Can You Be Unmarriable?
by Suzanne Hadley Gosselin on 01/15/2009 at 5:00 PM
I appreciate the conversation going on in response "The Faithful, the Marriable" based on the article "10 Ways to Be Marriable." Several who made comments stressed that perhaps the term "marriable" is misleading, because even if a person embodies all 10 characteristics, he or she may not currently be married or have any guarantee of getting hitched in the future. I agree. Although, I don't think it ever hurts to work on character.
But that got me thinking about the opposite. Is it possible to be "unmarriable" or at least marriage-resistant? I think so. Consider in reverse the list provided in the article, and ask yourself if you would have any interest in a person who displayed these characteristics: discontentment, laziness, cruelty, inconsistency, negativism, inability to commit, spiritual apathy, pride, doubt, indecision.
I understand that a list like the one included in the article is not some magic formula for marriage. However, I stand by the article's title. These are indeed — at least in the opinion of several couples who are close enough to the "pairing up" season to remember — 10 ways to be marriable. Not the only 10 ways, of course. But 10 ways nonetheless. Developing these 10 character qualities will not make you less marriable.
Now what about the issues of attraction and confidence? I'm glad Mike Theemling brought this up. General rules of attraction do dictate that men prefer females who are easy on the(ir) eyes and women gravitate toward confident fellas. I purposefully did not hide this fact in my article. Almost every guy's story included something about the physical appearance of his now-wife: her smile, her hair, even beauty of which she was unaware. Many of the women's stories about their now-husbands demonstrated that confidence was involved. For example, Josh's comfort level stepping into ministry at Lindy's church or Andrew's boldness in approaching Sarah at the ice cream social.
Attraction is always a factor. Confidence is always a consideration. But something I took from reading all of the stories was that each of the people involved was a delight to others in some way, whether through a humble spirit, a strong faith or a genuine kindness. I hope what you take away from the article is that any work you allow God to do on your character can only remove barriers between you and others — including, but not limited to, your future spouse.
1. BDB said the following at 5:56 PM on Jan 15:
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Suzanne, I have a question about #5 - Optimism.
The story that follows sounds like being supportive. Are they the same?
Maybe I'm splitting hairs still, but I've always thought of "optimism" as the people who have a sunny disposition and who speaks the positive things, rather than focusing on the negative.
Say someone loses their job - a rather common occurance these days.
An Optimist might say, "When God closes a door, he opens a window! I'm sure you'll land on your feet!"
A Pessimist might say, "The economy is totally tanking - you're in deep transistor parts!"
A supportive person might say, "Your skills at x, y, and z are very solid. I can see why an organization would value those skills in a position like a, b or c. Keep me updated so I can pray for you specifically. I will walk through this with you.
But another aspect of being supportive is checking back regularly. You hear this from cancer survivors - lots of people are around at the beginning. But after they get through chemotherapy, and they adjust to a new "normal" for a period of years, many of those people fall away. The supportive people who pace themselves for the long haul do indeed become highly valued.
2. Mike G said the following at 6:06 PM on Jan 15:
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Great articles, Suzanne. I think its been some your best writing. The corresponding blog posts have been good as well. I think this article captures the heart of the issue as well.
Its easy as a single person to look at the list and claim to be fulfilling all of the characteristics and thus despair over still being single. We need accountability with these characteristics. We may believe we're taking initiative, or displaying kindness, consistency, and optimism, but without some outside perspective, things might not be as we see them.
What may seem like only a sliver may truly be a log in our own eye.
Again, really great writing!
3. Emily said the following at 7:35 PM on Jan 15:
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How would we define "doubt" in the context of a person being unmarriable? I am kind of confused, so if somebody can help me with some examples of how one exemplifies "doubt" that would be wonderful!
I am tired of hearing about people who blame other people and don't really do any self-examination when it comes to figuring out why they have a hard time finding a lasting relationship, let alone friendships!
Thank you for this post, Suzanne. Have a wonderful and blessed weekend!
4. Donna Earnhardt said the following at 8:49 PM on Jan 15:
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Physical attraction, does indeed, take on many forms. If you were to ask me to name my least favorite facial features, I would name my nose and my eyebrows. They have always seemed a bit, well, BIG. :) My hubby, however, names those as some of his favorite features of my face!
There are, of course, other things that are attractive to my hubby that have nothing to do with physical appearance. Those things, however, can also be viewed as unattractive. For instance, if I happen to know a certain section of the Bible a little better than he does, he's fine with that and actually thinks it's great! He's happy that I'm in tune with the Word and am digging deep. HOWEVER...when I yield it as a personal attack weapon against him, it's not so attractive. (Like when I start plucking out the splinter in his eye when I've got a treetrunk in my own eye!)
I am constantly reminded of the love chapter and how it applies to daily living. And daily, I come up short!But if we all defined beauty by the definitions of love found in that chapter, everyone would be better off and very marriable! :)
5. NeedACatchyName said the following at 9:41 PM on Jan 15:
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First of all, let me say that this has been a good set of blog posts/articles. It's much better than rehashing tired political arguments that have already been debated ad nauseum on other websites.
In my experience, nothing kills your chances as a guy more than lack of confidence. Confidence makes a great first impression on a girl, but lack of confidence seems to turn girls off pretty quickly. And this isn't just confidence to ask her out (though this one is key unless you plan to telepathically communicate your desires). Even if you muster the confidence to ask a girl out, if you just stammer out a nervous, mumbled invitation or ask her out via email to avoid face-to-face confrontation, you have a far smaller chance of success than a more confident guy who boldly declares his intentions.
