Does Your Church Help Singles Marry?
by Candice Watters on 10/02/2008 at 8:16 AM
I received an email today from a Boundless reader in response to Mind the 'Single-Minded' Church. She wrote,
I loved your article on "Mind the 'Single-Minded' Church." Could we have a posting on The Line about this article so we could open it up for comment? I would really like to ask the Boundless readers the following:
What practical steps are their churches taking to help their singles move toward marriage?
How can churches encourage marriage in a way that does not alienate single men?
Do readers have examples of things from their churches that have "worked" in producing new marriages?I am in a very pro-marriage church, but the focus is solely on strengthening marriages that already exist. There is almost no focus on creating marriages or in providing help for singles to marry well. My singles pastor even told me recently, "I can only talk about marriage a few times a year, otherwise, people get turned off." Needless to say, I have stopped attending the singles group.
My sense is that even if pastors are concerned that singles are delaying marriage, they don't know what to do about it, and I think that's the next area to focus on. ... It would be great to get other's ideas about what is working out there to help singles marry.
Thanks for all you do.
So what are your thoughts? Do you have a pastor who's helping singles marry well?
1. obewan said the following at 8:33 AM on Oct 2:
It gets really messy in some groups. In the group I am in now, 97% of the singles are divorced. My church will re-marry divorced people, but I am sure there is some counseling involved. They need to know the reason for the divorce to determine if a biblical marriage is possible. I am not sure they do that. But at other churches, some divorced people are told they cannot remarry. Rather than deal with the dirty diapers over the issue, a lot of churches avoid the topic altogether.
2. Melanie said the following at 8:54 AM on Oct 2:
Our church has a singles' group (well, really young adults of all persuasions but it's really the singles that populate it) and I was told initially at joining that the point of the group is to create a support group for singles but not necessarily to match them up. However, all matches are celebrated and not discouraged!
On a personal note, the pastor's wife was instrumental in calling my fiance and me to each other's attention. She's going to be the Matron of Honor at our wedding this January!
3. mary kate said the following at 9:03 AM on Oct 2:
i go to a gigantic church. it was founded by people who wanted to have a place they could bring their friends to church with them. some of you might call it seeker-oriented, but i don't know that i'd call it that. it's a challenging place; one where the pastor has been known to say 'if you're not involved in this community, if you just show up every sunday and fill a seat, then you can leave. someone else could sit there." a little harsh, yes, but motivated out of love and a desire to see people grow.
all that to say, we don't have a specific thing on how to get married faster/better. we have premarital counseling, and a 20something group, and all kinds of community groups oriented toward various people and things (financial peace, divorce recovery, abuse recovery, women only, men only, fathers only, etc)
i agree with some of the article; we singles need to be surrounded by families and a messages about and for families. however, some practical messaging about how to get there (in a good, healthy way) i think would really benefit a lot of my friends. someone speaking out against the hookup culture, against passive men and too-aggresive women, against solid boundaries, etc, would really help us all out alot. i feel like most average 20somethings are clueless about how to have healthy dating relationships.
4. Phil Craig said the following at 9:18 AM on Oct 2:
I'm sorry: her church has a "singles pastor" and a "singles group"? That's the first time I've ever heard of that...if she means there is a staff member and a group specifically to support singles, she's got it better than any other church I've heard of. Maybe it's a UK thing...
5. mindlab said the following at 9:27 AM on Oct 2:
"What practical steps are their churches taking to help their singles move toward marriage?"
Be honest and forthright about the benefits of marriage; scripture and church history and liturgy are chock full of emphasis on the blessings of marriage.
"How can churches encourage marriage in a way that does not alienate single men?"
Seems to me (a single man) that if someone is turned off by encouragement toward marriage, that's a reflection of their attitude as much as a reflection of the encouragement.
"Do readers have examples of things from their churches that have "worked" in producing new marriages?"
No, but I do have one suggestion: provide an event for young people to meet (and preferable work) together. . . and then stand back and keep your mouth (mostly) shut. Telling me, "oh, you and Suzie Q would be great together" is worse than useless if there's no way for me to meet her. If you just keep your opinions to yourself, host a dinner party, and introduce us there, that would be great.
More than once, well meaning people have pointed out young ladies to me, apparently expecting that I will (based entirely on their recommendation) walk up to the lady, introduce myself, and ask her on a date. These same people could easily have arranged dinner, a picnic, or a bowling trip, but never seem to get around to it. Maybe I'm a prude, but it seems like friendship (or at least acquaintance) should precede one-on-one dating.
6. DannieA said the following at 9:31 AM on Oct 2:
umm we have a church that is pro-family so all it's resources go to the already married/family venue. It's not a bad thing, it's just how it is.
7. LDB said the following at 9:52 AM on Oct 2:
Well last summer my pastor issued a challenge to all the single men. He said if you are not called to celibacy then you need to be working towards getting a wife. So he gave a mandate that was essentially this: In one year I want all men (who want a wife one day) to have somebody--meaning to be in a relationship or at least have someone they have their eye on and are working towards. He wanted the men to be proactive about marriage and start taking the initiative.
Now a year later there seems to be a wedding every month at church...some young couples, some not so young. My best friend started dating a wonderful guy from the church about six months after "the mandate" (which is what we have come to call it) and they are looking to get married next summer.
It's been very encouraging. However now that "the mandate" was issued and marriages are starting to happen concerns have begun to arise. Now some have said that there is too much emphasis on marriage...that maybe because of the marriage mentality of the church people are getting married too early because they feel pressured.
Hmmm....it seems that no matter what you do when it comes to this issue there will be complaints. Too much focus on marriage...not enough focus. Marriage happening too fast...marriage not happening fast enough.
Still I think that what my pastor did was a step in the right direction and I love being a part of a church where marriage is esteemed and emphasis is placed on the man's role in helping it happen. I feel secure being single at the church (except for the occasional Sunday when I walk in alone and feel a bit awkward until I find someone), but I also feel a healthy urgency when it comes to marriage. It's a good balance.
8. Rachael said the following at 10:03 AM on Oct 2:
That is not the pastor's main job, in my opinion.
I wouldn't want to go to a singles group where marriage and dating was a constant sermon focus either.
Of course there are so many different ways that people meet their spouses. Getting out there and changing the social scenery seemed to be of help for me. Not married yet, so I may be speaking too soon, but it is possible we may marry in the near future.
As for what the church can do, the believers are the church. So if there is a person or couple in the church with a heart for matchmaking, matchmaking certain individuals, or hospitality, one thing they could do is invite select individuals over for dinner, lunch, dessert, or games. They could be a little strategic. They could let people know of their intentions or simply keep the thought in the back of their minds. They could invite couples and singles or just singles. Or they could have open invitiations where anyone who is interested could come over.
9. Brian K said the following at 10:31 AM on Oct 2:
I think I have a question right off the bat on:
My singles pastor even told me recently, "I can only talk about marriage a few times a year, otherwise, people get turned off." Needless to say, I have stopped attending the singles group.
“Needless to say”? I understand the sentiment, but if a pastor (or group leader) at every meeting came and spoke on marriage, I would see the focus as being marriage and not the community of Christ. I.e. holding marriage higher than being continually fed. That (in my very humble opinion) has an extremely me-centric mentality. And not in the sense of “Lord, please feed me”. But I do understand the underlying sentiment.
