Confronting Her Sexual Past
by Motte Brown on 12/29/2008 at 4:06 PM
In today's Boundless Answers, John Thomas answers a question from a guy who's worried his girlfriend's sexual past will mean problems down the road. Here's the crux of the questioner's concerns:
The issues that affect me the most are just sadness of us possibly not being completely as close as we could be, insecurity of being compared to these other guys, and just having trouble dealing with the thought of this girl I love having been so close and intimate with another (or others).
In his answer, John gives hope for restoration and offers practical advice on how to humbly approach his girlfriend when working through the issue. It begins with the example of Jesus Christ.
Jesus showed us perfect response to people's personal sin. He exhibited the perfect balance of righteousness and compassion; justice and mercy. He called it the way He saw it without compromise, then He brought healing and hope and restoration.
I want to encourage you with two thoughts as you prepare for your conversation with her. First, you must have as your ultimate goal the glory of God. What I mean is that you can't see this as ultimately being about you, and you can't see this as ultimately being about her. This is about God. All of life is from Him, through Him and for Him. So as you think about this, you think as Christ would think. How could you do that, you ask?
That is thought number two. As a believer, you have been given the "mind of Christ." The very Spirit of Christ dwells in you. You have access to all of the discernment and wisdom of God. Additionally, you have the power of God to help you love, forgive, restore and celebrate the gift of grace: Christ taking your sin and her sin upon Himself, and paying our death sentence.
John rightly focuses on the need for grace in this circumstance. If this young man approaches his girlfriend with the "mind of Christ," then there is hope for love, forgiveness, and restoration. But that doesn't mean that her past sexual sins (and possibly his if he's ever viewed pornography) won't have consequences in the marriage bed.
The questioner's fear of comparison and loss of intimacy is legitimate. And I don't say that to discourage. I say that so the person reading this will have the proper perspective going in. Sober expectations can be a blessing here.
Being other-centered will also help. If you're willing to lay down your sexual expectations for the sake of your spouse, there's very little room for sadness and insecurity.
1. J. said the following at 8:30 PM on Dec 29:
In terms of encouraging the questioner to offer forgiveness and grace to his girlfriend, John's answer was more than sound. However, I do wish John had encouraged getting clarification regarding one matter and challenged the questioner concerning another. First, the questioner has "much reason to believe" that his girlfriend was previously sexually active; i.e., he really doesn't know for sure. He could be fretting for naught. In addition, even though the questioner has apparently never kissed a woman, does this mean he has never looked at porn and objectified the women in the images? Never engaged in lustful masturbation (I have Dr. Dobson's guidelines in mind as to what is okay and what isn't)? If the questioner has steered clear of these things in addition to avoiding kissing, my hat is off to him as he is definitely in the minority. If the answers to these questions are "yes," however...these things are a form of sexual sin, too, and regardless of the girlfriend's past she may not be happy to hear that the questioner has engaged in these behaviors because they too can have long-term consequences and detract from the quality of a marriage.
2. Jethro said the following at 8:30 PM on Dec 29:
Why is it such an issue for men being compared 'physically' to a woman's past partners? Why aren't guys equally worried about being inferior in other ways, such as intellectually?
3. Becky said the following at 8:14 AM on Dec 30:
My husband was not a virgin when we married. I have never felt and he has never given me an indication that he has compared me to these other women. It has never caused a "loss of intimacy". Quite frankly after the intial discussion it hasn't been an issue.
People get themselves so worked up over it and turn it into a bigger problem that it ought to be. The past is the past and should stay there.
4. IWishToRemainAnonymous said the following at 8:15 AM on Dec 30:
"If you're willing to lay down your sexual expectations for the sake of your spouse, there's very little room for sadness and insecurity."
Here's a wrench to throw into the matter - what about parental approval? My parents are adamant that they will not give their blessing on a potential spouse who is not a virgin. What is a person to do in that situation? I can't imagine it would be wise to fly in the face of parental counsel in the name of offering forgiveness to one who has sinned - or does the presence of such sin in a potential boyfriend/girlfriend's life just mean that that person is not God's will, since parental blessing can't/won't be given in that situation?
5. Rachel said the following at 8:16 AM on Dec 30:
A good book that discusses the grace-centered approach to this very issue is Boy Meets Girl by Josh Harris. In a chapter near the center of the book, Josh describes his own conversation with his future wife. I have found this book very helpful.
6. from the north said the following at 8:17 AM on Dec 30:
I can relate to the questioner's concerns as I'm a woman who's never even kissed a guy. I'm still single but one of my greatest worries is, when I do fall in love, how much sexual experience will my partner have? I realize that in today's world, the chances of meeting a guy who's a virgin and never viewed porn is slim and that I will have to deal with that with grace and love. However, it definately poses a challenge to the relationship when there is such a vast difference in sexual experience.
7. Bob said the following at 8:19 AM on Dec 30:
If I found out my girlfriend was guilty of fornication I would drop her like a hot potato. If I am going to keep myself pure why should I not set high criteria for prospective spouses? I mean, if you are a hygenic person would you buy used underwear at a thrift store, heck no! So if you are a virgin why would you marry a non-virgin? Especially given that there are probably more virgin women than men, it should be easier for a virgin man to find a virgin woman than the other way around. It's not like offering forgiveness kills those nasty "social diseases".
8. H.A.P said the following at 8:20 AM on Dec 30:
I wonder if this guy read Joshua Harris' book Boy meets Girl when he was younger? If not, now might be the time. The book details his struggles and victories over his wife's past sexual sins.
