Do You Have a Work Spouse?
by Motte Brown on 11/25/2008 at 11:58 AM
I haven't researched the subject, but I'll bet infidelity has been on the rise ever since women flooded the workforce in the 1970's. It's a perfect setting for forming intimate relationships. Where else can you spend such long hours together with members of the opposite sex?
And I'm not just referring to sexual infidelity. Emotional infidelity -- as well as other inappropriate attachments among singles -- can wreak havoc too. CareerBuilder.com calls them "work spouses," which are close platonic relationships with co-workers of opposite sex.
Here are some signs from CareerBuilder.com you should consider when examining your own behavior at work:
1. You depend on a particular co-worker for office supplies, snacks and aspirin.
2. There are inside jokes that you and a specific co-worker share.
3. You can be bluntly honest with this person about his or her appearance, hygiene or hair (and vice versa). You're comfortable enough to point out that the other's hair is sticking up -- or that someone's fly is down.
4. When something eventful happens at work, this co-worker is the first person you seek out for a de-briefing.
5. At breakfast, lunch and coffee breaks, your closest co-worker knows what to order for you and how you like your coffee (and vice versa).
6. You and your co-worker can finish each other's sentences.
7. Someone in your office knows almost as much about your personal life as your best friend or real-life spouse does.
If you're married, you should ensure you're not singling out a member of the opposite sex with these types of intimacy. And if you're single, you should be careful you're not singling out a member of the opposite sex with whom you have no intention of pursuing.
1. Seriously said the following at 12:10 PM on Nov 25
Depending on my office mate for aspirin is infidelity?
Hitting the coffee cart with a male co-worker is being unfaithful?
Seriously?
2. obewan said the following at 12:38 PM on Nov 25
It is not a problem at my current job since everyone is old and married, and I don't work with any single women.
3 jobs ago, I had issues. I had to suffer working with 4 young single women. We were all in our mid 20's. They were a source of constant torment and frustration to me since I would only date Christians. They were always prying into my non-existent "love life" regarding the Christian women I was interested in but not dating - due to that abysmal 12:1 ratio at church.
So, I had to suffer with the non-Christians at their parties and ski trips. We ate lunch together every day and had many countless dinner parties.
When our plant closed and we all got laid off, the woman I was closest to asked me why I had never asked her for a date. I did not have the heart to tell her it was because she was not a Christian - or at least you never would have known by her lifestyle.
So, I am still tormented to this day with the question of why the available women in that period of my life were mostly non-Christians.
3. Matt from DC said the following at 12:42 PM on Nov 25
Oh my gosh. My office spouse is a man! My boss. What do I do? We're good friends and I can check off all of these items. Help help help!
4. IMO said the following at 12:53 PM on Nov 25
Matt, maybe this is the reason you're still single.
JUST KIDDING.
To respond to Seriously,
As for as the whole coffee thing goes, maybe it's about the fact that this person has your preferences "memorized."
As for me, the two biggest red flags are #7 and #6.
If my husband's office was predominatly (sp?) male, and he best got along with a female I'd wonder why...
Most of the things listed...most people who be most comfortable doing them with the same sex...like #1, #3,#4, and #6 for example. So it would seem out of the ordinary to do this type of "comfortable things" with the opposite sex.
Do you know what I mean?
Like I'd go to my female friend for an aspirin for those cramps of mine...
Just my 2 cents
5. Lore said the following at 12:57 PM on Nov 25
@Matt: ditto...
I just read this out loud to her and we laughed all the way through!
6. mary kate said the following at 1:03 PM on Nov 25
matt from DC, you need to repent, and start counseling IMMEDIATELY. lol :)
seriously though, this can be a tricky area. currently (for the next few weeks, anyways :) i work at an ad agency where almost everyone is young and single and relatively attractive, and likes to go to happy hour after work. i've had to watch myself to keep from getting too attached to that good looking web developer or client services guy or whoever. it's tough!
7. Matt from DC said the following at 1:12 PM on Nov 25
Obewan,
I'm in a similar situation though I've also experienced the other side of things. I know and connect well with several women who are not Christians and pass up opportunity after opportunity to ask these women out on dates. I have learned that an electric connection, good conversation, and beauty do not matter when you and she are opposed on the most intimate levels (view of Christ). I was married to a woman who had all of these things and when I came to Christ several years into our marriage my striving for righteousness in my word and deeds became a constant source of friction. Now that I am single again when I considered dating a non-Christian woman God reminded me of Samson and his first wife (not Delilah). Their destinies were opposed. While they may have been attracted to each other on many levels at the most fundamental level their futures were in opposite directions. She was a Philistine and Samson was a Jew whose life's mission was to "begin the deliverance of Israel from the hands of the Philistines." So when Samson succeeded in life she would feel the loss. Her people would be harmed as his people were delivered. Remember that your final destination is eternity with God in the New Heaven and the New Earth and theirs is the Lake of Fire. Based on the Word of God and my life experience I see the wisdom in God's command. I hope that you are encouraged and walk believing in the unseen One who takes us on straight paths for our good. Also, how's it going with the widow you mentioned a while back? The woman asking you to lunch.
Matt
8. Kellie said the following at 1:13 PM on Nov 25
Considering I'm in my workplace office about 3-4 hours a week and my other "offices" are my car and living room couch, I don't think I'm likely to struggle with this.
9. IMO said the following at 1:24 PM on Nov 25
Matt and Obewan,
Please remember that you can share the gospel with these women, at the very least.
I say this as I think of my own experience. Before I was a Christian, I dated a Christian guy. Long story short, God used this Christian guy to get me thinking of spiritual things. Of course I don't advocate "missionary dating" ....but know that if a non-believing woman is interested in you, she is also interested in getting to know you and what you believe, etc. She may be more OPEN to what you have to say and what you believe in then a women who wasn't interested in you (in THAT way).
10. obewan said the following at 1:24 PM on Nov 25
Also, how's it going with the widow you mentioned a while back? The woman asking you to lunch.
Matt
--------------------------------------
We went to lunch Sunday. I will see her at Thanksgiving dinner Thursday. She invited me to go to dinner theater with her group again. I might have to ante up $53 if I want to go along.
11. Louise, 43 from Chicago said the following at 1:35 PM on Nov 25
Comment 9, if you are suggesting that people attempt to "share the gospel" with co-workers, please keep in mind that such an action in a secular workplace could result in a work reprimand.
12. mindlab said the following at 1:42 PM on Nov 25
I have read the research, and Motte is correct. . . marital infidelity increases as a function of increasing social exposure the opposite sex (what a surprise).
I think that most important factor in the building of relationships (appropriate or otherwise) is not the time spent, but the sharing of goals and work. Five hours spent working towards a common goal with a person will build more relationship than a week of meaningless drivel (chitchat). Hence the difficulty getting to know young ladies at church. . .
13. obewan said the following at 1:44 PM on Nov 25
Matt and Obewan,
Please remember that you can share the gospel with these women, at the very least.
----------------------------------
That was always an option, but they were all raised in the church in one form or another, so they were aware of the gospel. They were living in open rebellion and constantly mocked mainstream Christianity. I could only share through my lifestyle and be patient with them. I did have many opportunities to share my life with them on group ski trips and at dinner parties and lunches, so there was some impact I suppose.
