What Women Can Do to Help Marriage Happen
by Ted Slater on 05/09/2008 at 2:02 PM
You're a single Christian woman, and you have in your head that you're not supposed to initiate relationships; that's the guy's role. And yet it's your heart's desire to be married, to enjoy your husband, to raise children.
So how might you get from where you are now to where you want to be?
Among other things, you can pray. While prayer seems more mystical and less practical than other things you could try, it is truly effective. After all, it consists of presenting your requests before the Creator of the universe. He not only cares for you, but is able to do something about your situation.
And you could invite friends to join you in prayer. Nothing at all wrong with that.
Speaking of practical, let me be practical: Click right now over to the Women Praying Boldly Web site and join their community. It's free, the fellowship is encouraging, and you'll have friends who'll pray for you, and for whom you too can pray.
This may seem like a shameless plug for a friend of mine, but it's really not. It's about helping you do what you can to help marriage happen.
It's a puzzling biblical truth that sometimes we "do not have, because we do not ask." I implore you to join the community of women at Women Praying Boldly, and then, with them by your side, to go ahead and ask.
101. Carrie (the original) said the following at 2:50 PM on May 20:
Dan,
how long should I wait for my friend to speak with the other person? My friend at first thought she would wait until summer. Would it be wrong of me to suggest expediting it?
There are so many details that are unknown to anyone not directly involved. It is difficult to answer your question well.
With that said, let me advise that rushing things is hardly ever wise. As hard as it is, you must wait for the Lord to reveal things in His timing. This is an very abstract concept because it works out itself differently in every situation.
Let me just say that I am right there with you as far as questions about "a possibility". I know that the absolute worst thing I can do is rush things and be anxious. If things are meant to work out, they will.
Just remember that the Lord has your good in mind, even if it means some sort of temporary pain.
102. Tami said the following at 3:00 PM on May 20:
Hi, Dan (real name) (41, 100) -- I wouldn't wait too long, unless it's someone your friend doesn't see all that often. The last time someone set me up with his friend, it took about a month for me to meet him... but the guy lived many miles away and only came to my hometown once in a while.
There might also be reasons your friend wants to wait until summer - maybe it has to do with the girl's schedule? See if you can (nonintrusively) find out or figure out why she wants to wait so long.
While timeliness is a virtue, impatience is not. If your friend senses that you're impatient, then she'll get irritated. But a nice reminder doesn't hurt. "Hi friend -- remember you said you'd set me up with Susie this summer? Well, it's getting close to Memorial Day, which is often considered the official start to summer. So how 'bout a picnic? :)"
In your case, you might even want to help things along by offering to get a small group outing together... something that encourages conversation but it's not so obviously a setup. A group dinner at a fun restaurant is a good idea -- especially something family style, where you're sharing and there's a lot of interaction. Another idea is a potluck.
Those are my suggestions... I'm sure others will have good ones too.
103. Christina (in green) said the following at 3:12 PM on May 20:
Dan (question in #41),
First of all, are you only asking for an introduction? In which case, sounds like a good idea. However, if you want your friend to "set you up" and you are waiting for her to do that, then I'd suggest you get the balls to set yourself up (no offense).
Once that is established and its the former and not the latter reason for getting your friend involved, perhaps ask your friend why she is waiting so long to provide an introduction (without requiring details). There may be some things in the other girl's life that your friend is being sensitive about and giving her time to sort those things out before adding you to the mix.
If its just because your friend is embarrassed or because she questions your motives in requesting an introduction, i suggest you sit down and have a heart to heart with your friend about why exactly you require an introduction instead of you introducing yourself.
Waiting on your friend to do something extraordinary is kind of like praying that God somehow help you meet the girl standing outside the Humanitarian building with her books in arm and expecting God to have you run into her in the hall one day, knock her books out of her arms, and you proceed to help her pick up the books.
Sometimes, God requires us to do something in order for him to do something extraordinary...like a shy and timid young man without much social grace seeing that girl, and instead of waiting for God to orchestrate a chance run-in, goes up to her and introduces himself. That took guts. And guess where the strength to do that came from? For that timid young man, the strength to go up to a girl and introduce oneself comes only from God - and that is something extraordinary.
104. Rachel L said the following at 3:34 PM on May 20:
Dan (41 and 100). Sorry your question got lost in this flurry!
