Wives: Homemakers? Husbands: Breadwinners?
by
Ted Slater
on Apr 10, 2008 at 2:07 PM
Gender roles. Are men and women different? And if we're different, might we tend to have different roles in marriage? Do men tend to take on the role of provider, and women tend to take on the role of nurturer? If so, is this because God designed us to be this way?
In a comment left on our blog yesterday, Jennie explains how Scripture challenges us when it comes to gender roles:
Why are people so offended at this? It's biblical that women should be primary homemakers, helpers to their husbands, and caretakers to their children. It's biblical that men should be primary breadwinners. Read Genesis 3 (and the rest of the Bible).
For men: 1 Timothy 5:8 "But if anyone does not provide for his own, and especially for those of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever."
For women: Titus 2:3-5 "... the older women likewise, that they be reverent in behavior, not slanderers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things - that they admonish the young women to love their husbands, to love their children, to be discreet, chaste, homemakers, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God may not be blasphemed."
I don't know what it's like in the States, but in Canada, undergrad students finish with an average of $20,000 debt. Paying that back at 7-10% interest per annum and it adds up pretty quickly. Since a woman's main responsibility in marriage is in the home, obviously she should be pretty careful about racking up that kind of debt (and often more).
That being said, if you can take care of that primary responsibility and also find creative ways to pursue a career (whether that's part time, work from home, even full time out of the home at some point), I don't think there's a problem with that. Nor do I believe it's contrary to Scripture IF you've got your priorities right. Although I'd hope you wouldn't be working full time from the month your child was born - even the secular world recognizes that's not good.
Obviously Ted's not advocating that women don't get educated. He's just suggesting that we women make informed decisions with a biblical perspective on the long-term that won't force us to compromise our biblical responsibilities, and that men take their responsibility as providers seriously.
And if we women are prone to bristling at the idea that we might just have to make some tough decisions about our education or our careers, perhaps the problem's with us. If we're upset about the possibility that we might just have a responsibility to our families that might just mean that we actually live our lives selflessly on occasion, and not exactly as we might want, maybe we need to spend more time studying the Word and the humility and love Christ demonstrated to us, that we're supposed to be mirroring.
I know I'm sometimes frustrated because I know that marrying (which I'm doing in 3 weeks) and having children (which Lord-willing will happen within a few years), will mean that I can't do exactly what I want. If I had it my own selfish way, I wouldn't stay home with the kids. I'd make sure I was educated and able to pursue my career as much as my little wretched heart desires. But it's good to remember that selfishness, no matter what noble guise we might hide it under, is NOT a Christian virtue.
Isn't the Christian life all about denying self? Isn't that what it means to follow Christ? Aren't we supposed to be putting off that old nature that only wants to look out for Number 1?
It doesn't necessarily mean that we give everything up - obviously it is important to use the gifts the Lord gives us, and to pursue opportunities he opens up - but there will be times when we have to make tough decisions about giving some things up that we'd really, really like.
1. Carolyn had the following to say on Apr 10 at 2:26 PM:
Really, really well said. Thank you for your reminder of how Christ calls all of us out of our selfishness to a better way; and for graciously pointing out that as godly women we need to examine these issues with careful thought and study of the word.
2. Sarah22 had the following to say on Apr 10 at 2:34 PM:
All I have to say is: AMEN!
3. jpritch had the following to say on Apr 10 at 3:06 PM:
wow. well said. and i'm saddened to admit that this hits WAY to close to home for me.
i've been married 9 months. before i got married, i'd planned on going to school. in fact, i'd planned on pursuing higher education from the time i blew out my 7th birthday candles. and i really, honetly felt that God blessed my pursuits.
but in the last 9 months, my heart has taken a 180-degree turn that has surprised even me. i find myself WANTING to provide a clean, comfortable home for my husband (which as of right now, is 360 miles away from where i currently am pursuing that higher education i'd dreamed about). i find myself WANTING to stay home with our yet-unbirthed children. and i find myself regretting this decision that i've dreamed about for so long.
