Asking the Scary Questions
by Suzanne Hadley Gosselin on 10/13/2008 at 4:30 PM
In Ted's post "Slow Descent into Fornication," one commenter, who is in a serious relationship, asked whether she should bring up the issue of pornography with her boyfriend. The answer is a resounding yes. A wise and wonderful married friend of mine compiled a list of the "hard questions" to ask a potential spouse. She created the list based on heartbreaking circumstances she witnessed in her friends' marriages. She emphasizes asking your intended very specific questions. Not just, "Have you viewed pornography?" but "When and for how long?"
This is not meant to say that if your guy doesn't measure up in one of these areas, you must dump him, my friend points out. It is meant to help you honestly consider what life will be like with this person in the long run, and figure out how to prevent future trouble.
These questions would be appropriate to ask someone you are engaged to or courting for the purpose of marriage; many of them apply to both sexes, though I'm phrasing them in the masculine here.
- Is he a virgin? How do you know?
- Does he have a sex addiction? How do you know?
- Has he ever looked at pornography? How do you know? What is he looking at, how often, for how long, and what exactly he was doing to deal with the problem?
- Has he ever used alcohol or drugs?
- If he has had sex before or has taken intravenous drugs, does he have HIV or any other STD? How do you know?
- Does he have the same opinions about birth control that you do? (Do you share the same convictions about appropriate methods?)
This list of questions may come across as a downer, but it shouldn't. Many of the comments on Ted's post made a good point that struggles with sexual sin are prevalent in our culture. I appreciated the stories that demonstrated how open communication between the man and woman uncovered sin and allowed the couple to address it, before marriage—many with successful results.
Don't think of this as a "good enough" checklist; it is a tool to address sin and strategize about purity before you enter a lifelong covenant.
1. Tami said the following at 4:55 PM on Oct 13:
Thanks, Suzanne. I don't think they're a downer; they're just realistic and serious questions.
My only thought on them is, that I would separate out drug use from and alcohol use. One is illegal; one is not. And, abuse of either drugs or alcohol is a different bird than having a glass of wine with dinner... UNLESS, of course, for one of you it's a big no-no and for the other moderate alcohol consumption is culturally acceptable.
But I get your overall point... the open conversation -- and the ensuing discussion and addressing of the "issue" -- is what's paramount.
2. Remorseful said the following at 5:18 PM on Oct 13:
Those are definitely important questions. I've definitely have had a tough time in the past figuring out when to discuss those issues.
This type of conversation is what caused me and my girlfriend to break up.
Being one that has struggled/continues to struggle with porn, I tried to figure when the best time to talk about it with my g/f was. The tough thing is that you'll be doing good for a while and think you are over it. But then it rears its ugly head again.
I finally confessed to her my problem 7 months in. She took a few days to think about it and then we talked. She decided that she couldn't continue in the relationship.
I don't know if that was the right decision. But it was definitely a wake up call for me. It's been 4 months since then and they have been porn free.
You might want to add masturbation to your questions. It is a trickier subject and more nuanced. But probably important to discuss.
3. Jacob said the following at 6:59 PM on Oct 13:
I'm sure someone will ask this eventually, but does your friend recommend this talk happen during engagement or sooner? Due to the sensitive nature of these questions, I can see the wisdom in waiting until engagement, but the caution side of me wonders if it isn't beneficial to bring (perhaps some of) them up sooner.
4. BDB said the following at 7:10 PM on Oct 13:
Hmmm...what about the accountability side? For example, is he willing to drop subscriptions to objectional material, such as HBO or Cinemax (even if they came free with a cable subscription)? What about putting on a parental filter an allowing his fiancee to set the password?
I would put those in the same category as, for example, wanting to see someone's credit report before marriage. When people adamantly refuse accountability that is a red flag, waving vigorously...
5. Charles H. said the following at 7:56 PM on Oct 13:
Regarding the first question, how DO you know? Any suggestions?
6. matthew said the following at 8:37 PM on Oct 13:
These are good questions, but are worthless if your not looking for inconsistencies.
I had this great friend who encouraged me to be closer to God, she was my ideal in many(all) ways. I felt so blessed because after a year as friend she allowed me to court her and the first few months were great. Slowly many stories from her past came out and I tactfully asked these questions. Month after month I was lied to as new details came out. Eventually I found her past was more present than she let on and I was to be a savior to her. Only God can be that.
Your article addresses nothing about seeing lies and it assumes your courtly love is being honest. Given. I'm somewhat crushed and can't stand the "ministry" right now but perhaps a good question for a woman to ask would be: "What does he and his friends say about woman, how do they treat them in speech and language."
7. David Rudel said the following at 8:58 PM on Oct 13:
I'm curious as to the "Alcohol or Drugs" reference, especially the alcohol.
I would also add to the checklist some other items that people don't consider as frequently:
i) What is he/she's viewpoint on materialism. In what ways does he/she plan on "renouncing worldly possessions" [certainly relevant as it gives a picture of what type of lifestyle can be expected.]
ii) How much debt does he/she have? Why does he/she have the debt? Was it to buy something very expensive, like a house, or was it for non-material reasons (like college). Does he/she plan on relying on the Lord for their daily sustenance, or does he/she plan on hoarding/saving money or buying a house for the peace of mind.
iii)If he/she has had intercourse with someone before, what are his/her feelings toward that person now? That is a rather overlooked aspect of the whole sex thing. Have sex with someone marries you to them in God's eyes, have both parties moved on to others?
iv) How many children do each of you desire? What are your thoughts on child-rearing? Discipline?
8. Dave said the following at 9:35 PM on Oct 13:
Why not replace "use alcohol" with "abuse alcohol"?
A couple quotes from a guy named Martin Luther:
"Do you suppose that abuses are eliminated by destroying the object which is abused? Men can go wrong with wine and women. Shall we then prohibit and abolish women?"
"God does not forbid you to drink…he permits you to drink wine and beer: he does not make a law of it. But do not make a pig of yourself; remain a human being. If you are a human being, then keep your human self-control."
9. Anonymous said the following at 9:50 PM on Oct 13:
My husband was very upfront about the fact that he wasn't a virgin. It was something I knew about him before we ever started dating. And a few months into our relationship I made a casual remark about the filter program on his computer, which led to us discussing his battle with porn (both of these things are a non-issue these days). Not having brothers or close guy friends, I wasn't aware how much guys struggle with such things. I've read some Christian books that recommend discussing these issues after a couple is engaged, but I think, if a relationship is headed toward marriage, the sooner, the better.
10. Steve said the following at 11:45 PM on Oct 13:
What happens if the answer is not what you wanted to hear on any of these?