I also think it's worth mentioning that even though the stereotype is that physical attraction is what guys like in a girl and confidence is what girls like in a guy (and it's probably mostly true), it does work both ways. Guys appreciate a confident girl who is comfortable with who she is, and I know more than a few girls who like the sight of an attractive guy.
Here's some advice for guys (though it probably applies to girls too): hit the gym, especially if your physical shape can best be described as "potato." You can shed a few extra pounds and bulk up in the right places to help increase the attraction side of the equation. And as you become more in-shape and stronger, your confidence increases along with your energy level, which in turn also seems to increase your confidence even more.
6. Adam said the following at 10:33 PM on Jan 15:
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I'm 28 yrs old. I haven't even finished my undergrad engineering degree. I know that finishing this degree is God's will, regardless of my future vocation. I've just come back after having failed out of school, a result of poor discipline and bad decisions on my part, but God began a work in me on my character during the year that I had off, and towards the tail end of that 07-08 year I realized I had serious feelings for a friend of mine. I hadn't been considering any relationships for me at all for the last several years because of the academic rut (and resultantly, a financial rut from loans wasted on failed semesters) that I put myself in.
I prayed over the issue, and felt that I had the go-ahead to at least start getting to know her better (There's definitely some promise) and what I'm finding as I wrestle with this issue is that while my circumstances don't free me up to physically be "marriable" in the near future, and I'm being wise and honest about that in my consideration of this potential relationship, even putting it back on the table and taking the pursuit seriously has been a way for God to put even more of my life on a trajectory towards marriage, and recognize where He's been building many of those 10 traits all along.
7. Christina said the following at 11:01 PM on Jan 15:
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"Several who made comments stressed that perhaps the term "marriable" is misleading, because even if a person embodies all 10 characteristics, he or she may not currently be married or have any guarantee of getting hitched in the future."
Yes, this is very true...and very discouraging. Especially when people point it out on a very regular basis, tell me that it'll happen when I least expect it, that they can't understand why I'm single, saying "oh you've got lots of time", "you're so good with kids, you should have a bunch of them". Each comment (and oh so many more) a stinging, stabbing reminder of things I may never have, never experience.
Please, stop focusing on what we don't have...spouses, children, houses...we're still people, even interesting people, without those things. Find out what we're passionate about, our hobbies, jobs, travels. If you think you've got someone in mind to set us up with because of those mutual interests, do it subtly. It can be embarrasing enough to feel "old and alone" without someone trying to set you up brazenly at every turn.
Be careful what you say to people. Even with the best of intentions you may be ripping their bleeding and wounded heart to shreds.
8. Rachael said the following at 12:21 AM on Jan 16:
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Also, perhaps we go through phases of life where 'unmarriable' characteristics and level of involvement in stuff are more prominent than at other times.
Quite awhile ago I may have asked my mom about my marriagability and at the time she may have affirmed that I was not unmarryable.
But as people (and myself) see my faults, if I were to take some of 'marriageability' test perhaps I'd fail. But I'm marrying in a couple days.
Recently Motte wrote about not being ready. I don't feel completely ready for marriage, and I know there will be major life changes and adjustment. Ideally, I should be more 'ready' or better character-wise. I don't like that I have so many faults.
I somehow remember my mom mentioning a well-known Bible teacher saying something to the extent that people may wonder who would marry this bag of bones but that there is someone.
I think that's one beautiful thing about love. Somehow there are people who will love others in spite of their faults.
It's pretty amazing. I'm loved by someone in spite of my faults, and I'm loved by God even as I am. Does that mean I should stay as I am? Absolutely not (even though I do often put myself above others in my words or deed.)
9. Christopher from Albuquerque said the following at 2:06 AM on Jan 16:
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I fear that when they consider approaching sisters in Christ for a possible courtship, too many of my brothers are thinking of "beauty" primarily in physical terms-- or at least, that if conventional physical beauty isn't there in spades, the women won't even have much of a chance of *being* considered. I wonder, how many brothers have truly taken to heart the Godly wonder of a sister in Christ who may not have a conventionally "perfect" face or figure but who is striving to embody the qualities of 1 Peter 3:3-4 (NASB): "Your adornment must not be merely external-- braiding the hair, and wearing gold jewelry, or putting on dresses; but let it be the hidden person of the heart, with the imperishable quality of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is precious in the sight of God."
I also fear that too many of my sisters in Christ are wanting a sort of easily perceivable "confidence" from their brothers which may be more worldly than Biblical. I think of Paul's words in 1 Corinthians 2:3-5, and I wonder whether he would appear attractively "confident" to some sisters in Christ (his calling to celibacy aside!): "I was with you in weakness and in fear and in much trembling, and my message and my preaching were not in persuasive words of wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power, so that your faith would not rest on the wisdom of men, but on the power of God."
I identify with Paul in this passage quite often (thinking of the weakness, fear, and trembling, and striving to rest my confidence in God). Perhaps it has something to do with my having a physical disability. Is there a sister in Christ out there who will look at me and see a potential husband at some point in the future? Do I have the "confidence" which so many Christian women seem to want? I wonder at times. What I do want is a Biblical confidence.
