Half-Naked Olympians
by Motte Brown on 08/12/2008 at 2:57 PM
I don't mean to be a downer but I just couldn't watch the half-naked women playing volleyball last night. I'm not torn up about it or anything. I really don't expect modest sportswear in the Olympics. The skimpiness was just a little too much, that's all. So we had to skip our nightly Olympics viewing as a family because it didn't end before our kids' bedtime.
Funny thing about kids though. They notice stuff like that without provocation. Before we turned off the TV, they made comments about them "wearing underwear" and such. It proved to be a teaching moment.
We mused for a little about why they might need to wear really, really small and really, really tight tops and bottoms. You know, for uninhibited movement for a sport that requires quickness. (Not that that necessarily would make it OK.) But then we saw the men's volleyball team with their much bigger and loose fitting tops and bottoms. So that was out.
We'll address it further in this Friday's podcast but here's a chance to get a head-start on the discussion if you're interested. Are some sports fashions really all about maximizing athletic ability? I just think they're often about style and higher ratings, particularly in the case of women's volleyball.
What do you guys think? Or am I the only one that's a little uncomfortable with all the "underwear"?
1. Amber said the following at 3:11 PM on Aug 12:
Great post! This has been a source of frustration for me.
I am offended and embarrassed by the women's volleyball team attire and the countless hours of coverage that the sport receives. How is it that the athletes who actually swim wear full bodysuits and the beach volleyball players practically wear dental floss. Due to the attire, beach volleyball doesn't even look like an athletic sport.
This event is a shame and an unfortunate damper on an otherwise exceptional Olympic games.
2. tallboy said the following at 3:25 PM on Aug 12:
I agree. Personally, I'm uncomfortable and am tempted by any girl in 2 piece suite, especially if they're athletic. In this post-modern age we're just expected to sit back and accept everything that is culturally approved, and if we don't we're seen as extreme narrow minded fundamentalists. I think that certain sports fashions like wrestling, weight lifting or gymnastics are geared towards maximizing athletic ability and flexibility.
3. Louise, 42 said the following at 3:48 PM on Aug 12:
I'm not personally offended by the tight beach volleyball outfits, but I would certainly think that looser outfits would assist the athletes in their performance.
As for two piece bathing suits I don't purchase them due to family history of skin cancer.
One piece suits reduce the amount of necessary sunscreen.
4. Jorden said the following at 4:05 PM on Aug 12:
Yeah, I agree that was kinda tough at some points for me...like the parts they weren't doing an overview :P. I doubt they'd do anything to change it, but I agree it would be nice for them to wear something with a little more fabric. I just tried to get past it best I could, and it was a good match otherwise.
But at least they don't do it like the original Olympics :P. Of course, that was just men back then, but that's besides my point.
5. Heather Ashley said the following at 4:13 PM on Aug 12:
I too turned on my TV to watch some of the olympics yesterday and changed the channel because of the immodest attire. My younger brother, who is 19, was sitting right there with me. I was embarrassed to have him see that. It was interesting to me that we had previously been watching the men's diving duos. It didn't bother him and I was focusing on their form (the divers), entry and so on...but it did bring a thought to my mind (after the women's volleyball came on) of how much we focus on the athlete's bodies during the games. What makes them so good is how good of shape they are in. To some extent, I feel that different types of clothing is needed for some sports. I am personally a runner, and if I just run a few miles, I can wear my baggy t-shirt and long basketball shorts (my usual sport attire), but if I am running long distances, I personally don't want to walk like a cowboy the next day and I don't need my shirt getting in my way or rubbing wrong either. You won't find me just wearing spandex and a super tight lyrca running shirt. But you will find me in clothes I wouldn't normally wear in day to day activities. With as much effort as these athletes put into their sport, clothing is a big issue for maximum movement and pressure/energy exerted on skin by clothing. But women's volleyball is a stretch, I would have to agree with you Motte on that for sure, and probably mostly for the ratings.
6. Bryan Schroll said the following at 4:19 PM on Aug 12:
I am a married father of four. We were watching the Olympics on Saturday night, which included women's beach volleyball. On Sunday morning, I thought that it was best if we, as a family, did not watch this event. I especially did no want my 7 year old son watching. I explained the reasoning and the kids agreed that this should not be watched.
I tend to think that NBC broadcasts this even primarily because of the skimpy attire. But, that does not mean we have to watch.
7. Miss S said the following at 4:35 PM on Aug 12:
Thank you for bringing this up, Motte. I definitely feel embarrassed by what female athletes wear at times. I do tend to be jaded when men say how much they enjoy watching women's volleyball (or other similarly attired sports). Oh really? And would you be interested if they wore clothes, not underwear? *sigh* I'd be interested in hearing some honest perspectives from the guys on this one.
8. Ellie said the following at 4:46 PM on Aug 12:
Umm, I'm pretty sure Kerri Walsh asking President Bush to smack her (bikini-clad) bum was much worse than the fact that it was bikini-clad (Bush, to his credit, lightly tapped her back with the small of his hand). May-Treanor and Walsh are the two best beach players in the world (they're winning streak is incredible), but they are clearly not the two best role models.
9. Craig M. said the following at 5:26 PM on Aug 12:
At some point don't you have to pick your battles? I mean, clearly the two-piece suits aren't "necessary" to play volleyball. But they're not string bikinis either, and the ladies aren't acting in a deliberately sensuous manner. I dunno...limited ammunition and everything.
10. J. Tucker said the following at 6:15 PM on Aug 12:
Do the athletes themselves choose their attire? I was under the impression that those in charge of the USA Olympic team chose a "uniform" for every sport. Does anyone know for sure?
11. RF said the following at 6:24 PM on Aug 12:
A few from my YA group had a similar conversation on Sunday night at dinner as we watched clips from women's beach volleyball. We agreed it was unnecessary for them to be so scantily clad when it wind friction is not an issue in the sport. How much modesty has our culture given up when our athletes are willing to parade themselves internationally? especially in China, where modesty is much more valued than it is here...
12. JB said the following at 6:39 PM on Aug 12:
This raises an issue that interests me. As Jorden mentioned above, the original Olympics were performed almost completely nude and this was not considered by the ancient Greeks to be particularly scandalous or sexual (though, admittedly, there is probably an element of the sexual in any form of athletics). So our responses to nudity and various kinds of clothing are largely culturally determined. A contemporary American, a Victorian Briton, and an ancient Greek would probably all respond very differently to clothing and would differ on the degree to which that clothing constituted sexual temptation.
That being the case, I wonder: to what degree does telling children, implicitly or explicitly, that certain clothing is wrong or bad or inappropriate protect them from temptation in later life by leading them to avoid exposure to it? Might such instruction not have the opposite effect by making some forms of clothing taboo and thus alluring? Is the child told to avoid two piece bathing suits really better off than the child who grows up thinking of them as no more dangerous or remarkable than any other kind of athletic wear? My personal feeling is that making such a big deal out of what volleyball players wear is probably more likely to be counterproductive.
13. cait said the following at 7:05 PM on Aug 12:
I am a runner. I don't wear quite so skimpy clothes but at the same time I know the things I wear aren't the most modest. I really don't know if putting comfort and performance over modesty is being selfish or not, I struggle to know that line. But thank you to all the men who did turn off the tv it gives me hope that even if I have crossed that line that not guy will deliberately take advantage of the fact that I'm just trying to go for a run and not come home chaffed!
