Silly Christian Subculture
by Suzanne Hadley Gosselin on 05/05/2008 at 11:09 AM
I was in a Christian bookstore the other day and saw a key chain that read: "It is Yoo Hoo He died for." I giggled at the use of a chocolate milk brand to tout Christianity. In her review of Rapture Ready!, Slate writer Hanna Rosin considers the strange world of Christian subculture. She notes:
At this point in history, American evangelicals resemble the Israelites at various dangerous moments in the Old Testament: They are blending into the surrounding heathen culture, and having ever more trouble figuring out where it ends and they begin. In politics, and in business, they've mostly gone ahead and joined the existing networks. With pop culture, they've instead created their own enormous "parallel universe," as Daniel Radosh calls it in his rich exploration of the realm, Rapture Ready! A Christian can now buy books, movies, music—and anything else lowbrow to middlebrow—tailor-made for his or her sensibilities. Worried that American popular culture leads people—and especially teenagers—astray, the Christian version is designed to satisfy all the same needs in a cleaner form.
Growing up in a Christian home and attending a Christian college, I've experienced my share of Christian subculture. I listened to Christian music, owned a "witness wear" t-shirt and even wore a WWJD bracelet. While I believe these things strengthened my identity with Christ at the time, I can see how they could have appeared silly to outsiders. Rosin writes on the advent of Christian subculture:
In the '80s, Christians were known as the boycotters, refusing to see movies or buy products that offended them. They felt about commercial culture much the way a Marxist might: that it was a decadent glorification of money and meaningless human relationships. Then, sometime during the '90s, when conservative evangelicals started coming out of their shells, they took a different tack. The boycotters became coopters and embarked on the curious quest to enlist America's crassest material culture in the service of spiritual growth.
I'm wary of this blending of Christianity and culture to produce a brand. At the same time I wonder what would be a more effective approach. Aren't wholesome, biblically-based alternatives for teens a good thing? Honestly, I believe that Brio magazine (an alternative to mags like Seventeen and Sassy) sustained me through my teen years.
However, there is a fine line. We certainly don't want to be the money changers in the temple—leveraging Christian products for financial gain. Neither do we want to give teens and children a warped view of faith in Christ—as a sub-par way of doing life. Rosin writes:
For faith, the results can be dangerous. A young Christian can get the idea that her religion is a tinny, desperate thing that can't compete with the secular culture.
Reducing Christianity to a sickly brand is not only detrimental to the cause of Christ but just plain wrong. Still, quality Christian products can and have changed lives. Maybe the key is to consistently renounce the silly and champion the inspired, and ask God to grant us the wisdom to see the difference.
Tim Challies offers a good review of Rapture Ready! on his blog.
1. a sassy sister said the following at 11:20 AM on May 5:
I think that Jonathan Dodson's article on how Christians should engage culture should definitely be applied here. The bottom line is that our faith is not part of a popularity contest. While I do believe that there is nothing wrong with Christian alternatives to things that are in popular culture, I do believe that we don't have to be like the world or compete with the world to win others to Christ. I am not saying to put yourself in a bubble and not face the issues of the world we live in. What I am saying is that we have to live out the wisdom of knowing what is culture and what is Christ.
2. j. said the following at 11:55 AM on May 5:
I actually wrote my college thesis on this topic from a design standpoint. I found that a lot of the Christian ephemera available for purchase is a double-edged sword: it both negatively affects the Christian that purchases it, and effectively puts up a wall against a good majority of the outside world.
Another main problem is that there tends to be more of a focus on cloning than there is creating. There seems to be more of a market for a hasty alternative than there is for originality -- a mother may be more apt to storm into Christian Supply requesting an alternative to Harry Potter than she is investigating the existence of quality, original material.
The entire review was quite an interesting read--
and now I'm interested in picking up Rapture Ready.