10. TINA said the following at 3:06 AM on Jan 16:
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all to true most men look on the outside before the inside of a women's heart...the physical attraction must be there then the hunt begins...most women want the romance...the intimacy outside of the bedroom.....I think men/women become unmarriable or resistant because of placing expectations on relationships.....(unless of coarse you are called not to marry then that's obviously different)the only thing we should expect out of a relationship is to understand you aren't me and I'm not you,there will be trying times in the best of them its all how we respond and learn not to react that's where character comes in...allowing the HOLY SPIRIT to teach you and build your character then true change can occur to look at yourself honestly keep the good and change the unmanageable..... trust is a big factor so many people miss out on a good thing because they don't trust because of past hurts they continue down the beaded path of a lonely existence because of what someone else did to them not realizing the power they have given that dragon they choose to view all men/women as the first predator who hurt them bringing that wall into all the relationships to follow they give power to the lie...If you study the great animal kingdom we can really learn a lot...just a few examples:ducks mate for life,dogs are forever faithful no matter what they love you unconditionally loyal to their master,lioness round up the supper and tend to the cubs while big daddy protects the family,bees/ants work ferverently hard to please the Queen each one knows his position and executes to the end with much dedication and faithfulness...i could go on and on i am one of those people/animal studiers who ha sometimes over analyzes......... anything that is our strength is our weakness.......that's were learning the balance comes in....I truly believe unless you are called to not marry there is someone for everyone some past them by because of what i mentioned above concerning ones past,others just haven't met their spouse yet......the big question is if your looking where are you fishing? if GOD has someone for you you will meet them just have your eyes open don't miss the blessing...most important keep it in prayer.......
11. kt said the following at 4:08 AM on Jan 16:
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Just wondering how being a 'work in progress' fits into all this? Of course no one wants to marry someone w/ negative characteristics, yet is someone 'off the marriable list' b/c he or she struggles w/ being negative sometimes? Or doubt? Difficult to balance just accepting someone as they are and where they are at and expecting them to have it all figured out. Maybe it's more accurate to say that if a person is aspiring to gain these character traits and growing in that direction that they are 'marriable.'
12. Suzanne Hadley Gosselin said the following at 8:23 AM on Jan 16:
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BDB,
My use of the word optimism was intentional. It came up in at least half a dozen of the interviews — mainly from the men. Of course, a supportive partner is also important, but I believe the spouses in question were attracted to their intended's overall positive attitude about life. That kind of attitude is refreshing instead of draining. Perhaps akin to "joy in all circumstances?"
13. MarriageVeteran said the following at 8:23 AM on Jan 16:
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What's good to remember is that everyone married is flawed, and most married people don't possess even a few of the marriageable qualities listed...just look around. Has anyone watched "Wedding SOS" or "Newlywed Nearly Dead"? These programs show people getting married, and newlyweds, who are discontent, lazy, cruel, inconsistent, negative, bad at commitment, spiritually apathetic, prideful, and indecisive. The truth is, people with these qualities are tying the knot every day.
Look at Jon and Kate Gosselin of "Jon & Kate Plus Eight." Often they are impatient, negative, unkind, and more to each other. Maybe one of the reasons they are so well liked is because people relate to the imperfections in their personalities and marriage relationship. Perhaps, it gives people hope that marriage is not based on how right we are, but on how it can endure despite our failures and weaknesses.
Singles are often given the message that there's something wrong with them and "that's" why they're not married. But the truth is, there’s something wrong with all of us whether married or single, we’re all born marred with sin.
14. Suzanne Hadley Gosselin said the following at 8:25 AM on Jan 16:
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Emily,
I should have been more clear. I meant doubt in God versus trust in Him. And I'm not talking about the occasional doubts we all face but an overall unwillingness or inability to trust the Lord.
15. Scott said the following at 8:36 AM on Jan 16:
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Couple thoughts:
1. Marraige, ultimately, is part of God's plan to refine us to make us more like him. God has chosen other people (the community of the church) as one of his primary methods of communicating his grace and truth in our lives. (See Hebrews 10:24-25, 1 Peter 4:7-11 as examples of where I derive this). Marraige falls within this, and I can assure you that married people will tell you that their spouses have certainly refined and challenged them to become more like Christ.
The reason I mention this is that it's certainly fine that we strive to have these qualities that make us "marraigeable", but marraige is not an end, it's a means to the ultimate end of the coming unification with Christ (and our full sanctification). To make it an end makes it an idol, which is, well, very sinful.
I note this because I have fallen into this trap.
2. It's easy to say "I am kind, an optimist, etcedra." However, don't think of it as a binary (0 or 1, for you non mathy people) trait, think of it as a continuum. Even if you are a very kind person, pray for ways to both grow in kindness, and for ways to further use that kindness for the kingdom. If you are an optimist, pray for ways to grow in optimism, and pray for ways to keep encouraging brothers and sisters toward Christ.
Basically, never think "I've arrived!", because then I feel (I speak from personal experience) that I can now live on my own strength, my own flesh, which is foolishness and leads to all the bad things of the flesh (see Galatians 3 and on for good talk on that).
Good discussion. I do have one question, and it's been bothering me.
I'm a giant nerd. I like a good game of Dungeons and Dragons, and I enjoy a solid RPG video game. While, certainly, I strive to make good use of my time and to honor Christ through what I do (I have other hobbies, passions, things I do to serve, etc), I can't change my stripes too much (barring Christ reprogramming me, which certainly is not out of the question): I'm still a nerd, and nerdery is not exactly an estrogen rich path. Thus, it's a bit hard to find women with the "common interests" sort of thing, and I haven't had too much luck in the dating realm.
I've always sort of wondered: Am I making myself unmarraible, or at least hurting my chances, because of it?
Interested to hear commments. Thanks!
16. obewan said the following at 8:44 AM on Jan 16:
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Yes it is possible to be "unmarriable."
