Private Journal No Longer Private?
by Ted Slater on 05/05/2008 at 12:17 PM
We received an e-mail this morning from a young woman who's been married for just under a year. Here's an excerpt (edited slightly for brevity):
Not too long ago I walked into our bedroom and found my husband reading my journal. Now, I'd never told him not to read it. I'd never told him it was off limits to all eyes but mine. I'd never told him how I felt about my journal -- because in the home that I grew up in, journals were sacred. It was a spoken rule in my parents home that a journal is totally, completely, entirely private.
And I've enjoyed that privacy between the pages of my journal for the last decade. During the ugliness of the aftermath of my parents divorce (i.e., court battles, custody arguments), my journal was my best friend. During the awkward time of my adolescence, my journal was a place of refuge. My journal has been a place I go to write when I am angry or frustrated or disappointed; when I am grateful or feeling distant from God.
For me, writing is therapeutic. And in my married relationship, it has been a "friend" for me to turn to when I am frustrated in order to sort out my feelings of anger before I react, so I can calmly approach my husband with kind words in times of conflict (and avoid situations where gossip or bias might arise if I were to verbally voice my frustrations to another person). In short, my journal has been my good friend for all these years.
After I found him reading my "sacred" musings, I was hurt. I felt violated. We talked about the situation -- or at least tried to. But because of his background and because he feels that it would be fine for me to read his journal (if he had one), he doesn't understand why I am so upset about the whole ordeal.
I've told my wife that nothing is private with me any more. She's free to rummage through my computer and read old e-mails, free to dig through boxes of stuff I've collected during my single years, free to open my mail, free to tell her friends whatever she wants about me, and so on. If she discovers anything that she has questions about, I see it as an opportunity to be more transparent with each other, for her to get insights into who I am and who I've been.
That said, I do understand this woman's desire to keep some of her thoughts private. She admits that she uses her journal to work through things before "going public" with them. And I think that's a legitimate use of a private journal.
So, though ideally (in my opinion) there'd be nothing entirely private between a husband and a wife, I think it's fair for this woman to ask her husband to not look at her private journal. And her husband should respect such a request. Perhaps in time she'll be open to opening its pages to him; in the meantime, he should trust that her request is being made out of good motives, and not out of a disrespectful desire to keep something from him.
That said, I'd love to hear what you think. Is it OK for some things to remain secret even within marriage? Should you allow your spouse to keep some things private, and not take offense that they're "keeping" certain things from you?
1. Nicole said the following at 12:40 PM on May 5:
I don't believe in secrets, however privacy isn't always a bad thing. I would hope that my husband wouldn't tell me every single thought he thinks about me. I am sure at times there are some thoughts that are much better left unspoken! In a way, a journal is a record of thoughts and I would respect a spouses wishes to not divulge them to me. Even if you don't have anything to hide, most people still need a little privacy in their lives.
2. Margaret said the following at 12:41 PM on May 5:
I grew up in a house very much like the one this woman describes. My parents always told me that anything I wrote was mine, and they would never read it. I remember once in high school I had written out my frustrations with having to move again (my dad is in the military), and brought my mom my journal to read that entry, because there were things there that I wanted her to see but couldn't actually say them directly to her-- she asked me at least twice if I was really sure I wanted her to read it before she actually did.
I'm not married, but I think that having an appropriate and private outlet to vent the good, bad, and ugly is a huge benefit to a marriage. Men and women process things differently, and I know there are plenty of times when I need a way to "talk" out a response to a situation before I actually confront the problem. Doing so in private writing lets me go through the stages without inadvertently hurting someone else in the process.
3. Louise said the following at 12:45 PM on May 5:
I have heard that some people consider one's spouse exempt from the phrase "I promise I won't tell anyone what you have told me".
In other words, if you "swear" a friend to secrecy and the friend reveals what you have told him/her to his/her spouse, this does constitute a betrayed confidence.
What does everyone think of the above idea?
IMO, it is betraying a confidence.
4. Elizabeth said the following at 12:48 PM on May 5:
I have gotten married recently - very recently - and am still seeing married life through rose colored glasses, so my comment may seem a bit biased. But, since my marriage is still so young, I can feel where this woman is coming from. I am a very firm believer in complete transparency between a husband and wife, and my husband has done the same thing you have done; he has given me total freedom to all of him and his private things. I have not quite gotten to the point where I can do the same for him. I want to. I want very much to do so, but I am not there yet.
My journals are a very raw place. Lord willing, I will soon be able to be vulnerable enough to allow him to see it all, but it is not now. Shoot, I am just getting used to the idea of him seeing all of me!
I can sympathize with needing a place to hash things out before God before bringing them out for my "other half" to share in, but I am working toward a place where this dearest person in the world to me can work through all the rawness with me, coming with me before our Father, standing as my head, supporting me, loving me.
Soon.
5. Adam T. said the following at 12:48 PM on May 5:
Is it OK for some things to remain secret even within marriage?
That's a great question, and I'd need to think on it. My head says that ideally in a marriage there should be complete transparency, but my heart says I have things that I wouldn't feel comfortable sharing even with a wife, at least not for a long, very long time.
Question: how many women journal? It seems an awful lot of Christian women do. Way more than I would've thought.
6. Ryan said the following at 12:52 PM on May 5:
It may be a case by case basis... the goal of marriage being "two becoming one," I find it a bit difficult to rationalize the use of a journal the way this woman indicates. She calls it her friend, a place she goes to to sort out things, put her feelings on paper, etc. Is that not what prayer and God are for?
From how she describes it (I COULD BE WRONG) it seems awefully like she feels more free to be more intmiate with a book of musings than she does with her husband, God, and other avenues.
That's how I perceived her letter.
7. Julie Doolittle said the following at 1:01 PM on May 5:
Secrets are not for marriage. I do, of course, understand the woman not wanting her husband to read her journal mainly because some things can be misconstrued and misunderstood. I have seen secrets exposed in a marriage and the destruction of said marriage due to lack of trust. I feel that, as the Bible states, in marriage the two become one flesh and there should be safety in that union, safety of expression and acceptance.
8. paige said the following at 1:01 PM on May 5:
I'm not married, and probably don't have that many constructive thoughts to offer, but am definitely interested in this topic. I have been an avid journal-writer for most of my life, and have always wondered what I will do with all of those journals when I am married. I certainly have written some things over the years that I never want anyone to read (!) - nothing bad, just private and personal thoughts, musings, etc. (I'm very much someone who thinks through things by writing them out) ... but I've always wondered, when I get married, does that mean I have to share all that with my husband?
So I'm curious to hear what others have to say ...
9. Christina (in green) said the following at 1:16 PM on May 5:
From what I understand in any kind of relationship, exhibiting some control over emotions is important. I think Dr. Dobson wrote once that emotions aren't the sin, but sometimes we can sin in our response to those emotions.
I struggle to maintain a balance between emotion and proper responses to those emotions - including appropriate ways to communicate what is going on in my heart. I don't think that those boundaries of exhibiting self control should be nixxed within a marriage. If this woman struggles with controlling her emotions prior to writing out her frustrations on paper where her musings are between her and God (where they would be if she silently voiced her feelings without writing), then I think its ok for her to keep that private.
If I were her, I would have been open about the KIND of thing that goes into the journal - first responses and such...or that the journal's purpose is so that she can gain some initial perspective before reacting to certain emotions. But I don't think the details should ever NEED to be shared with her husband.
10. Read said the following at 1:18 PM on May 5:
I know for me when I was contemplating ending my engagement I used my journal to think out aloud about the problems I was encountering. Had my then fiancee seen that it would have caused a hail storm of problems before either of us were ready to deal with them. In the end what I had written helped become a catalyst for premarital counseling and individual counseling for both of us. I did wind up breaking the engagement, but for much more sounder reasons that what I had journaled about.
Think about this. When you go see a therapist you have expectation of confidentiality. If your journal is serving the same role, then shouldn't you have an expectation of privacy there also?
11. J. said the following at 1:18 PM on May 5:
I am all for honesty, trust, and communication within marriage, but at the same time I don't believe husbands and wives are obligated to talk about everything. Several years ago, I discussed a distressing thing that was going on in my life with an (almost) married friend and asked her to keep it confidential (i.e., to not share it with *anyone*). A short time later, she casually mentioned she had told her boyfriend. When I (nicely) pointed out that I had asked her to keep a confidence, her excuse was, "We tell each other everything." Mind you, what I had confided to my friend had absolutely nothing to do with their relationship. From that point on, I had to make sure that everything I told my friend was safe for the other ears. I keep confidences as a single woman, and I don't plan to change that when I get married.
The e-mail writer mentioned she liked to journal in part because it was a way for her to avoid gossip, something which husbands and wives are not immune from. Perhaps she works through helping friends and family with their personal problems in this way and therefore wants her journal to be private and hers alone.
12. kaj said the following at 1:25 PM on May 5:
This appears to be an opportunity to compare/contrast "women's needs for privacy" with "men's needs for privacy." Obviously (as has been discussed to great lengths on The Line) men and women have their differences, and privacy/openess in some areas, even in marriage, may be perceived differently by either gender.
13. Naomi said the following at 1:31 PM on May 5:
Nothing private ever. No secrets in marriage.
I'm a chronic journaler. 7 journals in 6 years. But I journal with the understanding that when I get married, my husband will have open access to anything he wants to read. Yes, I may look foolish and may need to explain some things. But a real partnership begins with transparency. It is painful, but necessary.
Yes, journals are meant to be private. But spouses are not "the public."
14. Holly said the following at 1:40 PM on May 5:
I'd side with the lady in this case. I have a journal, though I don't write often, and I would be embarrassed if my husband read it. There's nothing there that I wouldn't tell him about, but HOW we communicate is equally as important as WHAT we communicate, no? Letting a woman hash out her thoughts and feelings on paper gives her the opportunity to be respectful and objective when she brings issues to her husband. That's a benefit to both spouses!
And as for the question of confidentiality, I always ask when someone tells me something on the down-low if it's alright to tell my man. Nobody has objected, but I think the confider feels like my asking honors their confidence.
15. Justice said the following at 2:09 PM on May 5:
Donna Jordan, one of my speakers while in YWAM, once gave me some advice when confessing sin. I had spoken to her about a situation from years prior, a sin I hadn't talked to anyone about. What she told me is that when she got married, she did not want to hear her husband talk about his past sins, that they were irrelevant and she didn't want to hear about them.
