Does God Care Who Wins?
by Thomas Jeffries on 06/18/2008 at 9:45 AM
Two weeks ago it was the Red Wings over the Penguins for the Stanley Cup. Last night it was the Celtics over the Lakers for the NBA Championship. And in both cases, Boundless readers had plenty to say -- some of them quite passionately -- about their favored teams.
I remember more than one occasion when I was younger, when the score was perilously close heading into the final minutes, I would fold my hands and bow my head during a time-out (the commercial breaks were mercifully shorter back then) to say a quick prayer for my team of choice. Something haunting and poetic, such as: Dear Lord, please help [my team] to win. Please! There were no mentions of honorable competition or good sportsmanship or character building of any kind. Plain and simple, I wanted my favorite to emerge victorious. I wasn't concerned with the other team's hopes and dreams, what they were going through, or even how many fans were praying for them. Just give us the win, in Jesus' name!
To be honest, I don't ever recall uttering those prayers in Christ's name, because deep down I somehow knew that Jesus probably wasn't taking sides in the Super Bowl or the World Series. Indeed, as I got older and more mature in my faith, my fervent pleas for a God-sanctioned win became more infrequent. Eventually I stopped saying them altogether.
That's right -- I no longer believe that God plays a major role in the outcome of sporting events. I don't believe He tallies up the number of professing Christians on each team. For that matter, I don't believe He counts the number of heathens, either. Most of the time, it's the team that plays the best defense, or whose shots are falling, or simply the one that "wants it more" that ends up hoisting the trophy. I don't care how enthusiastically a coach or athlete credits God in the post-game interview, I am convinced that speed, strength, skill and coaching have more do with winning than currying the favor of heaven.
Am I suggesting that God doesn't care about professional sports? Well, kind of. I have no doubt that He cares immensely about each player and coach and every single person involved in every single game or match, but I don't for a second believe that He's rooting for one club over another -- because that means that for every team He chooses to win, He must also pick another team to lose. (Sounds a bit Calvinist when you think about it, but that's another debate.) Perhaps I've watched too many rosters filled with believers get blown out by the statistical leaders in nightclub brawls and out-of-wedlock-children.
Now, my personal theology won't keep me from cheering for my favorite team when a championship is on the line. In fact, I will even admit to still bowing my head on occasion. But the words I use nowadays are a bit different: Dear Lord, please help [my team] to play their best. And if they happen to win -- well, that's certainly OK with me.
So, do you think God heeds the prayers of loyal sports fans? Have you ever prayed for your team to win?
1. Jacob said the following at 9:59 AM on Jun 18:
No offense, but this sounds like the classic Sacred/Sports dichotomy.
2. Mike Theemling said the following at 10:24 AM on Jun 18:
The fact is that there are Christians on both sides (either on the team itself or fans) petitioning God to grant them victory. Obviously, God can't say "Yes" to both.
I don't know honestly if God is much involved in the outcome of major sporting events. Part of me though believes that He is, simply because all things can be used for His glory. And even the seemingly mundane can play a role in affecting people's lives.
3. (Canadian) Andrew R. said the following at 10:29 AM on Jun 18:
I play hockey (not that well, but that's beside the point), and there are points in the game when my opponent is on a breakway, and I'll silently pray he doesn't score, but he still does. There are other points when the other team is crashing our net and somehow we manage to stop the puck from going in, and I quickly breath a word of thanks to God. Did God stop the puck from going in? I doubt it, but it's still good to give thanks.
Before each game, either in the dressing room or before I head to the rink, I always pray, not that we'll win, but that both teams will play their best, that everyone will have fun, that no one will get hurt, the refs will make fair calls and I'll get plenty of ice time. That's what really matters (and it's a good thing, because my team is awful!).
4. Tim said the following at 10:36 AM on Jun 18:
Isn't it true though that the sky is blue and the clouds are white because God is a Leafs fan??