For a never married person in their 40's with the conviction that divorce + remarriage = adultery running in circles where virtually all the eligible singles are divorced, that might ring true.
Getting past it requires a change of convictions, or a wait until later years for a chance at marriage to a widow/widower.
17. Kate said the following at 9:34 AM on Jan 16:
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In a way it sounds kind of cruel to try categorizing people into "marriable" and "unmarriable" slots.. if we are viewing these as definite and permanent categorizations. However, I absolutely believe that there are characteristics that would render somebody as "unmarriable," and what I mean by that is that I would never choose for myself or advise another person to marry that "unmarriable" person.
I think the list Suzanne offers is a good start, "discontentment, laziness, cruelty, inconsistency, negativism, inability to commit, spiritual apathy, pride, doubt, indecision" if those are overriding characteristics of a person.
For me before I was married and now when I'm looking at the dating relationships of friends and family members, I am frankly thinking with my "counselor" training and evaluating if that partner (or even my friend/family member) has characteristics of an abusive person, on many levels. Such as: does he/she use emotional manipulation to get the partner to do what he/she wants? Does he/she get jealous and possessive about what the partner is doing and who he/she talks to... and try to prevent him/her from having outside support and interests? Does he/she get enjoyment and comfort out of belittling or defeating the partner? Does he/she have a history of abusing/neglecting animals? Does he/she have a history of abusing/neglecting children or past partners, or even the current relationship? Is he/she a free-loader off of parents or the bf/gf for housing, money, food and other basic needs and/or wants (without contributing back in other ways)? These are just a few of the things I think about generally... and I would consider anyone currently having these characteristics to be "unmarriable."
Also, for me, men who were not good leaders were "unmarriable," and in my experience these were men who had a more "men and women are the same and interchangeable in relationships roles." Anyone who has not examined their views and desires about gender roles and thought critically about them is seen as just as "unmarriable" to me as somebody who holds perspectives incompatible with mine... since with them, you don't even know what you are getting into and signing up for, and neither do they! Same thing with their views about money and possessions, careers, and about broader family roles.
Also anyone with a substance use problem, or addiction to other activities like gambling, binge eating or dieting, shopping or video games... or even somebody who appears to take "too much" or "too deep" of a delight/comfort in activities like these that are quickly and highly gratifying behaviors, since that could become problematic and spiral out of control if/when used as a coping method for stress. (I already expect some protest from people defending an interest in video games! I am not saying all high interest in these is a "bad" kind of interest!)
I do believe these kind of characteristics make somebody "unmarriable" at the time of holding those characteristics and I do not believe somebody with these characteristics is beyond change.
Obviously, nobody is ever going to be perfectly ready and skilled and past everything I mentioned above and everything else that is important in being a person who can contribute to a God-honoring and healthy marriage. There has to be a good amount of critical thinking about what are acceptable levels of communication skills, skill at running a household/managing time and money (for MEN and WOMEN on all of these dimensions I would add), direction in education/career, spiritual compatibility, understanding and acceptance of roles in the relationship, and so on.
I think so many people unfortunately assess a partner (and/or themselves) as not very good/not good enough on a lot of these things, but make an eternal commitment anyway because of their emotions, having the assumption that they will be able to change that partner in very extreme ways, just because they are now married, as if that is magical in and of itself (when in actuality you need a consistent seeking and reliance upon God to be healed and formed in this way, married or not!).
I agree, I like this discussion topic much more than the political stuff!
18. Mike Theemling said the following at 9:38 AM on Jan 16:
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Suzanne,
Thank you for the reply and addressing a few issues I had brought up.
Regarding the 'negatives' of repelling someone from marrying you, you are indeed correct that having attributes of cruelty, laziness, etc. will most likely not garner you suitors. However, one needs to be careful with the reasoning. Just because a negative disqualifies you from something does not automatically mean that the positive does as you pointed out. You most likely won't be a star athlete if you are severely overweight. But being thin does not automatically mean you will be one either. Likewise, although being cruel and lazy probably won't garner you dates, just because you are kind, optimistic, take the initiative, etc. does not guarentee that you will. It might be what's called "a necessary, but not sufficient" condition depending upon the person.
Perhaps I'm more critical than others in this area because of the duplicity that I've witnessed firsthand over the years. Women who complain that "no one is asking them out" when the truth is what they really mean is, "no one I'm interested in is asking me out". Or online when a girl says she is looking for a guy with traits A), B) and C) and even though I meet that criteria, after initiating (with a real message too, not some lame "wink" or "poke") I am completely ignored (I can take a 'No' ladies). Not even an attempt at trying to get to know me. I refuse to play the "Woe is I" victim mentality, but I'm not afraid to raise the BS flag either.
So when I read an article that's entitled "10 Ways to Be Marriable", I simply see in it traits that every Christian should have. Does having them make someone marriable? I would say that it doesn't disqualify them and definitely can help. But in my opinion it may be stretch to imply that those alone garners much more of an advantage than looking good and/or displaying confidence. I just thought the tips would be more pratical than cliche in nature.
But thanks again for addressing the issue.
19. Patricia said the following at 10:08 AM on Jan 16:
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So married people don't struggle with or fall into discontentment, laziness, cruelty, inconsistency, negativism, inability to commit, spiritual apathy, pride, doubt, or indecision? That's news to me. I think we tread dangerous ground when we treat married people as those who have arrived on a higher spiritual plane than unmarried brothers and sisters. Of course God can use obvious character flaws to hinder marriage from occurring. But sometimes God allows even those people to get married. Does God love that person more or did they display something else to deserve to be married? No, Him allowed him or her to be married so that the glory of God could be displayed in that person's life. So it is also for the unmarried who wait.