When is it a good idea to continue in a relationship with this person, and when would it be wiser to look elsewhere?
Who to ask, where can I or we look to to work on these issues and see how these can affect us personally and as a couple?
11. Nathan said the following at 12:09 AM on Oct 14:
Thanks for this Suzanne, though I think that it is unfortunate that a young lady would have to feel as though she had to bring it up. Past (hopefully not present!!) struggles in this area are something that a Godly young man should seek to share with somebody to which he is serious about considering marriage. Honestly does not only mean not lying, it also means hiding and not fully disclosing truth. To ignore this issue and force his girlfriend/fiance to bring up the subject seems like an abdication of leadership ... and that is another real problem.
From personal experience ... is it a bit scary sharing some past struggles, of course it is! But if your girlfriend/fiance is not able to demonstrate graceful forgiveness in something that you've struggled with in the past, then you probably have reason to reconsider her maturity and character as a Godly woman. And if she is graceful and forgiving, then what an affirmation it is! Both of her character, as well as a tangible reminder and model of God's gracious acceptance of us despite our flaws.
And if you, as a guy, are presently struggling and unrepentant (as in not having exhibited meaningful change) in the area of sexual temptation ... and you're not yet married, then I might want to gently challenge whether you should be in such a serious relationships. If you can't lead yourself away from sin, how do expect not to lead your (future) wife into sin as well?
12. mindlab said the following at 3:50 AM on Oct 14:
Seems like an excellent place for the young lady's father to get involved, if he's available. It's much harder for a young guy to deceive a 50 y.o. father than a 25 y.o. daughter.
13. Louise, 43 said the following at 5:44 AM on Oct 14:
As a divorcee I would definitely advise anyone contemplating marriage to ask questions.
Not just about sexual matters, about anything you consider important...do not think "oh, I'm sure we'll just work it out as we go along!"
:)
14. Carrie (the original) said the following at 7:24 AM on Oct 14:
Questions #1 and #5, especially, need to be asked with a great deal of humility. If your significant other was the victim of a rape, there is going to be a whole bunch o' baggage that comes with that. Especially if they were given an STD as a result of that rape. There is a lot that you are going to have to deal with, but Christ's help is sufficient.
15. Elle said the following at 8:43 AM on Oct 14:
Yes, it is a good idea to be aware before you get married. But to what degree? I was not aware of the pornography that came up in our marriage, but would i have been better off if i had known? I don't think so. My husband is the most amazing man i know. He such a blessing to me. A blessing who is human. I am human. What a chance for us to learn about and experience forgiveness, and consequences and real love from our Saviour. It is wise to go into any relationship awake. It is also wise to know that God will change and use us not just to our friends and co workers but in our marriage and with our family. And that will have pain and hurt and anger and trust issues and love and joy and peace and forgiveness and understanding with it. But would i choose life without that? Never.
16. Alan said the following at 9:43 AM on Oct 14:
Suzanne, it's been almost a day since this post and no one has responded! I think you've scared everyone off :-)
I haven't had a girlfriend ask me before but plan on bringing up the subject myself next time. It will be a good thing. Thanks for the post.
17. Hannah said the following at 9:45 AM on Oct 14:
I wish I had thought to ask these during the first few weeks of my courtship. It would have saved me much heartache two years later.
18. Christina (in green) said the following at 9:47 AM on Oct 14:
Its interesting...I'm getting married in December to a guy I've been with for 8 months (in december, it'll be 8 months).
Without directly asking him the majority of those questions, I know the answer to them all. There's maybe two that I've asked him about straight forward...the rest I learned from just being around him.
About the subject of pornography, I had never asked him about it. After spending a LOT of time with him, it was something that there had never been any evidence of. Even helping him clean his room and going through his closet (helping him hang up his suit pants... they guy is HORRIBLE with laundry), I never found evidence. I wasn't actively looking, it was just a subconcious observation.
I never assumed that he DIDN'T use it, but it clearly wasn't an addiction or habit with him. After our engagement, I spent a day with his parents, where they told me countless stories about their 3 boys.
One of the things that they brought up was that there was only one time that they ever had any problems with their boys doing something they shouldn't - and they aren't certain it was their boys, but friends.
When his dad bought the boys a computer, he would actively monitor the computer periodically for porn use. It was a well disciplined effort on both parents' parts and they taught their sons well. I can see it evidenced in their respect for their mothers and respect they give to other women.
I know he's looked at it before, but not for extended periods of time and not with an addiction.
19. Suzanne said the following at 10:16 AM on Oct 14:
A disclaimer that might be helpful: This is only part of my friend's entire list. This is the list of questions relating to the "physical," (other categories include spiritual, mental and emotional) which is why drug and alcohol use is on the list.
Of course, each person will have her own personal stance on alcohol use. However, my friend warned that sometimes what appears to be casual alcohol use becomes a problem later. So it's best to look into it thoroughly.
Regarding the question of when these questions are appropriate, I think any time once the couple has begun discussing the possibility of marriage. No need to bring these up on a first date, but if you're in an intentional relationship headed toward marriage, I believe these should be addressed before you're in too deep—while it's still an option to make the decision with your head and not just your heart. That is my personal opinion.
20. Matt from DC said the following at 10:25 AM on Oct 14:
Charles from #5,
Children are a sure indicator ;)
21. DP said the following at 11:05 AM on Oct 14:
From #7
'i) What is he/she's viewpoint on materialism. In what ways does he/she plan on "renouncing worldly possessions" [certainly relevant as it gives a picture of what type of lifestyle can be expected.]'
Exactly. This seems to always be overlooked, but is just as important.
22. Niki said the following at 11:24 AM on Oct 14:
Jacob #3 -
"does your friend recommend this talk happen during engagement or sooner? Due to the sensitive nature of these questions, I can see the wisdom in waiting until engagement, but the caution side of me wonders if it isn't beneficial to bring (perhaps some of) them up sooner."
As someone who has dealt with this issues with a boyfriend (who is now my husband), definitely, definitely talk about it before engagement, as it is something that your significant other needs time to digest BEFORE deciding that you can spend your life with someone. It is hard, it can be hurtful to hear, but (we have found, anyhow), that it was far better to begin working through those things BEFORE engagement than after. In the process leading up to a wedding, there are SO many things that come up, that the less surprises there are, the better.
And, I'm certainly not saying to broach the subject on the first date or anything. When my husband and I began to talk through these things, we had been together a good 8 or 9 months or so, and knew that we wanted to move in the direction towards marriage. But he knew, he needed to come clean before he could ask me to marry him, and I am so grateful that he did.
