Looks Important, but Not Singular
by Candice Watters on 07/29/2008 at 11:45 AM
For those readers who now think I'm of the mind that looks don't matter (see the comments on Another Reason to Marry Young), you might be surprised to read what I've said in the past about this subject.
Things like:
Beauty is not sinful. God made it. Many of the women in the Old Testament were singled out for their physical appearance. Sarah and Rebekah were so beautiful that their husbands feared they might be killed by other powerful, lustful men. Esther's beauty had everything to do with why King Xerxes chose her among all the virgins and Abigail's beauty surely played a role in staying David's murderous hand. ... my government professor from graduate school used to say, "the Old Testament shows how beauty plays a key role in diplomacy."
And,
Yes, there are lots of Christian women who struggle with the problem of overemphasis on beauty. But ... others fall into the category of "mismanagement" or neglect. And ... this has a profound effect on [their] growing desire for marriage and family.
More than most women, most men are stimulated, animated and activated by what they see. It's hard for women to fully grasp what this means because it's not our nature to be equally aroused by the images around us. We're more relational.
Of course I didn't leave it at that. There's too much in Scripture about how focusing on outward appearances alone lead to a host of troubles for men and women alike.
Yes, looks matter. But they're not the whole story. Read all about it here: Not Enough Beauty.
1. Jonathan said the following at 12:47 PM on Jul 29:
Amen! And to the guys, you shouldn't mismanage your physical appearance either. Watch what you eat and exercise.
2. Exchurchmouse said the following at 12:54 PM on Jul 29:
Candice - Did you write this article to clear your name or clarify your point about the cosmetic surgery article?
3. obewan said the following at 1:53 PM on Jul 29:
My mom always said, "pretty is as pretty does". I found that to be true in my dating experience. I dated only a couple of women who were drop dead gorgeous. One of them had a miserable personality. On the other hand, I fell in love once with a rubenesque (large but not 'fat') woman and one tomboy who was a best friend.
4. Mike said the following at 2:39 PM on Jul 29:
Excellent, Candice. It is a stewardship issue - the body is the temple, no? And it also speaks volumes about what you think not only of yourself, but of the man you want to attract: Are you willing to go to a little effort for his sake?
(Oh, and Jonathan is spot on, too...for the same reasons.)
5. AnonInTheChurch said the following at 2:43 PM on Jul 29:
Candice - Thank you so much for this article! I've spent time at every place on the beauty pendulum - overweight and really fit, overly frumpy and overly fancy. Now, in my late thirties, I truly am beginning to understand what Prov31 means in calling beauty deceitful and fleeting! I thinnk sometimes the church gets confused and forgets that beauty can be a means to an end - the real issue is which end. The world sees beauty as a means to power, acceptance and self-worth. The Christian can view beauty as a means to point to its' Creator as a manifestation of His goodness! Recently, after several YEARS of prayer and seeking counsel from my pastor and other godly mentors, I underwent plastic surgery to restore my body after several rounds of weightgain and loss and several children had left it noticeably, significantly "disarranged." My motive in having it done was to bless my husband, and to be able have more, and even more modest, clothing options. It was NOT to get more noticed by anyone else, gain more popularity, job opportunities, or some futile effort to look 19 forever. I believe my motives and expectations were God-honoring, and my only regret is falling into the world's trap of being too open about it to my Christian girlfriends, once I felt free to do it. They are the ones who judged my motives, and even my salvation, the most harshly. I now pursue and contemplate the development of my inside more and am thankful the the hardest surgery has already been done through Christ's sacrifice for my sins.
6. BDB said the following at 2:46 PM on Jul 29:
At first, I was confused by this post...I just realized that some people are equating cosmetic surgery with "beauty."
May I direct your attention to a recent GEICO commercial featuring Joan Rivers...
7. Craig M. said the following at 3:10 PM on Jul 29:
Nicely put; good sense of balance, both by the author and all the commenters so far. A little common sense goes a long way.
8. Candice Watters said the following at 4:17 PM on Jul 29:
As I said in comment #125 on "Another Reason to Marry Young":
As to what Boundless really thinks about looks and if they're a legitimate criteria for mate selection (especially by men), stay tuned for a new blog post. This one's getting too long to follow.
