Don't Be a Wimp: Episode #15
by
Motte Brown
on May 2, 2008 at 5:09 PM
 | ||
 |
Subscribe to our podcast, The Boundless Show, through iTunes now! You may also access the podcast through our RSS feed. |
|
Miley is the 15-year-old confessing Christian daughter of Billy Ray Cyrus, the confessing Christian country singer who's famous for his song "Achy Breaky Heart" and love of the mullet hairdo.
Anyway, we talk about this controversy to open this week's The Boundless Show. Among the perspectives we cover is something I blogged about months ago, the sexualization of our daughters. Now I know Billy Ray says he wasn't there during that portion of the shoot. But to me it sounds a little like Adam blaming Eve for the fall.
C'mon Billy Ray. Be a man and take responsibility for the sexualization of your little girl.
Roundtable -- 5:50
Is it possible that the reason so many 20-somethings have difficulty transitioning into adulthood -- from high school to college to career to family -- is because of helicopter parenting? Are our padded playgrounds and sanitized gels producing a bunch of mama's boys and cell-phone tethered girls? That's one theory put forth in the book Nation of Wimps from Psychology Today's former editor in chief Hara Marano. Lisa kicks off the discussion with the story of college drop out.
Culture -- 19:30
We're excited to have Plugged In's Bob Waliszewski back with us this week to talk about all the new entertainment releases, including Grand Theft Auto. No judgments here; just slight dispiritedness at the sight of dozens of 20- and 30-something men lined up around the store of the local gaming outlet. As for new movie releases, Bob gives us his perspective on Iron Man and Baby Mama, and an update on Expelled.
Hungry Years -- 31:00
Do nice guys really finish last? Not for those interested in wooing Kara Schwab. In this week's Hungry Years, Kara talks about her attraction to guys who know their way around a spreadsheet. And who finish what they start.
Inbox -- 35:53
This week Candice tackles a really sensitive issue: when to stick your nose into your friend's relationship when you see red flags all around. Candice clarifies the questioner's obligation and how she can do it in a way that preserves the friendship.
Lastly, we have some great new music to feature this week from The Museum. Be sure and check them out on Virb and leave a message about how much you enjoy their stuff. Ted already has.
1. J.T. had the following to say on May 2 at 6:30 PM:
My brother, best friend, and I went to an advanced screening of Ironman. In the scene with the two people in bed there was a collective groan in the theater. It was great. (The groaning, not the scene.)
2. DannieA had the following to say on May 2 at 7:07 PM:
I personally don't get the Miley Cyrus hoopla.
When I was 12, my mom and I took a mother/daughter picture where our shoulders are bare and it's nice photo shoot.
It's up in a frame in our house. You can see the back of Miley Cyrus and it's not a nude picture of her from what I saw.
I don't know...maybe i'm not getting the whole story either.
3. BDB had the following to say on May 2 at 7:08 PM:
On parents doing all the thinking for their kids...
I don't think that parents understand how seriousy this is damaging them. It's been good for my career, though.
In my case there was a time when I didn't work well on teams. I'd rather do my own work and not be responsible for anyone else's results. God did deal with me on this issue. I'm much better at leading teams now.
But there are so many people who seem completely unable to take ownership of a project and carry it through. Older executives - 20 years older than me - keep giving me projects to do because I can get things done.
As for Kara liking spreadsheets...yes, that is very rare.
Fun Fact: If you search for "Kara" on the Boundless web site, you find articles on what to do when you see red flags...
4. Jen had the following to say on May 2 at 9:02 PM:
We were just talking about the idea of parents/children; the technology etc; in my sociology class today!
I am really close to my mom. I call her about 2-3 times per week, and yes I agree that kids need to have autonomy. The fact that some parents call their kids' professors at 2 in the morning is ridiculous.
Also, I don't really think it's necessarily bad that boys have good relationships with their mother. I definitely think that boys should have fathers in their lives and it's a real shame when they aren't, but at the same time I think it's kind of sad that mothers are expected not to have a good relationship with their sons just because they're boys.
5. Saxon had the following to say on May 2 at 9:12 PM:
Another example of parents pimping out their daughters for the social marxist entertainment industry. This is especially disgusting if these people involved are "confessing Christians". I think their real god is mammon. Of course anyone (and many do in America) claim to be Christians but their character does not add up. If one is or profess to be a Christian but lives an unrighteous lifestyle than they are only tarnishing the image of the church and dragging the name of our Lord through the mud.