20. Travis said the following at 11:08 AM on Jan 16:
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kt: I don't think any of us embody all of these characteristics perfectly. We are all very much a work in progress. And we always will be.
When I was looking for my wife there were just certain things that attracted me to her. And now there were other things that I didn't find attractive or maybe that worried me. But that didn't keep me from dating her and eventually loving her and marrying her.
She still wouldn't pass all the checklists that I might have, and neither would I pass hers. We both have our faults and love each other regardless of them.
21. Kari said the following at 11:59 AM on Jan 16:
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Well I really liked the list, printed it out, and tried to write in examples/lack of examples in my life for each trait. Stuck it in my journal last night so I can refer to it. I think it is really valuable to hear real-life examples of how good character enhances a person and can attract a mate.
22. Nicole said the following at 12:39 PM on Jan 16:
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I've always thought that being marriable also meant that you were ready to make sacrifices for your marriage and your spouse, and be ready and even look forward to putting your spouses needs ahead of your own. Sometimes I can really see the advantages to old fashioned courtship and arranged marriages. It seems like a person has to be almost perfect just to get a member of the opposite sex to look your way! I bet most of us would be married by now if we did keep those traditions instead of fending for ourselves with the trial and error approach. Ah well, its just not the way it works today...
23. Last One Home's Not Really Home said the following at 12:40 PM on Jan 16:
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KT-
I think that is a really good observation since we are all just "works in progress".
I think the key is maybe figuring out what stage of the progress the potential mate is at, and if they are honestly, (HONESTLY) seeking to progress into a more godly person. Everyone has bad days, months and even years, but is the pattern rebellion or is the pattern humility and repentance? I know a young woman who desperately wants to be married and is very involved in the church, BUT is the most critical and contentious woman I have ever known(the verse about a contentious wife being a "constant dripping" comes to mind). She is sadly and very regrettably not someone I want to see married anytime soon-- but she is also not willing to work toward any of those "marriageable" qualities. She has a skewed “take me as I am” attitude that is really hurting her chances at having the marriage and family that she dreams of.
24. Tara said the following at 1:35 PM on Jan 16:
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"Thus, it's a bit hard to find women with the "common interests" sort of thing, and I haven't had too much luck in the dating realm.
I've always sort of wondered: Am I making myself unmarraible, or at least hurting my chances, because of it? "
~ Scott (comment #15)
Not in the slightest! About 2 weeks ago I married one of the biggest comic book/video game nerds out there. He doesn't RPG outside of the video realm but yes, he's definately a nerd and that's one of the things I love about him. Makes my own social ackwardness feel more acceptable. I'm even starting to enjoy a few of the games myself. :)
And I TOTALLY agree about marriage being a refining process. I'm still the same, flawed (but grace-covered) individual I was when I was "hopelessly" single not even 2 years ago.
25. Scott said the following at 1:56 PM on Jan 16:
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I think there's also an important thing to note about someone who has a highly negative quality and is refusing to admit that it is an issue. Or, better put it, this person is blatantly unrepentant in some sort of sin.
In that case, yes, there are some legtimately serious issues about their marraigability, because their lives will have a direct impact on your life when you date and get married. The poison that he or she keeps blatantly holding onto will posion you as well, and thus, this is a serious issue.
All of us are broken, scarred creations, and it is a miracle that any successful, lifelong, God honoring marraiges happen at all. If you are Biblically struggling (ie repenting and fighting with the Spirit) with one of these "unmarraigable" qualities, (discontent, for example) have hope and be encouraged that God still loves you, still forgives you, and still can and will use you for the amazing good works that he has planned for you, which could include marraige!
Take heart in the Lord, for he is good. We just tend to not know what is truly good for us. :)
26. Loris said the following at 1:58 PM on Jan 16:
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@ Scott (#15),
I wouldn't worry too much about your geeky hobbies unless they're taking too much time away from socializing with real people. I also wouldn't put that as a common interest necessity on your "spouse traits" list.
My husband is very outgoing and a hardcore gamer. I am quiet and had barely held a game system in my hands before I met him. I really think the basis of our marriage is simply that we enjoy being together, not that we have anything in common except for a hatred of split pea soup. Most people would say that's not enough to base a marriage on, but it works for us. In the three years we've been married, I've learned to play Mario Kart, Katamari, and WoW to enter his world a little. Gamers can be made after the wedding; they don't have to come that way.
27. IMO said the following at 2:19 PM on Jan 16:
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Scott #15, you definitely have one major thing going for you: Confidence in who you are as a person!
As mentioned before, many women like confidence in man.
A woman, I think, can smell a non-confident guy a mile away.
28. BDB said the following at 2:36 PM on Jan 16:
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Suzanne (#12) wrote:
>>That kind of attitude is refreshing instead of draining. Perhaps akin to "joy in all circumstances?"<<
Oh, I see what you're doing. Yes, Optimism is a good thing. Kind of like the advice to "marry a happy person" because they're more likely to be happy in all circumstances.
The example included in the article seemed more like "perseverence," which I see you have other examples of. I wonder if "supportive" is something that should be its own category. A good friend of mine married a guy who did do a number of supportive things for her when he didn't have to. One was driving 4 hours to pick her up at the airport, drop her off at college, then turn around and drive 4 hours back home t take the MCAT. He had signed up for the test that day long before her flight was scheduled for the day before.