9. Jonathan said the following at 5:52 PM on Jul 29:
@poster 4
Thanks. I think I have a right to say that as I used to weigh 350lbs. I now weight 204. I can't seem to lose the last 40. But at least I am still running. :D
10. Jam said the following at 6:07 PM on Jul 29:
This is such a loaded issue. I feel literally clenched up inside. How can a woman really get to the place where she takes care of herself for the right reason? I always feel a tremendous amount pressure to be the physical specimen that "everyone" approves of, especially guys or else I'm sunk. Sometimes it's so overwhelming the only way I can manage it is to drop out of the race for an ideal I can never meet, but apparently this also consigns me to Tragic Spinsterhood. There is comfort in the idea that God looks not on the outward appearance, but God won't come down out of heaven and marry me. How can a woman deal with all this pressure? You know, besides with an eating disorder?
11. Josh said the following at 7:44 PM on Jul 29:
Too fat. Too thin. Too tall. Too short...the list goes on and on. I personally think its sad how people put stipulations on loving someone. Why do people treat eachother so horribly?
12. Becky said the following at 8:11 PM on Jul 29:
I think my biggest issue issue with "beauty" is the way it varies across cultures...Indians consider fair skin beautiful while Americans value being tan. Women aren't allowed to simply relax being a healthy, well cared for version of themselves. There's this constant agony over being rail-thin, freckled, full figured, short, a nose that's too big, and a gazillion other ambiguous things. Women weren't all meant to fit into one mold, and if I see one more bronzed, blue eyed, long haired blond Barbie-look alike on the cover of a magazine, I'm going to scream.
It's not the importance of beauty that bothers me...it's the homogenization. Because I truly believe that all women are created in the image of God and are beautiful in unique, individual ways that culture often fails to appreciate.
13. Amir Larijani said the following at 8:44 PM on Jul 29:
As a gym rat, I can honestly say that the issue of bodily stewardship is hardly all on one sex.
In fact, my experiences tend to reflect the stats I've seen: men and women are about equal in terms of bodily health, and obesity is an issue on both sides.
I don't know, however, how this breaks down among singles. But I cannot say that I've seen a case where it's all on one sex.
I will say this much: as you get older, weight maintenance gets more difficult. And it seems a lot tougher on the ladies.
Personally, I tend to cut the ladies some slack: I think it's cool for them to have curves; bodily stewardship need not require super-athletic levels of fitness.
In fact, unless you are training for athletic events that require such high levels of fitness, I discourage women from pursuing it: most women I've known who are that thin have also had monumental struggles with eating disorders.
As a former marathoner, I've seen the types. I nearly went broke trying to help one recover from a nasty bout with bulimia.
And--trust me--when your body fat gets that low and you stop menstruating, your bones will pay a very dear price as you get older.
14. Lindsay said the following at 12:10 AM on Jul 30:
Speaking of looks,how men present themselves affects women to a certain degree. It irritates me when guys don't seem to have the self-respect to practice personal hygeine. PLEASE PLEASE get your hair cut and shave or trim your facial hair!! This seems especially to be a problem for guys in college. For me as a girl it speaks VOLUMES about a guy who is either too lazy to do the above or is immature and still needs his momma to tell him to get a haircut.
15. Kate said the following at 8:34 AM on Jul 30:
This is a really tricky and interesting subject. I am looking forward to the continued discussion and I probably should read through more of the comments on the plastic surgery post...
It's funny because I never really felt like I was beautiful or believed it until I experienced the regard my fiance has for me over time, which also corresponds with my own developing maturity as a woman. He sees me as beautiful physically yes, but not in way that is saying "yes you look like such-and-such famous actresses in the magazines." He has a more realistic defintion of what is beautiful, and I know I am pretty blessed to have found a man with this point of view! I think his views about how "pretty" I am are also connected with how "valuable" I am though, because he's looking at me in a more Proverbs 31 sense. I am of course NOT trying to say I'm just like the Proverbs 31 woman!
Though I knew before that a lot of what is presented as beauty in our media is false I guess I was believing it anyway. Maybe it was more due to my own insecurity about what I had to offer to a mate (beauty, affection and a bubbly personality?). Perhaps I knew inside that it wasn't quite enough, and even my definitions and understanding of these things were pretty shallow and media-based. I was much less mature then and didn't have all the practical skills and experiences like what are outlined in the Proverbs 31 thing.