maybe i was ignorant to think that i'd love the career i'd dreamed about for 14 years. maybe i attributed these "once-in-a-lifetime" opportunties to God's will, instead of the secular culture they actually came from. and maybe it is my own fault that i'm sitting on a pile of graduate school debt with more zeros than i care to recognize.
but the truth is that i didn't expect my heart to change so fast. i didn't expect to want to be a "Proverbs 31 wife" so badly...and i certainly didn't expect to be married this soon.
so yes. i'm finally recognizing that the aches of my female heart ARE drawing me to be with my husband...to run our household...and to be there with my children. and i've come to realize that my family will ALWAYS come first.
...let's just hope the loan officers understand that.
wishful thinking.
4. alex had the following to say on Apr 10 at 3:11 PM:
I disagree that the idea that a woman needs to stay home to be valuable to her family. While I think it is natural for a woman to be very attached to her children and I agree that she should prepare to be able to stay home with them, God willing, I don't think it's a Biblical mandate. Primarily because of the context of this scripture, a society in which women were property and the fact that Christians were under fierce scrutiny. They was no room for accusations in their society, because they were under constant threat of death from persecution, as is the case in some countries today. Like I said, I would encourage women to stay home while their children are young but I don't think these verses are a Biblical reason for a double standard.
First off, you at Boundless have frequently covered the topic of absent fathers. I have to tell you, that the harsh fact is that absent father = absent mother. My father failed to do his part in the TEAM job of raising chldren and as a result my mother, who worked very hard, simply could not be both of them. She was often overstressed and undercared for herself. It affected all of us kids. To say that a woman should be forced into the home is a power play on the part of men to keep women dependent (indeed, this is included in some people's 'doctrine'). This is not safe for anyone, and it cheats a woman out of being a healthy rounded adult with connections in business and a life outside of her home, which I think every woman needs even if she wants to be home with her kids. If a man is constantly gone earning all the money for his family it puts him in a 'control relationship with his wife (read: not LOVING) and children. It also creates an absent father. I think we all know that men as well as women can be absent in mind as well as body, which in my experience are the consequences of a one-income household where the woman feels she doesn't have the right to support herself.
5. Meg had the following to say on Apr 10 at 3:14 PM:
Thank you!!
6. alex had the following to say on Apr 10 at 3:16 PM:
I forgot to add that I would challenge anyone to look up the net worth (if a dollar price can be put on it) of a stay at home mom. Runs in the neighborhood of 50 to 100k per year, the work that she does for her family. It saves people a lot of money. A man who works should be giving his wife the same honor and credit he wants if she does that for him, because she gets none of the career benefits or freedom he does but still helps PROVIDE for her family (read Proverbs 31 a couple of times) in a huge way. Not to mention for the emotional well being of the kids.
7. Laura had the following to say on Apr 10 at 3:16 PM:
I agree that people should make prudent financial choices, but this article never says women shouldn't buy a 20-30K car. Why education? Why shouldn't people invest in education? A mother has a responsibility to first look after family. Christianity is not protected from the troubles of the world such as divorce, disease, death, disability, or recession. Sometimes a mother has to provide, and with an education there a greater chance she can. I pursued an advanced degree with some loans, my return is looking pretty rosie with a well paying and fulfilling job. When I did my degree I didn't have a boyfriend or a potential husband. Even though my circumstances have changed, I still wouldn't give up my degrees.
8. Christina (in green) had the following to say on Apr 10 at 3:28 PM:
And if we women are prone to bristling at the idea that we might just have to make some tough decisions about our education or our careers, perhaps the problem's with us. If we're upset about the possibility that we might just have a responsibility to our families that might just mean that we actually live our lives selflessly on occasion, and not exactly as we might want, maybe we need to spend more time studying the Word and the humility and love Christ demonstrated to us, that we're supposed to be mirroring.