5. Kate said the following at 10:50 AM on Jun 18:
Well, the Steelers are prayed for every Sunday of football season in my mother's Sunday school class. Whether it works or not? Let's see if we get to another Superbowl before I give an answer on that.
6. mary kate said the following at 10:59 AM on Jun 18:
i just really like hockey. i want to see a good game, with good passes and puckhandling, and some good hitting, too. heck i even appreciate a good fight. i don't care too much about who wins, cause the NHL team closest to me isn't very good (blue jackets). however, our ECHL Cyclones just won the kelly cup!
end randomness.
7. Matt from DC said the following at 11:00 AM on Jun 18:
God has either caused or allowed every event on any scale since he spoke this universe into creation. God is so powerful and immense that every event takes place in his presence. God is a grand architect who has created the universe with the purpose of it bringing him glory. Therefore, God cares about any event, no matter how small or large, because it plays a crucial role in glorifying him. From our point of view we can only be sure of this secret sovereign will of God once it has already happened. However, we know that from his point of view he knows all that will come to pass. Again, all that ever has been or ever will be plays a necessary part of glorifying God and God cares about being glorified.
This does not exclude what you think is little or secular or unimportant. Many times what appears to be a ripple in one place and time turns into a large wave later on. Consider the single God fearing act of Rahab to hide the Israelite spies. Does she matter? Very much. She was Boaz’s grandmother and he was the great-grand father of King David and he is the ancestor of Christ. Consider Saul’s partial obedience of Samuel’s command at Gilgal concerning the destruction the Philistine city. Does following the whole command matter? Very much. Right away what seemed to Saul to be a little thing cost him his kingship.
If events were disconnected and one outcome didn't serve as the cause for the next then I might agree with you. If God was less powerful and only had time to care for the big stuff then I might agree with you. If I thought the Orioles only won games because of their skill then I might agree with you. May God bless the Orioles because they need all the help they can get - Go Os!
8. Steven said the following at 11:04 AM on Jun 18:
Well, if you remember correctly, the Red Sox fans were praying for a miracle when they were down 0-3 and came back to win it. Who knows, but if it can glorify God then why not?
9. Kelly said the following at 11:35 AM on Jun 18:
I do not understand sport.
Seriously, why do we get so passionate about something that has no meaning in the greater scheme of life? If you were the person playing, I could understand, but watching...?
I just don't get it.
10. Justice said the following at 12:01 PM on Jun 18:
Yo sucka foo,
When the Rams won the Super bowl, the three players involved in the winning plays for the Rams were all Christians... The quarterback who threw for the GW touchdown, the guy who caught it and the guy who made the GW tackled a few minutes later.
Kelly,
with that logic, why cheer for someone that you are watching, say a friend?
11. Samuel PG said the following at 12:28 PM on Jun 18:
The truth is, I do pray for my teams from time to time. Does God care about the outcome of each game? Yes and no. I doubt He considers the final score to matter much, but consider how many things are different depending on which team wins any given game. It is a sort of butterfly effect. For example, if the A's win this game, it impacts their morale and the morale of the opposing team which affects their future games. It has an impact, however slight, in the emotions of the fans of both teams, perhaps causing some to have anger which will be taken out on those around them, perhaps causing some to celebrate with drunkenness. It also has an impact on players' standings, which has an impact on which team they will be playing for in a few years, which city they will be moving their family to, how much money they will make, and how their victories or defeats will shape them as a person. A game might provide the necessary push that will land a team in the playoffs, and the better a team does in the playoffs the more revenue they will make from TV spots and from future fans filling seats at games next season. This can lead to the building of a new stadium, the hiring of new grounds crew members, more marketing and increased sales of gear with the team logo, all of which has an impact on the local economy. This is only a very small sampling of the potential impact of any one game, and it seems to me that the outcome of any game has a huge, if intangible, effect.