Funny thing is, that once I'm getting a more firmer grasp on these Proverbs 31 things and working on them as things I can offer and the physical beauty piece does not matter as much anymore... I now really feel like I am pretty (aka valuable?) and can believe others see me that way.
16. Shannon said the following at 8:37 AM on Jul 30:
My husband had four things he looked for in a woman - the first three centered around her character and her relationship to Christ, and the fourth related to her beauty, however, he added, he had found that when a woman exhibited the first three, beauty very naturally followed.
I have always taken care of myself, although I have had period of being overweight or other things, and while my husband is male and is activated by what he sees, what amazes me is how he will tell me I'm beautiful after a day with no chance to do my hair or fix my makeup and my shirt is covered with remnants of our son's lunch.
As a side note, we know several christian men who are so focused on looks that they by-pass pretty Christian girls because they don't look like models. One girl is getting married soon because the guy recognized true beauty - she takes very good care of herself, she just isn't Angelina Jolie (who is??) - but he saw her character...
Moral - christian men don't need to be basing their ideas of beauty on that of the world. So... I'm going to get off my soap box now.
17. mary kate said the following at 9:28 AM on Jul 30:
lol @ lindsay, i kinda like the guys with shaggy hair. :) to each her own.
18. Jen said the following at 9:36 AM on Jul 30:
Agree with Jam #10! Can you write an article about the other side of the coin--how to cope with the overwhelming pressures on women to be beautiful and thin? Many, many women are enslaved to this as an idol. spend hours each day working on their appearance, even consider plastic surgery. What we read here seems to indicate that if we're not beautiful, men won't give us a chance, so it just feeds the fear.
Can boundless address this in an article please?
19. Craig M. said the following at 9:40 AM on Jul 30:
But Lindsday, those unkempt guys are providing a valuable service! By being so repulsive, they make those of us who know how to make the barest personal effort seem far, far more attractive by comparison...isn't that a worthy enterprise?
20. obewan said the following at 9:53 AM on Jul 30:
Amen to Amir's comment. For sure age has a big impact. The simple fact is that if a person gains 1 lb a month, over 10 years that really adds up. It does not take a lot of overeating to gain 1 lb. Fortunately, I have been losing 1 lb a month for the past year and am currently close to my ideal weight.
21. Mike said the following at 10:54 AM on Jul 30:
Jen (#18) -
What's "beautiful" in your mind? Cover of Cosmo? Being 20-something with a perfect 36-22-34 figure? Having flawless teeth with high cheekbones?
Speaking for myself, I don't require anything of the sort.
I said on another post: I personally have found a bewildering variety of physical types attractive. That includes some who other guys didn't think were. And a lot of them had plenty of flaws. Just like me. So, take heart. At least some of us aren't ardent perfectionists who won't settle for anything less than Angelina Jolie.
(Although, truth be told, she really doesn't do much for me...) :-)
22. Kelly said the following at 11:10 AM on Jul 30:
I know the world has certainly messed up my thinking re: beauty! I dropped a stack of weight over the last couple of weeks (illness) and I was a size 8(US)/ 10(UK/Aus) to start with.
My clothes are all loose at the moment and my brain keeps thinking, "Awesome, I'm so thin!"
23. Tara said the following at 11:58 AM on Jul 30:
My own experience pretty much mirrors that of Kate in Comment #15. I've never really regarded myself as physically attractive. I've been called "ugly" to my face by peers at school and even complete strangers as recently as a year ago. But my fiance keeps telling me I am pretty so now I'm starting to believe it! Before we started dating I started to take care of myself with portion control as I ate, moderate exercise, doing my hair, wearing makeup (only a little because I still hate the stuff, LOL) and finding clothes that actually flattered my body (no more oversized T-shirts and baggy hoodies). I never did reach my ideal weight or fitness level but I'm healtheir and happier and if you feel that way you're bound to attract notice. And guys, I do think it's important to be forgiving on the weight issue. Some of us have hormonal imbalances that make weight loss nearly impossible and after having several children it's inevitable that the majority of us won't go back to our original size. Beauty varies with age just as it does with the individual. (I agree with whoever said beauty as defined by the media is too constrained and monotanous.)
