Two Top 10 Lists of Decent and Deplorable Colleges
by Motte Brown on 07/25/2008 at 11:00 AM
I love top ten lists. And Salvo Magazine has provided two good ones on colleges in their Spring 2008 issue. It's not a best and worst list, it's a decent and deplorable list based on "qualities of a great college." You'll see what I mean.
10 Decent Colleges
Best Elite College -- Princeton University, Princeton, NJ
Most Faithful to Religious Heritage -- Biola University, La Mirada, CA
Best Non-traditional Student Work Program -- College of the Ozarks, Point Lookout, MO
Best Value -- Grove City College, Grove City, PA
Best Math/Sciences/Engineering College -- Massachusetts Institute of Technology, Cambridge, MA
Best Research University -- University of Chicago, Chicago, IL
Best Learning Environment -- Hampden-Sydney College, Hampden-Sydney, VA
Best Core Curriculum -- Thomas Aquinas College, Santa Paula, CA
Best for Civic Education -- Hillsdale College, Hillsdale, MI
Best Integration of Sports and Academics -- Wheaton College, Wheaton, IL
10 Deplorable Colleges
Worst Speech Code -- Tufts University, Medford, MA
Worst Core [Curriculum] -- Brown University, Providence, RI
Worst Elite College -- Amherst College, Amherst, MA
Least Faithful to Religious Heritage -- College of the Holy Cross, Worcester, MA
Worst for Civic Education -- Johns Hopkins University, Baltimore, MD
Most Radicalized Faculty -- Columbia University, New York, NY
Most Sexualized Campus -- Oberlin College, Oberlin, OH
Most Oppressive Student-Life Indoctrination Program -- University of Delaware, Newark, DE
Worst Sports Debacle -- University of Colorado at Boulder, Boulder, CO
Worst Learning Environment -- University of Florida, Gainesville, FL
Most of these categories are self-explanatory, which makes for a good list. For the full context, you can order the mag here.
1. Rebecca said the following at 11:15 AM on Jul 25:
I protest! As lovely as College of the Ozarks is (and I am from MO, so I do have a bit of a voice) I protest its position as : Best Non-traditional Student Work Program -- College of the Ozarks, Point Lookout, MO.
My alma mater, Berea College in Berea, KY has an amazing work program and gives you an incredible academic program as well. I graduated with an education that could easily rival an Ivy League school and with approx. $6,000 in school debt (would have been ZERO if I hadn't studied abroad in Thailand and Chile). 75% of Berea students go on to get advanced degrees (may be a slightly dated statistic), and even though it has a relatively small student body, it also has some of the highest percentages of African-American and International students.
So.... I don't know what their criteria was, but my vote goes to Berea!
2. Katherine said the following at 11:29 AM on Jul 25:
Hmm...interesting. I went to Wheaton College, and one of our big catch-phrases was "the integration of faith and learning". But what are we apparently good at? The "integration of sports and academics". I don't actually know what I think about that...
3. Loris said the following at 11:37 AM on Jul 25:
I'm a little disappointed Covenant College didn't make the list. But of course, it's pretty small.
4. Fleisch said the following at 11:48 AM on Jul 25:
Uh, Brown doesn't have a core curriculum...how can it be the worst if it doesn't like, exist and stuff? That is kind of Brown's "thing."
5. Tom Neven said the following at 12:06 PM on Jul 25:
Katherine (#2)
I'm a Wheatie, too, and I just say "huh!?" when I see the list.
Sports!? When I was there was had lousy sports teams except for a so-so soccer team. (All those MKs who grew up playing soccer, doncha know.)
I have firsthand experience with three of the institutions on the list: Wheaton as undergrad, Columbia as graduate student, and Biola, my daughter's college.
They're right about Columbia: One of my professors (Osborne Elliott, former editor of Newsweek,) openly mocked my faith in class. It's also where a sociology professor hoped for "a million Mogadishus" (referring to the October 1993 death of 18 soldiers in the Black Hawk Down incident) when protesting the Iraq War.
While I want to protest that Wheaton has also remained true to its religious heritage (at least while I was there), Biola well deserves to be on that list, too.
6. Carrie (the original) said the following at 12:19 PM on Jul 25:
Loris, we both know that Wheaton is better than Covenant at everything. :)
Although I'm also a little baffled that it made the list where it did.
7. Julie H said the following at 12:26 PM on Jul 25:
Well, I loved my time at Hillsdale College, but I didn't know what 'civic education' meant until I asked someone. If it means how to be a contributing member of a civic society, yes, they did a good job - I got the meaning even if I didn't know the definition.