6. Adam T. had the following to say on May 3 at 4:56 AM:
I personally don't get the Miley Cyrus hoopla.
When I was 12, my mom and I took a mother/daughter picture where our shoulders are bare and it's nice photo shoot.
It's up in a frame in our house. You can see the back of Miley Cyrus and it's not a nude picture of her from what I saw.
I don't know...maybe i'm not getting the whole story either.
I thought the same thing, Dannie.
I'll tell you what, though: even before I had seen the picture, and I thought it was gonna be, like, full-on breastal nudity, I wasn't shocked, or even really that bothered. Which bothers me - because doesn't it go to show the extent to which I've internalized our awful culture? I dunno.
7. A.M.C. had the following to say on May 3 at 4:12 PM:
Regarding the issue of overprotective parents (WARNING-- LONG POST):
In retrospect, I now find my being a first-generation immigrant (or perhaps 1.5 G," at least according to Wikipedia) a disguised blessing. After all, being a rather introverted only child in the first place, I have always been quite individualistic, and having to go through the immigrant's experience (i.e. trying to become "more American") only strengthened that. While my parents had been quite protective of me during my childhood years, the fact that their English happens to be worse than mine meant that I was essentially on my own throughout my high school years. Thus, as much as my parents used to have trouble doing so, they were forced to set me free.
==> Ironically, that actually helped me in the long run. By the time I started college, I was already independent enough, and the transition to college life was much easier than I expected. So, the fact that my parents moved back after I started college (thus leaving me in the situation similar to international students, minus the fact that I've already obtained U.S. citizenship by this point) was no problem at all. Why? Simply because I've already gotten used to making major decisions on my own by this time. Sure, I'm still on good terms with my parents, but my interaction with my parents have since reduced to several long Emails per week and occasionally talking on Skype. (It's not that I don't love them anymore or that I'm unwilling to talk-- but rather that certain things cannot be explained as easily simply due to the lack of context when they're living in another country.) But as far as major decisions go, I made sure that my parents had little control over them (they're only informed of my plans). While it's true that their concerns would be occasionally prove to be valid, in most cases the risks I take would eventually pay off. So, over time, my parents have been able to respect my ability to be an adult and to make my own decisions, even if they strongly disagree.
* The only real challenge came only after I'm half-way through college, when I finally decided to stop being pre-med altogether, at least in terms of medical research or a clinical career, mostly due to perceived skill set mismatches and sensing a new calling. Needless to say, my parents were a bit surprised and concerned; "We didn't send you to the U.S. just to have you make $40-50k per year. How are you going to raise a family with that?" To get my way, I prayed extensively before visiting them that summer (this was back in 2007), and then forced the issue straight off the plane as I got home. The reasoning process took 4 days and 4 nights; seeing that even raising theological claims (e.g. "if this is really God's will, He will provide") were not enough to convince them despite that both of my parents are professing Christians, I decided to throw out an ultimatum: "If you still don't agree with me, fine. How about this: to prove that I can survive on my own without making as much as $40-50k, feel free to stop paying for my tuition. If it's really God's will, I'll be able to get through by working and studying part-time." Well, that was enough to get them to capitulate.
[Later, I've been able to find sources to prove that opportunities in my new career plans aren't as bleak as they expected. Thus, their main concern-- namely, "not wanting me and my future family to suffer from the lack of economic resources"-- ceased to be an issue, and I've since reconciled with my parents. Now I'm about to complete my junior year and feel more ready than ever to transition to the "next stage in life" after college.]
==> Then again, I must stress that I don't recommend what I've tried for every teenager or young adult who is trying to grow up by reducing the extent of parental influence on them. In my case, one pitfall that I've falling into in the process of intentionally trying to detach from my parents is turning the focus to myself (rather than God) and thus becoming workaholic. Indeed, while my tendency to be an overachiever has curtailed somewhat after my past 3 years of college, they aren't entirely gone yet. Also, I must admit that the tactics I've used on my parents last summer was outright cruel, and I needed to repent for that. Basically, my idea was to use physical endurance (4 days in a row was enough to tire them out), debating ability, newly-gained theological perspectives (thanks to my extensive participation in an evangelical on-campus Christian fellowship), and most important, the fact that I had proven myself to be a responsible and trustworthy individual over my teenage years, to my advantage.