3. Andrea said the following at 11:57 AM on May 5:
I was a Brio reader! It was a definite positive influence in my life. To this day, I still remember the story of the couple who were married after the man was so severely burned that he was unrecognizable as his former person. Because he had no hands or feet due to amputations, he wore his wedding ring on a chain around his neck. I've told so many people that story. It still serves today as my litmus test of "true love" that his wife married him, anyway.
But yes, current Christian culture disturbs me a little. As nice as it is to have quality substitutes for secular entertainment, I can't help but think that we have watered down our faith to the stuff of bumper stickers and copycat fiction.
I'm not saying God can't use it, but if all non-believers see of our faith is the "In Case of Rapture, This Car is Yours" bumper sticker on our car, then we are in bad shape, indeed.
In fact, non-believers have already seized the opportunity to twist our Christian Culturisms around and use them against us. Some of them are even quite amusing. I saw recently the following bumper sticker, and had to chuckle despite myself:
"In Case of Rapture, May I Have Your Car?"
4. Sarah P. said the following at 11:58 AM on May 5:
Up until the present age, Christians were the ones who sustained culture. They didn't do this by separating and creating a "Christianized" version. They did it by creating the most excellent art. Stories, paintings, and film aren't even supposed to be the same thing as directly preaching; they have a different purpose. They illustrate beauty and truth and expand the mind. No matter who is painting beauty and truth - things which people need in order to live - they are pointing people to God.
At least, that is my slowly firming opinion. :D
5. Cassandra said the following at 12:24 PM on May 5:
Some of it, as you said, is a good alternative for teens. I'm glad there is christian music and magazines so that teens are listening to and reading something wholesome rather than the unfiltered pop culture.
However, I do think you are right. This last week, I was was a student worker at a week long Christian event, and I witnessed one of the guests in a "Christian" t-shirt. It was green, with a giant Heinekin lable, only instead of Heinekin it said Him In Me. As clever as the play on words may be, I was downright offended. I'm not sure what upset me more-- that the woman was wearing it, or that a company touting itself as Christian had the gall to produce and sell something like that.
I very much doubt that anyone would encourage a Christian to wear a shirt advertising drinking and drunkenness (which is the message that comes across when a person proudly displays alcohol lables) and yet now we are changing a few words and pretending its holy? Were a non-Christian to see this, I am rather certain they would laugh-- not at the writer's cleverness, but at what would seem to them, the hypocrasy of Christianity.
Remembering my earlier question-- was I more offended that the woman wearing the shirt or the company that made it, my first thought was the company that made it-- how dare they misrepresent Christianity in such a way-- for a profit-- and encourage others to do so by wearing the shirt. But then, we, as consumers, need to be discerning. Just because something is sold in a "Christian bookstore" we can't blindly accept it. Before purchasing, we need to evaluate whether the item under consideration is truly going to help the cause of Christ.
6. Nicole said the following at 12:28 PM on May 5:
I went to a Christian book store yesterday. They have a display where they list current Christian CD's and a box next to it that says "for fans of [insert current secular pop artist]"
Then, browsing at the DVD collection, I couldn't help but notice several series that bear a strking resemblance to "Cars", "Thomas the Train" and other insect related Disney/Pixar characters.
It made me laugh that we have to mimic what's already popular rather than coming up with something new and creative and original. Not sure if that's a worse commentary on the Chrisitan entertainment industry or Christians themselves. Do Christians only want to buy something that looks, sounds, tastes and feels like something secular?
7. DannieA said the following at 12:41 PM on May 5:
My parents believed that if you were going to "take away" something from a child...instead of leaving it void, you filled it with something better.
So instead of going to a "New Kids on the Block" concert...I would go to "Michael W. Smith" or anything...
I've known parents who don't try to fill kids up with wholesome alternatives to the "no, we don't listen/look at this" and those kids generally rebelled from church and are very much participating in the sinful lifestyle.
I don't know if this means anything but something to consider.
