Guyland by Steve Watters on 09/08/2008 at 8:30 AM

Have you seen the book Guyland by Michael Kimmel?  I just picked up a copy and started reading it.  Kimmel is a professor of sociology at State University of New York, Stony Brook. He's far afield from typical Boundless writers -- in fact Gloria Steinem is one of his book endorsers -- but it appears he has written a valuable book.

The cover flap to the book makes this proposition: "Only by understanding this world [Guyland] and this life stage can we enable young men to chart their own paths, to stay true to themselves, and to travel safely through Guyland, emerging as responsible and fully formed men of integrity and honor."

So how does Kimmel define Guyland? Here's an excerpt:

Guyland is the world in which young men live. It is both a stage of life, a liminal undefined time span between adolescence and adulthood that can stretch for a decade or more, and a place, or, rather, a bunch of places where guys gather to be guys with each other, unhassled by the demands of parents, girlfriends, jobs, kids, and the other nuisances of adult life. In this topsy-turvy, Peter-Pan mindset, young men shirk the responsibilities of adulthood and remain fixated on the trappings of boyhood, while the boys they still are struggle heroically to prove that they are real men despite all evidence to the contrary.

Kimmel believes that readers of his book (which are most likely to be people who aren't in Guyland) should "appreciate and support individual guys while engaging critically with the social world they inhabit." He goes on to say:

In fact, I believe that only by understanding this world can we truly be empathic to the guys in our lives. We need to enter this world, see the perilous field in which boys become men in our society because we desperately need to start a conversation about that world. We do boys a great disservice by turning away, excusing the excesses of Guyland as just "boys being boys" -- because we fail to see just how powerful its influence really is. Only when we begin to engage in these conversations, with open eyes and open hearts -- as parents to children, as friends, as guys themselves -- can we both reduce the risks and enable guys to navigate it more successfully.

Thoughts?

Guyland by Steve Watters on 09/08/2008 at 8:30 AM

Have you seen the book Guyland by Michael Kimmel?  I just picked up a copy and started reading it.  Kimmel is a professor of sociology at State University of New York, Stony Brook. He's far afield from typical Boundless writers -- in fact Gloria Steinem is one of his book endorsers -- but it appears he has written a valuable book.

The cover flap to the book makes this proposition: "Only by understanding this world [Guyland] and this life stage can we enable young men to chart their own paths, to stay true to themselves, and to travel safely through Guyland, emerging as responsible and fully formed men of integrity and honor."

So how does Kimmel define Guyland? Here's an excerpt:

Guyland is the world in which young men live. It is both a stage of life, a liminal undefined time span between adolescence and adulthood that can stretch for a decade or more, and a place, or, rather, a bunch of places where guys gather to be guys with each other, unhassled by the demands of parents, girlfriends, jobs, kids, and the other nuisances of adult life. In this topsy-turvy, Peter-Pan mindset, young men shirk the responsibilities of adulthood and remain fixated on the trappings of boyhood, while the boys they still are struggle heroically to prove that they are real men despite all evidence to the contrary.

Kimmel believes that readers of his book (which are most likely to be people who aren't in Guyland) should "appreciate and support individual guys while engaging critically with the social world they inhabit." He goes on to say:

In fact, I believe that only by understanding this world can we truly be empathic to the guys in our lives. We need to enter this world, see the perilous field in which boys become men in our society because we desperately need to start a conversation about that world. We do boys a great disservice by turning away, excusing the excesses of Guyland as just "boys being boys" -- because we fail to see just how powerful its influence really is. Only when we begin to engage in these conversations, with open eyes and open hearts -- as parents to children, as friends, as guys themselves -- can we both reduce the risks and enable guys to navigate it more successfully.

Thoughts?

Comments

[1. Cliff said the following at 9:08 AM on Sep 8:]

1

Interesting,

I found that the nuisances of adult life is what helps me grow toward to becoming a man.