"Just wondering from a gals perspective - so if I ask a friend of mine to help me meet another person (someone specific in mind) - how long should I wait for my friend to speak with the other person? My friend at first thought she would wait until summer. Would it be wrong of me to suggest expediting it?"
Is there a particular reason for your friend wishing to wait for the summer? Chances are, this friend knows the young lady and her life circumstances better than you do. If she has a specific reason, then it might be prudent to wait. The young lady may be going through some sort of personal issue, dealing with a lot of stress, or just in a general frame of mind that would decrease your chance of success.
If, however, your friend just figures that summer is a better time for all things because everyone is more laid back and peaceful (or some other such reason) or because she doesn't want to make the extra effort at this time, then I don't think there is a problem with respectfully asking if it can be hastened.
If this young lady is like most of us here on Boundless, she won't mind meeting someone sooner rather than later. :)
105. Rachael said the following at 3:52 PM on May 20:
Dan (41, 100):
"so if I ask a friend of mine to help me meet another person (someone specific in mind) - how long should I wait for my friend to speak with the other person? My friend at first thought she would wait until summer. Would it be wrong of me to suggest expediting it?"
-->It's kind-of hard to respond to this question without knowing the whole situation. If there is no good reason your friend thought it would be good to wait, why not expedite it? But if your friend knows the girl well and has good reasons for this decision it might be fine to wait. It's kind-of hard to say without knowing the whole picture...hope things go well for you :)
106. Chris Krycho said the following at 4:08 PM on May 20:
I meant to highlight and comment on this particular point before. Lola, you wrote, "Let the guys pray about getting married and then act...Let the guys ask around about us, let them do their research without risking hurting us."
I have a question for you. I preface this with the very serious statement that it has always been my intent to do whatever possible to avoid hurting the women in my life, including in the realm of romance, particularly by being the one to take the risks of leading and initiating. With that understood clearly: Why is the man the only one who has to risk pain?
What you are suggesting is a system in which all of the burden is on the man pursuing (and on the families involved): and none is on the woman. There is no risk for her in the system you suggest. Why? In what way is this right? I hold strongly to the belief that the risk of initiation is the man's, and it is indeed a great risk. Yet the risk of response, belonging to woman, is a great risk as well: and it is through that risk that a woman grows in her trust and reliance upon God. I do not speak only from theory (though certainly I think the view supported by Scripture) but by experience and watching precisely that happen.
Would you care to explain where, beyond the single example of Isaac and Rebecca, you are drawing the theology you have propounded here?
107. BDB said the following at 5:25 PM on May 20:
Jessica (#94) wrote:
"Blush and Run"
Well, that's a very interesting observation. Very interesting indeed.
I think that from the guy's perspective, it might look like someone doing that was either not interested and/or just trying to be polite while keeping distance between them.
But if he had asked you to move the conversation forward, could you have answered, "Yes, I'd like that," or would it have come out as some kind of confusing ramble mixed with compliments and doubts, ending with, 'I have to go now see you Sunday'...
Ariana (#97) wrote:
>>I wonder sometimes if I shouldn't have, or shouldn't still, tell him the whole of what I think is true. He did ask after all.<<
Personally, I think you did just fine. You didn't say no. In fact, someone with experience in God's guidance would probably interpret that as a pretty strong indication that he should keep talking. Or at least keep praying until he resolves in his own mind what God is saying to him.
Though, regarding the article suggestion, not all members of the Boundless staff have a positive opinion on the whole guidance thing. Not all readers do, either. Results are "mixed" as they say about the stock market.
For example, my church has grown from 300 to 8000 in the 15 years I've been attending. We've been around for the interesting pieces of God's guidance and seen it happen. When I talk to people who've made the same journey, it's pretty easy for them to discuss which parts of God's guidance seem right. But I also just tried explaining something to someone who wasn't familiar with the journey...and I think I flipped her world upside down. Gosh. Sorry.
108. BDB said the following at 5:40 PM on May 20:
RE: Dan (41):
One word: Finals
Though your friend may have another good reason for delaying until the summer.
Example:
My church requires anyone going on a summer short-term mission trip to sign a statement saying they will not initiate any romantic relationships for the duration - basically from the time they sign it until they get back. This is to preserve team cohesiveness as well as avoid any conflicts with the populations in the countries we go to. The primary intent is to make sure people on a missions trip don't mess it up by using all this free time to put the moves on another team member - that's not why we're there.