It's funny how I equate feeling pretty with being valued and I do think it's more than just the fault of society. Knowing that at least one man finds me physically attractive gives me such a feeling of assurance and allows me to stop worrying about my looks...as much. LOL
And I don't think Boundless or any reasonable Christian guy is asking us ladies to be replicas of the manufactured-looking celebrities in magazines. Just put in the effort to let others know that you think you're worth looking at, because...guess what...you are! Now I view my efforts as an act of love to my fiance because having such a "beautiful" fiance makes him feel blessed by God and anything that bring him closer to our Creator is a good thing in my mind.
24. farmer Tom said the following at 12:23 PM on Jul 30:
I'm home from work with a serious sinus infection, killing time reading all the comments on this and the previous post on this topic. I've refrained from commenting because usually my comments create an immediate negative reaction. I sincerely hope that I can make my point without that happening.
Many of the ladies seem to be confused about what true beauty is all about. If you are taking your ideas from Hollyweird and or the womens magazines it is not surprising.
To the editors, I am going to mention body parts, this is not an attempt to be crude, rather an illustration of why women need to be careful where they get their ideas of beauty from.
Let's start at the top. Many of you seem to take the advice of the womens magazines that suggest a new shorter hairstyle will help create a new you. Candice mentions this in her article, Not Enough Beauty . I quote her:
Yes, my heart and character is a key part of what attracted Steve, but I'd be omitting half the story if I didn't also say that as I grew my severe, short and sassy haircut out to a more feminine length, he began to find me more attractive.
God's Word is the standard we must follow. I Corinthians 11:14-15: 14 Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?
15 But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering.
You want to attract a man, have a hairstyle that does not look like a man's. Long hair is sexy. We went to a wedding last weekend, there were older women at that wedding with butch hair cuts shorter than the man they were with, that is truly appalling and in my opinion disobedient to Scripture.
Your face. For many of you, you wear too much makeup. I know the cosmetics industry is a multi, multi billion dollar industry, but it's very likely that you need very little of what they are selling. If you need to cover up a blemish, fine. If you're putting on so much stuff that it's impossible for us to make you blush cause we can't see your skin, ease off a little bit. Raccoon eyes are a real turn off; that's what the movie stars do when their are under the stage lights. In real life it just makes you look like a tramp.
Your eyes. I can honestly say that I could care less what color eyes a woman has. Trying to change the color with contacts is silly. God make them that color, be content with that. Now if you're half-blind (a result of the fall), be careful how you go about remedying the problem. Some of you would look better with glasses than with the contacts. I personally like to hide my face behind the glasses. Otherwise my face looks like a big round ball.
At the wedding was a girl with a rather large nose. Maybe wearing glasses instead of contacts, would help her minimize her distinguished feature.
Smile. If you have crooked teeth, smile. If you're having a bad day, smile. There is nothing beautiful about a perpetual scowl. Lots of us have crooked teeth, keep them clean, and try not to worry about it. There are plenty of people who are married and have bad teeth.
Now, I'm treading on thin ice here, but, this needs to be said. There is no perfect chest size. Some guys like more, some less, some, no I'd say most, notice this first. If he's so shallow that he won't be interested in you because the size doesn't meet his personal criteria, you don't want to know him anyway. Needless to say, quit being concerned over whether yours are the rights size, it really doesn't matter.
Your stomach. Now, I must admit that I struggle with this one myself. I need to reduce the size of my stomach. Too much soda pop. Ladies, if your stomach is nearly the same size as the measurement above it, it's too big. God did not create the female form to look like a tree. That's partly why we like the part above because it should be clearly defined from the stomach.
Hips, should be larger than the stomach, but not excessively larger than the breast line. Stick figures are a real turn off in this area. Again, God did not intend for you to look like a stick. On the other hand, if there is one area where women in our culture seem to carry excess weight it's in this area. Hips that keep moving long after you stop walking are gross.
Legs are for moving your body around. If they look as though you never move, cause there are no muscles to be seen there, guess what. That's bad news. Muscular, toned legs are the ideal. My wife worried about her veins showing. I never notice, because her legs are nice and toned.
