I really enjoy is that my church's music matches the liturgical calendar/gospel passage for the day. That helps me to fit the themes together and generally insures that the songs have a solid theology/theme underlying them. We also have a responsorial psalm at every service which is nice because it's obviously taken directly from the Bible.
I've found that a lot of non denominational churches then to repeat whatever is "popular" at the time (whether a hymn, modern worship song, etc) because they have fewer constraints on what worship music can be used. this is ok but leads, IMO, to some songs being overplayed.
46. Jen said the following at 7:37 AM on Jan 30:
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Ultimately this isn't about contemporary praise music or traditional hymns. There are hymns that have terrible words that are all 'me, me, me' just like there are recent songs like that too. Songs with good doctrine and theology, ones that reiterate the word of God and impress upon our hearts the need for confession, repentance, and the new life we have in Jesus and the eternal promise of heaven - those songs will LAST.
Sure there are songs that are about God, that glorify God (I'm thinking of songs like Tomlin's "Indescribable") that remind us of our relationship with him, that have their right place in worship. "Friend of God" is similar. Not incredibly rich in theology, but potentially powerful for someone who is new to the family of Christ or has previously felt alienated from God. I see the "jesus is my boyfriend" songs as an attempt to remind people that Jesus is cool and we should like him, and that God really likes us just the way we are (which is theologically untrue). They are the beginning piece for some people. Not sure if that's good or right, but it seems to be how they've operated in churches and in seeker-friendly contexts.
But the songs that move my heart towards sacrifice, devotion, towards "taking up my cross and following Him" and give me hope for the future are not the 'me me me' songs, they are the ones that actually have something worth believing in. And I wish we gave more credit to cynics and seekers that they too can be challenged by Jesus (and rich theology) to give their lives sacrificially, believe, and be set free. I would much rather debrief with a non-Christian the theology of "and as he stands in victory, sins curse has lost its grip on me, for I am his, and he is mine, bought with the precious blood of Christ" (lyrics from "In Christ Alone", written only a few years ago) then just remind them that they are a friend of God. Not to diss the song, but think of their new understanding of Jesus as a result?
47. Alison said the following at 8:20 AM on Jan 30:
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I think there will always be a debate on worship style. I wonder often what worship is like around the world. You know like a group of believes in a village in the middle of the Amazon or a underground church in China? Do you think they sit around and debate hymn vs. praise song? I imagine not. While I have never attended a worship service outside of the United States, I imagine the worship style represents the culture. What matters to God when we worship is what is in our heart. Yes, strong theology is important, but sometimes I think we look past the cross and get wrapped up in "how we worship." I'm just tired of these debates about what church is more "holy." It makes me so frustrated and angry. I also am concerned about those churches that are so focused on the "purity" of their church that they are not concerned about the needs of the seeker. If the seeker does not feel welcomed in your church, where are they going to hear the gospel preached? Are you not concerned if there are not any non-believers attending your church?
Just a thought...
48. Adam said the following at 9:06 AM on Jan 30:
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#39:
I don't see anything wrong with that lyric that you listed there. It sometimes seems like it's considered bad theology to say anything good about man. I think we sometimes gloss over that statement about us being made in God's image. If God is glorious, and His creation reflects that glory, then what does that mean?
As Christians, we have been redeemed and are now perfect in God's eyes. So why is it that we continue to think of ourselves as sinners? Because according to the Bible, if we've been saved by the blood of Jesus, we're not sinners anymore. We're saints. That's what my Bible says.
49. Jeremy said the following at 9:38 AM on Jan 30:
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"If the seeker does not feel welcomed in your church, where are they going to hear the gospel preached? Are you not concerned if there are not any non-believers attending your church?"
I don't think church is the proper forum for evangelism. Church is for the believer -- it is a place to learn and grow, fellowship and connect. As with the early church, some non-believers may observe that and (hopefully) notice a difference, which would lead to questioning, but if church itself becomes about evangelism, where does the worship and discipleship get pushed? Too often with "seeker-oriented" churches, it gets pushed to oblivion, which is the problem many believers have with such.