[Translation: I knew that my parents couldn't bear the possibility of me cutting off all sources of connection with them entirely to pursue my plans-- thus, the brinkmanship tactic was surprisingly effective. For those of you who might accuse me of being manipulative, I do plead guilty-- in fact, I did put extensive effort into repairing the relationship with my parents afterwards. And in my own defense, I was literally willing to follow up on my promise had my parents accepted the dare to allow me to try financing for my own college education.]
----------------------------------------
==> Bottom line: My advice for young adults who are trying to transition into adulthood (but finding their parents getting in the way at the same time) is simply this.
(1) Don't make my mistake of trying to ignore your parents and do everything on your own when they disagree with your decisions. Instead, pray boldly, and remember that you're supposed to trust God for every single aspect of your life, with no expections.
(2) At the same time, check your intentions! Ask yourselves honestly: "Am I doing this just for the sake of being rebellious, or am I choosing to disagree with my parents for my own good?" To be safe, also check with an older person in your Christian community for a second opinion when doing this. (Your other friends who are also in college might not be reliable source, as they're most likely in a similar situation and would be more likely to automatically stand on your side against your parents even if that's ultimately bad for you!)
(3) If you're citing Scripture, don't even consider quoting Luke 14:26 and Matthew 10:37 out loud (and out of context) in the face of your parents. After all, one of the worsts thing a Christian can do is to abuse "Christian" concepts against another believer-- and when the target consists of your parents, you might be breaking one of the Ten Commandments by doing so! Keep in mind that the second half of Luke 14:26 (the "own life" part) and Luke 14:27 and Matthew 10:38 (the "own cross" part) must be included for the correct context. [Translation: again, same as #2 above-- are you denying your parents just for the sake for denying them, or can you honestly say that your parents are getting in the way in your walk with Christ? Remember, you have to deny yourself in the process, too.]
8. Ryan B. had the following to say on May 3 at 4:36 PM:
I haven't followed the Cyrus story that closely, but I did hear a little on the news. My understanding is that the photo shoot as a whole was not sexual or provocative - until the parents had to leave shortly before it was scheduled to end. It was only while they were gone that the photographer changed the nature of shoot - hence the father's allegation that his daughter was taken advantage of in his absence. If this is true, you could still make a case that the parents were irresponsible given the photographer's reputation, but this would definitely not qualify as trying to exploit their daughter's sexuality for profit. Again, I could be wrong about these details, and please correct me if I am. However, sometimes it seems like we rush to attack our brothers and sisters in Christ the moment we see them in a potentially shameful situation (throwing them to the wolves to prove they don't represent us). I imagine Mr. Cyrus feels great shame for failing to protect his daughter from some pretty awful people at Vanity Fair.
9. Adam had the following to say on May 3 at 7:36 PM:
Saxon,
I really don't think your comment was fair. How do you know that she doesn't "live" it? There are many public figures who were Christians and committed public sin. Consider the example of Samson in the Old Testament. Think of all of the sinful things he did. And yet, what is he doing there in the hall of faith in Hebrews 11:32? Consider the sin of David who ended up committing adultery and murder. Yet he was called a man after God's own heart.
The key in all of these instances was repentance. That is what I am going to be looking for in Miley. Will she repent, or will she keep going down this dangerious road? This girl may grow up to be a real light in this dark area of the music industry, and this incident will just be one little blip on the radar screen. The real issue is whether or not this is going to be one isolated incedent, or whether this will be a continuing problem.
Secondly, I have no idea where you are getting this idea that an entertainment industry, in and of itself, is socialist and marxist. Socialism and Marxism would be very opposed to the free trade of music, because there is no private property in marxism, and, to a certain extent, in socialism as well. I will grant that the music buisness is certainly not friendly to our Christian faith, but, then again, neither is my area, Old Testament and Semitic Studies as it is made up mostly of naturalists, atheists, and deconstructionists. Certainly, if one is going to enter either of these fields, one has to be aware of this.
This is where I think there may be a problem. You do have to be grounded in the faith before you enter these areas, and have family, friends, and church who are willing to support you, and to hold you accountable. My only concern is that Miley was not that well grounded before she went into this hostile environment. I hope that, if her parents think that this is the case, they will put her carrier on hold, until she has the spiritual maturity to handle this situation.
God Bless,
Adam
10. BDB had the following to say on May 3 at 11:10 PM:
Regarding the "Red Flags" issue, let me say that the person who wrote in is in a very difficult situation.
I was at a wedding once...I'll leave out any details...when I overheard the group talking to his buddies. He said, "Nothing's going to change..."
