Who Taught You to Drive!?
by Tom Neven on 07/10/2008 at 12:01 PM
The driver in front of me clearly didn’t know what he was doing. He wandered across one lane, hesitated as if to turn and then continued straight across the intersection and toddled along about 15 mph below the speed limit.
I was trapped behind him, unable to pass in the busy traffic. Finally I pounded my hand on the steering wheel in frustration and said through gritted teeth, “Don’t drive any particular speed!”
The small voice of my son, Joshua, came from the back seat of the Jeep. “Is he an idiot, Dad?”
The dagger in my heart was ice cold. There’s only one place he learned that.
The late George Carlin once asked, “Have you ever noticed how everyone who drives slower than you is an idiot, and everyone who drives faster than you is a maniac?” Yeah, I’ve noticed. I’m usually a pretty easygoing guy -- until I get behind the wheel of a car. Then I become like The Incredible Hulk. (Okay, my muscles aren’t that big, and I don’t turn green, but you get the picture.) You wouldn’t like me when I’m angry.
The problem is, it doesn’t take much to make me angry when I’m driving. Don’t use your turn signal? “Hey, I’m not a mind-reader, you know!” Pull out in front of me? “What, am I invisible or something!?” Don’t floor it the micro-second the light turns green? "Hey, it's the only shade of green they've got!"
I am genuinely perplexed at my behavior -- honest. I try self-discipline, but then some idi -- sorry -- fellow motorist cuts in front of me, and out comes the monster.
The apostle Paul commands us in Romans 12:16-18: “Live in harmony with one another. . . . Do not repay anyone evil for evil. Be careful to do what is right in the eyes of everybody. If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone.” I clearly don’t follow that command when I blow past a guy at Warp 9 --after giving him a dirty look for daring to drive the speed limit.
I’m not as bad as I used to be, although I take no credit for self-discipline. One can’t help but become mellower with age. (Actually, it's not mellowness. The truth is that it takes too much energy to get mad.) And I’ve never forgotten a bumper sticker I once saw in Los Angeles: “Keep Honking. I’m Reloading.” On today’s highways, there may be consequences more dire than an obscene gesture.
Aggressive driving is by far not my only weakness, but it is the most public, and there are times I’ve mouthed off in front of family or friends and then stewed for hours afterwards at my loss of self-control, compounding the original flash of anger.
How about you? Any idiot drivers out there? Maniacs? Or simply humans?
1. Cathy S said the following at 12:23 PM on Jul 10:
It is so encouraging to know that there are many drivers out there who get angry. Sometimes I get frustrated when I am driving, but I am sure people get mad at me sometimes too. One thing I've noticed having driven with many people is that men tend to get more angry more often than women. At first, I thought my fiance was strange, but I began to notice that lots of guys seem to have a problem when driving even if otherwise they are relatively calm. Why is that?
2. Matt from DC said the following at 12:36 PM on Jul 10:
I'm one of the crazies that drive around doing the speed limit and lets people merge in front of him. Once I read Romans 13:1-7 I couldn't help but ask; "What do I owe the civil authorities and my fellow drivers when I'm on the road?" I didn't like the answer, but I've lived it out to the best of my ability since then.
Romans 13:1-7
"1 Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. 4For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience.
6This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God's servants, who give their full time to governing. 7Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor."
Ask God to do in you what you cannot do yourself. I'm glad Christianity isn't white knuckled grit and determination. Some of it is, but we have the Spirit and He is powerful.
3. Katherine said the following at 1:54 PM on Jul 10:
One of my New Testament professors once quipped that the last part of the body to be sanctified will be the right foot. :-)
4. Brian K said the following at 2:35 PM on Jul 10:
Tom:
Glad you didn't finish the rest of the Carlin tirade. I think FotF might have, uh, not appreciated it ;-).
I, too, found myself getting angry for the exact same things. Then things changed. See Matt's (#2) comment for me, personally. Oh, and the same tiny voice from the back you heard (Tom) didn't hurt either.
Funny comment, K (#3).
5. Cassandra Marie said the following at 2:42 PM on Jul 10:
I do believe there are a few "idiots" or "maniacs" out there who drive with no regard for others, or perhaps just no thought. Thats true of any situation, driving included. There are also those who perhaps have any number of excuses (late, lost, dealing with WWIII in the backseat, etc). For everyone's sake, we still wish they'd drive perfectly anyhow, but if you think about it, I'm sure we know how it feels.
I want to bring up something I'm not sure everyone takes into account when they rage at the "idiot" drivers around them: Not everyone aspires to driving, but if you live in most parts of the USA, you have to. I am keenly aware of this because I am nearly 22, and I still don't have my license. For years, I was so terrified of driving I'd literally have panic attacks in the drivers seat. To be honest, at times, it was the thought that other drivers would be angry at me that caused them too. I am getting close to the point where I could possible convince the DMV I am a capable driver, but I in no way feel capable. I HATE driving, and no, I'm not very good at it. I don't think thats going to change. But if I want to work anywhere besides the corner McDonalds (and then things like doctors and dentists appointments, needs beyond groceries, attending church) I have no choice. I've tried the bus systems, and they are very limited at best. I have to drive, and thats just how it is.
So please, when you are yelling at the "idiot" in front of you, remember that some people may still be learning to drive (and in some areas, like southern california, there are no empty back roads to practice on) and some people are simply not as gifted as you. If you are truly a better driver, take it as a blessing, because not everyone is gifted with an aptitude for it.
6. k.k. said the following at 2:50 PM on Jul 10:
I can definitely relate and I've been confronted by my sisters in Christ about my attitude at times. I drive a school bus for a living, but I'm a bit calmer when driving a bus than in my car. It's definitely been prayer that helps me to be calm and overlook the faults of others.
7. Elizabeth said the following at 3:30 PM on Jul 10:
I'm also one that other drivers tend to get angry at. Like Cassandra Marie, I just don't feel very comfortable driving. So, I drive five or ten mph under the speed limit and hesitate at lights, and people honk at me. It's kind of scary, and the distraction doesn't help, either. I have a license and am getting better, but I don't drive a lot of the time because it just doesn't seem worth it. And I worry about what will happen when I get out of school and can't just stay on campus all the time. It's good to know I'm not the only one that hates driving, though.