[2. mary kate said the following at 9:52 AM on Sep 8:]

2

wow. this from a non-religious writer? fantastic. i might have to pick this book up.

[3. Saidah said the following at 11:50 AM on Sep 8:]

3

Wow. It's about dang time. I wonder how society's going to take that book? I wonder if people will read it? I mean, we live in a pop-saturated society and pop culture LOVES "Guyland." What will people do with a book that exposes it?

[4. Melissa Kamakawiwoole said the following at 12:19 PM on Sep 8:]

4

This is not a new thing. I just ended a relationship with a guy in his 40's who was a total non-committal and is now seeing a woman overseas who is 15 years his junior.
The Peter Pan syndrome is not new. Some don't figure this out, they don't value what a family or a wife means, they just want to serve their own agenda and it doesn't matter how many hearts get wrung out in the process.

[5. BDB said the following at 12:44 PM on Sep 8:]

5

Do they have a version of Guyland for the Wii yet?

[6. Dan realname said the following at 4:32 PM on Sep 8:]

6

BDB (#5)...

Nice!

[7. Jon said the following at 8:55 PM on Sep 8:]

7

Interesting, I'm in the "Guyland" age (24), but I'm definitely an adult. I do see parents, girlfriends, jobs, etc. as hassles in some ways though. However, as a Christian man, I'm devoted to serving God through youth ministry and beyond; that is what takes up my time and energy. I actually just left a Bible study where most of the guys are in between adulthood and being a kid because I couldn't stand the fact that these guys just didn't seem to care about doing anything with their lives.

[8. Jade said the following at 9:17 PM on Sep 8:]

8

I started reading an article on msn about this book but it got too depressing as I thought about all the guys I know, both Christian and unsaved, who fit the profile. And it made me thank God that I snapped up my man when I did! What the article left me wondering was this: what can be done to prevent guys entry into this "guyland"? I think the women in their lives, be it mom, sisters, or girlfriends can do a lot to encourage men to just grow up, but it is such a pervasive problem.

[9. John the Aggie said the following at 10:38 PM on Sep 8:]

9

My roommates and I discuss this all the time. We have a term we use to describe the level of personal ambition apparent in a guy: "life-momentum". Some guys just don't have it, nor do they appear to want it, and these are students at a solid university! We absolutely do not understand it. We live in a land of unlimited opportunities... how could you possibly not 'reach for the stars' here?

They are both top-notch pre-med students with stellar GPA's. I, God willing, will soon be on the other side of the world helping to build a bridge from our oil economy to the sustainable future. None of us is a super-genius... we just work hard, plan ahead, and make the most of every opportunity we're given. I have many friends just like us, and many who... just don't care. Where does this divide originate???

For us, an extended stay in guyland just doesn't have any appeal - we have future wives, families, and careers to get ready for!

[10. Adam said the following at 11:25 AM on Sep 9:]

10

I don't quite know how to approach this article. In many ways, I live in "Guyland." I very much enjoy getting away from it all - play some video games, watch some football, or just take a break.

On the other hand, I worked my way through college. I've got a decent job, a pretty nice apartment. I pay all my own bills, wash all my own clothes, etc. I'd like a girl to be in the picture, but my town seems to be devoid of single Christian women. Helping out at church does take some of my time. I've still got my fair share of "free" time though.

Perhaps manhood is just what I would consider what is needed for an independent decent standard of living. I know many would say that no guy is a man before he has a wife and kids. In which case, I've failed miserably thus far. It would be interesting to see how Kimmel describes a man - and what responsibilities he ties to it.