14. Zusanne said the following at 2:09 PM on Nov 25
Funny, I've been thinking along those lines recently because I do have a friend (male) with whom I work--we could check off almost everything on that list. We've worked together for almost ten years.
Even though we've been good friends for most of that time, we've not really considered dating.
He's getting married this winter. I've been thinking how our friendship will change.
Something to continue thinking about . . .
15. kaj said the following at 2:11 PM on Nov 25
"Office spouses" are not an issue for me, due to the nature of our work and how the men usually like to associate more with other men than women.
Nearly all the men I work with are married and/or in a "serious" relationship. The males tend to have a "boys' club" type camaraderie, and are often chatting it up in someone's cubicle or office. Since I haven't been invited, I don't plan to try to break into the boys' club any time soon. (I do admit, I feel slightly envious of their camaraderie)
I do have a female coworker I talk to, but she's more "office mom" than "office spouse." When I do go out to lunch, it's either by myself or with other female coworkers.
I try to keep my conversations to the point and about the task at hand with my (very married) boss.
16. BDB said the following at 2:15 PM on Nov 25
obewan (#10) wrote:
>>I might have to ante up $53 if I want to go along.<<
Sounds like a good investment.
As for the co-worker who asked why you didn't ask her out, I thought of an idea for anyone else in that situation: ask if she'd be interested in doing X or Y at your church. If they balk, you can gently say, "I figured you wouldn't be interested."
On the other hand, it's possible that she never has had anyone present the Gospel to her. I don't recommend missionary dating. But I've also been surprised at who is willing to attend a church service when invited.
17. Carrie (the original) said the following at 2:38 PM on Nov 25
All except #7 make me a lesbian . . .
18. Sylvia said the following at 2:57 PM on Nov 25
I think this list is a good idea. Obviously someone may examine his heart upon reading it and determine that the fact that the receptionist knows how he takes his coffee isn't meaningful. But seeing as how office relationships really DO get out of hand and that does start somewhere, I think these questions are worth asking, and honestly considering.
19. sean said the following at 3:02 PM on Nov 25
I'm dealing with this exact problem at work. There are a number of young, attractive females that I work closely with. Most of them have boyfriends, but that doesn't seem to matter sometimes.
It's amazing that these girls really, really see a difference in me. They know I don't drink, party, and am very "religious." Yet they see me so happy, laidback, always cracking jokes, and usually enjoyable to be around, and so they're completely thrown off by me because I don't indulge in the things that they do, the things that make them happy. So they wish to know what makes me "tick," why I have so fewer problems than most of them, why I am the way I am, etc.
During some conversations they've dropped comments on me like "I wish my boyfriend knew that" and "You're such a good man, where are all the others like you?" They see maturity, sincerity, stability, etc., and are genuinely intrigued.
So I guard myself by telling them often why I am the way I am---Jesus Christ. I share the gospel with them in truth often, as they are always asking questions. By fulfilling Christ's commands of the great commission, I also set a standard for them and myself--they know I won't cross any boundaries, and I know that if I ever crossed any boundaries, I drag Jesus' name through the mud with me.
I'm so thankful that the life of Christ is being seen in me and that it gives me opportunity to share the hope that's within me, but it also causes temptation, and it's hard to fight off thoughts of "If these girls are seeing the truth in me, why aren't the Christian girls?" It's a battle.
20. Adam said the following at 3:13 PM on Nov 25
I can understand #7 being a problem, but the rest just seems like a natural part of being a co-worker. As previous people have noted, sometimes a "work spouse" can even be the same gender. It just depends what situation you happen to be put into at work.
21. kari said the following at 3:32 PM on Nov 25
"Due to that abysmal 12:1 ratio at church." lol &
AMEN!
We have some 28 women and 6ish men.
22. Kristen said the following at 3:46 PM on Nov 25
"We went to lunch Sunday. I will see her at Thanksgiving dinner Thursday. She invited me to go to dinner theater with her group again. I might have to ante up $53 if I want to go along."
Obewan, it looks like she's going out of her way to initiate contact. It might be worth putting in the money to reciprocate. :)
23. S said the following at 4:33 PM on Nov 25
Considering I'm at work from 8 to 5, it'd be really sad if there wasn't someone that I shared inside jokes with or knew what my favorite soup in the cafeteria was. The only one that sounds questionable to me is #7. If you go by just #1-6, then I'm a polygamist.
24. Tami said the following at 4:45 PM on Nov 25
I used to have an "office buddy" where 1-4 were true. We were good pals. I didn't ever cry on his shoulder, but we definitely would share our work-related struggles, grab lunch as a de-stresser, and laugh about TV shows and stuff.
He knew I was a believer. And I never had the sense he was "interested," nor did I ever sense any boundaries being crossed. But he was a good guy and was always looking out for people, especially the women he worked with. It was more of a brother/protector thing than a "spouse" thing. I appreciated it, and I miss having him around because he kept things lighthearted -- not just for me, but for a lot of people.
Funny thing is, he dated, and eventually married, someone from work -- who is definitely his "soul mate" if there is such a thing. :)
25. Michelle said the following at 4:57 PM on Nov 25
From what I understand, the issue here is emotional infidelity. It is getting along with a co-worker so well, that to onlookers your actions imply a more intimate connection. So it isn't the simple act of asking for aspirin that is in question; the key word is depend. It is one thing to ask someone for an aspirin; it is another thing to depend on them to supply it to you on a regular basis.
A lot of the points given occur naturally when you know a person very well and are emotionally close with them. For an example, it isn't a problem to ask your co-workers if they want you to get them coffee when you go out. It is another thing if, without asking, you already know what his/her preferences are and take the initiative to provide it to them. What you are able to easily obtain from another source won't be as sought after from your real/future spouse, which can cause problems.
I feel that for singles, this can cause a lot of confusion because it blurs things to the point where it is nearly impossible to tell who is courting who. It is hard to know that the person I like is available if he/she seems to be so intimate with someone else. If I think they aren't available, I will probably turn down or dismiss any signals that he/she is interested in me. I may even question the person's integrity, if he/she approaches me even though I perceive they are intimate with someone else. Talk about awkward.
26. Beth said the following at 4:58 PM on Nov 25
We all know that just matching up with one of the above doesn't mean you're going to jump into bed with someone. There's no map that points out the slipperiest part of a slippery slope. But as Christians, we should be watchful of our time and emotions, rather than dismissive. Thinking "that can't happen to me" courts temptation. Remembering that yes, I am a sinner and I am vulnerable to this helps me monitor my own behavior.
("Gavin" in "Fireproof," anyone?)
27. R.L. said the following at 4:59 PM on Nov 25
People don't actually need to read this article to know that they're slipping...like a song I know says..."it's a slow fade..." The things the writer says may seem silly...but someone who's fading into infidelity has his/her own equation of things that seem silly that might eventually lead to physical adultery.
We know if we're doing too much. People will actually have to end up looking in hindsight after they've faded into downright physical adultery. I think it's like any relationship where someone fades into unconsciousness...like a girl who thinks she is falling for a knight and shining armor but her heart is broken.