8. Kat said the following at 3:40 PM on Jul 10:
Yeah, I definetely feel that way, especially when they are much older and really slow (to a dangerous extent...) But I have called the cops on one person who was dangerously driving, swerving and being stupid on the road... is that bad?? My thought is, I am doing my best to keep a (drunk or high) bad driver off the roads.
9. ptschett said the following at 3:55 PM on Jul 10:
When I'm on my motorcycle I just assume the other drivers are out to get me. I usually have some kind of exit strategy and either I implement it or I'm pleasantly surprised when I don't have to. :)
The one thing that still gets my goat are the people in my small town that will dart out in front of you (rather than wait 10 seconds to get into the 1/2 mile gap behind you) in order to go 15 mph then come to a near stop and turn left a block later.
10. Tom Neven said the following at 3:57 PM on Jul 10:
Oh, and how could I have forgotten to include that great news item from the Department of Transportation?
11. Don said the following at 4:19 PM on Jul 10:
I've been on both sides of this proble. I've gotten mad at people, but I've done some things that have made other people mad at me. I tend to get angry on my own, but less so when I have other people in the car.
12. brx said the following at 4:37 PM on Jul 10:
Funny, just this morning I heard Chip Ingram on the radio talking about how he spent two years practicing slowing down. He realized he was rushing life by trying to pack so much into each day and running every appointment back-to-back. So, he decided to purposely do things like drive in the slow lane and get in the longest line at the grocery store.
I didn't hear the rest of it (had to head back to work) but I think he's got a good point about learning to slow down.
Grace & peace
13. Julia H said the following at 5:06 PM on Jul 10:
Haha #9! For a second I read, "The one thing that still gets me is the goat in my small town that will dart out in front of you (rather than wait 10 seconds to get into the 1/2 mile gap behind you) in order to go 15 mph then come to a near stop and turn left a block later."
Speedreading/skimming for the lose.
14. Leah said the following at 6:27 PM on Jul 10:
I'm glad I'm not the only one out there with an aversion to driving :P I'm 20 and a half and haven't got my licence yet (in fact, my Learners permit recently expired- I'll have to go get a new one!) I've also been graduated from uni for 6 months. I haven't been working much (planning a wedding!) and since I got married I've basically been looking after the house and getting it set up etc. Recently I got a casual job at uni, where my husband works, so we go to work together every day. It's good though, because driving only one car saves heaps on fuel. However it means when he's not home and I am I either have no transportation or have to catch the bus (our bus system is reasonable).
When it comes to drivers, I think it's acceptable for Learners to not know what they're doing, but they should be wearing an L plate (which is law in Australia). I don't know if that's the norm in the US. When it comes to people who have their licence, I understand some people wanting to err on the side of caution, but anything 10km/hr or more below the speed limit on two-lane roads is dangerous more than anything else. ESPECIALLY on highways and motorways when the limit is 100 or 110km/hr. Doing 80 or 90km/hr (in places people can't overtake) is frankly dangerous.
That said, of course other drivers shouldn't get aggressive towards inconvenient drivers. My husband doesn't show other drivers aggression, but he'll get frustrated and talk to other cars from the driver's seat. Sometimes I will sympathise (eg. the person doing 80km/hr on the 100km/hr motorway without anywhere to overtake, or the person who doesn't give way on the round-about when he has right of way (and forces him to hit the breaks)), but then there are times I'll chide him too (eg. when he berates the person who doesn't move into a new lane as soon as it starts). Most of the time he's pretty good though and only berates people in jest (eg. at a red light- "Hmm, a Mazda 6 hey, you'd better be straight off at this light" *light turns green* "Aww, c'mon, I was at least a whole half a second off the line before you!")
15. farmer Tom said the following at 8:04 PM on Jul 10:
Since I love to play the contrarian, I have to take issue with the premis of this post.
First, I'm 44 years old and I've been driving on the public highways since I was ten. Farm equipment, pickups etc. I drive a semi-tractor trailer hauling corn and beans regularly. I am a superb driver. I would love to race cars or drive in a truck driver rodeo.
I put my talents behind the wheel up against anybody anywhere anytime. And heres a news flash.
Some of the drivers on the road are unmitigated, unadulterated, genuine IDIOTS. Just last week I almost killed a guy, because he was driving down a state highway, a two lane road at the grand speed of 35 miles per hour, I came over a hill in my 18 wheeler at 60 miles an hour, and literally had to lock up the brakes to keep from rear ending the guy. See the laws of physics say that when you are going 60 miles an hour, an object in motion tends to remain in motion unless acted upon by an equal or greater force. So I burned up my brakes trying not to kill some ignorant driver who was a danger to himself and to me because he's an IDIOT.
So when some fool endangers my life and property because he's an IDIOT I have every right to complain.
Scripture tells us to Love our neighbor as ourself. I have no desire to run over anybody with an 18 wheeler. But if your so stupid you won't get out of the way, I've got to assume that eliminating you from the gene pool would be a favor to future generations of IDIOTS sired by this IDIOT. I love my neighbor and I don't want him to have more little IDIOTS.
I also take exception to Matt's misuse of Romans 13. I do not for a second believe that stupid traffic laws written my stupid bureaucrats has anything to do with the proper role of government. Too many traffic laws are written to protect IDIOTS who are disobedient to Scripture when they fail to treat others on the road as though they were their neighbor. If you're intentionally cutting people off in traffic, you are endangering yourself and others, you should be punished. But if your driving at the speed of the traffic around you, paying attention to where you are and who is around you. The government has no business telling you how long it should take you to get from point A to point B.
God created time. It is irreplaceable, once gone one can never get it back. Any attempt to regulate my time by telling me that I'm required to drive at a certain speed is a misuse of my time. Speed limits are a tax on time.
I do not believe that Biblical role of government includes taxing time. Rather I believe in personal responsibility. I am accountable to the Creator for my time and for my neighbor. If I endanger the life of my neighbor with my speed, I will pay in God's court. If I waste time, I will pay in God's court.
16. Marc said the following at 8:05 PM on Jul 10:
There is a very dangerous notion we Americans (Christians included) have and, unfortunately, people have paid for it with their lives. That notion goes as follows...
I'm the good driver. It's everyone else who has the problem.