9. Leah said the following at 8:21 AM on Dec 30:
Jethro- as a male, I think you are more qualified to answer that question, rather than half the Boundless commenters who are women ;)
10. farmer Tom said the following at 8:28 AM on Dec 30:
You know me, always the contrarian. I have a different take on the subject.
Statistics say that 50 percent of the women who engage in premarital sexual activity will divorce later in life. I don't know the statistics for men. Now thousands of hours and hundreds of papers have been written on the subject, but the facts are clear, engage in sexual activity early in life and chances are greater that the female will divorce later in life.
So there are some other considerations that "this guy" needs to think about that were not mentioned.
First, has she or does she show any evidence that she has more self control now than she did previously? Engaging in premarital sexual activity is largely a matter of self control. It is gratifying the desire for fill in the blank, (love, intimacy, companionship, sexual fulfillment) now, rather than delaying that desire until marriage. If she continues to demonstrate patterns of behavior which suggest that instant gratification is a problem. Run away. She will continue to act this way in the future.
Second, John mentioned nothing about disease. Chlamydia and HPV are both sexually transmitted and not easily detectable. I personally have a friend that slept with one other guy beside her now husband, and she got HPV and is having trouble getting pregnant. One other guy and it may well lead to a childless marriage. This does not mean he should not consider marriage to her, but he needs to be aware that her past sexual activity may well have permanent health consequences for her, and may make her future childbearing less likely.
Third, what is her attitude about this previous sexual activity? Is she genuinely sorry for her sinful past, or is it treated as though it was a normal phase of life, she's more mature now and he must simple trust her to make better decisions in the future. If she has that kind of attitude, chances are it will be just a poor decision when she choses to have an affair or she decides that marriage is to restrictive on her personal identity.
I'm not telling this guy not to consider marriage to her, I'm only saying that he better have thought through all the angles a little deeper that what John wrote about.
Grace and forgiveness are Biblical and necessary, because we are all sinners and have made bad decisions in the past. But, if there is evidence that she is expecting grace and forgiveness without the resultant repentance and turning away from the sin, he will experience heartache far greater than losing her now, when her bad behavior resurfaces in the future.
And Jethro,
Why is it such an issue for men being compared 'physically' to a woman's past partners?
For the same reason that women with less that ample physical attributes worry that guys will consider them less desirable. Part of the human condition is to judge by physical appearance, and in our culture today, it is common for woman with sexual experience to compare the physical attributes of their conquests! That is a fact! Ask the women you know if you don't believe it? Besides don't you know that all guys are stupid, just ask any feminist.
11. Lance said the following at 9:02 AM on Dec 30:
I'm curious why he has waited until a year to have a talk about her past. It could be he did not know before but it would be helpful to know what his insight was to think she has had sex before. I would not suggest anyone wait a year before having a talk to find this out. Once you start saying 'I love you' this talk can be a deal breaker for some. Do this early so you both know where you are coming from.
12. Jon said the following at 9:03 AM on Dec 30:
I'm definately praying for both the writer and his girlfriend, this is very difficult terrain to navigate... I have been in a parrelal situation with a girl I was engaged to, and it was very tough.
There are so many variables in each situation, and sexual sin is a multi-faceted beast, and raises all sorts of questions and torments for both people - but the significance of this issue for a prospective husband should not be downplayed, and all of the feelings and thoughts of both parties must be fully (fully fully) worked through with trusted church leader - both as a couple and individually.
There is a lot I could say about my experience,but Ultimately it boils down to this: Is this the girl God is leading me to? whatever the answer to this question is his grace will carry them both through.
13. IMO said the following at 9:05 AM on Dec 30:
#2,
I don't know. Good question.
But I do see it happen.
14. Khalil said the following at 9:05 AM on Dec 30:
Bob, #7...
When I read comments like that I am truly grateful God is God and is who He is. What if God treated us all like used and soiled underwear? Using your approach He'd toss us out, because you know, why would He want us ??? Take into consideration Isaiah 64:6.
I am not saying we shouldn't have standards, hopes, and dreams of what a future spouse might look like, but as someone mentioned (think it was in the article) we do this for God's glory and are living our lives for Him. I hope you're not serious in how you phrased your response, even if you're not it was lacking in grace and taste.
15. IMO said the following at 9:05 AM on Dec 30:
"Here's a wrench to throw into the matter - what about parental approval? My parents are adamant that they will not give their blessing on a potential spouse who is not a virgin. What is a person to do in that situation?"
I don't even know where to start, especially not knowing anything about your parents or their reasoning.
So I will just stick solely to the question you posed.
Yes, of course, honor your mother and father. But not at the expense of disobeying God.
If your potential spouse is a Christian who repented of his/her sin, s/he is white as snow in God's eyes.
Maybe your parents see the potential issues or consequences that may arise with a spouse who was previously not a virgin. But those issues can be worked through (and probably not with your parents...probably a 3rd party).
The Bible is VERY clear about repentance and how God sees us as new creations in Christ.
Your parents seem like they want to punish this suitor.
They seem arrogant and pompous.
Obey God first and firemost. Pray that your parents see others (regardless of their sinful past.....since yes, we ALL have sinned and fallen short of the grace of God...thanks be to Jesus Christ our Lord) as God sees them. Redeemed by Christ's blood.
16. IMO said the following at 9:14 AM on Dec 30:
PS
So what farmer Tom can apply to the fruit of repentance part (and the issues/consequences that arise) for a potential spouse that is not a virgin.
That being said, why is this sin above all other sin in terms of the way we deal with it, in relation to a potential spouse?