That was by far my favorite part =)
9. Jim H had the following to say on Apr 10 at 3:31 PM:
First, thanks very much to Jennie for a wonderful exposition on this topic.
Thanks also to Alex for the great summary of the un-Christian world view.
Your statement quoted below this paragraph is terribly flawed. Every Christian mom with a degree and former career that I know who has decided to stay at home and raise their children has found that MUCH more fulfilling than the career route. And just because you stay at home does NOT mean you are abandoning relationships with other adults and "cheating" yourself. There are relationships with other stay at home moms, getting involved with ministries at church and/or charities, friendships with neighbors, etc. You need to spend more time in the Bible rather than buying into the "wisdom" of the world.
---Quote from Alex------
"This is not safe for anyone, and it cheats a woman out of being a healthy rounded adult with connections in business and a life outside of her home, which I think every woman needs even if she wants to be home with her kids."
10. Jethro had the following to say on Apr 10 at 4:05 PM:
What if the wife doesn't want to be a stay at home mum & homemaker?
Given that it is apparently the right thing to do, is she doing something wrong if she chooses a different path and returns to full time work?
11. Rachael had the following to say on Apr 10 at 4:12 PM:
Not sure if I've ever articulated my opinions on all this SAHM mom stuff that's all over the place...well here's my thoughts:
Well, I don't take issue with the 'wanting' aspects of the stay-at-home-hood, or semi-stay-at-home-hood life, as I'd warmly welcome either (especially the whole-stay-at-homehood approach, and possibly teach a bit as the kids age [to be discussed w/ future husband later, if he exists]). I think I'd want to be a somewhat active (semi) stay at home mom (like get together with other moms and kids, volunteer/serve in ways that would affect non-family members, etc.) though, if possible.
And I have a Master's degree with no debt. It can be done. A Master's is often needed for lots of jobs. I don't get paid a lot, but I'm okay and the flexible hours are awesome.
I don't think women who choose to have full-time careers when their kids are a bit older should be chastised. And even if their kids are very young and they choose to put them in daycare, let that be between them, God, and their husbands.
12. Claire had the following to say on Apr 10 at 4:15 PM:
I think calling Alex's post an "un-Christian worldview" and thanking him for it is a little harsh. I saw it as an explanation of the other side for women who do not have a husband helping out. I agree with you Jim H that women would get more fulfillment in taking care of their families at home, (at least I believe this one will) but working and taking care of your kids cause dad skipped out is taking care of your family too. I'm not married and I work, and I know that I would much rather be married and eventually have children and take care of them. A career, while it's fulfilling and enjoyable and I do feel a sense of satisfaction, can't possibly compare to what it must be like to care for a family. Cause seriously, there are days at my job where I think "There has GOT to be more than this." And believe me, my job is not terrible.
13. Phillip had the following to say on Apr 10 at 4:22 PM:
Alex,
Just because a husband has the 'casting vote' in the quorum-of-two that is biblical marriage doesn't mean the relationship is unloving. This attitude owes more to worldly post-modernism than it does to the bible - don't confuse the two.
To give an example of an inequal yet loving relationship, God has authority over us, yet He loves us intensely and we can love Him without being His equals in authority or power. We aren't perfect like him, granted, but imperfect isn't the same as unloving either.
14. DannieA had the following to say on Apr 10 at 5:20 PM:
Thanks to Jim H. for letting us realize that even Christian people can act unchristian especially in a blog setting...I find your analysis of the comment alex wrote to be horrifically snobby.
Disagree with Alex...but goodness gracious, don't accuse of being un-christian without knowing that person.
I think it's great to be a SAHM...I think it's great to come to a consensus with your spouse so both can work maybe part-time or from the home while the other is home so the kids don't have to grow up in daycare. That being said...let's not be pious one way or the other.