My first love went off to Oberlin after high school... haha. Yup, from what I picked up afterward, the shoe fits. He was gentle, not frat-boy-ish, but he was sure poetically sexualized after his first year.
8. Nicole (from Boston) said the following at 12:50 PM on Jul 25:
Not sure how I feel about three of the deplorable colleges being from Massachusetts. Although I'm not sure what "Worst Speech Code" actually means. Props to MIT for being the lone MA representative on the "decent" list.
9. Rachael said the following at 1:15 PM on Jul 25:
My cousin and 2 siblings went or go to Grove City. My sister met her spouse there. I hear it's a decent price for a private school.
10. Ronnica said the following at 1:20 PM on Jul 25:
The "Worst learning environment" one makes me chuckle. Explains a lot...
11. Tami said the following at 1:38 PM on Jul 25:
Phew! My university didn't make it on that "worst" list. Given its rep, I thought surely it would. ;)
But then, it's a good university, and there's a strong Christian presence. Currently there are around 25 Christian groups [including Catholic and evangelical groups -- not counting the universalists] on campus, plus a TON of little-o orthodox churches in the area with college groups. And (as I've mentioned in other threads) a strong contingent of Christian faculty, and well-led courses in Christianity.
Honestly -- I think the "darker" the campus, the greater the opportunity for Christians. Not that I'd suggest someone attend a college *because* of a shaky reputation, but just know that just because that school is where you're headed, doesn't mean that you won't find any fellowship.
[Believe it or not... this thread is far more uplifting than some of the others currently under discussion. I think I'll stay here. ;)]
12. Rachel L said the following at 1:40 PM on Jul 25:
College of the Ozarks Alum here...and happy to see it on the list.
Gotta give the Berea grad some credit, though. All of the colleges within the "work colleges consortium" (a group of 7 colleges featuring a non-traditional work program) offer amazing opportunities to students.
I only find it disappointing that there are so few work-schools out there. It is unfortunate that so few students have an opportunity to graduate 100% debt free as I did.
I worked in the Public Relations Department at C of O for a couple years and spent a good part of my time managing media coverage/clips ....wonder if the PR Director has seen this...hm...I should forward it.
13. J. Tucker said the following at 1:56 PM on Jul 25:
Fleisch (#4), I totally agree with you.
Students who need Math 101 or an English class to learn how to write a proper paragraph are not going to be admitted to Brown. Students who are admitted do not need a "core curriculum". They are chosen specifically because they are intelligent enough to chose their own curriculum in regards to their interests, strengths, and weaknesses. Graduate schools, professional schools, and prospective employers are not going to be concerned with how well you performed in BIO 101. They will, on the other hand, be impressed that you attended an Ivy League college.
Yes, the world is THAT shallow.
14. Michelle (of Kansas) said the following at 2:00 PM on Jul 25:
Hey, Loris (#3)...if you're talking about Covenant College in Lookout Mountain, GA...then Bryan College might mean something to you. =)
15. Tom Neven said the following at 2:38 PM on Jul 25:
J. Tucker (#13)
I think you misunderstand what a core curriculum is. It's not the basic 101-level courses. It's a curriculum that unifies all the learning that will take place during the college experience, thus making it a university and not a multiversity.
Columbia, another Ivy League school, is known for its core curriculum. Does that mean Columbia students are dumb? No, it means that wise elders, through lifelong learning and hard-earned wisdom, have decided what an educated person needs to know in order to be a fully rounded citizen.
Wheaton also has a very good core curriculum, 70-plus hours out of 125 needed to graduate.
Would that more colleges and universities get back to the idea of a core curriculum and away from the idea that wet-behind-the-ears 18-year-olds know what they need in life, no matter how smart they may think they are. That's why we see such a proliferation of utterly unserious and unacademic courses such as Queer Theater, Women's Studies and the like.
16. Loris said the following at 2:39 PM on Jul 25:
Why yes Michelle (#14), Bryan means a big headache to our soccer program. :)
17. Carrie (the original) said the following at 2:48 PM on Jul 25:
I lost my "Bryan shirt" years ago . . .
Sadness. :(
18. J. Tucker said the following at 3:22 PM on Jul 25:
I'm sorry, Tom, but I have to respectfully disagree. First, Women's Studies is a serious and academic course. I think more men would be fully-rounded citizens if they had a deeper understanding and appreciation for the contributions that women have made to our country over the course of history.