She will, hopefully, probably due to the heartbreak...come to.
It's sad that such unconsciousness can reach even the married and with such greater consequences. So...silly list of things...yes...but true.
I'll bet we'd probably need to hear from people who've actually had an affair to understand this better. They could teach others how to watch out for this.
28. Trevor Dolby said the following at 5:02 PM on Nov 25
Hmmmm. According to this, I'm polygamously gay, and adulterous to boot - quite a few guys (including married ones) where I work could check off 1-6, and possibly 7.
How does one go about repenting? Should I become anti-social, and stop providing a big tin of chocolate at my desk?
:)
29. Sylvia said the following at 5:09 PM on Nov 25
Why are so many purposely misunderstanding the purpose of the list? Haha, I'd be gay, I'd be a swinger, I'd be a bigamist. Ok, I gotcha that's cute. You have your relationships at work all perfectly compartmentalized and so does everyone else, and how dare anybody point out causes for concern.
Seriously, inappropriate relationships form at workplaces, a LOT! There has got to be intentionality and and a willingness to sacrifice when it comes to protecting one's marriage in this setting. That means that even though conversations with one particular person in at the office make the workday more pleasant, one might have to intentionally limit friendly communications with that person to protect both that person, and one's own marriage. Are we willing to have those 8 or 9 hours be "no fun" to protect our homes and families?
30. Rachel S. said the following at 5:43 PM on Nov 25
What about when the all people you have to work most closely with are of the opposite gender? There are still fields that are overwhelmingly populated by men.
31. BDB said the following at 6:13 PM on Nov 25
Hmmm...I did have a woman hit on me in a job interview once. THAT was awkward.
I also had one co-worker who would call me at random times and ask if I wanted to go to Starbucks. Eventually I realized that he had something he wanted to tell me away from the prying ears at the office - usually it was actionable intelligence, too.
On the other hand, my practice was to not go to lunch alone with female co-workers. I'd always try to grab a 3rd person. It's too easy for a male manager to be accused of favoritism or an affair if he is perceived as giving a female too much specific attention. Though I do think that those who go out drinking after work get themselves into more trouble eventually.
32. Carrie (the original) said the following at 6:15 PM on Nov 25
I was wanting to expand, but I was at work and didn't have time.
Someone already brought up the idea that if you spend 8-5 M-F in your workplace and you didn't have some sort of close relationship with your co-workers, that would be a little strange.
I have to agree. When one is at work, surrounded by 3 beige walls for 8 hours a day, you tend to soak up what little relating actually goes on at work.
If my co-worker(s) weren't the type of person/people that could tell me if my shirt was inside-out, borrow my ibuprofen, and pay attention to what I order (when I've worked with them for more than three years) it would be a pretty dreary place to work.
There are boundaries to be sure - they would be among the last to find out if I was seeing anyone - but there is a certain amount of relational intimacy that must be present in order for one to remain sane while being surrounded by 3 beige walls for 8 hours.
33. Ruth from Canada said the following at 6:45 PM on Nov 25
#28, Trevor...where is your desk? Yum lol
34. khalil said the following at 7:05 PM on Nov 25
to #30...
there are also fields that are predominantly filled with women. Try looking at counseling work and social services type professions. At least most of the women I work with are old enough to be my mother...so instead of a work-spouse I tend to have work-mothers :) Its good to be taken care of like that, I am quite spoiled.
35. DannieA said the following at 7:48 PM on Nov 25
wow...all my co-workers and I are lesbian then...LOL I guess working in the school system we tend to get into female cliques and packs...hmmm oh yeah sounds like high school.
On a serious note...value your relationships enough to transfer if any work friendship starts to get overly friendly (with the opposite sex).
36. Louise, 43 from Chicago said the following at 8:11 PM on Nov 25
I would personally discourage anyone from "spreading the gospel" at work or trying to convert coworkers (to ANY faith).
If someone were to file an official complaint, the attempted converter could face a work reprimand or even a suspension.
Louise
37. P&P said the following at 8:35 PM on Nov 25
"I haven't researched the subject, but I'll bet infidelity has been on the rise ever since women flooded the workforce in the 1970's."
Um, women have always been in the work force.
"Where else can you spend such long hours together with members of the opposite sex? "
Um, church?
38. IMO said the following at 8:36 PM on Nov 25
Hi Louise. No, I was talking about the outside-of-work environment (dinners out, etc) and also from my personal experience (which was not work-related).
I work in a very professional environment. I am quite aware of how to handle "spiritual" situations.
Ha. Handling "spiritual" situations means you don't. It means that if my boss says something about church, I nod and smile. :-) And if he notices the verses I have on a notecard up in my office and likes them, I say thank you.
And I would like to clarify and say it's not just about sharing the Gospel..it's about LIVING it out in front people. And if, for example, I liked somebody who was a Christian (and I wasn't a Christian) I would like to get to know them better and be more open to learning about their beliefs.
See I come from a Jewish background. This should explain a lot. It's not like I ever went to Church. I never did. It's a huge thing for a Jew to become a Christian. It's "betrayal" in the eyes of the Jewish family, though I would say I am more "Jewish" now than ever before..meaning I know more about the Jewish culture and believe in the OT.
Ok well I'm rambling.
But all this to say, that in my previous life as an extremely liberal perso--who literally shut down and closed my eyes if I heard the name Jesus Christ--I was interested in learning about a Christian's viewpoints simply because I like him...for the FIRST time in my life.
So I hope my experience is encouraging. That is all.
Hope I made sense.
39. composer girl said the following at 9:14 PM on Nov 25
Some of the items listed would just be signs of a good healthy relationships between bosses and secretaries, or doctors and nurses (With the exceptions of maybe 4 or 7).
Also, I echo the question of #30. What about those of us who don't have any same-gender coworkers? I already feel like I'm walking on pins and needles trying not to cross any boundaries, especially with coworkers who are dating or married.
40. IMO said the following at 10:45 PM on Nov 25
Wow Louise, (36) I thought you made your point clear the first time around. Not sure if you were, again, directing this at me. Hope my post (38)clarified my position.
But just to respond on your comment (#36):
I would never discourage anybody (regardless of their faith) to share it, no matter the location or situation. If somebody wanted to share their faith at work, fully knowing the possible reprecussions of doing so, then so be it. That is on that person. If that person gets fired, so be it. Why should that person be afraid of sharing their faith (any faith) with somebody who s/he is close with and in a personal (at lunch, for example) setting?
Everybody should check your company policy. And abide by it. And if I went out to lunch with a friend on a lunchbreak and shared the gospel in what I believe was an appropriate time...or at least shared what Christ was doing in my life...and in the very end, got fired for it. Then so be it. I'm perfectly okay with that. I was working for the wrong company anyway.
Yes, there are appropriate situations for everything. I've listed a couple of different ones. People should be able to handle themselves professionally. If the worst thing that happened to me was a friend of mine at work sharing their "New-Age" faith with me, then I'll take that any day of the week.