14. Paul said the following at 7:36 PM on Aug 12:
I agree that the women's beach volleyball outfits are revealing and uneccesarily so, but why is nobody really bringing up the men's diving attire???
15. Leah said the following at 8:17 PM on Aug 12:
Can I please request you don't condemn the individual teams for this.
I don't know about the Olympics, but I do know that certain international beach volleyball competitions have requirements for the size of women's outfits and they get disqualified if, say, the waist band of their bottoms are too wide.
It's awful, I know. But don't go around condemning the individual athletes as immodest or dressing unnecessarily when it's out of their control.
Amber- if you think the women's beach volleyball outfit is "dental floss", you've clearly never seen a string bikini.
16. dana111 said the following at 8:30 PM on Aug 12:
You do know that the ancient Greek olympians performed completely naked, right?? They were also pagan, by the way.
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/08/0809_040809_nakedolympics.html
17. Heidi said the following at 8:40 PM on Aug 12:
hi motte,
thanks for this post. i'm interested to hear the team's perspective on the podcast this friday (i love it!!), especially candace's viewpoint - i adore her and would trust her with any life-changing decision.
being a woman, i'm not personally bothered by the women's beach volleyball attire. but that's just because i'm a girl. just the same, i don't think it's right, either. if i had a brother, i would NOT have let him watch their games.
the thing i personally had a BIG problem with was the men's diving duos. now THAT i had a hard time with. we women don't typically have the visual problems like men do - i sure don't - and i'm not opposed to a guy with his shirt off or anything, but a speedo? why can't they wear the suits that the swimmers do? or at least streamlined swim shorts? for one, speedos show WAY too much skin. two, did anyone notice where every guy's hands flew once the camera showed them under the surface of the water? and it's not just under the water... they're CONSTANTLY checking to make sure the thing is in place. now THAT is hard for me to take.
oh, and while i'm at it... did anyone hear the brief interviews of the two american guys? how gay did THEY sound... SO. DARN. GROSS.
for me, michael phelps is INFINITELY more interesting to watch. he's classy, gracious, doesn't talk like a fruitcake, and if the whole thing comes down to attractiveness for nbc... if you ask me, as a woman, michael phelps is absolutely irresistible because he's kind and is properly covered.
and he WINS!!!!!!!!!
18. Justice said the following at 8:56 PM on Aug 12:
this is the kind of thinking that led missionaries to cloth people in other countries when it was not necessary. For instance, in Brazil, Christian women do wear less because it's so hot.
19. Leah T. said the following at 9:06 PM on Aug 12:
Not to excuse the skimpiness of their attire but I'm offering something of an explanation/ counter argument.
First of all, I work in television and am familiar with the ridiculous strategies employed to boost ratings. I highly doubt the design of any of the attire qualifies as such - not just in women's volleyball, but in any of the sports. I would be more likely to argue that the scantily clad status of the athletes is influencing the amount of coverage a given sport is getting, if anything.
At the same time, NBC's strategy is clearly to show sports that have the most popularity (and, unfortunately, not much of anything else). The honest truth is that beach volleyball falls into that classification, and nobody more so than May-Treanor & Walsh. They're beach volleyball's poster girls - and because of their athleticism, not their attire.
Now, as for why they wear what they wear... I honestly have no idea. But keep in mind that female bodies are built a lot differently than male bodies and the issue of chaffing is therefore a bit different. Also, seriously, the sport is played on a beach. And in southern california, where May-Treanor & Walsh live/train, that kind of attire is pretty much the standard.
As I said though, not an excuse.
20. whs said the following at 9:10 PM on Aug 12:
J. Tucker (#10),
Regulations For Athens
See section 24
http://www.fivb.org/EN/BeachVolleyBall/Competitions/Olympics/WATH2004/2004%20Specific%20Events%20Regulations.pdf
21. Joseph Abraham said the following at 9:11 PM on Aug 12:
I understand the concern about the clothing as a guy I can absolutely say that there is some temptation but at the same time we see this sort of thing at the beach and even christian women wear these sort of outfits. Its important to note that all the olympic womens volleyball teams wear these outfits. Its also important to point out that modesty is as much about attitude as it is clothing.
But what about collegiate volleyball players or even male boxers.
Basically I'm not sure this is a right or wrong issue. I mean the male beach volleyball players don't wear shirts is this considered immodest. Its just hard to find what the line is.
22. Laura said the following at 9:19 PM on Aug 12:
Beach volleyball...snooze. I definitely don't think it would be on in prime time if the outfits weren't so skimpy.
23. D.Williams said the following at 9:35 PM on Aug 12:
Athletes competed in the ancient Olympics totally nude. I consider the modern uniforms an improvement.
24. Liz said the following at 10:06 PM on Aug 12:
just playing devil's advocate here... while i somewhat agree with your views... what about those who wear "speedos" in swimming? the long swimwear isn't necessarily for modesty, but for "fastness" and aerodynamics. some, like myself, do not think that those suits really do such things... but speedos for men are fine.
25. Anna said the following at 10:17 PM on Aug 12:
I am so glad to see this article! I agree completely and appreciate you taking a stand on the issue of modesty. Your article and the comments that followed are also reminders to me of the importance and responsibility we have as women to be modest in our own lives, not just to point a finger at those who aren't on TV, which is a lot easier to do. I am reminded of why mixed swimming and crowded days at the beach are also unwise ideas. Any thoughts on this?
26. Adam said the following at 11:21 PM on Aug 12:
There's nothing wrong with the attire. True, it was decided on at some point by some committee. There is talk about men not wearing shirts in volleyball in future Olympics. Up until the full body suit came into style 8 years ago, men's water events were far more scandalous than what the women are wearing in volleyball. I've never seen anybody complain about the men's attire.
The Olympics are extremely family friendly. You can choose to be offended by 2 weeks of tv with no sex, violence, or bad language. You can choose to be offended by people who have shown an incredible degree of discipline and determination - things far lacking in this society. I'm sure if we try hard enough we could come up with a reason to hate Shawn Johnson (sparkly swimsuit to draw attention to her body) and Michael Phelps (halfway stripping after his leg of the 4x100 & 4x200.)
If we want to make any kind of difference in the culture and in the entertainment industry - perhaps we should be wholeheartedly supporting quality clean entertainment such as this. Or we can choose to find some way to be offended about everything and totally lose our voice.
27. nikki said the following at 11:27 PM on Aug 12:
I'm sick of women, or producers, using every potential opportunity to parade vaguely clad bodies around. It is time women started respecting themselves either by refusing to wear that nonsense, or by refusing to watch it. Those "outfits" are completely gratuitous. It's like throwing random sex scenes in movies where they serve no purpose in furthering the plot.
The really sickening part is that women in general seem to appreciate being made into sex symbols.
28. Sadie said the following at 11:45 PM on Aug 12:
Modesty is an interesting topic. I found the clothing of the women's volleyball team to be sadly lacking. I watched the last few moments then moved on.
29. Brendan said the following at 1:18 AM on Aug 13:
Check the Wiki article about beach volleyball, it highlights the controversies about the issue. The IOC actually regulates the maximum size of the suits.
I don't have as much of a problem with the fact that it's two-piece, because, as the article notes, other sports do that too and when it comes to sand in the suit it's better to have two pieces than one. But if women want to wear a proper pair of shorts, then let them!
But they don't, because sex sells, and people are certainly buying beach volleyball.
30. Amy said the following at 3:39 AM on Aug 13:
Re: "How much modesty has our culture given up?" Olympians in contemporary times are significantly more clothed than their predecessors. If anything, we have progressed towards a culture more bashful of the human figure.