17. cait said the following at 8:18 PM on Jul 10:
I am one of the most relaxed drivers, I let people in even when I'm running late, I sort of think maybe when I do the right thing even in a situation where i don't have time to care then God will bless me with green lights... it doesn't always work but i feel better for being kind anyways. Very rarely do I get frustrated. I think it comes down to my lack of competitiveness and also my refusal to waste all that energy on something that is mostly out of my control. I don't know what has made me like this, but when I hear other people or read something like this I am very glad of it. I often have to tell myself off for driving 5-10mph under the speed limit because i realise that although i may be an under-assertive driver, they might not be!
18. khalil said the following at 8:45 PM on Jul 10:
I have to second comment #14 and thank Leah for her statements.
I do tend to drive on the faster side, but what really bothers me are drivers that are overly cautious, driving way below the speed limit, or those that yield at stop signs or stop and yield signs. The stop/yield issue seems more common at ramps along the highway. The majority of accidents I have seen in my city are staged when people stop and fail to merge properly into traffic. While I can understand and empathize with those who dislike driving and aren't comfortable with it (I hate driving in DC and Atlanta esp.) if you are going to hesitate and poke along you're endangering yourself and putting others at risk.
Oh...and if you have any kind of Christian symbol on your car, please drive and behave responsibly...please :) Last time I was driving to Atlanta a Hummer pulled up behind me, driving fast and aggressive (the common speed for everyone on the road at that time seemed to be around 80mph. I was passing a tractor trailer and in the left lane (I was in a rental compact car and really wanted to get around the rig as my vision was limited by it). The guy in the Hummer was impatient and getting rather close to my vehicle, trying to intimidate me. All sorts of hand gestures were coming from that car, most of them seemed to be saying speed up (hey...80mph is quite fast...deal with it buddy!). Once I passed the rig and pulled into the right lane the Hummer passed me and the passenger flipped me the bird. The last thing I saw of that car was the fish symbol on the back. What a testimony, a sad one, but still a testimony.
19. Lissa said the following at 8:57 PM on Jul 10:
At 16, I've only been driving for a year, and am hoping to get my real license soon, but I absolutely love driving!!!I do most of the driving when with my mom and brother. Although there are certainly annoying, dangerous people out there, I try to use them as a reminder not to judge others unjustly. For me, it's easy to think of the driver and car as one entity, one that should be following the rules, but we need to remember that other drivers are people too. So, as I slam on the brakes or swerve out of someone's way, I try to make myself think of all the reasons for their behavior... maybe they just heard bad news over the phone, or were upset, or late etc. It's not excusing their behavior,it's simply humanizing them and making it easier to avoid reacting badly.
20. Rachael said the following at 9:32 PM on Jul 10:
Well, I've been in several car incidents...one time my sister came up with a crazy number of how many car accidents I've been in, but she wasn't in all of them, and they might not all "count", and stuff may have happened after she came up with that outrageous number, so, I don't know...
Fortunately no one was ever injured in any of the incidents.
Once - fell asleep.
Moral of story: Don't let yourself relax in a sleepy way.
Once -- got stuck between a truck and a curb at a gas station.
Moral: Don't attempt to squeeze by when there's no room.
Once -- ran into a car on the way when in a rush.
Moral: don't always be hesitant to go through an insurance company -- the driver you hit may not have been supposed to be on the road anyway. Look before you turn or change lanes or something? Don't let hurry skew rationality.
2-3 (+?) times -- bumped into the car(one of which was a friend) in front of me -
Moral: Even if there's no mark, bumper cars should be saved for the carnivals(though I heard that in DC they actually drive into cars when getting in or out of parallel parking spots!?)...
Once -- bashed a light on a car I was driving in a parking lot. Think the other vehicle was undamaged.
Moral: be careful in parking situations. (When parallel parking, how do we know how close we can go to another car?? Note to future car manufacturers: please make cars where you can see how close (through the windshield) you are to other cars)...
Anyway, anyway...
21. Tom Neven said the following at 9:34 PM on Jul 10:
Farmer Tom (#15)
Help me to understand something. Above you write, "I do not for a second believe that stupid traffic laws written my stupid bureaucrats has anything to do with the proper role of government. ... The government has no business telling you how long it should take you to get from point A to point B."
But I read in Romans 13:1-2,
Last time I checked, even properly authorized bureaucrats are "governing authorities," so why do you disobey them? You try to rationalize it away by saying,
But I see nothing in Romans saying that we are to obey laws only if we agree with them or if they are convenient to particular cultural circumstances.
This is especially puzzling in light of what you wrote here in comment #70:
You were quite adamant in saying that we should not try to rationalize away clear Scriptural commands based on personal feelings or cultural mores when it comes to ordaining women. Yet here you are, trying to rationalize away the clear Scriptural commands to obey the governing authorities because you think bureaucrats are -- how did you say it? -- stupid.
Please help me reconcile these two clearly different approaches to Scripture.
Seems to me sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.
22. BDB said the following at 9:47 PM on Jul 10:
I remember a political cartoon of a freeway with three signs:
Left Lane: Cars going faster than you are.
Middle Lane: Cars going slower than you are.
Right Lane: Huge, lumbering trucks.
For those who are nervous drivers: take heart. You will get better with experience, try to drive when you can. I barely got my license the first time (with an 83 - passing was 80). But within a few years, I did a driver test in a 24-passenger bus an got a 97.
It IS fun driving a 12-foot-tall bus. It was fiberglass, but even the big SUVs would look at me, look UP, and then get out of the way...
It was a lot like one time when I was riding on the top level of someone's 33-foot boat. The little speed boats would look at us, look UP, and get out of our way...
23. ptschett said the following at 11:04 PM on Jul 10:
http://www.boundlessline.org/2008/07/who-taught-yo-1.html#comment-121854804>Julia H, ROFL!
http://www.boundlessline.org/2008/07/who-taught-yo-1.html#comment-121862392>Leah,
In the US the only warning you usually get is that cars being used for a driving class tend to have yellow "student driver" labels. Family owned cars don't have to be marked and some students (like me) rely entirely on family instruction. (It helped that I was already driving farm tractors when I was 12...)
24. Lukas said the following at 1:53 AM on Jul 11:
farmer Tom #15
"I've got to assume that eliminating you from the gene pool would be a favor to future generations of IDIOTS sired by this IDIOT. I love my neighbor and I don't want him to have more little IDIOTS."