Personally, I am recently married (hence no longer in my church singles group, but served for several years) and I have some observations.
First, the single biggest practical step in preparing singles to marry is simply getting a group of single Christian men and women together. The commenter above is correct, that a 1-on-1 date isn’t just an “out of the blue”, so get groups of people together and don’t sit back. I would say that you are what your singles group is (in the mindset of marriage). If you are in a singles group and you come on Sunday mornings (or Wednesday evenings or….), then go home, then there is no place for complaints. Our singles group first and foremost studied the bible. But we also ensured a common area to alert everyone of group functions. In some ways it was formal (there was a concept of “ministry” activities and member activities. We tried hard not to purposefully cause conflicts). The key, though, is that if you want to get to know someone or want someone to get to know you, you can’t be static. Plan a game night (those, while so many people find them nerdy, are a fantastic way to get to know your fellow singles) that isn’t guitar hero (try Apples-to-Apples or Loaded Questions (but careful with the questions!)). When your group sends a missionary off, plan a welcome home (and make it a “pot luck” to spread the food costs). Heck, plan a dancing night even (our favorite, but that gets really dicey sometimes).
Those are some practical ways just to get to know people. In our group, though, there are still challenges. For the men, accountability was encouraged, focusing on the concept “get yourself together to give yourselves away”*. The great thing was the (sometimes brutal) honesty. And when you tell a guy that he should be serious about his interactions with women, there are some (these days, it’s getting to be many) that then run. They don’t want accountability or they don’t want to have to hold to purity. It’s sad, but true. The challenge (with boys) that I’ve seen with a lot of singles groups is the “brother you’re like a six”. Guys most often need to open their eyes and see great women sitting right in front of them. Of course, it takes courage, and, again, sadly too many want to sit back and do nothing and hope that God forces someone in their lives.
For the women, it seemed like marriage becoming an idol was the biggest issue. But a significant challenge was also seeking a perfect husband. Just remember that we should be looking for someone God can perfect, not one who is perfect.
Singles and that ministry are near and dear to my heart. But sometimes we fall over ourselves to get in our own way.
* - which, btw, isn’t a marriage only mentality. Whether we are called to a life of singleness or marriage, our lives should be no different (prayer, study, evangelism, etc.). This is at the core of my issue with the e-mailer’s statement. A study leader (or pastor) shouldn’t contribute to making marriage an idol, but should be preparing singles for a life serving God. Which may or may not mean marrying.
10. Tami said the following at 10:33 AM on Oct 2:
I think some church leadership, in all honesty, doesn't recognize that they *can* help.
Having a little experience in this now, I think the key is to pray specifically about how your church can do better in this... and to be a gentle, humble, and squeaky wheel with your leadership. :) Be clear that you're not looking for a "singles ministry," but for leadership on what makes a good marriage.
And don't be afraid to show up to marriage talks and conferences, even if you go by yourself (or with friends). [If you're worried if a topic is unhelpful or will make you stumble, then skip that session.] That, in and of itself, makes a statement that you care about marriage -- that (a) you want a good one yourself, and (b) that you want to support good marriages in the church body.
11. mary kate said the following at 10:42 AM on Oct 2:
rachel, you raise a good point.
in all of this singleness/marriage mandate stuff, i kind of feel like we're all missing the bigger point. it's not the church's job, or my pastor's job, or my friends' job to get me married. it's their job and mine to help us all become more like christ; to walk more in line with god's will; to love and serve others as christ did.
sometimes i think we all focus on these secondary things and scream and yell about how important they are, when really if we'd focus on god and give our WHOLE selves to him, the secondary things would probably take care of themselves.
12. NeedACatchyName said the following at 10:44 AM on Oct 2:
"I can only talk about marriage a few times a year, otherwise, people get turned off."
I don't mean for this to sound harsh, but why would a pastor need to talk about marriage more than a few times a year? I would be turned off too if my pastor was preaching about marriage/family stuff more often than that. I'm all for encouraging folks to marry and supporting family values, but too many churches think they have to preach on "practical" issues like marriage, family, etc. way too often. Those things are important, but there are so many other things that are also important, such as Jesus' atoning sacrifice (first and foremost), living lives of faith, holiness, giving, loving our neighbor, and scores of other topics that also deserve attention.
As far as ways to help young singles marry, how about more inter-church mixers? I would love to meet single folks at other churches, but unfortunately most churches tend to have their activities at the same time as my church has activities (as we all know that the "One True Time" for evangelical church activities is Wednesday night, at least in the south). As an added bonus, this encourages cooperation between local churches in your area, which is something severely lacking in many places (though that's another topic for another time).
13. Darren said the following at 10:56 AM on Oct 2:
I've mostly had to go it alone. They probably think it's too tough to find someone who's Reformed enough for me, so they tell me to just wait. I've started looking outside my area, since Reformed theology is still confined to a small but growing community where I live.
14. Cassandra said the following at 11:25 AM on Oct 2:
I come from a large metropolitan church where there is a very active singles group and a singles pastor. It's called "young adult" not "singles" however. The emphasis in this group is not on getting married - far from it. Dating happens sometimes, but there are an astonishingly small number of marriages coming out of this group. It seems like there is a lot of overcompensation for the perceived threat of the "meet market". We had a very short series on dating this year and the message was the typical "don't stress about it, singleness is more holy anyway, God will provide." I would love my pastor to say "look, you're called to celibacy or you're called to marriage. Figure it out and get to it." I would be turned off by a church that put relationships with each other over relationship with God, but I feel that my group has gone so far in the other direction that dating is almost discouraged, because men are afraid of making the women feel uncomfortable, ie the "meet market", while meanwhile all my eligible girlfriends are complaining that they hardly ever get asked out, or if they do, they're being carelessly, half-heartedly pursued by men with no real intentions towards marriage. I'm actually considering relocating to another city to go to another church that encourages maturity and marriage from the pulpit on a regular basis. I feel that the preaching sets the tone for the expectations within the group.
15. a sassy sister said the following at 11:40 AM on Oct 2:
rachael:
thank you for that balanced, thoughtful response.
16. Adam said the following at 12:02 PM on Oct 2:
Rachael,
I have actually thought the same thing. Nowhere in scripture is the institution of the church ever given this job. While I certainly think that individuals within the church can do this job, I do not believe that the institution itself should be doing this.
Not only that, but I had to take exception to many of the things found in this article. It seemed like there was this false delemma that kept cropping up that you either make the main focus of the church marriage, or you are somehow discouraging marriage.
Here is what I mean:
Candice said:
If singles attend church less and report feeling left out by an emphasis on marriage and family, then it shouldn't be a surprise that one way churches would try to be more single friendly is to scale back on being family friendly.
Why can't the church not scale back on marriage and family, and scale up its messages on singleness?
First of all, God's word is for everyone, single or married. Hence, when the emphasis is upon marriage, a pastor is not doing his job to feed all of the sheep of his flock with the word of God. Yes, there are times in which marriage may be something that needs to be addressed within a sermon, but, as a whole, the Pastor should bring out applications in the text that relate to every one of his sheep, and not just to the sheep who are married.