I remember thinking, 'Hmmm...that doesn't sound right.' The wedding was in a few hours, and since they lived in another state, I hadn't seen them interact much.
They were divorced within two years. Even though I don't know the details, I know that whatever happened was extremely messy. The bride - who I knew - remains single 10 years later.
Do I wish I'd said something? I mostly wish I'd paid more attention earlier and asked questions earlier. At the same time, I've seen other situations where people did speak to the bride, and the bride responded by severing contact with the person who said something. So it can be a no-win situation.
One caveat: I know a couple of parents who struggled with saying something to their child. After a lot of time spent in prayer and fasting, the broached the subject, and their child was relieved to have their instincts confirmed.
What if it happens again? I'd speak up. But I'm older and more confident now - I've gotten to the point where I don't tolerate a person treating another with disrespect. I'd rather lose the friendship than wonder if I should have said something.
11. Rachael had the following to say on May 4 at 9:33 AM:
Good for you BDB. That's too bad you heard signs right before the wedding.
I think the whole process of dating is extremely risky, especially if you start dating someone you don't really know and can't observe the person in natural circles.
Perhaps it's best to have someone else to kind-of 'help' with the mind even if one 'thinks' they have their head on straight. Emotions can be a subtle trap.
I know I have a mind (albeit not very smart with many academic topics) but I also have emotions. What I mean by suggesting to have someone "help with the mind" is that it might be good to be open about things and tell someone else what's going on so that you can consider their outside perspective, even if you THINK you have it all under control...it could be good to have an outsider (but close friend or relative) to keep things in check.
12. BDB had the following to say on May 4 at 3:13 PM:
Sorry for the typo - it should have said "groom" talking with his buddies.
13. EJV had the following to say on May 4 at 9:11 PM:
Personally, I don't see what the big deal is as far as the half naked picture of Miley goes. It's just her back! We'd see a lot more of her if she was in a bikini!
However, I was very creeped out by the pictures of her with her body draped over her dad. They don't look like father and daughter at all! The picture itself is very beautiful, but in poor taste. Posing like that stops being ok, in my opinion, right at about age 8.
14. obewan had the following to say on May 5 at 6:39 AM:
I really think we need to back off and look at the real "facts" before we make any comments on this one. The news article I read on this story claimed she was in a photo "shoot" with a girlfriend. She wanted some "artsy" photos and had no intention of having them published. None of them were "nude" shots. One shot was a topless shot of a bare back, the front did not show, it was from the waist up, and a silk sheet was draped around her neck. It was very "artsy" - nothing provocative about a bare back as far as I am concerned. I mean some people have problems with lust when people are fully clothed even. Don't get me wrong, I do not get any special enjoyment looking at bare backed 15 yr olds, but some consideration should be given to her situation and intent before we criticize her.
15. P&P had the following to say on May 5 at 10:30 AM:
1. Question to Candice: Do you advocate the idea that boys are given more freedoms than girls? It sure sounded that way. Other than that, I thought it was a good segment and something that I see all too much with my friends who are parents, some of whom would rather take a toddler to a four star restaurant than hire a sitter!
I hate to think about what will happen when this kid wants to walk to the corner store when he's 15.
2. I liked the red flags discussion as well. I've been in the situation where I knew the marriage wouldn't last but I chose to stay silent because I knew the bride would likely break off contact, as BDB in post #10 mentioned.
I don't know if there is any easy way to put this, but I really liked Lisa's line about "not being someone's story." It's a diplomatic way of explaining your feelings, however I also think you have to express the idea that you will support them without judgement if they continue to persue their current path.
16. Nicole had the following to say on May 5 at 3:59 PM:
This is a long post, but I needed explanation.
I was in the situation where I knew a marriage wouldn't work, but I also knew the bride would mostly like break of contact. I had already said things from the beginning of their relationship about him being trouble and had been cut out of a large part of her life already. I was her best friend through-out high school.
The hardest decision to make was whether I would be her bridesmaid or not. I told her then that I thought marrying him was a bad idea, but that I loved her and would be in the wedding if she still wanted me to be. She did. It was a strained friendship between us.
By the time the wedding came along I think she already wished she had listened to me. When I offered she almost took my car and left leaving me to explain to everyone on the day of the wedding. But she chose not too.
I told her that no matter what I would be there for her (let me add that he was abusive along with other things) and that I would pray that their marriage would work. We didn't talk for 18 months while they were married. She moved to a different town. Our friendship basically ended.