Feet. I've heard more than one woman complain about the size of her feet. At least for me I almost never notice, unless its like a friend whose were child size shoes. Really, feet are something that should not be that big a deal.
Now, I was very specific. I'm sure I offended some of you, I'm sorry. But, really, if you would simply strive to maintain a reasonable appearance, no extremes of large or small, not too much paint and powder, just enough to hide some minor imperfections, there really is no one out there that hideous, that ugly if a little care is taken.
I'm no movie star by any means, and I never dated any movies stars either, and that may be part of the problem. If you are basing your standards of beauty off the few, who make up the Hollyweird/model circles, both male and female, then you have a distorted view of yourself and of your potential mate.
Somewhere in this thread, or the related one, someone mentioned Demi Moore and Ashton Kutcher? as an example of an older woman with a younger man. I laughed out loud. First, there are very few women on the face of the planet who are at Demi Moore's level on the beauty scale. BTW she spends hours in the gym to maintain that ook. Yet, she lived the life of a tramp for years before she married Bruce Willis, also a movie star; then she destroyed her marriage to him, to then shack up with a young mindless stud. From everything I've read Kutcher has the IQ of a rock. So this is what Christian women are patterning their hopes and dreams on, is that it? You think that you look like Demi Moore, and you would gladly throw away a marriage to Bruce Willis for some hot young empty head. No wonder you are having trouble finding a man. I'm betting you don't look like Demi, and that there aren't any Christian guys as vacuous as Ashton.
25. farmer Tom said the following at 12:29 PM on Jul 30:
Angelina Jolie.
(Although, truth be told, she really doesn't do much for me...) :-)
I'll second that.
26. BDB said the following at 1:01 PM on Jul 30:
Lindsay (#14) and mary kate (#17) bring up hair, which raises an interesting point.
Everyone needs to do the best they can with what they have. So, ponder for a moment the guys who lose half their hair in their 20's, and find that what's left is turning gray in their 30's.
Granted, paired with a business suit, half a head of gray hair can be useful. I'm watching an ad on TV right now where the spokesperson is a balding guy in a suit with wire-rim glasses. He looks like someone you'd trust for investment advice.
But, for the women reading this, how do you respond to the balding guy vs. the guy who shaves his head? They could be the same age, you know. Do you respond more favorably to one of those looks? If so, why?
27. Tigger said the following at 1:34 PM on Jul 30:
Ah, my very wise and late grandmother used to say that beauty is in the eye of the beholder. It really just depends on whatever the beholder is looking for. No one can help it if you aren't what someone else is looking for, and why are we measuring ourselves against what others think anyway?
The best way to enhance yourself is character and personality. Taking care of yourself, within reason, also shows that you are capable and responsible, and that health (which is the real reason to be in a decent weight range; barring accidents, it can certainly help you have a longer and better quality lief) is important. And it is.
As for the guys, don't worry if you don't shave or have long hair. Some of us girls like scruffy guys with beards (as long as you're clean!). I certainly do like that type! Besides if a guy can't sweep me off onto a white horse, well, a Harley will do just fine...
It's what you have to say that's important, for the guys and the girls. And we say a lot with our words, but also with out appearance without ever uttering a word. I think that's the point of the post.
Sometimes we all just overthink this, don't we? :)
28. Tami said the following at 1:54 PM on Jul 30:
BDB (26) -- Do you mean the guys who shave their heads but *aren't* balding, or the guys who shave their heads to make the rest of their hair "match" the receding hairline?
If it's the latter... well, I prefer the "shave it all to match" look to the "if I grow out what's there, no one will notice the bald patch" look. I think the "I maintain what's there" look is well groomed as well.
I won't lie -- I like hair. I'm not into shaved heads. But I wouldn't rule out a good guy just because he was losing his hair.
29. mary kate said the following at 2:15 PM on Jul 30:
ahhh, farmer tom. you are nothing if not opinionated. to quote tigger, "Sometimes we all just overthink this, don't we?"
oh, as far as "God did not intend for you to look like a stick," i'll have to disagree... i'm 6'1" and i look like a stick. i have for years (29 to be exact) and will for years, probably at least until i have kids if not beyond that.
god intended us to look like all kinds of things... but mostly he intended us to look more like christ.
i could write more on this but don't have the energy. likes/dislikes are such a personal thing. true, most guys like longer hair on women, but not all do. most guys like women with some curves, but not all do.