I fail to understand why this is offensive. If we are to take a cue from Thomas Aquinas and look to nature for how things are 'supposed' to be, it's clear that nudity is one of the most natural things in the world. What in the world did we do before we were clothed, as evidenced in the archaeological record?
31. 'Guerite ~ BoldLion said the following at 3:54 AM on Aug 13:
Do we have any volunteer to ship some nice clothes for the women's volleyball team to wear?
I haven't watch it on TV because I don't watch TV at all. I read all the time. :)
I am a sport fan but for UNC-Tarheels! I do like to watch sport, but I will not like to watch sport if they are going to wear "birthday suit" chad.
Have fun!
'Guerite ~ BoldLion
32. Mike said the following at 7:34 AM on Aug 13:
Didn't the first Olympians compete completely naked?? Obviously we've come a long way since for the better and I'm in agreement that the athletes are not deliberately acting in a provocative manner. Besides, I know some women who "don't mind" when Michael Phelps and the rest of mens swim team choose to wear just speedo trunks instead of the full body suit!
33. Dan Gill said the following at 7:42 AM on Aug 13:
There is no sports- or performance-releated reason why the female beach volleyball players should wear such skimpy attire. It's all about stimulating male libidos. I won't watch it. It makes me angry to be manipulated. It makes me angry that so many women believe that they must dress provocatively to be alluring. I channel that anger toward the Father of Lies.
34. Tigger said the following at 7:43 AM on Aug 13:
I haven't been watching the Olympics, because, funnily enough, they are broadcast on US times, and I'm not in the US, so it's hard to find the games at reasonable hours.
Interestingly, up until recently, gender testing was allowed at the Olympics. Apparently during the latter half of the 20th century, there was suspicion that Eastern European countries were sending male athletes in women's sports and thus increasing their chances of winning. Whether or not that was true, there were still a series of physical exams (which I'm sure were quite humiliating) and other tests for women who competed. Some women were barred after tests revealed they had abnormal chromosomes that might indicate they were men (though in fact they were women) and had always been women.
So some of the regulations to prevent this humiliating discrimination and questionable barring of athletes included wearing uniforms that made it clear which gender a person belonged to.
After time, better tests were developed - primarily being the supervised urine test for drugs and steroids - that being very hard to fake, so much of the more revealing uniforms are now unnecessary...unless of course, you are hoping to make your competition more watchable.
Here are some links from some respectable organizations: http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2008/jul/30/olympicgames2008.gender
http://news.yahoo.com/s/livescience/20080805/sc_livescience/olympicswiseupongendertestingfinally
35. Loris said the following at 7:59 AM on Aug 13:
I don't see why the beach volleyballers can't wear the same spandex shorts indoor volleyball players wear.
36. KJ said the following at 8:13 AM on Aug 13:
I hadn't seen any footage of the beach volleyball team in action, so I had to look up pictures...yikes! It had occurred to me that a LOT of sports are scantily clad (swimming, gymnastics, and track/field come to mind.) I was kind of surprised nobody had mentioned that yet, though I do see why in some cases avoiding wind resistance or whatever might be important. Although I for one was baffled in the Olympics one year when I was younger because the US Women's track/field team had these little uniforms that looked like swimsuits, ostensibly to cut down on wind resistance, but at the same time had four-inch-long manicured fingernails and the biggest earrings I'd ever seen. Didn't make sense to me.
37. Chantell said the following at 8:45 AM on Aug 13:
I've enjoyed watching the Olympic beach volleyball events. In fact, when I saw the men wearing their long shorts and shirts, I assumed they were a lot less comfortable than the women. Having spent most of my life in sunny South Florida, where I'm currently enduring another broiling summer, I know that less clothes means easier breathing, especially when you're exerting yourself.
These athletes are the best in the world, and their fine-tuned bodies reflect the glory of their Creator. If the viewer sees something provocative in that, then I humbly suggest that it's his heart that needs changing, not their attire.
38. Becca said the following at 8:56 AM on Aug 13:
Having played indoor volleyball in school, I know that we were required to wear spandex shorts and not too loose tops. It wasn't something that I would wear off the court but having closer-fitting outfits does help when you have to move fast, move your arms and react quickly. I don't think it's fair to compare the men and women's attire because I think society has more to do with why men wear loose clothing than functionality.
Also, beach volleyball has evolved from...the beach! Where bathing suits are the standard. Most games are played on sand, in the heat, on the beach. I would much rather play in a two piece bathing suit (which most of their sportswear has to be somewhat supporting...especially when you are being that active) than baggy shorts and tshirt. I'm sorry if some of that offends you but looking at men in skin-tight swimming and gymnastics outfits isn't exactly my favorite thing either. I'm sure some "marketability" comes into play when the "powers that be" decide what they players can and can't wear.
I mean should we talk about how much the olympics are probably only continued to promote products instead of the actual sports? Everyone jumps on the patriotic, olympic bandwagon. Would we care as much if we weren't so successful in these games?
39. Jo said the following at 9:02 AM on Aug 13:
Heidi: "...especially candace's viewpoint - i adore her and would trust her with any life-changing decision."
eek, really? that's kinda worrying... and i'm sure candice wouldn't want you to trust any life-changing decision solely to her!
40. IMO said the following at 9:07 AM on Aug 13:
Heidi,
You had me cracking up!
"did anyone notice where every guy's hands flew once the camera showed them under the surface of the water? and it's not just under the water... they're CONSTANTLY checking to make sure the thing is in place. now THAT is hard for me to take."
41. IMO said the following at 9:15 AM on Aug 13:
Oh one more thing ...
About the cultural wearing of more or less clothing...
In Genesis, after Adam and Eve sinned (and the start of the fallen world began), "the eyes of both of them were opened, and they realized they were naked; so they sewed fig leaves together and made coverings for themselves." And then "The LORD God made garments of skin for Adam and his wife and clothed them."
So obviously there was something shameful in them being naked in front of each other, once Sin entered the picture.
42. OlyWatcher said the following at 9:26 AM on Aug 13:
But did anyone catch the mens' attire in the primetime synchro diving event? Given, most women are not affected in the same way that a man would by seeing a woman in a skimpy swimsuit, but the mens' swimsuits are way too small and form-fitting.
43. Bethany D. said the following at 9:52 AM on Aug 13:
The (lack of) clothing issue is why my mom & I stopped following figure skating; the outfits got so skimpy we no longer felt comfortable watching the show with my dad & brothers. Once in awhile we'll still turn it on... but usually when we know the guys are out of the house.
44. Steph said the following at 9:57 AM on Aug 13:
Heidi (#17):
First of all, just because you don't agree with a person's lifestyle choice does not make it ok to call people "fruitcakes" or "SO. DARN. GROSS." I'm offended by that and I am not even gay.
Secondly, Michael Phelps is not always properly covered. After the 4x100 relay he pulled the top part of his swimsuit down so low part of his bottom was visible, and the front bits were in danger of being as well! Now THAT is gross!
45. J. Tucker said the following at 10:33 AM on Aug 13:
Heidi (#17):
You should be thankful that the men on the diving team wear Speedos. You would be seeing a whole lot more of them if they were wearing ordinary swimming trunks. As a diver and a swimmer, I know from experience (unfortunately) that the impact of diving into the water is more than likely to rip those trunks right off my body than it is with a Speedo. Second, diving is partly about splash. Speedos make less splash than trunks.