Another thing he did was help her with her grandparent's estate. She had been taking care of her grandparents in Hawaii alone until they passed away, and the famly kind of dumped the arrangements on her. He bought a plane ticket and flew out to help. Impressed the heck out of her, and me. I definitely encouraged that marriage.
But I do understand what you say about optimism also. My grandparents tell great stories of when they travel. One time I heard their story about an event. Then I heard about the same event from another relative, who complained about all the things that went wrong. That was when I realized my grandparents were choosing to focus on the positive, and always gushed about the positive things that happen to them. No wonder they always get invited to things, and their lives are full of people.
And I do think that your article is doing the right thing - focusing on what successful people do and look for, and emulating them.
29. Jeni said the following at 3:08 PM on Jan 16:
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I've had several reactions to this article. I just thought I'd share three of them:
My First Thought: Yeah,a formula for getting married! I was prepped to take notes and implement my new and improved plan to get to the altar. Even though I logically realize that there is no actual formula that one follows and that one will get married, I personally really would like one! Yet every married couple I know have their own unique story of what situations brought them together and what qualities drew them to each other. Therefore I deduce that there is no formula. Unfortunately.
My Second Thought: Ugh, another formula for getting married. Just another list of qualification of which I don't measure up to. Then the married people I know came to mind and I realized none of them score a "10" on all 10 of the listed qualities, even after years of marriage. I am human and I am still in process. God is still working on my character qualities. He's also still working on that guy out there who is also very human. I am very thankful for His grace in my life. I need to extend that grace to myself and to potential spouses.
My Third Thought: I'd really like a formula that works!
True confessions.;-0
30. Tami said the following at 3:26 PM on Jan 16:
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MarriageVeteran and Travis -- thanks for sharing your insights. I found them helpful and encouraging.
Grace seems to be an operative word here... giving it to others; and, for those of us who can be hard on ourselves, giving it to *yourself* as well.
31. TINA said the following at 4:42 PM on Jan 16:
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Scott #25 awesome...:)#29 Jeni-there is no per say formula? only patience's and being still knowing God is in control of our destiny....however if the thought of a formula is necessary here is a thought...
1.)ASK GOD..
2.)KEEP IT IN PRAYER WITH THANKSGIVING THAT THE LORD WILL ANSWER ..
3.)WAIT.......
the waiting is always the hardest part.....
32. Christina (in green) said the following at 5:01 PM on Jan 16:
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Scott asked,
I've always sort of wondered: Am I making myself unmarraible, or at least hurting my chances, because of it?
The only time you hurt yourself is when you are unwilling to go out of your comfort zone to experiment with something that may be one of HER interests.
Ditto goes for the girl :) I have a girlfriend who had never played WoW but had heard of it countless times and made fun of it. She started dating a guy who made her try it and she discovered she kinda enjoys it =p
I always considered dating as much about self-discovery as potential mate-finding.
Like some of the girls above said, they never played prior to dating/marrying their S.O.
I had never played a game in my life prior to dating my first boyfriend in college...and I tried D&D...and my 2nd got me involved in TCG's and WoW.
Now to find myself with a guy that is sociable, but has a penchant for the "nerdy" (that quality, he will ardently deny to any and all except family).
What we have going for us, though, is not our similar interests, but a solid enjoyment of trying new things...no matter how awkward or uncomfy they may be! (I've managed to talk him into musicals and Shakespeare plays!)
33. Lori said the following at 2:27 AM on Jan 17:
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I certainly think that these are very good traits but I suppose I find articles like that ultimately discouraging. The truth is, if I look inside myself, surface level aaallllll the way down, I am a deeply flawed individual. My sin and selfishness know no bounds. But, bit by bit God is sanctifying me and making me more like him. I pursue Him and He changes me. But those qualities you mentioned, they seem...quantifiable to me. How content is content enough to be marriable? How kind? Because...I doubt I will ever fully embody any of these characteristics on this side of the grave(not that that's an excuse to not personally pursue those qualities along with all traits of godliness with unbound fervor). So, if that's what it takes to be marriable than I'm up a creek without a paddle.
I also tend to find myself in circles that include almost no men and often this occurrence is not of my own volition. I took a job and 9/10 of my coworkers are female. There's one English speaking church in my area and most of the men are taken or married. It seems like God is keeping men from me (or me from men). I certainly hope that's His way of working out His timing rather than a result of some...mortal character flaw in me I've yet to see and work on.
34. kt said the following at 7:30 AM on Jan 17:
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Travis (#20), Last one home (#23)
Thanks for your posts. Appreciate it. I am in a situation like you described, Travis...in a serious relationships w/ a man who is still struggling in some of those areas but is truly in pursuit of becoming more godly and refined. And it is nice to hear from married people that, when they married, the person didn't necessarily fit the 'perfect checklist.'
I understand the importance of realizing you can't change someone, but it is equally re-assuring to know that it is OK to accept them as they are, where they are at, and just trust God w/ the whole process.
I'm 35 and I think sometimes my own 'checklists' have kept me single maybe longer than I needed to be b/c I thought the 'perfect' person was just around the corner.
But through much prayer and seeking the Lord, He has given me to go-ahead to go forward in the relationship, flaws and all. And certainly humbling me along the way to realize that I'm sure that I am not perfect on his checklist either.