I also agree that we should support marriage, and people who would like to get married. However, we should also support people who do not want to get married, or say they want to get married later on in life. Again, there is no logical or Biblical reason why both of these things cannot be done.
This quotation from Robert Wuthnow was also disturbing:
Suppose a man or woman decides, for whatever reason, to be actively involved in a church. Chances are, that man or woman will be in a context where programs are geared toward families, where other young adults are married, and where there may even be sermons and classes about marriage. Any of these influences might encourage a person to think more seriously about getting married.
Now, I don't think Candice meant it to be taken this way, but I can imagine that an procedure such as this would be found by many singles to be quite offensive [not to mention unbiblical!]. Let us say that we have a congregation where the majority of members are white, but there are a few members who are black. What would happen if this were said in that context:
Suppose a black man or woman decides, for whatever reason, to be actively involved in a church. Chances are, that man or woman will be in a context where programs are geared toward issues relating to white people, where other young adults are white, and where there may even be sermons and classes about the issues of white Americans. Any of these influences might encourage a person to think more seriously about getting the same procedure Michael Jackson did so that he will change his skin color.
Now, obviously, such a statement will automatically be taken as racist, and rightfully so. This is why I believe that there are many people out there who take these kinds of statements to be anti-single.
I think we need to get back to the idea that both single and married individuals are created in the image of God, and are precious to God. Hence, while we do need to honor marrige, we also need to have an honor for those who are living their life as singles in a God honoring fashion. In other words, if they come to us for help to get married, we will gladly help them. Likewise, for those who choose to serve God as a single person, we will give them the Biblical tools necessary to do that. But to say that we are going to create an atmosphere where we are going to manipulate people into getting married is simply wrong. There is no Biblical support whatsoever for this. Hence, we must allow them to make their own decision as to how they would like to serve God. If they would like to serve God in the context of marriage with a lifelong partner, then we should give them the help to do that. However, if the person would like to serve God as a single person for part or all of his life, we should likewise give him the help he needs to do that.
Hence, there is no delemma here. We solve the problem of singles not attending church by having balance in our messages, and showing how the Biblical text applies to both married people and single people, since both are created in the very image of God.
God Bless,
Adam
17. Damian said the following at 12:28 PM on Oct 2:
Its a matter or striking the right balance.
Who wants to go to a church where all the students are only interested in dating? Have you ever been to a church like that. Its not fun. It feels like high school all over again.
On the other hand, my current church discourages all dating and interaction between guys and girls. In my mind this is NOT the right balance. Instead the emphasis is placed on prayer. All I can say, is that its a miracle that anybody gets married. It's a miracle that I got married. People pretty much rely on getting match-made. This is a great approach. . .for the 19th century.
Part of the problem is that some churches (including my own) have really misinterpreted scripture. There is a viewport that if you're too interested in marriage that this reflects poorly on your spirituality. This is not the point that Apostle Paul was trying to make in 1 Corinthians 7. This kind of misinterpretation of scripture only leads to guilt and unnecessary anxiety. Amongst others in the church, it leads to a false spirituality, as if being single in itself, makes you super-Christian.
Obviously the purpose of church is not just so people can get married. If pastors see their church become a "meat-market," they should take action. However, more importantly, churches need to teach spiritual maturity to their young adults, so that they have a right and balanced attitude towards marriage and the opposite sex. Avoiding the issue of marriage altogether and pretending that its not really that important or that its somehow unspiritual is not the solution.
18. Jaime said the following at 12:35 PM on Oct 2:
My husband read somewhere, back while we were still in college, that the easiest way to find a spouse is to run the race for Christ and look at who's running near you.
As a woman, I knew that I wasn't going to marry a man who wasn't dedicated to serving somewhere within the local body. I would question whether the guys who aren't serious in a dating relationship are serving. I should think the same would be true for a man looking for a woman. Any thoughts?
19. Holly said the following at 1:27 PM on Oct 2:
I agree that coming closer to God should be the main purpose of any group in a church. And sometimes I felt as if my Singles' Sunday School class was a bar minus the alcohol because I would have 30-40 year old men hitting on me at church! I truly just wanted to come be fed and hear the Word of God, and I attended the Sunday School that was my "status", i.e. single.
Luckily, God brought along my future husband shortly after and I stopped attending that Sunday School even when we were engaged; I just didn't feel it was lifting up God but rather a social scene.
I do agree with the "arrange it and sit back" mentality because some people do want to just socialize and find friendships, too, not be joined with someone.
The Priority is God, and show the benefits of getting married.
20. Angie said the following at 2:02 PM on Oct 2:
I would say my (rather large, biblically sound, metro DC) church is overwhelmingly marriage friendly. What do they do to help singles marry well? There are a lot of opportunities to “mix” through small groups, events, and service opportunities, there is a singles ministry, and there are a lot of older couples actively involved in “cupid-like” activities. I think the biggest contributing factor is the mindset in the community of emphasizing marriage for singles; it is expected and goal-driven.
How can churches encourage marriage in a way that does not alienate single men?
I found this question to be interesting because it does not consider alienating single women. My small group leader once jokingly informed a female friend and me that the goal of the group was to get everyone married off. She only laughed after we did. “How silly,” said my friend later. “I thought small group would be for accountability or learning to be like Christ or something.” I’ve experienced various other similar incidents.
I do want to marry and have children someday. But I have a lot to offer right now, just as I am. And I like who I am despite the lack of a ring and stretch marks. Maybe I am sinfully rebelling against God’s word and a brain washed worldly feminist, but I feel like no one is completely right on this issue. If there is a "completely right."
I could not relate with the original article (Mind the Single-Minded Church) much; there seems to be something going on a completely opposite scale at my church. The world says you’re nothing if you’re a wife and mother; people in my church community seem to have overcompensated and subscribe to the idea that if you’re a female and not working towards being a wife and mother to get out of the workforce, then you are nothing. I am over generalizing it, but that is the main school of thought I have garnered from my time here, and one that indeed alienates some of my single friends and I. Are we allowed to be single, working, and not desiring marriage and babies right this very instant? Is that a sin? It is viewed as so.
I appreciate my church’s singles ministry and the fellowship I have through it. I am constantly edified by the messages and am joyful in the worship. But if I have to explain to another blank eyed, confused person why I am not engaged to my boyfriend yet, or why I want to excel in the job I love, or indeed would rather adopt children than have my “own”, I may cry. I would say I’m a single woman being alienated. Quite unintentionally. I agree with Mary Kate in post 11-- "i kind of feel like we're all missing the bigger point."
21. Colin said the following at 2:39 PM on Oct 2:
Um, when exactly did the Church go from being God's instrument to spread the Good News to the Christian equivalent of a singles bar? "Helping Christian families form is still a fundamental role and responsibility of the body of Christ"? Really? I must have missed the point in Acts where Peter gave directions on what to serve at the "inter-church singles mixer." Not only do I think this idea way over-promotes marriage (maybe another look at 1 Cor. 7:8 and 38 would be helpful?), but it also constitutes a distraction from our churches' commanded focus: Christ and his Gospel. Where will it end: church-run mutual funds to help Christians invest easily? Church fire stations which will protect members' houses? Will we turn to the church to help us pay for these houses? Sorry, Candice, you haven't convinced me.