And as for your comments about where hands go, no one said that a Speedo was comfy. They are crazy tight! Without going into more detail, I'll hazard a guess that wearing a Speedo is just about as uncomfortable as wearing a tight sports bra while playing volleyball.
Overall, I have to agree with the comments about culture affecting our views of modesty and sexuality. I think modesty is a good thing, but I don't think any guy on the diving board is up there wearing a Speedo because he wants to look sexy. And for the record, wearing a Speedo doesn't make you any more gay than wearing trunks makes you straight.
46. Tigger said the following at 10:44 AM on Aug 13:
On the topic of the ancient Greeks competing nude, while, yes, that is true - there is a significant difference. Only men competed, and only men were allowed to watch the games. Women were barred from any sort of participation.
Our culture is quite interesting about viewing bodies - we see them everywhere, it sells just about everything under the sun, we all know everyone has one, and yet we still feel a subversive shame about our and others' bodies, as if they are something that is not quite natural. It's hard to find a balance.
47. Miss S said the following at 10:45 AM on Aug 13:
Are we really comparing our current clothing in the Olympics with the Greeks? Hmmm...I don't know if should make our standards of athletic attire based off of Greek (pagan) culture. AS IMO (#41) just pointed out, God made modesty one of the first reactions to sin. Our bodies have worth and value and should not be displayed cheaply.
48. BDB said the following at 11:48 AM on Aug 13:
whs (#21) had a good link. It seems that one-piece suits ARE an option.
OK, I understand the sand thing. Any volunteers to go put on a one-piece spandex suit and dive into the sand 20-30 times?
I wonder if teams choose the 2-piece option to intimidate their opponents: I'm tall, I'm buff, I'm going to pound you into the sand...
I do agree with The Daily Show that Bush's decision to only pat the small of her back was a good decision...given the alternative...on camera even...
49. tsc said the following at 12:50 PM on Aug 13:
Steph (#44)
So it's not ok for Heidi to say someone is gross or to call someone a fruitcake, but swearing is ok? How about NOT using the "a" word. That's pretty hypocritical - especially since you called Phelps gross. Hello?!
Overall, yeah I wish the gals and guys would cover up a little more, but it's not a debate or issue I'm going to lose sleep over.
50. Christina (in green) said the following at 1:15 PM on Aug 13:
Apparently with athletes, things like chaffing are incredibly common if without the proper attire.
What you wear needs to be appropriate to the environment that you are working in and accomodating of the sport.
Gymnasts wear skin tight spandex because baggy clothing can get in the way and cause a VERY bad accident.
As Tucker pointed out, divers would lose their swim trunks and get docked points for splashes if they chose not to wear speedos.
Runners and any high movement sport requires tight clothing that accomodates movement necessary for the sport to avoid chaffing without being restrictive.
Materials need to be of such a quality that they let air circulate and pull heat and sweat away from the body - to avoid overheating.
Runners need to take into account impact on joints depending on the surface they are running on.
They all have to take into account the weather and heat exposure - keeping themselves cool and free for movement, minimizing risk of injury or other problem that would have an affect on performance.
Pretty certain sand rubbing against my stomach would make the next dive sound more and more unappealing.
I remember before I started wearing a two-piece myself coming home from the beach and pulling off my one piece and sand would pour out all over the bathroom floor. And all I did was go swimming.
Anyway, I'm not going to condone what they're wearing because I'm not sure that's the only thing they could be wearing. I'm not gonna have an issue with it, either, because I don't know what else they've discussed or what's conducive to such a sport.
But I do want to know - what about Tennis players? Those cute little mini-skirts. They were SUCH a scandal not that long ago...
51. Ronnica said the following at 1:17 PM on Aug 13:
Even if it could be determined that 2-piece bathing suits were necessary in this sport (and I doubt it), they gain nothing by the skimpiness of the bathing suits. More cloth provides more support, not inhibits movement. No one is suggesting that that they play in a full-length skirts and button-up shirts.
Oh, and I was appalled that that athlete wanted the president to pat her bum. Umm, he's the president, and you're sticking out your butt at him?
52. Adam said the following at 1:22 PM on Aug 13:
Heather Ashley #5, Heidi #17, Bethany D. #43
I would be very interested in hearing your thought process behind not wanting your brothers to see women's volleyball. Is it based on observed reactions towards the suits? Is it a general level of embarrassment because they go beyond the line you've set for yourself as being modest? Is it a protection thing because you've been told that guys are more visually oriented?
Help a guy understand a woman's point of view on this.
53. Meredith said the following at 1:36 PM on Aug 13:
#44 - Steph - I agree with you comepletely about Michael Phelps' attire (or lack thereof). The one piece suits aren't all that bad in the men's swimming, even if they are a little tight. They certainly cover more than other outfits. BUT, when someone pulls down the one piece, then it's almost the same as a skimpy speedo.
54. Zusanne said the following at 2:16 PM on Aug 13:
Reason for a two-piece bathing suit: when the women need to move (jump up to block the ball, dive for the ball), their suit will go up as well. If it's in two pieces, the bottom part will stay where it belongs, not get pulled up with the top.
Not sure why the two pieces have to be so small or far apart, even for beach volleyball. Don't we have the same situation in other sports as well: figure skating, ballroom dancing, etc?
Even as a South Florida resident (many of the Europeans who vacation here wear Speedos without too much thought--and I saw people on the beach on cruises with more clothing on than I've seen people wearing at the local malls), I was more uncomfortable with the teeny little swimsuits on the diving pairs and with Phelps after the relays.
It wasn't too hard to change the channel (okay, I fast-forwarded,love TIVO).
chafing only has one "f"
55. EKB said the following at 2:28 PM on Aug 13:
Heidi, in my opinion your post #17 was offensive and completely lacking in Christian charity. Why would you call people "gross" and "gay" just based off of the way they sound in a post-event interview? Comments like yours could make vulnerable boys who are less stereotypically masculine question their sexuality. I think that was completely out of line, and a poor witness. I cannot imagine Jesus saying the things you said about them.
56. Marie said the following at 4:25 PM on Aug 13:
IMO, the tiny speedos the male divers wear are indecent, but DISGUSTING, and thus I don't even want to look when the camera zooms in. But those longer suits that the guys in the swim races wear... those are hard to look away from. I mean, have you seen how LOW the front goes?!?!? I was kind of relieved that this year the Americans have torso-covering swim suits and don't make me wonder cosntantly when the waist is going to slide a little too low...
57. Madison said the following at 5:46 PM on Aug 13:
I've done gymnastics for 15 years, and I can tell you why the beach volleyball players don't wear a one-piece. Wedgies. Having the material covering your butt be attached to the same material that covers your shoulders and back is not comfortable.
There is no cleavage in beachvolleyball, and I imagine it is much easier to play in swim suits. They aren't string bikinis, and I imagine they are specifically designed to enhance performance. I was surprised the men were wearing shirts.
Olympics are about sports (as much as they are tainted by other things) but in no way do athletes even think about looking sexually appealing. They wear athletic, performace clothing.
And mens diving. They can't wear swim trunks, obviously, and unless they want to wear a full piece (much like a woman's suit) speedos are their only choice. It's athletic wear.
I am a fan of modest, and a fan of sports, and don't have a problem with beachvolleyball or diving.
I suggest you all stop looking at how to find fault with their attire and enjoy the games.
58. Steph said the following at 6:50 PM on Aug 13:
tsc (#49):
You are right, I should not have used a swear word, I don't find that particular word offensive, but I should have tried my best not to be offensive to others, I apologize.