What I'm trying to say is that I don't think they need to know EVERYTHING but I would and am open about what's on my laptop with my fiance, but my journal is off-limits. To me it's a sacred thing, even if there's nothing to hide.
16. Lola said the following at 2:17 PM on May 5:
Hey Ted,
I'm not sure that journaling necessarily implies that spouses are keeping secrets from each other.
A Journal entry could be a person’s first draft of a certain thought, experience, feeling or prayer, which may later be vocalized to the relevant people or those who are nearest and dearest to them.
It is possible that she had already communicated most of the contents of her journal to her husband in a slightly more polished version.
Regarding openness in marriage; A Husband should be as open as he would like his Wife to be. However I do not believe that any husband has a right to be offended by any lack of openness. If he senses that the lack of openness is detrimental to his marriage he should ask the Lord to enable him to lead her to the desired level of openness.
17. Tami said the following at 2:28 PM on May 5:
To tell the truth, I don't understand why it's necessary to share your friend's secrets with your husband... it's not *your* secret, it's your *friend's*... so I don't think it should fall into that "no secrets" clause if you have it.
So Louise (3), I totally agree that it's a breach of confidence. And Holly (14), thank you for asking before you share your friends' secrets with your husband.
18. Adam T. said the following at 2:48 PM on May 5:
What does everyone think of the above idea?
IMO, it is betraying a confidence.
It is absolutely, DEFINITELY betraying a confidence, and I can guarantee that the people you know who think otherwise are all women. (And they're wrong.)
I discussed a distressing thing that was going on in my life with an (almost) married friend and asked her to keep it confidential (i.e., to not share it with *anyone*). A short time later, she casually mentioned she had told her boyfriend.
Yeah, QED.
There's nothing there that I wouldn't tell him about, but HOW we communicate is equally as important as WHAT we communicate, no? Letting a woman hash out her thoughts and feelings on paper gives her the opportunity to be respectful and objective when she brings issues to her husband. That's a benefit to both spouses!
I like this way of thinking.
19. Courtney said the following at 2:52 PM on May 5:
Several people have already made good, practical points about the role of transparency in marriage. To theirs I add my more abstract one: IF marriage is meant to reflect the intimacy of the Trinity and the relationship of Christ to his church, I don't see how intentionally witholding thoughts, feelings, or experiences accomplishes those things for the glory of God. Perhaps, it is up to each couple to decide how and to what extent they will walk out this Truth. But as singles we cannot allow ourselves the privilege-except maybe in cases of hurtful proportions--of being offended by such God-given intimacy. Much less that of denying them this facet of their relationship! Single girls, the "marrieds" have a responsibility to be be sensitive and honest with us about how much they share with their husbands, BUT we have to understand that the deepest-darkest-secrets-spilling dynamic of the sleepover may change when one or both of the us gets married!
20. alex said the following at 3:01 PM on May 5:
I read in one of the posts above (lost it now) that in the marriage of Christians there should be freedom of expression and trust. I think this man is 'breaking his own rule', so to speak by reading his wife's journal. It is contrary to a culture of trust and 'freedom of expression' to break someone's boundaries like that. He should have asked her, or if he thought she had something to hide been up front with her about it like an adult. It is very childish and sneaky to read someone's journal w/o permission, and I don't feel this man has a right to demand a view into this woman's private conversation. He needs to understand when someone is talking to him and when they are not.
I think you should take it a step further and let this woman know she has a right to an apology, even though she probably won't get one and may need to do without.
21. Anna said the following at 3:04 PM on May 5:
Ryan (#6) said: "From how she describes it (I COULD BE WRONG) it seems awefully like she feels more free to be more intmiate with a book of musings than she does with her husband, God, and other avenues."
For many people who journal, myself included, the act of meditating and writing is an act of communing with God. I invite Him into my most personal thoughts and feelings, sometimes by literally writing "Dear God..." letters and other times by organizing my thoughts on paper and then allowing Him to walk through them with me and process them.
I'm all for transparency and openness in marriage, but saying that I must share my journal with my (future) husband under ALL circumstances would be equivalent to my telling you (or anyone) that you can't pray or commune with God unless every thought and feeling is spoken aloud in the presence of your spouse.
22. k. said the following at 3:04 PM on May 5:
I see it as respecting the other person's rights and privacy. If you're fine with that level of transparency, then great. But it's also okay to want to keep some things (like journals and mail) private.
23. Ashleigh said the following at 3:04 PM on May 5:
Louise wrote:
As someone who's married, I don't make it a habit of promising others that I won't tell my husband something. If a conversation comes down to that, I often let that friend or family member know that I don't feel comfortable agreeing to those terms.
But at the same time, I also don't spend a lot of time "rehashing" to my husband what friends and family members tell me in confidence. Instead, I approach it with a "need to know" attitude. Does my husband need to know what this female friend of mine has confided in me? Most of the time, the answer is "no." And if that's the case, then I don't share it with him. There are certain things both my married and single girlfriends tell me that he really doesn't need to know, or for that matter, care to know. So I believe it's a matter of exercising wisdom.
24. Rachael said the following at 3:09 PM on May 5:
Ted wrote: "free to tell her friends whatever she wants about me, and so on."
-->What an incredible testimony for us readers! What is said in private may very well go public. Good to be aware of that. Good way to enhance transparency and encourage accountability. Wow! I have a feeling some women would abuse this freedom in a disrespectful manner, but of course some would strive not to do so.
"Is it OK for some things to remain secret even within marriage?"
-->I'd be okay if my (future) husband read my journals. But I don't write in them very often, and I don't record every thought. If someone were to record EVERY thought, including ones that were fleeting and not really heart-felt, I could see how that person would want to keep those secret.
-->Would I want to have access to all my (future) husband's secrets? While I think it would be more comfortable if he was open to me discovering secrets, I think he wouldn't have to feel the need to reveal everything. If there were big sins in the past, I'd want to know generally what they were, though the specific details might not be necessary. Would I have to know everything some past girlfriend wrote him and what he wrote her? No. What's past is in the past. That's how I hope I'll feel anyway...
25. Bethany said the following at 3:48 PM on May 5:
I have been married almost a year, and I do not think it necessary to share my journal with my husband.
I have kept confidences with girlfriends when asked, and my husband respects that. They are not my secrets to tell.
Some counselors even recommend that you write out your feelings - especially during conflicts - in order to calm down and sort out your emotions before discussing with your spouse. Not everything I think and feel is beneficial to my marriage, and when it is necessary to discuss something with my spouse, it's often better if I frame my thoughts in the most respectful way I can. Maybe this can be negotiated between each couple - people have different boundaries.
It may entirely depend on the context - even Ted, do you really mean that your wife can share WHATEVER she wants about you to her friends? I think you can only say that because you trust your wife not to say things that would be hurtful.
To Ryan in comment #6: I pray a lot _through_ writing in my journal. I don't know the details of this particular woman's journal, but it's very possible that she incorporates journaling as part of her prayer life, such that your reading of her practice as journaling vs. praying may be a false dichotomy. And anyway, I don't think introverted reflection is not sinful (maybe you're not saying it is, just throwing it in).
26. Nichole said the following at 3:58 PM on May 5:
"It has been a "friend" for me to turn to when I am frustrated in order to sort out my feelings of anger before I react, so I can calmly approach my husband with kind words in times of conflict."
Speaking as a woman, and admittedly a pretty even-keel woman, we still go so through so many more emotions in processing a situation than I believe guys do. And if you are someone who pours out those emotions on a page as you process them you don't necessarily want someone you love reading those pages. If you put every angry word that crossed your mind in the heat of the moment on to that page I'm just guessing you wouldn't want your spouse to read all those things that can be very very hurtful.
I experience this firsthand in my teenage years when I used my journal to vent about an argument I had with my mother. Then I left it out, not on purpose, where she ending up reading that journal entry. It caused so many hurt feelings which I deeply regret. I had worked through those "feelings" but caused my mom so much hurt and questioning because those "feelings" were never meant to have been shared. They were my selfish sin nature rearing it's ugly head.
That saying I believe some editing should be done in your journals. I know it has been in mine since that moment. During those hate filled moments, should you really be venting it all out on paper? Paper lasts. Words hurt. Even if your journals are never read in life they may be read in your death. Words hurt. Perhaps instead of venting those words out on paper, you should be alone and pour out those feelings and anger to the Lord. He is really the only one capable of helping you process your emotions in a Christ-like manner.
So that is why I have taken to editing my journal. Somethings I may still be embarrassed about should they be public knowledge, like sins I struggle with, but I refuse to cause another pain by pouring out my anger on to the permanence of paper. If you still feel the need to put your feelings on paper, burn it! Burn the paper when you are done. If you have truly worked through those feelings then they no longer exist for you or others.
That being said, if you have read another's journal and been hurt. Speaking from the other side, if those words were written in the heat of the moment, they probably HAVE been processed and no longer true. Trust in God and forgive your loved one when they apologize.
27. Tami said the following at 4:12 PM on May 5:
Question to the marrieds who do feel free to share what their friends say with their spouses:
If your friend says, "Don't tell anyone else," do you not think that your friend is therefore justified in her frustration if you do tell your husband?
Unless you have let her know that you share *everything* with your spouse, I think your friend has a reasonable expectation that you won't tell anyone.
BTW I had a friend who did this all the time. I tell her basically nothing now because I know it'll get broadcast to her husband and anyone else. It makes me sad that I'm not as open with her as I once was, but I have to be realistic. [And yes, I've challenged/confronted her on this(kindly I must add), and she does think it's OK for her to share basically anything I say with anyone, especially her husband... I guess she's like the husband in the OP; no sense of "secrets" among friends.]
28. Novagirl in VA said the following at 4:23 PM on May 5:
If I were the wife, I would be wondering, why did the husband read the journal in the first place? Was he just innocently curious? Did he suspect there was something on her mind that she was not sharing and he was looking for insight?
While I completely agree that it's reasonable to expect one's journal to be private from a spouse, the fact that the husband looked makes me wonder if he was looking "for" something. And if he was, that's something they need to discuss. Indeed, why he looked might even be more critical than the issue of privacy.
29. J.T. said the following at 4:31 PM on May 5:
My personal bias is that any woman who keeps something from a man that she loves is not really in love at all. Before you rake me over the coals, I heard a Josh McDowell message one time (it was a message at Focus on the Family) and in it, he mentioned that the best definition of intamacy he had ever heard was - the capacity to be real with someone. If people keep secrets, how can they be real?