Would the same level of critique and analysis be applied to another past sin? If yes, than great! If somebody has repented of a certain sin and has shown the fruit of that repentence than that's what matters.
And Bob, your analogy is disgusting and I truly hope you get off your high horse and repent.
Some of the comments here make me sick. I hope some of you are not as arrogant in real life.
News flash: We are all unpure before a Holy God. BUT Christ cleansed and purified us from our sin.
17. Rachael said the following at 11:12 AM on Dec 30:
I like this: "So as you think about this, you think as Christ would think. How could you do that, you ask?
That is thought number two. As a believer, you have been given the "mind of Christ." The very Spirit of Christ dwells in you."
--> This type of idea has come into my mind recently, though I was thinking more along the lines of 'heart transplant' and not particularly the 'mind of Christ'. They're similar concepts, though. Of course we can never have Christ's mind or heart, but His Spirit endwells the believer. That thought gives me more hope that change can happen. I may not feel like I can change myself, but, if God's Spirit is living in me, by HIS power, there can be change. HE can work the change in me. That seems more empoweringly hopeful, and I hope that thought will come to me frequently when I feel trapped by my sin.
A really neat verse that carries the idea:
Galatians 2:20:
"I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me."
-->BUT CHRIST LIVES IN ME.
I like that.
**
re: the last sentence of this post:
"If you're willing to lay down your sexual expectations for the sake of your spouse, there's very little room for sadness and insecurity."
I think this could be good advice even with the 'sexual' part removed. Expectations in general.
I've heard the advice to go into marriage with a 0-100% (rather than 50%-50%) mentality. I guess that will be impossible with me, but it's a nice idea. And I think 1-2 others have advised to get rid of or lower expectations.
I hope I'll at least be aware of the no-expectations concept when I enter marriage. Of course I'll have them, but if when married I feel disappointed because of some tiny thing where I shouldn't necessarily feel disappointed, I should think, "Why am I disappointed? He doesn't HAVE to do xyz."
Anyway I don't think I'm an in-the-clouds person as I enter marriage, but I get the sense that in relationships and marriage there can under-the-radar, unspoken unnecessary expectations that when unmet can lead to problems.
In this post is the advice: "First, you must have as your ultimate goal the glory of God. What I mean is that you can't see this as ultimately being about you, and you can't see this as ultimately being about her. This is about God. All of life is from Him, through Him and for Him."
-->I should remember the "This is about God" part now and when I get married (next month!). I'm so selfish, but, I should think, how can I serve God? How can I serve my husband (to be) as though I were serving God?
It's easy to write, but for me it's easier to be selfish than to be crucified with Christ. I hope God grows me in that area and hope He'll live His life in me more and more.
18. Chelsey said the following at 11:12 AM on Dec 30:
Having struggled with sexual sin myself (as a female), I have to say that I am a little shocked at some of the comments here. I understand that those who have kept themselves completely pure for marriage may feel distaste at a potential spouse who has not, but in a lot of ways, sexual sin is no different from any other sin. Like someone else said, it's a matter of self-control. Maybe you didn't have sex before marriage, but are you overweight? Are you addicted to the Internet?
Even if those things aren't the case, an individual who approaches marriage with that mindset will probably be severely disappointed once he or she is married and they discover other major flaws in their spouse's character. Love does not keep a record of wrongs, after all, and if you can't love someone before you're married in that way, I don't see how you could love them afterward.
I'm so blessed to be engaged to a guy who does not hold my sins against me. He knows my sin, but He also knows that I've repented and that when God looks at me, He sees Jesus in white robes.
19. NeedACatchyName said the following at 11:12 AM on Dec 30:
In response to Farmer Tom at #10:
What's the percentage of people who don't engage in premarital sexual activity who divorce? Without that point of comparison your statistic is meaningless. If the divorced rate amongst virgins who marry is lower, then that's significant. But if it's approximately the same or higher, then your statistic doesn't prove anything.
(sorry folks--engineer in the house here and I get really picky about improper statistical usage) :) :) :)
20. Sylvia said the following at 11:12 AM on Dec 30:
I just wanted to mention that I was impressed by the way the young man who posed the question to Mr Thomas explained the situation. He was open about the way his own insecurities factored into the equation, and at the same time, ever had his eye on how to cause his girlfriend as little hurt and embarrassment as possible.
I was touched by his passion for grace that equaled his hatred of sin and by his love for this girl. He wasn't going to pretend that past sins didn't matter to him, and couldn't possibly cause problems, and yet he demonstrated an understanding that this woman had great value in Christ and that he should treat her accordingly no matter what was to happen.
I can't really know the true details of this relationship and what real life issues will factor in, but I will certainly pray for this fellow and his girlfriend and secretly hope that he has a brother or two at home.
21. IWishToRemainAnonymous said the following at 11:12 AM on Dec 30:
IMO (#15):
"They seem arrogant and pompous."
I take great offense at this remark. You have never met my parents. I asked an honest question and got an attack as a response.
22. Liz said the following at 11:12 AM on Dec 30:
Bob, if I ever had a boyfriend who was as arrogant, unforgiving and self-righteous as you, I'd drop him like a hot potato.
Human beings who have sinned (that's everyone alive) are not used underwear, dirty toothbrushes, pieces of used duct-tape or any of the other metaphors I've seen used to describe sexual impurity. They are real people who make real mistakes but have a Savior who redeems them through grace.
23. Laura said the following at 11:38 AM on Dec 30:
Bob (#7), you said, If I am going to keep myself pure why should I not set high criteria for prospective spouses?