Second, the basic 101-level courses are part of the core curriculum. More than 30 hours of that 70 hours of core curriculum can be filled with courses that merely serve to waste a student's time and money. As Fleisch pointed out, Brown has made name for itself by changing the way the process of rounding out students is accomplished. And as I pointed out before, students at Brown will have learned everything from that wasted 30 hours of class in high school.
I'm rambling again, but I think the point is that a lot needs to be done about the core curricula in colleges. I become frustrated when I see that a great university is being denigrated because it doesn't offer a traditional approach to basic education. Who knows, maybe college students would "grow up" a little faster if they were able to make more substantive decisions about the $30,000 that they are borrowing/paying for one year of tuition.
19. Lauren said the following at 3:45 PM on Jul 25:
I'm heading to Grove City this fall, and I'm always excited to see them represented. :)
20. Tom Neven said the following at 4:09 PM on Jul 25:
J. Tucker (#18)
Sorry, I should have said only 101-level courses. But a good core curriculum encompasses everything from 101- to 400-level courses.
And, again, I think you misunderstand the purpose of a core curriculum. It is to expose a student to a broad level of learning and subject matter that will make him a well-rounded, educated person in addition to the subject he chooses to major in.
It would be the very rare high school indeed that had its students read Kant's "Critique of Pure Reason," but every Wheaton student deals with it in the required basic philosophy course that is part of its core curriculum. Similar reading is part of Columbia's core curriculum, as I'm sure it is at other colleges. (Specifics might vary.)
And we can learn about the contributions of women in a history course; no need for an entire department.
The idea of women's studies violates the idea of a university by stating explicitly that some types of knowledge need to be segregated, meaning there is no universal truth but only multiple truths, which today's multiversity teaches, that knowledge cannot be integrated but is merely part of separate fiefdoms. Such thinking is inherently Marxist at its root, not in the economic sense that most people think of Marx but in the Hegalian sense that there is no core, universal truth that is true of all human, but we are merely members of our race, class, ethnicity, etc.
The politically correct fascism and speech codes that infect so much of the modern campus is another natural outgrowth of this worldview.
21. Marci said the following at 4:14 PM on Jul 25:
Tucker (#13) and Tom Neven(#15):
First Tucker - I wholeheartedly agree with your perspective.
Now Neven - you said: "That's why we see such a proliferation of utterly unserious and unacademic courses such as Queer Theater, Women's Studies and the like"
It sounds to me like you've never taken a course in Queer Theater or Women's Studies; if you had taken such course (assuming that you haven't...or haven't taken many such classes) you might have seen that material in such courses are discussed in very analytical ways. The courses actively engage with key issues in society - some of the very issues that people will start screaming and yelling about - getting students to use theoretical approaches when posing solutions. It's extremely good academic training.
I've taken numerous queer studies and women studies classes. I am a woman, but I am not homosexual. However, it's also useful to know what marginalized communities think about many issues. This is knowledge that both those who agree with homosexuality and those who don't could benefit from. In fact, many of the classes that engage with queer studies and women's studies are - in my experience - are on the cutting edge of theoretical practices (from an academic perspective). They force students to *think* and understand the power of discourse.
A special note on women's studies: it's not all about extreme feminism. It's about understanding all the shades in between, as well. Most often, it's about showing us how women contribute to society, and theorizing how women can continue to do so effectively in the future.
A few thoughts...
22. DannieA said the following at 5:10 PM on Jul 25:
I do have to input that I went to two fine Universities that didn't make the list...and I'll represent for them
Abilene Christian University in Abilene, TX...great all around Christian school
Loma Linda University in Loma Linda, CA...awesome Christian school for medical school, allied health professions.
Ok that's it for my plug in (of course I think ACU is marked as top 20-50 or something like that...not 10)
23. Melissa S. said the following at 8:17 PM on Jul 25:
My schools didn't make it into either Top 10 list, which is not surprising since the first is a junior college and the second is the relatively lowly CSU Bakerfield. It took me five years to earn a BA but I graduated debt-free, so that's good.
My major was Liberal Studies (minor was Deaf Studies). I chose that on purpose, trying to get a liberal education with a core curriculum. Overall, the programs at both schools were great, although they did have "diversity" requirements.
I was required to take diversity classes about women, the economic underclass, and women. The class about the economic underclass was a joke, but maybe, somewhere there is a good class about this subject. I learned a lot more about the subject by reading "Basic Economics" by Thomas Sowell during high school.
