I Miss Old People
by Motte Brown on 07/30/2008 at 9:18 AM
I used to know a lot of old people. I don't anymore. I'm not sure why. But I think it has something to do with the church I go to. The "communities" are fairly segmented by life stage. Which makes inter-generational community difficult.
Don't get me wrong though. I'm not saying our "fairly segmented" format is wrong. I've benefited greatly from the close fellowship I've developed with my peers. Still, is it what God intended for his church?
I found this portion of a Q&A with theologian J.I. Packer on Between Two Worlds that may help. Though this particular blurb is about worship styles, I think Dr. Packer's answer applies to other intentionally segmented formats within the church.
Shane Rosenthal: What do you think about a niche marketing approach that has by virtue of the different worship styles--teen pop, alternative, and adult boomer--created generational segregation?
J. I. Packer: We have separated the ages, very much to the loss of each age. In the New Testament, the Christian church is an all-age community, and in real life the experience of the family to look no further should convince us that the interaction of the ages is enriching. The principle is that generations should be mixed up in the church for the glory of God. That doesn't mean we shouldn't disciple groups of people of the same age or the same sex separately from time to time. That's a good thing to do. But for the most part, the right thing is the mixed community in which everybody is making the effort to understand and empathize with all the other people in the other age groups. Make the effort is the key phrase here. Older people tend not to make the effort to understand younger people, and younger people are actually encouraged not to make the effort to understand older people. That's a loss of a crucial Christian value in my judgment. If worship styles are so fixed that what's being offered fits the expectations, the hopes, even the prejudices, of any one of these groups as opposed to the others, I don't believe the worship style glorifies God, and some change, some reformation, some adjustment, and some enlargement of spiritual vision is really called for.
Dr. Packer says that "make the effort" is the key phrase. So individuals have the responsibility to make inter-generational community happen. What this means is that if I miss old people, it's up to me to "make the effort." But there's no getting around the fact that the way we do church will either help or hinder it.
1. obewan said the following at 9:49 AM on Jul 30:
I attend one of those mega churches where the music is very contemporary. The major audience is under mid-40's. However, the old people are not gone. I sit near a whole pew of 80 and 90 something’s. I greet them every Sunday. I am sure if more old people came they would be welcome – assuming they would be happy with the format.
I think the ones I have met may be a little more liberal when it comes to music than the typical old person. Our church does have a special ministry for seniors and they have their own service. I don't know how I feel about that, but I suppose I might prefer to be with my peers when I am that age.
My mom always tells me that the old people should be willing to move over to make room for the young people coming up. She is in her 80's, and while she does not 'like' it, she does not oppose the contemporary music in her own church because it brings in so many new people.
2. steph said the following at 10:46 AM on Jul 30:
For the last two years I've been attending a tiny church that has some age variation. We have a few couples in their 30s with small kids, one teenager, me (i'm 24), and a good crop of people over 60. And, with the exception of children's church, our church service isn't segregated (obviously, would I really want a class by myself?).
But even with this, it's important to make an effort at community, as Motte said. I grew up in a somewhat larger, but very close knit, family-like church. So everyone there kind of became adopted parents and grandparents to me. However, this was mostly due to efforts on their parts - inviting me over, making me dinner, etc. And I think I kind of expected that to continue... :) While the people here have been amazing, I've also found the importance of initiaiting things myself too.
3. Marilyn said the following at 11:11 AM on Jul 30:
The loss of older generation has happened in my old church. It was a purposeful change. They started several years ago to work at becoming "relevant" and attract more young people. Every step they took drove out increasing numbers of "old people". They gave the oldsters a token worship service to keep them feeling like they had a place, but all the while they had the plan to cut that service out too. Last fall they took that step. The seniors have been completly marginalized. The church wanted to lean on them for building up the younger believers, but did not provide *any* space for them to have *anything* that was to their liking.
It is very sad, that's all I can say. I did not object to most of the contemporary music (our new church is a Calvary Chapel which is *totally* contemporary). I did object when it became so loud it was physically painful to my ears. I know many people (even not-so-olds) objected to the pain factor.
4. Helkias said the following at 11:17 AM on Jul 30:
I love the elderly, being as I work with them but at my church most of them go to a separate shorter service- I supoose they don't have the stamina for the longer services. The few that I see and hang out with are fonts of great wisdom and character, and I do wish the younger people would appreciate them not jsu for what they can give but because we are one.
Sometimes the issue of music styles is exxagarated. I am a 34 year old who likes old songs and quiet worship as much as I like loud guitars and drums. In fact i find the old songs deeper in meaning. And in our church some of the elderly have no trouble with modern expressions of music worship.
As an aside, it's because of my concern about categorisation of groups that I decided against starting a singles group at my church as valuable as that may have been. It seemed like a good idea at the time, but the more I thought about it the less it sounded right. We have many groups as it is without much integration (imho anyway).
5. Julia said the following at 11:23 AM on Jul 30:
I just checked out the entire interview with Packer and it's great.
If you click on the link you'll be told that you need a subscription to view it. However, if you sign up for a free 30 day trial, you can access it.
6. BB said the following at 11:36 AM on Jul 30:
I think it was Capitol Hill Baptist Church that had a good format. They have segregated Sunday Schools so you can disciple those under you and be discipled by those who are older. I think they have a curriculum that spans over several years. Once completed, you can do it again and help others who are doing it for the first time.
If nothing new is under the sun and temptation is common to man, wouldn't it be useful to have some one you regularly associate with who's been through that situation at a point in their life? So much wisdom dies with the old and is never passed down in our current format.
Creating style be it community church's electric guitar or the presbyterian organ can attract new people but it can also put you in a niche and exclude others. The focus should be in my opinion be on study of the Bible and on discipleship. Only then will you be able to really understand the words, no matter how you sing or what you wear.
7. Samuel PG said the following at 2:55 PM on Jul 30:
I am glad to see some discussion going on about this. As a hopeful future church planter, I desperately want to be used to grow a church in which people of all ages join in and benefit one another, and I don't know how.
8. Rachael said the following at 8:09 PM on Jul 30:
Service and Bible studies that don't have specific age limitations are contexts conducive to intergenerational bonding. I'm not really in frequent contact with the "old old" generation, though, and there are barely any of those - like maybe fewer than a handful that attend my church. Hey --book idea for whoever wants to write a book--I'll probably never do it --- go around and interview a bunch of elderly people about whatever you want --like advice they'd like to pass down. And then...write a book. Ready...go!
9. Richard said the following at 8:47 PM on Jul 30:
It is sad that some people might leave a church because they don't fit in because of thier age.
At my church, we are lucky to have a mix of old, young, and middle age. However, in the age bracket of 22 or so to 36, there is no one except me. I feel so lonely sometimes because I am too old for the younger people but too young for the older people.
Churches in general don't do a good job reaching out to young people.
10. a sister said the following at 6:33 PM on Aug 1:
I love my church, but I miss inter-generational community too. There are mega-churches worse than ours in this respect, but it is hard to know families and older folk when we singles are placed in our own groups for fellowship. To pursue fellowship with families - even if one finds a family who cares to have you around - means you neglect time with your chronological peers which is more culturally expected.
Where are the old people who know more than I do and who are interested in counseling and helping those of us who are younger and have a long road left to travel?