What do you mean by "keep yourself pure"? There's a whole lot more to purity than just not having gone to bed with someone. Do you mean that you've honestly kept yourself pure before a holy, omniscient God Who sees your every thought and action and requires absolute perfection? If you don't measure up to that one, that you really have not "kept yourself pure."
Being a virgin does not mean you're "pure." I'm a virgin. I haven't even kissed a guy. And that says nothing about whether or not I'm "pure." I stand defiled and guilty before a holy, righteous God who sees my every thought and judges me by His own righteousness. My own righteousness (or purity) is like filthy rags to Him.
I don't know you, but your comment reflects a very poor understanding of our own sinfulness and God's holiness and grace. You and I, virgins though we be, stand impure, guilty, and defiled before Him. And until we understand that, we are in no place to relate to others' sin.
24. Kate (who is applying to law school!) said the following at 11:39 AM on Dec 30:
This is just a bit off topic, but why on earth would my future in-laws know about my sexual status (for lack of a better term)? I'm trying to imagine a conversation about that where I don't sputter an "I beg your pardon?" and try to exit as gracefully and quickly as possible.
If you want to openly discuss it, than that is your right, but can't some things be kept private? Maybe I'm a prude but some things should be kept between husband and wife.
And this is a direct lesson from my mom-if you are old enough to get married, you are old enough to respectfully disagree with your parents, make your own decisions and take responsibility for them. She also likes to add that people old enough to get married are old enough to pay for it themselves, but that's another post. :)
I hope everyone had a nice Christmas,
Kate (who is going to have to use her future lawyer money for her wedding)
25. IMO said the following at 11:49 AM on Dec 30:
#21
Wow.
Ok what part of
"So I will just stick solely to the question you posed. "
and
"They seem..."
do you not understand?
I hope that next time you ask a question, you are more specific. Otherwise, you will get generic answers like mine.
And yes, if you ask such a generic question like, "My parents are adamant that they will not give their blessing on a potential spouse who is not a virgin"...It makes the parents look arrogant and pompous, In My Opinion.
Also, you give us nothing to work with and you expect genuine advice? It is impossible to do this in a post or comment. Your situation is not a black or white issue in the Bible. That's why your question needs to be more specific.
Here's a random example: If your parents told you that you should not accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior, and they would kick you out of the house if you did... Well, I don't have to know anything about the parents in order to tell you that they are wrong.
But here, you are asking a gray-area question in regard to parental authority with no information.
And yea I'm offended that you totally missed the point of my post...since I did take time to think about it and write it out. But guess what? It's really not a big deal. This is a blog with comments. Can't take personal offense at anything here or else your emotions will be up and down all day.
26. Liz said the following at 1:45 PM on Dec 30:
I would have a heart attack if my future in-laws asked to know details of my sexual past--it really isn't their business, IMO. I'd also feel really uncomfortable if my future fiance took it upon himself to tell his parents about my sexual status--virgin or not.
I'm trying to be careful here, because I don't want to bash IWishtoremainanonymous's parents (after all, they didn't post a comment, their child did). That said, I don't think that expressly FORBIDING to bless a marriage in which one partner is not a virgin sounds entirely reasonable to me.
I can understand parents urging their children to think carefully about their future mates. Questions like "Does this person have a good character?" "Do you have similar values?" "Does he/she respect you and help you grow spiritually and emotionally?" "Do you genuinely enjoy each other?" Etc, etc. But to hinge one's blessing on "Are you a virgin? Check yes or no." seems narrow-minded and misguided.
Maybe Iwishtoremainanonymous's parents also consider these other questions besides virginity; the poster doesn't say. But I would urge the child of these parents to have a conversation with them to discuss WHY they are so adamant that they would not bless such a union. Communication is really important, and if someone is adult enough to consider marriage, then they should be adult enough to have difficult conversations with their parents.
27. JD said the following at 1:45 PM on Dec 30:
I suppose there are some people who just can’t come to terms with a partner with a past, and would summarily disqualify them as a potential mate. That is a personal decision, but I feel sorry for those who feel it is one they have to make. I would posit that if you frown upon or even reject someone because they are not a virgin, you might be missing a lot of the point. God is love and his throne of grace is amazing. Our savior has the ability to wash away all of our sins. I have known many individuals in my life who have returned from personal depths and places in life where they were at risk of “being lost” in a life of sin. One of these is the strongest example not only of a Christian, but a husband that I know; fully devoted to his family and the Lord. In the end, it made no difference that she was a virgin and he was not. They were right for one another, and their relationship, which continues to grow stronger through Jesus Christ, is all that has mattered, and endured.
I guess at some level I understand why someone who has waited would use that as criteria for another. I would implore those who have this attitude not to judge unrighteously. Those who have known the heartbreak of this type of sin and the amazing power of God’s grace, love, and forgiveness can be every bit as capable of existing in a Christ-centered and successful relationship as those who have not. In the end, compatibility, God, and what lay on the heart should be all that matters, in my very humble opinion.
28. Jeremy said the following at 1:45 PM on Dec 30:
NeedACatchyName (#19):
"In response to Farmer Tom at #10:
What's the percentage of people who don't engage in premarital sexual activity who divorce? Without that point of comparison your statistic is meaningless."
Exactly. "50 percent of the women who engage in premarital sexual activity will divorce later in life." ... and 50% of women who don't engage in premarital sexual activity divorce later in life. That statistic actually indicates the opposite of the point Farmer Tom was trying to make; it indicates that premarital sexual activity is NOT related to divorce.
But, not to get too personal, Farmer Tom is not widely known in these comments for ... shall we say ... thoroughness of thought.