I've met some great SAHM and ones that I admire and would hope to keep in touch with if I had kids relatively in the future...I've also met some snooty and snobbish ones that look like they came out of a catalog and are SAHM for fashion sake and they are not the ones I admire.
I've also met couples that work different shifts in the day and so it allows for one parent to always be in the house to take care of the kids while the other one is working.
Everyone's situation is different...let's keep that in mind
15. Maria had the following to say on Apr 10 at 5:26 PM:
I pose a question. If a woman does not wish to be a SAHM after she bears children, should she be condemned and frowned upon by others, for making that decision? Should she be ridiculed by others becasue she has neglected her Biblical duty to care for her children by staying home? If so, why?
16. Laurie had the following to say on Apr 10 at 6:01 PM:
This post is such an encouragement to me. I am currently attending college and surrounded by ideas that go against the Bible, and they sink into my mind and I see myself starting to see the world's ideas as "normal" and the Bible as odd or irrelevant. I know what the Bible says is right but it goes against everything I hear. When I do hear the truth of the Bible I question it in my heart...which is really bad. I know that when I am married I will want to stay at home and care for my husband and kids. It seems so right and natural. I don't want to spend all my energy on a career and then give my family the energy I have leftover to take care of them and help them. However, I'm surrounded by women who are returning to college because they didn't like being "just" a housewife, and they tell me that life ends when you have kids. It's very confusing to me...Even though I know what's right, the world influences me more than I want to admit. Posts like these really encourage me!!
17. Melissa had the following to say on Apr 10 at 6:02 PM:
To be perfectly honest, while debt under any circumstance is unfavorable, I believe that my education is of great value and there is no way that I would ever not pursue my degree! Although debt did come into consideration when choosing my university, it was not of highest priority. Many of the married couples I know met in university and having a higher education (I believe) improves the lives of our children, no matter how far in the future they may be. While higher education should not be pursued at any cost, education is worth a high price. After all, the knowledge accumulated while in university is used reguardless of employment position. I also believe that many women, in studying, look towards future motherhood and family roles, and take these under consideration in choosing a major. I know that I took not only my desire for motherhood under consideration, but also my desire to have a ministry. I know that my degree will allow me to come in contact with and change the lives of countless people that I would never have met if I didn't have my degree. Don't get me wrong, I believe the primary role of married women is in the home and raising children, but we are also called to make the name of Jesus Christ known. Finally, I don't think the problem of the male to female ratio lies in too many women attending unversity, but too few men. We seem to be overlooking this.
18. Amir Larijani had the following to say on Apr 10 at 7:14 PM:
Jennie: That was by far the best response on the subject. I have focused mostly on the practical, economic side. You, however, have provided the Christian case for it.
At the end of the day, irrespective of where a person stands, the bottom line is that in the Christian life, it is not about what we want.
That's not to say that God doesn't call some women to full-time careers. If that is the case, then fine.
I would, however, suggest that--considering the economic disasters that two-income families are facing compared to single-income families--it is fair to reassess the two-income model.
Against both the economic and the Biblical backdrops, I would submit that there is a case against the two-income model as a general rule.
19. a sassy sister had the following to say on Apr 10 at 7:46 PM:
There is a difference between roles and identities. The reason why this post could possibly be a problem for some is because some people take a Biblical role and turn into their identity as a person. As a result, when circumstances shake or eliminate the existence of such roles, then their identity is threatened.
Let's be honest here. Marriages, which are not exempt from the trials of life, will go through all sorts of changes. Is this post implying that because a woman's responsibility is in the home, then the husband must DO WHATEVER IT TAKES to ensure that she never steps foot outside the home to work? Is this post implying that a man is less than one because he doesn't make more money than his wife, who may have a higher salary?
Since you believe that women have a responsibility in the home and that men should be the breadwinners, then does that absolve the men the responsiblity of parenting, since his hours will be spent working instead of at home with the children? If a woman is running the home and taking care of the children, does that absolve her of any responsibility to know what is going on with the finances of the home and to know about the work of her husband?