30. Steph said the following at 4:35 PM on May 5:
I agree with Elizabeth (#4). If oneness is our goal in marriage, we need to be working towards a point where our spouses are a part of even the most intimate details of our lives. That includes our relationship with God and even how we work through our conflicts with them. It is pretty difficult to truly do that while keeping a lock on our diaries. I think it is very helpful (perhaps after the fact) for a spouse to see how you worked through an issue. If they get the impression that nothing ever bothers you (because by the time you talk to them, it's all worked out in your head), they'll get a really warped idea of who you are. Yes, we are called to love and respect our spouses. But to make it seem like we always do that perfectly is not only artificial, it will probably be intimidating for them. I think one of the true joys of marriage is the freedom to show that part of yourself that is "raw", as Elizabeth put it, and yet still find grace from your spouse.
31. brx said the following at 4:40 PM on May 5:
How about PRIVATE, but not _secret_? I'd like to be able to let my spouse hold my box of insecurities and trust her when I say 'I love you but please don't look in that box just yet.' I'm not exactly keeping secrets; she knows it exists... and we respectfully shouldn't dump them out all over the floor.
Trust and security is something that is built over time - sometimes decades. And, I think we also feel slighted and insecure to hear that we are _not_ trusted with everything.
I think the question is the same for both sides: are you secure enough in Christ to let your spouse read your journal; Are you secure enough in Christ to hold your spouse' journal and NOT read it?
Grace & peace...
32. Michele said the following at 4:53 PM on May 5:
I've kept a diary or journal since I was 8 years old, and I've carried on doing so since I got married. So far, my husband has expressed no desire to see it, and I've just said that I don't really want him to, but never said that it's totally off limits.
For me, writing is an exercise, it's a chance to get things off my chest. There's not really anything in my journal that I don't already share with my husband - it's the physical act of writing with a nice pen in a pretty book that I need. It's cathartic, and what I write down may not make a lot of sense to the reader. It may just be my mind, laid open.
If my husband asked, I would let him read my journal. Nothing, in terms of issues, events, etc., should be private between partners in a marriage, but I can see the need for a private clearing space. It's really no different, to me, than thinking things through and not speaking until you've had a chance to digest things. For some people, this process is a written one, and therefore, a spouse wishing to read the written catharsis should at least ask before proceeding.
33. Adam T. said the following at 5:15 PM on May 5:
Ashleigh,
But at the same time, I also don't spend a lot of time "rehashing" to my husband what friends and family members tell me in confidence. Instead, I approach it with a "need to know" attitude. Does my husband need to know what this female friend of mine has confided in me? Most of the time, the answer is "no."
I would love to hear an example of a secret that your husband would "need to know".
34. BDB said the following at 5:21 PM on May 5:
Hmmm...if I had to choose between a wife keeping a prayer journal she didn't want to share on one hand...and on the other hand running to her mom or girlfriend to say the same stuff when frustrated...I think I can live with not reading the prayer journal.
There's lots of circumstances when the timing is not right to speak truth - people are not ready to receive it. If a prayer journal is a way to express the feelings without blurting them out before the right time, sounds like a good plan. Sometimes people can better understand a situation by putting words down on paper. Anyone who is a good writer probably has experienced this.
35. Kelly said the following at 6:42 PM on May 5:
As more friends get married, I find it hard to accept that the secrets I tell them will also be known to their husbands. So I keep back more secrets, which is hard.
I've journalled for years and years. I'll happily share certain pages or passages of a journal with a boyfriend but not the whole thing. One boyfriend once asked me to read his entire journal... and I truly DIDN'T want to.
There were far too many dark/black thoughts in there, that scared me, because what we show a private journal and what we show another person can be VERY different things.
Yes, husbands and wives should be open. But if you are angry (and even God gets angry!) is it respectful to show that to your partner? Or should you deal with the emotion and tell your partner about it afterwards?
I think journals should be private, with an understanding that one partner can ASK the other to read it if they really want to. That way, any upsetting entries can be explained.
36. shawni said the following at 6:46 PM on May 5:
I used to be an obsessive journal-keeper. I don't write quite so much anymore, but it's still where I go when I want to really think through something or get perspective on things. I "think" best through writing.
I'm not sure yet how I feel about sharing or not sharing with a spouse. I find that I am very, very self-conscious about what I have written recently (say, in the past year) but earlier stuff I don't feel so "defensive" about. I definitely think I would want to share my journals with my spouse, once there's a little space between me and whatever I was writing about. It might be helpful for him to see the process I go through in sorting things out, so that even if it is stuff I wouldn't say out loud, he can understand better what's going on in my head.
I don't think the argument that "there should be complete openness and trust between spouses" really holds up... Does anyone really think that spouses should share every single thought that crosses their mind? Doubt it. It is part of self-control and maturity not to give expression to every emotion or thought. Since journals are oftentimes a place for those sort of things, isn't it obvious that sometimes they might be better unshared?
Or... perhaps those kinds of thoughts and emotions shouldn't be expressed at all, even on paper...??
37. mindlab said the following at 7:30 PM on May 5:
From a guy's perspective:
Transparency is very important to me, as is confidence. There is not quicker way to gain my disdain than to break a confidence, and my family understands that. Additionally, I desire to be completely transparent with my (future) spouse; secrets/intentionally unshared thoughts can only be caustic.
Since my best friend got married, there are some things that we no longer talk about with each other. I expect that anything I tell him will be discussed with his wife; I would not have it any other way, and I would be grieved to learn that I had burdened him with something he didn't feel free to talk about with his beloved. My loss was his gain, and I trust it will be my turn soon.
Part of love is trust; if you don't trust, you can't love.
38. Nick Coller said the following at 7:39 PM on May 5:
Alright, a bit of food for thought here.
A lot of people have said that the journal is something of a "first draft" for thought processes and the like, something that you wouldn't want anyone else reading because it's not necessarily what you truly think and may bring up issues that aren't even relevant.
I really don't understand this logic. Whenever I write a first draft for an assignment or a letter or anything that even needs a first draft, it always gets chucked away. It's that final one that gets kept, and I don't even think about the first draft from that point on.
Why shouldn't all these initial thoughts be written down on scrap paper and only what one actually thinks/feels go into the journal? I remember back in the days where I used to blog regularly, my only rule to myself was that I'd only write when I was able to look at the situation objectively. I only broke that once, and took down the post a few minutes later when I realised it wasn't what I was actually thinking.
Maybe that's just a difference between men and women? If I work through an issue with a friend (which I assume is similar to writing it down - working out both sides and the talking through it and all that), they never come back to me and remind me of all my random thoughts that I would quite likely be embarrassed about. Yet a journal just sits there baring everything. I would much rather have those working thoughts thrown out and done away with and only have a record of things that I actually believed.
39. Ame said the following at 7:42 PM on May 5:
When married, I think it best, when another wants to confide in you, that you state that you keep no secrets with your spouse ... then let the person decide if they still choose to confide in you. Whether or not you share the confidence with your spouse is separate ... but having a confidence between you and your spouse that cannot be shared with him is not necessary or healthy.
Also, there should never be a question about having any private knowledge of another person of opposite sex when married. Period.
The two 'becoming' one is a process. For some the process will be easier than others and for some take longer than others.
I think it would have shown great respect for his wife had this husband asked permission to read *her* journal first. I would think a spouse would ask if it were okay if they did many things ... not for the need for permission ... or because one spouse has more authority or power than another ... but simply out of respect.
Perhaps there would come a time when this woman would feel free to share her journal ...to give her husband a view into her innermost self. Out of love for her, and especially since it was not discussed before marriage, I believe he should honor and respect her boundaries with a great deal of love ... and with the desire to earn her complete trust and respect so that, someday, she will feel so safe with him that she will want to share her journal.
(yes, i am an avid journal-er, too; so i get that part ;).
40. Jen said the following at 8:05 PM on May 5:
I am an avid journaler myself, but that's been decreasing over the past few months after I got engaged. I just share more openly with my fiance as time goes on, and if something comes up that is confusing or I need to commune with God over, journaling is usually a part of it. I do think that in this particular scenario, the husband was disrespectful of the wife in reading her journal. In general, I think most people consider journals personal and private, i.e. not meant for sharing with others. That doesn't necessarily violate the union of marriage or one-flesh mentality. I think it's acceptable to not share everything with your spouse because I'm not sure that's the goal anyways. You will never know EVERYTHING about your spouse, and if that is your goal, you should probably give up now....however, I think what can be dangerous is intentionally witholding information from a significant other that would BENEFIT the relationship. That is problematic. Processing things through journaling can be quite helpful, especially for introverted folks like myself who just need extra time to think through their thoughts first before sharing. But if it just stops there and the thoughts are never communicated, that does violate the union of marriage as I understand it.
Gossip and secrets shared by friends is a completely different thing. I agree with poster # 23 "As someone who's married, I don't make it a habit of promising others that I won't tell my husband something....Does my husband need to know what this female friend of mine has confided in me? Most of the time, the answer is "no." Yup, don't promise something you can't, and be realistic about what is necessary and appropriate. I'm pretty sure there a probably more important things to be discussing anyways.
One thing I would also want to know more about is why he did this or what motivation there was. I'm a little curious. Because if anything, I think his snooping shows a greater lack of trust than her desire to keep a journal. But that's just my perspective.
41. Christi said the following at 8:22 PM on May 5:
I am not married but my sister is and she is firm believer in "no secrets" (or privacy for that matter) between she and my brother in law. Therefore, she has told him every "sisterly" secret I have ever shared with her. She has actually done this when I was sharing with her some issues going on via the phone. When he asked what I was up to, she proceeded to tell him EXACTLY what was going on. When I question her about why she does this, she has responded with the accusation that I am trying to be devisive between her and her husband and I was just going to have to get over it. I am all about sharing everything with your spouse but he is not MY spouse and I have a problem with him knowing everything about me, personal and otherwise. More than that, he would really prefer not to know some of the things that she is telling him but she tends to force the issue so that there is NOTHING that he doesn't know that she knows about. It has impacted my relationship with my sister to say the least. Is this devisive to expect that she would keep my very personal health issues and or other confidences (e.g confessed sins, etc.) to herself rather than share everything she knows with him? Maybe I am expecting too much?? Of course, the sharing between sisters has been drastically reduced due to her lack of discretion in my perspective.