50. Alison said the following at 10:14 AM on Jan 30:
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Jeremy,
You didn't answer my question. Where then is the proper forum for evangelism? What happens in believer only churches when members move away or die? Does the church just die when new members are not added?
51. Ted Slater said the following at 11:05 AM on Jan 30:
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Thanks, Thomas, for blogging about this. As someone who's been involved in the worship music scene for decades, it resonates strongly with me.
I've written a number of blog posts about this, including "What Makes for Good Worship?" and "Worship Music: For God or For Us?"
52. Jeremy said the following at 11:09 AM on Jan 30:
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Evangelism should happen as part of the everyday life of the believer. At the start of the Great Commission, Jesus says "Go therefore, and make disciples of all nations..." The "go" in that sentence is a participle, so it might be better translated "Going therefore, make disciples...", conveying the idea that whatever we are doing in life, we should be in the process of making disciples.
We should not need the organization of the church to do our evangelism for us. Gathering together to worship, learn, and fellowhip should equip us, in part, to evangelize. This grows the church without sacrificing continuing discipleship.
53. Cassandra said the following at 11:21 AM on Jan 30:
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Hey Bek #42
I didn't explain my woman comment enough, I know. Basically it comes from another issue that's been covered on Boundless about how you don't find as many men in church anymore and the worship music is sometimes blamed, and someone wrote about how stronger imagery and powerful music (like the old hymns) attracted dudes into church. The article didn't address how women feel about contemporary music, but I identified with how men were alleged to feel, hence "even as a woman".
Regarding David Crowder's song (again, nothing against him I just pulled it as an example) I just find it odd that the lyric is alleging that God makes us glorious, when my understanding of the Bible is that we're sinners and that our righteousness is as "filthy rags". We will receive glorified bodies when Jesus returns, but the song is implying that he makes us glorious now. Only God is glorious. Also, it's just weird to me to have a praise song to Jesus end in the word "me".
I don't like prom songs to Jesus, but I have to admit that one of my favorite worship songs was written by Jason Wade (Lifehouse) called "Surface (I'm Falling Deeper)" I think it totally sounds like it was written for his girlfriend! It's really sensual! I can understand why dudes wouldn't want to sing like that to Jesus!!
54. Bek said the following at 12:10 PM on Jan 30:
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#50
I guess evangelism is to be done whilst one is not at church. At work, outside the school gates, in the grocery store, on the street corner...that kinda thing. (Jeremy?)
55. Christina (in green) said the following at 12:15 PM on Jan 30:
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Alison (#49)
If I may take a stab at answering your question -
Members of the church are responsible for evangelism. This is where it gets confusing...
Twila Paris and Casting Crowns put it well in their songs How Beautiful and If We Are the Body.
Where the body parts are, in a whole, for the body (one of the Corinthians - the part about gifts), each member of the body is responsible for reaching out (End of Matthew?) - How beautiful the feet that bring the sound of Good News and the love of the King and If we are the body, why aren't his hands reaching...
Its not the CHURCH as a congregation's job to evangelize, but it is each church member's job to evangelize. You see, its important for those who are already believers to have a place to grow and to learn more and to develop depth in their walk with God. We need to be shepherded by our Pastor...who needs to care for the sheep in his pasture more than he needs to go and find more to bring in...at the expense of a wolf sneaking in the back and running off with one of his other sheep.
56. Dr. Ransom said the following at 12:43 PM on Jan 30:
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To Allison, (no. 50 on the previous page) ...
I'm guessing you may have seen churches like this that wither from the inside because they do not believe in evangelism. But in the fear of that extreme, many churches and church movements unfortunately overcorrect to the far-opposite extreme.
Perhaps I can answer this question? I'll start with a verse from Acts 2?