41. Rachael said the following at 10:54 PM on Nov 25
composer girl wrote: "I already feel like I'm walking on pins and needles trying not to cross any boundaries,"
--> Perhaps a spouse can also make another spouse feel they have to at times walk on pins & needles even when it's unnecessary to do so.
Caution can be a good thing, but, at the same time, an overfocus on some things might lead to irrational, ugly emotions and thoughts. That happens to me.
My mom recently wrote me this: "we ourselves are responsible for our own souls, to do what Scripture teaches, regardless of the other person and their responsibilites." She also wrote: "Your sun doesn't set on________ (person's name) and his doesn't set on you."
That's a good point. A good thing you can do for your spouse/marriage is to improve your own walk with the Lord.
That's what I'll need to do, and I need to improve my walk now.
It's good to remember that marriage isn't everything in life. My mom has a realistic view of marriage, I think, and I like that. Also in her long e-mail she wrote:
"The years won't be many. The main thing is your individual faith. In the meantime, God allows you to enjoy another person, and he you. In Ecc. it says you can find enjoyment in what you are given.
No big requirements of each other. Not unrealistic expectations,"
Small 'signs' of potential unfaithfulness or opposite gender issues doesn't equate to unfaithfulness. Sure, caution in interactions with non-spouse opposite genders should be exercised. But also the other spouse should exercise love & faith. I think this will be a challenge to me as I can often handing myself over as captive to irrational thoughts. But what I should be concerned about is my faith. Yes, if there was legitimate reason to be concerned, that could be okay, but I hope I'll learn to take my thoughts captive to Christ rather than to the land of irrationalia.
42. Jethro said the following at 10:58 PM on Nov 25
I think I might be a work polygamist...
43. Kelly said the following at 11:47 PM on Nov 25
I've had a few "office spouse" relationships over the years. Only after I started reading Boundless did I realise how inappropriate they were.
In each case, the 'spouse' in question either turned into a boyfriend or my best friend (whose heart subsequently broke because I couldn't return his non-Christian affections).
These days, I only seek out female friends at work. (Which is difficult when I'm generally the only girl in the office; it's a male-dominated industry! In my current position I'm quite lonely.)
But -oh- I REALLY miss male companionship and conversation. I miss having a male best friend.
44. Helkias said the following at 12:13 AM on Nov 26
P&P, women haven't always worked with men. Even today, women in America aren't paid as much as men in similar jobs.
And church is a few hours most of which are focused upwards whereas work is all week and has much less accountability.
45. Theo K said the following at 1:16 AM on Nov 26
"I would personally discourage anyone from "spreading the gospel" at work or trying to convert coworkers (to ANY faith).
If someone were to file an official complaint, the attempted converter could face a work reprimand or even a suspension."
It does not matter. We must obey God rather than men.
And if this brings persecution, so be it.
"Blessed are you when people reproach you, persecute you, and say all kinds of evil against you falsely, for my sake. 12 Rejoice, and be exceedingly glad, for great is your reward in heaven." - Matthew 5:11-12
46. Tara said the following at 5:54 AM on Nov 26
"I'll bet we'd probably need to hear from people who've actually had an affair to understand this better. They could teach others how to watch out for this."
My mom knows someone whose husband cheated on her with a coworker he had simply carpooled with everday for 5 years. He never meant for that to happen. But after 5 years of having this woman be the first person he discussed his day with I guess feelings developed.
I'm with those who say that, while the list may seem silly, it is important to be on guard. Sure, get to know your co-workers but keep your eyes open. That's all. No one's asking you to sequester yourself in your cubicle. Just be aware of any growing affections for members of the opposite sex--anything that could damage any existing relationships--either with God or another person (ie. marriage)
47. Carrie (the original) said the following at 6:11 AM on Nov 26
Louise - thanks for giving us reasons to spread the Gospel.
That's much appreciated. Feel free to give us more encouragement.
48. Lydia said the following at 7:31 AM on Nov 26
In response to composer girl (and question #30),
The majority of my co-workers are men and while they are nice guys (even a few are Christian, but I don't show favortism, not even to them), when a girl was hired, I made a special effort to bond and eat dinner with her, because quite frankly, a show of sisterhood at work (on top of living out a Christian life) can further act as a guard.
When the guys wanted to join in (which they often did), it was fine and we were a great group, but always, it was a group.
Some guys have been overly nice by getting me coffee and refusing to charge me, but I always insist on paying them back.
Don't forget that you alone are responsible for your actions. No matter how much time you spend with someone from work, a line should be drawn and if it's clear, people will catch on. I've found that initial physical attraction will fade fast the moment you realize the Spirit of God is missing.
49. Shayna said the following at 7:33 AM on Nov 26
IMO, I'm also a Jewish follower of Jesus (though I was raised that way, so thankfully I've never experienced rejection or hostility from my family). Just wanted to say hi! :-)
50. Trevor Dolby said the following at 7:39 AM on Nov 26
Ruth (33): Over 3500 miles away from you (if you're in Canada) :( The chocolate tin is a great way to make work more social: people turn up, eat chocolate, and chat for a few minutes. It has often helped people in different teams talk to each other, which is good.
On a more serious note, I work almost exclusively with other guys, so most of this doesn't really apply to me.
51. Louise, 43 from Chicago said the following at 8:00 AM on Nov 26
I would call the person "work best buddy"...and this buddy could be the same or opposite sex, since I've been an adult most of my friends have been male, so my best work friends have always been male.
I don't currently have a work best buddy, I wish I did sometimes (my latest one left my co. a few years ago)...it gets lonely sometimes.
One must be more careful with work friendships, however, than non-work friendships.
52. Nick said the following at 8:08 AM on Nov 26
Thanks for posting this.
It's a helpful diagnostic. Obviously, just because you have one of these symptoms doesn't point to infidelity, but it could be reason to examine your actions.
I think we need to evaluate our actions in more than just the work place too!
53. R.L. said the following at 8:31 AM on Nov 26
Like I said...the testimony of someone who has actually gone through physical adultery would be necessary to provide us with more insight.
The topic of adultery really hits home as I've recently found out that a really close loved one of mine confessed having been in such a relationship. I kind of felt that they had, because I believe they had hinted at it months earlier. And when someone is hinting at things, it is troubling them. And me, knowing that I'd been forgiven knew I had to allow this person to confess. Yes...it was awkward, but I did not let them know that. Because how awkward is our own sin??
I'm thinking that most of the comments on here, especially the ones that poke fun at the list are from people who haven't actually been in a physically adulterous relationship. The person I know, WORKED with the person...fulfilling your ordinary job requirements...until...
And, #29 has echoed what I wanted to say. Maybe nobody really takes these things seriously and that's why the divorce rate among Christian marriages is so high.
I dare us all to watch out:
12So, if you think you are standing firm, be careful that you don't fall! 13No temptation has seized you except what is common to man. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can stand up under it. Romans 10:12-13
54. mary kate said the following at 8:45 AM on Nov 26
yeah, louise, everyone's workplace is different. mine is ridiculously laid back; i work at an ad agency where we regularly shoot foam rockets at each other, where the president drops the f-bomb in everyday conversations, and i often bring a sock puppet with me to meetings :) it's a fun, chill place.
i've had several spiritual conversations with coworkers, both at work and at our favorite bar across the street :)
55. Louise, 43 for Chicago said the following at 9:24 AM on Nov 26
In response to comment 40:
I made my comment 36 because I thought my previous comment had somehow been "eaten."