So the question is, does God ever intervene in a game? I do not know, but perhaps. Is there any harm in praying for your team, not just for victory but also for their character and salvation? I think not. If I pray that my team wins a game and God knows that they should not, I trust that His wisdom will rule. Why not ask, though? It may be silly to pray about it, but can't God handle a bit of our silliness? Who knows how many of our other prayers are equally silly.
On a more humorous note, you had better pray for your team just to cancel out the prayers for the other team.
12. Michaela said the following at 12:31 PM on Jun 18:
I have jokingly made comments that God loves Husker football. Sea of Red anyone? But in all reality, I don't think he actually has a favorite team. It's just nice to think that :)
13. BDB said the following at 4:14 PM on Jun 18:
I vaguely remember this being addressed in an episode of South Park.
One character says, "Jesus, help us win!"
The "camera" pans over to Jesus, sitting in the stands.
He says, "Leave me alone."
(Note: when it's on Comedy Central, a lot is bleeped out, it's MUCH less offensive thant SATC, but I digress.)
14. Gene said the following at 6:11 PM on Jun 18:
And what does an unbelieving world think of this? Here's one example.
15. James said the following at 8:19 PM on Jun 18:
I'd say that YES He is involved since He is sovereign over everything. Not even the leaf on a tree falls without His sovereign approval.
With that said, however, I know that He does not heed vain prayers. Just like a father does not listen to his kids when they get the "gimmee"s in the checkout aisle at the grocery store (though he hears them and cares about them deeply), God does not listen to our vain prayers for something so vain as a sporting event victory. Well, not in general.
It's about the motives and the heart of the believer praying (since we know that the only prayer that God hears from an unbeliever is one of asking to be forgiven through Christ), and since most of the time our prayers for a sports victory are selfish (why do we want the victory? to see OUR team win. what does the victory merit? nothing of lasting or eternal significance) and not at all honoring to God, He does not heed them. Though, I'm certain that He'd heed and answer a genuine prayer for something regarding a sporting event depending on what is being prayed for. For example: the ability to get tickets so that you can treat a dear friend to a good game, or something.
This applies to all things, actually. Our God is an omnisovereign (sovereign over all things), omnipotent, omnicient, ever-lasting, good, Holy, and loving God. Not even a blade of grass withers without Him allowing it. Now, He has not revealed to us the secret things not shown to us in His Word, but He is still in sovereign command of them anyways. This includes, of course, sporting events.
16. Leah said the following at 11:27 PM on Jun 18:
Just some other questions to throw into the mix:
~ Is it different if we're actually playing rather than just watching a game? (eg. "Lord, please help me to win" VS "Lord, please help win".)
~ Is there a difference between praying to win and praying to achieve something specific in the game? (eg. "Lord, please let win!" VS "Lord, please help take the tackle!")
~ Consequently, is it different if we pray that about ourselves in our own game? (eg. "Lord, please help me win" VS "Lord, please help me keep this goal safe".)
~ Is it different when you're watching a friend play? (eg. "Lord, please help win" or "Lord, please help hit a 6".)
~ Is it different to pray for something outside the game which might affect the game? (eg. if the best player on your team has an injured knee, praying "Lord, please help 's knee get better for the game"; or, if your team is used to playing in the rain and the other team isn't, praying "Lord, please let it rain"; or, if a good player in next week's opposition team is facing suspension, praying "Lord, please let get suspended".)
Having said that, here are my thoughts/beliefs:
Does God care who wins in sport games? I think there are times he might, but for the most part, I doubt it.
Do I pray for my teams to win? Rarely, if ever. However, (and this is where some of my questions came from) if a player on my rugby league team is only just keeping an opponent off the tryline, I might pray for him to hold up. Or if a player on my team is taking a penalty kick, I might pray for him to get it between the goalposts. So, I don't think I ever pray about outcomes, but I may pray about individual plays.