There's a couple of college students on our trip who have finals the week before we leave. So even though it's mid-May now, their time is spoken for (for fundraising and team meetings) until we get back the first week of July.
So in this case, if someone asks the men why they're not initiating...well, they signed a form...
109. Rachael said the following at 6:38 PM on May 20:
Jessica (94) wrote:
"My honest advice would be to keep pursuing, even at friend status. "
-->I agree. This could work for some cold shoulders and blushing runners if the guys think they're worth it.
I think I can be one of those types if I am interested in the person. Too bad. But if I'm not interested in the person or not really interested I think I can be warm.
Interestingly enough, while I think I was pretty conversational (because he was) the first time I met a particular person. But he e-mailed me after that, and my replies were probably brief at first, I think. At first giving him absolutely no signal to pursue, I think...afterall, he was kind-of a random guy. About a month or so passed. He e-mailed again, and I e-mailed again more warmly, and somehow we've been hanging out and communicating a lot recently. I was awkward at first, but it's getting more comfortable and I'm enjoying him more. So...there are some of us who are a bit slower at comfortability than others...still I think it's highly likely my cheeks might redden at some point(s), and likely awkward moments will ensue, but somehow so far it hasn't completely scared him off...
Different story -- in the past, my guess is that I came across as cold to or/and awkward around a guy I ended up really really really liking. Even while I really liked him, it's very probable I wasn't incredibly open to him in front of others, maybe even cold shoulderish. Although there were warm moments as well, we often didn't talk much when in group settings. He was my really good friend, though, but he didn't 'like like' me. If he did like me and pursued me probably I would've been more relaxed and comfortable when in groups where he was, though...
So comfortability can come in certain settings and be absent in others, and be 'learned' or 'grown' in other situations...
Anyway, of course the guys here don't have to go for the cold shoulders, but don't always take it to mean non-interest. If they're really neat people, it might be worth it to talk to them a few times and see if their shyness warms up...
110. Tami said the following at 7:21 PM on May 20:
BDB (107): Interesting observations re: God's guidance. I imagine there are certain seasons of lives -- our own personal lives, or the life of a church -- where God speaks and reveals His direction more explicitly. Usually it seems like that type of calling comes over something you would've never thought to think He'd do in your life. But you walk step by step in that vision with obedience, accomplishing His plan and His work His way. And God does mighty things! But it requires a lot of waiting and working on our parts. :)
I'd say that type of explicit guidance isn't necessarily normative, but it isn't something we can easily dismiss, either. It also comes from *first* seeking to obey the Word we already have in hand.
To be clear -- I want to say that just because someone doesn't receive that type of direct guidance, I don't think they're less "spiritual" or less obedient to God.
111. BDB said the following at 10:18 PM on May 20:
Tami (#110) wrote:
>>I imagine there are certain seasons of lives -- our own personal lives, or the life of a church -- where God speaks and reveals His direction more explicitly.<<
Such as when a person or a church is at a crossroads. Of course, this may also happen because these are the times when a person stops to ask urgently...
>>It also comes from *first* seeking to obey the Word we already have in hand. <<
Yes. The best writers on "guidance" I've read also are heavily invested in scripture - translating scripture into new languages or like George Mueller dedicated to the Scriptural Knowledge Institute - literally putting the scripture in more people's hands.
>>To be clear -- I want to say that just because someone doesn't receive that type of direct guidance, I don't think they're less "spiritual" or less obedient to God.<<
Oh, yeah. I think it's much more likely for people to be "guided" by reading the Bible and having a specific verse jump out. But focusing on the nuts-and-bolts of obedience really needs to be done first. After all, a whole lot of the direct guidance in the Bible is God speaking through a prophet hammering on someone for their sin. Such as Ezekiel 20:3:
"Son of man, speak to the elders of Israel, and say to them, 'Thus says the Lord God: "Have you come to inquire of Me? As I live," says the Lord God, "I will not be inquired of by you."
Hmmm...this whole chapter has a bunch about how God will not provide guidance to his people if they are sinning. That's the same thing George Mueller said - don't expect God to answer your prayer if you are deliberately sinning...how interesting...