22. Nathan said the following at 2:42 PM on Oct 2:
I’ve only read half the comments and thought that I needed to weigh in before I threw up. In my mind, forcing such an urgency to marry is undermining singles and not supporting them whatsoever. All people need encouragement and guidance. Married people and single people need different kinds of encouragement and guidance when it comes to relationships. Married people need encouragement and guidance regarding growing together, but the needs of singles are more varied than that. People are single for various reasons. Some never-married people should never get married. Some once-married people should not get married again. Some singles should stay single for a period. Some singles should get married almost immediately.
Throwing all the singles into the same boat and putting some kind of pressure on them towards marriage is ridiculous. Let people be content rather than fueling the fire.
This is what I see the Bible pushing:
*** If one is married, stay faithful to your spouse.
*** If one is single and has a problem maintaining their purity or coming close to losing it, seek marriage.
*** If one is single and doesn’t have those problems, then you may CHOOSE to marry or not, but singleness is the better choice.
***Everyone be content.
The manner in which a man seeks marriage is going to be different than a woman. I can go on about how that means more than women standing to the side waiting for a man to sign her dance card, and more than a man finding a cute/hot date, but I'll end with this:
What a single should do and be during the search -or- instead of the search (whichever the case) is what singles need guidance and encouragement about.
23. Tamara said the following at 2:42 PM on Oct 2:
#18 Jaime
I too have often heard people express the idea of running hard after God and then looking to see who is running with you. This is definitely something that is important.
My church has a young adults group and a pastor and staff person for it. The group is largely comprised of singles . . . but there are also young married couples in the group. While we don't exist for matching people up so they can get married, the leadership does acknowledge that this will happen in a group like this. We have message series regularly (usually about once every year or so) about relationships, because the leadership takes the view that since relationships that lead to marriage will happen we need to be prepared and we need to provide the teaching and guidance that many young adults today are missing in their lives.
While not being promoted as a place to find someone to marry, it's not something is discouraged either. Because, really, if you're meeting people who are taking the time in life to attend a young adults group at a church, chances are better (although not guaranteed) that they will also be seeking to follow God with their lives. Probably, the thing I like most baout thr group is that when someone does get engaged/married, it's something that the whole group celebrates and supports.
24. Ruth said the following at 3:23 PM on Oct 2:
Mindlab # 5:
"provide an event for young people to meet (and preferable work) together. . . and then stand back and keep your mouth (mostly) shut. Telling me, "oh, you and Suzie Q would be great together" is worse than useless if there's no way for me to meet her. If you just keep your opinions to yourself, host a dinner party, and introduce us there, that would be great. Maybe I'm a prude, but it seems like friendship (or at least acquaintance) should precede one-on-one dating"
Thank you for saying that. You are not a prude. We need more opportunities to serve together.
25. KariE said the following at 3:24 PM on Oct 2:
In my church we have life-stage groups and I don't like it because us college girls are seperated from all the "young professionals"(i.e. men over the age of 22ish who have graduated and have stable jobs/homes/ the ability to support a wife)
I don't think it works so well for them either though--only in the last year have we FINALLY seen several of the older men and women (late twenties to mid-thirties)marry each other. They seem to be at a stand-still too.
Last year I tried to talk to a younger mother in the church to ask about finances and preparing to have a family someday, and she INSTANTLY attacked me with "The Speech"--- Contentment,Contentment, Contentment! Just rest in God's will! You might not be married for years or EVER! etc.
And I felt so embarassed, like I had just admitted some horrible, dirty secret. I am resolved to take God's will for my life with joy, and rest in His plans- WHATEVER marital status that includes, but I was just asking for wisdom and my heart was not in a bad place. FOR GOODNESS SAKES!!
I feel like I need some sort of disclaimer I can hand to people:
"Really want husband, would love to settle down and build a good marriage; Welcome advice from people who are intentional about being joyful in their marriages;no disheartening lectures please, marriage is NOT a heart-idol in my life, just an aspiration of mine. Please don't crush hopes and dreams. Thanks."
26. Susan said the following at 3:44 PM on Oct 2:
My church is large, reformed, and charismatic with plenty of families and single adults. Our pastoral team does an excellent job teaching from Scripture and encouraging the body, both married and single, young and old, to share the Gospel, engage in fellowship, and reach out to the community.
Many a Sunday an engagement announcement is made. However, as a female that is a minority, I often wonder whether anyone in my fairly homogeneous church would consider me a potential option. I know some wonderful Christian ladies that are African American, Japanese, Indian, Nigerian, or of mixed heritage and none of them have even been approached, some in years, others, ever. Thankfully, an issue like skin color is not an obstacle for God.
27. Candice Watters said the following at 4:33 PM on Oct 2:
Colin,
Spend some time in Titus 2. It's amazing to me how much of an emphasis Paul puts on the older women teaching the younger women how to be godly wives and mothers -- all within the context of church relationships. It probably wasn't amazing to them because they recognized what a central part those roles played. The marginalization of marriage and parenting, as if they compete with rather than undergird the central work of the gospel, is an unfortunate consequence of current cultural trends.
28. Colin said the following at 4:57 PM on Oct 2:
Damian (#17),
What is your interpretation of 1 Cor. 7? I'm an arrogant guy and I tend to only see my interpretation as correct. So, what do you think Paul means when he says "To the unmarried and the widows I say that it is good for them to remain single as I am"? Or how about vv. 32-35, where Paul says unmarried people have undivided devotion to the Lord and married people don't? Please, I want to hear your thoughts.
29. BDB said the following at 5:11 PM on Oct 2:
Colin (#21) wrote:
>>Where will it end: church-run mutual funds to help Christians invest easily?<<
Um...Lutherans have them. The company is called Thrivent. Good ethics, and they're doing just find in this economic mess, undoubtedly because they continue to follow Biblical principles in their investing decisions.
Interestingly enough, they also have "chapter" events where people get together and do service projects. I'm sure it's a good way for Lutherans to meet...
30. Leah said the following at 6:38 PM on Oct 2:
My church is currently doing a series on dating in our evening services. It's looking at several aspects, and these are some of the main points we've covered so far:
- The requirements in a spouse (opposite sex, Christian, etc)
- Physical limitations (conceding that different people may have different standards, and that there's an acceptable difference in the physical intimacy between dating, engagement, and marriage)
- That the bible never gives guidelines on dating because it wasn't done back then, but it does provide principles of marriage, so we need to have those in mind when heading towards marriage
- The man should be the leader, the initiator, and the woman should be submissive BUT a dating relationship is not equal to marriage, so a woman should not be submitting as much to a boyfriend as to a husband
- Arranged marriages, while not being the norm, can actually work out, so it is not a bad thing (and often quite good!) to ask family/friends for help in the seeking a spouse department.
Etc. It's been quite good. My church is not usually overt about encouraging people towards marriage, generally preferring to just set up situations where guys and girls are likely to mingle and letting it happen.
KariE- I felt so awful for you when I read about what happened to you. If a younger woman approached me for advice on that type of thing, I'd feel flattered that she'd ask and would be willing to give any advice I might think is helpful.
Our church separates people into age groups up until 22, and then it's all mixed. So we have our primary school youth group, our high school youth group, our uni-aged/young adults group (up til age 22), and then the bible studies are all mixed. Young, old, married, single, with kids, without. I think that's good, though I wish the young adults group age limit was a bit higher, like it used to be- maybe 24. Mingle the uni students with those just entered the workforce.