Notice what the early church was not doing -- making their full focus evangelism. They were breaking bread together, fellowshipping and learning from the apostles, growing in their faith. Those who joined them had already been saved.Throughout the epistles in particular, we find plenty of solid teaching that balances maintaining the integrity and depth of the church while also reaching out to others. Either extreme will not only lead to a dying church, but is un-Biblical.
And let me stress why either extreme will lead to a dying church, with two (commonly occurring) scenarios.
1) A church (likely a small one, perhaps of a "fundamentalist" variety grows stale and begins dying, perhaps because its members are not living truly God-centered vibrant faith and growing in that, or reaching out in Grace and Truth to their neighbors.
But the answer to this, I maintain as found in Scripture, is not to re-create the church into something else in order to bring in more people. The Church, made up of local churches, will grow numerically in God's time, in His plan, and only be truly following His will when it maintains its structural integrity as a body of believers.
Whereas ...
2) A church devotes all its time to making sure non-Christians are comfortable in the church environment. The Sunday service, for example, becomes a catch-all "funnel" for the community, who are then encouraged to get involved with small group studies and such that ostensibly go deeper (as one megachurch pastor once told me).
That church might be turning out converts, but then becomes no longer a church. It has turned into a parachurch organization.
By definition, a real church is made up of existing believers (though of course some "goats" will always be mixed in). I like to think of it in terms of this advertising slogan (accompanied by bright animation):
"Silly rabbit! Church is for Christians!"
With either scenario, a local church dies: either slowly of old age, or by treating itself with so many foreign additions or mutations that it ceases to be the organism it used to be.
None of this should mean that we don't invite non-Christian friends to church, as if it's some exclusive club. But nonbelievers should feel a little out of their element for being there (cf. 1 Corinthians 14, especially 24 and 25).
Yes, the church is an organization, it's even "organized religion." And people like Pastor Mark Dever (Nine Marks Ministries) have written conclusively that if a church's "borders" and membership standards become lax and porous, how can it really be called a "church"?
57. Texas Craig said the following at 1:32 PM on Jan 30:
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Cassandra (#39):
I think that David Crowder song has its basis in Colossians 1. Here are some excerpts from that chapter:
"But now he has reconciled you by Christ's physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation— if you continue in your faith, established and firm, not moved from the hope held out in the gospel. This is the gospel that you heard and that has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven, and of which I, Paul, have become a servant.
To them God has chosen to make known among the Gentiles the glorious riches of this mystery, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory.
We proclaim him, admonishing and teaching everyone with all wisdom, so that we may present everyone perfect in Christ."
We are "holy" and "perfect" in Christ, "without blemish" and Christ in us is the "hope of glory." Now, I understand that some might legitimately say that the Bible is talking about what will happen in the future (i.e., at the time of judgment). That is a reasonable interpretation, but I also think the idea that, once we are in Christ, we have been made perfect (i.e., already) is also a reasonable reading of it.
To me, these passages (and others in scripture) make it clear that God's presence in something makes it glorious. Thus, because we are His (and have His spirit in us), we too are glorious. To me, this is not a praise of us, but rather an encouragement for us to live up to what we have already attained. Sort of a biblical encouraegment intended to follow the "self-fulfilling prophecy" theory. Namely, realize who you are in Christ and, therefore, let your life reflect that.
58. TINA said the following at 10:21 PM on Jan 31:
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OK color me stupid..I'm just not getting this:( there are "me" people, so there are going to be "me" songs..dont by the CD then...if that type of song does nothing for you. What we have to remember, if the song is being sung at church and it does nothing for you that day,but does something for the lady three rows up guess what?that song wasn't for you,it was for her.It wasn't about you that day.I hear what you are all saying and there have been many times my mind has wandered its pretty normal for all of us,but ya know something when it has during a song that just is not totally talking to me, as i'm wandering I see that lady three rows up crying so hard she cant breath calling out to our father,Yes indeed that day was for her. As I seen her cry I began to cry and pray for her,and I am sure i'm not the only one that day who wandered and prayed for her...I love mercy me ,Steven Curtis Chapman,Teddy Turpin..all different styles all speak to my heart,when its a heavy burden spiritual warfare day and things need to move in the spirit that's the day you put Ted Turpin on,when I want to reflect and think Chapman,and when I want to be just hanging puttering around my house yet still fed mercy me..I have reverence for God,that comes first however i am so very glad that he is my Father,lover of my soul, best friend.I love that I can tell him anything all my blah,blah's and he never turns away, best friend i ever had.I tell my husband all the time its God then you baby..and the same for him,God then me.Everything and Everybody is after.