However, I rarely do, mostly because I feel it's a very trivial thing to ask God to intervene in and ultimately of pretty much no importance. But then I ask myself, is there such thing as "too small" when it comes to prayer?
We keep getting told there's no such thing as "too big" or "too small", and while I'm not out to reject that, I also ask myself, is that just something we get taught in Sunday School or is it actually biblical?
If it IS biblical, and there really IS no such thing as "too small", is it then ok to pray for our teams' results?
All that aside, I'd never say "I no longer believe that God plays a major role in the outcome of sporting events". If there's a reason for God to- and I wouldn't rule that out- then I'd readily believe God might affect the outcome of a game.
Gene- haha. That made me grin.
17. Mason Moore said the following at 11:39 PM on Jun 18:
Wow -- I'd sure hate to try to explain to grieving parents that the prayers to save the life of their leukemia-stricken toddler went unheeded ... yet God answered the touchdown prayers of a football fan.
18. Amber said the following at 8:09 AM on Jun 19:
Sports is a topic I am quite passionate about, especially when it involves Jesus. I play Division 1 basketball at a secular university. Before every game, I have the privilege of leading my team in prayer. I always ask God to help us win. James 4:2 says "You do not have, because you do not ask God." Now if you continue reading, it talks about not receiving because of asking with wrong motives.
My point is that basketball is extremely important to me. Besides the point that it paid for my college degree, I love the game. God knows this, and he also knows how to give good gifts. (Matt 7:11) So in the same way I will tell my parents what I want for Christmas or my birthday, I will unashamedly let my heavenly father know that I want to win the game (along with protection from injury, fair reffing, etc.)
That being said, have I won every game? No. But God knows best. James 1:2-4 "Consider it pure joy...when you face trials...because the testing of your faith develops perseverence..."
19. xeres said the following at 3:07 PM on Jun 19:
Gene and Mason,
(sigh), can anyone just have some fun a little bit? This is suppose to be a light-hearted post. I admit this is funny even though I hardly watched sports. Let's not go into the Envangelical guilt thing.
20. Christina (in green) said the following at 8:48 PM on Jun 19:
And yet, if this were true, don't you think the Colorado Rockies would have a better record than they do?
I do think that if, in even the tiniest way, it can bring glory to God, then he'll make it happen, whether its winning or losing.
Think Angels in the Outfield =p (I so love that movie!)
21. Leah said the following at 11:49 PM on Jun 19:
ARGH- I'm sorry, everyone, this stupid comments section doesn't accept pointed brackets, ie. < and > - so half of my example questions lost their meaning in my post. I'll repost them here with square brackets instead so you understand what I was getting at :P
~ Is it different if we're actually playing rather than just watching a game? (eg. "Lord, please help me to win" VS "Lord, please help [team] win".)
~ Is there a difference between praying to win and praying to achieve something specific in the game? (eg. "Lord, please let [team] win!" VS "Lord, please help [specific player] take the tackle!")
~ Consequently, is it different if we pray that about ourselves in our own game? (eg. "Lord, please help me win" VS "Lord, please help me keep this goal safe".)
~ Is it different when you're watching a friend play? (eg. "Lord, please help [friend] win" or "Lord, please help [friend] hit a 6".)
~ Is it different to pray for something outside the game which might affect the game? (eg. if the best player on your team has an injured knee, praying "Lord, please help [player]'s knee get better for the game"; or, if your team is used to playing in the rain and the other team isn't, praying "Lord, please let it rain"; or, if a good player in next week's opposition team is facing suspension, praying "Lord, please let [player] get suspended".)
22. Brandon said the following at 2:55 AM on Jun 22:
If you hit a home run, would you give God thanks? If you hit a basketball shot, would you give God thanks? If you scored a rushing touchdown, would you give God thanks?
If you would, ask yourself what specifically you are thanking God for. If you're thanking God for letting you live/exist and therefore play the game at all, then that's fine. But if you are giving thanks to God for somehow being *involved* in your home run/basket/touchdown, then you call into question whether humans even have the ability to do those things.