[11. JamesUK said the following at 12:23 PM on Sep 9:]

11

"unhassled by the demands of parents, girlfriends, jobs, kids, and the other nuisances of adult life"

I find this an interesting sentence for a couple of reasons. Firstly the assumption that the author appears to be making is that most young men (and at 23 I count myself amongst them) consider those people or circumstances not only as equal problems but all as equally cumbersome. I would tend to disagree. Holding down a job is a completely different kettle of fish to having a girlfriend/kids etc. I need a job to pay my bills, rent etc and so there really is no choice involved; we need to survive and so we need to work. Having romantic relationships, getting married and having children are portrayed by some as necessary rights of passage to “adulthood” but they are still choices in a way that work is not. People who choose to refuse work may have their benefits decreased. Thankfully we cannot say the same of those who do not choose marriage.

The second point to make is that the language used by the author may end up turning young men against the very behavior he seeks to promote. Using words like “ the responsibilities of adulthood” leads to manhood appearing as an onerous and thankless task; something grudgingly accepted rather than embraced.
Against that backdrop, the young man is faced with two choices. On the one hand he sees a relatively easy life devoted to purely hedonistic pursuits. The other appears a drudge. Honestly, given free reign, which would you choose? In addition, the thought may occur that the true motives behind those encouraging boys to become men are somewhat different than they appear. Rather, they may simply come to the conclusion that because they are miserable and regret their responsibilities that they would seek to make all young men as thoroughly miserable as they are (and based on some of the us of language this is not a difficult conclusion to come to). Finally there is the “ there aren’t enough good men” brigade, suggesting to young men that their development is nothing more than an excuse to saddle them with un met longings of others at the first instance.

So, what do we say to that? Firstly responsibility does produce character. It certainly has in me. Getting up and going to work has made me a great deal more responsible than I would otherwise have been. I’m also firmly against those who leech off their parents whilst living a party lifestyle. I do not agree who include marriage in this list (I know plenty of married men who seem more like kids than adults). Rather, living on ones own without parental or marital support will engender true personal responsibility as with no one to fall back on the buck really does stop with you. Those who are unwilling to become fathers or husbands must be discouraged from leading women on and to that end should not ask them out in the first place. As I have learnt (from adopting this practice myself) it is the only sure fire way to not become responsible for another’s broken heart.

[12. Amir Larijani said the following at 12:47 PM on Sep 9:]

12

BDB: I'm sure that will be in the 2.0 release.

[13. Jaime said the following at 2:23 PM on Sep 9:]

13

My husband had some men in his small group like this - no matter how you try to engage them, nothing seems to get through the non-commital boy they choose to be. The best place for boys to become men is in their directions from and interactions with their dads and other godly men. The expectation needs to begin early that what God expects of men is what is expected - period. A book that is popular in my young family's group is called "Raising a Modern-Day Knight". We have to be intentional here, folks. This wasn't an issue 100 years ago.

[14. Elusive Wapiti said the following at 6:27 PM on Sep 9:]

14

I wonder if the authors would consider writing a companion volume to this book entitled "Girl-World" or something like that.

No doubt that there is a bit of extended adolescence among men these days, so much so that the "man-as-child" motif gets really old when you hear it over and over.

But is it really that different for women? I mean, just how mature are the women who charge into marriage, only to be the one to dissolve it later, often after children have arrived? How mature are the women who spend the money they earn in the fruitless pursuit of happiness-via-career on clothes and shoes and dining out? Just how mature are the laddettes who drink like unabashed frat boys and pour their sexuality into the street for all to see? And how mature are the women who pursue man-not-included single motherhood?

Seems to me that both sexes have maturity issues these days, but it's only the guys we're hearing about. Personally, I'd like to see both sexes held to the same standard of responsibility.

[15. Anon. said the following at 11:13 AM on Sep 10:]

15

Being a girl..I do agree with certain points Elusive (#14) has brought up - but i'd say that from what i see - the trend is there for girls but seemingly is more prominent around guys.

I'm from Asia so it might be different over here but even at my church it seems as if the people who serve actively in church are mostly girls. I'm pretty sure it's more than just the guy girl ratio...it seems to me that although many girls have made it a point to live holistically (church, family, friends, work/college), the guys are...not

[16. mary kate said the following at 4:29 PM on Sep 10:]

16

i think there's a different but equally damaging trend with women... so if i were to write the book i might call it something like 'i can have it all: women in denial in the 21st century.' or maybe 'woman uber älles: controlling everything except the giant hole in her heart.'