The classes about women weren't much better. First, nearly all the students in the classes were women. Someone mentioned in another comment that men should have the benefit of these classes. They can't if they aren't there. Maybe they are in other classes but that didn't happen in my experience. Second, the class information was not "diverse" at all. It presented one point of view, which was basically that men hold women down, women make less money and spend their lives serving jerks, there is no way they can win. I sure felt sorry for the men in the classes. Most of the women were happy to contribute stories about how oppressed they were for having fewer opportunities, seeming to forget that they were actually sitting in a college class as they spoke.
Sure, the material was discussed in an analytical way. Everything from the textbook was discussed analytically. So there was the textbook's point of view, and nothing else. I would have nicely brought up other points. However, I'd done that in another class where the prof was clearly a "women's studies" fan and my grade suffered. After that, I just kept my mouth shut and regurgitated what they wanted to hear. It's not that hard. Once you've heard one class, you heard it all.
The thing that bothers me about the diversity classes being added into the liberal studies major is that they are not a part of the historical core curriculum. It's like they're telling us we're all racist, sexist, etc, and unless we take some classes in the subject, we'll have no clue what real enlightenment on these subjects are.
My disclaimer is that I have no objection to learning some actual new information. I'm a woman, have friends of varied ethnicities and backgrounds, and get a kick out of studying cultures and languages.
The diversity/women's classes are required in every single major. So does that make it part of the core curriculum now? If you're a science major, they don't make you round out your education by taking lots of history, English, and math. But everybody takes diversity classes.
This comment is probably appalling to some people but it is just some random observations coming from personal experience.
24. Christopher Unseth said the following at 9:05 PM on Jul 25:
Hey guys, I didn't read through the entire thread but I got the gist of what you were saying. I'm a student at Brown and the open curriculum is awesome...for most students. You see, the thing is, most Brown students are coming into school with 5 to 10 AP credits (arguably a core curriculum in itself) - and we're not talking 3's, it's 4's and 5's. Why would student's like that even want core curriculum's, why would faculty want to waste their time teaching things their students already know?
Of course, I don't mean to say that core curriculum's are bad, but where does the personal responsibility come in when the school decides all of your classes during your first year? I love that I could take mostly english courses one year, and math the next if I feel like it. It's great and it means I don't feel pressured into doing something I don't want to - I am so much more interested in what I'm learning.
When I visited England this year, all of the students told me how constricting the University system is there. In England, you choose your major and then apply to a certain school. For example, when applying to Oxford, and Oxford student chooses what he wants to do for the rest of his life, applies to the college he wants to get into, and then he's stuck on the track for the rest of his life. That's an extremely rigid core-curriculum and it seems almost socialist to me.
Students need the personal responsibility to choose their own classes. And just so you all know, I'm not some rich, liberal, Brown student. I'm a middle class, hardworking, Christian (I love Jesus with all my heart), the kind of guy whose second choice in colleges was Wheaton and then Moody Bible.
Anyway, those are my thoughts
25. Hannah C. said the following at 10:14 PM on Jul 25:
The thing about Thomas Aquinas College's core curriculum is that..that's all they have! EVERYONE who goes to that college takes the same courses, all the years, and they offer one degree.
In my opinion, University of Dallas offers the best core curriculum while also providing different majors!! That's why I'm at UD and not Thomas Aquinas. :)
26. Mike said the following at 8:53 AM on Jul 26:
Melissa S. -
Yeah, I took one of those "women's studies" courses in college - and I can confirm your experience about contrary points of view. Let me give just one example.
The class was discussing various theories of gender role acquisition - how we determine what our roles ought to be based on our sex. The professor got to the biological theory, which basically goes like this: Females have more investment in creating children (9 months and childbirth), so they have more interest in seeing each child do well, so that's why their traditional roles have centered around home and childrearing. Basically, women put more in, so they have more to lose, so they have a greater interest. (The theory itself isn't really important; the professor's reaction is.)
After introducing this theory, the professor said, "I don't like this theory," then started to move to the next subject. I stopped her, asking, "Why don't you like this theory?" She said, "It places women in a subordinate role." Huh? First off, why is childrearing a "subordinate" role? To a biological theorist, perpetuation of the species is extremely important - making childrearing hardly subordinate. Second, it doesn't place women anywhere; it just provides an explanation for traditional roles. (Not that I necessarily agree with it.) As I was in the middle of these explanations, one of the women in the class (the women outnumbered the men at least 3 - 1) said, "Oh, just ignore him and go on. He's only a man."