42. Katie P. said the following at 8:24 PM on May 5:
My journals over the years have served two main purposes: praying to God (I concentrate better than if I just sat there and said stuff aloud or in my head), and venting. My journals are my heart laid bare. Very occasionally, I will read an entry to a close friend if it will help me explain what's going on in my life, but generally, my journals are private.
Since I'm not sure how married couples should deal with this (I'm not married), I know from reading The Shadow of the Almighty by Elisabeth Elliot that Jim Elliot stopped journaling as much when he and Elisabeth married because she became his confidant. But I think writing can serve a therapeutic purpose, and maybe there should be enough respect in a married relationship that private information will be divulged when it's worked through properly.
43. DannieA said the following at 8:58 PM on May 5:
some people have said that we shouldn't vent on paper, because it causes hurt feelings.
1. As a person who has received therapy at one point in my life...I have learned that venting out emotions can be done in healthy or unhealthy ways, and one of the HEALTHY ways of doing this is through journaling.
2. As we all know, men and women are different. Women may have to process situations differently then men. Journaling provides that.
3. Unless asked, a journal is private...your thoughts, organization, frustrations go in there. Yes you will probably be transparent with your spouse, but most likely you will share what you've written down so therefore a privacy boundary is not a bad thing.
I believe the woman had a right to be hurt...and I hope that she and her husband were able to talk about it and avoid future conflict.
44. KJ said the following at 9:15 PM on May 5:
Like many who posted here, I have kept a journal since childhood. Privacy is important even though I've never written down anything bad (actually I've lived a very clean life and there isn't much bad to write about - but I was counseled at an early age never to put anything down in writing that could incriminate me later so I am probably more careful than I need to be.) In my adult life, with junior-high drama and stupid crushes a thing of the past, I find it is a very useful outlet to sort out things that don't make sense at first. If my boyfriend or future husband demanded to read them I would have a problem with that. If he just up and read them without permission it would cause a serious, lasting problem in our relationship because those are my thoughts and if I had wanted them publicly known I would have said those things out loud.
Additionally, there is no need for every little thing to be known in marriage - so the whole "no secrets EVER" notion doesn't hold water with me. There are details about my health and hygiene, for example, that my future husband will not need to know about simply because they are not necessary to share. And there are thoughts that roll through my mind that don't need to be shared with anyone either, not because they're bad or sinful, but because they're mine.
In other words, I totally side with the wife on this one.
45. Christina (in green) said the following at 9:45 PM on May 5:
Adam,
A secret that your husband WOULD need to know is a secret that is affecting you so badly that it needs to be shared... because it is affecting your interactions with other people.
I have a "friend" who has a difficult time taking on the "burdens" of friends. She has such a difficult time because she takes the problem of the friend and carries it like its her own. In her case, it would be more healthy for her to share with her spouse a secret that is affecting her in such a way because he can help her gain perspective and pray about it (at least I know this to be true concerning her current boyfriend). However, it is important for her to be upfront with the friend that if they share a secret with her, its going to be shared with her AND her spouse.
********************************
To all those that think that EVERYTHING should be out in the open in a marriage, I ask you how many of you think you're married to God? Or are going to be married to God? Humans can only handle so much. And our husbands and wives ARE human. You can't yell at your husband in the heat of the moment and expect a favorable reaction. You can yell at God and trust in his perfect love and mercy when you are angry.
Seriously, there are going to be hurtful things that are going to creep into your mind when you are angry, distressed, depressed, hurt that shouldn't be said. That doesn't mean you don't communicate that feeling, but it does mean that you need to gain SOME perspective (your not perfect, and it is important to share with your spouse those feelings) before outpouring your heart to your spouse. When he was gone all night with his buddies and not returning your phone calls when you were so sick to your stomach from onset of the monthly blues, you don't want him to come home to you screaming at the top of your lungs in the irrationality that tends to overtake the female mind at that time... only to discover that their car broke down and they didn't have any reception and had to walk to the nearest gas station to get a towing service out there. Him being tired and exhausted and stressed won't mix well with PMS. I say let it out in a journal so your better able to handle the emotions when you DO face him.
And those initial feelings should not need to be publicized. The person who mentioned that paper lasts...sometimes burning the paper helps =p And can serve as a release as well - and a good mental practice of releasing those emotions to God.
46. Bryce said the following at 9:53 PM on May 5:
If a woman writes down her thoughts before she talks to her husband with them, it could be(*could*, assuming the husband is not trying to hurt his wife, but to understand her) beneficial to their marriage for the husband to see them. The husband could 'get into' the thought process of his wife, and learn how she thinks that he might be careful and caring, knowing how she reacts.
47. Ashleigh said the following at 10:02 PM on May 5:
Adam T. (#33) wrote:
I have to say, I sense sarcasm in that question. But the truth is, there are situations where something I know about someone -- that I haven't shared with my husband -- becomes something helpful for him to know.
For example, perhaps I have a friend who's sensitive in a specific area because of past experiences or relationships. It's something she hasn't asked me to "not tell anyone," but I'm fairly sure it was told to me in confidence and not something she wants me to go around freely sharing. If my husband happens to accidentally push one of those sensitive buttons when we're around her because he's unaware of it, I may tell him later about it -- probably in vague terms -- but enough info so that he has a awareness and sensitivity to it in the future if another similar situation arises.
I see this as something he "needs to know" in order to facilitate peace and avoid any unintentional wounding. And, even in these type of situations, I exercise wisdom. I don't dish out all the details. I only share enough to be helpful.
48. julieH said the following at 10:04 PM on May 5:
Honestly, when I read the way this woman is relating to her journal, I am a little concerned... warning bells are going off.
"my journal was my best friend... my journal was a place of refuge. My journal has been a place go to when I am angry or frustrated or disappointed; when I am grateful or feeling distant from God..."
I think journaling can be helpful... but this description seems like it could be an unhealthy situation...
God should be the best friend, refuge, place to go when angry, frustrated, or disappointed, place to run to when grateful or feeling distant. Did this woman mean she is turning to God through journaling... or has the journal become an idol?
We're not going to be sharpened if we don't own up to our emotions to someone. Maybe it's your best girlfriend/guyfriend instead of your spouse, in some situations. But if all of your raw emotion is hidden in a journal, and no one ever challenges your attitudes, then how do you become more like Christ?
Our thoughts, not just our words, come from what our heart is full of... We know God knows all of it... but a little bit of human accountability can go a long way.
49. EM said the following at 10:44 PM on May 5:
I think you've thought this one out well, Ted.
I've also thought this through quite a bit. In a perfect world, I don't think spouses should intentionally keep things from each other that affect each other.
That said, this is not a perfect world. Trust can take time to grow between spouses and sometimes spouses violate trust in horrific ways.
But, as has been pointed out already, even in good relationships, being 'one' does not mean everything must be told.
Speaking to confidences in marriage, trust need not mean nothing is ever kept quiet so much as aspiring to reach a point where that which is most important to me no longer has to be private. A spouse need not tell trade secrets with which s/he is entrusted at his / her company. Doing so is probably a violation of his / her contract. A police detective doesn't tell her husband private case details on a regular basis. A lawyer need not tell his wife all about the strategy for winning his next trial. Likewise a spouse generally ought not tell the details of his / her friend or relatives struggles to his / her spouse unless consent is obtained. If you feel like you ought to share a confidence entrusted to you, you can say something simple like: "My husband might have some insights into the situation you are bringing up. I really respect his opinion and have always been able to trust his discretion. Would you mind if I asked him for his advice about this?" Then, respect your friend's response just as you would want your counselor or pastor or attorney to respect yours.
If you are struggling with how the confidences you are keeping are affecting you or with whether the counsel you are giving is wise, there are almost always ways to tell just the part that affects you directly -- how you are feeling, what your Godward question may be -- without compromising the confidence with which you have been entrusted. I say that as someone who values discretion VERY highly, has chosen not to again entrust information to friends who have violated my confidence previously and who still does need to seek the counsel of a wise pastor or friend on occasion when I am counseling someone else regarding a particularly difficult situation.
Regarding the journaling concept specifically, I too keep a journal. I rarely write in it but when I do, it is usually in dark and difficult times. Much of my journal is prayers, doubts, struggles and working through tough decisions before God. I would expect that my husband would never read it without my asking him to (if I ever married). Someone reading my journal would get a really distorted picture of my mental health. Although there may be parts of it I might share w/ a mate as an act of trust, I would consider it a violation of trust for my journal to be read without that being my choice.
50. Samuel Keane-Rudolph said the following at 10:47 PM on May 5:
I think there's a fine line between secrecy and privacy. While it's true that in marriage, two become one, physically, emotionally, spiritually, it's also true that we do not tell our spouses everything. There are some things that they, by virtue of being different persons and of the opposite gender, simply won't understand.
Being one does not mean being the same.
That being said, I have no problems with a journal being kept private by a spouse-- however, if I were the young woman's husband, I'd want to know why it was being kept private and in general what she wrote in it. I.e., "I use this to straighten out my thoughts before I talk to you. It helps me clarify what I think and decide what it is I really want to say."
That would be completely acceptable to me.
51. BDB said the following at 11:08 PM on May 5:
You can kind of see an analogy with the separate e-mail vs. couple e-mail thing.
One of my friends has a combined family e-mail. In fact, just tonight his wife responded to an e-mail I sent to him. Several years ago this was a bit jarring. He confided in me that he needed advice on an ethics issue at work. I responded to him, and SHE sent a set of questions back to me. I had to get used to this with them.
Other couples keep separate e-mails. If you want to schedule something with them, the best course is to e-mail them both. Then they'll either call or e-mail each other and one of them will get back with an answer. But they clearly don't know what the other one is doing via e-mail.
I'm pretty sure this is what I'd prefer, too, since I'm so e-mail oriented in a work setting anyway. Besides, if someone e-mails me an ethical dilemma, once I become aware of it I might end up being compelled to testify about something, since I don't qualify for any privileged communications. I'm comfortable taking that risk, but I wouldn't want my spouse to be subject to that risk.
52. Larry Gross said the following at 11:15 PM on May 5:
I think the situation really depends on what the intent of the thing you wish kept private is. Some people gain great benefit through writing their thoughts down in order to organize them and see them on paper. They think best this way. In the same way that it would be unhealthy to spill our every sinful thought to our spouse - in this special case, it would certainly be unhealthy for your spouse to read these unfiltered mental struggles.
That said, I would conjecture that this type of person is in the minority. It does not seem reasonable to assume that a good number of people use writing as a means of "working things out" before they "go public." While it certainly seems appropriate for this woman to graciously request her husband to understand this... we should caution ourselves to not use this as a means to keep areas of our lives more private from our spouse.