Three days after he left her she called me. The only other people who knew were her parents. There is a lot still to work through. And currently I'm trying to figure out if I can confront her about her drinking problem or if it will ruin the friendship and any chance I have of helping her, but I was the person she turned to when she needed it most.
They are divorced now. She's on a really bad path from the devastation that he left her. I know that I couldn't live with myself if I hadn't said anything to her. Even though she ignored me and ended the friendship at the time. You can't be someone's conscience, but you can't let your best friend ignore her conscience without saying something.
17. BDB had the following to say on May 5 at 7:42 PM:
Nicole (#16) wrote (a bunch)
Oh - that makes more sense now - the drinking part.
Ok-the fact that she called you means she admitted you were right, so my instict would be to not rub her nose into it.
You might want to go join Al-Anon, they are very good at this and figuring out how - and when - to do the intervention thing. The fact that she already tacitly admitted your observations were correct gives you some leverage, but my guess is that things are still quite delicate and raw.
The one time I did speak up, the person never did speak to me again. But they did go speak to one of my close friends who had a much better relationship - one day they were in a room together and all the sudden all these questions came out. I had my one friend's permission before sharing information with the other friend. But that marriage, 15 years later, appears to be still together. In that case the bride's assumptions about how her husband would "change" were unrealistic. She realized this within the first few months. But the guy was just a goof-off, he wasn't dangerous, and he was always very respectful. They ended up moving out of state - away from her parents and close to his. I think that was a very wise decision - his parents were much, much better equipped to provide some guidance and mentoring (his dad was a successful pastor).
But she never spoke to me again, and even one of her bridesmaids (a mutual friend) complained to me, "Why am I in a wedding with someone who isn't talking to me?"
18. kaj had the following to say on May 5 at 11:44 PM:
Annie Leibovitz was the photographer for the now-infamous Vanity Fair shoot.
It seems that having Ms. Leibovitz in charge of the photo shoot was just playing with fire to begin with.
Her portfolio of subject matter is notorious for material that often clashes with the Christian values embraced by the Boundless/FOTF community, let alone Vanity Fair magazine.
(Does anyone remember the controversy over the naked-and-pregnant Demi Moore cover a few years ago? Ms. Leibovitz was responsible for that, too.)
19. Nicole had the following to say on May 6 at 1:46 PM:
BDB #17 --
I haven't ever rubbed it in her nose. I think her brother has a couple times.
I may do that about joining AA. I considered talking to her parents but I think that would completely alienate me. She doesn't and hasn't ever listened to people well. She's stubborn. It's why I can be good for her -- my natural instinct it to fight everything anyone else tells me to do. Through a lot of prayer and stuff I've learned that's the wrong way to handle things, but somehow she hasn't.
It's hard about not speaking to her, it hurt me a lot. We were best friends for years. It would be different in some circumstances -- like I just think he's not right for her. In this situation I knew he was abusive and I knew the only reason he even went to church was because he had "changed" for her -- only God can change peoples hearts, not a pretty girl. In this situation I'm glad I spoke up, but it may not always be the answer.
20. BDB had the following to say on May 7 at 12:51 AM:
Nicole (#19) wrote:
>>I may do that about joining AA.<<
Actually, Al-Anon is for family/friends of the alcoholic. It's not the same as AA, which is for the person themselves. Al-Anon helps people realize that certain manipulative behaviors are common to all alcoholics, and upon recognizing the patterns, it makes it much easier to resist the manipulation.
21. Heather Ashley had the following to say on May 9 at 2:54 AM:
I think it's interesting to note that people seemed most concerned with the fact that her parents left the photo shoot (of whatever types) early and then this happened.
While it is a father's job to protect his daughter, miley is 15 or 16 years old is she not? If he (professed Christian) has not raised his daughter with standards of self respect and modesty especially in light of her fame then there is a bigger issue at light.
While it may not have been a 'full nude' picture she (fully capable of speaking or so I believe) could have said no. Could have used her cell phone (I'm sure she has one) to call her father and ask him to resolve it if the photographer was persistent.
She obviously did not mind baring some skin as soon as her parents left. If she's not willing to take a bigger stand and say no then maybe until she's 18 her dad should stay with her until the end of every photo shoot. His little girl is a powerhouse of a multimillion name, I am sure she is not incapable of saying no or dialing her parents to help her out of an uncomfortable situation.
Seems to me that Miley didn't mind the baring of her skin a little bit at all, rather the bad publicity it brought about, she was then content to let Daddy handle it.