My original comment is now appearing as comment 11.
So...I only intended to make one comment, sorry for the appearance of overkill!
:)
56. Louise, 43, for Chicago said the following at 9:28 AM on Nov 26
To everyone who believe preaching to co-workers is worth the risk of unemployment:
Folks, do as you will.
I personally do not think it would be worth the risk of losing the job, but everyone must decide what risks he/she is prepared to take.
And yes I agree it is probably wise to check your company policies to see what is specifically prohibited.
57. IMO said the following at 9:38 AM on Nov 26
I second #29's comment.
My pastor wrote an article a while back about his five moral fences.
This is his list:
1) I will not, under any circumstances, ride alone in a car with a female other than my wife or an immediate family member.
2) I do not counsel women in a closed room or more than once.
3) I do not stay alone in a hotel over night.
4) I speak often and publicly of my affection for my wife, when she is present and when she is not.
5) Compliment the character or the conduct - not the coiffure or the clothing.
He goes on to write, "Set up the "fence" in public. The fence is useless if I can take it down any time my sinful heart desires. To make it work those around me must know what I have committed to myself to and be willing to confront me if they see a fence broken down."
Why did he and his wife create these fences? Well, he also write:
"I was a pastor in seminary when the moral failures of the late '80's hit the news and they scared me. In addition to the newsworthy blowouts, I was hearing a shocking number of similar tragedies from my own circle of pastor/friends. I remember one Sunday night in 1987 when I cried all the way to church. I was terrified as I asked over and over, "How does this happen? Could this happen to me? How can I protect myself and my growing little family from the devastation a moral failure would cause? How can I be sure my actions will remain pure when men better and stronger than me were falling like flies?"
Now the question for married couples is...what is your list? What boundaries have you set?
I hope these article has given some of you married peeps some food for thought, regardless of whether you agree or disagree with his personal fences.
58. CC said the following at 11:05 AM on Nov 26
At my last company I worked for - I had a work spouse...we referred to each other as such. We still communicate to this day even though I've been gone for nearly 2 years.
The difference I think is that I also had communication with his wife. She and I had lunches and dinners together...our children were similar ages...I never saw it like that. If she called him and couldn't find him, she would call my extension...
One of the draws for us I think also was that we were the youngest in the office. We could just relate better.
I don't think that having a workspouse means that you are cheating or will cheat but I do think that you should be careful and aware. I think a good indicator would be if you are hiding anything from your real spouse...
59. S said the following at 12:11 PM on Nov 26
1) I will not, under any circumstances, ride alone in a car with a female other than my wife or an immediate family member.
3) I do not stay alone in a hotel over night.
Maybe a pastor could follow these two as part of his job. I wouldn't have a job if I didn't ride in a car with a guy or stay alone in a hotel over night.
I guess I don't get it... How is staying alone in a hotel by yourself overnight a bad thing? Am I missing something?
60. Tami said the following at 12:32 PM on Nov 26
S -- I don't think it's *staying alone* per se that's the issue, but perhaps staying in a hotel room alone leaves the door open to temptation (or the appearance of being open to temptation) in a way that IMO's pastor does not wish to invite. I think pastors face some serious spiritual attacks in these areas. Billy Graham has some crazy stories of things that happened to him... and his boundaries are strict and well known.
I find the counseling stipulation (point 2) more of a challenge. I like going in and chatting with my pastor. But indeed, the windows or door are open, depending on the nature of the conversation. What's more, pastors are often sought out for grief counseling or spiritual matters, and this can often entail more than one conversation. Again, methods of accountability can be put into place, but I wonder how this pastor deals with the "one time only" issue. IMO? You're best poised to answer this. :)
61. IMO said the following at 1:12 PM on Nov 26
Hi Tami,
The pastor I am writing about is the head pastor of my church. I think the family pastor and other staff pastors handle the counceling responsibilities. I don't know if ALL my pastor's moral fences apply to the pastor staff...
But I think that issue can easily be solved by including another individual in the counceling session.
My pastor is first to admit that there are challenges and inconveniences to following these moral fences. I, for one, am thankful that my pastor sets the bar so high.
Also, thank you for your reply to "S." You said it better than I could.
There are so many cases of fallen pastors...and it is important to figure out what steps into sin let them down those paths...
cuz well, we can all have the ability to easily stumble and sin...
62. Dan -real>name+ said the following at 1:28 PM on Nov 26
Hey S (#59),
The comment of not staying alone in a hotel room overnight does lack some explanation, but it is based on a common bit of counsel that I have received in accountability (read purity) groups that I have been involved in over the years.
This counsel is based on the fact that TV's in hotel rooms have cable access where pornography can be viewed, as well as having access to the internet. There is also the concern over having a "visitor" to the hotel room.
In my groups, many of the men had to travel for work, so the suggestion was to have the TV removed from the room - either by asking the hotel staff to do it or by removing it yourself. A friend of mine also removed the cable hookup that plugs into the wall from the TV. Some men will bring a picture of their family (if they had a family) to place in the room, as well as to call their wife and/or accountability partner(s) each night they are in a hotel room.
I hope this helps!
63. Jo said the following at 1:55 PM on Nov 26
I'm a little torn in this. On the one hand, I think most of the examples given are (for me) 'silly', as some have suggested. I have friendships at workplaces with males and females that fit into some of those categories. I think emotional infidelity involves a whole lot more than relying on someone for snacks. A work relationship with many of the features described in the post would not necessarily raise any flags whatsoever in my mind.
I think the phrase 'singling out' is important - if there is *one* opposite-sex person at work to whom these sorts of things apply, that might be an issue. ESPECIALLY if you're in a relationship with or married to someone else. And I agree that we need to be aware of the dangers and know our own 'silly things', as someone else said. We need to know ourselves well enough to know when a legitimate friendship is becoming a problem. This post is good in that it encourages us to think about what those things might be for us.
Ultimately though, I think it's different in every case. Two of my colleagues, a man and woman, met at work and have since developed a close friendship. He is married, she is in a long-term relationship. Their friendship is full of teasing and inside jokes and might raise questions based on this post - but outside of work, they frequently get together with their other halves, and all four of them get on very well. It's all 'above board' and there's no suggestion of anything inappropriate. That to me is perfectly okay.
64. BDB said the following at 2:02 PM on Nov 26
mary kate (#54) wrote:
>>and i often bring a sock puppet with me to meetings :)<<
So, from a legal perspective, is it OK for a sock puppet to witness in the workplace?
65. Rachael said the following at 2:27 PM on Nov 26
About the hotel issue...in the U.S., can pornography be viewed in a hotel room without paying an extra fee for it?
My ex-roommate at one point lived in house near Canada (several years ago), and I guess yucky stuff could just appear on their TV. I currently don't have a TV, but I wonder, is "technical" pornography (whatever that is) on 'regular' cable TV in the U.S.? I know there's lots of untechnical pornography all over movies and TV, but I wonder about the real hard core stuff and am wondering how accessible it is on TV.