That sounds downright Darwinian of you ;)
25. Bork Blatt said the following at 6:50 AM on Jul 11:
I also wondered why I behave like this on the road, and had been praying about it for a long time, when God finally revealed the answer to me - an answer I didn't like.
I love being self-righteous. It's so easy to find fault with someone else on the road, because they're so *obviously* wrong and I drive so much better and more conservatively. Adding to the problem is my tendency to bottle up anger and frustrations over situations out of my control, and then unleash this fury at some minor infraction by a stranger.
The feeling of being isolated inside the protective cocoon of the car makes it easier to say / shout things you would never dare to say to this person face to face.
I wish that receiving this revelation was the end of the problem for me, although after much reflection and repentance, I am improving - at least I am catching myself doing this and repenting.
I hope this confessional helps others to see what drives them (pun intended) to this behaviour!
God's grace to you.
26. Brian K said the following at 6:59 AM on Jul 11:
Oh, just a personal note. I began to rigidly force myself to slow down (I use cruise control a LOT since I live in a slightly more wide-open area)/obey traffic laws very closely. I noticed two things. First, my gas mileage improved (by about 20% no less!) and second, I feel far more calm when I arrive. The former is simple IC engine physics. The latter, I think, is that as I am driving, I don't worry about being pulled over or needing to get in front of that next person. So, while I may agree with the ridiculous bureaucrats thought process in #15, there is sometimes an unseen benefit in some of the perceived madness. I like to think of this as God making all things work for good (ha ha). Just one person's take.
27. B. Minich said the following at 7:49 AM on Jul 11:
You know, obeying the speed limits isn't ONLY a Romans 13 issue (one that I don't always follow, but one that I have been getting much better on), but you don't have to fill up your tank with expensive gas as often.
I've found that indeed, driving brings out sin inside of me that was there all along, but I notice more because I actually let it come out. On the other hand, I have become more understanding, especially as it became clearer that I'm not such a hot driver myself.
28. Margaret said the following at 8:31 AM on Jul 11:
When I learned how to drive in high school my Drivers Ed teacher told me to drive within about 5mph below the posted speed limit-- it was an upper speed limit for a reason. At the same time my dad told me that to be safe I should drive within 5mph above for safety because no one ever really drives at exactly the speed limit. So I compromise-- depending on road conditions and traffic, that's my range. I rarely go much more than 5-10mph over, and NEVER go more than 5mph under. If you're so uncomfortable driving that you consistently drive 5-10mph (or more!) under the posted limit, you're putting yourself and others at great danger. Farmer Tom's experience is a fantastic example of this. I've seen too many cars totaled because people were unaware of their surroundings and did not follow reasonable road rules.
29. obewan said the following at 8:32 AM on Jul 11:
“>>The guy in the Hummer was impatient and getting rather close to my vehicle, trying to intimidate me. All sorts of hand gestures were coming from that car, most of them seemed to be saying speed up (hey...80mph is quite fast...deal with it buddy!). Once I passed the rig and pulled into the right lane the Hummer passed me and the passenger flipped me the bird. The last thing I saw of that car was the fish symbol on the back. What a testimony, a sad one, but still a testimony.<<”
The fact that he would even drive a Hummer in a world where we make ethanol to supply 2% of our oil need when SUV’s alone WASTE 6%, says it all about his testimony.
There is a book written about the psychological profile of people who drive SUV’s. It is called “High and Mighty”, and I find it to be accurate for many I encounter on the road.
I can be going 75 or 80 in my little Honda, and they run me off the road at 90mph, tailgating the whole way. They need to understand they are driving a 6000 lb murder weapon – ethanol induced starvation included in that accusation.
30. AEB said the following at 8:59 AM on Jul 11:
I've turned into a very good driver, which surprised me because my mother had to threaten me to get me behind the wheel when I was 16. She and I were in a terrible accident in 1997 which could have killed her and put her in the hospital for a month. I was 13 at the time, and had three years to stew about how scary cars were.
Now, after driving on Lookout Mtn. in the snow and fog, and 2 years in Miami, I doubt anything short of Mumbai or Mexico City traffic could scare me. Driving is fun!
31. Matt from DC said the following at 9:20 AM on Jul 11:
Wow, Farmer Tom, just wow. I am shocked so see you acting this way.
Tom Neven and Lukas brought up two good points. I got the sense from former comments on other posts that you don't try to disagree for the sake of argument, but always held the Word of God as our final authority. Do you only submit to your pastor when you agree with him? Do you only love your wife when you agree with her?
A farmer named Tom in comment 27 on another post at [http://www.boundlessline.org/2008/02/communication-s.html] once said:
"To ignore attacks on the very character and nature of the God of the universe, is well, unacceptable. Calling someone a communist who takes their worldview from a godless, atheistic darwinism is not an ad hominem attack, it's telling the truth. The truth hurts sometimes, but that doesn't mean we ignore the lies, or false logic, rather we call it what it is, a lie. Shining the light of truth on a lie is good and necessary."
Based on the above quote am I correct in assuming that your Darwinian sounding (see quote below) justification in your rant means that you're admitting to being a communist, too?
"I've got to assume that eliminating you from the gene pool would be a favor to future generations of IDIOTS sired by this IDIOT. I love my neighbor and I don't want him to have more little IDIOTS."
Finally, back down on playing God with your assumption that killing people because you think that they are an idiot would be a "favor to future generations". Who are you to decide who lives and dies? Who are you to size up a man or woman and discard those who displease you?
I'll be praying for you, brother.
32. Khalil said the following at 9:54 AM on Jul 11:
Outside of the times when I rent a vehicle (compact cars for good gas and cheap rentals) my personal vehicle is a Dodge Ram pickup. Gas isn't too great, but it is paid off and insurance is cheap. I justify the use of a truck because 1) I help people move, a lot (having a pickup is handy for this) 2) I can toss my kayaks and bike in the back when I go out 3) although I live in a city, it is still pretty rural around where I am at...the truck offers a good vantage point for deer and other animals that run out into the roads. When I move to Beirut this fall I will be selling the truck and without a car for at least 1-2 years. Once I get one in Beirut I am going the cheap compact route. When I was a biology student I had a Jeep Cherokee that I used regularly for field work and going off road. My personal philosophy is to get a vehicle that fits the needs.