I was not being hypocritical by calling Michael Phelps' ATTIRE gross however: I was not referring to him as a person (which is what I was calling Heidi on), I was simply attempting to use the word in what I thought was a more appropriate way.
59. sumi r. said the following at 8:10 PM on Aug 13:
Wow, 58 posts on a single feed? Is that a record? Lol, I can't wait for this weekend's podcast!
60. Bertha said the following at 8:54 PM on Aug 13:
I simply enjoy watching the Olympics. I don't really pay attention to what they're wearing.
61. farmer Tom said the following at 9:13 PM on Aug 13:
#41
So obviously there was something shameful in them being naked in front of each other, once Sin entered the picture.
Sorry, they were not ashamed of being naked in front of each other.
They were ashamed of their nakedness before a Holy God.
Remember that according to Hebrews 13? "the marriage bed is undefiled" therefore nakedness between married couples is nothing to be ashamed of,
on the beach in front of millions on the other hand, one wishes that all of them would be a bit more modest in their attire,
but if you can focus on the performance rather than appearances, there really is no need to shut it off in my opinion
62. Saidah said the following at 9:36 PM on Aug 13:
um, first of all, have you seen your local high school's girls volleyball uniform? I went to a Christian high school AND a Baptist university and it was basically underwear and a particularly tight t-shirt. And frankly, they had NOTHING on the cheer squads at the above schools.... Frankly, it's a sport; who cares? People think gymnasts in leotards and shorts look "exposed" too. Whatever.
63. chaparral said the following at 9:40 PM on Aug 13:
Just a thought...God does not call the world to stop doing things that 'tempt' Christians. He says that he will give us the strength to overcome whatever temptation comes our way.
FYI...I will never cease to be amazed by the American male's inability to control his 'desire.' You realize that where I grew up in Europe people wear much less on the beach and nobody seems to even notice that much. What a person does or does not wear is very cultural. In the world of sports the female athletes are not thinking about looking sexy as they perform these sports. Most of the female athletes are not even wearing make-up or trying to fix their hair in an attractive way. They are focused on performing well athletically, winning the game and bringing home the gold. Believe it or not men…this is NOT about you. They wear what is best for their performance.
I am really tired of hearing Christian men complain about how women are dressed inappropriately…and this causes them to fall. Look away if you cannot control yourself. Even if a woman is naked in front of you...you should be a ‘good Christian gentlemen’ about it and LOOK away. Stop blaming other people for not being able to control yourself. I know that control is possible because I know MANY non-Christian men who practice it. As Christians aren’t we called to a higher standard?
Sorry this has been bothering me for a LONG time. I don't understand this side of the American Christian culture. It remains a mystery to me.
64. Leah said the following at 10:33 PM on Aug 13:
Heidi- divers can't wear the full body suits like swimmers because they significantly reduce flexibility.
They could, perhaps, wearing something like the gymnasts do, because that material is very thin and stretchy, not like the stuff the swimsuits are made of. However, I don't know how it would cope in water. So you see, there is a lot that has to go into the design of what athletes wear, particularly those who need extreme flexibility.
sumi r- that's nowhere NEAR a record!
65. Gayle said the following at 5:06 AM on Aug 14:
My goodness this one got alot of comments! My husband happened to mention to me that he had watched women's beach volleyball and found the outfits rather unattractive. He didn't think the girls looked very feminine! So apparently this wouldn't inspire all guys to be tempted.
I do believe that the outfits are dress code I remember a small controversy about it in 2004. Apparently back then some of the women weren't real happy with what they had to wear.
66. Kelly said the following at 8:03 AM on Aug 14:
Thank you whs (20) for posting the link to the official regulations for volleyball. I read the section on women's attire and am HORRIFIED.
Why in the world would men be allowed to wear shorts and women not?! A 7cm MAXIMUM band size on the bottoms? I find it awful that this exploitation is in the official rules.
67. Kit said the following at 8:44 AM on Aug 14:
Agree with Craig M.
While I understand the frustration, it seems like something not worth the energy to get worked up over. After all, the ancient Greeks used to hold them in the nude.
68. Joseph Abraham said the following at 9:10 AM on Aug 14:
Just another thought. Although we do live in a fallen world and culture its important to not always look for things that offend us.
People have this image of christians as always offended. Whats the point?
Even if we got the beach volleyball players to wear clothes what does it accomplish?
69. Dan Gill said the following at 9:11 AM on Aug 14:
Haven't you heard men's comments on beach volleyball. It's all about how hot the women look (and we're not talking temperature). It gets very graphic, very quickly. It's the same kind of comments you would hear at a skimpy bikini contest (go figure!) or a strip club. Of course it's about sex!
I understand the idea of chafing, but the men seem to manage with more clothing on.
I've always thought it was funny that women's indoor volleyball players wear tight shorts, while women's basketball players wear loose shorts that fall to their knees or below.
70. IMO said the following at 9:18 AM on Aug 14:
Hi farmer Tom (#61),
That's an interesting observation.
Why were "they were ashamed of their nakedness before a Holy God?"
PS As long as my husband isn't tempted by what he sees, I don't have a problem with it!
71. S K said the following at 9:27 AM on Aug 14:
I agree with Chaparral (#62). Modesty is very cultural (what you wear in Pakistan is different from what you wear in the Trobriand Islands ... and all are considered "modest" by their own cultural standards).
Actually -- and maybe this is just because I grew up in "Beachtown", California -- but when I saw the volleyball attire I was surprised that that was what all the controversy was about. They weren't skimpy at all -- just 2-piece swimsuits that covered them pretty well -- not bikinis or anything. That is "modest" compared to what we see on the beach everyday over hear in CA, and no one thinks anything of it. That's just what people -- including, *eh-em* myself sometimes -- wear at the beach.
Does that make it "ok"? Well, I think it all depends on the setting. If it's commonplace it often isn't perceived as immodest -- just like what was mentioned about the Europeans, who wear a lot less than we do on the beach and it's just considered beach-attire. For myself, I never dress immodestly walking around town, but the beach is the beach. You're there to splash around in the (where I live freezing cold) waves, and what you wear is going to be different than what you'd wear to, say, go shopping.
Just my opinion, as a life-long beach bum. ;-)
72. John said the following at 10:19 AM on Aug 14:
Comment #63.
It's both/and NOT either/or.
Men have to control themselves AND women should be conscience of not causing a brother not to stumble. (I'm of course talking about Christian men and women)
Our culture, USA, is quite individualistic. The mind set of most is, "it's my body and I'll do what I want with it, whatever I do that you don't like or offends you is your problem". Unfortunately, this is also the mind set of most in the church.
Instead, especially for Christians, the mind set should be, "what glorifies Christ and encourages my brothers and sisters."
We shouldn't be legalistic nor should we be blasé. But ultimately, are we trying to draw attention to ourselves or point others, saved or unsaved, in God's direction?
By the way, I'm simply stating the dress code in the bible found in 1 Timothy 2:9-10, 1 Peter 2:3-5. It is specifically addressing female dress, but can be applied to all.
One more thing, the reason it this is such a difficult area for men is because we are visual and far more "turned-on" by physicality. This is, generally, our greatest area of weakness.
That's why Jesus addressed men when he said he who looks at a woman lustfully has committed adultery in his heart. Not that women can't be guilty of this too; it's just that it is much more a men's issue.
As far as how to address the non-believing culture, that's another lengthy post for later.