[17. a sassy sister said the following at 6:36 PM on Sep 10:]

17

elusive wapiti:

well said. In my opinion, both sexes need to be held to the same standard, but the controversy continues because of not only what standards men and women should be held to equally but also in the application of such standards of behavior. When we are going to get off the merry go round of the sex blame game? Everytime I try to focus on other people's behavior, all of the flaws/issues in my thinking, attitudes, and behavior are not on display. I am not advocating self-absorption and a withdrawal from community. But if our conversations about this are not producing any fruit in our lives and drawing others to the gospel of Christ, what's the point?

Immaturity is not exclusively a male problem. Our understanding of what it means to be a a mature person as an adult is.

[18. Mike said the following at 5:11 PM on Sep 11:]

18

I don't know if anyone listens to the John Eldredge audio podcast, but oddly enough, the most recent episode spoke to this issue, if in a roundabout manner. The subject was "Checking Out" - the tendency of people (he was talking with Craig McConnell about men specifically, but women do it too) to "lay back", "take it easy", "not stress yourself". He couched it in very interesting terms - almost like it's the enemy whispering in your ear: "Aw, don't bother about looking for a job today...it's not worth the effort." "Gee, do you really want to get out of bed and go to church today?" I think that might contribute to the lack of intentionality we see among the young today. I know it was true in my case for years - and I still fight against it today.

It was a rather interesting discussion. Curious parties can check it out at http://feeds.feedburner.com/ransomedheartaudiopodcast

[19. Joseph Abraham said the following at 6:30 AM on Sep 12:]

19

I've noticed the whole guyland thing but I have noticed the extension of the college/adolesence thing among women too.

Immaturity knows no bounds or demographic. Alot of older men are immature too. Immature people draw to other immature people and hence the lack of commitment.

[20. Landis said the following at 10:48 PM on Sep 15:]

20

IT's too bad that this book does not address the critical mass of boy-men who are not leading in a spiritual manner. Christianity has become somewhat of a backlash to so many female wannabees who have tried to feminize men by telling them to be more sensitive, wear pink, play the guitar and read Wild at Heart by Eldredge. Not that any of those are inherently wrong but, I think we have given them a distorted picture of what a true Christian man looks like and the church isn't helping to dispel that image-in fact, its progressing it into the 21st century. As a woman, I look around at the numbers of men who are in bible studies and leading others and I am scared-they are supposed to be taking up the roles of pastors, missionaries and professionals in the secular world and their numbers are dwindling. I am shocked by the number of guys who are not being mentored, who are not devoting themselves to serving, who are not leading-why is that?!?

[21. a sassy sister said the following at 11:34 AM on Sep 16:]

21

Landis,

As a Christian woman, I understand your sentiment. However, I think the issues at play go deeper than it being just a backlash against feminism. I think the problem goes back to discipleship and real community in the body of Christ---and that's something that affects men AND women.

There are probably plenty of reasons/explanations as to why this is a problem. But I think the big question that all of us individually as Christians can do is to go to Scripture to see what God says about it and ask the Lord what he would have us do individually regarding this. For women, it could mean encouraging(not nagging) and affirming our brothers in leadership who are being mentored/discipled. For men, it could mean stop asking other people to define who you are as a man and looking to what Scripture says about the matter, knowing how to divide between cultural exprectation and Christ's commands to them as believers.

Joseph Abraham:

I agree that immaturity knows no bounds or demographic. I also believe that a big problem in regards to this issue, whether a man or woman, is what we define to be maturity, and whether or not that standard is based on a solid scriptural or cultural influences.

[1. Cliff said the following at 9:08 AM on Sep 8:]

1

Interesting,

I found that the nuisances of adult life is what helps me grow toward to becoming a man.