Colin- Church has never been God's instrument to spread the good news. THE church is his instrument.
Church = the place we come each Sunday to learn about God, worship him, and build each other up.
THE church = the people who make up God's family, who have been instructed to spread the good news to the end of the earth and make disciples of all nations.
We are talking here about CHURCH. I don't see any problem with part of our role in building each other up to be helping one another to follow our God-given desire for marriage. Where else are people going to learn how to build a godly marriage?
The sunday service might not be the appropriate place to flirt with people. But we build friendships and relationships through serving with one another, don't we? And weekly bible studies, or quite simply social events, can be great places to meet godly people of the opposite sex.
Encouraging relationships is not equal to the other examples you gave- mutual funds or fire stations. They would require a significant investment of money, something the church should be using to further God's kingdom. Creating an environment conducive to singles finding spouses does not necessarily require any misdirection of money.
Read what I've just said about how my church encourages singles towards marriage. It's not putting on speed dating nights, it's not creating "singles only" socials. It is teaching people a godly way of finding a spouse, and what a godly relationship and marriage should look like. It is allowing singles to mix with people of the opposite sex- and older married couples- to give them opportunity to form relationships.
Definitely not the sort of project a Christian mutual fund or fire station would be. How ridiculous.
Adam said Yes, there are times in which marriage may be something that needs to be addressed within a sermon, but, as a whole, the Pastor should bring out applications in the text that relate to every one of his sheep, and not just to the sheep who are married.
Mmm, don't totally agree with you there Adam. You're right that a pastor should not always harp on about topics that apply to only one part of his flock. However, you can't get a message for every demographic in a church from every passage. Some passages, quite simply, are only applicable for married people. Does that mean a pastor should never preach on that passage? Some passages, quite simply, are only applicable for singles. Does that mean a pastor should leave those passages alone?
No. It means that the single people can take notes during the marriage sermon so they can apply it in their own marriage one day. It means married people can pay attention to the singles sermon so they can be useful to their single friends.
Like I said before, our current series is on dating. A large amount of our church are already married. I'm married. Does that mean there's no point in me going to church for those services? Of course not! I'm still learning more about marriage as well, not to mention it gives me advice on how I can be helpful to my single or dating friends.
A pastor should not be responsible for having to find a message for every person in his church in a single passage. He should be responsible for faithfully extracting the message and application that passage teaches. It is then up to us and God to find our personal conviction and application.
31. BDB said the following at 7:45 PM on Oct 2:
KariE (#24) wrote:
>>Last year I tried to talk to a younger mother in the church to ask about finances and preparing to have a family someday, and she INSTANTLY attacked me with "The Speech"--- <<
That's really sad.
I think the guys in our men's ministry (the Wild at Heart crowd especially) are the most consistent at pushing young men to be intentional about marriage.
Our church now has a somewhat large "young adults" ministry. Somewhere North of 100 regular attendees.
But something was just brought to my attention. There are a couple of guys in their early 20's who've separated from their wives in the last six months. One has a serious drinking problem - the root cause of his separation. Now these guys are interested in coming to the young adults group to meet new girls. This strikes me as a situation where we need to impose some accountability. The phrase "wolves among sheep" comes to mind.
32. BDB said the following at 7:53 PM on Oct 2:
But I do agree with Rachael (#8) that the role of the church is spiritual formation. And as I wrote here the fact that my grandmother left a dating-oriented church to find a spiritually-oriented church was instrumental in meeting my grandfather. That certainly fits into the "run hard after God and then look who's running beside you."
33. Matthew said the following at 8:54 PM on Oct 2:
KariE (#24),
I've noticed that kind of reaction before, though not as strong as you received. Maybe it's better that you didn't get any advice from this woman. I don't want to slander anyone, but when a married person is really negative about marriage or tries to strongly dissuade you from thinking about it, it makes me wonder whether they don't have a bad marriage themselves. Might be the kind of person you'd rather analyze to determine what NOT to do in a marriage. Then again, she could have a good marriage and just be repeating the line she's always heard. I know a few people who are so happy about marriage that they wish everyone else could be married (not many, sadly). They're the kind of couples I would look to for advice and role models.
That said, though, I do learn one thing from my marriage-negative married friends. Marriage can be really tough, and many married people end up apparently wishing they'd never married...so be careful who you marry!
A few words of wisdom (?) from a person who has exactly that.
34. AP said the following at 9:39 PM on Oct 2:
HOW CAN I FIND/IDENTIFY A CHURCH THAT IS MARRIAGE MINDED?????
This has been a gnawing question for me as it has been nearly 4 months since I left a church because it was a suburban version of the one described in comment #14. Mainly, the single male leader (30-ish) was anti-marriage/anti-children and spread it to all of the younger single men that he mentored. The church was so afraid of the "meat-market" that in the 6 months I attended a group of about 40 singles, all within about 10 years of age, NOT A SINGLE GIRL WAS ASKED OUT ON A DATE!!! When I asked one of the single female leaders, she let me know that she wasn't "pursuing" marriage because after all it was just supposed to magically "happen." Needless to say, I left that church.
I have now been looking for a church that is marriage-friendly and encourages the guys in the area of marriage, but really don't know how to find what I am looking for. How do I get at this information without having to attend for months?
ANY IDEAS?????
35. Anonymous female said the following at 9:41 PM on Oct 2:
#20 Angie,
Would you mind sharing the name of your church? I live in the DC area and would like to ask you some questions about it. Could you please email me at novagirlva@yahoo.com? Thanks.
36. Heather said the following at 7:01 AM on Oct 3:
KariE,
Out of all the comments on this post, I could probably relate to yours the most.
I too have talked to married women (I am the only single in my age group at my church) about my desire/being prepared for marriage and have gotten "the speech" quite often.
When I have been encouraged in my dream, it has been a blessing.
Maybe I need to copy your disclaimer... :)
God Bless !!
37. obewan said the following at 8:24 AM on Oct 3:
#24. KariE had the following to say on Oct 2 at 3:24 PM:
">>In my church we have life-stage groups and I don't like it because us college girls are seperated from all the "young professionals"(i.e. men over the age of 22ish who have graduated and have stable jobs/homes/ the ability to support a wife)<<"
------------------------------------
It is interesting to hear your perspective. We used to fight that problem at a church I used to attend. The elder in charge of "singles" kept getting complaints from parents of young 20 year olds that were being asked out by "older" (over 25) guys. He tried to make the "young" adults group for age 18-25 only, and tried to throw anyone over 25 out of the group. It did not fly because everyone inlcuding the younger singles "rebelled", so the elder in charge was forced to turn a deaf ear to the complaints. There was even the case of an "older" woman marrying a younger guy (28 vs. 22.) LOL!
38. Rachael said the following at 10:02 AM on Oct 3:
To the single women (24, 28) who wrote in who when talking about marriage have felt discouraged from their conversations with others...
Perhaps you already have this perspective, and it may not be helpful, but maybe to try to remember your current feelings in the future...maybe journal them or something, so that when/if you marry, you could consider them in your future conversations with single women. And remember the value of being alieniated or having painful experiences. I think having difficult experiences where we feel like we are the 'outsider' can build empathy for others.
