Girly Men and Girls Kissing Girls … Eeek: Episode #25

I'm glad Motte has given me the podcast posts for the next two weeks. Folks, there's no telling what I may say ...

First, it is crazy warm here in Colorado, and I am wearing a dark suit. Totally lame. I went to the mall today at lunch, and let's just say I was almost incinerated in my car (black with black interior, yo). Mall confession: I returned a tank top that I had purchased for $40. Seriously. A tank top. Can anyone say "bad stewardship"? But it has been returned, so I'm back in the Lord's favor. I should probably give the $40 to the local rescue mission to fully assuage the guilt.

Anyway, I then went back to my car and discovered a nectarine on the floor. It was next to the empty cereal bowl and spoon from my mid-commute breakfast a few days ago. Good thing I saw it at midday, or there would've been nastiness after work. Does anyone else have difficulty keeping his or her life together? Please say yes.

Speaking of fruit, we kick off this week's show by discussing farmers markets. Ted goes to buy tomatoes (the red ones, as he is quick to clarify), while I get overly ambitious with roasted green chilies. I then lament the amount of produce I waste as a single person, but Candice says she wastes it, too, so I feel better immediately.

Emasculated Men – 7:19
While we're on the subject of making people feel bad, this week's roundtable addresses our culture's emasculation of men. Is it a reality? Is it also true in the Church? Who is more responsible, men or women? We refer to a video clip that most of the panel believes illustrates this. I disagree, so let the debate begin.

I Kissed a Girl – 26:34
You know you've heard the song, so don't deny it. Plugged In's Bob Waliszewski joins me for a frank discussion of how this song made it to the top of the charts and why it's in everyone's head. (Don't even think of buying cherry ChapStick.) Top 40 radio has unofficially legitimized sexual experimentation. Katy Perry first recorded as the Christian artist Katy Hudson -- her real name -- but needless to say her lyrics were nothing like this. Does this concern anyone?

Men As Providers – 34:19
In lieu of "The Hungry Years," this week we’re featuring something called "The Mentor Series," a chance to listen in as Boundless staffers talk to some of the coolest minds around. This week the team chats with Danielle Crittenden, author of What Our Mothers Didn’t Tell Us: Why Happiness Eludes the Modern Woman. She weighs in on the roles of men and women when it comes to bringin’ home the bacon (or fat-free tofu sausage, whichever you prefer).

Emotionally Married – 43:06
Candice answers a question from a listener who is "emotionally married" to a guy but isn't any closer to the altar. Is marriage or a breakup in this girl's future? Candice outlines some practical steps while trying to keep me from passing out in the studio from sheer discouragement.

Thankfully, this week's music from Nathan Clark George lifts my spirits. Often singing straight from Scripture, NCG blends his acoustic style with no-nonsense truth that convicts and encourages, sometimes simultaneously. Plus, he tools around the U.S. with his family in an RV, which is just downright cool.

Check it all out and let us know what you think. And if you’ve spent more than $15 on a tank top, feel free to confess that as well.

Comments

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1. Michelle (in the UK) said the following at 12:12 AM on Jul 11:

"Does anyone else have difficulty keeping his or her life together? Please say yes"

YES...and I'm actually a rather organized individual...but the lil' things slip...like being home from holiday for three days and all the clean laundry washed is now sitting in the suitcase again because I've not actually had a moment to put it away...

2. Loris said the following at 8:28 AM on Jul 11:

Yes, I've spent more than $15 on a tank top. Yes, it was kind of a waste because I can't wear it in public without a cami under it. Kind of defeats the purpose. But it was on sale from an expensive online store, and whenever they have something (anything) under $25, I usually get it. Stupid, I know.

3. Leann said the following at 8:46 AM on Jul 11:

Oh, my gosh. I got into my car on Tuesday and smelled the most horrid smell. I realized that the two empty and one partially empty Starbucks Power Drink cans were causing the bad milk stench. GAAAAAAG. It took me about ten minutes to find a trash can because I work in a pretty remote area (sort of top-secret but not really). I had to roll the windows down to keep from barfing.

$40 for a tank top? Seriously? I feel guilty for paying even $15 for one.

4. Becca said the following at 8:50 AM on Jul 11:

I'm excited for this week's podcast! I read What Our Mothers Didn't Tell Us and LOVED it!! Also, hitting the farmers' markets is my new goal for this summer. Yay for roasted green chilies!