But we are growing - in the Lord and together, and it is nice to hear that that is part of marriage too. "Love is patient, kind, long-suffering...etc"
35. Katie P. in AZ said the following at 9:57 AM on Jan 17:
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Christina, #7:
Thank you! I totally agree. Unmarried people are whole people and God keeps us single for reasons that we or anyone else can't fathom. In the meantime, it would be nice if people would remind us of all the things we do have (the most amazing of which is all the fullness of Christ, and there's no marriage requirement for that!!!), instead of saying insensitive, canned things in an attempt to be "helpful" without actually putting in that much thought or effort.
36. TINA said the following at 12:14 PM on Jan 17:
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#35 Katie P.,
Just wondering if you are referring to these post as being,insensitive,canned things,thoughtless efforts?Or is that how someone in your life has made you feel?I am not asking to be insensitive just curious,because I read all the post and didn't find any to be as such......If you are called not to marry that is a awesome calling...that means God has great work for you that other wise would not be able to be accomplished with the daily duties of a wife/mother...
We all talk out of our own life experiences,this is why for me i ask the Lord to open the eyes of my heart and to help me see people through his eyes....sometimes i am so amazed at what he shows me...of coarse to pray about for that person is the sole reason...he has even used that on me....and I'm like duhhh i get it that's why i reacted like that....then of coarse taking the life lesson with you is the sweet reward....To have the spiritual growth..."Iron sharpens Iron"
37. Brad said the following at 3:42 AM on Jan 19:
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I'll admit that in my present condition I am "unmarriable" according to the criteria here. A man can only take so much rejection and still be confident and optimistic in his dealings with women.
38. Christina (in green) said the following at 8:41 AM on Jan 19:
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Katie P in #35 and Christina in #7,
Its hard to think that people are saying those things as "canned responses" considering i've been hearing them since I was 16.
"You're so good with kids..."
"You'll make an excellent mother..."
No matter how much it stung, its been a blast watching those people who never gave up hope for me or stopped praying for me celebrate on my wedding day.
My husband said that it was as if EVERYONE at my wedding had the same pride that they would have if it had been their OWN daughter...not just a member of the church. They were just as emotionally involved.
And let me tell you, it still makes me tear up when I think of all those ladies that kept encouraging me and offering me hope when I was ready to give up all those dreams for good and watching them celebrate when those dreams started to finally come true.
39. Christopher from Albuquerque said the following at 4:53 PM on Jan 19:
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I touched on this topic in my above comment, but I am wondering, where does the Bible tell Christian men to be "confident" in the ways that Christian women seem to find attractive? As I wrote above (to which no one replied, so I will write again, hehe!), Paul spoke of his own "weakness, fear, and trembling," when it came to preaching the Gospel. He was decidedly *not* like the articulate, assured, confident "super-apostles" who were challenging him and his authority. Yet his solution was not to gain greater confidence and exude it to others. His solution was to be honest about his struggles, even in weakness, fear, and trembling, and rest his confidence in God. How many Christian women would find a man like Paul "unmarriable" (his calling to celibacy aside, of course)?
40. Keith said the following at 9:39 PM on Jan 19:
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Has anyone ever considered that too many people today are never finding a happy marriage BECAUSE of checklists like these? Too many people, Christian and not, has certain checklists of thier ideal spouse. But loving someone is about accepting them as they are, and not how you want them to be. If you have ideals of what you expect your life time partner to be, you may be dissappointed and reject that person when they come along.
41. IMO said the following at 9:05 AM on Jan 20:
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#39
I think it comes down to what a definition of men's confidence is/how it looks like.
To me, "His solution was to be honest about his struggles, even in weakness, fear, and trembling, and rest his confidence in God," looks like confidence.
There's a huge difference between a confident man and a cocky man.
A man that tries to be and acts like somebody he's not....that isn't a confident man, IMO. That man is trying to people-please. As long as a man's confidence lies in Christ, than AMEN!
Hmm another way to look at it...A man that knows himself and his "limitations" and "fears" and is not afraid to be open about them and seek Christ...is a confident man, IMO.
Did I help answer your question?
42. Tami said the following at 9:09 AM on Jan 20:
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Christopher (39) -- for me, I do find confidence attractive, but it is that Paul-esque confidence in the Lord and not the self. A guy who sees a challenge and takes it on in the Lord -- whether that's leading a men's group, asking a woman out, stepping into a new role at work, or wrasslin' a bear* -- is attractive... certainly as opposed to habitual vacillation and/or passivity (a la James 1:6). I think that has some biblical backing.
Confidence minus agape is arrogance, in my opinion. And that's not attractive.
* Kidding about wrasslin' a bear. :)
43. Jeni said the following at 9:17 AM on Jan 20:
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#31 Tina - THAT's the formula. It's good to know I'm already excersising it. Thanks for the reminder.
44. Scott said the following at 9:21 AM on Jan 20:
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#39:
Keep in mind that Paul was extremely confident. However, he was confident in the Lord, not in himself. He was indeed weak and trembling when he spoke the Gospel to so many people, but he was confident that the Lord would speak through him. In fact, let's look at the verse in context:
1 Corinthians 2:1-5
"When I came to you, brothers, I did not come with eloquence or superior wisdom as I proclaimed to you the testimony about God. For I resolved to know nothing while I was with you except Jesus Christ and him crucified. I came to you in weakness and fear, and with much trembling. My message and my preaching were not with wise and persuasive words, but with a demonstration of the Spirit's power, so that your faith might not rest on men's wisdom, but on God's power."
Paul knows with assurance that the Holy Spirit spoke through him. He knows that it wasn't his own "skills" that ultimately brought the message of life to the Corinthians.