It may have been just yesterday when a co-worker of mine (non-Christian, most likely) was talking about how she thinks everyone should have an experience when they are the outsider, and when they are not on the outside, or something like that...
I don't know if this will encourage you or come across as dismissive of your concerns, but I think there is value in being the 'outsider' at times...and in feeling pain. I wonder if there's something about being on the periphery and experiencing hardship that more often makes you notice others on the outside...
I should remember this too when I experience pain and 'differentness' in various ways throughout life.
39. Tami said the following at 10:06 AM on Oct 3:
AP #26 -- To identify a church that is "pro-marriage," watch the pastor and how he loves and treats his wife. It takes some time (and observation, and somewhat the ability to get to know the pastor "up close"), but it's one way to go about it.
Also look for a church that's not "lopsided" -- i.e., it doesn't have a gigantic vacuum of any one "group" of people (be they married or unmarried, younger or older... etc.)
And, for searching for a solid church *in general,* I agree with BDB and others who have mentioned spiritual formation/discipleship as a good identifier and foundation of a healthy church. This setup promotes an environment where *everyone* is encouraged to grow in the Lord and take their faith seriously. You'll probably get further in such a church than in one where *marriage itself* is the primary emphasis -- encouraging discipleship first properly puts the horse in front of the cart (*any* cart, not just the "marriage cart"), so to speak.
Another "buzz word" (mostly for women) is how often Titus 2 gets brought up.
40. Chelsea Moore said the following at 10:41 AM on Oct 3:
Dear AP,
I understand how you feel. Although I'm not determined to get married, I would welcome greater exposure to other loving, Christian singles where the possibility of marriage could be contemplated and pursued, if it was meant to be.
The demographics (as well as the mentality) of my current church do not lend itself to this. So I'm setting my sights elsewhere. Recently, I wrote to the religion editor of a regional newspaper, hoping to get some direction on where I might find an appropriate church.
I do agree, however, that a church's sole or primary purpose is not to manufacture marriages among its members. But truth be told, a church is one of the best ways to find a spouse.
Chelsea
41. Ronnica said the following at 10:54 AM on Oct 3:
I know of at least one couple in my church that was originally set up by a staff member. Nothing fancy/embarrassing, just a "hey, have you noticed ________?" in the guy's ear. Our pastor is also really good about encouraging the godly guys to open their eyes to the single women around them.
42. Lora said the following at 11:15 AM on Oct 3:
Heather (#28)and KariE,
Thanks for posting what you did. It's encouraging to know I'm not alone.
Blessings!
43. Christine said the following at 11:57 AM on Oct 3:
Darren - what you wrote sounds exactly like my situation. I now live in a rural area where the only other people I know who hold to Reformed theology are already married. Though there are some things that I can agree to disagree on, I'm not willing to marry someone who has a vastly different view on the doctrine of grace, etc. It's too foundational to my view of life.
I struggle with the idea that I can do something else to be married that I haven't already tried. At one point in time, I did live in a city where I attended church with other singles, but nothing worked out. I've tried online matchmaking, but that hasn't worked for me either. Now, I live in a small town in the middle of cornfields and have met a grand total of two single men in ten months, neither of whom is on the same page as me theologically.
I'm fine with my church being focused on families and marriage, but some times, I just want to feel involved with the rest of the world. I want to go to a women's Bible study where no one cares if I'm married or single and I want to feel like I belong and am a part of the body now - not that I WILL belong once I'm married because I don't have a place in the church as a single woman.
44. Lisa said the following at 2:15 PM on Oct 3:
KariE,
I am a married woman with a young child. I'm sorry you were attacked in that way by another married woman. If you had come to me, I would have told you that the most important thing, in my opinion, is to stay out of debt. Both my parents and my husband's parents grew up during the Great Depression. So, my husband and I pretty much agree with each other as far as money issues go. If we can't afford it, we don't buy it. The problems arise when one partner is very careful with money, and the other partner loves to spend money and has no problems with accumulating debt. That's the situation you want to avoid.
45. brx said the following at 11:45 PM on Oct 3:
Joshua Harris gave a great message to the whole church back in November 2005 titled "Courtship-schmourtship". I think that was a very healthy step for a healthy marriage-minded church. The .mp3 is available from the www.CovLife.org archives.
Also, check out the very solid teaching of the Relationships series from their singles ministry ~2003, I think. The pastorship also structures things in their singles ministry to avoid some common dysfunctions in singles ministry.
Grace, peace & adventure!
46. Adam said the following at 8:23 AM on Oct 4:
Leah,
My point was not to argue that, in every single passage, there is going to be something that applies to everyone. I was trying to argue against an imbalance that puts a focus on marriage to the point where people who would like to remain single their whole lives or would like to marry later in life are somehow never given spiritual food, because there is such an emphasis on marriage. Yes, marriage is important, but so is singleness. Both single and married people are redeemed by the blood of Christ, and both are walking this Christian life seeking to deny ourselves, take up our cross, and follow Christ. Hence, we both need spiritual food for the battle, and, when a church becomes focused upon marriage rather than preaching the whole council of God, we are left with single people who end up not getting the spiritual food from the word of God that they need.
I think it might have been better if I said that, if possible, the pastor should bring out the applications to every kind of person in the Christian community. That way, both married people and single people are getting the word of God applied to their lives.
I like Jaime #18 said. You run the race after Christ, and if you decide you want to get married, you look at who is running the race along side of you. Thus, we, again, run after Christ, and when we do that, we find that we honor marriage, and we honor one another in our pursuit of marriage.
Candice,
Colin,
Spend some time in Titus 2. It's amazing to me how much of an emphasis Paul puts on the older women teaching the younger women how to be godly wives and mothers -- all within the context of church relationships. It probably wasn't amazing to them because they recognized what a central part those roles played. The marginalization of marriage and parenting, as if they compete with rather than undergird the central work of the gospel, is an unfortunate consequence of current cultural trends.
Actually, the assumption seems to be that these women are already married. The text speaks of these women as having "their husband," and "their children." This text, therefore, is probably addressing young married women, as opposed to older married women.
Also, I don't think that this is the empasis of the passage at all. In the first verse of this chapter, Paul says:
Titus 2:1 But as for you, speak the things which are fitting for sound doctrine.
The point he is making is that, if we are balanced in what we teach, and how we run the church, if we speak things that are fitting of sound doctrine, then we will have the things that follow, namely, young married women who love their husbands.
In other words, I think this text makes the very same point that Jaime #18 made, and that is that we are to teach and exhort, and marriages will be formed by looking around at those of us who are running this race together. As I said before, yes, there will be situations in church life where a pastor will have to address marriage specifically, and other issues as well. However, he should, to the best of his ability, show how the text of scripture applies to every kind of person in his congregation, married or single.
God Bless,
Adam
47. Chelsea Moore said the following at 4:44 PM on Oct 4:
Dear Rachael,
From the standpoint of someone who has been something of an "outsider" all of my life, I gotta say, it's overrated in terms of how it can benefit me, and thus, benefit others.
I am a middle child, an Adult Child of an Alcoholic, a conservative living in a "red state", a Highly Sensitive Person (you can Google it on the Web), and a Christian during a time when our nation is becoming more secular. These dynamics have dogged me all of my life, and have resulted in marked pain, despite the fact I generally like myself. So friends, marriage, career success, etc. have been more elusive for me than the average person. There have been more voids to fill than the Hoover Dam itself can manage (in jest, of course).
Although yes, it has made me more empathic to others in general, the recipients of the empathy don't seem to care much about the olive leaf being extended to them, and people in general seem intimidated or indifferent to me.
I remember one poster here who indirectly talked of their "differentness", and was happy when God negated that by sending them their spouse. I continue to pray that God will counteract the forces that have worked against me for this long.
Sorry for the lengthy post. In general, however, I agree that we should all experience the pain of being an outsider at some point in our lives.
Chelsea
P.S. I would welcome any feedback towards healing or moving forward in my life.
48. Miranda said the following at 10:08 PM on Oct 4:
This is only slightly related, but I thought you folks might be interested in a recent news release about the top ten "most single" cities. It even breaks down the gender gaps.
(My apologies for the super long link).
http://realestate.yahoo.com/promo/going-solo-in-the-usa.html;_ylc=X3oDMTFpaTViZTJvBF9TAzI3MTYxNDkEX3MDOTc2MjA0NjUEc2VjA2ZwLXRvZGF5BHNsawNnb2luZy1zb2xv
49. Kate said the following at 8:04 AM on Oct 5:
The way I envision it, a church body or congregation that is committed to helping people develop solid, Godly marriages could accomplish this by something more like mentoring through personal relationships than through what almost everyone has described in these comments.
Don't get me wrong, didactic and structured education/discussion and specific individual counsel about what Scripture has to say is certainly an important part of this process... but I do not believe this is the whole picture.
I don't like when churches all but completely separate members by age and marital status in groups, officially or not officially. It doesn't allow much opportunity for the Scriptural guidelines about older church members supporting and guiding the younger ones. Even though separating groups seems like it caters better to the specific needs and interests of people, this way of doing things cheats younger people from having the blessing to acquire a lot of wisdom and the older people from having the blessing of helping others in this way. It also does not allow much for people in different life stages to help and serve one another in convenient ways.
How are single people who want to marry really going to take scripture's lessons from the approaches described above and imagine what a real-life engagement and marriage would be like on a day-to-day basis? How can they do this without personally getting to know and spending time with some Christian people who have done or are doing those things? Especially if they do come from a background in which they have been close to friends or family who have pursued relationships according to God's instructions?
Surely the leadership in the church has the responsibility of specific counsel and doing sermons and Bible studies on marriage, both for singles who want to marry and married people who can always be working on their marriages (but this should not be their only goal or responsibility!).
However, they can also serve their congregations by inviting and encouraging members to get to know their own families. I think I've learned as much, if not more, about what a Godly relationship looks like from spending time with people in them and seeing how Scripture's instructions about Godly marriages show up in everyday life.
50. Colin said the following at 8:38 PM on Oct 5:
BDB (#29),
LOL! ;)
Leah (#30),
I half agree with you. Romances can certainly (and most likely will) flourish as single men and women serve and fellowship together. I think, though, that each local body has to see itself as a member of the Body. It can't spend its precious time and energy doing its own thing. So, the universal Church's duties are the local church's as well. Things which are not the universal Church's duties are only potential distractions for local churches.
51. StrugglingGal said the following at 11:46 AM on Oct 6:
I wish my church were more like Mars Hill Seattle in its unashamed approach to EVERYTHING, especially telling singles to get about the business of getting married (unless they are called to lifelong singleness). Mark Driscoll's taking the singleton males under wing (and taking them to task when needed) really inspires me.
Now, would his style fly here in the buckle of the Bible belt? I don't know. But I sure wish more pastors would speak against the wait-for-someone-to-deliver-your-spouse-to-you blather that has too long dominated what the church at large has communicated to Christian singles.
To be honest, this category, mentioned in comment #22, fits me to a T, especially recently:
*** If one is single and has a problem maintaining their purity or coming close to losing it, seek marriage.
"Climbing the walls" was an understatement last month! (Hormones, likely.) I know that we are to be "continent" while single, but at almost 33, I am finding it more and more challenging, not less so. At the same time, life experience and the Word have informed me even more at this age (than at say, 17, when my hormones were RAGING) the importance of maintaining virginity and purity until marriage. (Virginity seems easier to maintain. Purity, however, is more difficult.) So I have the perennial battle of flesh (literally!!) vs. the Spirit in me. And I am sooooo tired of fighting the battle. I long for all those good aspects of marriage: to give them and receive them.
I want to know how to prepare to be a good wife and mother, how to be on the lookout for truly good and godly men, and how to discern a fit marriage candidate for me. I think the next steps for me include developing a mentor–mentee relationship with a married couple. (Just have to choose a couple and ask them.)
Oh, would that my church would aid me in this "quest"!! Would that my church would be intentional about it... Would that my church would not let singles merely meander through their single seasons, thinking that those singles will somehow get what they need spiritually and life-wise from among the myriad of programs and such offered by the church. (Ya know... singles are adults, so surely they will get what they need from all the programming we offer for adults of all ages.) *shrugs shoulders*
I have contemplated looking for a church with deeper preaching (I need it, and supposedly such a preaching style and depth attracts more men) and with a more solid grasp of intentionality in continuing to prepare young people for marriage (not merely preaching the "True Love Waits" message at the teenagers). Should I leave my current church for essentially the purpose of finding a husband?
52. Rachael said the following at 12:15 PM on Oct 6:
Hi Chelsea (47),
Just real quick...
I hope I'm not at all diminishing or discounting your feeling in any way, shape or form. I'm sorry to hear that you often feel plagued by feelings of outsider-ness.
Quick thoughts...remember the Bible says 'no temptation has overtaken you such as is common to man'....
I'm not sending this hasty message as someone who has no problems.
But I wonder if most everyone or everyone, Christians included, has tons of yucky feelings inside...no matter whether it relates to being on the 'outside' or other plaguing thoughts and circumstances.
I'm sorry to write in such haste - I've gotta get going, but I want to encourage you that you are not alone in your negative feelings.
What I and you should do when we feel plagued by our sin, inadequacies, and other yuckiness, is look to the Scripture. We need to turn to Christ.
We are nothing of ourselves. We are/were dead. We need Christ to breathe his life into us. Salvation isn't just a one time thing. I want to discover the power of living in redemption.
There is something about meditating about Scripture and letting it transform the mind, and I need to put it into practice way more often.
I guess I encourage you and I and everyone to cry out to God and meditate on Scripture.
Maybe you could try looking up 'suffering' on Biblegateway and find some Scripture(s) to meditate upon. I recently wrote some verses (related to a sin problem I'm having) on paper and desire to meditate on them when the yucky thoughts hit.
The Word of God is a double-edged sword. I need to cling to it and live by it. In my mind I know it has power. I need to put that mindset to practice and know I'd benefit and know you would too...
Again, sorry for the hastiness, and God bless!!
53. BDB said the following at 1:14 PM on Oct 6:
Chelsea Moore (#47) wrote:
>>P.S. I would welcome any feedback towards healing or moving forward in my life.<<
Find a way to serve the poor. It isn't important if it's poor foster kids, feeding the homeless in the park, or going overseas to a poor country. It is a great way to gain perspective on how challenging life can be. You may be able to identify blessings in your own life that are easy to overlook on a day-to-day basis.