73. Kelly said the following at 11:04 AM on Aug 14:
SK said: "but when I saw the volleyball attire I was surprised that that was what all the controversy was about. "
I think the controversy is more about the MOVEMENT they do in these outfits. I've seen several photos of women with unsightly wedgies... which might be all the more titillating for some.
If the material doesn't stay put when you're jumping around a court, then what's the point of it?
Also the fact that it's broadcast on television in close-up - it's much more 'in your face' than strolling down a beach is!
74. Rachael said the following at 11:41 AM on Aug 14:
comment 63 wrote:
"I am really tired of hearing Christian men complain about how women are dressed inappropriately…and this causes them to fall. Look away if you cannot control yourself."
-->I think somewhere (in comments on another post or/and in that modesty survey discussed some time back) there was the opinion in support of placing more responsibility on the man (though that could be extended to women if women are visually stumbling).
Even if people do their best to be modest, lust will not disappear...
If certain type clothing (or lack there-of) arouses lust, while it would be good for the viewer to be careful (like not watching certain things that may make them stumble), even if the person comes across this lust-inducing outfit against his or her will (like when out and about), this person should not think that they HAVE to stumble because they are in a tempting situation. Even if it doesn't feel like it, God has provided us a way out when we are tempted with ANY sort of temptation.
75. Trey Gregory said the following at 11:44 AM on Aug 14:
My four children and I were watching the men's volleyball (USA v. Argentina) - excellent athleticism, BTW. My 9-yo daughter said that they must be at the beach, because there were people "on the sidelines in bikinis."
I then started in, as did others, on the need to allow the players range of motion, etc...but stopped as my son pointed out that the men were modestly dressed. It turned into a discussion on immodest displays of oneself.
Thanks, I guess, Team USA; but I'd rather have the athletes be good role models for my children. Not everything that is permissible is a good idea. Fortunately, the swimmers are raising the bar - in more ways than one!
- Trey
76. chaparral said the following at 5:31 PM on Aug 14:
Comment #72.
FYI…I am not against people dressing modestly. I completely disagree with you reason why a person should do so. I am not disputing the scripture here.
First of all, I am no sure that I buy the whole not causing your brother to stumble argument. That argument seems to be used to give people control over others. Forget a culture focused on independence…ultimately ones relationship with God is just that. We are responsible to God and God alone. He is the Author and Finisher of our faith. People should not be focused on each other anyway. As Christians we should keep our eyes on God. I am bothered by this new Christian buzzword ‘community’ that seems to have replaced the work of the Holy Spirit to convict and deal with people.
I concede that men by and large are more stimulated visually than women. The problem I have is with the way this information is used to excuse Christian’s conformity to culture. My argument is that true modesty is an issue governed by morality. Morality is not cultural. What is true morality remains unchanged from one culture to another because it is based on God’s law. God’s law (morality) does not change because God does not change. What is or is not sexually suggestive or stimulating changes from culture to culture. As Christians we are called to live in the world, but not be a part of the world. I think we need to start thinking about how to live apart from the world in how we view the human body. When a Christian man looks at a professional athlete playing a sport on TV and cannot control himself, I wonder how he is so conformed to the culture of our world. He is making a sexual object of this women instead of seeing her as a creation of God who deserves respect. Not every man in every culture would find this body so stimulating that he could not control himself. The reaction is an outgrowth of conformity to cultural norms that dictate that the female breast and other body parts are merely sexual objects. It is not biological. I would suggest that we need to reevaluate how we teach young boys and men to act in our Christian American culture. We need to teach them how to respect women.
One more thing…the reason that I made the comment about the world was that this post what directed at the Olympics. We cannot expect the Olympians of the world to conform to some idea of modesty dictated by our cultural norms. Plus, this is NOT a Christian organization by any stretch of the imagination. The participants would not be expected to be sensitive to the idea of modesty anyway.
P.S. You mentioned 1 Peter 2:3-5…I think maybe you referenced the wrong passage. This has nothing to do with dress.
77. Leah said the following at 7:58 PM on Aug 14:
Thanks to whs and Kelly - I knew there were rules about that in some competitions (as I said in a previous comment), just couldn't remember if it was the Olympics too!
78. DannieA said the following at 8:02 PM on Aug 14:
dude...watersports/running/diving all wear things we don´t normally want to see on people. get over it and enjoy the sport itself...i´m totally not offended
79. Katie said the following at 8:21 PM on Aug 14:
my first thought when watching the womens volleyball tournament was "its not a real beach, why wear swimsuits?"
But thinking about it, it makes more sense for then to wear the tiny tops, it is important for these women to have complete range of motion and very little, um, bouncing, concidering the jumping and diving. Tight clothing keeps the muscles from 'flapping' so the muscles are more efficient and recover faster after each movement. for maximum tightnes and minimum movement restriction, of course the tops are tight and tiny. only fabric where its going to make a difference.
This is especially true for swimming, I grew up on swim teams, we always raced in suits two sizes too small, more fabric: more resistance, less support, quicker fatigue. as soon as they came out with jammers, ever guy who could afford a pair got them. they are not designed to be attractive, provocative, or repulsive, they are designed to perform. Even the womens suits this year are specially designed to be so tight around the chest as to totally flatten the chest, some even rip, they are so tight, I read one of the italian swimmers, I think it was, wears her training suit underneath to protect against an 'accident', they sacrifice their physical comfort and attractiveness for their sport. they do it because it works.
I agree somewhat with chapparal, by freaking out about temptation, men give it all the more power. does the secular athlete put more value on her performance or on the thoughts of a few men, who cant seem to control their lusts anyway? I grew up in a culture where temptation wasnt a big deal, personal integrety was stressed, but sin was not. not I find I, and others from a similar culture or upbringing as myself, have far less struggles with temptation and shame as our sisters and brothers who were raised evangelical christian. not that there isnt struggle and temptation, thats a given, but that it isnt torment.
I did get a chuckle about the comment on regular school volleyball uniforms. I played fieldhockey in highschool, the running joke on our team was that we were not allowed to wear visible shorts under our skirts, which had to be no longer than halfway to our knees. since we borrowed skirts from the off season cheerleaders, we had to roll up the waistbands to make them acceptable on the field, our uniforms didnt actually fit with school dress code! and the refs who most strickly enforced this? the older, white men, almost entirely. since the team was not majority white, we noticed they were stricter with the curvy and the white players, barring them from playing if they didnt show enough leg!
80. Gillian said the following at 11:54 PM on Aug 14:
I think the female athletes' attire disgracefully immodest.Why can't they wear a proper vest and shorts for athletics?
Then male gymnasts compete in modest clothing,so why don't the women too?
I remember watching a long race a few years back in which a woman clad in a T shirt and baggy shorts,beat her scantily clad opponents and looked far more dignified.
These dreadful outfits quite spoil the sport for me.
81. Jake said the following at 12:54 AM on Aug 15:
Its understandable for the women to wear the bikini sportswear for better athletic performance, but for those comments people said trying to compare the old greek olympics where they were nude way back in the 700 B.C. era with today, yea...that doesn't work people. It is 2008. In case you didn't know, lust is the Number 1 problem for men. Yes, men are more visually stimulated than women,
And for Christian men where Satan knows where to tempt us, the battle is even harder. Yes, you're right, we do need to turn our eyes away, we have to do everything in our power to keep ourselves from thinking impure thoughts, God said, "there is to be not even a hint of sexual immorality in you.." And if that means not watching the women's beach volleyball tournaments because there might be even just a little temptation or even just a little impure thought, then so be it. For guys, you can't watch that and not notice it, yes you can focus on their performance and the match and all that, but IT'S
still there and you see it, you can't say you don't.