Privacy without oversight tends to breed sin. We desperately need our spouse's nose smack in the middle of our business. We need their assistance in this war against sin. Areas that are blank to them or kept from them are areas where sin can grow and fester. Let us caution ourselves not to think that privacy is somehow a God-given blessing. Transparency is the way of growth... privacy in marriage tends to be the way of bitter sin (unless, you're that rare soul who really does think better on paper than you do in your own head).
53. Lois said the following at 11:34 PM on May 5:
My journal is MINE, thank-you very much. If anyone, even my (future) husband, ever read it without permission, I would feel betrayed and would have tremendous difficulty trusting that person again (I speak from experience -- it's happened before). My journal is where I pour out my innermost thoughts and feelings. It is where I work through what my heart is going through. It is a letter to God, when I need to talk to Him. It is my confidant when I need someone to talk to. My journal is a part of ME.
When I get married, I expect I will write less and less as I confide more and more in him. He will become my secret-keeper, not my journal. But I will still need it to process some things, I am sure.
I look forward to reading parts of it to him -- especially the parts from during my relationship with him! I expect he will laugh a lot and be amazed at hearing "the other side" of the story that he didn't have a clue about!
When I am married and people confide in me, I will not tell those secrets to my husband. I will tell him MY secrets, but the secrets of other people are not mine to tell.
There's my two cents!
54. H.A.P said the following at 5:35 AM on May 6:
Rose Colored Glasses Warning: only married nine months! :)
My husband and I both have a stack of journals starting when we were teens. Reading each other's journals (actually starting before we married) was good for us. I'm from a divorced family and tend to guard my feelings, and my husband tends to be very private as well. We knew this would not be healthy in marriage. Giving each other the right to read the journals was a huge act of trust. What we read gave us a deeper understanding of the others thoughts and struggles and helped build intimacy in our relationship. Having said that, our journals were fairly "ho hum". We both came to the Lord as children and so the little bit of foolishness and romance sprinkled in the pages might have been difficult reading but not at all a threat to the intimacy that we enjoy. Funny thing, the last few months my husband has stopped journaling completely and I do very rarely. I don't know his reasons, but now I would rather talk most things over with him rather than write them down.
55. Louise said the following at 6:01 AM on May 6:
One more thing: some of the "spouse sharers" actually had an attitude that the friend who swore him/her to "secrecy" should have known that his/her spouse was exempt from said secrecy.
I have a friend whose husband listens in on her telephone conversations. One time on the telephone she was being evasive but I just assumed he was in the room. When she later told me the truth I was livid, since during previous telephone conversations I had revealed private details of my life which I would not want him to hear!
IMO one has the right to expect that phone conversations are private, unless one is specifically told otherwise.
She lives in a distant state, so when we talk it must be on the telephone.
I immediately called another friend of ours and said "Julie told me her husband listens while she's on the phone. When you call her, ask her if he is home, and if the answer is yes be careful what you say."
Our other friend very much appreciated the warning.
I personally would have kicked him to the curb several years ago, but I don't like telling other people what to do.
56. Amy P. said the following at 6:31 AM on May 6:
This whole situation seems to boil down to one very common early marriage issue:
Their families of origin each had different/opposite expectations for the same situation AND they never negotiated this issue prior to being married.
Although I am not married, I have seen this in my friend's marriages. When family of origins have opposite beliefs (her family viewed journals as private and his viewed them as public), then the couples need to negotate and develop their own framework for moving forward. They need to discuss their feelings and figure out how they can agree on a stance to take in the future. Also, it is worth noting that it doesn't seem like this couple discussed this at all prior to marriage and that both had EXPECTATIONS that did not match.
I think that their is no "right" or "wrong" answer to this question as it depends on how you were raised. This couple has to talk about this rationally and agree on how they will handle things moving forward.
Oh well, that's my 2 cents.
57. Matt from DC said the following at 6:54 AM on May 6:
Adam T.,
Re comment 18, you are incorrect. I am not a woman and I shared openly with my wife and expected the same in return.
Re comment 33, here's one for you. A few years ago my wife's cousin was suicidal and addicted to coke. She was living on her own in a place that was dragging her down with it. So, we opened a spare room to her and helped to get her back on her feet. During that time my wife told me anything and everything she promised to her cousin to keep in confidence because I needed to know because it is my job to protect my family.
I think what my wife did was fine.
However, I think your tone toward women in general (comment 18) and toward Ashleigh (comment 33) lack respect and humility.
About the original post, I'm in the middle like Ashleigh on this topic and wouldn't give my word to hide things from my wife, wouldn't share anything and everything about everyone, and would make a decision based on necessity about what to share with my wife.
Marriage is partnership and union. I found sharing and acceptance created great trust and helped the two of us act as one.
I'm going to take a wild guess now that you haven't been/aren't married. As well, you sound like you're arguing from the point of view of someone who has been betrayed. Have you shared something with someone that you wanted to be kept secret and later found yourself in an awkward or embarrassing situation?
58. Lance said the following at 7:09 AM on May 6:
The concept that couples should have absolutely no secrets, especially a secret in the sense of a friend confiding in one of the two, doesn't really make sense. If that were true I'd never want to discuss private issues with my priest. Certain issues are between certain people and they are not free to be shared. If there is not freedom to maintain secrets (at least secrets regarding those outside the marriage) then the confidentiality right of priests/laywers/pscychologists/etc. would all be inherently suspect.
As for the topic at hand, I believe the woman has a right to upset. Personally, I think it would be best if the person who keeps a journal was willing to share it if their partner insisted, and yet at the same time I think the partner should not insist on viewing it unless there are extenuating circumstances.
59. Trevor D. said the following at 7:27 AM on May 6:
I think Ame (#39) makes a key point here: the first question to answer is "why didn't the husband speak with his wife first before doing this?" The questions of privacy, transparency, etc are probably best left to the individual couples, as different couples choose to live very differently.
Of course, if the wife is very defensive, or had given the husband reason to suspect infidelity, or whatever, then his actions become more understandable, but I would still have started with talking rather than with reading.
60. James said the following at 8:09 AM on May 6:
Alot of people have said how I feel on this issue. Now, while I would want my future wife to be transparent with me, I can understand that she sees and processes things differently than I and may need to vent those things on paper.
However, to re-quote and add to something someone above me wrote:
Paper lasts, words hurt.
Get a shredder.
You may need to write those words out to work them out at the time, but why KEEP them once the issue becomes past tense? In the future, you shouldn't need to come back to those things and the risk of discovery is huge!
I once was going through a hard time with a lady-friend of mine and once I simply had to write it out. Now, it's not my nature to do so since when I write, EVERYTHING goes through a filter so most of the time when I write you get the semi-polished version. Not this time. I wrote and wrote and wrote, and then when I was done I was going to send it to her. However, my writer's nature intervened (more like God did) and made me look at what I'd written. I saw how selfish, self-centered, self-pitying, and absolutely horrid my words were. I threw that writing away (tore it up first).
That writing out had been necessary in order for God to root out and show me what was wrong (and for good reason, as soon after she apologized to me and because I'd put that pain away I was able to say "I forgive you, will you forgive me?"), but it didn't need to be kept.
So, ladies and gents who feel the need to use writing in a journal to sort through things FIRST before presenting them, invest in a shredder. Once whatever raw issue you're going through has been dealt with, destroy your writing. Otherwise that writing is just like a left-over, undetonated artillery shell from a past war: it can go off and hurt someone who it was never meant to hurt. Better clean up the mess after the issue is through than to leave it.
And if you choose to leave it, make sure you'd be alright with your spouse reading it. If not, destroy it.
Because:
Paper lasts, words hurt.
Get a shredder.
61. Sue M said the following at 8:44 AM on May 6:
My husband read my journal in the first year we were married, and I never kept one again. I don't agree that we shouldn't keep anything from our spouse. I have many times had to process my anger before responding to my husband. Instead of calling him a miserable selfish cad, I try to address the issue. If we truly said everything we thought, our relationships would be in shambles.
62. Tami said the following at 9:02 AM on May 6:
I don't understand how a confidence that someone shares with you is something that comes between you and your spouse.
If it's always expected that married people will share their friends' business with their spouses, then how could married pastors and counselors -- who are expected to keep confidences, sometimes literally abiding by established codes of ethics -- ever fulfill that function without violating the trust of the person who told them the confidence?
63. Leah said the following at 9:28 AM on May 6:
Ryan- I hate to say this, but your comment simply illustrates your lack of knowledge about the female mind.
Yes, we can talk to God. But writing often helps us structure our thoughts better and even help us understand what we're thinking and feeling. The woman in the letter doesn't make any comment about her relationship with God, so it is unfair of you to say you think she's more intimate with the journal than with God. You have no way of knowing that.
And honestly, how can you seriously think she should be THAT open with her husband? Bad, bad idea. We are all sinful humans and have bad thoughts about other people. Surely you remember Thumper's mother's advice in the movie Bambi- if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say it at all. Now, we all know that's taking it a bit far- there are often unpleasant things that require talking about- but there are also often unpleasant thoughts that we have that are best kept unspoken.
If I have an argument with my fiance and think that he's being selfish and biased and purposely ignoring my point of view, would that be a good idea for me to vocalise those thoughts? Definitely not, because it's almost guaranteed that they are unfair and false accusations. But writing down how I'm feeling and what I'm thinking can help me sort out my thoughts, establish what the root of the problem is, and how best to tackle it. I can then take that root problem to my fiance so that we can work on it together, but for him to know those initial thoughts would not do any good and would likely do some damage. It would simply serve no good purpose for spouses to be that 110% transparent with each other, especially women who are so emotional and often take extra work to sort out their thoughts.
mindlab- your claim that "secrets/intentionally unshared thoughts can only be caustic" is also like ryan's- only serves to demosntrate your lack of knowledge about how the female mind works. See above. It is not necessarily caustic so it is very unfair of you to label it that way when realistically, you'd have no idea, as judging from your comments you're neither female, nor married nor engaged to one.
JT- when you said "My personal bias is that any woman who keeps something from a man that she loves is not really in love at all" you lost all credibility in my eyes. Have you ever been engaged or married? If you had, you'd know that withholding certain things is a sure sign of loving someone. If I didn't love my fiance, I'd have no hesitation in letting fly the accusations and frustrated emotions when we argue. But instead, because I love him, I try to stem them and vocalise only what is important to fixing the problem. I'm not very good at it yet, but I try, because I love him. If you think sharing every thought that crosses your mind is the definition of love, I'm sure glad I'm not marrying you. I pity you if you think "being real" requires expressing your every thought to everyone around you.