8. Julie Doolittle said the following at 1:08 PM on May 5:
I think the danger lies in becoming a 'wristband or bumpersticker Christian' where one counts on the merchandise to reveal the wonder of Him. Not likely. We are to be salt and light in the world, not walking merchandise advertisers. I, too, gave in to the merchandise as a teenager. I had the F.R.O.G. Bible cover, the WWJD bracelet and the fish decals but, ultimately, they faded away and were lost to time and place. I am now a confessor of Christ, boldly speaking of Him and our relationship regardless of where I am and who I'm with. Though I never look down on those wearing Christian merchandise, I do not partake in the purchase of them any longer.
9. Justice said the following at 1:53 PM on May 5:
DannieA,
What's ironic about that, and I grew up the same way, is that band like DC Talk and Mercy Me listened to Hindrix, AC/DC, REM and loads of other 'secular' bands and were influenced by them, yet parents would only let their kids listen to those bands. It's crazy how ironic that is.
10. tom said the following at 2:09 PM on May 5:
I did not grow up in the Christian subculture, so even today, 27 years after becoming a Christian, I find much of it bizarre and unhelpful.
A few years ago I went to the CBA convention in Nashville. (CBA used to stand for Christian Booksellers Association, but they had to change it to mean nothing at all, since books are among the minority of things sold through CBA outlets.) I spent three days walking the aisles among the vendor booths, amazed at the tackiness of the Jesus junk being sold. Some of the book offerings were little better.
At the end of the three days, I felt like I'd just swam through an oil slick. I've never been back since, and have no plans to ever go back.
11. Tami said the following at 2:38 PM on May 5:
Even though I'm not personally a fan, I do admire the VeggieTales. They're creative, and kids (and adults) enjoy them -- and so far as I can tell, they're not a ripoff of anything else (except when they're doing the obvious parodies).
I do, however, take umbrage with those Christians in my life who have at some point basically questioned my faith for not liking CCM or wearing Christian-themed t-shirts. Even as a teenager I thought so much of it was a ripoff of other stuff in the culture... stuff I didn't particularly like in the first place (Stryper, anyone?) Like Julie said, it's much more important to actually live out what you believe, than to be solely identified by what particular books you read, what you listen to, what concerts you attend, etc.
12. brx said the following at 2:48 PM on May 5:
Some of the Christian sub-culture can be helpful - mostly to people already in the church.
Those outside the Church are not interested in christian flavored alternatives. They want someone who really, genuinely loves, heals, and is present.
They want a REAL Jesus - not a catchy slogan, nor a pop worship lyric that sticks in their head, nor a cliche Bible answer-man, nor a great sermon on CD. They want to see, talk to, eat with, be hugged and healed by a REAL Jesus. Not one that sounds like a fantasy, but a Jesus that is visibly real with visible love.
It makes me ask: who is living in me today?
13. Denise Morris said the following at 2:59 PM on May 5:
When I went to public school for the first time, I planned to save my whole school by wearing my dc talk shirts and my "Jesus Freak" dog tags.
It didn't work.
14. Jo said the following at 4:19 PM on May 5:
The problem with too much of this alternative culture is it takes us out of the world's culture. We're called to be in the world, but not of it. All the Christian stuff is fine in moderation, but when people start ONLY wearing Christian logos and ONLY listening to Christian music and ONLY attending Christian events... I do think that can become an issue.
That said, I've had my share of WWJD bracelets. I think some of this stuff really does help, especially when you're young. It solidifies you as a group, helps you to feel part of something bigger rather than just one Christian going it alone, and that I think is important for teens particularly.
Also, I was at a youth meeting for 14-18 year olds recently where a friend of mine was speaking - she's my age (25) and referenced dc Talk asking if any of the young people had heard of them. Mine was the only hand raised. That was the moment I realised I was old.
15. Michele said the following at 5:05 PM on May 5:
I'm just curious - my husband told me about something he did as a kid at an evangelical Christian school, and I've never heard of other Christians doing this.
Have y'all heard of "rapture practice?"
Challies says that he finds that many Christians exist parallel to the so-called "Christian subculture," and I think nothing could be more dead-on. In fact, a lot of Christians spend a good amount of time denouncing things like Bibleman.