I understand wanting to inform people about the potential liabilities and costs of their choices. But this type of thoughtful consideration should be undertaken by both men and women. I also believe that there is a difference between taking our responsibilities seriously and making one way of fulfilling those responsibilities the ultimate standard for everyone else.
Btw, there is a difference between obeying the letter of the law and obeying the letter and spirit of the law . There are lots of marriage and families that fulfill these roles to the letter on paper, but when it comes to the attitude and the motive behind such roles, it's based on fear, power trips, and blind obedience to tradition without understanding of the principle behind it.
Maybe I'm crazy, but I want to be married to someone who's being a provider not out of duty, but because he loves God and wants to obey His commands the way that God has instructed him to, not because everyone else says he should.
20. alex had the following to say on Apr 10 at 8:02 PM:
Jim H, I think you make my point when you say "Every Christian mom with a degree and a former career..."
These women are accomplished people. They know that they can support themselves and their kids if something were to happen. From your statement it seems that they made the choice to stay home rather than being forced to do it. They know how to network and make a living. These are the skills I was speaking of in my quote about the safety of a woman and her children.
21. Laura Grace had the following to say on Apr 10 at 8:42 PM:
I heard something on NPR recently that relates to Jim H and Alex's comments. I was so flabbergasted I almost had to pull my car off the side of the road.
The author of the recently-released book "The Ten-Year Nap" talks about how otherwise intelligent, ambitious women basically throw away ten years of their lives raising children, giving up their identity and sense of self-worth in the process. That has to be some of the most insulting language I've ever heard to describe motherhood -- to say that motherhood is a waste of women's intelligence? How incredibly demeaning!
Alex, while I don't condone Jim H's tone, it does seem to me that you have bought into the world's idea that motherhood is secondary to a career outside the home, and that educated women who stay at home with their children are must somehow be coerced into doing so.
But why would that be true? Why would the ministry of shaping lives and teaching little people to love God, see their sin, and flee to Christ be any less important than an outside job? There is great joy and freedom to be found in understanding and embracing the way God created us as men and women -- similar in so many ways (in our sinfulness, in our salvation, in our need for Christ) and different in so many others.
Lord willing, someday I will have a beautiful ministry of caring for a husband and nurturing children. Why would anyone need to "force" me to raise my own children? Why would I need to be compelled to do something that is part of my design?
22. R had the following to say on Apr 10 at 10:12 PM:
Excellent post. Glad to see this kind of biblical view being expressed. There is just so much worldliness being passed on and allowed into the church. It is so unfortunate, as many Christian guys are looking for this kind of Christian women and having trouble finding them.
23. Becks had the following to say on Apr 10 at 10:17 PM:
Very wise Alex! I'm all with you.
I feel that some people on this blog are mixing up what they call a biblical perspective with pharisee reality-loss.
I would very much like to meet the highly educated stay-at-home mums who find that so much more fulfilling than their jobs. Good for them - if it is true.
How come that I see a lot of depressed housewives, failed marriages, unloving and distant families, unhealthy lifestyles and tv watching/ computer playing kids - precisely in those households where the mum stays at home or invests minimally in her career?
How come I see the opposite in the families where both husband and wife have a career?
Must be that I am the only one to have a very biased sample..
An alternative reason would be that 'mum at home' very often translates into: dad not at home. If only for money reasons.