As for rules like staying alone in hotels by oneself...this is all fine for an individual, and could be a repsectable thing, but we should be careful with 'rules' and how we might view others who break those 'rules'...
66. BDB said the following at 3:03 PM on Nov 26
The hotel one is interesting. It's usually a simple matter to block the bad TV channels immediately upon entering the room.
Personally, I think it's better to stay in a room alone than to share a room with a non-Christian. But that's probably because I had bad roommate experiences in college.
Frankly, if I'm travelling for business, I'm usually in my room WORKING on my laptop. If nothing else, I've always had to catch up on a cascade of e-mail that came in while I was travelling. You have to shut the blackberry off on the plane, and it gives me a headache if I try to look at it while riding in a car.
Though I will say the issue does matter. At one business meeting I was in line with one of my co-workers. She was near my age. The clerk mistakenly assumed we were getting a room together and offered her a 2nd key.
That was one of those times in life when immediate leadership was required...geesh...
67. BDB said the following at 3:13 PM on Nov 26
Rachael (#65) wrote:
>>but I wonder, is "technical" pornography (whatever that is) on 'regular' cable TV in the U.S.?<<
Most expanded basic cable channels (such as TNT or even Comedy Central) follow rules similar to broadcast television. Even Comedy Central bleeps out most of the swear words. They will typically edit movies down to PG-ish. The new digital cable boxes have excellent parental controls - it's very easy to set them up to block objectional content almost all the time. Even the music channels are now noted if they are "uncensored" and have a TV-MA rating.
68. Dan *real-name* said the following at 7:22 PM on Nov 26
Rachel #65:
I agree that the same rules cannot apply to everyone. In my post #62, I was just relating the counsel that was given out in a men's purity group. These rules ARE good for those that have struggled in this area, and MANY men HAVE to set up rules/boundaries for themselves AND have accountability while on the road.
There are men who are able to travel and stay alone and not sin, but there are also many men who are vulnerable in this kind of situation.
69. Charles said the following at 7:56 PM on Nov 26
My 'ex" had an affair with a "more spiritual" Christian man she met in the course of her work. I don't fault her or the man as much as I do her pastor and friends for not restraining this activity which they knew about before I did.
70. Rachael said the following at 8:37 PM on Nov 26
Tragic that Christians can have affairs...I don't really get it. I mean, I could get it. We're all human. But it just seems it would require such a conscious move. You don't just accidentally have sex.
But it's easy to point the finger outward without pointing it inward. It's all too easy to be self-righteous by thinking of sins in others without dealing with the same sin to a seemingly lesser degree in the heart and major sins in other categories.
71. Theo K said the following at 5:28 AM on Nov 27
[digression]
"To everyone who believe preaching to co-workers is worth the risk of unemployment:
Folks, do as you will.
I personally do not think it would be worth the risk of losing the job, but everyone must decide what risks he/she is prepared to take."
May I suggest, to anyone interested about what is the biblical view on taking risks, this book:
"Don't Waste Your Life" by John Piper
[\end of digression]
72. BDB said the following at 1:05 PM on Nov 27
It is not illegal to discuss either religion or politics at work. It IS illegal to make hiring or promotional decisions based on religious qualifications - if you work for goverment. Private companies have some more flexibility in terms of "fit" but different states have different laws on religious discrimination. You should not ask someone what church they go to in a job interview, just like you should not ask a woman if she's planning on having children. If the candidate volunteers the information, it's up to them.
If you are a manager, and are trying to share the gospel with your employees when they should be working, it is a lot easier for that to be characterized as religious discrimination.
If they are asking what you did over the weekend, and start talking about your church activities, that is not discriminatory.
And frankly, once you aren't working for the same company any more, the risk pretty much goes away.
73. Kelly said the following at 6:09 PM on Nov 27
I've travelled a LOT for work, invariably with another single male, and I don't think there's ever been a time when we are automatically assigned separate rooms. I'm very good at the straightforward, "Two rooms, please," and no longer get embarrassed.
The interesting difference is the assumption of marriage: western cultures don't assume at all, whereas Muslim cultures always refer to me as my colleague's wife and conduct the conversation with him.
74. Louise, 43 from Chicago said the following at 7:05 AM on Nov 28
Comment 72, I never stated religious discussion at work were illegal.
As far as I know they are not, but such discussions/preaching could be against company policy, so definitely check your own rules.
Now comment 71, I have a secular worldview, so an account of the biblical view of risk-taking would not apply to me.
75. a.k. said the following at 3:04 PM on Nov 28
When you work in the same office as someone for 3+ years, most of the things you mentioned occur naturally. i am married and take cares to avoid even the appearance of impropriety, but no one has even mistaken my colleague & i for romantic partners. We are simply Platonic friends, nothing more, nothing less.
i notice that none of your "warning signs" include physical touching. However, i think it's much easier to set firm boundaries if you are not a touchy-feely person (as many people - men & women both - tend to be). i am very anti-touching except for my husband & i think this helps ensure that my Platonic friendships remain strictly Platonic to all parties involved as well as to anyone speculating.
76. Joy said the following at 5:47 PM on Nov 28
Sounds more like a best friend than the person you are cheating with....
77. Chris Ashton said the following at 6:44 AM on Nov 29
Thanks Motte for your post. And thanks to those who have tried to keep the comments on track.
I have noticed three kinds of irelevent comments to do with this post:
1) the joking. It's actually a pretty low form of wit to keep the lesbian, polygamist jokes going after 73 posts.
2) the self-indulgent. Most of the comments on here seem to be people justifying why this post doesn't apply to them because, for example, " I work almost exclusively with other guys, so most of this doesn't really apply to me". A post about work is not an invitation for every reader to describe the vagaries of their respective workplaces.
3) the reckless. If you're a Christian, you should take this stuff seriously. It is reckless and stupid and arrogant to simply dismiss this advice as legalistic or impractical or only applicable to pastors. Work spouses can lead to work affairs which can lead to divorce. Not every bit of advice will apply to every person, but I know Christians who are now divorced and who wish that they had been more legalistic and said "no" to carpooling or coffee or business trips with a person of the opposite sex.
As an aside, the comments on evangelising at work have interested me. I'm in Australia where sharing your faith with workmates is not illegal. It's ironic that in America - often portrayed as the bastion of religious freedom - Christians are unable to do the very thing their Lord and Saviour called them to do in Matthew 28.16-20.
I'm not suggesting that Christians should spend their employer's time talking to people about Jesus (instead, they should be working hard at whatever they do), but where opportunities present themselves (and certainly in meal breaks with non-Christian friends) Christians are disobedient if they do not share their faith.
Perhaps we need more sermons on Daniel who (a) worked hard at his job, even for an oppressive regime, (b) was obedient and faithful to God as his ultimate master, and (c) was willing to accept he consequences of such obedience and faithfulness, even to death.
78. BDB said the following at 1:27 PM on Nov 29
You know, I need to say something after reading comment #77. One thing that is left out is that the people who know you well, and who can be blunt on things like appearance, are ALSO the ones who know you well enough to keep you accountable.