16. BDB said the following at 7:25 PM on May 5:
DannieA (#7) wrote:
>>So instead of going to a "New Kids on the Block" concert...I would go to "Michael W. Smith" or anything...<<
Hey - and guess which group endured longer, eh? I was shocked a few months go to see a movie about a preacher starring "Michael Smith." Could it be? It was! I've got some 20-year-old CD's...
As to Tami's (#11) comment - you know, I love satire. I might just need to go see Pirates Who Don't Do Anything! The simple facts that they matched the number of syllables is clever.
Finally, as for Denise (#13), I went through a similar phase. I wore explicitly Christian t-shirts a few times when I traveled around the country as a college student.
But you know what else happened? A bunch of people complimented me on it. What surprised me the most were how many people of various ethnic backgrounds took the time to mention it - the airport porter, taxi driver, waiter at a restaurant. It opened up the opportunity to talk to people who might not have otherwise started a conversation with me.
It did take me a while to figure out that NOTW was not just a youth-group logo...
17. Andrew said the following at 9:19 PM on May 5:
I think that if I were not a Christian, I would think that Christianity is a simply a crappier version of life, just as Christian music is a crappier imitation of secular music. Could this be the message that unbelievers get from inferior Christian music?
(I am referring mostly to pop music, which I do not like in sacred or secular form. Many great classical works were written for the glory of God. I am also a fan of jazz, including an album of Christian hymns by jazz pianist Willie Pickens.)
18. Gene said the following at 10:00 PM on May 5:
MIchele @15
Don't forget that the doctrine of the Rapture, at least in the Dispensationalist, Jerry Jenkins-Tim LaHaye mold, is relatively recent in church history, barely 150 years old. It was birthed in the same spiritual ferment that gave us Christian Science, Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormonism. For more than 1800 years the church did not teach such a doctrine, and a good number of us today still do not hold to it.
19. Leah said the following at 8:30 AM on May 6:
I have a friend who openly admits to disliking contemporary Christian music. He says it's his least favourite type. He even has a shirt that says "I don't like your music" and takes joy in wearing it to church (specifically in the evening services, which are more youth-dominated).
Also, when I was in highschool, WWJD bands became cool for the bolder non-Christians to wear. I hated that. I wonder if they were envious of Christians' blatant disregard for social "coolness" by wearing WWJD bands etc, and so started wearing them too, but I don't care what the reason was. I was offended.
I really do dislike the Christian subculture (mainly patronised by youth, and sometimes into the young adults demographic). Original stuff is great- like Veggie Tales- and there are many Christian artists I enjoy (I don't understand people who say "christian-musician-x is just a copy-cat of secular-musician-x" when you can just as easily say "secular-musician-x is just a copy-cat of secular-musician-y"). WWJD bands were great back when they first came out, but when they became a fashion accessory I was glad I'd stopped wearing mine.
Christian substitutes are just fine in many cases. Eg, having a keychain with the logo of the last youth conference you went to, or with WWJD on it, instead of "Roxy" or the playboy bunny. Or having a calendar with bible verses on it instead of secular inspirational quotes.
But when Christian alternatives to EVERYTHING start transforming the wearer/owner into a clone of everyone else in the subculture, there is a problem. I doubt the person's intentions and motivation. I find at some churches in particular (especially AOG churches- but that could just be my experience) the subculture is very dominant and very 'cool'. This is a problem.
20. Amber said the following at 10:55 AM on May 6:
This reminds me of a conversation I was having the other day with some friends and my husband, who happen to all have majored in music in one way or another. We were commenting on how it seems that nearly (and I say nearly because there are a few exceptions) every current Christian artist is basically a "Christian version" of a secular artist or genre. They all said they honestly don't listen to most Christian music when they are looking for musical ability and creativity. There are alot of bands out there doing amazing and creative things with music, but most of them aren't Christian. It seems CCM today is content to merely copy what the world produces. They told me that they find it saddening that we as Christians who are privileged to be aware of God and who he is are not able to use this to inspire creativity and innovation in our music. They hope to work to change this. I would agree with them...I think that we shouldn't settle for a weaker imitation of the world's culture and music. God has created us and given us gifts to discover and come up with new ideas that can be used to bring glory to Him.