24. Jessica had the following to say on Apr 10 at 11:26 PM:
Hi
I have to say that this was an interesting article. I have to agree with the author. Though yesterday or a couple of days ago, I would have answered with a notoriously "feminist" viewpoint, coming from me, things have suddenly changed for me. I'm not married yet, but even as I sit here, contemplating my future- what kind of career I want to pursue...no other "career" sounds more fulfilling than staying at home and being a good wife to my husband and a good mother to my children. I'm not married yet, don't even have a boyfriend, but yet I'm starting to change my viewpoints. God's had to do a LOT to get me to this point in my life. Six years ago, I would have said - "no WAY! I'm never going to get married and give up my life for my husband and children- no WAY!" Now, here I am, and there's nothing else I'd like better in the world. Marriage is a wonderful thing. I believe that God knows who will marry and who won't-those who don't may not understand the reasons why- maybe it was completely out of their hands, but GOD KNOWS. That's the important thing....As for Alex's comments, I'm sorry, but I'd have to disagree. What the Bible says is for ALL people, not just for a society where women were "property." It almost sounds like you're defending the feminist viewpoint, when I think you were really trying to make a point of defending women of today- preventing us from getting overridden by "chauvinistic" men. Coming from a "reformed", feministic person, as myself, several years or even days ago I would have agreed with you, but unfortunately, God has shown me His light in a lot of ways regarding the correct role of women in society. I am glad for this blog in which we can express ourselves. It is interesting to find out what other people's viewpoints are like- even enlightening in a lot of ways.
25. Laura2 had the following to say on Apr 10 at 11:38 PM:
Alex (#4), have you ever had to make the decision to leave your eight-week-old child in a day care centre from 7am to 5pm? Neither have I, but I've cared for the child and I've seen how distraught the parents (in this case, mother) was on leaving and arriving, and how unsettled the child was. Or have you had to speak to your child's carer at the centre because of behavioural issues you're experiencing, never thinking it's because the child is in care from 6am to 6pm and misses home? Neither have I, but I've cared for such children.
I appreciate the fact that not every home is ideal, and some single parents need to put their children in care so they can work just to provide for the family. But if possible, a parent - and a mother, especially - should be at home with her children, loving them and raising them and training them up for the future.
26. Leah had the following to say on Apr 11 at 1:10 AM:
It's a good comment (the one by Jennie). But it's not unequivocal. In Australia for instance, you are not obliged to pay back your student debt until you begin earning a certain amount. So in other words, if you are not earning that amount, you are never obliged to pay anything back to the government. That's why I wish I'd just put all my fees on HECS (Higher Education Contribution Scheme- the scheme in which the gov pays for your education until you're finished and in the workplace, when you pay it back) rather than have my parents pay it.
If you pay up-front, you get a 20% discount. So my parents paid up front so that I could pay them back with the 20% discount. What I didn't know was that had I just had it all paid for by the gov thru HECS, I would never have to pay it back unless I was earning a certain amount. As I currently stand, I have a full debt I have to pay back to my parents.
So in Australia a woman can easily rack up as much student debt as she wants (only thru HECS- not thru private loans etc) and never have to pay it back if she becomes a SAHM.
Laura- I'm sure the commenter would say the same thing about other large expenses, but because the original post she commented on was about higher education, that was what she commented on.
Alex- I don't think anybody is saying being a SAHM is a biblical mandate for women. What they ARE saying is that it's biblically recommended that women be the primary nurturers of their children. No-one is saying she shouldn't work at all, and no-one is "forcing" her into the home. But it's an inescapable fact when you read the bible that God wants women to generally be the ones who are there for the kids, and fathers to be the breadwinners. Sure, there are instances, like yours, where that simply can't happen. But those should be exceptions, rather than the rule.
I'm also insulted at the suggestion that to be a healthy rounded adult you must have business connections. Refer back to Jim H's comment. He sums it up perfectly.
Thanks to Jennie for the original comment. Very well said and very gracious.
27. Ann had the following to say on Apr 11 at 3:36 AM:
So, hang on.
What about women who have already entered into higher education and started to stack up that debt? Am I wrong to do as I have done? I am currently in law school, so as a post grad, I am going to have more debt than most. I do worry that I'll have to pay it back before I can have children, because I would love to become a SAHM when the time comes.