[2. mary kate said the following at 9:52 AM on Sep 8:]

2

wow. this from a non-religious writer? fantastic. i might have to pick this book up.

[3. Saidah said the following at 11:50 AM on Sep 8:]

3

Wow. It's about dang time. I wonder how society's going to take that book? I wonder if people will read it? I mean, we live in a pop-saturated society and pop culture LOVES "Guyland." What will people do with a book that exposes it?

[4. Melissa Kamakawiwoole said the following at 12:19 PM on Sep 8:]

4

This is not a new thing. I just ended a relationship with a guy in his 40's who was a total non-committal and is now seeing a woman overseas who is 15 years his junior.
The Peter Pan syndrome is not new. Some don't figure this out, they don't value what a family or a wife means, they just want to serve their own agenda and it doesn't matter how many hearts get wrung out in the process.

[5. BDB said the following at 12:44 PM on Sep 8:]

5

Do they have a version of Guyland for the Wii yet?

[6. Dan realname said the following at 4:32 PM on Sep 8:]

6

BDB (#5)...

Nice!

[7. Jon said the following at 8:55 PM on Sep 8:]

7

Interesting, I'm in the "Guyland" age (24), but I'm definitely an adult. I do see parents, girlfriends, jobs, etc. as hassles in some ways though. However, as a Christian man, I'm devoted to serving God through youth ministry and beyond; that is what takes up my time and energy. I actually just left a Bible study where most of the guys are in between adulthood and being a kid because I couldn't stand the fact that these guys just didn't seem to care about doing anything with their lives.

[8. Jade said the following at 9:17 PM on Sep 8:]

8

I started reading an article on msn about this book but it got too depressing as I thought about all the guys I know, both Christian and unsaved, who fit the profile. And it made me thank God that I snapped up my man when I did! What the article left me wondering was this: what can be done to prevent guys entry into this "guyland"? I think the women in their lives, be it mom, sisters, or girlfriends can do a lot to encourage men to just grow up, but it is such a pervasive problem.

[9. John the Aggie said the following at 10:38 PM on Sep 8:]

9

My roommates and I discuss this all the time. We have a term we use to describe the level of personal ambition apparent in a guy: "life-momentum". Some guys just don't have it, nor do they appear to want it, and these are students at a solid university! We absolutely do not understand it. We live in a land of unlimited opportunities... how could you possibly not 'reach for the stars' here?

They are both top-notch pre-med students with stellar GPA's. I, God willing, will soon be on the other side of the world helping to build a bridge from our oil economy to the sustainable future. None of us is a super-genius... we just work hard, plan ahead, and make the most of every opportunity we're given. I have many friends just like us, and many who... just don't care. Where does this divide originate???

For us, an extended stay in guyland just doesn't have any appeal - we have future wives, families, and careers to get ready for!

[10. Adam said the following at 11:25 AM on Sep 9:]

10

I don't quite know how to approach this article. In many ways, I live in "Guyland." I very much enjoy getting away from it all - play some video games, watch some football, or just take a break.

On the other hand, I worked my way through college. I've got a decent job, a pretty nice apartment. I pay all my own bills, wash all my own clothes, etc. I'd like a girl to be in the picture, but my town seems to be devoid of single Christian women. Helping out at church does take some of my time. I've still got my fair share of "free" time though.

Perhaps manhood is just what I would consider what is needed for an independent decent standard of living. I know many would say that no guy is a man before he has a wife and kids. In which case, I've failed miserably thus far. It would be interesting to see how Kimmel describes a man - and what responsibilities he ties to it.