21. Katie B said the following at 1:52 PM on May 6:
I first entered the christian culture at 20 when I transfered to a christian college, (grew up secular catholic, first believe at eighteen at college with maybe 2 christians at any point, in a town with no church) My first chapel I noticed that at least a third of the students were wearing 'jesus shirts' and at first I felt left out that they had a shared experience that I didnt (growing up in the church) but when I got my first shirt with a bible verse on it, I found myself embarrassed to wear it out, the town where my school is very socially concious and very nonchristian. Our students have a very bad reputation for: littering, being rude or insensitive, poor work ethic (for those that have jobs around town) bad driving, being loud in the streets, asking for free food in returaunts, and even shoplifting sometimes. (although it is almost exclusively the white students who have this rep, and they are almost exclusively the ones who wear the teeshirts and wristbands)
I was embarrassed because I want to be judged on who I am, not who I look like. I am now proudly concidered a townie who takes classes rather than a student who ventures to town only to harass the starbucks employees, stare at the people who are homeless and tell people they are going to hell. I have no problem with Christian music or even the copying stuff, though I do think that lack of cretive integrety is a poor witness, but I dont hold to it because most of it is superfluous to the gospel, even the non pop culture stuff, but many of chuches' rules and messages. I want to live as a Christ follower within my community; maybe it is different for others who grew up in the church, but it seems to foster an 'us and them' mentality.
22. IMO said the following at 2:17 PM on May 6:
Though I haven't grown up in the Christian Subculture and don't really take part in it as described here (unless of course it is to listen to "crappy" Christian music which doesn't draw me closer to God and doesn't help me worship Him)...I really don't see what the big deal is. I mean stop the complaining already!
It's better than living in sin and leading a sinful lifestyle. If somebody wants to embrace the Christian Subculture (in a way that doesn't bring shame to Christ), then more power to 'em! If this helps them lead a straight and narrow, God-honoring and fearing life, then great!
What's wrong with being Imitators? We are called to be Imitators of Christ! Okay bad analogy --I KNOW!--but you get the point...Why not imitate something that is good and make it better and "own" it back to Christ? How many original ideas are they out there anyway? NOT MANY. Seriously, it's VERY, VERY difficult to come up with something original. It sure looks that way when I look around the culture in general.
End Tangent.
23. Jo said the following at 2:31 AM on May 7:
"Why not imitate something that is good and make it better and "own" it back to Christ?"
How many Christian artists actually do make it [I]better[/I] (in an artistic sense)? I sympathise with Leah's friends, I too turn to secular artists for real creativity. There are Christian artists I like, but they're not among my favourites.
Everyone is influenced by others, to be fair, and it's true that secular artists can usually be compared to other secular artists just as much as Christian artists can. But I kinda have a bit of an issue in my mind with defining the difference between 'secular' and 'Christian' so clearly. I write/sing myself and I make no particular effort to write songs that are Christian themed. Some are, many aren't. But all come from a foundation of faith in God because that's where I, the author, am at. on the other hand, I have a friend who will [I]only[/I] write songs about God, because "what else is there to write about?" Well in my mind, there's a lot.
What bothers me about the idea of a subculture is the idea of imitating the world and putting a Christian spin on it. We shouldn't be taking the world's recipes and adding a spoonful of Jesus. Our music, art, behaviour and everything we create naturally flows from who we are, and this applies whether we're Christians or not. For us, this will incorporate our identity in Christ, our personal experiences and influences (which might include musical styles etc). So yes, there will be resemblances between our music and secular music, but there should neither be a deliberate imitation of secular culture, or a deliberate separation from secular culture in what we produce. CCM is NOT a genre!!
24. niki said the following at 9:03 AM on May 7:
To "Katie B" (Comment # 21):
I know where you are coming from.