29. J said the following at 1:45 PM on Dec 30:
Bob (7):
You're absolutely right, in that it's probably easier for a virgin man to find a virgin woman, simply because of numbers. I'm a virgin woman, and I'd like to marry another virgin.
But here's the shocker: I'd rather marry a non-virgin who has repented and received God's grace and forgiveness than a virgin who isn't willing to extend that same grace and forgiveness to another human being (read: non-virgin woman).
Do I want to deal with what you refer to as social diseases? Not really. And so I hope and pray that whomever I may marry doesn't have any, and if it turns out that he isn't a virgin, that's something that we'll talk about.
Bottom line: I'm a sinner, saved by grace. I haven't had sex, but without God's grace and forgiveness, I'm no purer than the next person.
30. RJW said the following at 2:50 PM on Dec 30:
Since our human nature- the starting point from which today's world judges normality is completely skewed, it seems folly to consider another's sexual sins as any different to another's disposition to impatience or jealousy. All are sins which means they are completely shredded pastiches of the truth God intended.
Yes sex is God's expression of union between humans to be enjoyed in marriage because this glorifies him, but so does humility and forgiveness.
Whilst this man in question may have to confront her past sexual sins, she may well have to confront his pride, covetousness, workaholism, you name it.
I like what someone on Boundless said in the 'Guy's guide' and it's somewhere else here too- that at the alter we marry no more and no less a dirty sinner- we look ourselves in the mirror and our spouse presents us with difficulties we may be ashamed of.
All we can do is as we go through pre-marriage counselling, and if God blesses us with reaching the altar with said woman (in my, and this man's case)- then we get on our knees and beg for redemption through Jesus and that we seek forgiveness through him and a way forward.
We can do no more, and no less in order to confront our own sins and the sins of others.
31. Jethro said the following at 2:51 PM on Dec 30:
Farmer Tom,
I'm struggling to see your point... It seems to me the problem rests with the one who is so afraid of being judged. Not with the judge...
32. Jack said the following at 7:43 PM on Dec 30:
Jack, I got married at 34 as a virgin and, including high school, never even DATED a virgin. Most of these were girls I met at church or was set up by others at church. Unlike other girls I had dated, my wife had only one prior partner, so she was a catch. She made a mistake and I needed to forgive her, as she forgives my many failings. If I had decided to only marry someone who had never had a prior partner, I would still be single.
33. Kate (not the law school one) said the following at 7:43 PM on Dec 30:
I'd also want to know if she has been screened for STI's, and/or is willing to do so. It's not very romantic, and I know that ideally you'd be expected to take the person's word for it because you love and trust him/her. But after having internship experience in an HIV clinic... I can tell you that I would not walk into a marriage with somebody with a sexual history without seeing the paperwork from the tests. Not that I'd expect too many people to actually deliberately lie about a positive status, but they may avoid taking the tests because they are in denial and fear about their potential to have a disease, or not know they are at risk because they are not educated about STI's.
I suppose then the question is, "if she has an incurable STI, do I still want to marry her and form our sexual interactions in such a way as to not catch it? Or am I willing to catch it?) It certainly adds a dimension to the "in sickness and in health" thing and this is a discussion I have never heard in a Christian setting.
In terms of mental and emotional long-term effects, I'd also want to learn (as much as is possible) about the nature of her interactions and if she has learned any unhealthy patterns for arousal etc.
I'm not saying that one should not marry somebody with this history of scars from past sexual sin, but just that one should walk into it with open eyes, knowing what one is deciding to do. Maybe some people would recommend a more leap of faith approach?
34. Kelly said the following at 7:43 PM on Dec 30:
You know what frustrates me? Time and time again, I see advice columns titled, "I can't deal with my girlfriends past".
Why do we never see the reverse?
I know I have struggled SO MUCH with previous boyfriends' pasts. I've never even dated a guy who hasn't had at least 5 partners. It hurts SO MUCH. And all the more when there's society's expectations that, "Oh, girls just have to deal with it, that's the way things are." And the guys get the advice column because - oh no - they can't possibly deal with a girl who's been promiscuous!
It really frustrates me because I get the impression that the advice columns are attempting to be 'ground-breaking' but they're not, they're always from one point of view.
35. Melissa said the following at 8:18 AM on Dec 31:
I cannot believe the young man who said he'd drop a girlfriend like a hot potato... he's obviously not received grace. Coming from a past that is less than pure, but still being a virgin, i fear reactions like these. But time and time again, when i discuss with my mentors the fears i have, they affirm me by saying that such a person would be unworthy anyway. It's honestly quite repulsive. There are many faithful children of God who have fallen in this area, and i question that anyone has stayed absolutely pure from physical intimacy, impure thoughts, impure media, etc. personally, if i married or dated a young man with a past less than my own, it would make me even more nervous. I would feel like he wouldn't understand, and that seems to be where the battle lines are drawn here. But let's get real people: we're all sinners. One sin, in the eyes of God, is no worse than another. Excluding a believer on the basis of their past is wrong. Period. If God no longer remembers it, who am i to? it would do us all well to remember our own failures before condemning another.
36. Fred Walker said the following at 8:22 AM on Dec 31:
Kelly,
I'm sure Boundless would be more than happy to write a column from the woman's perspective. I haven't noticed Boudless writing from just one point of view - except a Christian one.
37. Ariana said the following at 8:22 AM on Dec 31:
While I initially balked like some at the thought of potential in-laws wanting to know about my sexual history, I think that in a general sense, this can be a very legitimate question. If parents have raised their child with a particular set of values, then it's legitimate to want to know whether the person they are dating/considering marrying holds those same values. This information can be found out without going into much detail, but I don't see anything particularly invasive in the future in-laws knowing whether you are or aren't a virgin.