In other words, is it even possible to hit a baseball out of the park, hit a jump shot, or score a touchdown without God's help? If you give that ability/responsibility to God, then where does it end?
Is it even possible to lift a baseball bat without God's help? I think you'd all agree that of course you can. Then why couldn't you hit a home run without God's help? And if you can hit a home run without God's help and other people on your team can do the same, then you can win a game without God's help.
So, the only reason to thank God for a victory is only in the sense of "Thanks for letting me exist". Any other sort of thanks which implies that God had an actual hand in the game opens up a can of worms which eventually questions whether any of our actions are actually our own as opposed to God's supernatural puppeteering of your life.
23. Matt from DC said the following at 8:03 AM on Jun 23:
Brandon in 22,
"Thanks for letting me exist" - what rubbish. Reconcile your teaching with the Word of God. The following verses demonstrate people thanking God for specific help (past mere existence).
Exodus 18:4 and the other was named Eliezer, for he said, "My father's God was my helper; he saved me from the sword of Pharaoh."
1 Samuel 14:45
But the men said to Saul, "Should Jonathan die—he who has brought about this great deliverance in Israel? Never! As surely as the LORD lives, not a hair of his head will fall to the ground, for he did this today with God's help."
2 Samuel 22:30
With your help I can advance against a troop ; with my God I can scale a wall.
1 Chronicles 5:20
They were helped in fighting them, and God handed the Hagrites and all their allies over to them, because they cried out to him during the battle. He answered their prayers, because they trusted in him.
2 Chronicles 14:11
Then Asa called to the LORD his God and said, "LORD, there is no one like you to help the powerless against the mighty. Help us, O LORD our God, for we rely on you, and in your name we have come against this vast army. O LORD, you are our God; do not let man prevail against you."
Psalm 30:2
O LORD my God, I called to you for help and you healed me.
Psalm 56:9
Then my enemies will turn back when I call for help. By this I will know that God is for me.
Is 41:13
For I am the LORD, your God, who takes hold of your right hand and says to you, Do not fear; I will help you.
Eph 5:19-20
Speak to one another with psalms, hymns and spiritual songs. Sing and make music in your heart to the Lord, 20always giving thanks to God the Father for everything, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.
To shatter your main point is Hebrews 1:3: "The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word." Oh snap, Jesus Christ sustains all things... so my being is held together by Him? I am indeed a little fish.
I am also reminded of James' warning: James 4:13-14
Now listen, you who say, "Today or tomorrow we will go to this or that city, spend a year there, carry on business and make money." Why, you do not even know what will happen tomorrow. What is your life? You are a mist that appears for a little while and then vanishes.
Can't people go from one city to another? Not unless God has ordained it. We are not puppets, but we are not all-sovereign.
24. R Biehn said the following at 10:20 AM on Jun 23:
At the risk of oversimplifying things, here's my view.
Sport in the western world (and elsewhere) can easily degenerate from healthy diversion and recreational activity to idolatry, especially where professional sport is concerned. The overwhelming consideration in such cases for pretty much any participant is winning. The only participants who don't care about winning are irrelevant lookers-on or losers trying to assemble a moral victory. Therefore my belief is that God "lets the best team win" or may interfere to cause the team to lose that has all those small-minded people praying for it to kind of give 'em a slap and help 'em see that maybe there's something they should be worshipping besides sports. "you shall have no other gods before me" and all that.
I'm sure that there's no harm in enjoying a well-played game as a participant or an onlooker, but if you think that your team has entitlement to divine help, you need a perspective adjustment.
25. Leah said the following at 6:24 PM on Jun 24:
Matt from DC- those references you gave were talking about life & death situations, OR, situations where God has specifically commanded something, and so he pitches in to make it happen. There are certainly no examples discussing anything as trivial as a sports game.