Our culture tells us to stop fussing over it, chill out and accept it, its normal, everyone does it, why do men even think about that just focus on the match and perforance...all that. NO!! This is our sin nature. This is man's fallen state! Men will always have this problem and temptation as long as we live! Yes we are fighting to treat women respectfully and our sisters in Christ with honor yes we have to strive to be pure and think pure, but when it comes to the twenty first century modesty is on the bottom of the list. Yes the men have to do their job and fight to be pure, but women have to understand our state, especially our christian sisters, and help us to by standing along side us and doing their best to help us men, not getting on us for it.
Look at all the pastors, all godly men, very godly who have fallen into this temptation. The battle will never be over until Christ comes again. But you're right, that doesn't mean we don't stop fighting and striving with all our might to conquer this sin in our lives, but also, it will always be there, so pray for us, lust is the easiest trap and temptation for men, and our society and culture can easily intensify that temptation especially today. The women may play volleyball better and profit more in their bikini sportswear, but the men who watch them play don't and even if we don't think about it at all in the first 5-10 minutes, it's still there and you will notice. Women should, and especially our Christian sisters should be encouraging us to be hard and strict when it comes to modesty, not getting on us about being strict and telling us to get over it.
82. Brad said the following at 4:47 AM on Aug 15:
Wow... Didn't realize this was a religious blog until I clicked the link from another site referencing the lack of clergy and other spiritual services offered in Beijing...The women beach volleyball players wear what they wear to allow freedom of movement and to reduce the amount of sand trapped by clothes(this is from the mouths of Mmms. Walsh and May-Treanor)...As for the men, If they were shirtless and wearing shorts, their country and numbers would be where? either on the front(drawing complaints that you're being enticed to look at their"naughty" parts) or on the back(again drawing complaints).
83. IMO said the following at 8:31 AM on Aug 15:
DannieA,
I don't know why have to be rude. Some people are offended. Some are not. No need to put down those who are. [Not sure if "dude" was in reference to a male or female but] Would you make that same comment to the elder of your church? or your friend's father?
I've probably been at fault for coming off rude as well at times and what has been helping me is to picture myself saying the same thing I would post to somebody I respected.
84. David Williams said the following at 9:33 AM on Aug 15:
Oh, for pete's sake! I watched some of the girl's vollyball. Sure they're in two piece suits. Who cares? It's not like linsey lohan or any other well-endowed female is out there puttin' on a free show, if you know what I mean. Plus, most of the girls aren't that attractive, in my opinion.
85. DannieA said the following at 11:22 AM on Aug 15:
IMO....I wasn´t being rude, I was spouting out the the truth....it´s more about the sport than anything else, so I really am perplexed about the problem.
and I´m very tight with my pastors and elders so yeah I would respond to them that way as well...but not at another church.
86. John said the following at 11:27 AM on Aug 15:
chaparral,
Sorry, should have said 1 Peter 3:2-5.
You're obviously a girl and have no clue what men go through.
I don't say that to be mean, but it is clear that if you had even an inkling, you'd have a much different perspective.
We are VERY, VERY, VERY visual AND sexual.
It is difficult for a woman to understand that, as you've shown in your posts.
Even married women, who deal with a man 24/7 can't understand how we could literally have sex every 10 minutes if she allowed it.
Try to wrap your mind around that for a minute.
We could be sick, dying of thirst/starvation, dirty, whatever, and if a woman (hopefully wife) offered, we'd accept instantly!
So saying things like, "just turn away" or "control yourself" is a bit like telling an alcoholic to just use self control. If it were that easy, it wouldn't be a problem.
Your reasoning about "just focus on God not others" is unrealistic. We do not live in isolation.
Christian women have adopted American culture in dress.
Christian men are simply functioning as men.
Women's bodies are meant to be appealing to us, but our wife's body, not someone else’s.
Again, I'm focusing here on the church, not Olympic athletes.
To the greater culture, modesty is prudish and confining. They don't want to be modest; they want to do their thing. It's their "right".
Sadly, that's the mindset of too many Christian women when it comes to dress. That being part of a larger mindset that you express, which is unbiblical, that "I'm an individual and what I do is between me and God."
Totally not true.
87. John said the following at 11:29 AM on Aug 15:
David,
Obviously, several people DO care.
Also, obviously, you haven't been watching the brazilian or cuban players.
88. Jo said the following at 12:25 PM on Aug 15:
I just read in my local newspaper that a car washing firm have started a promotion whereby men can pay to have their cars washed by a team of young women in bikinis, while they sit in their cars and watch. The firm even say that the girls aren't 'trained professionals' like their other car washers, so the promotion is really more about the men being able to watch the girls 'getting soapy'.
And we're worried about serious athletes wearing tight clothing?
89. Sean said the following at 12:48 PM on Aug 15:
I have to say, Motte, you are usually spot on with your commentary, but this is completely ridiculous. I can understand personally not wanting to watch it, but it's part of the sport, so there's no sense in criticizing the uniforms. I think it's almost to the borderline of "religious freedom" that was talked about in the podcast. They're not deliberately trying to attract anyone, they're just wearing the uniform typical of the sport. Making any judgment about whether they're being too promiscuous or not is out of control.
90. BDB said the following at 12:52 PM on Aug 15:
John (#86) wrote:
>>We are VERY, VERY, VERY visual AND sexual.<<
Um...since no one else is speaking up, let me just say that there's a continuum here, like everything else. In theory, medical professionals get so used to taking a clinical view of the body that they think in clinical terms. I think that the same thing happens with those of us who've spent a lot of time around athletes. After a while you realize how much work it is to get to that level of performance, and you just see the athletic performance.
Granted, athletic people can look stunning when they want to. But they're usually not doing that during a match. If a guy really turns into a puddle of drool, he probably doesn't understand the sport.
91. Heather Ashley said the following at 1:17 PM on Aug 15:
Adam #52
Great questions, I apologize for just now seeing it.
I think it is embarrassing. I never walk around the house in my underwear (which practically the attire of the women's volleyball team). Plus not only as a brother of blood, he is my brother in Christ and I would not want him cause him to stumble because of what I choose to watch. If I watch a show wear the women are scantily clad I feel like I am lowering my standards, and saying it's okay to watch people walk around like this, but not do it. When I used to watch a lot of TV I found myself lowering my standards of modesty, based on the outfits of women portrayed. I am blessed to have a wonderful friendship with my little (okay not so little anymore, but he is to me) brother and I know that he looks up to me in how I dress and carry myself. He see me as an example and has said so many times, he also has said that he wants his future wife to have many of the qualities he sees in me. I would hate for his view of me to be altered in any way from a TV show I watch or from a different outfit I wear.
I hope that helps you understand atleast one woman's perspective a bit better.
92. Jo said the following at 1:20 PM on Aug 15:
"I think that the same thing happens with those of us who've spent a lot of time around athletes."
Yeah I think that's probably true. It's very easy to just get used to things in certain situations. My job involves helping disabled people with personal care, and consequently I've seen more naked men - and women for that matter - than many Christians will *ever* see. After about the first week it didn't phase me in the slightest.
If however I saw a naked man running down the street, I'd be as shocked as the next girl. It's all about context.
93. Christina (in green) said the following at 2:40 PM on Aug 15:
You know, when I first saw this blog, I was a little dismissive because I had glimpsed a shot of the volleyball team briefly and didn't think much of it.