As far as parents who will not approve of someone who is not a virgin, I think that as one poster mentioned, if you are old enough to be married, then you are too old to allow your parents to have the final say in your decisions. To honor your mother and father as an adult is not to do whatever they say. What the Lord has called clean, let no man call unclean. It is not ultimately up to parents to judge the worthiness of a potential suitor, but the Lord. Only He can say where their heart truly is. And if you know that they have repented and thus have received His blessing, then you should work hard to explain that to your parents. Sometimes a story of grace and repentance can be stronger evidence of a person's character and faith in God than someone who happened to never sin in that way.
38. Paul Clutterbuck said the following at 8:22 AM on Dec 31:
This is such a horrible situation! My heart cries out for them both. I went thru the same kind of thing with my ex-fiancee in 2007, when she admitted at the time of our engagement that she'd been in physical relationships before with several guys. I hadn't even touched a woman intimately in my life (and still haven't). I felt so cheated, I can't even begin to tell how painful that was.
Probably the worst thing about this is that, like my ex-fiancee, this young woman will probably struggle far more with sexual temptation that she would have if she'd been a virgin. Dr Dobson says in his book Preparing for Adolescence (which I read almost 21 years ago) that a woman can remain sexually pure much more easily before her first sexual experience, but the first time really opens the floodgates. This woman needs all our prayers to stay pure once she has repented of her sin. I would say to this guy, PLEASE make sure she is accountable for her struggles. Ask her to send you a quick TXT message whenever she needs prayer (just a 1-letter code is enough). Whatever else you do, pray, fast while you pray if you can, and really rattle the throne of grace on her behalf! But always remember Galatians 6:1 while you do ("considering yourself, lest you also be tempted"), and DON'T pray over the phone with her or in her presence.
Can I recommend Brooke Fraser's Albertine album for any young woman who finds herself in this kind of situation? It's very confessional in its tone, and absolutely breathes the spirit of Christian purity. Brooke doesn't shy away from sensitive topics like this, and believe me, she can keep us all from straying, pointing us back to the Lord as our deepest Love, the only one who can truly satisfy every need.
"For You have made us for Yourself, and our hearts are restless till they find their rest in You." (St Augustine's Confessions, ch.1)
39. A said the following at 8:22 AM on Dec 31:
JD
Thank you for your comments.
I am a female that has sexual sin in my past, and I have had a boyfriend break up with me when he found out about my past. Despite the fact that he loved me and could envision a future with me, he couldn't get over my past.
It was one of the most painful and heartbreaking experiences of my life, and I have found it really difficult to move on and let myself be open to other guys, because I'm a little bit afraid that any Godly man I would be interested in would have the same reaction. Reading your comment, however, and some of the other comments on this blog, have restored some of my faith in the fact that there are plenty of Christian men that are able to forgive and forget.
40. Fred Walker said the following at 8:22 AM on Dec 31:
IMO,
"Also, you give us nothing to work with and you expect genuine advice?"
Maybe she wanted advice that was a little more tactful? Yes, your advice was genuine but you could have been more understanding.
You had the option of not replying at all or you could have simply taken out these two statements:
Your parents seem like they want to punish this suitor.
They seem arrogant and pompous.
But you left them in. You even said that you don't know anything about her parents but then suggest that they are arrogant and pompous and want to punish her suitor (if she has one)? Based on what?
Would it be appropriate to apologise for offending Anonymous - even though you didn't mean to?
41. IMO said the following at 9:18 AM on Dec 31:
#40
You don't see how maybe your post is offensive to me? You've (inappropriately, IMO) called me out on something I have (so I thought) clearly explained.
I do not appreciate being picked apart for a couple of sentences versus not even bringing up my other points in my posts.
------------
"Based on what?"
My experience. My opinion.
Again, I will repeat:
"And yes, if you ask such a generic question like, "My parents are adamant that they will not give their blessing on a potential spouse who is not a virgin"...It makes the parents look arrogant and pompous, In My Opinion."
How about I use the term "Generic parents" and not "Specific parents of IWishToRemainAnonymous." Will that make you all feel better? How can I explain that this in not personal or specific?
This is how I see it: If parents or anybody, for that matter wants to hold a sin over a person's head and disqualify them from being a potential spouse (or whatever the case may be), that person is completely and utterly unChristlike in their approach. PLEASE go on biblegateway (MY favorite place to go, of course) and type in "Redeem" or "White" or "Sins" or "Cleansed."
For those individuals who have sinned and repented and have shown fruit of their repentance, they are full in Christ. They are covered by His Blood. They are redeemed and they will shine brighter and brighter in Christ. God can and does FULLY heal people who have greatly sinned in their past and now. So as you can see, I am passionate about this issue. The issue of the redeemed and how God sees us (We are clothed in Christ) and how other can see us.
To use a random example, how about those who have admitted their same-sex attractions (and want to not sin)to their church body?
What if a parent heard about this and didn't want their daughter at all costs to even affiliate at all with this same-sex attraction person?
Am I making any sense here?
I will not apologize for my passion to have people who are in Christ and who have been fully restored in Christ (repentance, etc) to be punished for past sins. That is not fair. That is arrogant! God has the final word, not man.
Acts 3:19
Acts 10:14-16
Hebrews 9:13-15
Hebrews 10:21-23
Isaiah 1:17-19
------------------
Ok well I'm done defending myself. Obviously I can't make myself any clearer. And so here's to YOUR right to have the opinion that I should have done something differently. Now, let me have my opinion.