Tami- (and those who have asked similar questions)- I think that if you say "don't share this with anyone" to a married person, you must expect them to share it with their spouse. If they find it particularly distressing and their spouse asks what's bothering them, they must be allowed to share. That said, if someone says "don't share this with anyone" to a married person, I think the married person should warn them out of courtesy that it may get shared with the spouse.
THAT said, I don't think the person telling the secret should be too frustrated or hurt if they discover the spouse was told. Like I said, they should not expect the married person to keep it from the spouse. If they do want it kept from the spouse, they should say that specifically. If that causes a problem for the person listening, then the secret should not be shared.
Ok, that might all sound a bit convoluted. So a conversation should go a bit like this:
Single Person: I have something I would like to tell you, but I don't want you to tell anyone else. (At this stage, they should expect the spouse to be exempt from the promise).
Married Person (preferred option): Ok, but you have to understand I might have to share it with my husband/wife.
OR
Married person (less preferred option, but doesn't negate what should be the Single Person's expectation): That's ok. What's wrong?
I don't believe it is wrong of the married person to not give a warning- it's just nicer and more thoughtful if they did. A single person should consider the fact that spouses often have "no secrets" policies, and it would be unfair to automatically assume a spouse be included in a "don't tell" promise.
That said, I think married people should really only tell their friends' secrets to their spouse when it is called for. eg. if it is distressing or distracting them and the spouse asks, or if it's pertinent to the spouse. While I won't say this is wrong, I think it's uncalled for in situations like Christi's, when the married person (her sister) is sharing every little secret when it's completely uncalled for by her husband.
I mean, telling the spouse should really be no different to not telling anyone. The spouse shoudl be trustworthy enough not to tell anyone else, and respectful enough not to change his/her attitude towards the person who owns the secret, based on information contained in the secret.
Adam T- "It is absolutely, DEFINITELY betraying a confidence, and I can guarantee that the people you know who think otherwise are all women. (And they're wrong.)" Wow, you sure know how to kill any credibility someone might give you. "They're wrong". Lamest argument ever. I'll just as legitimately claim that *you're* wrong. (For what it's worth, read the previous sections of this comment to find out my real opinion on sharing friends' secrets with your spouse).
Naomi, "nothing private" does not equal "no secrets" as you imply. While I think "no secrets" is a good policy, "no privacy" is NOT. Read my previous thoughts (in this comment) and you'll know why.
64. a sassy sister said the following at 9:38 AM on May 6:
I think this also hits on the issue of oneness, openness, trust and privacy, as many other posters have already mentioned. However, I think that "oneness" in marriage is a lifelong process. In saying that, I think that even in marriage, you are still learning about the other person you are in covenant with. So, in this scenario, I don't believe the question is about whether or not she should have a private journal apart from her husband. The questions I would have are:
What is this woman's views on trust, privacy and frank communication? Many times people can say they want frank communication, but they really want someone who is honest but also has the ability not be verbally brutal in their delivery of honest opinions and feelings.
What is the husband and wife's views on what real intimacy in a relationship is? How are those perceptions of intimacy affecting how these issues of openness in the marriage?
65. Tami said the following at 9:42 AM on May 6:
Larry (52), I surmise that a great many people need (or at least prefer) to write things out first. Look at how many journalers are responding to this post. :)
Just like some people prefer to talk things through, others prefer to write it out first. Sometimes it's a matter of getting organized. I don't think it necessarily means you're hiding something sinful from your spouse. As others have said, sometimes it's better that we work out our frustration in private before sharing our emotions rashly. I hear men do this by going to be alone with their thoughts for a while; many women (as evidenced by this blog post) do it by journaling.
66. Elisabeth said the following at 9:59 AM on May 6:
I journal quite a lot myself like a lot of other ladies. I mostly do it because I like to review the days events, but also because I use it to vent and as a prayer journal.
Because I record different events in my life I've actually gone back and read entries to my husband about what I was thinking about, say during our courtship.
I don't think he would ever read my journal esp. not without asking, but I don't think I'd have any big problems. (It might actually be rather boring in some places!) We both have things that we haven't told each other yet (haven't been married a year yet), but I think we'll get there eventually.
Just remember--we're all a work in progress and we aren't perfect. Someday we will be, but that will take awhile!
67. Steve said the following at 11:02 AM on May 6:
I've learnt this the hard way in my marriage. I've shared details about my parent's marriage with my wife and she constantly uses it against me. There are somethings which are better left unsaid or kept out of bounds (like a journal). There are certain areas about feelings and emotions that only God can handle the right way. If your partner makes you feel guilty about not being transparent over trivial things, it's sign of controlling behaviour. Only a fool talks or shares without discernment. Eccl 10:12-14
68. Esther said the following at 11:21 AM on May 6:
To Nick #38: You seem to agree that sometimes we need a sounding board to work through an issue, to see all sides and come to the best solution. As a woman, I have found that men get frustrated and confused by the variety and intensity of emotions that I can bring to an issue. Sometimes I don't even like to go to my best female confidantes with my struggles, because there is so much emotion involved. Journaling allows me to get all the angles out, to think things through in my own head and heart, without well-intentioned efforts to fix things coming from the listener (journals are blessedly silent). Why save those musings? You said yourself that once you've arrived at a conclusion, you forget the process. I've found it instructive to go back and see how God worked through an issue with me several years ago. I'm able to laugh at myself and my adolescent fears and angers. As for letting someone else read it: I started journaling in 4th grade. If anyone at all wants to read the musings of a selfish 10-year-old, just let me know! Some of the high school stuff I've been tempted to burn, but then thought maybe it would be useful if I ever have children going through some of the same stuff, for me to go back and try to "think like a teenager" or even let them read portions, maybe they won't make the same mistakes! For much of it, I think I'd let my husband read it if he wanted to, but I wouldn't force it, and I hope that he would treat it respectfully and with the understanding of what it is. Just as I hope that I would be careful in his tools or on his traditional fishing trip, whatever it is that he considers personal, where he goes to unwind. I hope that I wouldn't be forbidden anywhere, but I'd try to be sensitive, and if he really feels that the annual hunting expedition with his buddies wouldn't be the same with me there, I pray that I would have the grace to respect that and not insist on my rights as wife.
69. P&P said the following at 11:24 AM on May 6:
I think that many things are best left private. I understand that some couples want to share "everything," but there are times when it's best that some things remain in confidence. I recall talking to a newly-married friend about a difficult personal situation. A few days after the conversation, I happened to give her husband a ride home. I was floored when he brought up my situation, as I thought I had spoken with my friend in confidence. I began to distance myself from them after that instance. I think out of respect for my privacy she should have kept her mouth shut.
As for the journal, it's private. Here's another way of looking at it: have you ever heard the old (and very good) piece of advice that if you're angry with someone to write them a letter and then never send it? A journal can be used in the same way. You can work out your frustrations on paper, rather than take them out on your partner.
Also, don't you married folks want just a little mystery in your relationships?
70. Mrs. Spit said the following at 11:34 AM on May 6:
I guess one of the things I have learned in 7(!) years of marriage is that I don't have to share every thought with Mr. Spit. In fact, my thoughts are often vain, silly, insipid, and sometimes just mean spirited. Not every thought in my head is permanent, and not every thought in my head is one that I want to entertain.
I guess part of marriage is transparency - I need to be accountable for making my marriage work. If I'm venting to my journal, my priest or my best friend, and I'm not talking to my husband, well, the very least is that the problem isn't going to be fixed.
But, of course there are secrets that are good. When I planned a surprise party for Mr. Spit, there was skullduggery and some dissimulation and an outright lie (about why we were going where we were). I don't think anyone is suggesting that we should never plan surprises that don't allow us to be transparent.
It seems to me, it's more of a matter of knowing your own conscience. If I'm using my journal to work through my thoughts and feelings, and I will raise those thoughts and feelings after I have settled my own mind, I think it's quite fair to request and expect both the privacy and the space to do this.
71. Anna said the following at 1:43 PM on May 6:
"Paper lasts, words hurt.
Get a shredder."
I understand this idea of the danger of the written word's permanence. I would suggest, however, that shredding pages of your journal only be done in very special and rare situations.
Why not shred those hateful, angry words? Because so much of our walk with God is based on HISTORY. I have written avidly in my journal from about the age of ten, and God has used my bitter, confused or hurt entries to teach me so much. I look back on my attitudes and emotions and learn and GROW - the most awesome lesson I've learned through perusing old journals is that God takes our filthiest mistakes and our most sinful attitudes and transforms them into something beautiful through His power and grace. I DO forget where I've been, and my journals have been an invaluable reminder to me of God's great mercy and grace and my desperate NEED for that mercy and grace.
Don't be deceived - you WILL forget where you've been and what you've come from unless you have that written record to look back at. Time casts both bitter shadows and golden haze over our pasts, and those journal entries can reaffirm in your mind what reality really was.
So wait a few weeks or months before plugging in that shredder.
72. Tami said the following at 2:06 PM on May 6:
I guess I'm put on notice to no longer share any type of confidence with my married female friends? I hope that's not true.
Leah (65), thanks for your illustration, but I still disagree. I think a violation of a confidence is a violation of a confidence, no matter what. If I want the husband to know, I can tell him when they're both around. Besides, I think some things should stay between women.
For my own example (which has happened):
Unmarried woman tells married woman about a personal issue, saying "don't tell anyone."
Married woman tells husband, figuring (wrongly) that "anyone" still doesn't include her husband.
Husband tells his friend (who happens to be a friend of the unmarried woman) because wife did not happen to mention that it's private.
Husband's friend (seemingly innocently) says, "Hey, I heard about your struggle with [x problem]" to the unmarried woman.
How is the unmarried woman supposed to feel? Should the married woman still feel OK about telling her husband what was going on with the unmarried woman?
It is *not* the married person's secret to share with anyone. "Anyone" still does not equal a husband. If the person is compelled to share everything with her husband, she should make that clear to her friend. It's not fair for the unmarried woman to find that out the hard way.
BTW I plan on being open with my husband. However, I have no intention of telling him my friends' secrets, and I have no expectation that he would share (for example) what's going on in his accountability group with me. (Except, of course, I hope he would share his *own* struggles.)