(in college it used to drive me nuts because all the christian guys would chase after the 5'2" petite quiet blonde girls. it took me a while to realize, 'who cares?' i don't want a guy who only wants a 5'2" tiny blonde petite girl. i want a guy who wants a tall skinny arty hipster girl, who isn't always so good at being quiet, but is great at welcoming people and making friends.)
30. Louise, 42 said the following at 2:18 PM on Jul 30:
Comment 24,
What is wrong with "spending hours at the gym" in order to keep oneself healthy and fit?
I spend six hours a week at my gym!
Since I eat small meals I am approximately twenty pounds underweight for my height.
I rarely wear makeup and since I do not have a "defect" I would never consider plastic surgery.
And what is this stuff about vision problems being the result of "the fall?"
31. Amir Larijani said the following at 2:20 PM on Jul 30:
Good point about hair, BDB. I have all my hair, but I keep a buzz cut for reasons of personal comfort.
I could care less if I go bald, though. If the ladies don't like a man who is aerodynamic, that's their loss. LOL
32. Lauren said the following at 3:22 PM on Jul 30:
BDB (#26)
My future hubby is 26 and is already starting to go bald. He also has a few very stubborn gray hairs in his beard and up his nose(I know too much information).
But...I love him and think that he is gorgeous! I also think that he will look wonderful when he does finally shave off all of his hair. He has two uncles that are bald and they are very handsome.
It also doesn't hurt that he loves the Lord, loves his family and friends, and loves me. He is a hard working and a wonderful leader. He is honest, smart, funny, and caring.
So you see, when everything is working together a little less hair on the top of your head is not that big of a deal.
33. Shandra said the following at 3:28 PM on Jul 30:
While I do agree that a man will possibly be attracted to a woman with certain features (ex. longer hair and such and such and so on...I mean...haven't some African American women added on extensions to please men?...Don't worry...I'm black)...I believe that what's behind a woman doing a certain thing to improve herself is what should be taken into account.
If she's changing herself first and foremost for men and to hopefully be attracted to a man...then she will either get or not get what she thinks she wants...the MAN.
In the end...does she love herself behind the new doo and make-up?...or is she the chick weeping, because she is still rejected even though she has physically changed.
I'm not saying...don't change. By all means...women and men should get themselves together: cut your toenails...brush your teeth. For others sake? YES. For others sake first? NO. Then for who's sake first I wonder???
But...ask yourself why you are doing it.
While men are awesome and that's who we have relationships with on this earth...they should only be secondary in our attempt to be changed.
God is our first love. He should be the reason we change...all else should follow.
Isn't there something in the bible about delighting yourself in the Lord and he will give you the desires of your heart?
I don't believe on this earth women will ever be able to escape the pressure of the Hollywood images of beauty with all of our restroom primping not daring to go out into the hall--until we're as good as we're gonna get--where a bunch of hotties are standing...but we weren't put on this earth to sit down...but to run a race.
We'd better surround ourselves with brothers and sisters who ALWAYS point us toward God rather than get caught up in arguments or discussions that often involve jumbled statistics and leave people hopeless.
For example, if I'm mad about what someone did...instead of going to people who I know are going to fuel my anger...I go to people who are going to point me toward God...what he has sad.
34. BDB said the following at 4:11 PM on Jul 30:
Tami (#28) wrote:
>>"if I grow out what's there, no one will notice the bald patch" look.<<
How about the, "If I grow it out, I'll look like Ben Franklin" look...
35. farmer Tom said the following at 4:40 PM on Jul 30:
And what is this stuff about vision problems being the result of "the fall?"
maybe you think Adam and Eve had to wear glasses????
Failing or faulty eyesite and or blindness are a result of the fallen world caused by Adams sin, got it?
36. Tami said the following at 5:35 PM on Jul 30:
That's an apt description too, BDB (34). :)
37. Jo said the following at 12:48 AM on Jul 31:
Post 12 - cultural differences are a really good point. I work with a couple of African ladies and one day they were telling me approvingly that I'd put on weight and was "becoming a woman". Which didn't offend me at all but did confuse me somewhat as my weight has barely changed for the last decade.