There is more than one way to be confident. The confidence you see in the "bad boy" (assuming a stereotypical jerk) is often times just a "I am better than everyone else, this I am confident in the way that I live". While this is indeed confidence, it is fueled by pride.
However, Biblical confidence comes from knowing Jesus Christ (see Phillipians 3 as a key example of this) alone. It is acknowledging that we are weak- and in admitting this, we become confident that the Lord will "keep our paths straight" and will empower us to do his good works.
This is what Paul is getting at. He is not confident in who he is. He is confident in who he is in Jesus Christ. It's a "radical humility".
So, to answer your question, I would say yes. Women would find Paul attractive. (I'm not one, but I imagine some solid believers would think very highly of him. Women, feel free to correct me).
So, I hope that gives you some insight on your issue. My charge is that we as men strive toward Biblical confidence and ultimately putting Jesus as the #1 and only thing of value in our lives.
(And this is the same Scott who was self-conscious about the fact that he's a nerd earlier in this comment thread. To quote Philippians: "Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already been made perfect, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me." So I speak as one who is trying to grow in this Biblical self-confidence as well, as a single guy who hasn't had much "success" in the dating world. I know your struggles. :) )
45. IMO said the following at 9:27 AM on Jan 20:
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Hi Tami,
Agape love is very rare by definition. Maybe one of the other "Four Loves" is better-suited in your sentence...
I know, I'm picking a tiny bone. :P
46. Elizabeth said the following at 10:42 AM on Jan 20:
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To Scott: Amen brother! I wholeheartedly agree to your comment. As a woman I do look for Christ-like qualities in a man. I also do focus on being more Christ-like. In my experience, a man that isn't attractive to the world's standards, becomes more attractive when he displays Christ like characteristics (when no one is watching). I immediately think, I want to get to know him better!
And by the way, I would find Paul attractive. He has always been my favorite writer in the bible :)
47. Christina (in green) said the following at 10:51 AM on Jan 20:
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Keith, #40,
Sometimes these checklists protect us from relationships we shouldn't be in.
As long as they are reasonable. Like being a Christian. Wanting a family.
However, this list is what ATTRACTED a person to someone...not what they were looking for in someone.
These are the things that drew them like a moth to flame - and therefore something that we, as the ones wanting to attract, should pursue to attract someone who meets our "checklist".
As for the checklist, I was told to write down 5 things I look for in a husband. No more, no less. It has been a discipline for me to sharpen and hone that list, taking off the things that aren't as important and substituting the ones that are most critical. The list never grew beyond that - it wasn't allowed to.
Unreasonable? Far from it...unless you consider being a Christian and loving me as unreasonable. Now putting down "has musical talent" as my original list included when I was 14, that's a bit unreasonable as a MUST have - and was nixxed from the list by the time I was 18.
This list saved me from untold disaster as I ended up in a relationship with a guy I had no intention of marrying (first boyfriend...and poor advice...and long story). I ended up emotionally attached to him...I thought I loved him. But that checklist saved me from ending up in an abusive relationship as I would never say yes to a marriage proposal...without that list, I might have...being as emotionally attached as I was.
When I finally managed to reason my way out of the emotional cloud that the announcement of the impending proposal forced me to do, I was able to get out. But without a stepping stone in the form of a "checklist" that was created without emotional attachment, I don't think I would've made it. I don't think I'd be married to someone else who more accurately fits my checklist - and he is far from perfect. But I'm 100% ok with that...especially since I often don't notice =p
48. Tami said the following at 11:18 AM on Jan 20:
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IMO -- No, I very deliberately chose "agape." Selfless, Spirit-filled love that fuels our desire and ability to act on the behalf of others and for God. Eros certainly doesn't fit; philia is based on friendship and common activities; and storge is based on natural affiliations.
You are right in that agape is an impossible standard for us to meet on our own, but in terms of how I was relating it to confidence given by the Spirit... again, deliberate.
As believers, in terms of our *aspirations*, agape shouldn't be rare; it should mark us as believers (see 1 Cor 13).
Ergo my conclusion from above -- Christ-given agape love, faith, and confidence are attractive. :)
49. Christopher from Albuquerque said the following at 1:04 PM on Jan 21:
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Thanks to all (especially the sisters in Christ) for clarifying about the kind of confidence that Christian women like to see from men. Any confidence that I have is hopefully "God-confidence" (that is to say, confidence in Him and His power, as working through me, a clay vessel), not a worldly self-confidence. Even from Christians, I sometimes hear talk about "believing in yourself," and it confuses me. My hope and trust (I pray) are in God. Of course, He does give us gifts and abilities, but even with those, we should be humble, recognizing that we have absolutely nothing that we have not received from Him.
50. Emily said the following at 8:17 PM on Jan 22:
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Thank you (#14) Suzanne - your explanation really helped.
I have an example of how I have sabotaged attracting stable believing men when I was in my early twenties. I lacked self-control and discretion in terms of being considerate towards other people. I was the textbook example of a "good Christian". I went to church every Sunday. I was a faithful Bible study participant and nursery volunteer, but my social skills were rather immature. I was relationally lazy and very needy and made other people uncomfortable. I failed to take direction from God and to listen to others with regard to improving my ability to relate to others.
Thankfully, God has redeemed my situation and is continuing to work through me and has patiently taught me about the importance of putting myself in another's shoes before I blame others and assume that nothing is wrong with me. It has been a rather liberating experience to take responsibility for my conduct.
I am not saying that people who are single longer than they want to be are in the same boat as I am. Everybody has his/her own journey and it is impossible to assess another's situation. I hope that my own example can help in any way possible.