112. BDB said the following at 10:45 PM on May 20:
Here's one of those random guidance things. In two parts.
First, I prayed before buying this house. I was convinced this was the one God wanted me to purchase. And it turns out I have a bunch of Christian neighbors - including the pastor of another church that lives across the street. It makes it a very pleasant place to live. It also makes me wonder if they were praying for Christian neighbors when the house went up for sale.
I learned something else surprising tonight. I mentioned to him this evening that I leave for Cambodia in a month. He informed me that his daughter - and two other people on our street - are headed there on a mission trip this summer, too. Four white people on a cul-de-sac all picking Cambodia independently at the same time. How weird is that?
113. Jeremy said the following at 11:47 PM on May 20:
In response to Tami (110):
What I have often wondered is how common this sort of explicit guidance is. I have never experienced that in my entire Christian life, nor from Scripture do I see it being very common. So let me pose this to the other readers here: have you ever received explicit guidance from God? When I say explicit, I mean exactly that, a literal voice or vision or something of the sort, something beyond a mere feeling or circumstances working out.
114. Christina (in green) said the following at 9:29 AM on May 21:
Jeremy, #113
I have. Because it pertained directly to my relationships with a couple of my friends and the life of the church I grew up in, I don't think it necessary to share here.
My mom has. She woke up at 2AM after a vivid dream involving 2 of her friends and a baptism. When she woke up, she heard a voice telling her to buy a gallon of milk. She went, bought the milk, and went to her friends' house...they had just become christians that night and wanted to be baptized. My mom was there through the wee hours of the morning with them, teaching them, guiding them, and did an informal baptism. When breakfast came, they didn't have any milk...
So yeah...talk about explicit.
115. Tami said the following at 9:44 AM on May 21:
BDB (110) wrote: "Such as when a person or a church is at a crossroads."
Funny you should write that; I was reflecting on this discussion this morning, and I thought, "Maybe 'turning point' is the right phrase." So yeah, I agree.
I was at a retreat this weekend and the speaker talked about "forks in the road." All of us come to forks in the road. But once God gives you direction [however He chooses to do so -- via scripture, wise counsel, or however...] you have to go with His direction, not just stand there paralyzed, looking at the fork going, "I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DO!!!" You go. :) Our merciful Lord is faithful to us when we're obedient... and He's also big enough to handle our mistakes.
And you wrote: "That's the same thing George Mueller said - don't expect God to answer your prayer if you are deliberately sinning...how interesting..."
Hmm. I just read something similar yesterday. Yes, I think there's a direct correlation among obedience, holiness, and direction.
Jeremy (113): Short answer, yes I've received that type of guidance. Not literally audible or visible, but it has happened -- the "still, small voice" inside. If you're curious about how others have received, discerned, and obeyed God's guidance, it's a good idea to read classic Christian autobiographies -- for example, George Mueller's. I could also recommend more current books.
116. Carrie (the original) said the following at 9:56 AM on May 21:
Since we're moving off-topic. . .
RE: direct guidance
I have wondered many a time about this topic. There is one instance that convinced me it does happen. My severely mentally and physically handicapped aunt died of a stroke a couple of years ago. I was agonized as to if she was really saved or not. When my grandpa was alive he took her to church and she enjoyed it a lot. I didn't know if church was something she just happened to enjoy, but get nothing out of.
Just before this had happened a friend's mother died. Some friends and I collaborated. We made a book filled with prayers and letters of encouragement. There were two sets of lyrics I put in there: "In Christ Alone" and "Abide With Me".
My aunt died on a Friday. I was in my home state and went to church that Sunday in the church I was saved in. That particular March Sabbath(nothing "special") in the order of worship we sang several hymns and choruses two of which were "In Christ Alone" and "Abide With Me". I almost fell off of my chair when I saw those in the bulletin since I had never sang those songs in that church before. My heart became resolute that she was in heaven.
The next day we had a memorial service for her. The ladies at the group home told us that she read her Bible every day.
I have no experience with voices, but I can pin-point circumstances that have unravelled in very super-natural ways.
117. Tami said the following at 10:53 AM on May 21:
I feel compelled to say again -- with regard to guidance, Scripture ***first.***
All guidance absolutely has to be checked against what the Word of God says. God will never, ever direct you to go against His Word. Against prevailing wisdom? Perhaps. But against *His own*? No way.