Anyway, my point is that to them, this was a huge compliment, whereas gaining weight is usually not considered a good thing in 'Western' culture.
We do all have our own shape. I for example am small, and at the lower end of average weight for my height - but I'll never have a flat stomach. It just isn't the way I'm made. There's virtually no fat there, but it sticks out anyway. :) Happily though, it seems to only be me who notices that...
38. Jam said the following at 1:25 AM on Jul 31:
Shandra! (Comment 33)
Sister, great wisdom! Thank you for pointing to the Lord! Anything else is insanse and so easy to get caught up in!
39. SavvyD said the following at 4:46 AM on Jul 31:
I have dated a wide variety of physical types. Some with alot of curly hair, wavy hair, blond, balding, greying, all grey, shaved. Facial hair--bearded, clean shaven, goateed. Blue eyes, brown eyes, green eyes, black eyes. Caucasian, Latino, Asian. Body types--tall and slender, short and port and everything in between. What really matters is what's on the inside. Character speaks volumes.
I had a guy ask me once if I liked what I saw when I met him. I told him, yes, but I didn't know if we had anything to talk about.
40. Kelly said the following at 8:04 AM on Jul 31:
Shandra said: "In the end...does she love herself behind the new doo and make-up?...or is she the chick weeping, because she is still rejected even though she has physically changed."
I'm a real-life example of this - these days I do actually have all of the qualities that Farmer Tom listed as desirable-for-a-woman.
I wasn't ugly beforehand, but 'ordinary', with short hair and baggy clothes. I'm much more girly these days and I do love it. Yes, I changed in hopes of getting a husband, but changing my exterior gave me such a boost of confidence.
This was all several years ago but I am tuly happy with how I look, and in addition, there's nothing I can really 'blame' for being single. It's a good place to be in. :)
41. Sarah P. said the following at 9:25 AM on Jul 31:
Farmer Tom (#24): *smmrrph* HAHAHAHAHA!!! I don't know if that's the reaction you intended, but that's what came out when I read your post. I'm not sure why. :D
Shandra (#33): Amen, girl! It's so hard to reorient ourselves, but this is the absolute truth that I am trying to grow solid in as well. God made us a certain way, and He does not require us to be any other way in order to earn His love. He asks us to personal excellence. In the parable of the talents, He didn't require the servant with one talent to come back with ten. He only wanted him to do the best he could with what he had.
Personally, I believe that all disciplines, both internal and external, walk hand in hand. The healthier my body is, the easier it is for me to focus on God. It stands to reason that I have a duty to maintain my body, so much as catastrophic illness and other constraints allow.
Oh, and Farmer Tom, many of us women are just built funny in some way or another. Weight training with actual, heavy weights can rectify that to some extent, but there is definitely a difficult learning curve to weights, especially for women. I do believe that almost every woman, no matter her shape, can craft a beautiful body with the help of healthy eating and weight training. It will be beautiful, because it will be her best.
I am currently beginning a personal, in-depth study of what beauty is. This is my current definition: "Beauty is conformation to the perfect wisdom and will of God." All those things that stand in the way of such conformation both on the inside and outside - shyness (fear of man), addictions such as overeating or anything else - are all areas that we can work on with God's grace. As we grow more loving and open, we grow more in conformity and more beautiful, all our lives.
obewan, congrats on your weight loss.
42. Louise 42 said the following at 9:40 AM on Jul 31:
Comment 35,
Yeah I "got it" all right.
I "got it" that it is literally impossible for you to answer a question in a polite manner.
Have a nice day, sir, and it is my utter and sincere hope that once the price of gas begins to decrease, your short temper will decrease as well.
:)
Louise
43. Loris said the following at 9:53 AM on Jul 31:
I absolutely agree with Shandra about the misery that changing yourself to what you think a man wants can bring. When I first married, my husband in his immaturity sometimes compared me to his previous girlfriend. She had long, frizzy hair, a flat chest, narrower shoulders and larger hips and rear than I have. My hair hits my shoulders and turns into that vacillating toddler eyeing the second step at the wading pool. When I stand up straight, my bust resembles the prow of a battleship, and my hips and rear are slim. Could not have been more opposite. And of course I took his words to heart and made myself miserable. The only thing I could change was to try to grow my hair out, which looked terrible and only reinforced how unlike HER I was. What a difference time makes! As his love for me grew, so did his appreciation of my body. He loves to ruffle my short, wavy hair and compliments whatever part of me is within grabbing range. Nothing changed but his perception. I’ve always been sturdily built and busty. I inherited my father’s muscular, top-heavy build. I’ve always had hair shoulder-length or shorter because I inherited my mother’s slow-growing, fine-textured hair.