But whilst I would love to be a SAHM, what am I to do in the mean time as I wait for my husband to come on the scene? My aunt had to wait for 50 years before she found her husband, I feel as though I may as well get an education, earn money for myself and even save for my future family. I don't think this is an incompatible desire with scripture. Proverbs 31 woman is a business woman; she buys her own land. My only reservation however is that the men in my life will see me as career orientated, when in fact I would give it all up for any future family. I seem to be treading a fine line, but I cannot put my life on hold whilst waiting for a husband.
28. Rebecca Matheson had the following to say on Apr 11 at 6:51 AM:
I'm really wondering why people keep throwing the 1 Tim verse around as in talking about providing for your immediate family. The context of the verse does talk about 'immediate' family but it's talking about widows and the people you 'don't want (necessarily) to care for - righting an injustice.
Something quite different.
29. Loris had the following to say on Apr 11 at 7:06 AM:
The SAH thing is something I'm wrestling with right now. I've been married 2 1/2 years and even though I have no children yet, I find it increasingly difficult to care deeply about my full time job. Don't get me wrong, I like my job, which is giving me good training and has room for advancement, but there is dissonance between my duty to show up every day to be paid and my duty to keep my apartment clean and comfortable for my husband. Bottom line, I think we need to find my husband a better job so I can go to part time. Mercifully, neither of us have school or car loans, and our debts from having a lot of car trouble are (comparatively) small.
30. Christiana had the following to say on Apr 11 at 8:25 AM:
I have been reading a library book called "Opting Out? Why Women Really Quit Careers and Head Home" by sociologist Pamela Stone, who interviewed middle and upper class women who decided to stay at home with their kids, many because of unsupportive jobs and social expectations, and this article really struck a nerve with me. I want to be able to be home, but right now, my husband is unemployed and has been since last year so I am the primary breadwinner and his unemployment benefits are not going to last much longer. We have been married just under a year. I am five months pregnant with our first child. I have been feeling depressed because I want to be able to be home, but I don't know how that will be possible with my work - even if I can telecommute - and my employer does not have paid maternity leave so I'd be using short term disability which at this point would only cover 100% base pay for four weeks then 60% after that up to 12 or 13 weeks. I don't see any choice open to me to go part-time, since my husband is unemployed and part-time probably would not provide the benefits we need. So before anyone says anything negative about working moms, please think about the economic necessity for working class and low-level professionals.
31. Holly had the following to say on Apr 11 at 8:36 AM:
Hey y'all, let's remember that there's lots of things that Bible-believing, Spirit-filled, born-again, whatever-else Christians can believe and live, and still be okay. I'm pretty sure that whether or not to be a stay-at-home mom is one of those issues.
Jim H, to say someone else's view is specifically un-Christian is pretty strong, especially since it's not a theological issue!
Let's season our words with grace, yes?
32. Eliza had the following to say on Apr 11 at 10:21 AM:
I also heard an interview on NPR with the author of "The Ten-Year Nap", and I had a completely different understanding of the book's intent. The author is not a Christian and is dealing with the predominant secular attitude that being a SAHM is a less-than-worthy endeavor. It is an honest reflection of her thoughts and feelings about the issue, and interactions with other mothers and other women who have chosen to stay in their careers. The author presented a positive attitude towards both positions.
It's important to note, too, that she in no way resented her choice to stay at home for 10 years. This was her choice, and she owns it proudly. I respected this woman for standing up for what she thought was best for her and her family.
33. Laura had the following to say on Apr 11 at 11:12 AM:
Okay, so women who are married and have children should stay home with them. Lots of debt in school bills is not financially wise.
So, why can't she work for a few years before having children?
And, what if she plans to homeschool her children? Wouldn't it be beneficial to be well-educated, so that she may educate her children well?
And, childhood doesn't last forever. Children do grow up. So what's a woman to do when she has an empty nest?
I think we also have a poor view of education if we're only considering the cost. There is much to be gained. And I think education is worth some sacrifice if it will make me a better person (and wife and mother someday).