There was one time when I was scheduled to pick up a person from our corporate office at her hotel for a day of meetings which required driving around alone with her for several hours.
After 5pm the day before, it occurred to me that if this corporate person was young and attractive, it might not be a good idea to spend a day alone with them. So I called one of my managers in another city. She reported to me, but she also was a Christian and immediately understood how it could be awkward. She dropped her whole schedule for the next day and met me at the hotel and the three of us went to the various meetings.
The person did turn out to be my age and very attractive--and recently married. It was really nice to have someone I could call in for a favor when I didn't have a good business reason. It made things a lot less awkward than they could have been.
And yes, I know what that person orders at Starbucks - I bought her an extra-hot carmel macchiato to thank her for bailing me out.
And to a.k. #75's point, it does concern me when certain women suddenly start touching me for no apparent reason...
79. Jane said the following at 2:40 PM on Nov 29
I agree Chris. Picking at the technicalities like aspirin and coffee is over-looking the very real point trying to be made here - that people are increasingly forming relationships at work that are damaging what should be their primary relationships, and that these are starting with seemingly innocent steps.
My marriage was nearly ruined when my husband acquired a work spouse. It started with collecting cheesecakes and things for each other at the bakery - a very innocent activity indeed - but it lead to more. I wish he'd been warned like this about the slippery slope.
80. Keith said the following at 4:59 PM on Nov 29
One of the best ways to avoid any romantic misunderstandings at work is to place a huge picture of your signficant other on your desk.
I did that on my 3rd day at my new job, and it quickly became common knowledge that I was in a committed romantic relationship and was not available. Not only does this significantly reduce the risk of someone trying to become inappropriately too close to me, it also creates an atmosphere of accountability in the office because other people will know I am cheating if I become too close to someone else.
81. Theo K said the following at 2:01 AM on Dec 1
"Now comment 71, I have a secular worldview, so an account of the biblical view of risk-taking would not apply to me."
I am truly sorry to hear this. In this case, this book is more relevant to you that you could ever imagine.
Because you are indeed "wasting your life".
82. Helena said the following at 2:13 AM on Dec 1
Wow! Here I am reading this article and it's like someone has been taping my actions in the last little while. Let me explain..
I have been at my place of work for nearly 2 years now. In that time, I have become good friends with a colleague of mine (male) When we first met, he was part of the team. This year, however, he got promoted and he ended up being my boss. I can honestly tick 1-7 without hesitation and it's an amazing reality check and conviction!
The thing is, he has a girlfriend and he's not a christian. Even though i have not gone out of my way to seduce him, during my acts of kindness and in my offering of friendship, i see there's a bond growing between us. How do i know this? Because other people see it too!
I am not the type of person to pursue a guy, neither am i a relationship breaker! But, i see that clearly, my actions are not doing myself or him any good.
I confess that there is an attraction, connection between us, but, I also know that it's nothing because he does not have a personal relationship with Jesus.
How do i pull back the reigns?
I need help!
83. Tami said the following at 10:06 AM on Dec 1
Chris Ashton, you make some good points about taking this more seriously; however, the very nature of a blog post is that it will elicit readers' responses and opinions, which will (in this case) quite naturally fall into the category of what happens in their own work situation. So, personally, I wouldn't expect people *not* to share "the vagaries of their respective workplaces," especially when the blog title includes a question posed to the reader ("do you have a work spouse?"). Know what I mean? :)
84. Tami said the following at 11:41 AM on Dec 1
Helena -- one thing you can do is ask about his girlfriend at any natural opportunity. Also, if you have any opportunity to compliment her (talk about how nice she looks if you see a photo; remark on her purse, pin, or other "neutral" item if you meet her; if he mentions that she did something kind for him, say "wow, she sounds really thoughtful"), do so. There's no need to go overboard, but at the very least, such comments indicate you're aware that he has a girlfriend and you respect their relationship; also, it indicates that you have good will towards her.
Another thing to do is pull back and make more connections with female coworkers. Your relationship is going to *have* to change because he's now your boss, anyway; this gives you a good opportunity to redefine your work relationship in terms of how you treat him. Besides, the *last* thing you want is for stuff to get around that he favors you for whatever reason... even if it's just that you are close friends. So concentrate your good will and kindness into efforts towards being a great *employee*, rather than on doing nice things for him in particular.
85. IMO said the following at 12:57 PM on Dec 1
"I confess that there is an attraction, connection between us, "
Tami, it doesn't seem like Helena respects their relationship...otherwise how would an "attraction" and "connection" have formed?
If my husband formed a "attraction" and "connection" with another employee, he and that employee would both have no respect for my relationship with him. Bottom line. No excuses. Let's not sugar coat what is going on.
You probably would have pulled back from him earlier...but you are obviously getting something from this friendship of yours. Maybe you feel good around him or you enjoy the connection on some level.
Then again, I'm responding to your comment and may not know what is fully going on with you.
Tami--If Helena had this "attraction" and "connection" with a boyfriend of yours, would you give her such kind words or would you just tell her like it is? I'm seriously asking you...
86. Tami said the following at 2:24 PM on Dec 1
IMO, I can tell that hit a nerve with you...
I was attempting to *kindly* advise Helena on how to back off. She's already convicted to change, knows she needs to back off, and was asking for advice on how to do so. Because I don't know her beyond what she's written, it's difficult for me to "tell it like it is" (if by that you mean speak in harsher terms).
Obviously, if respect doesn't exist, then it has to be created. Perhaps it was my mistake that I assumed it existed -- clearly, she knows about his girlfriend, and it does not appear that she set out to disrupt their relationship.
If the situation is much deeper than what *I* thought, honestly I would recommend changing jobs.
As to what I would do if it was my own boyfriend, I would make sure the girl was well aware of my existence -- and advise *him* to back off from her, too. If it was my own situation, I would know more and would address it more directly (and firmly... whatever was needed).
87. IMO said the following at 2:33 PM on Dec 1
"tell it like it is"= stern and to the point. It doesn't have to be harsher.
Helena,
Shouldn't you have been convicted to change when you realized that both of you had an attraction and connection to each other, considering he had a girlfriend. Why not back away before?
That's my issue.
Did you really think it was ok to have this mutual attraction and connection when he has a girlfriend?
88. BDB said the following at 3:08 PM on Dec 1
BDB pondering carefully whether to get between Tami and IMO on this one...
Is there a difference in how much you pull back before and after someone is married?
Married = obviously off limits, if necessary change jobs to alleviate the tension.
Non-Christian = Definitely needs some distance to not confuse the issue.
I guess the question that comes to mind is that if the man wants a woman to take a step back from her relationships with other men, he needs to propose...until he makes the commitment, and she accepts, she is not yet bound by the "forsake all others" vow...
Do vows matter? Or not?
89. Tami said the following at 4:12 PM on Dec 1
BDB -- I, too, considered that befriending/singling out a *married* or engaged man is different than one with a girlfriend, with respect to the seriousness of the relationship. A girlfriend can say "I have had enough of this, and don't have to put up with it", while a wife has a far more significant and serious thing at stake.