I'm not saying whether God intervenes in sports or not; I don't know; I'm simply saying those verses add nothing to the discussion.
You also said To shatter your main point is Hebrews 1:3: "The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word." Oh snap, Jesus Christ sustains all things... so my being is held together by Him? I am indeed a little fish.
Huh? You seem to think saying "Thanks for letting me exist" is something rubbish to say... then seem to think your victory lies in saying that God is the one who holds us together... that's exactly the same thing!
26. Matt from DC said the following at 11:14 AM on Jun 25:
Leah,
I see you don't understand the point I was trying to respond to. In his post Brandon said, "Any other sort of thanks which implies that God had an actual hand in the game...questions whether any of our actions are actually our own." That view is not informed by what the scripture has said about how God intervenes in the world. Also, based on the way it was phrased it is easy to disprove.
The topic at hand is how minute of a thing does God care about (even baseball game outcomes?). Further, knowing this - how shall we pray. Brandon puts forward the idea that because God isn't involved in things like hitting home runs or winning baseball games that the only proper prayer of thanksgiving is: "So, the only reason to thank God for a victory is only in the sense of "Thanks for letting me exist".
That just isn't true.
So, to counter his point I cited verses where people thanked God for doing something specific - not just thanks for letting me exist. The idea here is that if holy people prayed and God accepted and answered their prayers then God must have liked their prayers. So those examples tell us that God answers specific prayer and that thanksgiving may be specific as well. The importance of the events cited relative to the importance of a baseball game has nothing to do with the relevance of the citations. Giving thanks and glory to God for events has nothing to do with their importance, but everything to do with the recognition and praise of the one who is behind all things. Next, I moved on to say that because Jesus actively sustains the universe He created that God is involved in every aspect of everything. If that is true then Jesus' power allows people to hit home runs and win baseball games. This opens up his "can of worms" because the verse says that Jesus is actively involved in the universe which Brandon denies in regard to human performance. I conclude with my resolution to the can of worms - "We are not puppets, but we are not all-sovereign." This statement affirms our free will/capability and that our will is limited in power.
If you are looking for my direct response to the post see comment number 7.
27. Brandon said the following at 4:43 AM on Jun 27:
Matt--
Help me figure out where Jesus enters into this picture:
1. You pick up a bat.
Now, did Jesus help you to do this? Did God create humans with the physical ability to lift up bats without divine intervention?
2. You swing the bat.
Did Jesus help you do this? Did God create humans with the physical ability to swing bats without divine intervention?
3. You hit a fastball.
Did Jesus help you do this? Did God create humans with the physical ability to hit a fastball without divine intervention?
4. You hit a home run.
Is this where Jesus is needed? Did God create humans with the physical ability to hit home runs without divine intervention?
You say that Jesus sustains all things. Am I to take that to mean that Jesus is supernaturally involved in each step? In other words, if Jesus wasn't suddenly involved in, say, step #2, do humans become incapable of swinging a bat?
If Jesus is NOT directly responsible for your home run, then the only thanks you should give him is "Thanks for letting me play the game or, in other words, thanks for letting me exist."
If Jesus IS directly responsible for your home run, then I wonder where human ability even begins since that would mean that Jesus is supernaturally pulling strings at every end. At what point do our actions cease to be due to our own free will and take on a supernatural influence?
Pretty interesting how every accomplishment a human makes equals: "Well, humans alone are incapable of that--so that was Jesus." Who, by the way, must do the same for non-believers because they accomplish things, too.
28. Matt from DC said the following at 10:59 AM on Jun 27:
Brandon,
We are barely on topic now since we're discussing the conflict you see between divine will and sovereignty against human free will and ability. That doesn't bother me, but I understand if the moderators don't approve our comments. You can email me directly at my firstnamelastname@firstnamelastname.com.