Growing up in a predominantly Catholic (and some "casual Jewish", as I figure) society, upon encountering Christian Subculture in college, I was baffled. People who claim to tap in to the source of all Life didn't seem to actively practice Life.
Cheap imitation of secular culture shouldn't even be on our radar, let alone in a "bookstore" bearing our name. Consumerism will not imprison those whom the Son has set free.
The utter lack of sociocultural responsibility and rampant immaturity witnessed in your community is simply sad.
Participation in this means embarrassing ourselves as the man who sees his face in the mirror, and forgets who he is when he goes from it.
I like some Christian music, and I think that it is largely due to my lack of awareness of the selection available in the world. That doesn't bother me. I am not misrepresenting Christ nor His Church by listening to music while paying attention to the words. Repetitive, self-focused, empty-calorie worship songs, on the other hand - that can be poison to a visitor or even a long time Church member.
As C.S. Lewis wrote, "Indeed, if we consider the unblushing promises of reward and the staggering nature of the rewards promised in the Gospels, it would seem that Our Lord finds our desires, not too strong, but too weak. We are half-hearted creatures, fooling about with drink and sex and ambition when infinite joy is offered us, like an ignorant child who wants to go on making mud pies in a slum because he cannot imagine what is meant by the offer of a holiday at the sea. We are far too easily pleased."
25. IMO said the following at 1:32 PM on May 7:
One more thought-- I'd rather advocate being countercultural. And I think Boundless does a great job of being countercultural in many ways. Living the Truth out is always countercultural (Submission, Purity, etc)..
Just wanted to toss that in...I'm not a fan of actually imitating the culture around me..
26. Suzanne said the following at 12:49 AM on May 8:
There is some bad Christian music out there, and some really excellent music (Shane & Shane, anyone?). By the same token, there are amazing secular artists, and also some pretty lame ones. Copying styles is not just limited to Christians, and originality is not just limited to "everyone else."
What's important is to make sure I personally do everything with excellence, serving the Lord in whatever area that happens to be.
27. Michael Hamm said the following at 9:30 AM on May 8:
"Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
In the words of Rob Bell: "'Christian' is a great noun; it's a HORRIBLE adjective."
So much of Christian culture these days doesn't reflect what it means to be a Christian. You can have a Christian book and it not be true. You can make a movie or an album and call it Christian, and have it not be praiseworthy or excellent, or even very good at all. Seriously, when the best thing people have to say about Christian media is how 'wholesome' it is, that's pretty sad. What about the plot? The sound? The actual content?
It's kinda sad, but I don't have much faith in mainstream Christians these days.
28. Tami said the following at 11:32 AM on May 8:
Michael Hamm, perhaps you have (inadvertently) hit on the problem -- we've been putting our faith in "mainstream Christians" for guidance, and not Christ Himself...
We're very quick to embrace the ideas and ideas of someone who identifies as Christian -- on *any* "side," "mainstream" or not -- and not search out ideas and ideals from the Word.
Someone recently described this as going to a lavish buffet and only eating pre-chewed food. Ew... but it's an apt description of what we're doing when we take our *primary* guidance and inspiration from other Christians, and not God Himself and His creation that surrounds us.
(Not saying Christian artists and authors are bad... but we do have to be careful that we're primarily disciples of Christ and not other Christians.)
29. shelby said the following at 1:24 PM on May 8:
I like this article, ive been talking about this with friends recently. I agree that simply creating alternatives may not neccesarily be all that beneficial
I got pulled into the Christian subculture in my late teen years (or when i started listening to CCM) At first I didnt see much wrong with it, because it was something different at the time. Then i got a few Jesus shirts.