To be clear, I am definitely not saying that the boundaries between a boyfriend and girlfriend shouldn't be respected or taken seriously, or that it's cool to develop relationships to attached people. But the consequences of developing a close relationship with a *married* man are far far greater than those of developing one with a non-married man.
And I will also say I've seen men at work change the way they interact with women, once they've gone from "not married" to "married."
So I say, vows make a difference, at least in regards to the consequences.
90. Chelsea Moore said the following at 4:25 PM on Dec 1
Thank you, Mr. Ashton, for expressing my own inner thoughts. I would like to see the "excess" curtailed somehow--for this and other Boundless articles.
I sought out this blog, thinking I would meet mature, loving, intelligent Christians to discuss things with. Yet in many ways, the messages that get posted cause me to furrow my brow.
There is a paragraph above that implies oversight of this blog, but I have yet to see it. Regrettably, the vast majority of forums, chats, blogs on the Internet exhibit a free-for-all quality.
As for my opinion on the list, it conjures up images of Laverne and Shirley and like characters--a kind of silly, insecure, co-dependant relationship. College roommates? I think the idea was good, but the execution was not. Yes, unhealthy workplace relationships develop, but perhaps largely as a result of OTHER
precipitating factors?
By the way, as to the legality of sharing one's faith in the workplace, isn't the ability to practice one's faith a protected right under the law? So Christians are more than free to share the gospel, except if the sharing should take on a harassing quality.
91. Kim said the following at 7:44 PM on Dec 1
It can't seriously be wrong to have an "attraction" between two people, even if both are married to other people, can it?
Attraction is a natural reaction. It's what you do about the attraction that matters.
And do people on this blog believe that having a "bond" with an opposite sex person you're not married to is wrong? So you would be against having opposite gender friends once you get married?
Of all people, I understand the importance of boundaries and caution in opposite sex relationships. I just didn't realize getting married meant I could barely speak to another man again.
92. Helena said the following at 3:12 AM on Dec 2
Firstly, Tami, thank you so much for your words of wisdom and for your sound advice. I do take it on board.
I do have a lot of respect for his girlfriend and I always have that in the forefront of my mind in my interactions with my friend (boss) I agree also about the *favours* thing. Yes, that is the last thing i want to see happen in my workplace. As far as forming relationship with colleagues of the same sex, i already do that. I have formed some great friendships, with both genders.
"Tami, it doesn't seem like Helena respects their relationship...otherwise how would an "attraction" and "connection" have formed?"
Imo - as far as the above comment is concerned. I beg to differ, just because we have this "connection" and "attraction" to one another, doesn't mean that I don't respect their relationship. I do respect it, and you can't help it when you connect with someone nor have an attraction to them. It will be a different story if I actually acted upon and encouraged this attraction, but, I'm not.
This has only come to the fore more strongly in the last couple of months and I have been laying this on the altar before God, constantly. This is also why I am now backing off.
I didn't seek out to gain a "connection" and "attraction" with this guy, far from it. I didn't even know he had a girlfriend, until a few months ago when he mentioned her for the first time!
In sincerity of heart, I don't want to seduce this guy or break up his relationship. The bottom line, i met a guy, became good friends, connected on many levels and discovered an equal attraction between us.
Now, at my discovery of a girlfriend, I just want to back off and continue the friendship, but, strictly on a professional level.
Thanks again for your advice Tami. I hope I have answered your questions Imo.
Thanks again. :)
93. IMO said the following at 7:24 AM on Dec 2
I agree about the distinction BDB made. There really is (obviously) a huge difference between married and a dating relationship...
I guess I just think back to my attraction and connection to a non-Christian guy from work (who was single). And that did not work out so well. I will spare you the details. But I did know that I was going into dangerous territory by having an "attraction" and "connection." And it turned into a more-than-friends thing. I let it happen, fully knowing at the time, how damaging it was for my faith and walk with the Lord.
So to me, it's like, how can somebody not be aware of their situation? It just surprises me.
There should be red flags all over the place...especially because the co-worker is a non-Christian.
94. IMO said the following at 8:46 AM on Dec 2
Hi Helena,
Thank you for your kind respond. And you sound like you have a good head on your shoulders and are wise enough to make good decisions. You know what's funny, my now-husband, brought me up all the time, as soon as we started dating. So it's just weird and red-flaggish (for his gf) to hear how this guy hasn't talked about his gf or at least had pics of her in his cube, now office.
This is where we disagree:
You said, "you can't help it when you connect with someone nor have an attraction to them."
I believe that I can help it (at least on the connection part). A connection comes from interaction.
It sounds very passive to say "I can't help it" regardless of any situation one might find themselves in. And this also takes away from accountability. Like, "I can't help" I'm like this. "I can't help" I'm sinning against you..after all, I am a sinner. Know what I mean? That phrase just doesn't sit right with me.
That's all.
To expound on more extreme examples,I think I have heard the same "I can't help it" attitude from people writing into an advice columnist, saying "I can't help falling in love with this man/woman...I'm going to leave my husband" or "I can't help it when I get anger. Those kids deserve to get beat."
95. BDB said the following at 12:31 PM on Dec 2
Let's see - I have a real-life example, but I'm not suggesting anyone imitate it. I had a friend in college who told me she WAS going to marry a certain guy. He was dating someone else at the time. Her interest forced a conversation with the other woman, who was apparently not interested in moving forward. Indeed, my friend married him two years later. (And no, I don't think she ever read Elisabeth Elliot's opinion on women going after men.)
I do think these kinds of boundaries change as people become more secure in their marriage. I will give two examples.
One is my grandparents. At their 50th or 60th wedding anniversary, I forget which, one of their friends was relating how they were so conservative before they were married - and how after they got married, if friends came over and it was really cold, they'd all pile into bed together. Seems different, I know - but this was the great depression when it literally could be a choice between buying food or heating the apartment.
Today, all these married women I went to high school with are friending me on facebook. These are people I haven't talked with since high school. But I notice that their facebook page is completely built around their family - kid pictures, etc. They don't see it as inappropriate to communicate with men who aren't their husbands. They're obviously quite confident in their married identity. Perhaps it takes a few years to get there.
96. Sarah said the following at 6:55 PM on Dec 3
Keep in mind ways to foster appropriate, positive interactions between co-workers of the opposite sex. Especially in professions where there are few experienced women, men may get more one-on-one mentoring, networking, and work critique. They are invited into private offices and taken out to lunch for these purposes.
I understand that more experienced men just want to maintain healthy boundaries, but women can still be a positive part of the team. Mentoring can take place in groups. You could go to a conference room or coffee shop as a group, for example. For one-on-one mentoring, companies might want to prioritize assigning new female workers to older female mentors. Her experiences may be more relevant, and the new employee is less likely to be short-changed by a mentor who is just trying to be cautious.
I also think that, in any work situation, involving spouses is a great idea. My co-workers wives are really interesting, thoughtful women—I love having them at office events!
97. Lydia said the following at 12:20 PM on Jan 23
HAHA! The comments on here are hilarious! Office work can be pretty funny at times.
As for me, I don't seem to have any of the above problems.
Office spouse. That is funny.