This will be my last comment on this blog thread. I've exhausted my words on this.
42. JamesUK said the following at 11:25 AM on Dec 31:
I have to concur to being somewhat concerned by the implication of some of the posts that i have been reading. When teaching his disciples how to pray, Jesus raised the implicit point that though we usually refer to God's forgiveness being unconditional, there was one condition that did need to be satisfied. That is, that we must forgive in order to be forgiven, a fact he illustrates further with the parable of the unmerciful servant.
We have absolutely no understanding of the depths of our own depravity, the utter hopelessness of our condition before our Lord called us out to be his own. If we then, are convicted of that grace, we must extend that to all those we meet. To be a christian is to be a little christ. And on the topic of previous sexual sins, I will say to those who would hold it against a person, let you who have sinned least cast the first stone.
If Jesus would not condemn the woman condemned for adultery, you have no right to. And one final point. There seems to be an undercurrent on these discussions of a frankly strange idea. Namely, that in addition to seeking God's forgiveness for sexual sin, we must also seek forgiveness from a prospective spouse and/or family. May I ask why? I have to concur with another poster that i do detect a certain amount of spiritual arrogance and pseudo benevolence from those deigning to forgive the sins of their betrothed.
It is God's business to forgive. It is completely unacceptable for you to demand spiritual restitution of something which God has forgiven, not to mention providing the enemy an opportunity to afford guilt o the other party. He is the only righteous judge.
To claim injury for an action not affecting you, unknown before disclosure and pertaining to one party, is at best a childish strop and at worst emotional tyranny.
43. Tiffany said the following at 11:42 AM on Dec 31:
Amen, JamesUK!!
44. Fred Walker said the following at 6:37 PM on Jan 1:
IMO,
Sorry for offending you but I picked on only a couple of your statements because since you were trying to help Anonymous it didn't seem that in calling her parents arrogant you were helping her to see your point (and calling a person's parents arrogant is personal).
About your argument, you state that God heals but you don't acknowledge that He doesn't take away all the consequences of sin. It is therefore legitimate to look at how past actions will affect present relationships. To use your example of same-sex attraction, it would be legitimate to consider what affects this temptation would have on other relationships.
"I will not apologize for my passion to have people who are in Christ and who have been fully restored in Christ (repentance, etc) to be punished for past sins."
That's not why I suggested an apology. You could apologise for jumping to conclusions. You don't know if her parents have a good reason for wanting her to marry a virgin, but you assumed anyway. You also didn't need to call Anonymous' parents arrogant in order to make your point, but you did. You could apologise for insulting her.
45. BDB said the following at 6:39 PM on Jan 1:
Bob (#7) wrote:
>>I would drop her like a hot potato.<<
More than 20 years ago I said something similar, but the issue was drugs. I said I'd do that if I discovered one of my friends had used drugs. I told this to a high school friend.
For some reason, we could never connect after high school. She was always "busy." One time after college, I tried to call her. Sounded like I reached her during a party, and her dad (obviously not sober) invited me to the party; I could hear her in the background saying "No! No!"
I never did get to talk to her after all. She died of breast cancer at age 28. I had gone with her to her mom's funeral in Jr. High, also breast cancer.
Be careful about making such sweeping statements. One statement like that may cause your daughter to get an abortion without your knowledge if she assumes she'll be "dropped like a hot potato" if she get's pregnant.
46. BDB said the following at 6:39 PM on Jan 1:
Kelly (#34) wrote:
>>Why do we never see the reverse?<<
Part of it is that people make mistakes, and some of those people repent and return to the church. So, in this example, guy never leaves church teaching, but meets girl who did after she returns.
You do see a lot of this kind of things in divorce ministries. Often divorcees have irrational ex's and children in addition to the reality of a sexual past (hence the children.) Blended families can face challenges well beyond merely sexual history. Ponder the situation of a single mother (let's assume Biblical grounds for divorce) who returns to the church and hopes to remarry some day.
47. K said the following at 6:39 PM on Jan 1:
#39
Trust the Lord to lead the right man to you and to remove the wrong ones. I have sat where you are, repented, been washed clean....and have been married to my husband (who was a virgin) for almost 20 years now. We have six children. God is bigger. Trust Him.
48. R.L. said the following at 10:57 AM on Jan 3:
For those of you who would stand to hold someone's sexual past against them (a past they've repented of of course)...
I hope that you don't have a pastor, parent, or other person in your life who was not a virgin before marriage.
Maybe the only Christians you know were virgins before marriage (both husband and wife).
49. Fred Walker said the following at 10:58 AM on Jan 3:
JamesUK,
If we're covered by the blood of Christ it is as though we haven't sinned so therefore we can cast the first stone ;).
Sexual sin can be considered an offense against a person's future spouse and if so it is appropriate to seek forgiveness from that person.
And you have to be careful about assuming that people who hold sexual sin against a person are not doing so because of the results of that sin (and not the sin itself). As other commentators have said, you may not hold the sin against the person but you should consider the possibilities of STDs as well as any emotional fallout.
50. IMO said the following at 10:59 AM on Jan 3:
Ugh I really didn't want to reply back...but now I'm just tired of you misreading my post:
"About your argument, you state that God heals but you don't acknowledge that He doesn't take away all the consequences of sin."
Yes, I did.
What part of my following comments do you not understand?
"Maybe your parents see the potential issues or consequences that may arise with a spouse ..."
and
"So what farmer Tom can apply to the fruit of repentance part (and the issues/consequences that arise) for a potential spouse that is not a virgin."