23. farmer Tom said the following at 11:35 AM on Oct 14:
on the alcohol questions,
And, abuse of either drugs or alcohol is a different bird than having a glass of wine with dinner
Why not replace "use alcohol" with "abuse alcohol"?
I'm very busy today, don't have time for a detailed response.
But, a local man just died at 58, he had over 4 full cases and part of another case of beer in his house when he died. He died from alcohol poisoning. He was fired from his job for abusing alcohol, then making suggestive remarks to young ladies. (he was a teacher.)
When a friend of mine suggested that he needed to quit drinking, his response was, and I quote, "What's wrong with a beer once in a while, even the Bible says it's OK to drink wine".
Maybe abstinence is not only a good idea in the area of sex, but alcohol as well.
It's very hard to become an alcoholic when you never drink!!!
BTW, never had a drink of alcohol in my life, what am I missing??? Hangovers, headaches, a good buzz, loss of inhibitions, sex with random strangers, Just what is it I've missed?
24. dana111 said the following at 11:36 AM on Oct 14:
The sad thing is that, as a single woman, I would have to say yes to the majority of those questions. Yes, I had pre-marital sex. Yes, I have looked at porn (I was addicted to pornography for a long time, having my first experience with it at the age of 8). Yes, I have abused drugs and alcohol. Yes, I believe in contraception if you choose to be sexually active (even within marriage). Because of my past mistakes, and my current views, I pray to God that if I am to marry, I will marry someone who has grace enough to forgive me and love me in spite of my baggage. My past is my past. There is absolutely no way of changing that. However, I believe in the grace of God and His willingess redeem. If the man I am dating can't look past my earlier sexual sins and decides to condemn me for them instead, he may not worthy of my time. My virginity does not dictate my worth as a woman, and I am more important than what's in between my legs. Knowing that in no way excuses me of my sin, but I believe Paul when he states that "there is no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus." It would do us all good to remember that. So, don't be afraid to ask the important questions, and be honest about what you can and cannot handle. If his past sexual relationships are too much of a barrier for you to cross, then tell him that and move on. It is better to be honest with him before you get married then then to grow to resent him later.
25. farmer Tom said the following at 11:54 AM on Oct 14:
12. mindlab,
Very true.
As an adult male, my (male bovine effluvia) detector works far better when talking to some "hunky" looking college age Casanova, than some doe-eyed young female, who has visions of Brad Pitt and Matthew McConaghy? floating around in her hormone addled brain.
I know what I was like when I was that age, and I guarantee you, you can't fool me with your smooth talk, good looks and animal magnetism. I know the thoughts and intents of your heart.(ok that might be a little strong.
26. mary kate said the following at 12:02 PM on Oct 14:
steve, #10.... that's where you need to pray and seek god's direction. read scripture, get alone with god, and talk to a few trusted, wise, god-loving people.
i had a good friend who started dating a guy with a particularly icky past; the kind of thing that doesn't easily go away. he brought it up after a couple of months of dating, and she was crushed. we prayed and cried together, and i told her to run for the hills.
and you know what, i was wrong. she persevered, did lots of research, praying, and listening, and stayed with him. they got married a year ago, and are an awesome testament to the healing power of christ.
her now-husband was very upfront with her, and answered all of the hard questions she asked. she never shied away from seeking the truth, never closed her eyes to any of the hard/ugly things they had to deal with. she asked the advice of mental health professionals specializing in the relevant area, a pastor, and 2 or 3 key friends who could support her and give her truth and love.
i am so proud of both of her and her now husband, and amazed at what god has done in both of their lives.
so all that to say, i think it's different for everyone, but ask for wisdom and discernment from god, ask for good people around you so you have help asking and answering hard questions. and, as others have said, make sure the past is the past and the person in question has done the needed things to keep the past the past.
27. Keb said the following at 12:05 PM on Oct 14:
And then there's the question: What if you haven't got anyone to ask those questions to? Sigh.
28. Andrea-Elena said the following at 12:38 PM on Oct 14:
Suzanne,
When you have time, please post your friend's questions from the other key areas (spiritual, mental/intellectual, and emotional/social). I'm really interested to see what hers are.
Thanks!
29. DP said the following at 12:47 PM on Oct 14:
'BTW, never had a drink of alcohol in my life, what am I missing??? Hangovers, headaches, a good buzz, loss of inhibitions, sex with random strangers, Just what is it I've missed?'
This is just insane...
30. LouiseinPA said the following at 12:48 PM on Oct 14:
This is a helpful list. I'd also like to point out that alcohol use in itself is not sinful (as others have said), but it could be a major issue in a relationship if one of you is a social drinker and the other abstains entirely. in my family, for example, it would be difficult to abstain as nearly everyone is a social drinker. And this does not mean people get hangovers, headaches, or other behavior that exhibits symptoms of alcoholism. I am getting married next year and many of my close relatives would be upset if alcohol were not served because it's associated with celebrations.
Also, I can speak firsthand that God can overcome sin and these issues if you allow him. My fiancee and I were both virgins when we started dating but had sex after dating for a while. We both repented, however, and dated for several more months until getting engaged and now are committed to chastity.
31. Becky said the following at 12:54 PM on Oct 14:
While its important to make sure that your views on life and marriage are compatible from what I've seen of friends to often it leads to a laundry list of do's and don'ts and you never will find any one who ever measures up.(I have a friend who is 40 never married, but desperately wants to, because no women can ever measure up to the standard he has created) Something that was only vaguely talked about was what are you willing to accept? My husband was not a virgin when we got married but it was something I was willing to live with and it has not impacted out marriage one bit. You have to create your own "list" and define your own limits . For example my husband and I like to have wine with dinner (which by the way # 23 has never led to hangovers, headaches, loss of inhabitants or sex with strangers) but others don't want alcohol period. What is it you can live with? What is it you can forgive?
As for #25 my female, hormonal addled brain was quite good at picking out a husband all on its own. I have a fanatic marriage and a fanatic husband and couldn't be happier. Thanks
32. Carrie (the original) said the following at 1:04 PM on Oct 14:
farmer Tom -
First off, I have a great deal of respect and admiration for you. Never have you posted something that I have found offensive or "unChristian".
But, Christ condemned drunkeness not alcohol use.
I have, on average, 3 drinks a month. Some months higher, some months none at all. It's not that you're "missing anything", but those of who do drink in moderation do enjoy it. My church is a strong advocate of drinking in moderation. The in moderation is stressed whenever drinking is discussed.
33. Alex C. said the following at 1:08 PM on Oct 14:
Suzanne, are you going to post anymore of your friend's list to the blog? I'm very interested to see more.