[11. JamesUK said the following at 12:23 PM on Sep 9:]

11

"unhassled by the demands of parents, girlfriends, jobs, kids, and the other nuisances of adult life"

I find this an interesting sentence for a couple of reasons. Firstly the assumption that the author appears to be making is that most young men (and at 23 I count myself amongst them) consider those people or circumstances not only as equal problems but all as equally cumbersome. I would tend to disagree. Holding down a job is a completely different kettle of fish to having a girlfriend/kids etc. I need a job to pay my bills, rent etc and so there really is no choice involved; we need to survive and so we need to work. Having romantic relationships, getting married and having children are portrayed by some as necessary rights of passage to “adulthood” but they are still choices in a way that work is not. People who choose to refuse work may have their benefits decreased. Thankfully we cannot say the same of those who do not choose marriage.

The second point to make is that the language used by the author may end up turning young men against the very behavior he seeks to promote. Using words like “ the responsibilities of adulthood” leads to manhood appearing as an onerous and thankless task; something grudgingly accepted rather than embraced.
Against that backdrop, the young man is faced with two choices. On the one hand he sees a relatively easy life devoted to purely hedonistic pursuits. The other appears a drudge. Honestly, given free reign, which would you choose? In addition, the thought may occur that the true motives behind those encouraging boys to become men are somewhat different than they appear. Rather, they may simply come to the conclusion that because they are miserable and regret their responsibilities that they would seek to make all young men as thoroughly miserable as they are (and based on some of the us of language this is not a difficult conclusion to come to). Finally there is the “ there aren’t enough good men” brigade, suggesting to young men that their development is nothing more than an excuse to saddle them with un met longings of others at the first instance.

So, what do we say to that? Firstly responsibility does produce character. It certainly has in me. Getting up and going to work has made me a great deal more responsible than I would otherwise have been. I’m also firmly against those who leech off their parents whilst living a party lifestyle. I do not agree who include marriage in this list (I know plenty of married men who seem more like kids than adults). Rather, living on ones own without parental or marital support will engender true personal responsibility as with no one to fall back on the buck really does stop with you. Those who are unwilling to become fathers or husbands must be discouraged from leading women on and to that end should not ask them out in the first place. As I have learnt (from adopting this practice myself) it is the only sure fire way to not become responsible for another’s broken heart.

[12. Amir Larijani said the following at 12:47 PM on Sep 9:]

12

BDB: I'm sure that will be in the 2.0 release.

[13. Jaime said the following at 2:23 PM on Sep 9:]

13

My husband had some men in his small group like this - no matter how you try to engage them, nothing seems to get through the non-commital boy they choose to be. The best place for boys to become men is in their directions from and interactions with their dads and other godly men. The expectation needs to begin early that what God expects of men is what is expected - period. A book that is popular in my young family's group is called "Raising a Modern-Day Knight". We have to be intentional here, folks. This wasn't an issue 100 years ago.

[14. Elusive Wapiti said the following at 6:27 PM on Sep 9:]

14

I wonder if the authors would consider writing a companion volume to this book entitled "Girl-World" or something like that.

No doubt that there is a bit of extended adolescence among men these days, so much so that the "man-as-child" motif gets really old when you hear it over and over.

But is it really that different for women? I mean, just how mature are the women who charge into marriage, only to be the one to dissolve it later, often after children have arrived? How mature are the women who spend the money they earn in the fruitless pursuit of happiness-via-career on clothes and shoes and dining out? Just how mature are the laddettes who drink like unabashed frat boys and pour their sexuality into the street for all to see? And how mature are the women who pursue man-not-included single motherhood?

Seems to me that both sexes have maturity issues these days, but it's only the guys we're hearing about. Personally, I'd like to see both sexes held to the same standard of responsibility.

[15. Anon. said the following at 11:13 AM on Sep 10:]

15

Being a girl..I do agree with certain points Elusive (#14) has brought up - but i'd say that from what i see - the trend is there for girls but seemingly is more prominent around guys.