OK. Just wanted to get that out of the way. :)
118. BDB said the following at 1:00 PM on May 21:
Tami (#117) wrote:
>>I feel compelled to say again -- with regard to guidance, Scripture ***first.*** <<
And in case I haven't been clear, I agree with this. Scripture trumps everything else, including feelings, famous authors, etc....
119. BDB said the following at 1:56 PM on May 21:
Jeremy (#113) wrote:
>>When I say explicit, I mean exactly that, a literal voice or vision or something of the sort, something beyond a mere feeling or circumstances working out.<<
I'll give an example that may help explain what I mean.
Before I bought a house, I had a vague feeling that God was holding me back. Couldn't put my finger on it. I did a spreadsheet, I could qualify for a mortgage, still the vague feeling. Looking at my spreadsheet one day, I realized, I could pay off all my credit cards in about a year if I did that first, instead of getting a bigger mortgage.
Immediately, something in my mind said, "Yes." The still, small voice that Tami describes.
Why do I attribute this to God? Three reasons:
1) It's not what I wanted to hear.
2) It was the right thing to do. I was making enough money that I had no excuse for having any credit card debt. It would require painful discipline to pay off 15 years of accumulated debt in one year. It would require changing bad habits I acquired early in my college career.
3) It was consistent with scripture:
"Owe no one anything except to love one another, for he who loves another has fulfilled the law. (Romans 13:8)
And in subsequent years, life has been much better without credit card debt. It's easy to look back and say it was God's will, but at the time I had to endure people pushing me to do things that were a waste of money - I knew I had the direction I was supposed to go, and I had to stick to it.
In 2 Kings 4:1-8 we see a miraculous answer to debt. (The subject got me looking through my Bible.) While God did indeed provide a quick answer, I notice the sequence: First, Elisha told the widow to do something that looked stupid - gather a bunch of jars and pour out oil. He didn't tell her at first that she'd have enough oil to pay off all her debts. He just told her to do something. AFTER she did it, she came back, and he said, "Sell the oil, pay off your debts, and live on the rest."
Interestingly enough, she needed help from a third party - she had to borrow a bunch of vessels and pots from her neighbors to pull it off.
120. Dan *real name* said the following at 11:29 PM on May 21:
Thanks Carrie (the original - 101), Tami (102), Christina (in green - 103), Rachel L (104), Rachel (105), and BDB (108) for responding to my question in post #100. I know there are some important circumstances in both the third party's life, as well as the gal I am asking about (not finals BTW, we are BOTH well out of college). Part of it is impatience on my part and I do agree with the need to wait on God's timing first and foremost. But it sure does beat sitting around doing nothing. Thanks again for your thoughtful responses.
121. Jessica said the following at 5:33 AM on May 22:
BDB (107)
>> I think that from the guy's perspective, it might look like someone doing that was either not interested and/or just trying to be polite while keeping distance between them.
But if he had asked you to move the conversation forward, could you have answered, "Yes, I'd like that," or would it have come out as some kind of confusing ramble mixed with compliments and doubts, ending with, 'I have to go now see you Sunday'...<<
Let me offer you some more advice. Blushing usually indicates that a female is interested. It doesn't always, but it normally means that she understands you are interested and is doing her best to conceal her own interest. If she wasn't interested, she would tell you to beat it ;-)
Had he asked me, I would have gladly agreed to pursue a friendship with him. I wouldn't have stuttered and stammered (at least I don't think I would have). Now, I may not have made the best eye contact and my WHOLE FACE might have turned crimson but I would have wholeheartedly agreed.
As a general rule, women like to be pursued. That might mean a tad bit of running, but we kinda (and maybe wrongly) expect men to chase us. I know, in other times that men have shown interest, it has driven me into the heart of God, and I turn to see if he (the interested young man) is there. Maybe I set my standards too high... maybe I expect too much... maybe that's why I'm still single, I don't know. I am not harsh or uncaring by any means. I just know my heart is for one, and no bozo is going to get to it without a fight :-)
Have you ever read 'Black' by Ted Dekker? I believe it could be called it a horror novel, maybe more of a mystery. He writes along the lines of Frank Peretti, except it's darker. Anyway, in that novel is a beautiful picture of romance.