In a broad sense you're putting the emphasis on the wrong syl-lab-le here. Just because Jesus is sustaining all things doesn't mean that we're puppets. Just because we do things doesn't mean that Jesus has nothing to do with them.
I think a lot of our disagreement hinges on what each of us means when we say "divine intervention". I say that scripture says that God chose, before time began, all things that would take place, that God created all that is, and that God personally keeps all things going. This is his universe. I mean that sovereign choice, the power of creation, and the act of sustaining is God intervening. It seems that when you say divine intervention you mean God stepping in and doing something miraculous and further that the benefactors of this intervention relinquish free will. These are big differences and I don't see Biblical support for your position. I would like to see it if you have it.
Back to your prayer: "Thanks for letting me play the game or, in other words, thanks for letting me exist." If your view about God's intervention is correct then we should find no scriptural example or exhortations to pray anything other than "Thanks for letting me exist." Here's the apostle Paul in Ephesians 5:19-20: "Speak to one another with psalms, hymns and spiritual songs. Sing and make music in your heart to the Lord, always giving thanks to God the Father for everything, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ." What should we be thankful for? Everything. This is straight from the pen of the apostle to the Gentiles. Shall I thank God for my ability to hit a home run? Yes. Shall I thank God for open parking spaces? Sure. Shall I thank God for protection in a freak accident? Yes. Shall I thank God for holding the molecules of my body together? Yes. Why? Because these are all pieces of everything. In my last comment I cited several examples of people praying for thanksgiving for specific things and some even said that God helped them achieve what they could not. Do those Bible verses bother you? I imagine they would.
It is almost funny how far you went to attack the straw man that you made. You are right, though, your conclusion is faulty. That's not because what I'm saying is wrong, but because your assumptions were incorrect.
To get a better understanding of the Biblical view that I'm putting forward let's read Job 1-2 & 40-42. I would love to discuss how your view and mine are supported, refuted, or reconciled by that text.
Matt Lawson
29. Brandon said the following at 12:37 AM on Jul 12:
In case anyone ever reads through these comments, I sent Matt (#28) a personal email and he never responded with an answer. Here is what I said:
Matt, you say, "scripture says that God chose, before time began, all things that would take place, that God created all that is, and that God personally keeps all things going."
What do you mean by God "personally keeps all things going"? Because if you believe God created a universe that is self-sustaining, he wouldn't need to personally keep things going. If, on the other hand, you believe that the universe is not self-sustaining, then personally keeping things going would be God "stepping in and doing something miraculous".
All your examples of thanking God for parking spaces, holding your body together, etc. is the same thing as simply saying, "Thanks for letting me exist." Job could tell you that.
And I really would like you to answer the question I had about where Jesus steps in when it comes time to hit a baseball. At what point in steps 1-4 does the supernatural enter into the physical world?
Thanks for continuing the discussion.
30. Bobby Pancione said the following at 7:25 AM on Aug 29:
I couldn't agree with you more!! I actually get offended when a player does the "sign of the cross" when getting ready to return a kickoff. Is God going to give that player the "ability" to run it back for a touchdown? What about the Christian on the other side of the field praying to God to make the tackle? Whom does God choose? It's absolutely ridiculous!! Now if the guy was praying to God to avoid injury then that's a different story....that is God's will. But I do npt believe God cares one iota about which team wins. I get a kick out of the boxers at the end of the bout who thank God for the ability to win. Yea, God gave him the ability to beat the snot out of another of God's beloved. Please!!! I'll even take it a step further....I get a kick out of the people when a hurricane is on the way toward them and thank God that it made a turn and hit another town. They say,"God is good." So what about the thousands of Christians in the town that got devestated that were also praying to God not to be hit?? God gave us the Garden of Eden and it was perfect. When Adam and Eve sinned, they blew it for the rest and we just have to live with what happens. Only if it is God's will there would be a change. Is it God's will for anyone to get blasted by a hurricane? Of course not! That is just the direction the hurricane happened to take.