Probably because their chests are well covered and they're wearing...Sports Bras.
Which, spending an hour in the gym a day, I tend to see a lot of women running around in...Sports Bras.
So, wasn't certain what the problem was.
And then, today, I'm walking downstairs and they have a volleyball match on and they just come back from commercials and...the camera isn't zooming in on the volleyball team, they're zooming in on the CHEER LEADERS.
THAT appalled me. Because watching a bunch of girls in sports bras and a bathing suit bottom focusing on their game play is entirely different than watching a bunch of girls in tube top bikinis shaking their rears in the camera in a sensual way.
The worst thing that crossed my mind when watching the players was "I wonder how they got their legs and abs so well toned..."
My boyfriend had to start asking me questions about my day to get me to drag my eyes away from the TV and get me to think about something that didn't give me a look like I'd just had a mouthful of rotten milk.
John, I agree that women need to take SOME responsibility for their appearance when it comes to guys, but guys have their responsibilities in this, too.
Don't expect me to go running around in a black bag and veil because the sight of my golden blonde hair, pale white skin, and sensuous curves turns you on when I wear a pair of well-fitting jeans (not too tight) and a decent blouse (not too low).
As for bathing suits, get a grip. You see more SKIN, but that's it. You get the same thing in a one piece - there is nothing left to the imagination concerning the shape of the person in the bathing suit. No matter what, the clothing that the female team is gonna be wearing is gonna be TIGHT. Why? Because girls have a lot more to hold down in certain areas then men do.
94. Christina (in green) said the following at 2:42 PM on Aug 15:
To add to my last comment, guys didn't need Angelina Jolie in a two piece bathing suit to paster her up on their wall when wearing a full body diving suit.
Two piece or one piece isn't gonna make much a difference.
95. David Williams said the following at 3:05 PM on Aug 15:
Plus, Christina, some girls are so nice to look at, they could be wearing a parka, and still get me wondering!
96. Sarah P. said the following at 3:44 PM on Aug 15:
John (#86) wrote: We could be sick, dying of thirst/starvation, dirty, whatever, and if a woman (hopefully wife) offered, we'd accept instantly!
So saying things like, "just turn away" or "control yourself" is a bit like telling an alcoholic to just use self control. If it were that easy, it wouldn't be a problem.
...Hmm. This sounds a little extreme to me. I have four brothers, and I would trust any one of them much, much further than this with the women they meet, no matter waht.
There are alcoholics, and then there are people who drink alcohol. May I suggest that men can also choose to approach the issue of sex with different mindsets? I am certainly not a man, but I have to say that your above statements are akin to me going around letting myself think that all men who give me a friendly smile are in love with me. Both sexes are fully capable of learning mental and spiritual disciplines - and, most of all, learning to love others better in ways that safeguard from temptation.
97. farmer Tom said the following at 4:59 PM on Aug 15:
letting myself think that all men who give me a friendly smile are in love with me.
Young lady you are confusing ,
lust,
lust
–noun
1. intense sexual desire or appetite.
2. uncontrolled or illicit sexual desire or appetite; lecherousness.
3. a passionate or overmastering desire or craving (usually fol. by for): a lust for power.
4. ardent enthusiasm; zest; relish: an enviable lust for life.
5. Obsolete.
a. pleasure or delight.
b. desire; inclination; wish.
–verb (used without object)
6. to have intense sexual desire.
7. to have a yearning or desire; have a strong or excessive craving (often fol. by for or after).
with another l word which has been used by the unGodly in a manner incongruent with the original meaning.
love is a misused and abused word, are you talking about love or are you talking about
charity,
charity
1137, "benevolence for the poor," from O.Fr. charite, from L. caritas (acc. caritatem) "costliness, esteem, affection" (in Vulgate often used as translation of Gk. agape "love" -- especially Christian love of fellow man -- perhaps to avoid the sexual suggestion of L. amor), from carus "dear, valued," from PIE *karo-, from base *ka- "to like, desire" (see whore). Vulgate also sometimes translated agape by L. dilectio, n. of action from diligere "to esteem highly, to love."
It is very possible for members of the male population to entertain lustful thoughts after a woman, simply by seeing her. Those thoughts have nothing to do with love and your use of the term in that context is an abuse of the language.
Their lustful thoughts are wrong because they are treating you as an object. Do not validate those sinful thoughts by calling them love.
98. John said the following at 7:36 PM on Aug 15:
Sara,
You, like the other poster, are clueless about men's minds.
If you wanna be like the other poster and perpetuate the "it's his problem" nonsense, so be it.
It's unchristian, selfish attitudes like that that are far too prevalent in today's American church.
I'm reminded why I don't waste my time on this blog anymore.
Too often the, "well what about", "and not always", "that's his problem", and "well I personally..."
How about: Do not cause anyone to stumble, whether Jews, Greeks or the church of God-- even as I try to please everybody in every way. For I am not seeking my own good but the good of many, so that they may be saved.
Everything is permissible for me"--but not everything is beneficial. "Everything is permissible for me"--but I will not be mastered by anything.
How about stopping wanting our way and instead wanting God's way.
How about asking Him, "Should I wear this? Will it cause one of my brothers to stumble? Will it bring focus onto me or toward God? What is my purpose in wearing this?"
But obviously nobody here wants to do that. You just want to do what you want to do.
"I'll just keep arguing on the internet for my way. I'm not concerned about what God says."
So, ladies, continue to dress like the culture. Continue to allow culture to shape you, instead of His word. You obviously far more content that way.
99. John said the following at 7:41 PM on Aug 15:
Christina,
I'm just stating what God says, get a grip!
You bring up the bigger question that I wasn't even going to address, but since you brought it up...
Should women be wearing this attire to begin with?
And, should women be playing a sport wearing this attire?
From a Christian stand point, the answer is no.
From a worldly stand point, the answer is apparently, and unfortunately from some in the church, why not?
What was it that they did immediately after the first sin?
100. chaparral said the following at 8:42 PM on Aug 15:
John,
WOW! Something I said obviously touched a nerve…lol! Ok, so I couldn’t disagree with you more about almost everything that you said. I thought this blog was safe, but I am beginning to wonder. I found your response a bit unsettling. Several things in your comments are disconcerting not to mention physically impossible…lol! When you have to resort to describing male libido by comparing it to an addiction such as alcoholism…you may have an addiction problem. FYI…the posts were a collaborative effort of two people, one from each gender.
IF “Christian women have adopted American culture in dress” (which I know to be false) it is because American missionaries have exported the culture instead of the gospel to the world. I say this with a profound respect, understanding and love for missions and missionaries. I remind you that the US is NOT the only country that sends out missionaries. Many nations have a storied tradition of missions. Also, I continue to make the point that Christian men the world around do not share your ‘struggle’ in the same way. So, part of this is a culture issue here in the US (where we are creating our own ‘struggles’). We teach young Christian American boys that they have to struggle with this, that it is biological… We refuse to accept spiritual victory over this ONE issue. We refuse to accept the POWER of God to keep us from living in compliance with our sinful nature. God promised a way out ALWAYS. (That way out is not women changing how they dress. It is not the fault of a women that a man cannot control his libido.)
I think you are misjudging culture if you think that people do not want to be modest. Not every non-Christian is promiscuous and willingly immodest. I think that average women dressed more to impress her friends and feel good about herself than anything else. The average women is not thinking about how many men she can cause to think about her sexually when she gets dressed in the morning. CREEPY!! Thank God many men would not disrespect and belittle her by making her only a sexual object!