Reading it, as odd as that sounds (reading a novel for romantic insight) provides some interesting glances into a woman's heart, as well as a man's. Just a thought. Scripture, of course, is always your best source.
122. Rachael said the following at 3:36 PM on May 22:
(121): "If she wasn't interested, she would tell you to beat it ;-)"
-->Might not be true of every woman...
"Blushing usually indicates that a female is interested."
-->Might not always mean they're interested. Some might not know how to handle undue attention.
"but we kinda (and maybe wrongly) expect men to chase us. "
-->Poor guys, though I understand that chasing is part of the expectation many people have. And maybe they like it... if there is mutual interest, I don't want to be too hard for him to get unless that's the way it's supposed to be. Don't want to be too easy, but not too hard. Kind of feel for the guys in all this. But maybe they/some/many like the chase...
123. BDB said the following at 6:15 PM on May 22:
Jessica (#121) wrote:
>>He writes along the lines of Frank Peretti, except it's darker. <<
Hmmm...one of Peretti's cousins was a youth group advisor in my HS youth group - darker you say? I've never read Dekker's books, I guess I confused him with Dokken or something. I'll add it to the "list."
Rachael (#122) wrote:
>>Kind of feel for the guys in all this. But maybe they/some/many like the chase...<<
Well, whether it's a triathlon or NASCAR, it's better if everyone agrees on the rules...
124. Jo said the following at 4:20 PM on May 29:
Probably no one reads this post any more but in answer to Jeremy: I haven't had visions or anything, but another 'still small voice' which I'm absolutely sure was God.
Someone I really cared about had basically cut me off with no explanation and really, really hurt me. My usual reaction to such things is to do everything I possibly can to make things right, I always think I can make it okay if I just find the right thing to say... but this time I felt like God was saying "No, don't do anything, I will sort it out for you."
Like BDB said, this wasn't what I wanted to hear, and so it was clear to me that the voice was God's and not my own.
So I left it for a while and then started doubting that I'd heard correctly... But after praying about it, the devotional book I was reading went straight into the story of Gideon - a perfect example of exactly what I felt God was telling me to do, and a perfect explanation of why it was necessary. When the situation got resolved, God wanted to make certain that I would understand that He had done it, not me. And I felt again that God was telling me to wait.
Long story short, without any effort on my part, a few months later my friend and I were talking again, which was great but the hurt still hadn't been addressed. Lots of people told me this was the best I could reasonably hope for, but I knew that this wasn't the full restoration that God had promised me. And lo and behold, a few months after that, the guy (unprovoked) apologised for everything that had happened, explained it all and literally undid all the hurt in one conversation.
No it's not a 'miracle' as such, but I know without a shadow of a doubt that that was God. He told me He would work it out, and He did. I did nothing; the glory is His.
Long comment but no one will see it anyway so it doesn't matter!
125. Dan *real name said the following at 6:42 PM on May 29:
I read it. Thanks for sharing.
126. BDB said the following at 6:58 PM on May 29:
Jo (#124):
I saw it. That's a neat story.
And kind of a reminder I needed today - remembering to "just wait" when God says, "just wait."
In the last week I've had some interesting things come together.
A little more than a year ago I started volunteering with the 3rd graders. It seemed like something God wanted me to do, though I had no idea why. Someone even said at my first meeting, "You're really out of your box, aren't you?" I discovered when I got to Mexico mission last month that children flock to Americans; I was already quite used to being around a large group of energetic children. Good preparation.
Somewhat less than a year ago I was asked to join the board of a 501(c)3 that is a public-private partnership. My skills are in operations and finance, but it's definitely an opportunity to help focus the people asking for money to help them get more organized. The organization is dedicated to helping poor children at risk in the county. I didn't seek it out, and I was very surprised they asked (since everyone else has children), but I felt like God was opening a door for some reason. He certainly wasn't saying "no" in this case.
And now I'm going to Cambodia. I understood it as a medical missions trip when I signed up. Now I know more - we're going out to the provinces to help...children at risk. Different risks, but same principle.
And it turns out that one of my fellow board-members has a friend who founded a hospital in Cambodia where we may be able to get supplies, since we will be buying them all in country.
So today, I'm just tickled at the way all these different threads, which I thought were independent of one another, all came together. It makes me very excited about what God might have in store next!