59. Nikki said the following at 11:14 PM on Jan 31:
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I have not read all the comments but I definitely agree with this post. I've been frustrated for a long time at the poor caliber and apparent recklessness of what is so carelessly called 'worship' on the christian radio station and then eventually into our corporate singing in church. I definitely think the lyrics need to be properly focused - and this does NOT mean there needs to be a bible story or theological epiphany in every line, but it does mean the songwriters need to put more thought into their words.
Having said that, I've come to greatly appreciate the songs that speak of God as our lover. Let's not forget he painted himself that way, and paralleled Christ as lover of the bride, the great Husband, throughout Scripture! I used to be irritated at songs that made that connection, thinking they were cheesy and SO superficial, but now, even though many of those songs tend to have mush for words, there is definitely something very right about them. Romance isn't bad! I'm recently engaged to be married and I have so much more clearly seen God's love for me because it is reflected in my wonderful fiancee. Without that human, tangible, physical romantic relationship, I wouldn't understand God as well. The marriage relationship is one of the most divinely significant. Songs that speak of Christ in a romantic sense might be very well tuning in to a very theological channel, if you will. So don't throw them all out right away. :)
60. TINA said the following at 8:37 AM on Feb 1:
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#56Dr.Ransom.....I have always believe in today's time the church is the hospital for the spiritually sick..And we as the body of believers our many things to them,some are the doctors,nurse,some counselor,and some a friend....We are not to become the things of this world,however we are to be seasoned in its changing times.How else will you be the salt and light?Church is the vehicle,the holy spirit is the gas,Jesus does the driving.we are mere passengers on the journey to go out and preach the Gospel...The devil keeps trying to give ya a flat tire,but we must not become flat..
61. Leah said the following at 7:26 PM on Feb 1:
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Rachael (27) said And on repetition...though I'm not a fan, take a glance at Psalm 136. "His love endures forever" is mentioned 26 times, in each verse...
I don't think Dan Gill was referring to songs which repeat a concept several times in the entire song, but rather songs which repeat an exact phrase several times one after the other; eg. "I will sing of your love forever, I will sing of your love forever. I will sing of your love forever, I will sing of your love forever. "
Like Dan said, I get to a point when singing these songs where I think "ok, yeah, I get the point".
Could be wrong, but that was my impression.
Adam (48) - I'd like to see the verses which say just because we've become saints, we're not sinners. Last I checked, Christians still sin. Someone who sins is a sinner.
62. Paul Clutterbuck said the following at 1:23 AM on Feb 2:
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Jen (#46) mentioned Chris Tomlin's song "Indescribable." While the lyrics are very powerful, it's unfortunate that if a worship team overdoes the sforzandos in the chorus (that's the strong emphasis on every third note), it can sound really orgasmic. It's not only words that can be suggestive of sensuality, in my experience.
I would have to agree with Jen on the place of sacrificial motifs though. Reminding us of what Jesus did for us can call out the very best in all of us, men and women alike. Watching Mel Gibson's The Passion of the Christ or Robert Markowitz' Nicholas' Gift can be incredibly inspirational, and not only at Easter; hymns and contemporary music about the Cross can have much the same effect.
The best contemporary music I've heard comes from Steve Green, Brooke Fraser, Hillsong and Passion. Brooke Fraser seems to have imbibed solid Augustinian and Reformed theology, which she presents in a very contemporary and accessible style; her single "Deciphering Me" won an APRA Silver Scroll for most radio airplay (on mostly secular stations) in the first year after its New Zealand release, yet that song and the Albertine album on which it also appeared is as theologically sound as any hymnbook.