I heard someone on the radio the other day claim SUVs are the new soccer mom cars. I have a friend that would rather spend $100 each fill up on her Yukon than ride in a car...all because she believes the Yukon is safer. It does bother me that people still buy the biggest and "baddest" cars, esp. when driven like maniacs.
Oh, the truck I drive was a hit with the international students. I could fit 5 students in the cab and they thought it was a great cultural experience ;)
33. obewan said the following at 11:07 AM on Jul 11:
"-->I have a friend that would rather spend $100 each fill up on her Yukon than ride in a car...all because she believes the Yukon is safer.--<"
The scary thing is the crash statistics do not support SUV safety at all. Something like 40% of fatalities are due to SUV rollovers. They are driving on the Interstate and get a blowout - rollover and die. Cars with airbags are safer than SUV's overall. Of course, if a SUV runs a light or stop sign and T-bones a small car broadside, it is clear who will win, but if the crash speed is small enough, we are talking about a few broken bones. I would rather risk broken bones than death, but that is just me.
34. Tom Neven said the following at 11:11 AM on Jul 11:
obewan (#33)
You write, "Something like 40% of fatalities are due to SUV rollovers."
The joke here in Colorado is if, during the winter, you hear about a rollover accident, it's almost guaranteed to be an SUV.
The drivers seem to think that 4-wheel drive voids the laws of physics.
35. k.k. said the following at 11:24 AM on Jul 11:
Wow @ some of these comments!
I'm glad the perspective of those who have to drive but don't like to are mentioned. That helps me to have more compassion on some folks who drive.
Farmer Tom: It's unfortunate that you had to have that experience, and since I drive a school bus, I can sympathize. I have many stories of what people have done to me while on that bus. I do think the speed limits are posted for a reason.
I think the problem is a lot of cars are made to go too fast, so the concept of going 45mph on a highway is not very feasible when you have cars that can go as fast as 140 mph! I live in the DC area and there is a local highway I drive to go to work everyday, and the posted speed limit is 45mph but most folks go 70-80 mph!
I try to not go over 10mph, but sometimes I don't want to slow down traffic (even though I stay in the right lane.) I have saved on gas mileage by staying around 60 mph.
Khalil: smh to that Hummer. They definitely have issues. I think people that drive like that are definitely bullies and they need to get their licenses revoked. That's why I refuse to put a fish, a bumper sticker or anything on my car, because I know I have my moments where I can be a little aggressive.
36. Derek Wong said the following at 11:25 AM on Jul 11:
I definitely see how ugly it can get with driving. I'm not even sure why.
On the other hand, I've definitely gotten better over time. It might be in no small part because I've consciously tried slowing down. That alone causes me to be less stressed and lees aggressive. Unfortunately, though, my blood can still come to a boil when something happens. This especially happens for people's mistakes that somehow put me (or my passengers or vehicle) in danger. Is that right? Hm maybe sometimes?
(On a slight sidenote, I wrote a sarcastic article On Driving that mocks the things that people do. It was my way of venting some of that dissatisfaction with how people drive. Hopefully that doesn't mean that I'm sitting in the seat of scoffers.)
37. Kate said the following at 11:50 AM on Jul 11:
I've been driving 60 on the highway for a month or so, in MI the speed limit is 70 so it's acceptable to go 80. I've been doing this to save gas (remarkable difference, even in my small cavalier!) but it also has benefits mentioned above. It's kind of nice to just stay in the right lane and not have to be scheming and planning how you're going to be first in line to pass all the slow people all the time.
Instead of being annoyed at other drivers, who tend to drive very aggressively around me, I become blown away by the absurdity of their behavior... look at how much money and gas they are wasting driving that SUV at 90 mph! Look at how needlessly bad they are making themselves feel in their petty anger and annoyance! Such costs for such meaningless or downright false benefits!
In a way it's funny, in the way Dr. Strangelove is funny... but in a way it's sad or even tragic because at those higher speeds with erratic annoyed distracted driving, they are putting themselves and others in danger with their "6000 pound murder weapons." Even worse if they are driving that way with a vehicle with an engine that eats the food that used to go towards feeding people in third world countries...
38. farmer Tom said the following at 12:24 PM on Jul 11:
I broke my glasses at work an hour ago, and have an appointment to get them fixed in a couple of hours, so while I'm waiting, I've got the letters on the screen enlarged to about 250% and I try to answer the quesitons.
Lukas,
Yes, very Darwinian, don't you all know sarcasm when you see it???
Tom, Tom, Tom you are projecting. In no way did I advocate disobedience to any traffic law. I believe the Scripture should be the basis upon which our government operates as well.
And I find no Scriptural basis in Genesis 6, Romans 13 or any other passage for the government to be writing laws which violate the natural laws of the universe, laws which come from the Creator.
I've read Romans 13 numerous times, and while I strongly believe that government is established by God. Legitimate government is a very limited small government. The purpose of government according to Romans 13 is to punish evil doers I believe this includes war, and numerous other functions related to punishing evil doers. But, I see nothing in the passage that suggests the purpose of government is to regulate human behavior.
See nothing government can do, writing laws posting signs, putting up surveillance cameras, nothing they can do will stop people from doing evil or breaking the law.
Murder is illegal, yet two people were killed in Des Moines yesterday. Drunk driving is illegal, yet four people were killed by drunk drivers last weekend here in Iowa.
Legitimate government can only enforce the law, after the fact. Any attempt by government to regulate behavior prior to the act being committed will eventually lead to a government of tyranny. If government can tell you where you can our can not go, when or when you can not go there, and how fast you can go there, then government is no longer a threat to "evil doers" but to even those who do good. And that clearly violated the principles of Romans 13.
An illustration, it is fairly common for me to go to work before 6:00 am. Many times I will drive from my house through a town of 600 people, and 6 more miles to the farm and neversee another car. Not one car. Now what good is a law written by government which says that I can only drive at a certain speed in that drive to work. It is a useless act of oppression by a tyrannis government attempting to regulate my behavior. Government is not there they don't know the road conditions, number of cars present, or any of the other factor which should go into the citizens decision on how fast to drive.
See, I believe in personal responsibility. I am accountable before the Creator God for my behavior and actions. I don't need government to tell me how fast to drive, I have to make that decision for myself. I believe in "obedience to the unenforceable". I obey God's law, if I violate it, I expect government to punish me. If I kill the IDIOTdriver that comes from the very bottom of the gene pool, I'm still accountable to the Creator for killing one of His creatures.