51. Jon said the following at 11:02 AM on Jan 3:
Guys, I think its important you recognise these people are individuals and God leads his children differently...
@JAMES UK
Your tough approach to forgiveness does have scriptual basis, (and would certainly be appropriate in a post-marriage situation) but I think you're advocating a rather "black and white" responce to a very very complicated issue.
This was the attitude many christians took with me who viewed me as some sort of "holier than thou" when i was so cut up about my ex-girlfriends past.
"To claim injury for an action not affecting you, unknown before disclosure and pertaining to one party"
The potential spouse IS deeply affected by the sexual sin of his future mate (along with other key people connected to the relationship). Something has been taken from him, - this is particularly painful if he is a virgin and has tried to be true to Gods standard.
And this sort of thing can affect men and women in different ways because we are made differently.
Many many people are given the grace to get past this, and can enact the forgiveness you describe, which is brilliant, and most of the christian marriages I know can testify to this.
but many aren't given this grace, it depends what God has for them as an individual, he knows how to lead his children.
One thing i concluded after going through this whole issue with the girl i was engaged to was that for me Marrying someone who was not a virgin was not the right thing for me personally, and I reached this, not out of self righteuosness or arrogance, but through real experience - holding my throughts and views up against the plumbline of scripture.
Another one of my friends in a similar sort of situation did the same thing and concluded that he could deal with the sexual past of his fiance and they did get married.
Each person and each situation is different, sweeping statements are best avoided. Lets continue to pray for these two people involved.
52. Kelly said the following at 9:18 PM on Jan 4:
One more comment on future-in-laws knowing the sexual history....
My ex-bf had several arguments with his mother over my virgin status. She and I both thought it was right and he vehemently disagreed with both of us.
53. kyra said the following at 9:19 PM on Jan 4:
to Bob (#4) I was wondering what your opinion might be of a woman who was not a virgin because she had been raped? Would she be equally "unclean" and unworthy in your eyes as a woman who had sinned on purpose? Do you suppose that's what Christ would think of such a woman?
I guess I'm also trying to get at what you consider to be the most important of qualities in a prospective spouse...if a woman has been sexually active before but repented from those sins and kept herself pure after the fact, is she not spiritually just about identical to a woman who is a physical virgin?
In regard to the STD situation, I have a friend who was a virgin when she married, and later found out her husband had an affair, during which time he contracted an STD and gave it to her. Unfortunately she is now divorced, with an STD she will have to deal with the rest of her life. Should she bother never to date again, is she pretty much "all used up" and beyond hope in God's eyes?
54. Fred Walker said the following at 9:22 PM on Jan 4:
IMO, I would have been impressed if you hadn't replied.
"What part of my following comments do you not understand?
"Maybe your parents see the potential issues or consequences that may arise with a spouse ...""
True, I did miss that - sorry. But that does bring up the question that you acknowledged that Anonymous' parents may see other issues but you still claim her parents are arrogant?
IMO, can you see my point that you could have made your point without calling Anonymous' parents arrogant?
55. Jules said the following at 3:17 PM on Jan 6:
After reading the initial article "Her Sexual Experiences" I felt so encouraged by both the questioner and John Thomas's answer. I think that forgiveness and grace is needed in any realtionship, but for those of us who have made sexual mistakes in the past, there can be a fear that we will not get that from anyone. It was nice to know that this Christian man was asking how to handle this situation and how to make sure that he can be there to help her ("I have no idea what she could be worried about or how I could best prepare to help her through this. I would appreciate any advice you could give me or point me to.")
In thinking about all these issues (because such a conversation will very likely come up for me in the future) I stumbled across several Biblical instances which showed me the grace of God and how He asks us to show it to others. My first example is Rahab, who was a prostitute by trade, is mentioned in the geneology of Christ and is credited with righeousness for hiding the spies when they entered Jericho. The Bible does not say much about her life after the fall of Jericho, but it seems that her faith in the God of the Israelites changed her entire life - James 2:25-"In the same way, was not even Rahab the prostitute considered righteous for what she did when she gave lodging to the spies and sent them off in a different direction?"
My second example is King David himself. I seem to remember him having an affair, as well as murdering her actual husband. And yet David is considered the man after God's own heart.
Luke 7:36-50 is another example. Read it for yourself...who are we to judge another person for according to Romans 3:23, we have all sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. Whether we tell a lie, murder a hundred people, or have premarital sex, we are still sinners, and God sees us all as sinners. We as human add these values to sins - isn't a little white lie a lie just the same? If your potential spouse puts something in their life above God, then they are guilty of the sin of idoltry. If we are concerned about our spouse having sexual experiences in their past, should we not have concerns about this same person telling lies? cheating on tests in school? gambling? practicing witchcraft? gossiping? What about these past sins? While I understand that having a sexual past can put a strain on your relationship with your spouse, ANY sin can do that...what if your husband constantly lied? What if your wife thought it was all right for your children to gossip about other children in school? Are these not also things that we should be concerned about?
I agree with many of the things that have been discussed in these comments, but I just want to show that there is forgiveness for our sins, no matter what they are. We may not find it in man, but in Christ there is always forgiveness. I think we all need to take on an attitude of grace. In Matthew 6:12-15, Jesus talks about prayer, and this is part of what He says. I think this just shows us how important forgiving each other really is. So if any of you are ever in this situation, pray for understanding, for forgiveness, and for grace, because if Jesus has offered you forgiveness for your sins, should you not offer the same thing to others? Matthew 6:12-15 - "Forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one. For if you forgive men when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive men their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins."