Top 10 Cities for Recent College Grads
by Motte Brown on 06/03/2008 at 1:44 PM
I found this link on Joe Carter's blog which may help with all those considering the "Now What?" question Steve asked yesterday. It's a list of top 10 cities for recent college grads based on "entry-level job openings, rental prices for one-bedroom apartments and large resident populations of young adults in their early 20s."
Here they are with one-bedroom prices on the side:
1. Philadelphia, $962
2. Boston, $1,343
3. New York, $1,520
4. Phoenix, $741
5. Chicago, $1,029
6. Dallas-Fort Worth, $755
7. Los Angeles, $1,435
8. Houston, $778
9. Detroit, $699
10. Atlanta, $773
I think the qualifications they mention (job openings, apartment prices, populations of young adults) are pretty good. But I'm wondering what other qualifications our readers might put on the list. Well?
1. obewan said the following at 2:18 PM on Jun 3:
A new grad starting out may not have any choice in the matter, but one huge thing I look at now is traffic patterns vs. proximity of good living accomodations and commuting times. I try to plan a couple of days for my interview trips so I can experience the worst possible traffic patterns, and I map out a living zone to investigate within 15 mins commuting time from the job. I will never spend up to 1-1/2 hours in heavy traffic getting home from work at night again. Now that I have an 8 min 4 mile commute, I am spoiled for life.
2. Jaime said the following at 2:19 PM on Jun 3:
In 1998 when I graduated with my B.S., I rented a studio apartment in the suburbs of a medium-sized ciry for $300/month. I had a small kitchen, one big room, a bathroom, and a large, walk-in closet. It was in a safe neighborhood and about 20 minutes from the school district I got a job teaching in. Doubtless that same apartment would go for $450/month or more nowadays, but it's a far cry from the prices in the blog above. Start small, folks.
3. Laura_MH said the following at 2:39 PM on Jun 3:
I have lived in 3 of these cities:
Phoenix - Born and raised there. Phoenix and Tucson are basically desert and HOT in the summer.....your A/C will basically run non-stop for about 5 months (May-October). Summer electricity bills therefore are very expensive. Low humidity most of the year. Arizona has wonderful mountain escapes (Flagstaff - similar in climate to Denver) and the beautiful red rocks of Sedona. The closest beach is actually in Mexico, called Rocky Point, about a 5-6 hour drive southwest. Phoenix has typical west-coast transportation issues - long commutes due to poor public transportation infrastructure. Expect your gasoline costs to be high - try to live close to work. As for jobs, lots of good but smaller companies. Some big employers in Phoenix are ASU, Honeywell, Motorola, Intel, and CVS/Caremark.
Chicago - Lived there for 2 years. Did not think the cold was as bad as everyone said it would be, but I also lived in an apartment with heated underground parking (rare, hard to find). Look for an apartment with free heat, I had this and my monthly utility bills were less than $40! If you live and work in the city, rents of course are higher but gas costs are low because you can take the El to and from work. Lots of corporate HQs in Chicago, take your pick.
Houston - I currently live there. Similar to Phoenix, with higher crime rates. I actually live close to work downtown so I typically only have to drive my car on the weekends, which is GREAT! Rents about the same as Phoenix. The city seems like a big mish-mash sometimes, with *tons* of run-down sprawl. Hot and humid in the summer. If Phoenix is an oven, then Houston is a sauna! Public transportation issues are similar to Phoenix. Employers tend to be the big oil and gas/energy companies.
If you have any questions I will try to answer them.
4. brx said the following at 2:46 PM on Jun 3:
Consider Quality of Life! They may pay more, but I want nothing to do with the concrete jungles! (just my preference)
If trying to decide between multiple offers, I'd give weight to the job that you'd actually enjoy more. And, don't stress over trying to look more than 5yrs into the future; trust God.
I disagree with those who advise finding a good local church at your destination before considering moving there, because God has His spirit and people everywhere. If you're actively looking and praying for Christian community, you'll find it.
Grace, peace, & adventure!
5. Christina (in green) said the following at 2:52 PM on Jun 3:
My dad put on the list:
Church.
Actually, finding a biblical church that was alive was what motivated my dad to pick up and move his family, no matter where the job was or what the cost of living was.
6. Elizabeth said the following at 3:03 PM on Jun 3:
Those prices are insane (and I don't live in a cheap area of the country)--you can definitely find a place for less than that. That is why God made roommates! ;)
Anyways, what else is on the list? Church, for sure. If not one you know of personally, at least recommendations of good churches in the area, or connections with a denomination/network. Also proximity to family and (I admit it) weather/climate. Although the weather where I live isn't perfect, it is an amazingly beautiful area of the country. It was one of the factors (though not a very large one) when I considered where to go post-college.
7. Shayna said the following at 3:05 PM on Jun 3:
I would encourage people not to forget to factor in activities they particularly enjoy. If you love watersports, don't live in Phoenix. If you're into the music scene, consider Nashville. Et cetera.
Also, I wouldn't advise any recent college grad to get a one-bedroom unless you have some sort of special need. It seems to be much better stewardship to find roommates and split. I live in NYC, but $1,520 a month would be most of my salary. I share a great apt with four other people, and the rent is a third of that.
8. kyle. said the following at 3:44 PM on Jun 3:
yeah, i'd pay twice as much to live in l.a. over detroit. no question.
9. Christina (in green) said the following at 3:45 PM on Jun 3:
Just an FYI,
From experience, I find living alone to be incredibly unhealthy, isolating, and leads to selfishness and self-indulgence.
Being able to create a family atmosphere in your home and continuing to work in cooperation and sacrifice is so much better spriritually, mentally, and emotionally.
10. Cassandra said the following at 3:47 PM on Jun 3:
I recently graduated, and though I have a semester of student teaching before I really have to make my way in the world, these things have been on my mind for awhile. Thankfully, teachers are rather omnipresent. Because of a loan assistance program I was accepted to, my choice has been narrowed to low income schools in California-- but that still leaves plenty to choose from. Here are some of the considerations I'm thinking about:
1. Church. Needs to be near a church who worships biblically. I'd rather commute to work than be far from church. There are a few specific congregations I have in mind from my own visits and people's recommendation.
2. Support. Family is less of a consideration for me, but I need to have people I can turn to for support. The church is one source, but it helps to have specific people in mind.
3. Location/Environment. I get really anxious in crowded busy places when I can't get away. Having a lot of trees around does wonders for my nerves, and keeps me calm. If I stay near my school, I will definitely have to stay north rather than in the heart of LA, despite cost of living, just for my sanity.
4. Costs. Obviously, lower prices on housing etc would be nice.
The interesting thing is I need to balance these concerns, so theres no clearcut right answer. Also, I may not get hired in my first choice area. Who knows.
11. Angie said the following at 3:50 PM on Jun 3:
Detroit? Seriously? There's a reason the rent for Detroit is the cheapest on the list. I only know people (of all ages) fleeing that area, not moving to it. Poor Motown has a long ways to go, as does its ailing state's economy.
12. Louise said the following at 4:10 PM on Jun 3:
Re comment 9,
Okay folks, please save me from a life of unhealthy isolation and selfishness!
If any recent college graduate wants to move to the NW suburbs of Chicago, you may rent my guest room and guest bathroom.
Kitchen privileges (probably spelled wrong) too, of course.
Please help me keep me and my cat company!
:)
13. PLH said the following at 4:15 PM on Jun 3:
One factor that is under appreciated is the importance of having extended family nearby. I'm not saying people should always live in the same town as their parents, grandparents, etc, but it's nice to be within an hour or two drive so that you can turn to family members for support.
14. Rachael said the following at 4:19 PM on Jun 3:
I'd agree with others who suggested "church" as another important "qualification". Would also agree with Cassandra that the environment is important. Of course to me relationships and church would be of a higher priority, but I absolutely love where I live, locationally speaking. I love living near the Sound, lakes, mountain views, and trees (though not too many trees outside the parks in the city...the forests are more of a drive). The Pacific NW is absolutely gorgeous and I'd highly recommend it, accept I feel the church options might be more limited for folks of particular leanings. I really like my church, but somehow I'm under the impression that there are more church options (closer to my preferences) in the East, though I've never lived in the East (except for Asia).
15. DannieA said the following at 4:39 PM on Jun 3:
Cassandra.....if you're in So. CA, work in Pomona! I work there as a speech therapist. This is my last year that I have to verify where I work to get my loan forgived. (Plus I love your name...if I ever have a girl, that's the name I hope to give her)
Also in some cases it's not selfish to live by yourself.
I lived with wonderful roommates in college, and that's the way it's supposed to be....once you're out of college, life begins and there's more trouble to be had with people not paying up half of bills....and then you end up in People's Court....no no no....volunteer and do mission trips to keep you humble and giving. When it comes to being a good steward, either live with a family you trust and rent a room...or find a place by yourself. You will save friendships and learn how to deal with life more effectively.
16. DannieA said the following at 4:41 PM on Jun 3:
I'd avoid Detroit like the Plague.
California suits all types....Texas Dallas/Ft. Worth is a good city for young adults to start of in.
if you are single, I'd go with a city or area that has a high concentration of available people to meet.
17. Casey said the following at 4:49 PM on Jun 3:
Definitely church. I went to Boston to visit a friend of mine that had been living there for about a year at the time, and he had been completely stagnating because he could not for the life of him find a biblically based church there. After a year and a half he finally found something with potential, but by then, he become so run down, he decided to move back down here to Orlando, where weve got quite a lot of churches doing awesome things.
Also though, Public Transportation and City life in Boston was excellent. You didnt even have to own a car! Not true down here in Orlando, where youll be lucky to put less than 30 miles on your car any given day traveling to and from work/school, we're so spread out!
18. S said the following at 5:22 PM on Jun 3:
Well, I'm glad to see this blog did not disappoint and jumped on the bash Detroit bandwagon. It's pretty easy to do when you're on the outside looking in. Detroit and the state of Michigan have a lot of great things to offer. Downtown Detroit is coming back to life, the waterfront area is being developed, there are tons of outdoor activities to do, 4 seasons, great sports teams, and people who are proud of the place that they come from. The state's economy is in a state of transition, which means jobs aren't in ample supply, but there are good ones out there. Oh, and as for me, I'd avoid Los Angeles like the plague. Earthquakes, mudslides, traffic, fires. I'll take blizzards and the occasional tornado.
Point being. Go where is best for you. Don't listen to the pundents and talking heads.
19. megan said the following at 6:20 PM on Jun 3:
churches.
coffee shops.
decent grocery stores.
fun weekend activities (indoor/outdoor/cultural experiences.
20. Novagirl in VA said the following at 6:29 PM on Jun 3:
I have to put in my two cents for my hometown: Washington DC and the surrounding burbs. I'm born and raised in Northern VA, and I've never left!
Yes, it's expensive, and yes the traffic can be bad, but if you're strategic in where you live, it can be managed. Salaries are generally high (with some exceptions). Its very diverse, and folks here are smart and do all sorts of interesting things. Just about any hobby or interest you have, you can find folks here who do it too.
The beach is 3 hrs away, the mountains are 1-2 hrs away, and you get all four seasons! There are lots of great churches here too of all sorts.
One of the best things about DC is that the economy is much less prone to recession because of all the federal workers and spending. Generally, when the economy dips here it is much less severe than the rest of the country. And there is lots of private industry and non-profits here -- it's not all government by any means.
21. John said the following at 6:54 PM on Jun 3:
Anybody else live or lived in Houston?
It seems like the housing is cheap. Is that true?
Is the weather there unbearable?
22. John D. said the following at 7:23 PM on Jun 3:
I respectfully disagree with Christina (post 9) who wrote
"From experience, I find living alone to be incredibly unhealthy, isolating, and leads to selfishness and self-indulgence."
It works better if you were an only child and are used to it.
It's good to have your own space.
23. Ted Slater said the following at 7:42 PM on Jun 3:
Great additions! I agree that "a solid biblical church" should be near the top of the list.
And if you're single, I'd look for high populations of singles of the opposite sex. Check this article out for states that are lopsided toward either single men or single women.
24. BDB said the following at 8:22 PM on Jun 3:
S (#18) wrote:
>>Oh, and as for me, I'd avoid Los Angeles like the plague. Earthquakes, mudslides, traffic, fires. I'll take blizzards and the occasional tornado. <<
Now wait a minute...I didn't say anything about Michigan...
We had a couple of tornadoes the other day. It's not like anyone here has basements. Though I admit I'd rather spend the day watching tornadoes on FoxNews with my coffee...
The nice thing about earthquakes is that 30 seconds later, you know whether or not you survived.
The mudslides have been happening since my dad was an insurance adjuster down here 40 years ago. Rich people just keep building so they can see the ocean. They can't get insurance for those houses. (Of course, I deliberately bought a house on a rock hill that won't slide. I even looked at the soil survey.)
Fires...well, you can plan for those as well. There's a high school between my house and the scrub growth. It's a very defensible location - the fire department will never let the concrete high school burn.
But I do miss trees. Here they have poles with bushes on the top.
Though I will admit that during my freshman year of college, a guy from Minnesota and I had a good chuckle over how concerned everyone was when it rained 1/4 inch. The news made it sound like they had to close the schools or something.
Though traffic does make driving in the rain hazardous. It's as dangerous as driving in the snow in Seattle. No one knows what to do.
But the classic response was from the Swedes who were visiting in January - asking if it was summer now. No, 16 degrees C is winter in Southern California...
But I realized when I'd lived here too long. There was water hitting my doors on the patio. I thought, "Oh no! I broke a sprinkler head!" I opened the door, and it was raining. No one had bothered to mention that on the weather forecast. They're too busy goofing off on the news...
Unless there's a fire. Then the newspeople are on the ball...
25. Nicole (from Boston) said the following at 8:24 PM on Jun 3:
A very interesting post. I'm now a senior in nursing school and since this area is renowned for its hospitals and I currently still live at home with the family, I anticipate staying in my current arrangement until either 1) I get married or 2) I pay off all my loans and can afford a house (haha!!). Actually, some of the Boston suburbs aren't too bad depending on how far out you want to go. My city is about 35 miles southwest of the city but the Commuter Rail has a stop here and lots of folks in my city use it to commute to Boston. Or you can take I95 up the MassPike if you're feeling brave. And I totally agree with Casey (#17)...Boston is a very neat city, if you're willing to love a city with more than its fair share of liberal thinkers.
My church is fantastic (although I admit I'm slightly biased)!! It's a Bible-believing reformed charismatic church. Two of the singles in our group actually live in Boston proper and commute to church and church functions so it can be done. :) If I ever do leave this area, a solid church (probably one within my family of churches) would be near if not at the top of my list.
26. Jenny said the following at 8:49 PM on Jun 3:
Questions for those who live the urban lifestyle, to assist those of us who are considering moving to a city someday:
Do you ever miss the country?
Do you find having stores and coffee shops around you constantly drains your wallet, or are you able to control your spending habits after a time?
Do you think being surrounded by 20-somethings prevents you from reaping the benefits of interaction with children and elderly?
Do you end up taking part in the activities and programs offered to you, or do you keep to yourself as much as you would have in suburbia after a couple of years?
Do you think living on your own or with room mates could influence your moral decisions, as opposed to living with parents or siblings?
Do you end up consuming more alcohol than you would had you not chosen to live in the city?
These questions are not meant to imply any sort of criticism, they are honest inquiries. I have always wanted to live in a big city. Just looking for info. from those of you who have "been there, done that."
27. DannieA said the following at 9:03 PM on Jun 3:
Well we all have our preferences.
I know your post was in response to mine "S", but I also am talking about when I was there in the mid 90s...it wasn't a great place to be...I also hate LA...which is why So. Cal is better, because most So. Cal is populated enough to have good things for you without having to live in LA.
Either way...Earthquakes are easier on the nerves than Tornadoes.
But yes if you are serious about pursuing marriage, I back my claim that you need to go where there are single people available.
John D. Houston is humid as heck and has flying cockroaches
28. Ariana said the following at 9:47 PM on Jun 3:
I agree with what brx said about church. All the cities on the list are major metropolitan areas. So, it's already a given that there are dozens upon dozens of solid Bible-based churches in all of those cities-and in multiple denominations, too. It can take a lot of work to find one, but God's people are indeed everywhere.
I live in Philadelphia now, doing the recently graduated thing (class of 2007), and I would say that Philly is a very cultured place, so you wouldn't want for things to do or see, or interesting people to meet. It's also really nice to be 2hrs. from New York and Baltimore, and 3hrs. from DC, and less than 2 hrs. from the beach. You always have a trip you can take to somewhere outside the city if you want to.
Also, family is very important! I'm fortunate to have a good network of college friends in the area, but I'm originally from the midwest and have absolutely no family out here. I wouldn't suggest making that move without having really good reasons for it. Not only is it expensive to fly several times out of the year, but when "life happens" you want to have people who will, without a doubt, be there.
29. James said the following at 10:19 PM on Jun 3:
In response to #3, I live in Phoenix currently.
Crime can be bad, but that depends on where you choose to live. Also, commute times are NOT bad if you time things right. It's your fault if you choose to live in Gilbert while your work is in Deer Valley and you end up traveling the 202 and 10 in the morning rush (or should I say 'stop') hours.
Gas, yeah that's an issue, but the freeway structures are good, and you can use them (pick your timing wisely) to get to most places within 30 to 40 minutes.
Also, electricity costs ARE high, but are not bad if your place has good insulation and you keep your AC set to 78*F and set to auto-turn-on. It'll bring the temps inside down to that and only turn on when it gets a degree or so warmer. A good ceiling fan helps keep the air moving so your AC system has less work to do. Case in point: my May electricity bill was $32.
As long as you're willing to brave being warmer than you usually are, Phoenix is a great place to live if you pick your living place wisely. Quite a few great churches around here, and the stuff that's available to do is great. The swing dance scene in particular is sweet, as are concerts, and other great entertainment.
Phoenix is also the fastest growing city in the U.S. So, this is the place for tech, if that's an arena you want to work in. And it's not just the big employers that are hiring, but smaller ones as well.
The heat is annoying, but I wouldn't want to move to anywhere else right now. So, I don't dog on Phoenix, it's a great place to settle down in.
30. Joy said the following at 10:21 PM on Jun 3:
Why is Detroit on this list?? Michigan has an unemployment rate of around 9%. I'm from Michigan and everyone who graduated with me has left the state to find a job or headed off to grad school. The economy is the second worst in the country, after Louisiana (and they got hit with a hurricane!). I wonder about the objectiveness of this survey.
31. Katherine said the following at 11:32 PM on Jun 3:
I grew up in Houston--housing is pretty cheap. Gas used to be some of the cheapest in the nation, but not so much anymore. I personally prefer having four seasons (Houston's is more hot & not-quite-so-hot), but it's nice during the "winter". If you reeeeally can't stand heat/humidity, Houston's a hard sell, but the character of the city is great: pretty good economy, good cost-of-living, inhabited by people of many nationalities, and a very good arts/culture scene. There are a fair number of younger people there, too.
I (and many of my friends) have ended up living in the general area where we attended college. It depends on the locale, but often places that are supportive of college students can also be very recent-graduate friendly, too.
Another way to save on housing costs is to find a place where lots of young singles rent houses: it helps defray housing costs in expensive suburbs. I live now in the western suburbs of Chicago in my college town, and that is one of the features that drew me here. Land prices here are double/triple what they are in Houston, but I've shared houses with 4-6 other women, and that makes it much more affordable (the prices listed above for some of those one bedroom apts. equals or exceeds my entire monthly income!). Chicago also has much better public transportation than Houston. It doesn't hurt that my town has the highest number of churches per capita, but that can create its own problems...I don't think it's necessary to nail down your church before you commit to a city, as long as you've done enough surveying to see that there's a good pool of potential church homes.
In the end, each person needs to ascertain what cluster of factors are important for them, and factor in a bit of give-and-take. For instance, my current residence has a higher rent, but is only a five minute drive from BOTH the places I work. That kind of thing. Just make sure you have a support system (or favorable conditions for developing one): family or friends or a really supportive church. If at least one of those is strong, you can handle the others being a bit weaker. But if none of these are soul-sustainingly strong, loneliness will eat away at your soul.
32. Jeni said the following at 12:32 AM on Jun 4:
As Ted suggested in #23, I'd consider the population of the single men in an area in a possible move.
After reviewing the article that was referenced; It might be time for me to look at jobs in Nevada and North Dakota. A couple of years ago, I considered a move to Alaska. I visited the Last Frontier few times. Armed with the book "Catch and Release - The Insider's Guide to Alaska Men", I still did not run into the single men who have been reported to be just hanging from the trees there.
It is gorgeous country with a lot to see and do. I highly recomend a visit to experience more of God's country, even if the "men in trees" elusively avoid meeting anyone from the lower 48.
33. P&P said the following at 4:59 AM on Jun 4:
Opportunities to engage in the community. This can range from volunteering at a shelter, a community garden project (home-grown food, whoo hoo!) or ushering at a local theater, but finding activities to do outside of work that are affordable and give you an opportunity to meet people are essential.
34. Christina (in green) said the following at 5:58 AM on Jun 4:
John D, #23,
As an intravert, I can definitly relate to needing own space. Because I grew up with 4 younger siblings, I definitly know how WONDERFUL it is to be able to retreat to my own bedroom for some peace and quiet...and how glorious it is to have my own bathroom and toothbrush.
However, because I grew up in a large family, I see the changes in myself much more noticeably.
I don't have to do my chores if I don't feel like it and it doesn't affect anyone but myself. I eat whenever I feel like it, rather than being able to come together as a family to eat. I can be as loud as I want, as quiet as I want, as moody as I want, and as tempramental as I want, and no one else matters.
However, I want to get married some day. Being in the habit of eating whenever I want will not work with my spouse and children. Being as loud, quiet, moody, tempramental (especially that one) as I want is NOT going to work.
Doing my chores is going to help with keeping a stress-free home for me and my spouse.
That's the way it works with roommates =p
Isolating yourself completely is really, seriously not healthy.
Of course, you can get an outlet in serving others by joining a church and doing it even when it inconveniences you, which also helps with not isolating you.
35. Susan said the following at 6:40 AM on Jun 4:
I'll start with the first two questions
Do you ever miss the country? The wonderful thing about Philadelphia is that we are not to far from the country. I have often spent a Saturday out in Lancaster county.
Do you find having stores and coffee shops around you constantly drains your wallet, or are you able to control your spending habits after a time?
I don't think unwise spending is limited to the city by any means. Also, cities often have plenty of free events that take place. For example, during the summer Philly shows movies for free near the river and the Philadelphia Orchestra often puts on shows in parks for free as well.
If you're willing to do a little research, you'll also find delicious places to eat at affordable prices. In Chinatown, there is a place I eat at where dinner costs me $5.
36. mindlab said the following at 6:48 AM on Jun 4:
Re 26. Jenny:
Having just moved from the semi-country (rural NH) to Greenville, SC, I'll take a swing at these:
--Do you ever miss the country?
Yes, I miss the country every day; the city is noisy, there are few open spaces, and you have to drive to the 'outdoors' instead of simply walking out the back door.
--Do you find having stores and coffee shops around you constantly drains your wallet, or are you able to control your spending habits after a time?
I don't have a problem being surrounded by store/coffee shops/etc, but that's just me.
--Do you think being surrounded by 20-somethings prevents you from reaping the benefits of interaction with children and elderly?
Yes, it certainly does. In a church with a large 'singles' ('refugees') group, it's much harder to form meaningful relationships with non-singles for two reasons; you are less motivated to seek them out, and the are less motivated to spend time getting to know you ("Why don't you go hang out with the singles and leave us adults alone?").
--Do you end up taking part in the activities and programs offered to you, or do you keep to yourself as much as you would have in suburbia after a couple of years?
Not sure how to answer that.
--Do you think living on your own or with room mates could influence your moral decisions, as opposed to living with parents or siblings?
Yes, absolutely. If at all possible you should live with your family. As Christina (in green) mentioned earlier, living alone is not healthy, and tends to make a person selfish and self-centered. Furthermore, roommates are no substitute for a family that cares about you and can speak into your life.
--Do you end up consuming more alcohol than you would had you not chosen to live in the city?
I don't know; I don't drink.
37. Louise said the following at 7:37 AM on Jun 4:
Comment 34, I agree that "total isolation" is unhealthy but people who do not share a living space with other people are not necessarily "completely isolated."
In my particular situation, with my work schedule, gym routines, and history organizations I am easily away from home more than twelve hours a day during the week!
I also routinely host friends/family in my home.
I can definitely understand why the concept of living alone does not appeal to everyone, but it works for me and apparently for the author of comment 23.
And....I have been accused on this blog of making "offensive blanket statement" about biblical worldview people.
It would be much appreciated if that similar courtesy would be extended to the secular people on this blog, of which I am definitely one.
Remember, if we were all the same, the world would be terribly boring.
Thank you.
:)
38. Matthew said the following at 8:15 AM on Jun 4:
Motte posted the bare priorities for our early 20's. Job. Place to stay. Finding a spouse. These are the important things.
Those who responded brought up the weather, commutes, coffee shops, grocery stores, weekend activities, and other seemingly unimportant details.
Personally, I don't think we should be worrying about small things that dont matter. But Motte's got his head on straight- we should be getting a job, finding a place to stay, and finding a spouse. Why would others think about anything else?
39. Kelly said the following at 10:18 AM on Jun 4:
I assume those prices are per month? They seem remarkably cheap when compared to other countries! (Due to the falling value of the USD, perhaps 2 years ago they were on a more equal scale.)
Also, living with flatmates in your 20's may be great, but what happens beyond that? Don't you ever get the desire to make a home your 'own'? Sure, the compromises with flatmates are good for us, but I'm the type of person who constantly has visitors. That's more than enough to drive most people mad.
40. Anne said the following at 10:31 AM on Jun 4:
Detroit, Really?
I grew up in Detroit and now go to school near Grand Rapids and I have stayed in GR the past two summers due to the slumping southeast Michigan economy. What types of entry level jobs are there in Detroit?
41. Carrie (the original) said the following at 11:12 AM on Jun 4:
There is one city that I feel compelled to plug: Chattanooga.
It doesn't have a huge single population (a friend joked that we have more weddings per capita than any other city), but you have a city that is
(1) CHEAP (yeah, you can pay $700/month . . for a LUXURY 1 BR. Regular is closer to $500.)
(2) Great churches! (It's part of the Bible belt)
(3) Growing economy (although gas prices are kind of hurting everyone, so "growing" is relative to that)
(4) Lots of free/cheap entertainment
(5) Volunteer opportunities galore!
. . . it's just a great city. I highly recommend it, but don't come here looking to meet anyone. They all get married right after graduating college or within a few years after.
42. Sarah P. said the following at 11:15 AM on Jun 4:
Well, Matthew (#38): Suppose you have your job and a place to stay, and you even find your spouse... but your job is working at Macy's when you really feel called to be a writer, your apartment is tiny and cockroach-infested, and you and your new spouse have nothing to do. Now what? It'll take at least a few years to have babies enough to keep her so busy that she doesn't have time to go on dates any more.
Also, where do you hope to find your spouse? While you're cruisin', it's nice to have another reason to be wherever you end up, such as actually enjoying whatever activity you're doing.
To avoid offense, I should note that I am writing slightly tongue-in-cheek.
43. Hannah C. said the following at 12:11 PM on Jun 4:
A one-bedroom does not cost $755 in the DFW area - in my experience. There are apartments very close to my college, where a lot of current students live, and those are $600/month. If you go out to certain suburbs, like where I actually grew up, they get even cheaper - I've seen $300/month advertised.
I'll probably stay in the DFW area after I graduate, or at least stay in Texas - I guess I might end up in Austin somehow. I'll probably be living in the cheapest apartment I can find, and sharing it with a roommate or a husband, depending on if I'm married yet or not. I really don't want to live alone, for various reasons.
I would never move to California unless someone was guaranteed a good job. It's too expensive. If I did decide to go there, I might end up living with relatives, depending...
44. BDB said the following at 12:38 PM on Jun 4:
Jenny (#26) wrote some good questions:
>>Do you ever miss the country?<<
Yes. Especially trees. I ended up buying a 20-year-old house that has lots of trees in the neighborhood.
>> or are you able to control your spending habits after a time?<<
Yes, this was a learning process. The biggest (toughest) habit is lunch. When most co-workers are single and making good money, they go out to lunch every day. It creates a trap where you have to earn money and work lots of hours to keep up with your friends - but never get ahead financially.
>>Do you think being surrounded by 20-somethings prevents you from reaping the benefits of interaction with children and elderly?<<
Yes. 20-somethings making good money often develop really selfish lifestyles that are very expensive and incompatible with rearing a family. It looks fun, but eventually you realize there is "no life there," as my pastor would put it. If you live life in a financially disciplined way that would make Crown Financial Ministries proud, very likely your 20-something peers will tell you you're no fun.
>>Do you end up taking part in the activities and programs offered to you, <<
To pay off my credit cards, I had to pull back from the crowd I was running with. I couldn't afford to keep up with them and be financially responsible. There are, however, lots of opportunities to get involved in church life without breaking the bank.
>>Do you think living on your own or with room mates could influence your moral decisions, <<
Yes, but this can be positive or negative, depending on your family. If someone comes from a family with no spiritual leadership, living with a Christian roommate or alone might be a lot nicer.
I had some bad roommate experiences in college - particularly my freshman year when I was assigned someone who really wanted to partake of as much hedonism as possible. He eventually was forced to leave the school.
>>Do you end up consuming more alcohol than you would had you not chosen to live in the city?<<
No. The night before I started college I sat down to think and pray about this, and I decided I wasn't going to start drinking. The next day opportunities presented themselves. But within a few months I saw so many people making bad decisions under the influence that any desire I might have had was extinguished. I never want to be that out of control.
It was only a couple of years ago that I discovered my grandmother once made a very similar decision. The result is that in my family, not drinking alcohol is a very legitimate decision. Grandma has a very powerful personality. She also has lots of stories about people doing stupid things under the influence. But for us it was an intellectual decision, not a religious decision.
As far as I can tell, every bar in the world serves Coke. I fully intend to test this theory in Cambodia.
45. BDB said the following at 12:58 PM on Jun 4:
Matthew (#38) wrote:
>>Those who responded brought up the weather, commutes, coffee shops, grocery stores, weekend activities, and other seemingly unimportant details. <<
All those things affect what activities are available to find a spouse. Granted, Starbucks is now ubiquitous. But college-age people at a college-located coffeeshop are much more open than, say, the one in the high-powered executive building.
Commute specifically is a huge factor. Some people will have a commute that is 1-1.5 hours each way. Speaking from experience, if you do that, you will be too tired to have any kind of life. I don't recommend it. I did that in my late 20's; it probably would have been better to get a job close to grad school where I could have then participated a lot more in campus activities, met more people, etc.
Though, oddly enough, living on a cul-de-sac I've spent lots more time talking to my neighbors than I ever did living in an apartment during grad school. Perhaps it would have been different if I lived closer to campus...
46. Andrea said the following at 1:17 PM on Jun 4:
Great comments, and especially timely advice for me, as I am currently looking nationwide for a new position.
Though several years out of college myself, I had some stumbles along the career path and am just now heading out of "entry-level" (God willing!)
Dallas and Atlanta look especially appealing. I currently live in Nashville, and while it is a great city, it doesn't have much to offer in terms of growth opportunities in my field (copywriting/marketing).
For anyone interested in the music industry or Christian publishing (would have been my choice if life had not led otherwise), Nashville is a great town. It doesn't have as much to offer in terms of entertainment, and the churches do trend toward the Big, Loud, and Entertaining style of worship, but it is still a solid choice.
Strangely enough, the rent here is actually higher than some cities in the Top Ten. To find a single bedrooom apartment in a decent area, in living condition in the Metro area will cost a minimum of $750 a month. Really, you have to go higher than that to have any kind of amenities (gate security, etc.) If you move to Nashville, don't even bother looking at any of the ads that feature $550/month rent. They are all in the slums or dangerous parts of town. Scary. That's why I commute an hour to work each day. There's no way I could share a 3 bedroom 2 bath townhouse for my incredible rent. But now gas is killing me!
But I digress.
I am going to use this list to help with my decision making. And though I've heard the praises of DFW or Atlanta from several sources in the last few months, I would love to hear from anyone else who has lived in these areas.
47. DannieA said the following at 1:20 PM on Jun 4:
some people have stated some places are better or cheaper than this city or that city...
One thing to consider. If for some reason you didn't think about the consequences of loan repayment when you took them out to pay for college/grad school...it is not a bad idea to go to big cities where the pay is better and then find roommates (I personally don't like roommates, but that's just me....I like to keep friends...not make enemies)
You might look at the cost of living at one state and go hey it's cheaper living down there, but you may be taking a big paycut and no matter where you live, your loan payments don't budge...better to go where the pay is high, have roommates to split costs and then have the money to accelerate your student loans to payoff.
48. Tami said the following at 1:41 PM on Jun 4:
BDB (44) wrote:
"20-somethings making good money often develop really selfish lifestyles that are very expensive and incompatible with rearing a family. It looks fun, but eventually you realize there is 'no life there,' as my pastor would put it."
Unfortunately I know marrieds that act like this, too. If it goes on too long, one (or both) spouses continue to act like they're unmarried -- with regard not only to money, but their time, focus, and priorities. Even if they have kids. I can't see that being a good thing. It certainly keeps you frozen in a certain age-stage (adolescence).
Anyway...
I am a firm believer that the habits you cultivate before marriage amplify themselves afterward. By no means am I perfect :) but I try to look after my money and hope to marry someone who does the same, especially WRT tithing and charitable giving.
Anyway I will add -- there are certainly more entertainment options in metropolitan areas than in more rural areas. While this is positive, in that there's a lot to do, it's also negative, in that most of what you choose to do will cost a lot of money.
Especially if you're a foodie, or you befriend foodies. If going out to good restaurants becomes a pastime, you will decrease your wallet's size and increase your girth (lesson learned... don't eat too much Caesar salad!). :)
I grew up in (and currently live in) an area known for the vast array of stuff you can do. No doubt this contributes to the extreme cost of living here. Make no mistake -- to live in such an area, you have to make some sort of sacrifice, whether it's living with family or a bunch of people, living super simply and avoiding the "extras"... or being in debt.
49. jess said the following at 1:58 PM on Jun 4:
@ #26:
Do you ever miss the country?
Actually, rarely. Chicago is a great city, with the entire lakeshare devoted to green space, and even downtown they do a good job of planting lots of trees and plants and flowers. I live on the south side, and there's a good deal of natural life around :) I HAVE visited every conservatory and nature center in the area already, but I'm also kind of crazy about plants :) But I am enjoying not having a car--I can't believe we're going to see $5/gallon!!!
Do you find having stores and coffee shops around you constantly drains your wallet, or are you able to control your spending habits after a time?
Actually, I can't remember the last time I went in Starbucks, and in fact the last time I had coffee was a few months ago when I met the pastor of my new church! I'd say I spend a LOT LESS time and money on coffee and in shops than I did in college (when I was in a smallish city)...I do most of my shopping online these days, unless it's shopping for books.
Do you think being surrounded by 20-somethings prevents you from reaping the benefits of interaction with children and elderly?
Living in a city doesn't necessarily mean being surrounded by 20-somethings...I'm in grad school now, and thus spend a lot of time working on papers with people a lot older than I am. I do miss being around kids though! I used to babysit a lot and my church in college had tons of families. I guess I didn't realize how much I was around them until I got here! I think I'll start volunteering with the kds at church when I get back in the fall, though--the opportunities to interact with kids and elderly are there if you want them!
Do you end up taking part in the activities and programs offered to you, or do you keep to yourself as much as you would have in suburbia after a couple of years?
I am LOVING all the Chicago fun activities and cultural stuff so far. I'm a big list maker, so I have a big list of everything I want to do before I leave here (in a year most likely)...it's really fun to get to know the city you live in, and there are a lot of opportunities to see some amazing stuff for pretty cheap if you're looking out for it!
Do you think living on your own or with roommates could influence your moral decisions, as opposed to living with parents or siblings?
I lived with roommates all through college, which was really great for me because my parents are not believers, and college was when I first really understood what a "church family" was...which was so great. Once I moved to Chicago, I thought a lot about whether I wanted to live alone or with a roommate, and decided to go in on a 2BR with a girl in my program to cut costs. Even though we're really different, having her around helped me adjust to grad school life a lot, and in general it was nice having someone to come home to at the end of the day :) When I move again next year to get my first real job, I think I'll live on my own, unless a current friend is moving to the same city...
Do you end up consuming more alcohol than you would had you not chosen to live in the city?
I like to have a glass of wine at home a few nights a week, and I guess when I first moved here I went out to bars with people in my program to get to know them, but I am not a heavy drinker, and I'm more of an early to bed, early to rise sort of person so that tapered off pretty quickly!
50. Laurie said the following at 2:31 PM on Jun 4:
John, (#21), I grew up in the Houston area. I think the weather is definitely tolerable, but then again, I did grow up here! It is very humid in the summertime, and the threat of hurricanes is real. But I love this city and enjoy the warm weather. It never gets bitterly cold. The comment about flying cockroaches is true, but they sell cockroach bait to fix that problem really quick. :)
51. DannieA said the following at 2:40 PM on Jun 4:
To answer #26 as well
Do you ever miss the country?
I am blessed to have many friends, so whenever I want to go into the "country" I go visit them and enjoy some time in a small town. I also live in So. Ca. so I can go enjoy the desert, beach, mountains in an hour so I'm not sure if I'm the right person to answer that question. But I enjoyed my time in College in a small town surrounded by country...and it doesn't bother me that I don't live there.
Do you find having stores and coffee shops around you constantly drains your wallet, or are you able to control your spending habits after a time?
Honestly, I think if you go into a budget or a mindset to live in financial responsibility this is not an issue. I used to drink coffee once-three times a day at starbucks. Not anymore. I usually budget once a month and take out cash for my wallet for the month (entertainment, eating out) and if I spend it in one week, then I can't go out anymore, and if I pick and choose, I can have more choices of what to partake of. (also, it is possible to hang out with friends at Starbucks and either pay $1+ for hot tea or nothing for a glass of water and still have a good time...I've done that plenty of times when I was short on cash)
Do you think being surrounded by 20-somethings prevents you from reaping the benefits of interaction with children and elderly?
If you focus on getting involved with your church, I think you can rub elbows with all. I personally work with kids for my job (speech therapy) so I don't complain.
Do you end up taking part in the activities and programs offered to you, or do you keep to yourself as much as you would have in suburbia after a couple of years?
I am very involved in activities at church and it's easy to be involved. I also do alot of the activities presented to me and I take advantage of the free city entertainment (play at the park, city art walks etc.)
Do you think living on your own or with room mates could influence your moral decisions, as opposed to living with parents or siblings?
I've done both and I tend to be more firm in my moral/ethical belief system when I live by myself. I'm very extroverted so sometimes I get influenced by peers. Not so much now. I've grown and learned from mistakes.
Do you end up consuming more alcohol than you would had you not chosen to live in the city?
I grew up in a family that believes in abstaining from alcohol. I drank in college but have decided that alcohol is more a detriment so I don't consume alcohol whether alone or with friends.
Hope that helps Jenny
52. ptschett said the following at 3:55 PM on Jun 4:
So what's a guy to do whose only compelling interest in either the city list or the top-10-most-women list is that there are NASCAR tracks at half the locations?
BTW the Dakotas are a really nice place this time of year... :)
53. farmer Tom said the following at 5:36 PM on Jun 4:
As an old married guy, I am deeply amused by some of the responses to the question regarding additional things to look for in a place to live.
First thing that amuses me is that you all are answering a question posted on line, and more than half the answers talked about various aspects of entertainment, coffee shops, greens spaces, river fronts,....
Reminds me of the old adage about "bread and circuses" keep them fed and entertained and they will be happy. Seems some of you plan your life around how you can be entertained, and in my opinion that's sad. There really ought to be more to life than being entertained.
Second, The total lack of interest in living out in God's glorious creation. Why not live out in the country, raise a garden, raise you own meat, have real trees with real grass in a real yard? What is the infatuation with living in a cement jungle teaming with all sorts of human debris.
I have four children, I want to raise them in an environment where they can play in their own yard without ever having to worry about some pervert coming and snatching them. They can throw the ball, fly a kite and ride the go-kart, swim in their own pool, and shoot the BB-guns all without ever leaving their own yard.
The way many of you write about future marriage, it would appear that you want to find an equally vapid individual, who desires to live in the cement jungle, whose chief concern is how they will be entertained today. No wonder so many of you are single. Are you not capable of entertaining yourself and your future mate without relying on the "bread and circuses"? You're just like the secular world, living for self, concerned with entertainment more than personal and spiritual growth.
Lastly, I'm amused by the comments about church, because I get the impression that many of you look for a church using the same criteria as you use to look for a city to live in. What will I get out of it? Will this church entertain me? What is the ratio of guys to gals? Do they have a good singles program?
What you should be looking for is a church that preaches and teaches the Word of God. Not some denominational garbage, not some feel good, social gospel, sprinkled with God words, not some entertainment experience with the Bible as a come on, to get you in the door.
Well, I've got to go to prayer meeting, then have a church board meeting. I have to go serve the body of Christ rather than be entertained by it. Later, God Bless You One and All, I hope some of you grow up soon.
54. Ann said the following at 7:00 PM on Jun 4:
I live in the Dallas area and wanted to post how great of a place this is. You basically get two for one with Ft. Worth right down the road. There are tons of great restaurants, places to go, churches, free events, schools, history, and culture. Everyone that I know who graduated and wanted to stay has found a job. The opportunities are endless and the weather is amazing. I recommend it :)
55. Mollie Goings said the following at 7:09 PM on Jun 4:
Boundless, since you're based in Colorado Springs, what do you think of the city itself for recent college grads?
56. S said the following at 7:55 PM on Jun 4:
Anne (#40) -
According to the link the the original post, a job search website, there are 1075 sales jobs, 1029 management jobs, and 817 Health care jobs... Not sure if those are entry level, but I guess it all depends on what you're looking for!
57. Lynne in Atlanta said the following at 8:30 PM on Jun 4:
I wanted to write about Atlanta. I grew up here went to college and grad school here, lived here single and married, and have also lived in Memphis and California.
Atlanta is a huge city, comprised of smaller "cities" and suburbs with their own distinct character. Compared to other cities it's size it's significantly cheaper and is truly the "buckle" of the BIble Belt. There are large and small and medium churches covering all branches of orthodoxy. Restaurants, coffee, the arts, micro-breweries, close to the beach and the mountains, lots of outdoor activities and professional and recreatinal sports. Also the job market has generally stayed pretty decent here and we're not suffering from as much of the real estate bubble.
Atlanta used to have the largest metropolitan area (measured by local calling area) in the U.S. There are multiple universities, professional schools, healthcare, science opportunities and businesses here.
Also, you can drive 45 minutes in any directions and be in or near the country. 4 distinct seasons, and just enough snow to get out of work, build a snowman and drink hot chocolate once or twice a year.
Traffic can be an issue, mass transit is weak.
Ok, sorry for the PR post. But I've been quite happy here.
58. S said the following at 9:30 PM on Jun 4:
Farmer Tom - the article quoted was referring to the top cities to live in. I'm sure if they included rural and suburban areas, the list would look a lot different.
59. Rachael said the following at 9:31 PM on Jun 4:
Farmer Tom wrote:
"Lastly, I'm amused by the comments about church, because I get the impression that many of you look for a church using the same criteria as you use to look for a city to live in. What will I get out of it? Will this church entertain me? What is the ratio of guys to gals? Do they have a good singles program?
What you should be looking for is a church that preaches and teaches the Word of God."
--> My guess is that a lot of people on here don't care about singles groups and entertainment from churches. And if they do? If it's Biblically based, it's fine if they'd like those things (of course not just entertainment for entertainment's sake, but it's okay to want to enjoy a church).
-->Even though it seems simple to find a church that preaches the Word of God very solidly, I wonder if the abundance of those types of churches varies depending on the location and whatever reason.
I really think it's okay to look for a Biblically sound church where there is a welcome community (perhaps should not the most important, but honestly I feel warmth isn't always near-to-immediately noticed in all churches) and where one could enjoy serving. Of course one can serve in any church, but it's okay to look for elements that resonates with one's theology, etc...
60. Rachael said the following at 10:09 PM on Jun 4:
H Jenny (26),
Do you ever miss the country?
-->was raised in a suburb
Do you find having stores and coffee shops around you constantly drains your wallet, or are you able to control your spending habits after a time?
-->You don't have to always be walking around shops or drinking coffee...life happens in other ways :) Might also depend on your habits and social activity...if you're always socializing in ways besides hanging out at a home or at a church or a nature place, you might find yourself spending money at wherever you go...
Do you think being surrounded by 20-somethings prevents you from reaping the benefits of interaction with children and elderly?
-->There are several younger-ish people at my church, but I feel that there is interaction from various generations through a small group and serving.
Do you end up taking part in the activities and programs offered to you, or do you keep to yourself as much as you would have in suburbia after a couple of years?
-->take part in activities and programs, though a couple of my involvements are now done (one at least temporarily, one probably forever :) ), so I suppose I am not at the current moment not as involved, but last month I would've answered differently.
Do you end up consuming more alcohol than you would had you not chosen to live in the city?
-->Suppose this would depend on one's drinking habits and who they hang out with, though even if I'm a situation where drinks are offered, in America I tend not to choose the alcohol. If you're living in a city overseas where alcohol plays a big role in the culture, one trick is to take a sip and leave your glass full so there is no room for them to refill the glass...I know, it's a waste, but...
Basically if you are generally strongly resistant to alcohol it's not a problem. I suppose if you like to drink and hang out with people of similar mindsets you may end up drinking more...
61. Nicole said the following at 10:39 PM on Jun 4:
Weather! I moved two hours away from my hometown and where I went to college and it got ten degrees hotter. Ugh. I don't like hot weather. I knew what I was getting into and it's only for 4-5 years, but it's summer again. Already over 100 today. I'm planning on moving somewhere like Colorado when I get out of grad school!
Mindlab -- Greenville is so close to the country though! And the blue ridge mountains! I'm from Spartanburg :) and love Greenville. Unfortunately I now live in Columbia, otherwise known as the armpit of the state. :)
62. Jane said the following at 12:46 AM on Jun 5:
Farmer Tom,
My interest in the city comes from a need to live around as many kinds of people as possible. For one, I don't eat meat (so no need to hunt). But more importantly, i grew up in the city. my neighbors were poor and wealthy, some were schizophrenic, some were racist, but most would have given you their shirt of their back if you asked. i learned how to work with people-- all people, even "human debris". we had a child molester move in-- the mothers banded together to watch the children and the fathers, married or not, kept an eye on things. everyone worked together, watched football together, and played horseshoes together (this is in cincinnati, by the way). now i live in ann arbor, michigan (im a college student) and i cant imagine living somewhere where people mix and mingle and everyone is a potential friend. ill take the cement jungle. its where i belong.
63. Louise said the following at 5:48 AM on Jun 5:
Comment 53, please give the young people a break.
It's wonderful that you enjoy the farming life, but from what I have heard it is a difficult life and definitely not for everyone!
The young people have to go where they can find a job. Most of them will be attracted to an urban setting (as I was back in the late 1980s)and once settled in the new location they can begin the process of building a social and spiritual community, and yes, this will include finding a spouse, if that is what the young people want!
And re urban people spending too much people on stores and coffee houses, I live a good forty miles from an urban center, and there are still stores/Starbucks every place you look!
:)
64. obewan said the following at 6:37 AM on Jun 5:
Farmer Tom Says:
“>>I hope some of you grow up soon<<”
Assuming a person has a CHOICE in the matter, what on earth is immature about seeking the best possible OPTION between several? Immature would be someone with ONE job offer and NO prospects turning it down because they did not like the entertainment. Mature is someone with an appreciation for the arts as some have expressed – the culture, the symphony, museums, the ballet etc etc. Also, single people who live alone in the big city need a surrogate family until they get married. A church with a singles group is a very important thing to seek out. It is NOT entertainment it is FELLOWSHIP. In one of my posts, I lamented the abysmal 12:1 male female ratio at my church near a navy base, and you blasted me back telling me to seek a church in another town with a better ratio. Why the inconsistency now? Isn’t that suggestion the thing you now criticize? I did not see any posts in this blog that suggested being entertained at church as a search criteria. They simply expressed a need to find a “good” church. Apply your own definition. It could be a church with a good outreach to the alcoholics and homeless people among other things. Does your church have such a ministry? We are called to be salt in this world, and the inner city needs more Christians to move there to provide a witness and Christian presence.
65. AEB said the following at 6:40 AM on Jun 5:
I've got to put in my plug for Charleston. It's a small city but vibrant, and there's a huge market here for engineers and techie people of all stripes. Most folks in my church work for various Navy contractors.
Charleston is nicknamed the Holy City for all its churches. Unfortunately some of the ones with the most beautiful buildings have died spiritually, but there are probably at least three churches on any given main road, so finding fellowship is easy. The church I attend is downtown and is heavily involved in inner-city outreach. We're a young bunch with 75% of the congregation under age 40, but there are plenty of young families and you WILL get called on for nursery duty as all members are expected to pitch in whether they have kids or not.
One of the things I like about Charleston is that the entire downtown is historic. There is no "historic district" locked away to moulder; the old buildings have had their interiors updated and are still in use as boutiques, cafes and offices. Of course, there are a few preserved houses you can tour, but downtown really has an interesting interplay between its 200 year old architecture and the modern commerce that goes on. It's also a park-and-walk city with sidewalks and many parks. There are several outdoor festivals throughout the year and a solid concert season for those of you who like the symphony.
For South Carolina, Charleston is expensive, but my husband and I just moved from Miami and are finding it affordable in comparison. A one bedroom apartment in a suburb will run 5-700 dollars, depending on how fancy you want to go and where you want to live.
66. mindlab said the following at 7:07 AM on Jun 5:
53. Farmer Tom:
Thank you; seriously, I mean it. You are right to criticize unrealistic and unimportant priorities.
Also, please realize that some of us (myself, and others I'm sure) would live in the country if we could. Given the necessity of living in the concrete jungle at this point in time, questions of how to spend free time, and who to spend it with are not completely ridiculous.
Enjoy your home in the country, hopefully I'll be able to join you out there one day.
67. nab said the following at 11:37 AM on Jun 5:
Please understand some of us are called to serve and enjoy God's creation within the confines a "concrete jungle". People -- their talents, art, beauty and creativity as well as their brokenness, ugliness, desperation and sin -- are all close to God's heart. Thankfully, he's chosen vessels of his truth, justice and grace to inhabit, serve and, yes, enjoy the world's cities.
68. brx said the following at 12:41 PM on Jun 5:
Well said nab (#67)! God has made us each with variety to live and work in a diversity of environments and locations - all to His glory.
God speed as you share His love in creative ways!
69. D. Aaron Wells said the following at 12:51 PM on Jun 5:
"farmer Tom" (#53):
Uh...sir?...I don't think anyone is forcing you to read these comments. I'm not even sure what axe you have to grind, but are your words supposed to encourage us? Or were you just bragging about your well-established, happily married life so that you could prove that you are better than all of us "singles?"
Besides, there have been tons of discussions lately of pressing and moral importance, and I have not seen you, sir, weigh in on any of them to lend wisdom. Instead, you brought harsh words to a innocuous discussion about cities and what they have to offer to single, working adults on their way out of the university life and into the "real" world. I find myself annoyed at that.
So, I guess my real question is this: Are you inviting us all out to your place?
70. KendraW said the following at 2:24 PM on Jun 5:
I'm currently living in Houston and I love it. The church support group that I have here, including singles, newly-weds, long-married, and my church elder and his wife, is way more than what I had at any previous location.
To the question of living in the country and in God's creation - last time I checked God created the whole world, so city and country-side both apply.
My rent here is actually well below the price listed and it isn't in a dangerous or run-down area at all. I do live alone and have no desire to have roomates. I shared a bedroom, dormroom, and apartment all with my older sister before moving down here and I like the freedom of living alone. Of course I'm rarely at my apartment and am often out with my church friends. So, while maybe living alone allows a person to cater to their own needs it also teaches them independence. My parent's actually recommended that I live alone as they thought it would be healthier for me.
I do think that finding a good church is extrememly important, but that can be done after moving to the city. I finally found the church I am now a member of a couple of months after moving to Houston but it was well worth the wait. The preaching is biblically sound, there is an extremely active singles group, and the rest of the church still interacts around the community group boundaries.
The weather in Houston is hot and humid, but I absolutely love it. There is a lot to do and be involved in that assist in living the single years of life to the fullest and to the glory of God. For he called us to have life and have it abundantly...and not just after we were married.
71. k. said the following at 2:39 PM on Jun 5:
Tom –
You're absolutely right -- Jesus detested all that human debris in cities! That's why He instructed His followers to focus on planting gardens, raising meat, and living in charmingly bucolic locales. Probably, if we read the bible more closely, we’ll find step-by-step instructions on mulching our lawns. (Instead of things like, oh, caring for human debris.)
Most of the things you desire for your children also involve food and entertainment, including go-karts, kites, catch, swimming, and BB guns. Your idea of fun is just different than the green spaces/coffee/etc that some other people here favor.
Although I’m sure this point is completely wasted on you, not everybody has to be the same, live in the same area, or enjoy the same things. And often, younger people have different perspectives in seeking out a church than a middle-aged man with a family, farm, and a cranky disposition does. These priorities will grow and shift as their life circumstances change. You should be glad that they’re actively seeking a church family, instead of slamming them for not being like you.
72. Sarah Elizabeth said the following at 4:29 PM on Jun 5:
I've had the privilege of living in a suburb (wiht a lot of good ole' folks) and living in a city for college...
I've found how much alcohol you drink and how much you spend on coffeeshops/stores, etc depend mostly on your friends and their spending habits. If you're with peopple who like to go out a lot and drink or simply freuqently purchase a 6pack of beer to enjoy then your going to drink more alcohol.
As for church and whther you spend more time with 20's vs people of all ages-I've found it depends on the size of the church. The smaller the church, the more likely you are to interact with multiple ages. THe larger the church, the more likely they are to be segregated by age. If you are in a large church, i recommend finding a way to interact with other ages-for example, in college, at a huge church, I joined a women's bible study and my friend and I were the youngest-the ages ranged up through about 60! I loved it!
As for worrying about the little seemingly 'unimportant' matters inc choosing where to live..you have to make a decision somehow! Obviously, you need a job or jobs available and need to be able to find housing, and find a good church, but frankly as we've noticed from multiple people all talking a bout where they live and how it works-you can find those things in many place! What then becomes your way of making a decision? You have to look to the smaller things-thie things you personally find important. The things that make your day. Or the areas in which you can serve the ministries you have been called to. Unless God has specifically directed in a direction and you are ignoring him, I dont see how paying attention to the 'small things' a place has to offer is so wrong.
For instance-it was suggested to worship God through enjoying nature, thus the country is the ideal place. What if your someone who enjoys seeing hundreds of people throughout the day and thinking about them, talking to them, praying for them(even when they have no idea). For some, having to walk to work a few city blocks might be their tim eto connect with God while focusing on those people around them.
If you are someone who enjoys reading about God/laerning and improving your mind, it may be important live near a large library or perhaps near a univeristy.
Nature is an amazing way to experience Gods glory-however it is not the only way.
73. Stanhope said the following at 11:45 PM on Jun 5:
On the apparent belief that cheap housing is what defines a great city, this article seems to have omitted two of the greatest cities in the country: San Francisco and Washington DC. Both are sophisticated, cultured cities with populations that skew toward the highly educated, politically active, and well-compensated.
Expensive? Of course. SF 1 BRs run $1600 - 2000 (more for views of the Golden Gate Bridge). But that's because people love living in these cities. Sure, you could save $1000 a month by living in Atlanta or Detroit ....but then you're living in Atlanta or Detroit.
Oh, and I gotta thank Farmer Tom for reminding me why I prefer the urban over the rural/suburban -- there are a lot fewer smug, self-righteous people telling us that their chosen lifestyle is the one that everybody else should adopt.
74. Carrie (the original) said the following at 10:38 AM on Jun 6:
Stanhope (#73)
Atlanta, like Detroit, has its bad parts. It's not all bad. Detroit is much more beyond hope than Atlanta. Atlanta is actually a decent city to live in - if you like living in cities. If you're looking for it, Atlanta has it.
One should not put Atlanta in Detroit into the same category. I grew up just north of Detroit and I now live 2 hours north of Atlanta.
One is not at liberty to knock either of 'em if they haven't tried 'em.
75. PLH said the following at 11:10 AM on Jun 6:
To an extent I agree with Stanhope (73). Cheap housing is not the only criteria for living in a city. Additionally, while housing might be cheap in a city, if there is no public transportation, you will pay far more for gas and car maintenance. In SF or NYC, housing is expensive but public transportation is excellent so you don't need a car. Also, gas is often cheaper and food in NJ than other parts of the country...so other expenses should be considered.
76. Jenny said the following at 10:44 PM on Jun 6:
Thanks for responding, guys...it was helpful!
77. Daniel said the following at 10:15 PM on Jun 9:
I think Apartment prices and job availability top the list on priorities. (as far as entry level jobs I think that will vary greatly depending upon fields of study though alot of those cities have amazing amounts of business jobs they may not have nearly as many of (insert your field here) might be worth keeping in mind as you just get out of college and definately worth researching if your considering picking up and moving anytime soon just in case that perfect job your sure you'll get falls through.
78. Jennifer said the following at 1:29 PM on Jun 10:
Great questions, Jenny (#26). I'm acquainted with urban life vs. the 'burbs. So I can provide some perspective.
- Do you ever miss the country?
Absolutely. The country has charm you can't ge anywhere else. But as a single woman, prospects out in the sticks just aren't good for meeting men.
- Do you find having stores and coffee shops around you constantly drains your wallet, or are you able to control your spending habits after a time?
That's a big thing about city-living that people don't warn you about. Sure, there's more to do but it all costs money. I spend so much on eating out and going to shows. If you want an active social life, be prepared to pay for it (literally).
- Do you think being surrounded by 20-somethings prevents you from reaping the benefits of interaction with children and elderly?
Children and the elderly live in the city too. If you make the effort to put them in your social circle, it's not a problem.
- Do you end up taking part in the activities and programs offered to you, or do you keep to yourself as much as you would have in suburbia after a couple of years?
You can be as active as you want to. Depends on the person.
- Do you think living on your own or with room mates could influence your moral decisions, as opposed to living with parents or siblings?
Pick your roommates wisely! I've lived with my parents, on my own and with roommates, and it definitely affects your choices. But that's also part of being an adult. You make your own decisions and reap the benefits/consequences.
- Do you end up consuming more alcohol than you would had you not chosen to live in the city?
I don't think this is a city vs. suburbs kind of thing. Lots of people live in the cities and don't drink for various reasons. If you're a drinker, you'll find a way to drink no matter where you live.
79. niki said the following at 5:27 PM on Aug 27:
sweet deal. i live in philly!