Matt from DC,
It was a joke man, I have no intentions of killing anybody. On the other hand, this guy was very close to killing himself by acting in a dangerous and selfish manner by putting himself in the situation where I(others) were required to radically alter our actions to prevent harm to him. The car following me attempted to pass this guy driving so slow, and nearly had a head on collision with an on coming car. He was a danger to himself and others, I believe he was violating God's law of treating others as we wish to be treated. The killing him part was a joke.
39. farmer Tom said the following at 12:59 PM on Jul 11:
Tom Neven,
Just to clarify. I recognize and acknowledge the God given role of government. I'm simply suggesting that there is a Biblical role for government as well, and that role is open to debate.
The current system we have is far removed from what the founders thought they were establishing, and I dare say they would be appalled at some of the authority that we have allowed government to usurp which they believed were matters of personal responsibility.
I don't think they could conceive of the idea that we would allow government to dictate to the citizen where we could go, how we could go there and that government could tell us how fast we could get there.
I want a return to government which allows me my personal freedoms, and which punishes those who violate the laws of nature and natures God.
40. Tom Neven said the following at 12:59 PM on Jul 11:
farmer Tom (#38)
You say,
What natural laws are you referring to here? The situation you originally described, coming up on a slowpoke and the natural consequences of a collision, have nothing to do with traffic laws. You do not say what the speed limit was in that situation. Was the guy driving 35 following the speed limit and you were speeding? Or were you following the speed limit and he was just a slowpoke? Whatever the answer, it says nothing about the biblical model for civil law.
You're reading your modern Libertarian political philosophy into Scripture. You're taking an argument from silence and building a whole way of life around it.
Only if you focus on the word enforce. A lot of us follow the law because, well, it's the law, so it never has to be enforced for an infraction.
Classic slippery-slope fallacy. Show me where routine traffic laws lead to tyranny, and maybe you'll have a point.
The only reason the government tells you you can't take your car somewhere (e.g., wrong way on a one-way road) is for good order and safety, not to take away your liberties. Ditto for speed limits.
You have a very selective reading of Scripture, farmer Tom, and you force your Libertarian political philosophy onto it in many instances. The main problem with Libertarianism is it is selfishness disguised under a thin veneer of political thinking with an even thinner veneer of Scripture on top.
It also tends towards the extremes and is incapable of seeing the broad middle.
41. obewan said the following at 1:00 PM on Jul 11:
Farmer Tom Said:
“—>this guy was very close to killing himself by acting in a dangerous and selfish manner by putting himself in the situation where I(others) were required to radically alter our actions to prevent harm to him.ß”
I would prefer to call him a road hazard rather than an idiot. I grew up in the country and am quite familiar with unexpected things that one might encounter on rural highways. Would you call the mailman (stopped ½ way in the road) or the school bus driver (also stopped) and idiot? What about the farmer driving a combine or tractor? You face the same hazard with any of the above when coming over the hill in a tractor-trailer at 60 mph. It is just one case can cause more temper than the others. Also, the guy could have pulled onto the road and been accelerating to speed and perhaps did not see you since his view was blocked by the hill.
As for speed limits in the country, in Michigan, we most often had none. In driver’s ed, we were taught the legal term was prima fascia which means “at your own discretion” or “as conditions permit.” If you are diving 70mph on the ice in the winter and kill someone, you might be accused of being negligent even though there is no posted speed limit. Of course, then what about the person with studded snow tires or 4wd? It goes on and on….
42. ptschett said the following at 1:08 PM on Jul 11:
Methinks there's plenty of high and mightyness to go around amongst anyone who thinks they know better than someone else what kind of vehicle they should have. My motorcycle sees more off-road than most SUVs while getting better mileage than a compact car, but you won't hear me picking on either group.
43. obewan said the following at 1:57 PM on Jul 11:
“---Methinks there's plenty of high and mightyness (sic) to go around amongst anyone who thinks they know better than someone else what kind of vehicle they should have.---”
I would not try to impose my views on anyone, but would insist that the average trends should be pointed out. The gov’t rightly so should enforce some kind of fuel economy standard on the AVERAGE fuel economy. That standard should NOT be allowed to call a huge TRUCK a car, or a “car” that is an SUV an “exempt” commercial vehicle. If the standard is set properly, people who insist on having an SUV could still buy a hybrid truck that might get in excess of 30 mpg.
At some point, as with all laws, a line should be drawn in the sand. We are turning food into fuel and millions are facing starvation as a result. Not caring about it or putting our heads in the sand is just a typical American mentality that goes along with gluttony and obesity.
I was in Europe in 1986 even for a whole month and I only saw ONE SUV the whole time I was there. In fact, the overwhelming vast majority of cars I did see got in excess of 30 mpg. Even if we raise the CAFÉ, some people will still be able to buy SUV’s – like those with a large carpool or who legitimately need them for commercial work.
I appreciate the fact that you drive a motorcycle though, and that is something I would do too if there were fewer crazies on the roads. Still, I practice moderation and drive a Honda Civic.
I could do better with a bike, but it is a far cry greater than an SUV too. Then, what if I had a hopped up bike that only got 40mpg? Not much different than a car.
When we talk about this subject, we need to talk about AVERAGES. Currently, there is a 2-3% shortage of oil, and SUV WASTE ALONE accounts for 6% of total demand.
44. brx said the following at 2:50 PM on Jul 11:
Farmer Tom,
Just a few thoughts: in the US, speed limits are set according to a set of road feature guidelines and statistic surveys so that they represent a statistic maximum safe speed for best weather conditions and average driver abilities during all times of day/night. Over time, some advancing vehicle technology allows drivers to drive over the prior posted limits and still remain statistically 'safe'. To account for this, periodically (every few years) roads are surveyed at one or more key points to gather data to determine if the posted limits are still accurate given the type of traffic the road is being used for. These reports go togetehr with a whole bunch of other data to determine what limits should be set and where. Since these speed limits are set based on a statistical model, yes, there will be some combinations of vehichles and drivers that may be able to drive faster than the posted limit and still meet all the necessary safety requirements. Problem is, we have no system in place for measuring and licensing those special driver/vehicle combinations. One might ask then, why have any limit and licensing system at all - why not just allow everyone to drive as fast as they feel is safe? A big problem with that is the thrill of going fast impairs most people's judgement regarding already impaired perception of what a 'safe' speed is for the road they are on -- and then we end up with many more wrecks and collisions than when we have knowledgeable people advise drivers by posting speed limit signs.