Chris Tomlin and Matt Redman from Passion write great songs, though I must say I don't like Redman's gutteral voice. Billy James Foote's "You Are My King" is one of my all-time favourites (especially the Christy Nockels version), almost as good as Charles Wesley's "And Can It Be" on which it appears to be based.
It's been mentioned in comments on this post that men can be turned off by the "love songs to Jesus" stuff. I would have to agree. Jesus wasn't hyper-masculine, but nor was he womanly, and he definitely ain't gay! Men can relate to sacrificial motifs though, the kind of thing that calls something out of them and gives their contribution significance. The way Jesus showed His love to us was by going to the Cross, not smooching and grinding with the women of His day. If only our concept of love could be brought back to the Cross and purified of its sensuality and soppiness! When we celebrate what Jesus has done for us and say we love Him for it, think torture not hugs and kisses.
63. Cassandra said the following at 12:28 PM on Feb 2:
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So as it so happens we sang "You Make Everything Glorious" last night in church, but they had omitted the "What does that make me?" line! No kidding!
I guess I wasn't the only one who thought that was an odd thing to say in a worship song!
64. TINA said the following at 4:04 PM on Feb 2:
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#63~umm from Glory to Glory.."You Make Everything Glorious",we are part of what he has made..."What does that make me?"It makes you glorious in his sight..
65. Jonathan Sarfati, Ph.D. said the following at 7:14 PM on Feb 2:
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Jesus and His Apostles would probably fail many homiletics courses today. They were hardly "seeker sensitive" in the way it is usually understood today. See Revival? What is missing?
66. Jonathan Sarfati, Ph.D. said the following at 8:08 PM on Feb 2:
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Leah (#61), you mean "7-11" songs: 7 words repeated 11 times.
Paul Clutterbuck (#62): I have to wonder about a song that calls God "indescribable" then goes on to describe Him in so many ways ;)
67. Cassandra said the following at 8:26 PM on Feb 2:
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Hi Tina, I don't feel comfortable calling myself "Glorious" because Jesus said "No one is good but God." But I see your and TX Craig's side of it too. Christians tend to split down the middle on what they like to focus on. I feel that the contemporary Christian church focuses too much on self-esteem and not enough on the problem of sin.
The title of the post is "Modern Worship, All About Me" and I pointed out a worship song they sing in my church that ends in the line, "What does that make me?" and I thought it illustrated the author's point.
By the way, I've been enjoying reading your posts, but they would be a lot easier to read if you would use paragraph breaks and regular punctuation instead of ellipses. Not meaning to be snarky, it's just hard to read big blocks of text on screen and I tend to skip over them, but I would like to know what you have to say.
God bless you!
68. TINA said the following at 6:36 AM on Feb 3:
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#67 Hello Cassandra,I understand what you also are saying,however you are not calling yourself glorious as in i am so great in that song,God is calling you glorious,his prize creation,its really giving glory to him..thank you for enjoying my post
I know I need help with my typing lol believe it or not a have improved when I started posting here I did it in all caps,in till i was informed that is considered yelling lol I really had know clue...:O)I dont know if I will ever master the art of it and writing politically correct has always been a struggle for me I just keep running at the mouth which makes the run on sentences and no pharagrah So I Use those dots a lot.I am trying this is the stage I'm at..help lord help:)Blessings to you also. P.S. Thank-you for saying that to me in a nice "fruit of the spirit" way,GENTELNESS loves conduct..pray for me that i get better:o)
69. Leesha said the following at 9:40 PM on Feb 3:
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Begg is right to be critical of modern worship songs that try to standardize the radical message of the gospel. The fact is, the message of the cross isn't always easy to swallow. When we sing praises to God we need to remember He is a God that does not always work according to what we think is best. Worship music that makes it seem like He exists to serve us is not worth singing.