Uh huh. Analytical treatment indeed. I've not seen any evidence that "women's studies" is anything but a hatefest and breeding ground for anti-male screed. Sorry.
(Oh, and to those women who came through those classes with their opinions of men undamaged - THANK YOU!!!) :-)
27. Autumn said the following at 10:12 AM on Jul 26:
I'm headed to College of the Ozarks in the fall, and will graduate debt-free, thanks to their work program!! I must say, I'm pretty excited about that!!
28. Tom Neven said the following at 12:08 PM on Jul 26:
Christopher (#24)
I still think you misunderstand what a core curriculum is. It is not classes that can be skipped because of high school AP courses, although there might be the odd one here and there.
By definition, a core curriculum says that there is a core of knowledge that any educated person should have if he's to be be considered a well-educated, well-rounded person.
Some of that might involve lower level courses, some higher level.
The fact that someone can graduate from the vast majority of colleges today without ever having to read Shakespeare or Tolstoy, to wrestle with Kant and Hume, to understand quantum physics, tell a Renoir from a Vermeer, or Beethoven from Vivaldi is just sad.
It explains the large cultural illiteracy we have today, even among people with college degrees. And it explains why our public square had become so degraded and why our politics so coarse.
And I speak from long experience to know that only the rarest 18-year-old knows what he should study versus what he wants to study.
29. Justin said the following at 1:34 PM on Jul 26:
I love these lists, because I'm always like, "What? Who? Where? I've never heard of any of these places."
I wouldn't be surprised if half these schools were "internet" schools.
30. Jo said the following at 3:03 PM on Jul 26:
In defence of the English system (re: post 24), it's true that degrees are almost always in a single subject or split between two subjects - only distance learning courses enable you to take modules in a wide variety of subjects (as far as I know). However, this doesn't set you on track for the rest of your life. Certain careers require certain degrees of course, but no degree requires you to continue in the studied field. So a degree in medicine will probably lead you into medicine, but general degrees like history, English, business studies and the like can quite honestly lead anywhere. (As for the example of Oxford - a degree from there will get you a job pretty much anywhere!)
Also, I'm unsure of how what we learn in secondary school equates to the high school years in America. We take GCSE's at age 16 in ten different subjects (about half of which are mandatory and the rest are chosen from limited options), and then go on to take further courses in about four subjects at 18. So the specialisation is gradual, and you find out where your strengths are as you go along. By the time you go to uni, you often have a fair idea of what you want to study further, even if you don't have a definite career plan yet.
Having said all that, from what I've seen in these comments about the American system, it sounds pretty cool. I would have quite liked the chance to study other subjects while at uni (philosophy, psychology...), but I'm not sure I would have appreciated having to continue with subjects I had already gained basic qualifications in and had no interest in pursuing further (maths...). And anyway, I still have the opportunity to take evening classes or distance learning courses if I want to, or even just read up on things myself. So, I don't feel I'm less of a 'well-rounded' individual. :)
31. Loris said the following at 4:24 PM on Jul 26:
Carrie (#17),
I actually cut up my "Bryan" shirt for cleaning rags after I got married. I figured it would take way too long to explain to people who had never heard of either school if I wore it in public, and the sentiment was a little snotty for an adult to have across her chest. Just trying to humanize the enemy...I mean worthy rivals, haha.
32. Leah said the following at 8:40 PM on Jul 27:
Well, I don't think I understand what a "core curriculum" either, but I'll throw in some comments regarding the impressions I've gotten of it...
At my uni (and most in Australia, from what I can gather) most courses have core subjects and then room for some electives. HOWEVER, you will rarely find that all the courses in a uni have the same core subjects. For example, I did a Bachelor of Journalism and I have a friend who did a Bachelor of Science, and not once did we ever take the same subject, let a lone a core one. I think I have one core subject in common with those who did a Bachelor of Laws, a Bachelor of Education, and a Bachelor of Information Technology. No core subjects in common with those who did a Bachelor of Engineering or a Bachelor of Medicine.
I don't know if that means we have a core curriculum or not, but if a core curriculum = every student from every course having to do the same basic subjects, I don't know if I agree with it. I think the role of a university course is to educate you in your field, not make you a good citizen. Sure, it's great if it does that at the same time, but I don't believe that is its role. The most common core subject in our uni is a basic English one which basically covers Year 12 English. It's good, but most students should already know the stuff.