[interstingly, I heard a news blurb that since gas went over 4$/gal it's been causing drivers to slow down, reducing fatalities by an estimated 1000/month]
In addition to the posted maximum speed limit law, driving in the US is governed by the law that drivers are never supposed to drive faster than safely allowed by current weather and road conditions. "Road conditions" includes obstacles stationary and those moving with the flow of traffic. Considering that, your tale of having to lock up your brakes as you came upon a driver doing 35mph could very well be considered an example of a driver going too fast for the road condition of limited visibility over a hill. If the other driver was doing 35 and you 60, then your approach speed was only 25mph yet you still had to lock up the brakes. With that given, one might surmise that if the other vehicle had been a break-down, or downed tree, or other stationary object in the road, you might have been in some serious wreckage because your approach would have been 60mph possibly without enough stopping distance.
Just a thought.
Tractor-trailers are cool.
Grace & peace
45. ptschett said the following at 4:52 PM on Jul 11:
obewan, I do agree that the fuel economy regulations should consider personal use vehicles under the car umbrella. I always thought it was silly how selling a low-20's MPG full-size station wagon was worse on an automaker's CAFE than selling a high-teens MPG SUV instead.
(Even my wintertime/stuff hauling vehicle, a midsize pickup, isn't immune from the games... 10 lbs less GVWR and it'd be in a different class where tougher emissions rules apply.)
46. Adam D. said the following at 6:58 PM on Jul 11:
I always sort of theorized that people's competence at driving showed their general competence in life. My brother is autistic, and he drives autistic! He's generally self absorbed when driving and completely absent minded when it comes to other drivers around him. Needless to say, he doesn't drive anymore.
Anyways, I can't really offer any more empirical proof, but I think I'm onto something with public driving determining someone's general competence.
47. farmer Tom said the following at 11:11 PM on Jul 11:
brx, said,
Just a few thoughts: in the US, speed limits are set according to a set of road feature guidelines and statistic surveys so that they represent a statistic maximum safe speed for best weather conditions and average driver abilities during all times of day/night
If only that were true, in fact, most speed limits are set by politicians in some place far removed from the actual place where the sign is posted. In fact some moron is again purposing a national 55 mph speed limit to save on fuel. That is not the preview of some government bureaucrat. I will decide for my self whether to trade my time for fuel efficiency thank you very much.
Tom,
You have claimed I am selectively reading Scripture, fine you may be right but you failed to address my question. According to Genesis 6 and Romans 13 what is the purpose of government? You don't like my answers, show me from Scripture where I'm wrong. Where does government get the right to tax my time? That is not an action of punishment for evil doers!!
Back up a step. Were the founding fathers within their legitimate rights given by God to throw of the chains of tyranny placed there by King George??? Weren't they rebelling against the government ordained by God?? Are you a Tory, sir? Do you believe that we should still be subjects to the King?
See, I'm convinced that Christians have allowed our government to do things that the founders would have cited as grounds for rebellion from the tyrannical system we now live under.
Jesus said, "To render under Caesar what is Caesar's," but He did not say Render unto Caesar anything he wants. There should be limits on the power of government. The question is what are those limits. I take it you would give them anything they want, because they are the "God given authority". You believe it is impossible for government to overstep it's authority.
One more thing,
You do not say what the speed limit was in that situation. Was the guy driving 35 following the speed limit and you were speeding? Or were you following the speed limit and he was just a slowpoke?
It was a two lane state highway, the speed limit was 55, I was driving a 82,000 lb 18 wheeler, it was long stretch of down hill, with several small hills in the same stretch. I had just gotten up to between 55 and 60 on this down hill run, come up over the small hill and this guy who I could not see until I topped the hill was going 35 mph in a 1988 to 1990 blue Ford van. I know he was going 35 because when I finally got slowed down to his speed, I had to follow him up one of the small hills before I could pass. His license number was AJY XXX I know cause I was within 10 feet of his back bumper.
48. Ashley said the following at 9:16 AM on Jul 12:
Heh. Glad I'm not alone. I'm more inclined to become frustrated with inanimate objects (i.e. the light that WON'T. TURN. GREEN!) than other drivers -- unless the other drivers are blatantly inconsiderate (ie, driving 5 mph below the speed limit in the far right lane) or about to kill me (ie an 18 wheeler cutting me off on an exit ramp.)
I used to get kind of nasty in my own car with those people, but a short car ride with a friend of mine, altered the way I deal with bad driving behavior.
We were trekking along down a main drag road and some driver in front of us was yacking on a cell phone. In stead of getting angry she just spouted suggestions for the guy in front of us,
"er... the speed limit is 45 Mr. Cell Phone Man..."
Everyone in the car laughed, and a potentially tense situation dissipated. By calling him out by simply a factual attribute she avoided judging him by his poor driving judgment or assassinating his character.
I thought it was a pretty nifty technique to manage my own road rage so I lifted it from her :)
49. Rachael said the following at 11:14 AM on Jul 12:
Adam (46),
And that "competence", like character, can mature over time...
Perhaps the way people drive does refect upon their personality/mindset, even if to a small extent.
But no one has to be "locked" into a particular behavior or driving style...
except maybe locked into their parallel parking abilities or lack thereof...
50. BDB said the following at 11:23 AM on Jul 12:
We should eliminate the CAFE standards and eliminate all the subsidies for ethanol and other agricultural products that are messing up food and oil prices. Time to drill! This is one area where developing nations like Brazil and China - which are pursuing drilling opportunities - make the U.S. policy look silly and short-sighted.
51. BDB said the following at 11:39 AM on Jul 12:
Hmmm...I remember an incident with a driver who was deliberately doing irritating things.
There is a freeway interchange near me that is pretty tricky. I'd usually put my blinker on early because cars would come from one freeway much faster than the flow on the other freeway, making it difficult to get to the right and exit.
One day, I noticed that someone wasn't letting me merge over - they were matching my speed. I looked to my right - and the guy was GRINNING at me. He apparently thought it was funny that he wasn't going to let me exit the freeway.