But my perception of myself has changed too. This year I began taking Tae Kwon Do lessons because I wanted some exercise. Learning how to actually use my body instead of having my soul lug it around (Yes, that’s nice and Gnostic) has awakened a new appreciation for it. Yes, I’m taller, broader, and stronger than many women. Big deal. I’m not fat, nor do I have trouble finding stylish clothes, so I have no reason to complain there. So I’ll never be called small and dainty. So what? My body builds muscle quickly and right now I have better biceps than two of the young men my age in the Tae Kwon Do class. Talk about an ego boost! I wasted a lot of time whining that my body wasn’t the norm when I should have been finding out what it could do and doing it. It’s quite silly to assume the Omnipotent Creator messed up just because a girl like me was ignored by guys in college.
I don’t think it’s helpful to give more than a general guideline of how women should look: not like a man. There is such a variety among human beings that beyond vague specifications, there is a potential for hurt feelings and inferiority complexes. I think it’s better to focus on what is the best look for each individual woman and encourage her unique femininity before God. But of course, you have to get to know her to do that. Ladies, if you think you need help in this area, find a woman at church whose looks and character you admire and ask for advice. I learned to apply makeup by asking one of my mother’s friends, a flawless older lady, to help me primp for my high school prom. She turned it into a full lesson on makeup techniques and colors. Her techniques for looking natural have never failed me yet.
Men, just keep yourselves clean, neat, in reasonably good shape, and don’t wear clothes that is obviously dated. You’ve got it easier on this one.
44. Tami said the following at 10:20 AM on Jul 31:
Wow, Loris (43), this:
"Learning how to actually use my body instead of having my soul lug it around..."
is a brilliant description, and also resonates with me... while I get exercise and take care of myself, I'm definitely more used to doing heavy "internal lifting" than physical activity. :) I find stuff like Pilates and other mind/body flexibility and strength work helpful.
45. Christina (in green) said the following at 10:36 AM on Jul 31:
BDB (A long time ago...)
you asked: But, for the women reading this, how do you respond to the balding guy vs. the guy who shaves his head?
For some reason, if a guy is balding, I find him more attractive with head completely bald...
I have no idea why. Maybe its cuz of guys with comb-overs... maybe its because of the bald top and round-bowlish look that makes him look like I'm NOT supposed to be attracted to him (cuz he looks like a monk...)
Although, I have actually found guys with excessive receding hairlines that keep the rest of their hair close cropped to actually not be all that unattractive...actually, quite the opposite.
Do keep in mind this comes from a woman whose entire male relative population has so much hair they could rival me in hair growth =p But yeah, men that are balding really aren't that bad looking - just pick a hair cut that still flatters you, rather than tries to make up for the fact the top of your head is bare...
46. BDB said the following at 4:02 PM on Jul 31:
Christina (#45) wrote:
>> (cuz he looks like a monk...)<<
Oooh...I know what I'm doing for Halloween!
47. Jam said the following at 1:29 PM on Aug 1:
I just saw this a trailer for a documentary called America The Beautiful.(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8i1kEje950) It's a treatment of ideas and standards for beauty in the media and the effects they have on men and women. It got me thinking about our discussion and the idea of not "being conformed to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of our minds" as believers. As believers are we just conforming to a worldly standard by all this focus on the outward? Fascinating stuff!
48. Chris said the following at 11:22 AM on Aug 6:
It's interesting reading all of these posts.
I used to believe all this stuff, but after watching my brother fall in love and get married, all my preconceived notioned went out the window.
He was 25 and only had 1 girlfriend in his lifetime. His "ideal" women was slim/tiny. Well his wife is 6'2" and built like a linebacker (her brothers are 6'7 and 6'8).
When love strikes everything else goes out the window.