33. Loris said the following at 6:48 AM on Jul 28:
Yes Leah (#32, Core curriculum does mean that every student completes the same general education requirements before focusing on their specific discipline. At my school, the core included 2 semesters of western cultural heritage, an art/music appreciation class, 2 semesters of PE, 2 semesters of Christian Doctrine, and Intro to Philosophy, Psychology or Sociology and Literature classes. We also had to do College Algebra, English Composition and a contemporary history/global economics class.
34. Joanna said the following at 7:54 AM on Jul 28:
I have to agree with what you said about Biola..I'm currently a student there and I love it! It truly has been amazing to see how faithful the school and all its faculty, staff, and students have contributed to maintaining Biola's religious heritage.
35. Tigger said the following at 7:55 AM on Jul 28:
Well, my school didn't make the list, and I wasn't surprised, as there are so many schools in the country. But it was a great school at a rather affordable price, esp with a scholarship, with lots of opportunities to do different things while there.
However -- literature and history are important, and I like them, but they do not teach you how to "do" many things, only what to know and what to think, or if you're lucky, how to think. To be honest I learned more about EVERYTHING by picking myself up and moving across the world - myself, other people, cultures, languages, history, practical things, how to grow up, how to survive, how to rely on my self, how to ask questions, how to take risks, how to know when to stay and when to go, even how to teach. And that lasted just six months, initially.
Sometimes I really think that universities are a big racket, and after we've poured all that money into learning how to pronounce "savoir-faire" or when William the Conqueror invaded England, yet when we graduate, we don't know how to DO anything - our taxes, paint our houses, manage or avoid debt, or think critically without being closed-minded. It's a small narrow slice of it all that we study, and all the math problems in the world won't sort out what on earth those tax forms mean when I don't have money for an accountant.
As for women's studies, well, I would have been happy of one at my school. For the very same reason I liked courses in Spanish/Latin American literature or Middle Eastern politics. It teaches you that other people think differently that is not a bad thing. And it's got practicality too - if you are planning to work do something that greatly affects women, or in research, marketing, advertising, or politics, well, you need to know as much as you can.
And remember, these schools that have been listed are still just opinions, too. The only way to reasonably certify something is better than another thing is to do both of them, and how many of us have attended two or more universities solely for research purposes?
36. Christopher Unseth said the following at 8:03 PM on Jul 28:
I know what you're saying Tom (28) and after some thought, I concede, many 18 year olds don't know what they want to do with their lives. And I also agree with Jo (30) on her comment where I misspoke about the English system. Even here in America, a small percentage of people actually use the degree in which they majored. Not very many people are actually pigeon-holed when it comes to employment by their college degree.
But, let's look at the suspect college, itself. Without a core curriculum, Brown still ranks top five in students getting into their top 3 law school and percentage of students going into med school.
And Tom, I know you said that the fact that people don't even know how to paint their own houses is a backward step in humanity, but I would tend to disagree. I could argue that the Romans probably didn't know how to program using XHTML or CSS, the Hittites didn't know how DC and AC work, and the Turks couldn't explain why air planes can be airborne. We live in a global community and with the larger community comes greater and greater specialization.
Lastly, I would like to say that my brother and I both agree, the American education is a shambles. If anyone is wrong in this, it is because education, in general, just isn't cutting it here in America.
Core or no core, we need to do something about how we learn and how we apply our knowledge.
37. Marci said the following at 5:48 AM on Jul 30:
Melissa(23) and Mike(26):
Yeah....the experiences you describe were not common in my classes. I saw this type of thing happen only once; most of the other profs wanted to hear other perspectives because they beilieved this was how students learned, and then did not then shoot down students who disagreed with their views.
And honestly, not all feminism is the same. I had many professors who said that choice was important, and that there was nothing wrong with a woman being a stay at home mother and breastfeeding her infants or the rest of it as long as that was what she wanted to do. Nor were women who chose this subtly presented as "unenlightened" or "oppressed." This perspective is lots more liberating than it was in the past, where to be feminist one should never marry or have kids.
So I'd like to suggest some things have changed (although there are always a few bad apples), and encourage other people to still try women's studies courses.
From my experience, they were are quite different in their approaches; I was always learning something new. Perhaps one's experience also depends on which school the course was taken at? I didn't go to Christian universities, but even the smaller university I went to (Wilfrid Laurier) and the university I now attend for graduate studies (the university of Toronto) both approached gender studies with an emphasis on women having choice....so I can't even account for teaching differences based on whether it was a research driven school or not....
38. Moriah said the following at 10:27 PM on Jul 30:
I think that my university deserves a spot on the list, as we were recently awarded top in the nation for community service. Go Elon!