It was a Ford Probe, and my engine wasn't powerful enough to pull in front of him. But I've seen Top Gun. So while still looking at him, I slammed on my brakes and he shot in front of me.
Then in front of me, he did the same thing to a Suburban. I saw dust as the left tires of the Suburban hit the dirt. Then the Suburban driver remembered tha he was bigger than the Probe. He swung to the right, sending the Probe into the dirt.
Ah, how sweet when God arranges people to be repaid according to their works...(see 2 Timothy 4:14)
52. JoshuaKeirn said the following at 1:44 PM on Jul 12:
Let me just say a few things, from the perspective of someone who makes a living teaching driver education.
1. There are a lot of people out there who have a complete lack of respect for and willingness to follow the laws relating to traffic.
2. It is very difficult to teach teenagers the best way to drive a car when they constantly say, "My mom and dad told me to do it this way!" I'm sorry if your parents both eat cheese fries while talking on the phone as they are "driving," but it's wrong and just plain foolish.
3. Most of the time, I worry less about getting in a car with my students driving than I would when getting in their parents' car with a parent driving, for 2 reasons: I have a brake on my side in the driver ed. car, and the kid is more likely to accept correction when making a mistake. The adult is going to tell me how he/she has been driving this way for x years and hasn't died, so it's OK.
Also, has anyone ever noticed how a lot of "legalistic" people (anti-smoking, anti-this or that) tend to drive 15 mph over the speed limit?
53. Nicole said the following at 6:24 PM on Jul 12:
We are so attached to our vehicles, they seem to become an extension of us. We pick the make, model, color, we get to choose our own music etc... here we are locked in our own little world looking out through a piece of glass. I believe that you can get a real good idea of someones character by watching how they drive. Are they Patient and considerate of others? Do they anger easily and resort to name calling and rude gestures? Are they paying attention? Do they forgive other drivers who arn't as good as them? Do they follow the traffic rules? Are they always in a hurry? A really good test is to see how they react to a fender bender that wasn't there fault, or if their car is towed. Do they pray for those "crazy" drivers out there? Do they pray for the victims of traffic accidents as they pass? Will they stop to help people stuck on the side of the road? How do they handle 'back seat drivers'? When they are pulled over by cops ( as everyone is from time to time for some reason or another) How do they treat the officers? How about when the officer issues a ticket?
54. Ken Brown said the following at 2:06 PM on Jul 14:
I'm exactly the same! I wonder if it's because in the car we don't usually have to worry about anyone else hearing our rage, so it comes out easier? I don't know, but it is very strange....
55. xeres said the following at 2:33 PM on Jul 14:
hahaha, it is so funny. I just passed my driving exam. My Driver's license is on the way.
56. Leah said the following at 7:49 PM on Jul 14:
Julia H-
Lol, speed reading for the lose, I had to re-read your comment to understand what you misread :D
57. Nicole said the following at 9:44 PM on Jul 14:
Totally agree BDB #50 :)
Oh, and about anger when driving. I have definitely found myself with problems about that at times -- especially turn signals. I'm trying to get better about it though...
58. Bryce said the following at 10:30 PM on Jul 14:
@ Cathy S - Post 1
"It is so encouraging to know that there are many drivers out there who get angry."
I read that and just started cracking up - then of course I read the rest, but that first phrase out of context is rather funny.
59. obewan said the following at 6:35 AM on Jul 15:
BDB #50 says: “We should eliminate the CAFE standards…”
We did that in the early-mid 1990’s for SUV’s and look where it got us today? In fact, I heard the current overall CAFÉ is lower now than it was in the 1970’s. A cheap and abundant energy supply is the most important thing to the survival of the entire world economy. The government regulates the money supply and banking system, why not the most important thing to economic survival?
I agree we should drill, but even if we do, it can only increase supply 2-3%. China and India will be using far more than that, and in the US alone, SUV energy WASTE contributes to 6% of total world demand. Eliminate SUV waste and switch people to a big car that gets 26mpg, and the current world will have a 3% SURPLUS instead of a 3% shortage according to Friends of the Earth.
Left to greed and obesity, some people will only destroy themselves and take us with them.
Now as for 55 speed limits, I have a different opinion. Let those of us with over 30 mpg at 70 drive 70. Make the 6000 SUV murder weapons (at 12mpg) drive 55 like tractor trailers. (only kidding lol)
60. BDB said the following at 12:09 PM on Jul 15:
Obewan (#55) wrote:
>>We did that in the early-mid 1990’s for SUV’s and look where it got us today? <<
Umm...it made hybrids trendy? It made Honda invent cylinder-management technology that uses fewer cylinders when you don't need all the power an engine puts out?
Seriously, high gas prices adjusted consumer preferences far faster than either Detroit or Government micromanagement of the economy did. The only thing the CAFE standards do is make cars much more expensive for the same stuff - forcing the poorest Americans to drive old cars that pollute vastly more than newer cars with equivalent power. Much better to reduce regulation and remove those costs from the cars. We'll do far better to get the old ones off the road. But they need to be reasonably priced - you can't just take away transportation from the poor and expect the world to get any better.
The economic reality is that now that people have stopped buying the SUVs, it's wiping out the jobs of all the folks in Detroit who made them. It's creating more work for the Honda employees in Ohio, of course.
Are luxuries wasteful? You bet! But lots and lots of jobs are created for people who make luxury items. CAFE standards are like the luxury tax they put on boats one year. Wiped out the luxury boat-building market, putting all the boat builders on unemployment. The tax was repealed after a year.
The Japanese companies have no trouble meeting the CAFE "standards" because they make good little cars that run forever, not the junk that's been turned out by the big three for so many years. They've gotten better, but American automakers don't seem to have the attention span to build a quality vehicle for 20 years. That's why Toyota whipped them in the marketplace.
61. Kathryn said the following at 1:18 AM on Jul 20:
I used to be a hoon and it wasn't till me friends dared me to do the speed limit for a month, that I finally slowed down for good. Now I realise that the road rules are put in place by government and God wants me to obey them. When it's a spiritual matter, not just a driving matter, it becomes a little bit more serious.
It also helps me to purposefully sit behind slow drivers sometimes so I can learn to enjoy the drive. Having been a hoon helps me to me patient with those who lack it (other hoons).