PS. I have difficulty keeping my life together too. I found a whole bag of dirty lunch containers under my back seat yesterday. Yuck!

5. Rachael said the following at 9:03 AM on Jul 11:

I LOVE FARMERS' MARKETS... Too bad I don't go to them very often. So fun to see "the life" that way, though...

6. Nancy said the following at 9:11 AM on Jul 11:

Great music this week!

7. Tami said the following at 9:17 AM on Jul 11:

Lisa A, you are too much. :)

Farmers' markets -- I'm all about the fresh peaches and the heirloom tomatoes. And the bread. And the flowers. And the honey. And the piroshki. And... well, just about everything, except the guy that sits on a folding chair playing "Puff the Magic Dragon" on his acoustic guitar.

8. Ronnica said the following at 10:00 AM on Jul 11:

Katy Perry is a GREAT singer. Her songs are also quite catchy. Her lyrics...are down right disturbing. It certainly says a lot about our culture...

9. DannieA said the following at 10:02 AM on Jul 11:

Katy perry performed that song on "so you think you can dance" I think a lot of people were not happy and phoned/wrote in...including our family.

10. Rachael said the following at 10:26 AM on Jul 11:

Tami -- those "Puff the Magic Dragon" type musicians are among the best - and definitely part of the market experiencde!!! ;)

Most or all probably are way better than me ;)

I love street musicians!!!

11. Tami said the following at 10:46 AM on Jul 11:

I dunno, Lisa A, the guy at my Farmer's Market has a tin ear.

I always wonder if those dudes know any music released after "Sweet Baby James".

And if not? Maybe they could bring the electric and bust out "Cinnamon Girl" once in a while?

12. Tami said the following at 10:50 AM on Jul 11:

Weirdness! I read Rachel's post (10) as being from Lisa A. D'oh! I'm sorry!!

13. Esther said the following at 11:27 AM on Jul 11:

My "keeping life together" struggle right now is related to summer reading. I have all these books that I want to read, I'm partially through a bunch (keep starting new ones before I finish the last), but there just isn't any time, between 2 Bible studies, an evening class, and just trying to keep a solo household running. Reading a few pages before bed doesn't work either- it turns into 2 chapters, and way past bedtime!

14. .j said the following at 11:43 AM on Jul 11:

My friends and I were laughing about 'I Kissed a Girl' the other day: we said the only way it will get worse is when some "well-intentioned" Christian musician releases a "listenable" parody as "I Praised the Lord" or something.

I'm interested in listening to the podcast in a bit here, especially the part about the emasculation of men. I feel there are things adding to the problem that are much worse than the Gatorade clip...but I guess I'll just have to listen.

15. Lisa A said the following at 12:15 PM on Jul 11:

.j (#14): I am completely traumatized, because you KNOW someone is going to Christianize this song, find an accompanying Bible verse, throw it all on an animated Precious Moments background, and post it on GodTube. Ack.

16. .j said the following at 12:56 PM on Jul 11:

As far as the roundtable - the commercial didn't bug me that much, I find other things--the sitcom dad, flowery worship songs-- to be more of an issue. I'm glad the roundtable brought up representations of men/fathers/husbands in popular culture (particularly tv). A large chunk of sitcoms always starred the "idiot dad" and the wise, buffoon-tolerant mother. [Pop culture Side note - I was recently watching some old Boy Meets World episodes and was impressed that, although their father was seen making "guy mistakes", he also doles out sound advice and is a great father to his kids.]

I remember a few years ago when the whole "Boys are Stupid - Throw Rocks at Them" line got big [ironically designed by a guy if I remember right..]. I remember thinking that if someone had created a "Girls are Stupid - Throw Rocks at Them" it probably would have netted protests and a national news story.

As far as females "usurping" leadership in the church - I was reminded of a Bible story from Judges 4 during the discussion. Usually seen as a "girl power" story in the bible, we see Sisera suppressed by a woman (Jael) as Deborah prophesied because Barak was initially too frightened to do what the Lord had called him to do.

It might be worth checking out the book No More Christian Nice Guy. I initially purchased it after picking it up and reading a bit of a chapter called "Jesus the Bearded Woman." It's a great book that points out our culture's (both secular and Christian) view of masculinity and the problem with being nice instead of good.
http://tinyurl.com/6ceho9 < Link to Amazon Page

17. 'Guerite ~ BoldLion said the following at 1:14 PM on Jul 11:

Sorry that I can't listen online because I am deaf but can talk. I do wish that you do have podcast that we can read.

The reason I am writing this is because I had to laugh about Cherry Chapstick! One day with my daddy as a widower as we were going to visit our family. His lip was chapped, and he just put on the cherry chapstick. I told him that he look like that he just kissed a lady with red lipstick. He then look in the mirror and had to laughed. He wiped that off. It was so funny to see that.

I am enjoying reading this online even though I can't listen to Podcast.

May the Lord Bless You!
'Guerite ~ BoldLion

18. Jo said the following at 3:12 PM on Jul 11:

.j (#16)

I saw a wonderful parody of the 'boys are stupud' cartoon, with a very similar picture and the caption: "Blaming an entire gender for your inability to sustain an adult relationship is stupid. Throw rocks at it."

19. Boston Matt said the following at 4:32 PM on Jul 11:

Ok, so had to say something because there is no feedback from men in here! (If I missed you sorry)

I was very glad that C.S. Lewis was brought into this because "men without chest" is a perfect example of what the problem is. I also recommend Lewis' "necessity of chivalry" because he talks about hte balance between weak men vs. strong men. I think so many guys are confused on what our roles are supposed to be because so many women bite our heads off when we try to make it clear. And this is before "dating" ever takes place.

I would be interested to hear what "masculinity" is as defined by those participants in the round table. Is it only what one does? Or for that matter what one doesn't do?
How much of our definitions our own prejudices. Or maybe our own preferences?

20. Adam T. said the following at 6:16 PM on Jul 11:

In the podcast, Steve Watters sez:

I feel emasculated every time we sing a praise song

I already liked Steve, but now he's my new main man. Thumbs up, Steve-o.

21. Liz said the following at 6:29 PM on Jul 11:

I do believe that the "emasculation of men" is becoming an unfortunate reality, even in the Chirstian society. I was recently at a friends wedding, where there we're many Christian guys, some whom I know and they decided to be lame all night and didn't ask any of their sisters in Christ to dance. They need to realize that it's discouraging when our "brothers" won't even ask us to dance. They wonder why the "bad guy" always gets the girl, well it's because they at least give us the time of day. And just because you ask us to dance, doesn't mean you want to spend the rest of your life with us. Guys, it's time to start steping up the the plate once again, please. That kind of stuff didn't happen in my parents time and it's ok if you can't dance, that's what makes it more fun, let us teach you. haha

22. Lisa A said the following at 7:57 PM on Jul 11:

Adam T: Actually, that was Motte. Steve loves a good praise song, "Pass It On" and "Friend of God" being at the top of the list.

Ok, just kidding. Steve probably turns his nose up at praise music, too. A delicate question: Are you ok with Motte and Steve sharing the title of "Main Man"? Really, it would keep things from getting ugly on our end...egos, you know. :)

23. BDB said the following at 9:12 PM on Jul 11:

Liz (#21) wrote:

>>That kind of stuff didn't happen in my parents time and it's ok if you can't dance, that's what makes it more fun, let us teach you. haha<<

Ya know, one day I realized that one of the reasons I liked the weddings for each of my two best friends, it was because neither of them had alcohol or dancing at the reception...and only one of the weddings was Baptist!

24. BDB said the following at 9:48 PM on Jul 11:

Speaking of Christian Masculinity, when the Boundless team is done deconstructing The Shack, could they deconstructWild at Heart?

I've often wondered about the theology of Braveheart as used in the text...

25. Don said the following at 11:09 PM on Jul 11:

Here are my thoughts on the roundtable discussion about the emasculation of men.

Regarding the video clip, it didn't look like a 12 year old girl to me, especially during the replay where it is slowed down. Not that it really matters, it's just a commercial.

Here's what I've noticed that no one really pointed out in the discussion about men on televison sitcoms, and it applies to commercials as well, it's not just men that look dumb or bafoonish, it's middle class white men that are portrayed that way. I was discussing this with my boss at work one day, and we decided that the reason that this is so is because white men are the only "safe" group. If you make the woman look dumb, then you have people calling it sexist. If you have anyone of a different ethnicity being dumb, you have people calling it racist. White men are just forced to sit there and take these stupid stereotypes. Maybe the media should try harder to reenfoce the equality that everyone is talking about rather than making jokes at one particular group's expense.

I acknowledge that the above paragraph is a generalization, and since I do not watch most sitcoms there may be some examples of non-white men that are played the same way that I am not aware of, but really it seems the majority of these ideas are as I mentioned.

Also, Jo from post 18, I loved that parody. I laughed out loud when I read about that. So true.

26. Sylvia said the following at 11:11 PM on Jul 11:

#20
Ok, even *I* feel emasculated singing some of those praise songs! Ok, no, that's not the right word at all, huh?

Actually, they make me feel kinda sad and lonesome sometimes, like I'm singing to my teddy bear. In a world where it is so hard for a man to be a man, where so many children are without fathers, an women in general, not to mention mothers are without husbands, I think that a diet of feminized worship songs does a disservice to women as well.

I think as much as we ladies like a mushy song now and then, it is just as vital for us to celebrate our God as a mighty fortress, a strong tower and a man of war.

Some of these "God-is-my-boyfriend" songs put a strong emphasis on love and intimacy with God, but I think it is so vital for all members of a congregation to remember what a mighty God we serve, and love, and are known by and loved by. All the mush, without the provision and protection is insufficient in a marriage between a man and a woman, and is so much less than what should be acknowledged between Christ and His church.

27. Jeremy said the following at 12:01 AM on Jul 12:

This may come across as sexist, but I suspect that the reason men tend to be perfectly accepting of criticism and mockery is because we tend to be more secure with our gender. The Gatorade ad is a perfect example of this; some women might rally around a "girl power" idea from the ad, but the fact that guys will easily recognize is that the reason it is somewhat humorous as an ad is because it is something over the top and out of the ordinary. A girl wouldn't upstage a guy in this situation ... because men are better at the sport. Every MLB baseball player is a man.

Similarly, guys tend to be fine with TV shows portraying a more controlling, smarter, more emotionally stable wife precisely because this is unusual in real life. I agree that this can create a problem in that it may create a false impression for women, but I think most men are secure enough to not care too much.

28. J.T. said the following at 2:32 AM on Jul 12:

For the record, I have never heard I Kissed a Girl, so don't stereotype us all.

29. Mike said the following at 5:59 AM on Jul 12:

Liz said (#21):

"They wonder why the 'bad guy' always gets the girl, well it's because they at least give us the time of day."

In other words, it's what Haley DiMarco said in "Marriable":

"It's not the 'bad' in the 'bad boy' that attracts the woman, it's the masculinity."

Haley and Michael DiMarco devote a whole chapter in the book about how to upgrade the Nice Guy with Bad Boy code to get some of that. :-)

But, seriously, a lot of that lack of initiative is just fear. Fear of looking foolish. Fear of rejection (and that's a big one). Fear of being misinterpreted. (I mean, he might be thinking, "What if I'm not really interested in her 'that way' but she thinks I am? That could get awkward.") Guys, just take a clue from Master Yoda:

"Anger. Fear. Aggression. The Dark Side are they."

The enemy wants us afraid. The family is one of his biggest targets, and any method he can use to damage it, he'll use. So, I found a trick that works.

When you're feeling that paralyzing fear in the pit of your stomach (and admit it - it happens), imagine the pointy-tailed so-and-so behind you. In your mind, turn around, face him, and say, "You're not welcome here. In the name of my Lord Jesus Christ, get lost!"

"Resist the devil, and he will flee from you." James 4:7

(Oh, but Liz - it's really humiliating to have to be taught to dance in a public setting. Just thought I'd throw that out there.) :-)

30. Amber said the following at 11:07 AM on Jul 12:

Boston Matt #19 brings up some interesting questions that I would also like to hear (or read) responses too:

"I would be interested to hear what "masculinity" is as defined by those participants in the round table. Is it only what one does? Or for that matter what one doesn't do?
How much of our definitions our own prejudices. Or maybe our own preferences?"

31. R said the following at 11:22 AM on Jul 12:

Liz (21) says

They need to realize that it's discouraging when our "brothers" won't even ask us to dance.

Liz that is a huge leap to say that a guy that doesn't ask a sister to dance is emasculated! (Gee Boundless, must we have more male-bashing?)

Have you considered these brothers are being quite godly & manly in the behavior with these ladies? They probably desire to "guard your heart" so as to not to mislead you into thinking something that is not there. This way these brothers' intention are always clear.

They wonder why the "bad guy" always gets the girl, well it's because they at least give us the time of day.

Liz, you might want to rethink this. If the "bad guy" is getting the girl, then the girl must have said "yes". If the girl has said "yes" to this nominal or non-believer bad guy, then her faith is probably just the same. Christian guys want mature godly women, not compromisers and settlers. Thus, this might be the real reason these women are not being asked out! (And boundless women wonder why Christian guys like David Wheaton must find it hard to find a godly wife.)

32. Rachael said the following at 11:58 AM on Jul 12:

:) about the weddings (21, 23). I'm not into dancing or alcohol either. Perhaps I'll enjoy dancing one day, but, I might not end up wanting it at my wedding...but then again I'm not into elaborate weddings either. If the wedding were completely for myself I probably wouldn't even get a wedding dress but just a pretty white dress. Actually I might not do a wedding-wedding dress. But I'll consider other opinions and not just my own. I don't want to just sign at a city hall, but really I'd hope if I marry that it would be really simple yet something others (and hopefully me, but I'd be "on" the whole day so honestly I'm not 100% sure I'll enjoy all aspects of the actual day...my sister though felt like she was in a dream so maybe it's possible) can enjoy.

33. Tami said the following at 1:39 PM on Jul 12:

Hmm. I think the "asking ladies to dance" thing is a matter of expectation.

If you go to an "old school" social dance, I think the expectation *is* on the men to ask a number of different women to dance, and (for the most part) for the women to accept and participate.

On the other hand, if we're talking about a wedding or something -- I wouldn't necessarily expect a guy to ask me to dance a slow dance. If he wasn't married, I probably *would* think he was interested, at least on some level. (Maybe I assume too much, but oh well.) So I can understand why guys would be reluctant to ask girls to dance in a situation like that. And since the 60's (except for formals), dance has been more individualistic, so I think the social expectation and social code for partners dancing has fallen by the wayside. So I can't really blame guys for not asking girls to dance -- it's probably not something they've been taught to do as a matter of etiquette; and, it can be really personal and physically close. Add the awkwardness that comes from not knowing how to dance, and it makes it even more understandable to me.

34. BDB said the following at 3:00 PM on Jul 12:

Liz (#21) I forgot to mention one thing:

It's 14:00 Pacific Daylight Time...

35. Jo said the following at 7:53 AM on Jul 13:

R, #31:
"If the girl has said "yes" to this nominal or non-believer bad guy, then her faith is probably just the same."

That's a bit of a leap. An unwise, even sinful choice, maybe. But it doesn't follow that she's not a true Christian. Also, Liz was giving a possible reason why a mature Christian woman might eventually end up saying yes to the 'bad boy' - and you turned it into a circular argument.

"(And boundless women wonder why Christian guys like David Wheaton must find it hard to find a godly wife.)"

Did your read my comment on the thread about him?

You seem quite angry with women in general. Maybe you have reason to be, but please stop tarring us all with the same brush.

36. Marc said the following at 8:20 AM on Jul 13:

I honestly have never heard of or listened to Katy Perry or her song, "I Kissed A Girl". Sadly, many of us have no idea how many musicians and actors started-out as Christians but, as time went on, they write-off being a Christian as "a phase", just like Miss Perry.

We should pray for these people. We should also pray for the likes of Jessica Simpson, Britney Spears, Jamie Foxx, Will Smith, and others who have seemed to turn their back on their faith.

I say this all in love because I, too, turned my back on Christ and I was oh-so-close to paying for it with my life... literally.

37. Hannah said the following at 9:33 AM on Jul 13:

R (#31)
I won't speak in regard to "more male bashing," but I'd like to say that I've been in similar social situations when the guys I know and trust (and would consider to be my "brothers") have been too laid back, and I've ended up being asked to dance by strangers/creepy guys and had to leave early--simply because the guys I know and trust weren't helping to protect and serve me by dancing with me. It had nothing to do with intentions--you can swing dance with me and have no interest interpreted--and everything to do with thoughtlessness.

However, I will say that that's been the exception to the rule in my experience, so, to those dear brothers who DO step out and lead, my hearty thanks is yours.

38. Dan ^real name^ said the following at 12:33 AM on Jul 14:

Was wondering if you could respond to my question to you (post #38) from the last Boundless Show - Episode 24: Why you think there are no women around you worth pursuing, or not available. I ask this in respect and as your brother in Christ, not in a way of attacking you.

As I stated in one of my posts from that blog entry (post #31), there are some Godly women in my life that I have chosen NOT to pursue for a couple reasons which are private to me and the Lord, a point which Jo can concur with (her post #35). A guy shouldn't be made to feel like he's committing a crime because he chooses not to pursue certain women (nor a woman for saying "no" to a certain man), and if someone passes judgement on me or you for not pursuing certain women, then they are out of line.

BTW, this is being typed by a man (me) who has had to learn and relearn many things (including considering that he may have been "emasculated" at times in his life - not playing the victim here, but sometimes I believe that it is helpful to consider the wounds you have) and change his paradigm regarding many relationship/male-female issues over the years. Alot of this has been through many tears and very sad and horrible events and days, some of of which is being healed by our Lord (Joel 2:25)!

You are my brother in the Lord, and I know from a few of your posts that you do have a desire for a wife. I am only trying to pass along some encouragement and help that I have received.

39. Miss S said the following at 4:46 PM on Jul 14:

Dan ^real name^ #38...not only is Dan your real name, but it seems like you are a real man. I've really appreciated your input on masculinity/dating issues. Too bad we can't replicate you around the country! *smile*

40. Mary said the following at 5:14 PM on Jul 14:

I really appreciated the round table discussion on masculinity, or the lack there of, in our culture. Many people would like to think that our differences as men and women are only tied to the different organs we are born with. Every other aspect of the Bible has been denounced, so it is understandable that this would be too. However as Christians, I think it is important to recognize and be thankful that God created mankind seperately male and female for His purpose. Both are precious in His sight. While I think that it is important that we are treated equal as human beings, men and women are created different. We are created in GOD's image which means that both men and women show a side of our Great God. Thank you for this insightful discussion and for the commenting on the deragatory jokes which fly towards both sexes. As Christians, we should be building each other up, and inspiring each other to become more like Christ.

41. Leah said the following at 7:24 PM on Jul 14:

JT and Marc- I've never heard "I Kissed a Girl" either :S

42. Nicole said the following at 8:49 PM on Jul 14:

Glad I'm not the only who had never heard the song! :)

43. Janice said the following at 10:37 PM on Jul 14:

Great show again this week...LOVE the Farmer's Market. And if it wasn't in or near triple digits everyday, I'd have a the "life in my car" look, too. Oh, and once I spent nearly $50 on a pair of custom racing swim goggles...still wonder if I should feel bad about that.

44. Ken said the following at 8:31 AM on Jul 15:

This is interesting dialogue! I love it. At least we can have guys and girls together wrestling over these issues of emasculation of men, women compromising in the men that they date, and the homosexual craze that is sweeping the world.

I see what the girls talk about in feeling like men are not stepping up. I agree as a guy that men don't take the initiative and the failure is a result of the feminization of culture, lack of discipleship, and fatherlessness in our culture.

On the brighter side, God has given us the power over sin and death, so there is great hope to overcome in Jesus Name.

I think we need to PRAY more for God to break these strongholds in christian cultures. As far as the "bad boy" that liz wrote about, there are "dating gurus" out there who are teaching many nonchristian men the psychology of how to date women. I almost fell into this trap because the game and tricks they use are all about being a bad boy to the girls, which creates a challenge for girls and they end up falling for the guy. I would love to see boundless do an article on this to get the word out about this this deceptive tool used in the world on nonchristian and christian girls alike. There are web sites that tell you you can double the amount of dates you get, and there is also a book called "the game" which teaches men about this. I don't advocate it and in fact God calls us to be the opposite in demonstrating fruits of the spirit and fleeing from evil.

I think the best lesson I could learn as a men is found throughout Scripture...maybe if we were men that were more biblically literate we would be more BOLD, STRONG, LOVING, CARING, etc...the key is to follow in the way of JESUS...he modeled to me what a true man is.

45. BB said the following at 9:02 AM on Jul 15:

So basically this is what I would sum up from the first section.

Guys: step up and take charge of something. It's fun and women notice it. That's how I met the woman I'm with now.

Ladies: Even if guys aren't stepping up and you think it will never get done, resist the urge to step in and take over. Even if something doesn't get done, next time the guys will be forced to see that it's their fault and they will see the need for leadership.
Also, you may be able to be a better leader then the guy but still resist the urge. Good leadership comes with practice therefore if you allow him to lead, he'll only get better. Also, if you're that practiced at being a leader, one might wonder how many guys you've pushed out of the way to get there.

46. Dan {real name} said the following at 12:15 PM on Jul 17:

Miss S#39:

Thanks for the kind words.

47. KDS said the following at 12:40 PM on Jan 6:

giving $40 to assuage guilt? what happened to the cheerful giver?