34. TMD said the following at 1:11 PM on Oct 14:
dana111 (#24)
The only female thus far to ask her self those questions [thank, btw!].
If we're gonna be on a manhunt by asking males what kind of screwed up past they have, let's be equally opportunistic and ask the same of females. Here's a few for starters: Have you had an eating disorder? Have you looked at porn? When and for how long?
35. Clarice said the following at 1:26 PM on Oct 14:
I haven't read all the comments on here but I have concerns about this, Suzanne.
1. Your questions shouldn't have to be explicitely asked as if it's some sort of inquisition. People who are getting to know eachother in the context of their local church, with accountability from pastors and others shouldn't even have to ask these questions.
2. It feels like you are asking the person to make a list of ways they have acted out sinfully. Why is this important? This can create the temptation to fret, fear, and otherwise define a person by the "bad things" he has done in his life.
3. When counseling young women about what to consider in a man who is pursuing them, I make these points:
-is he accountable to other men? (NOT "does he sin?")
- is he committed to a local church?
-does he demonstrate a desire to grow in godliness, i.e., humility, dependence on God, spiritual disciplines? (NOT "does he sin?)
-does he demonstrate spiritual leadership?
All these questions are both the preliminaries and the continual questions as a relationship progresses. I would argue that it is not that a man looks at porn, isn't a virgin, has done drugs and experienced drunkenness that disqualifies him for a relationship--it's a lack of accountability and growth in the right direction that disqualifies him.
Both me and my husband were virgins before we were married--but we both sinned sexually in our hearts, too! It's the heart that ultimately counts. I guess it seems like your "questions" aren't about the heart...they are about the "deeds."
I guess it just seems like your post can have the tendency to cause women (especially women) to fear, rather than have faith in God that he will and DOES work in relationships that are submitted to him in the context of a local church...
Even if a man reveals that yes, he has had sex, done drugs, been drunk and looked at porn. Now what? Is he washed by the Blood of the Lamb? Is he getting accountability if these things are still a temptation for him? (If he is saved, he is not in bondage to sin--no addictions for the believer, otherwise Christ's death and resurrection were powerless) Is he conquering the flesh by eating God's Word daily? These are the REAL questions! These are the questions that a woman should have faith to ask and grace to explore.
I realize I may have not read your post carefully and am probably majoring on things you didn't intend. I appreciate further thoughts.
36. Tami said the following at 2:18 PM on Oct 14:
Clarice, I disagree that these don't have to be asked explicitly.
The topic of virginity or porn use doesn't come up in general mixed conversation all that often; sometimes the question *has* to be asked specifically of the other person, at the right time and in the right context, and with an attitude of humility and love. It is part of knowing the whole person, and I don't think it's a matter so much of "disqualifying" someone for marriage as it is understanding someone's past and knowing what they're doing about it today.
I also think the question of spiritual leadership is one best observed over time. As we've discussed here before, unfortunately, not all guys are Boundless readers and they don't even understand that they *need* to take on that role. In the words of Carolyn McCulley, sometimes you need "faith for the man he'll become" and watch how his walk progresses over the time you get to know him. Who knows, God might have given a man an interest in a specific woman for the explicit reason of growing the guy up in Himself. The key is to make sure he is maturing and she isn't being torn away. This all takes wisdom, discernment, and time, but it is also a matter of faith and listening to God's leading.
37. Suzanne said the following at 2:25 PM on Oct 14:
Clarice (#35),
You make some very good points. Obviously, the list of questions is just a starting point. I think women who find themselves in painful marriages may think, "If I had only known this before we got married." While there's never a guarantee of what will happen in the future, some habits (present addiction to pornography, for example) may be good indicators of future struggles.
I like your post, because you take this line of questioning a step further by delving deeper into how the person is dealing with sin (since no one is exempt!). As I mentioned in another comment, this is only the set of questions that relates to the physical. There is a whole other set relating to spiritual (which I hope to include in a future post).
Also, the questions are not necessarily meant to be asked in the way listed. There are gentle, grace-filled ways to discuss sensitive matters. However, I believe they should be discussed. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
38. BDB said the following at 2:35 PM on Oct 14:
Consider this:
When early on someone let's slip that they've "made mistakes," you can be pretty sure there is more to the story. This is perhaps even more likely if they seem nervous or hesitant when mentioning that. At that point you're going to have to make a decision.
One valid decision is to stop the relationship from proceeding any further.
Another is to watch their life for signs of repentance and accountability - a transformed life. Assume that at some point you'll be having a conversation about past sins. But start praying about whether God has prepared you to extend grace to a sinner who has repented.
This is perhaps why it is easier for divorced people to remarry another divorced person - particularly if their first marriage was while they were not Christians. They can evaluate if someone's heart has changed.
You will end up marrying a sinner. There simply isn't anything else available to marry.
39. NeedACatchyName said the following at 3:22 PM on Oct 14:
A couple of thoughts:
1) In reference to when to ask these questions, I would say that one factor to consider is how much a particular past sin is going to bother you. If it's something that's going to be a "deal-breaker" for you, then you need to find out sooner rather than later. For example, I've met folks before who said that they didn't think they could ever marry a non-virgin, or someone who's ever used porn on a regular basis. If that's you, then you probably want to find out before too far into the relationship, because you don't want to get a long way into the relationship only to break up with the person because of one of these "deal-breaker" issues. And don't get me wrong I'm not saying it's necessarily bad (or good) to have these hard-line stances, I'm just saying that you need to make the stance clear early-on so that you and the other person don't waste time on a relationship that isn't going to happen.
2) I would also like to echo those who are saying that if you're going to ask questions like these, then you need to be prepared to answer them as well. In fact, the best way to approach this is to make it clear that the other person should also feel free to ask any questions like these, so that it's not just you coming up with the questions. You might also want to break this into multiple conversations if it's all going to be too much for a single talk.
40. Laura said the following at 4:19 PM on Oct 14:
Clarice (#35),
I think I understand what you're getting at, but there are very real physical consequences when someone gets involved in physical sin. IMO, discussion should cover other issues--as you mentioned--but shouldn't exclude the physical.
Particularly if a woman were considering marriage to a man who could have STDs--the health risks for her would be much greater than if the roles were reversed. (Not sure if I said that clearly. My intent is this: Generally speaking, a woman has more to lose from getting an STD than a man does. Just the way God made our bodies.)
Whatever else you ask, knowing what's taken place on the physical level would be extremely important.
41. Anon2 said the following at 7:11 PM on Oct 14:
dana111(#24):
Thanks for bringing this up and sharing your perspective. I am a female with a similar past, and this is exactly what I thought about when I read this post.
To others that have questioned why this list is just about sex-related issues and only to be asked of males, I would just like to point out that Suzanne has mentioned that this list is not all-inclusive, and that it is not just specific to males- both members of a couple should definitely be asking these types of questions!
So...here's my question; not necessarily for the commenters on this blog, but more wondering if this could be discussed in a later blog or article:
If you do have a more colorful sexual past, what exactly should you share with a potential mate? Do you talk about number of partners, who each person was, talk about those relationships, etc? My gut tells me that nobody needs to know every gritty detail about my past, because that's just too much of a burden of information for the other person to carry...but I don't know if that's really the case, or if I just feel hesitant because, though confident in the forgiveness of my sins, I am regretful of things from my past.
I'm all for being completely honest, but when does disclosure turn into too much information for the other person to hear?
42. khalil said the following at 7:25 PM on Oct 14:
to #35...
1 - the questions aren't explicitly asked
2 - it is not a list of sinful behaviors so that we can fret, fear, or define a person but rather specific concerns that a person might have about his or her future spouse. Some people cannot handle certain behaviors (past or present) and in this current age sexual sin is rampant and does much damage.
3 - you bring up good points about accountability and mentoring
The questions that were brought up were good examples that any mentor or premarital counseling program should ask. I am happy that you and your husband were able to remain physically pure and virgin until married but I would wager that the majority of premarital couples (Christians included) are not so physically pure and virginal. Baggage from previous relationships is carried with us long after those relationships end, esp. if they were physical. Another person suggested asking about if the potential spouse was sexually active...good call and again, not a harmful question.
You mentioned:I would argue that it is not that a man looks at porn, isn't a virgin, has done drugs and experienced drunkenness that disqualifies him for a relationship--it's a lack of accountability and growth in the right direction that disqualifies him.
True, it doesn't necessarily disqualify him for a relationship but if could mean he is not ready and should not be in one at the moment. It could also mean that he isn't suitable marriage material for a particular person.
Some of what you have posted here I could pass over and say it is a difference in opinion, but I do have one BIG problem. I hope I misunderstood you. You wrote:
If he is saved, he is not in bondage to sin--no addictions for the believer, otherwise Christ's death and resurrection were powerless
I am sorry, I have to disagree with you and say that believers, fellow brothers and sisters in Christ that claim and cling to His name can indeed have addictions. Christ's death does indeed set us free and breaks the bonds of sin, but we do a real good job of shackling ourselves again. If you are implying otherwise you are dead wrong (as I said, I hope I misunderstood you).
This post and posts like it are not designed to create fear, they are designed to create awareness and appropriate boundaries within relationships. The better you know each other before marriage can help create a stronger and more trusting marriage in the long run. As sexualized as this world is today I would hate to see anyone not ask these questions and then wake up one morning to a spouse who has a sexual addiction and hidden it from his or her spouse for 5 or 6 years. Unless addressed early and effectively many of these issues can and will blow up (see the article/question posted earlier about the young man who got involved with escorts).
43. Porn said the following at 7:44 PM on Oct 14:
I struggle with porn. My fiance knows about it so I joined a support group at my church. Apparently porn can give the same chemical reactions in the brain as cocaine, which would help explain why addiction is so prevalent.
Clarice, you are right on point.
44. nikki said the following at 8:00 PM on Oct 14:
First of all, Farmer Tom, you are way out of line. Alcohol certainly doesn't have to lead to hangovers or sex with strangers. Your judgmental behavior is sometimes tolerated by myself because sometimes your opinions are correct. But this time you are completely off-base. Many people choose to abstain from alcohol, but none have any kind of moral superiority over those who choose to responsibly enjoy God's gifts of food and drink.
"3 The one who eats is not to regard with contempt the one who does not eat, and the one who does not eat is not to judge the one who eats, for God has accepted him. 4 Who are you to judge the servant of another? To his own master he stands or falls; and he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand. 5 One person regards one day above another, another regards every day alike Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind. 6 He who observes the day, observes it for the Lord, and he who eats, does so for the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who eats not, for the Lord he does not eat, and gives thanks to God."
Farmer Tom, please keep passages such as this one in mind before you intentionally and snidely provoke needless arguments amongst your brothers and sisters in Christ. You may not drink - that is fine. But please don't act like it makes you better than everyone who does.
But getting back to this original post: it's made me suddenly paranoid. There's no evidence of any of this behavior in my boyfriend of two years, and I'm certain of his purity. But now I just wonder, for no reason beyond this blog, if I've been fooled. I hate that feeling. I know I can trust him, and I do, but now I'm just afraid to ask (even though I have before!).
45. Kimberly Eddy said the following at 8:43 PM on Oct 14:
I think that something I would add to the list that Suzanne's friend has is to find out if a guy (or girl) thinks that getting married is going to "fix" their temptations (Whatever they may be). From what I have observed, there are many single Christian guys who seem to think that the problem they have with pornography is not a problem with *them* but they think that the problem is not being married....and that is a lot of pressure to put on a future wife. A guy that has deceived himself into thinking that getting married means the removal of temptation is only going to blame his wife after she fails to live up to that expectation, and there will be lots of pain for them both.
Naturally, what's sauce for the gander is sauce for the goose...this goes for questions a guy asks a girl too. Is she expecting him to "fix" her?
With my own dark past, I am not judgmental about someone else's...what concerned me more while dating was what that person was like now, and what God had done in their lives now, not stupid things done in college--because who I am now is not who I used to be (Praise Him)....however I know not every guy was able to deal with the baggage, and that is just fine. I'd rather be up front about it and have them dump me early on than to keep it a big secret and have it all come out one day after we're married, especially if this something that is going to be an issue for them.
in the same way, a guy should be very honest about it. I think it is very unfair to hide, for example, an addiction to pornography, from your girlfriend/fiancee. Do you think your future wife will be happy to find this out after she made a vow to you for the rest of her natural life? Let her decide BEFORE you make the vow, because being lied to about it will only make it worse in her eyes (and vice versa of course).
46. Adam D. said the following at 9:17 PM on Oct 14:
Here's some helpful advice. Every young man has looked at porn, and has most likely struggled with it. When I was living on a dorm at a Christian school, every guy was able to open up in prayer groups and such and confess that they, too, struggle with pornography. In this day and age, when all it takes is one click of a button, of course every man has seen it, been addicted to it, and has fought it. The only men who haven't are either liars, or they are truly celibate and have no desire for a woman. And if I'm wrong there, then they are among the most Godly men alive today, practicing Godliness at the level of a true saint.
It is reasonable to assume that a guy has problems with pornography, it's how hard he fights it that you want to watching out for.
47. Rachael said the following at 9:51 PM on Oct 14:
I have most likely recommended this book already on this site and possibly more than once, but I really do recommend "When Sinners Say I Do," and I think I should re-read parts. It talks a lot about sin. I wrote little blurbs about it on my blog. I think I should reread and think more about parts of this book. Lots of practical theology in there.
48. farmer Tom said the following at 10:43 PM on Oct 14:
DP said,
This is just insane...
OK, explain to me what I'm missing?
Give me some reason you believe that by abstaining from alcohol I have in any way been deprived of some deeply important thing in life.
Name one, just one.
Oh, by the way, when's the last time you were hugging the procelain throne, heaving everything but your toe nails, and vowing never to do that again??
I've never done that, but I've had lots of people who claim to be moderate drinkers tell me about the last time they got hammered and how much fun it was.
49. Leah said the following at 11:51 PM on Oct 14:
Clarice, these questions do not have to be fired at the person like an inquisition. You don't have to ask them all in the one conversation. They are simply topics that you should find out about.
And it's not necessarily "ultimately the heart that counts". If you sin in your heart but then realise what you're doing is wrong and you do not act upon it, that is better than going the whole hog.
You imply that Suzanne is telling women to find out "does he sin?" DUH. Of course he does! She is advising that we find out about the more destructive sins that he might have engaged in, and how he is handling it now and whether he's repentant and fighting it. That is important.
Nowhere does she suggest that having "looked at porn, isn't a virgin, has done drugs and experienced drunkenness" disqualifies a guy from a relationship. Where on earth did she say that? Did you miss the part that said "This is not meant to say that if your guy doesn't measure up in one of these areas, you must dump him, my friend points out."
Not only are you majoring on things she didn't intend, you're majoring on things she's purposely pointed out are NOT her point!
50. Leah said the following at 11:58 PM on Oct 14:
Jacob (#3) - SOONER. These answers could impact your decision as to whether you'd want to marry this person or not. You should know this before engagement arrives.
51. Annonymous 2 said the following at 4:16 AM on Oct 15:
To dana 111 #24
My husband also answered yes to most of the questions Suzanne posted above. We've been together 20 years, married almost 19. He says that he was stressed about discussing a lot of these things with me (some had come up before we started dating and hung out with the same friends). I asked some follow-ups and was satisfied.
He is a great husband and a fantastic dad to our two boys. His previous sexual hx doesn't haunt our marriage, his exposure to porn didn't result in addiction, his drug and alcohol use has not been an issue (we are both social drinkers).
I know that there are men out there who will extend to you grace about your past just as God does, about our past and present actions and attitudes.
52. Ray said the following at 7:59 AM on Oct 15:
If you are willing to ask the questions, the girl should be willing to answer questions herself. Maybe the girl doesn't struggle with porn specifically, but does she she struggle with self-esteem, eating disorders, unrealistic expectations from watching shows like "The Bachelor" or "Grey's Anatomy". Christians and society will easily shun porn and rightfully so but gloss over women issues like the above mentioned.
53. LouiseinPA said the following at 8:08 AM on Oct 15:
BDB, i think that's an excellent point. It's critical to have conversations about sin or issues we struggle with. But the bottom line is everyone sins and the important this is looking for a sign of repentance, turning towards God.
I'm a little bothered by Christians who won't overlook past sexual sin or drug abuse. To me, it seems unloving and unforgiving. No one is without sin and everyone will sin against their spouse at some time. A healthy marriage can work through sin and issues through forgiveness and open communication.
54. Jeni said the following at 8:48 AM on Oct 15:
#38 BDB
"You will end up marrying a sinner. There simply isn't anything else available to marry." So true!
We should be asking and answering all of these questions, both men and women, through out a dating relationship. Some of the questions should be asked directly and some of them will come out in time spent together. These are important things to know before marriage. Not because there isn't room for grace and God's restoration, but because we should have our eyes wide open when we walk into marriage.
I like to think I'll be given the opportunity to walk in grace with my future husband and he will have an opportunity to show grace to me.
55. KM said the following at 11:04 AM on Oct 15:
OK, explain to me what I'm missing? Give me some reason you believe that by abstaining from alcohol I have in any way been deprived of some deeply important thing in life. Name one, just one.
You're not missing anything. Alcohol is just a drink, it's not a fundamental part of the human experience. I'd say there's no particular reason to drink, and I've never gone out of my way to do so.
Oh, by the way, when's the last time you were hugging the procelain throne, heaving everything but your toe nails, and vowing never to do that again??
I've never done that.
I've had lots of people who claim to be moderate drinkers tell me about the last time they got hammered and how much fun it was.
Sadly, those people are deluding themselves. They are not moderate drinkers. They may rationalize their behavior by saying they're only moderate drinkers, but that doesn't make it true.
56. Jo said the following at 11:09 AM on Oct 15:
I don't get the farmer Tom hating in this thread. I often find his posts too blunt and occasionally even offensive, but with this one I think people are reading more into it than he said. He seemed to merely be suggesting that it might be a wiser choice to stay away from alcohol, rather than claiming that consumption of alcohol is inherently Biblically wrong.
And to be honest, if you're someone who is tempted to drink too much (which is a lot of people in this day and age), that advice is spot on.
57. BDB said the following at 11:39 AM on Oct 15:
LouiseinPA (#53) wrote:
>>I'm a little bothered by Christians who won't overlook past sexual sin or drug abuse.<<
Hmmm...I'm not sure I'd use the term "overlook." I prefer to suggest that we should all prayerfully consider how God expects us to extend grace; like the prayer says, "forgive us our sins as we forgive those who sin against us."
Way back in high school I made the offhand comment to someone that if I found out a friend was using drugs, I'd drop them as a friend. She distanced herself from me after that. One time in college I called her up, and I think I was talking to a drunk family member who invited me to come to the party, and she was in the background screaming no. I never did get to the bottom of that: she died of breast cancer at age 28. I had gone to her mom's funeral in Jr. High.
This kind of stuff may come up even before "dating." I've had several women make oblique references to their "past" long before it occurred to me to ask. I suppose the fact that I remember those conversations so clearly is an indication it's important. Oblique references are often the opportunity to discuss what kinds of things you are able to extend grace for, and what you would expect to see in terms of repentance.
Frankly, I think that this is why single mothers seem to be quick to talk about their kids. If it's a deal-breaker, they would rather know up front. While some people end up in that situation through no fault of their own, there are others where it's quite apparent there are additional issues.
58. Khalil said the following at 12:20 PM on Oct 15:
I'm a little bothered by Christians who won't overlook past sexual sin or drug abuse.
I am not getting self-righteous either, but there is a reason NOT to overlook sexual sins or drug abuse...they have a great tendency to come back in a hellish way. If I am getting involved with someone to the point that I might marry her I will unashamedly be looking out for signs of sexual immorality, drug abuse, AND several other red-flags. If I feel comfortable enough to know the person has moved beyond those issues I might consider continuing the relationship, if not then perhaps I am not the person for her. What we do in the past and present impacts the future, there are consequences.
On an aside, you know what really bugs me???? Not that you asked, but here goes. Herpes medication commercials. Trying to take the consequences and stigma of an STD away. See...I don't want to have to deal with that. If a future spouse is in my future and she has herpes or all this other baggage...sorry, I am not going to put myself at risk for her past problems.
59. khalil said the following at 7:47 PM on Oct 15:
sorry for the grammar on #58, I typed in a hurry before I had to go to a meeting ;)
60. DP said the following at 8:38 PM on Oct 15:
Farmer Tom,
What is insane is not that you don't drink or have never drank. What is insane is your judgementalism of seemingly ALL people who drink. It's also insane that boundless would post a post that is 'offensive, cynical, snarky, disrespectful, and irrelevant.
And even though I don't need to respond to your personal judgements, since I became a Christian, I have never been 'hugging the procelain throne, heaving everything but your toe nails, and vowing never to do that again'.
And anyone who 'claims to be moderate drinkerer but tells you about the last time they got hammered' needs to be rebuked. But NOT anyone who drinks or has drank in moderation and enjoys God's good gift.
BTW, what would I be missing if I have never eaten a steak dinner? Gluttony is surely a problem with Americans and many Christians, but I've never seen you (or anyone else for that matter) post proudly that you've never eaten steak because eating it MIGHT lead to gluttony...
61. Leah said the following at 8:44 PM on Oct 15:
farmer Tom, if you're suggesting we should stay away from anything that can be abused, then that means we should stay away from motor vehicles, sex, food, and money.
Sure, it's not wrong to abstain from alcohol; just like it's not wrong to abstain from driving, sex, or money. (Though good luck abstaining from money in this world).
The point is, alcohol is just another thing God has given us to use wisely that many people abuse.
Your reasoning for avoiding alcohol is that it leads to hang overs, sex with strangers and loss of inhibitions. Based on that reasoning, I could say that we should avoid vehicles because they can lead to accidents, death and serious injury. Or we should avoid food because it can lead to illness, obesity and greed.
It's the ABUSE of alcohol, food and cars that leads to these results. Not the thing itself. So instead of avoiding food, cars, or alcohol, we should avoid the ABUSE OF food, cars and alcohol.
If you think you can't do that, then by all means, avoid the thing itself. But you can't act like partaking of the thing is what causes the ill effects. No, it's the abuse of the thing which causes these ill effects.
62. Dave said the following at 9:20 PM on Oct 15:
Farmer Tom:
When a friend of mine suggested that he needed to quit drinking, his response was, and I quote, "What's wrong with a beer once in a while, even the Bible says it's OK to drink wine".
Maybe abstinence is not only a good idea in the area of sex, but alcohol as well.
It's very hard to become an alcoholic when you never drink!!!
If you personally decide not to consume alcohol, I don't have a problem with it. If you try to force that upon others - particularly considering that there's evidence that Jesus himself both made and consumed wine.
Contrary to what you might think, the reported level of alcohol abuse is actually higher amongst Baptists (generally anti-alcohol) than amongst Presbyterians (more likely to drink).
63. Dave said the following at 9:38 PM on Oct 15:
Oh, by the way, when's the last time you were hugging the procelain throne, heaving everything but your toe nails, and vowing never to do that again??
I've never done that, but I've had lots of people who claim to be moderate drinkers tell me about the last time they got hammered and how much fun it was.
What a coincidence. I've never done that either, although, unlike you, I did have a glass of wine this evening.
64. LouiseinPA said the following at 6:23 AM on Oct 16:
Khalil, perhaps overlook is the wrong word. The point is thought that ALL of us have baggage or sin. Sure, you want to have discussion about past sexual sin/drug abuse but if a person has repented and moved on, it shouldn't always be a deal breaker. What I'm trying to get at is that sometimes Christians say that they "deserve" a spouse who is a virgin, never used drugs, etc because they haven't. To me, that reeks of "earning" a prize. You don't earn a spouse who hasn't sinned...God gives you an imperfect spouse as a gift and you learn from each other. THat is what I"m trying to say.
65. Kelly said the following at 7:49 AM on Oct 16:
21ST CENTURY DATING IN BIG CITIES
The 'virgin' discussion comes up on the first or second official date. I hate that it does, but inevitably, most dates finish with that awful conversation I hate having.
"Come home with me."
"No."
"Why not?"
...and it turns into the big long conversation of how I'm saving sex for marriage and the guy is horrified/incredulous that I'm a virgin and surprise surprise, the 'relationship' goes nowhere.
You can argue that I'm picking the wrong men; fair enough. But these are generally men I know as friends, who confess a belief in God. And for me, that's a good start since we all know how difficult it is to find someone in church! Or anywhere at all, really.
Now, #41. Anon2, asked:
"I'm all for being completely honest, but when does disclosure turn into too much information for the other person to hear?"
Anything more than 'Yes I have had sex before'. Seriously, they don't need to know the details. When I was in my early 20's and dating the guy I was sure I would marry, he confessed to me the number of women he'd slept with. I went home and threw up. I just could not deal with it.
66. Louise,43 said the following at 12:05 PM on Oct 16:
It has been about twenty years since I last got physically ill as the result of overdrinking.
Some people can drink alcohol without abusing it.
Others cannot.
But to everyone, please do not drive if you have been drinking!
Either drink at home or have someone else drive.
67. Katrece said the following at 3:42 PM on Oct 16:
To #58:
Right on about not overlooking sexual sins and alcohol abuse. I'm not saying I won't marry a guy who's been addicted to porn. But I need to know that it's been a long time since he's been addicted. Also, I need to know that he's repented, and been through spiritual healing.
As far as alcohol is concerned, I have no problem with drinking. As long as it's not in excess. I'm 25 and have only had a total of 5-6 drinks (spread out over four years, lol). I rarely drink because I could care less about getting to have alcoholic beverages, and don't want to get addicted to it. Besides, alcohol is way to expensive these days. I'm on a budget :)
People. Seriously. Give Tom a break. He's explained himself.
68. Katrece said the following at 4:06 PM on Oct 16:
#38 I have to respectfully disagree with your thoughts on divorcees.
Roughly 50% of all first marriages end in divorce. Second marriages are twice as likely to end in divorce. That means 75% of second marriages won't last.
Yes, divorcees, as you put it, can "evaluate" a person. But 3/4 of them evaluate, get married and, before you know it, one of the covenanted parties has walked out the door.
69. Mike said the following at 4:13 PM on Oct 18:
BDB (#57) writes:
I think that this is why single mothers seem to be quick to talk about their kids. If it's a deal-breaker, they would rather know up front.
Slightly off-topic comment - This might be a completely valid motivator, but, speaking as a guy, this topic should be kept somewhat subdued. It can come off as, "My life is my children" - which means, "I have no room for a man in my life, or, if I make room for you, you're destined to play second fiddle to my kids." No guy wants to hear that from a potential mate.
Just sayin'.
70. farmer Tom said the following at 4:33 PM on Oct 18:
I am highly amused. Most of you who defend your use of alcohol failed to do two things.
First, not one of you answered the question I asked, so I will quote myself and repeat it.
[quote]"OK, explain to me what I'm missing?
Give me some reason you believe that by abstaining from alcohol I have in any way been deprived of some deeply important thing in life.
Name one, just one."[/quote]
Second, while I do appreciate the sarcasm in the cute attempt to equate eating a steak with the consuming of alcohol (very funny), you might want to consider a different tactic, since I'm pretty sure one can live without consuming alcohol, but living without eating meat is a much more difficult proposition. I'm sure it can be done, but why? After all, no one ever got obese eating meat since it is a protein and the human body does not make fat out of protein.
Thirdly, I never once said that drinking alcohol is a sin, I only suggested that far too many who claim to be moderate drinks are in fact liars, who are alcoholics who will not admit it.
I think this one amused me the most though. I nearly laughed out loud.
[quote]'First of all, Farmer Tom, you are way out of line. Alcohol certainly doesn't have to lead to hangovers or sex with strangers....... But this time you are completely off-base.' [/quote]
No it certainly doesn't have to, but then you and I both know that the effect of alcohol on the typical human is a lowering of inhibitions which all to ofter leads to a sexual encounter one later regrets.
Our culture knows and assumes that the effects of alcohol on the human being will lead to decisions that one later regrets. Since this post is supposed to be about the hard questions, it would seem appropriate to remind some of you that abstinence might be a wise choice while in the process of finding a marriage partner.
Finally, ladies, you need to read this link, the statistics are irrefutable, 90% is a huge percentage:
http://www.brown.edu/Student_Services/Health_Services/Health_Education/atod/drd.htm
if you want to help avoid date rape, avoid alcohol.
71. J. Calon said the following at 4:02 AM on Oct 20:
Farmer Tom
I live in a country where it is routine to have a bottle of wine on the table. We have a bit of wine with lunch, a bit with dinner.
It is part of our culture, as it is in a large part of the world. We do not get "hammered."
If you want to abstain, fine. But your judgmentalism about anyone who chooses to follow Scripture and take advantage of one of the gifts God has given us -- in moderation -- does not speak well of your brand of American fundamentalism.
Remember, there are more Christians in the world as a whole than there are in America. We love the Lord as much as you profess. The difference, I think, is that we do not force our cultural baggage on our faith, as you seem to do.
72. J. Calon said the following at 4:07 AM on Oct 20:
Farmer Tom
I forgot to add: the incidence of coronary disease in my country is much lower than in your country, and scientists attribute this largely to the beneficial effects of the wine we routinely drink.
Please explain that.
73. Jessica said the following at 9:43 PM on Oct 22:
As a married woman, I am so thankful for a husband who is fighting for purity. Here are some questions that i wanted answered before we were married.
Does he practice media discretion? (if you told him I don't think you should watch this show because it has a lot of inappropriate content, would he willingly stop watching? or if he saw inappropriate images, would he change the channel on his own?) Does he have a way to help him stay away from pornography (like a filter)? Does he bounce his eyes from provocatively dressed females? Does he encourage you to dress modestly? Can he honestly admit to the temptation he faces in this area and discuss what he is doing to battle it?
Sexual sin will destroy lives. We have a marriage, two children, and a ministry that could be ruined from sexual sin.
We do everything we can in our home to prevent from using an internet filter, practicing media discretion, maintaining strict boundaries in relationships with the opposite gender, and the best one of all... enjoying freedom within the marriage relationship to be intimate with each other!
74. Morgan said the following at 12:57 PM on Oct 28:
I'm way late on this, but thought I'd chime in anyway.
farmer Tom:
"Second, while I do appreciate the sarcasm in the cute attempt to equate eating a steak with the consuming of alcohol (very funny), you might want to consider a different tactic, since I'm pretty sure one can live without consuming alcohol, but living without eating meat is a much more difficult proposition. I'm sure it can be done, but why? After all, no one ever got obese eating meat since it is a protein and the human body does not make fat out of protein."
1: I was vegetarian from ages 8 to 20 and was fine. I didn't think it was difficult.
2: I majored in biology and it's just not true that you don't make fat out of protein. If you ate 10,000 calories a day of all protein and no fat you would still get fat. And steak has plenty of fat in it anyway. Calorie King says a steak from Outback has 56% calories from fat, 44% from protein.
Anyway, I appreciate your views farmer Tom. I personally enjoy having a single drink occasionally when I am around people who do not struggle with alcohol abuse. According to Psalm 104 wine is from God and gladdens the hearts of men. So I guess that's what you are "missing out on." I bet it's pretty cool to sky dive too but I doubt I will experience that thrill in my life. And vegetarians don't experience eating meat. And those with the gift of singleness don't experience sex. These are all pleasurable things, but not necessities to living.
No one would get drunk if everyone abstained from alcohol, but in it's place I believe it is a gift from God just, similar to sex, money, and food.
75. Paul Clutterbuck said the following at 5:04 PM on Dec 19:
khalil #42, Thanx so much. You put it so much better than I ever could.
TMD #34, I absolutely agree that this is something for guys to ask women too. The sexualization of young women in the last century is one of the most painful realities in our world, much more so than the most radical surgery (and I've had some), or increases in the cost of living, or any economic or geopolitical crisis you could name. It used to be that you could always trust the majority of women to be pure, even if none of the men were. Nowadays, I'm not sure that I can trust anyone! That doesn't give me confidence that my future wife will be able to maintain fidelity in marriage, which hurts me more than anything else.
Yes, I agree that being candid about these matters hurts. It hurt badly when my fiancee revealed her past to me last year, tho I loved her just the same and the pain of knowing her past didn't make our breakup any easier. But it's better to know in advance than after you've tied the knot, that's for sure. Just ask my mother ...