However, now, with all the books, magazines, and music CD's, i find myself wondering if most of these Christian-ized materials is really leading to transformed lives and spiritual growth. I recently went down to flordia and was given a "Jesus is my boss" hat. I was happy about it, but i now hesitate to wear it because it seems too much as a outward show "oh look at me I am a Christian" because of this Hat or shirt
I needed to rexamine my motives for wearing the shirt, or hat, was it just for my personal glorfication and appearence or is it to point people to the risen Lord
I think as Long as you are living for Christ, in action and words, rather than simply relying on "a hat" t-shirt or braclet to do the witnessing for you. That is the most important thing. As Christians we are called to point people to the Jesus who transforms lives, not the CCM singer, or the Christian book, or CD or any other replacement. In themselves they are not bad, but they cannot become the focus our ministry, Jesus always is should be.
I think Christian culture (including myself) has unintentionally created a barrier for those outside the culture, where they feel they need fit into the culture we've created, rather than the Jesus who created them.
we have also weeved entertainment, consumerism and self-edification into the gospel; which is a whole other post.
nice article
30. Esther said the following at 4:46 PM on May 8:
What is this "creativity" in the secular music world (since that's what this seems to boil down to) that is so enviable? Honestly, I can't stand most of what I hear on secular radio, and the lyrics make me depressed. Does something really have to be uncomfortable to listen to in order for it to be 'original'? The same goes for art...a wedding dress sewn from men's used underwear? Some technical skill may be demonstrated, but I am far more inspired by the classics.
31. Jo said the following at 5:02 AM on May 9:
Esther:
I like only a small proportion of the secular music I hear on the radio. I've been involved in music for a long time so I guess I've been exposed to a wider variety than the average person. My favourites are people like John Mayer and Ben Folds (both of whom are quite obscure over here although I know they're well known in America..) Also LOVE Sara Bareilles who I've been following her for a few years now (very excited that she's finally becoming known!)
Anyway, my musical tastes aside, I agree with you that most of the real creativity is not found in the mainstream, and I also agree that lyrics don't have to be negative in order to be original (although personally I like a balance). The mainstream of secular and Christian music is fairly comparable I think in terms of originality and creativity, but the difference is that there is no Christian non-mainstream, at least not that I've been able to find. If a Christian artist doesn't fit the mainstream mould, they're unlikely to be picked up by a record label at all because the market for them wouldn't be big enough.
The above is my perception, apologies for any innacuracies... The Christian music industry in general is MUCH bigger in America so the chances of finding creative Christians is probably higher for you guys. Any suggestions of original artists for me to check out will always be appreciated!!
32. mindlab said the following at 7:44 AM on May 9:
#31 Jo:
I agree that 'mainstream Christian' music is fairly lifeless and uninspiring. As for creative Christian artists, I don't know much about your tastes, but here's a few:
Michael Card (hands down the best there is, lyrics are still worth contemplating after listening to his music for 20 years)
Chris Rice (hymns to contemporary, lyrics worth contemplating, and a deep understanding of rhythm)
GLAD (mostly vocal, some instrumentation, start with
'Acapella Hymns' if you want powerful lyrics)
33. Eliza said the following at 8:00 AM on May 9:
Esther #30,
A wedding dress sewn from men's underwear??? Honestly, that sounds absolutely fascinating! I have no idea what the artist's intent was, but to me that makes a BIG statement about purity (that bride has gone through a lot of men) and/or male/female roles (even feminine clothing is masculine-made).
Personally, I'm one of those people who finds a lot more honesty and authenticity in secular music than in Christian music (Jars of Clay and Caedmon's Call/Derek Webb being exceptions). Some of it's depressing, but when you're depressed are you really going to want to be listening to "He has made me glad" type lyrics? When King David was depressed his music definitely reflected it.
I agree, Jo, that Sara Bareilles is awesome :). Also, the just-breaking-out pop/folk artist Antje Duvekot has some amazing tunes and lyrics. Other songs on my ipod: "Where's the Love" Black Eyed Peas w/ Justin Timberlake, "Hey There Delilah" Plain White T's, "Hallelujah" Jeff Buckley, "Stranded" Van Morrison. Good stuff.