54. IMO said the following at 1:43 PM on Oct 6:
#47
I'm confused by the comment that you made: "These dynamics have dogged me all of my life, and have resulted in marked pain, despite the fact I generally like myself."
As you say, one of these dynamics is being a Christian.
How has being a Christian "dogged" you and created "marked pain." Is this a result of being persecuted for your faith?
What do you need healing from/to? I'm also confused by that comment.
Do you mean from your dynamic background? Or from being an "outsider?"
I have a sense you are not alone. There are plenty of individuals out like you, even with worse background and dynamics than you. Perhaps your "outsider" personality was highly influenced and peaked by your circumstances..
Hey the "Multiple Personalities: Episode 37" comes to mind...
maybe consider taking that personality test if you are interested...
55. Anonymous girl said the following at 3:29 PM on Oct 6:
#51 -- Struggling Gal, do you have a reference or web address for what you said about Mark Driscoll and its "unashamed approach to EVERYTHING, especially telling singles to get about the business of getting married (unless they are called to lifelong singleness). Mark Driscoll's taking the singleton males under wing (and taking them to task when needed) really inspires me."
It certainly sounds like something he would do, and I would love to see a reference for it if you have one. I want to show it to the leadership of my church!
56. Rachael said the following at 8:04 PM on Oct 6:
BDB's advice to "Find a way to serve the poor." and that "It is a great way to gain perspective on how challenging life can be" is nice.
I also think we could substitute "the poor" with "anyone"...
Also it might help to keep busy. I'm not completely activitied-up now, but, I find that when I have too much time it might not be the best for my thought life. I think even when I have a lot going on I still can think too much, but, still, it's just an idea you or someone might like to try...
One thing I look forward to about having kids is that it makes you think about yourself less. But I realize that might not be a very practical option at this point in time for everyone :)
57. StrugglingGal said the following at 9:59 AM on Oct 7:
Anonymous girl (comment 55):
The series that particularly struck my best friend, who recommended it to me, was "1 Corinthians: Christians Gone Wild." I think the church studied that book of the Bible for 33 weeks or so! These four sermons resonated the most with me:
"Good Sex, Bad Sex" (part 16 of the series)
"Single like Jesus" (part 17)
"Divorce and Remarriage" (part 18)
"Spiritual Gifts Part VI" (part 32)
[Note: The series is from 2006, and they don't have it on iTunes. You can download free audio directly from the church's site.]
Their main Web site is www.marshillchurch.org. (They're currently doing a study in Song of Solomon.)
Driscoll is not only hysterical, but he is spot-on theologically (as far as I can tell) and explains things so that you can understand them AND makes application that is practical.
For your own personal growth and edification, I also recommend listening to Alistair Begg, John Piper, Ravi Zacharias, John MacArthur, Charles Swindoll, and David Jeremiah --- a lot of them are broadcasted on Moody Radio. I've also downloaded their stuff from iTunes.
Blessings! =)
58. BDB said the following at 1:49 PM on Oct 7:
Rachael (#56) wrote:
>>I also think we could substitute "the poor" with "anyone"...<<
Well, the reason I suggest the poor specifically is that it helps break that greatest of American sins, materialism. It's easy for North Americans to stay comfortable and hang out with other financially comfortable people.
But the Bible in general and Jesus specifically talk a lot about thepoor. I found 198 references to the poor.
59. Ricky said the following at 5:29 PM on Oct 7:
While my church strongly affirms the marital bond, it does nothing (that I am aware of) to help singles find mates. When I talked to my pastor about my frustration in not yet being able to find a life time partner, he told me that marriage was very complicated and difficult, and not to worry too much about it.
In some churches people are prayed for if they cannot find a mate yet. The church takes thier plight seriously. In other churches, they try to partner people up. I don't know what is most effective, but more churches need to step up and help singles find partners.
60. Wade Bittle said the following at 11:34 PM on Oct 7:
Out of my experience and the churches I've been to (which is many, and is why I'm sick of them) do not explicitly have programs to help teens pass from adolescence to marriage successfully. They may do studies from the Bible, but it ends there.
All of my friends including my brother have married a girl after they had taken the initiative to move to another place, other than there hometown.
I think most churches would fumble the idea of hooking teens into marriage. There are the isolated situations where somebody at church roleplays "matchmaker".
For the church to set a plan out for teenagers to get married, and avoid making the process feel impersonal, clunky, confusing, or awkward, they would have to put together a program that is smart, logically on the same level as teens today. And most churches aren't good at doing that, much less connecting with youth altogether.
61. obewan said the following at 8:33 AM on Oct 9:
">>For the church to set a plan out for teenagers to get married, and avoid making the process feel impersonal, clunky, confusing, or awkward, they would have to put together a program that is smart, logically on the same level as teens today.<<"
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I think the reason we don't see it is because in large parts teens are discouraged from getting married. Maybe there could be an emphasis on healthy dating, and that is all I have seen in the past.
Most people wait until after college or at least until they have established a career before they think about getting married. It usually happens in the early 20's. At a college with 1200 people, I only knew two guys who married their teenage sweethearts. They planned it when they were 18, and they both waited 4 years to get married. I will admit I at times wished I was like them with my life planned ahead like that.
62. Christopher from Albuquerque said the following at 1:38 AM on Dec 4:
Christine (comment #43),
I am *very* late at commenting on this thread, but I want to let you know that you are not alone. I am a single Reformed Christian (credobaptist, not paedo) who lives in a part of the U.S. that seems to be equally Catholic and pagan. There are evangelical churches around, even some very large ones, but they are, by and large, not Reformed. The church of which I am a member leans in the Reformed direction, in its teaching, but much of the congregation doesn't seem to "get it." (or perhaps, like it?)
Most of the women in my church are married, Reformed or not. Some of the more consciously Reformed females are younger (as in 17-19)-- too young for me to even consider, at the age of 35. The church doesn't have a singles ministry and doesn't seem to be doing much to help "us" get married.
I used to be a member of a Reformed Baptist church in D.C. that was so wonderfully Gospel-centric. Even the married couples seemed so focused on Christ and the Gospel, rather than "defining" themselves as "married first, Christian second" that they were actually encouraging for me to spend time with, as a single man. Perhaps equally to the point, they *made* time to spend with me, rather than marginalizing me because I *am* a single man. At the same time, married couples did not chastise singles for wanting to be married. What a church... I wish, in many ways, that I had not moved.
Now though, I am at a different church, in a different state, and things are *different* in many ways, sadly... I have recently concluded that in order for me to be married, God may have to send a Reformed woman from another state to my church, here in Albuquerque, New Mexico! I know that He can do all things... but at 35, I confess that I struggle with patience. Lord, have mercy!
63. Ann said the following at 1:47 AM on Oct 26:
If you young people think it is hard to meet an eligible person of your faith, wait till you are older and widowed, AND LONELY. NOBODY considers introducing you to someone you might want to date. PEOPLE AVOID YOU. I guess the married members must fear you are a threat to their marriage or something. The singles groups are for young adults only if such groups exist at your church at all. I don't know what the answer is. When you have been married 44 years being alone is torture, especially if you can't work and can't afford to get out much.