I'm from Asia so it might be different over here but even at my church it seems as if the people who serve actively in church are mostly girls. I'm pretty sure it's more than just the guy girl ratio...it seems to me that although many girls have made it a point to live holistically (church, family, friends, work/college), the guys are...not

[16. mary kate said the following at 4:29 PM on Sep 10:]

16

i think there's a different but equally damaging trend with women... so if i were to write the book i might call it something like 'i can have it all: women in denial in the 21st century.' or maybe 'woman uber älles: controlling everything except the giant hole in her heart.'

[17. a sassy sister said the following at 6:36 PM on Sep 10:]

17

elusive wapiti:

well said. In my opinion, both sexes need to be held to the same standard, but the controversy continues because of not only what standards men and women should be held to equally but also in the application of such standards of behavior. When we are going to get off the merry go round of the sex blame game? Everytime I try to focus on other people's behavior, all of the flaws/issues in my thinking, attitudes, and behavior are not on display. I am not advocating self-absorption and a withdrawal from community. But if our conversations about this are not producing any fruit in our lives and drawing others to the gospel of Christ, what's the point?

Immaturity is not exclusively a male problem. Our understanding of what it means to be a a mature person as an adult is.

[18. Mike said the following at 5:11 PM on Sep 11:]

18

I don't know if anyone listens to the John Eldredge audio podcast, but oddly enough, the most recent episode spoke to this issue, if in a roundabout manner. The subject was "Checking Out" - the tendency of people (he was talking with Craig McConnell about men specifically, but women do it too) to "lay back", "take it easy", "not stress yourself". He couched it in very interesting terms - almost like it's the enemy whispering in your ear: "Aw, don't bother about looking for a job today...it's not worth the effort." "Gee, do you really want to get out of bed and go to church today?" I think that might contribute to the lack of intentionality we see among the young today. I know it was true in my case for years - and I still fight against it today.

It was a rather interesting discussion. Curious parties can check it out at http://feeds.feedburner.com/ransomedheartaudiopodcast

[19. Joseph Abraham said the following at 6:30 AM on Sep 12:]

19

I've noticed the whole guyland thing but I have noticed the extension of the college/adolesence thing among women too.

Immaturity knows no bounds or demographic. Alot of older men are immature too. Immature people draw to other immature people and hence the lack of commitment.

[20. Landis said the following at 10:48 PM on Sep 15:]

20

IT's too bad that this book does not address the critical mass of boy-men who are not leading in a spiritual manner. Christianity has become somewhat of a backlash to so many female wannabees who have tried to feminize men by telling them to be more sensitive, wear pink, play the guitar and read Wild at Heart by Eldredge. Not that any of those are inherently wrong but, I think we have given them a distorted picture of what a true Christian man looks like and the church isn't helping to dispel that image-in fact, its progressing it into the 21st century. As a woman, I look around at the numbers of men who are in bible studies and leading others and I am scared-they are supposed to be taking up the roles of pastors, missionaries and professionals in the secular world and their numbers are dwindling. I am shocked by the number of guys who are not being mentored, who are not devoting themselves to serving, who are not leading-why is that?!?

[21. a sassy sister said the following at 11:34 AM on Sep 16:]

21

Landis,

As a Christian woman, I understand your sentiment. However, I think the issues at play go deeper than it being just a backlash against feminism. I think the problem goes back to discipleship and real community in the body of Christ---and that's something that affects men AND women.

There are probably plenty of reasons/explanations as to why this is a problem. But I think the big question that all of us individually as Christians can do is to go to Scripture to see what God says about it and ask the Lord what he would have us do individually regarding this. For women, it could mean encouraging(not nagging) and affirming our brothers in leadership who are being mentored/discipled. For men, it could mean stop asking other people to define who you are as a man and looking to what Scripture says about the matter, knowing how to divide between cultural exprectation and Christ's commands to them as believers.

Joseph Abraham:

I agree that immaturity knows no bounds or demographic. I also believe that a big problem in regards to this issue, whether a man or woman, is what we define to be maturity, and whether or not that standard is based on a solid scriptural or cultural influences.