34. Katie B said the following at 9:51 AM on May 9:
I have no real prolem with imitation, Christians can do a good job and make music sound good, even if it isnt innovative. My problem is that what is the point of creating art or music if it isnt creative? What kind of message do we send, when we worship the all powerful creator of the universe and all we do is rewrite other people stuff? Like it or not, doing something well in the world isnt enough if you keep to the status quo. Even in the world, the best artists and musicians are the ones who do something completely new rather than the old thing really well. One thing we certainly should not do is hold ourselves to a lower standard. that is a horrible witness.
35. Jeremy said the following at 11:17 AM on May 9:
In response to Sarah P. (#4):
Absolutely, I could not agree more, although sadly this seems to be a minority viewpoint, as evidenced by the utter lack of response to your comment. Christians should produce the best and most beautiful art, as we used to -- the history of music is a wonderful testament to that. However, it seems that these days, many Christians (and Christian media "reviewers" in particular) are more interested in counting naughty words rather than attempting to even cursorily evaulate a work's aesthetic worth.
36. Jo said the following at 11:36 AM on May 10:
Having just re-read Sarah P's post - a hearty AMEN from me too. And Jeremy, that really gets on my nerves about a lot of Christian media reviews. Art/music/films have a moral element of course, but they also have a lot of other elements that are often ignored.
Eliza: you got some good taste methinks. :) Will check out Antje Duvekot. And yes Caedmon's Call are great, I'd forgotten about them. Also like Nichole Nordeman but I have to be in the right mood as she's quite poppy, love her lyrics though.
Honestly, I don't need or want all music to be groundbreaking and totally different from everything else. But I do like genuinely good songwriting with an original flavour that identifies it as the particular artist's work. That's what I think is lacking in a lot of mainstream music, secular and Christian alike.
37. Jo said the following at 11:38 AM on May 10:
Oh also mindlab, thanks, I've heard a little from Michael Card but will check out some more. What I heard I liked.
And another hearty AMEN to this comment from shelby:
"I think Christian culture (including myself) has unintentionally created a barrier for those outside the culture, where they feel they need fit into the culture we've created, rather than the Jesus who created them."
38. Vanessa said the following at 9:56 PM on May 10:
It is sad to see that where the secular world once tried to mimic the Spiritual world...it is now the other way around. I mean, in some periods of history, the Christians had to "blend in" in order to avoid persecution to the point of death. So many of the hymns and old sacred songs have the same tunes as secular songs. O Sole Mia vs How Great Thou Art. Unfortunately, in our culture today, anything and everything is tolerated so there should be no need for "blending" with the world, but we're so used to it that it doesn't faze us.
39. rebecca kaminski said the following at 10:01 PM on May 29:
There are thousands of subculturally emmersed young who are NOT being reached. It's certainly NOT silly when those who 'claim' to be His are simply edifying themselves and certainly not repecting, much less understanding, the necessary missions to reach these lost. I pray you mature in your walk and begin to help more than grieve Him. God bless missions such as christiangoth.com.
40. obewan said the following at 8:45 AM on May 30:
This is a subject that has had me convicted as of late. The last statistic I heard was that the Christian community spends $4 billion a year on this “stuff”. The CBA convention is all about Madison Avenue style marketing now. I have done my part for sure with my 400 (mostly Christian) album collection. (I have since stopped collecting.) Now, my singles Bible study is in a rut of “book studies” where we are forced to spend another $22 every 6 weeks for some shallow pop culture psychobabble immersed study guide. What has happened to the plain old simple Bible (text only) study – verse by verse with personal application testimonies? My real conviction is regarding how that $4 billion could be spent ministering to third world children through World Vision or Compassion International. Don’t forget, in the Old Testament, a FULL 1/3 of the tithe went to care for the poor, disabled, and widows. (Every third year’s tithes.) The church for sure does not do that now, but is happy to spend away on pop-culture entertainment.
41. Tami said the following at 10:14 AM on May 30:
I hear you, obewan.
I don't know that you're really asking this question... but NavPress makes some really great book-study studies under the "LifeChange" label. It's been my experience that it's difficult to get people to jump straight from assembled studies to plain text Bible studies, but study books that go straight through Scripture are a helpful bridge in the right direction.