73. cn said the following at 3:23 PM on May 6:
This article seems to demonstrate a difference in expectation about how privacy should or should not exist between the husband and wife. The author of the letter says,
"I'd never told him how I felt about my journal -- because in the home that I grew up in, journals were sacred. It was a spoken rule in my parents home that a journal is totally, completely, entirely private..."
"...But because of his background and because he feels that it would be fine for me to read his journal (if he had one), he doesn't understand why I am so upset about the whole ordeal."
This is clearly an issue of a difference in expectations passed down through their families of origin.
I hope she will show him a great deal of forgiveness and communicate through this in order to develop a conviction that suits their *new* family. Processing this together should not be to define a rule about a journal but rather discussion on vulnerability and growing in intimacy.
An avid journal-er myself, I recognize how intimate a person's journal is, and how hurtful it can be for someone to read it without permission. The author of this letter refers to her journal as "sacred" and a "friend." I hope she finds her friendship with her husband to be more "sacred" than that with her journal. He might feel as though the privacy of her journal places a barrier between them. However, even if he feels he did nothing wrong, needs to take responsibility for contributing to hurt feelings she might have.
74. TN1 said the following at 3:33 PM on May 6:
Sometimes I "pray" to God in my journals---just writing out my prayers. I think those are private and between the Lord and myself alone. But I don't know what to think on this one...I keep a journal now and can't imagine someone reading it, but I would hate for my husband to feel like I'm hiding something from him if he ever comes across my journal one day hidden away in, say, a drawer or something. I'm not sure what the answer is.
75. Lola said the following at 4:11 PM on May 6:
On one hand I wouldn't tell my married friend anything that I wouldn't want her to share with her spouse. I tend to keep such secrets to myself and God. Furthermore since I tend to befriend both husband and wife (together), it wouldn't matter to me much if she told her husband.
On the other hand, I will be upset if I told my spouse about a friend’s problem and he informed her of his knowledge of the situation, especially if the matter is one of a sensitive nature or if she is not comfortable with my husband.
I do not share the view that I need to divulge other peoples secrets to my husband, however it might become necessary in a situation where I am particularly burdened by my friends situation or/and in need of my husband’s wealth of knowledge in order to advise my friend. Now, does this necessitate insensitively informing my friend that my husband knows of her problem/secret? I think not.
76. Nikki Webber said the following at 5:22 PM on May 6:
My new husband read my journal a few months before our marriage - I gave it to him of my own free will as a Christmas gift. It was the best thing I ever could have done, and "the best Christmas gift I've ever received" as I was able to be totally, completely honest and open to him.
The only downside was that his dad picked it up a few weeks later, thinking it was a Bible study Justin was working on, and proceeded to read almost the entire thing.
That temporarily really hurt. I was very embarassed that my father-in-law should know such personal things about me.
But you get over it. It was still the best thing I ever could have done.
77. J.T. said the following at 6:32 PM on May 6:
Leah,
I don't think we're talking about the same kind of secrets here. I'm talking about destructive secrets that people supress because they think it will hurt someone they love, and in the end the truth comes out and utterly destroys trust, faith, etc. I could give dozens of accounts of relationships that were obliterated by these secrets.
78. Kelly said the following at 7:04 PM on May 6:
Like Tami said, I'm now very concerned about the confidences I share with my married friends. Because something *I* think is private, her husband may not.
Also, the idea of a husband-whom-I-don't-particularly-get-along-with knowing my girly/emotional problems is quite humiliating.
--
Now, a couple of you have suggested a shredder for journals. No, no, no! The written word can be incredibly powerful for reviewing your journey with God! To see where you started and how far He has brought you. Especially in those times of darkness.
Imagine if certain books of the Bible had been shredded because they were less-than-respectful!
79. Esther G said the following at 7:34 PM on May 6:
I totally agree with (43) Lois. My journal is just that my journal it is where I write my prayers, my love letters to God, where I voice my emotions. everyone processes things different. I do burn my journals when I'm done. I do believe the young ladies husband should have asked before he read. we are all human and all make errors. Obviously this is a prayer point for the couple.
80. Katharine said the following at 8:32 PM on May 6:
My trust in the Lord has been built slowly over years of walking with Him. And still I find myself in places where trust is a struggle. Trust takes time and work in every relationship. Maybe implicit, total, and complete trust isn't there by the day a couple stands at the altar...that doesn't negate growing trust as a goal. Journal reading could help or hinder that goal depending on the vulnerability of the author, the sensitivity of the reader, and the place where their relationship is.
For myself...I write my heart out and think my thoughts through...but I do make an especial effort not to smear people in those pages anymore than I would to their face. I wouldn't want to be wishing I could come back from heaven and destroy those things if I die in a car crash tomorrow. ;)
81. Fran said the following at 9:13 PM on May 6:
I scrapbook journal. Everything in my journal is personal to me. The only way to understand my scraps is to know me well. I hope someday my husband will run across my scrapbook. I want my husband to know me.
82. Leah said the following at 9:35 PM on May 6:
Tami (72)- In the situation you gave, I'd say the married friend is at fault because they did not explain to their husband that it was a private matter, and not to share. I don't believe her sharing it with him is wrong, because, like I said in my last comment, it should be no different to *not* telling him- he should be trustworthy enough NOT to tell anyone else (clearly the wife was at fault for not emphasising the privacy of the matter), and respectful enough not to change his attitude towards his wife's friend based on information contained in the secret.
so, to use your example:
Unmarried woman tells married woman about a personal issue, saying "don't tell anyone."
Married woman tells husband, figuring (correctly) that "anyone" doesn't include her husband (see as the whole "oneness"/"together as one" really shouldn't make a difference). Married woman tells husband it is private, and not to share it with anyone.
Husband does not share it with anyone, and does not alter his behaviour towards his wife's friend.
End result: Friend has shared her secret without it being spread around; wife has been able to share a possible burden with her husband (as is good and right), and the result is no different than if the wife had not shared it with her husband.
83. Ame said the following at 11:39 PM on May 6:
#67 Steve - You have a very good point. There is a place where trust must be earned, especially if abused or broken. There is nothing wrong with that ... actually, that is healthy.
There is a place for learned growth here, too. Just for example ... and not trying to imply anything b/c I do not have enough details ... not my business. But it would be nice if Steve could approach his wife and share with her how she hurts him with the confidence he shared with her. His wife then would have the choice to learn and mature from this experience and to earn her husband's trust back again, or to ignore him.
Just because we may be married to someone does not mean we *must* share EVERYthing. If our spouse has proven they cannot be trusted with certain things, for a plethora of reasons, then one would be wise to heed that knowledge.
Tami #72 - that is terrible what happened with that couple. While she might be someone who can be trusted, obviously her husband isn't (or she doesn't know yet how to communicate things to him appropriately).
As for the husband who listens in on his wife's phone conversations ... that's controlling/abusive/ocd, to say the least.
***
I was married for 20 years and have many friends who've been married that long, and I would like to offer some encouragement. Allow your marriage the time to grow. Allow your spouse the space to grow and mature. Forgive easily and yet wisely. Be willing to ask God to show you ways to share with your spouse how they have hurt you ... and let God take care of it. We all need time to 'grow up.' I think that a lot of Ted's great maturity and integrity in his marriage is that he is a little older and has had more time to 'grow up.' There's nothing wrong with that ... we all need time to grow up. Many of these issues will work out over time if handled appropriately. It takes time to 'become one' ... allow your marriage ... and the marriages of your friends ... that time.
***
On the issue of *privacy* vs *secrecy* ... that's really a big one. My marriage ended b/c my ex was addicted to porn and took it waaaay tooooo far. Had he not had that secret, perhaps it could have been confronted many years earlier and not have destroyed our family. This is a secret ... there is no place for secrets in a marriage.
There were things I did as a young wife (I married at 21) which were not great ... but I was not given the opportunity in a loving way to become aware of what I did that he did not like ... and then to change. Had he come to me rather than run from me and deeper into his addiction, things could have been MUCH different. (btw - he was into his addiction b4 I met him ... but I didn't know it).
Privacy in a marriage should never trump the marriage. And privacy should never turn into secrecy.
***
Even after years and years of being married, spouses are still learning about and from each other ... you will not and cannot know everything immediately. Often, it's in the time it takes to live life that beauty takes root and grows.
84. Trevor D. said the following at 7:32 AM on May 7:
P&P (#69) and Lola (#75) bring up another little-respected aspect of this: the need for the spouse to keep his/her mouth shut in cases where confidences have been shared.
If a wife tells her husband about a situation, then he could possibly contribute something positive in advising her about how to respond, or by simply listening. However, his actually saying anything to the individuals concerned is quite another matter.
85. Marla said the following at 10:17 AM on May 7:
I make sure all my friends know that there should be no expectation that things they share with me do not end up being shared (in confidence) with my husband. That doesn't mean everything they share WILL be repeated to him...but if something weighs on my mind, I will probably share it with him. Our lives are shared, and I don't like to keep him out of things that are weighing on me. I also might need his advice, suggestions of what to say to my friend etc...
I also believe that journals that chronicle angry or spiteful things - even if said in haste and later retracted - should not be kept by a husband or wife. What if someone - one of your children - was to pick up this journal after your death and read these words? I'd rather write positive things and keep any stewing in my head and off of paper.
86. Kenya said the following at 12:05 PM on May 7:
Regarding Leah's response (#63)-
Not all women think the same way or possess the same "female mind." For those who have offered generalizations on behalf of my gender, forgive me if I humbly withdraw myself from consideration or comparison.
87. Margaret said the following at 12:26 PM on May 7:
It sounds to me like we've moved from discussing whether it is "right" for someone to read a journal to several examples of people who have prepared themselves for the journal to be read. I'm with the folks who think that a journal is a private place to work out thoughts; however, I hope that I will be able to be open enough to share my emotional thought process once I'm married that the journal will no longer be necessary, and my (mostly) childish and selfish musings in those volumes will be irrelevant.
For those of you who willingly shared your journals-- it seems like that was a personal sacrifice you made as a gift to your spouse, and I'm sure you prepared yourself with prayer before handing over those very personal words. That is very different than not being prepared to share and discuss what had been written and having that privacy taken from you with a shrug and "why is this such a big deal." Even if there is nothing "bad" written, it's still a situation that needs to be handled with delicacy and compassion, especially if you're not ready emotionally to handle being that completely bare before someone else. That's not to say that it can't happen at some point, or that reading a spouse's journal/diary can't be used as a catalyst to bring a husband and wife closer. But there is a time and place for everything, and walking into the room to find someone reading something you weren't quite ready to share is shocking enough without someone then say "just get over it."