As humans we are inclined to sterilize the message we send in an effort to please everyone. People have an infinite amount of preferences when it comes to worshipping, it is therefore impossible for leaders to please everyone. The lyrics to the songs we worship to should reflect the truth about the God we serve without trying to make the message more marketable.
Regardless of how church leaders handle worship, it is ultimately our responsibility as individual worshippers to remember what we are singing and who we are singing to. It's so easy to be complacent and to simply memorize songs, singing them back without a second thought but that isn't true worship. It is also up to the individual to set aside preferences that are not scripturally based. We cannot choose not to worship to a song simply because we don't like the organ, the drums, or the worship leader. Finally, it is up to the individual to remember that worship is hard when it comes from true humility.
70. Matt said the following at 8:29 AM on Mar 5:
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I was searching for worship goodies and stumbled here. I'm way late, but if I found this..them chances are someone else may. :)
I skipped the tons of posts about evangelism and what not. I perked up when I read the posts about worship.
I'm a youth pastor and have been working with youth for over a decade. There's a rift happening between the old generations and the new generations. It's a rift that has nothing to do with age, but with culture.
The reason you are seeing more songs about who we are in God and songs that involve "me me me" is because of Post Moderism. It's not a bad thing or a good thing. It's...culture! Chances are that if you are 30ish and younger, you are Post Modern or have the influence. I'm 30 and have the influence. I get why we sing about who we are. Post Mod's are VERY self evaluating. It's not that we aren't singing about God, but that we are identifying HOW God changed us and WHO He makes us.
Many make the mistake of saying the music isn't about Jesus. It is. It's a new way...a new culture. Those with heavy in the older cultures have difficulty relating to this new way..this new culture. Not all "me me me" songs are Godly, but sooo many more are that we don't give credit to. I've personally experienced God's presence HEAVILY in the "me me me" songs because the hearts of those singing it..the Post Mod's...they get it. In the end, it isn't about "me me me", but about God. :)
71. Jason said the following at 12:26 AM on Mar 22:
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Great Comments. I think we can learn alot about singing to God through the Psalms. There is a very healthy balance between "God statements" and "Me" statements. David and the other composers are very good about speaking their very real emotions to God (help me, save me), but also recognizing God who God is. Friend, Lord, King, Lover, etc. We must not neglect songs that have real human emotion in them, but we also must not forget the songs that remind us of Gods Lordship, and awesomeness. Our worship must be well balanced.
That is what it means to worship in Spirit and in Truth. Spirit = From the Heart and with emotion, Truth = reality based on Gods Word. Worship God for who He truely is while from your hearts and with real emotion.
Sometime we must bring our sad emotions into our worship. Praising God through the tears. Just simply coming to him to say "I am broken, I need You" is a very worshipful statement. Because, who do you run to when you are broken? The one who can make you whole. The very act of coming to God and saying "I am broken, I need You" is proclaiming God as your healer, your Soveriegn Lord, and God understands the heart of a person better than we can.
So we must be careful not to judge others. Allow God to be as original with others as He is with You. There is one way to worship God, in Spirit and in Truth. However there are many ways that fit under that criteria.
72. David said the following at 8:37 AM on Sep 12:
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I personally think we have created a "Golden Calf" with Worship music. Just for grins record the time Music of any type is played in services as compared to: 1.)proclamation of the Word and 2.) corporate prayer/supplication. How many people would be upset with a worship service if there was no Music? We need to check ourselves! We have bought into the lie about worship. We want to be entertained and crave an emotional response. I submit that Music is not being used for Worship but used to invoke an emotional response in the congregation. Why is it that when pastors pray we find it necessary to play music in the background?? It's time to get real! Worship is to God and not about us! We should be leaving the service asking God if he was pleased with our Worship to him. Try Reading scripture instead of playing the latest Worship hits in your service. Don't get me wrong! I'm not advocating removing Song. I'm just saying we are using it for ourselves not to Worship God.