88. Tami said the following at 1:28 PM on May 7:
Leah, I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree. :) I don't think (for example) that my friend's husband would have a "need" to know about, say, my UTI, or a prior incident of rape, or breast reduction surgery (not that any of those describe my issues, but you know what I mean).
Point for consideration: just because someone tells us something heavy in confidence, and it burdens us to hold on to it, do we have the "right" to share it with others? Even if it's our spouse?
Like I said, some things are best kept between women, and I think I have a reasonable expectation to assume that my personal boundary wouldn't be crossed (except if I had fair warning that my friend felt compelled to share these things with her husband).
Most of my married friends would not tell their spouses my "stuff". This is why it caught me off guard when one did. And I still feel it's different than if only she knew. *I* am not one with the husband.
...anyway. Agree to disagree. :)
Ame -- it was definitely a case of the wife not adequately letting the husband know it was a private matter. Which seems like it would have been obvious to me to begin with, but I guess not. BTW I don't fault the husband's friend at all; he was just showing concern and had no clue it was private.
89. BDB said the following at 1:40 PM on May 7:
Regarding the expectation to keep confidences, here's another wrinkle.
I know at least one, and perhaps more pastors (can't remember exactly) who stop people who want to "tell them something" and make they swear never to tell anyone else. But this is because they've run into some extreme situations: maybe someone has committed a crime, and wants to confess, burdening the pastor with that knowledge. Or, someone is having an affair, and their spouse attends the church.
Usually what they'll do is stop them and say something along the lines of, "If you're coming to tell me because you want healing, and you want God to cleanse you, yes I will walk through the process with you as your pastor, but if you've hurt someone else there are still consequences that you must face - I can't promise to never tell anyone."
Then the person can decide if they are really ready for healing and moving past the situation.
There was an incident where someone brought a business dispute to a pastor instead of going to court. It was a complex situation, so the pastor told the person he would ask a businessman in the church to review it. The pastor asked me. It was very messy. It made me uncomfortable enough that when I did my write-up, I didn't put my name on it. As it turns out, the pastor faxed it right to the guy verbatim. I'm sure it was hard for the guy to receive, he was clearly in the wrong. But he clearly needed someone to speak truth into his life. By bringing it to the church it was probably a lot more confidential than going to court. I don't know what happened, but the guy still attends that church. And I'm still burdened by the knowledge of what was going on.
But the guy was given a clear choice that if he wanted help, he needed to be willing to expand the circle of confidentiality.
90. Dawn said the following at 1:51 PM on May 7:
As far as journal reading goes, I hope that I will be close enough to my husband that he will be able to read my journal if he wants (should I ever marry). I also never want to be put in the place that if someone shares something with me that I feel could be harmful, etc. that I could not share it with my husband. I also know that I have been put in a place where something had been told to me that was very painful. I would never want to give someone a burden that they could not even share with their spouse should they *need* to. I do not think that everything someone tells a person necessarily *must* be told to their spouse.
A word of warning/caution here: each relationship will necessarily have its own dynamics. What works for one couple may not work for another. When I was dating my ex, he would get angry when I promised my friend I wouldn't tell something. We were not married, or even engaged for that matter. He also thought that he should be able to read my journals. I was naturally embarrassed because it would not have been appropriate for the stage of our relationship. I felt unnecessary guilt until someone I trusted told me that it wasn't necessary for my boyfriend to read my old journals. I write all this to say that I believe one should never insist on these privileges being given to him/her. They are just that - a privilege - one that must be worked out and agreed upon between the couple.
BTW - my parents have always been completely open with each other as far was what they told each other in regard to their conversations with others. I believe that their marriage has been much better for that.
91. Bethany M said the following at 4:53 PM on May 7:
The professor of a marriage course I was in once said "Love trumps honesty." What he meant by that was, knowing that a piece of information would hurt your spouse trumps the complete transparency and honesty that is ideal between spouses.
For example, it is necessary and right to share with your spouse that you've had some physical 'indescretions' in your past relationships. However, unless they demand the information, it would actually be hurtful to them to share any specific details. So taking the other person's feelings into account (without using it as an excuse to hide something they should know) does take priority over complete honesty at times.
92. sarah elizabeth said the following at 5:50 PM on May 7:
I have a journal on my computer that i keep. I also have it password protected. I dont journal frequently, but often when i do, its because emotions and frustrations and life is crowding me and i feel a need to escape. I feel a need to let everything out-even those i would never share with someone else. Do you ever get mad or frustrated and just want to be allowed to freak out and say things youd never normally say? now, when that happens-i actually have no real desire to say those things to anyone person. Often it may be discouraging or downright terrible to say. however, by writing it in a journal-I jget to blow up and then calm down so I can adequately tell someone what I should share with them.
Also, I have a hard time praying-i get distracted easily. If i journal my prayer it is much easier for me to keep on track. Therefore, often my journaling is a prayer to God. Would you say that a spouse needs to know everything you pray to God about? WHile you should be open,, I dont think they need to know every aspect of their spouses prayer. however, for someone to read my journal would be the same as If i could sit in the thrown room of God as they were praying.
Many of you are expressing a lack of understanding of gender differences and personality differences.
There are some people that need to internally process. Some people need to externally process. For one to demand the other process there way is a complete lack of consideration. As far as whether or not to keep the pages written, again for some people the process of doing something is not about the process-its about the end result. it is these people that would suggest to toss the written word. However, for other people-it is about the process much more than the end result. These people cannot see why you would destroy the process they went through. They are the ones whom it is beneficial to go back and see where theyve come from. foten if you can go back and read a journal, you may notice patterns in thinking or something that is continually an issue. It may clue you in to something you should deal with, but maybe would have never realized it.
93. Leah said the following at 9:43 PM on May 7:
Kenya,
it's still true though, that for a man to make a blanket statement about something that is common to many women, he is demonstrating a lack of knowledge of that area.
JT,
Oh, I'd readily agree that there are destructive secrets we should not keep. But you did not say that. You said that a woman who keeps secrets- not just destructive secrets- does not love her husband. That is very wrong.
94. Suzanne said the following at 12:39 AM on May 8:
Sometimes a friend will tell me something in confidence that is a real burden on me. It's hard to carry, and I don't always want to know it.
It might be a situation where she needs advice, or a sin she wants to confess, or just a hard time she's going through. Since I'm not married, I can't share this burden that I've now taken on with my spouse.
Why is it that when I marry, my friend can no longer trust that I'll share her burden like I have in the past without passing it around?
Normally, when I have a burden too big to bear, I share it with my mom. But my friend will not expect (nor is it fair to expect) that my mom knows *her* deep dark secrets. So I keep her secret to myself, even when I don't want to. I give it to the Lord.
I could, however, call up my mom (or my spouse) and say, "Someone's confided something to me that is really painful, and it hurts me to have to hold this in. Will you pray that I can help and support her?" I'm not giving any details, but now at least someone is interceding on my behalf, and perhaps the friend's too. I think this is a better way of carrying someone's troubles without betraying the confidence.
95. jpritch said the following at 2:47 PM on May 8:
i've been reading through this post & find the responses quite interesting. and i've got a question--especially for all the men who have responded.
first of all, i need to admit that as a woman, i am prone to monthly (ehem...) cycles of emotion. in a sense, i'm on an emotional roller coaster ALL THE TIME. my temper flares...i cry more often certain weeks than others...you get the picture. and unfortunately, IF i verbalize all of these frustrations & "my world is knocked off its axis" emotions to my husband, it would CERTAINLY be a burden to him--as even *I* am well aware that my statements, tempers, & emotions have NO SOUND BASIS.
which is exactly why i journal: to release those bottled-up feelings. and my chicken-scratch on the pages of my journals often reflects that roller-coaster of emotions...that i will admit i am sometimes embarassed to share with my husband (b/c there is no sound basis for them...other than hormones).
so to the men: i'm going to assume that if you are like my husband & my dad, & most men i know, you are pretty even keel. you do NOT have that monthly cycle of roller coaster-feelings. and as such, it is difficult to understand WHY women are so tempramental.
wouldn't you rather have your wife or fiance or girlfriend WRITE those emotions out in a journal so she can process them? and if they have no sound basis (i.e., are the result of hormones or other stressors), would you be offended if she didn't talk about EACH frustration with you?
just curious....
96. BDB said the following at 6:02 PM on May 8:
jpritch (#95) wrote:
>>wouldn't you rather have your wife or fiance or girlfriend WRITE those emotions out in a journal so she can process them? <<
Hmmm...I was a biology major for a while...maybe that's why I'm OK not reading the journal. Or at least reviewing the calendar before asking about what all the writing was about...
97. J. said the following at 7:07 PM on May 8:
Well said, Suzanne (#94).
98. Rachael said the following at 7:50 PM on May 8:
jpritch,
I'm not sure if this happens with everyone who is or has been more emotionally, but I think emotions can tone down over time.
I'm not so familiar with temper emotions, but sometimes tears pop onto my face on uninvited occasions, in recent months mainly at Sunday worship maybe 2-3 times or something. Embarrassing. I'm in my upper 20s.
Still, somehow I'm under the impression that my tears used to pop up more often in the past than they do now. Could be wrong, but I may have hardened to some degree, if it's at all any encouragement to you... just know that it's very well possible that by the time you get married your tear flowage may slow down.
Not necessarily, but maybe...
Anyway, anyway...
Emotions are at times an unwelcome part of life, aren't they? :)
99. Matt Beeman said the following at 8:22 AM on May 14:
I certainly think that the husband should be able to read it at some point, but considering it is a mechanism for venting, he should not have access to it immediately. I am assuming that if she has journaled for years that she has multiple books filled with notes, and if he's really interested, he should start way back. Reading today's journal when she is using it as a venting release will not be healthy for the long-term relationship.
100. Sheri said the following at 11:50 PM on Jun 16:
I agree with you to a point, Matt. While I am not married yet, I do keep a journal and have for several years. However, I have two. One journal is full of my letters to God. I don't really think that what I say to God is anybody's business. In fact, when people give me in depth descriptions of what they say to God, I get a little bit bothered. To me it's about like having to listen to someone else tell you about their sex life.
But I also keep another journal which is actually more or less a book of letters to my future husband about my life. One day I hope to give it to him. Has or does anyone else do this? I am curious to know.