34. Jim H had the following to say on Apr 11 at 12:15 PM:
There were some strong reactions to my commentary on Alex's posts (4 and 6), but I stand by them.
These posts reek of wordly feminist thinking about the vast male conspiracy to keep women under control. What caught my attention in particular the following two quotes:
------------------------------
"To say that a woman should be forced into the home is a power play on the part of men to keep women dependent (indeed, this is included in some people's 'doctrine'). "
"If a man is constantly gone earning all the money for his family it puts him in a 'control relationship with his wife (read: not LOVING) and children."
--------------------------------------
Now I am not denying that some men think in terms of control, but Christian men are NOT to have that attitude. In fact, I view marriage as mutual submission. The women submits to the man's leadership and the man submits to the needs of the woman, adores and cherishes her like Christ is the Husband to the Church. It is NOT supposed to be a control game and to think that way reveals a wordly mindset.
Now the men do not always step up to the plate and act as spiritual leaders who adore and honor their wife and provide financially for her and the children and I sympathize with everyone in that situation, including Alex. But that should not be the norm and Christian women (and men for that matter) need to be very discerning on who they choose as a mate.
The next point I want to make is that Alex chose to put a dollar value on the woman in post 6 and stated that the husband should honor her proportional to that dollar value. That again is worldy thinking. The value of a woman is MUCH greater $50K or $100K/year! She should be honored as a cherished daughter of God that she is!
My last point is this. The leadership of the man does not mean a dictatorship. If I were married with children, I would highly encourage my wife to be a stay at home mom, but would not force her into this if she really wanted to work. But of course the best way to prevent differences on such fundamental issues is to discuss them BEFORE marriage. Answers to these questions among many others should be considered carefully when you decide who to marry.
35. Courtney P. had the following to say on Apr 11 at 1:13 PM:
Being a wife and a mother, I believe are the highest callings in a womens life. As a college student my self, I look forward to the day of marriage and if God's will children, which make me no less of the person I am today. The Bible is the truth and with in it is what a Bibical family and marriage should look like i.e (Eph 5: 23-33, 1 Cor 7, etc..). Raising the next generation for the glory of seems pretty importnant to me? Just my 2 cents lol :)
36. Christina had the following to say on Apr 11 at 2:14 PM:
Becks and Adam,
Don't presume to think that a woman who wishes to forego education to raise a family is somehow INFERIOR to a woman who goes on to get a college degree.
I am a math and computer science major. I have a history minor. By all standards, I am educated. I had an SAT score going into College of 640 Quantitative and 660 Verbal...1300 SAT score made me bottom line acceptable to an Ivy League school such as Yale, Harvard, or Princeton. And that was without studying. Imagine if I had done what my father asked and retaken it to apply for Yale or Harvard. By all definition, I'm intelligent.
Yet I find NO pleasure in pursuing a career. I find hours of enjoyment and fulfillment from cleaning my home, doing my laundry, washing dishes, and cooking meals for my friends. I find great enjoyment in creating budgets and designing excel macros to automatically track my finances. I enjoy designing databases that can help me make cooking menus and shopping lists.
To think that you would insult my intelligence in claiming I've been DUPED into believing motherhood is more fulfilling and SAHM is the role that I should take.
As an intelligent woman, I can make my own choices and evaluate the circumstances on my own. As can Ashleigh Slater and Candice Watters. You presume to think that because we value the lifestyle of a SAHM more than that of a career, that we are somehow being tricked by some legalistic and pharisaic decree (mandate?) that that is the only life for a woman.
But I challenge YOU. How often have you stopped to consider what the benefits are of being a SAHM and attempted to challenge the worldview that a woman belongs in a career? I'm not saying you shouldn't pursue one or that you haven't, but don't you DARE think that I am too sub-intelligent to have a mind of my own.
37. Lola had the following to say on Apr 11 at 2:29 PM:
I agree that Fathers and Husbands should be primary breadwinners while Mothers and Wives should be homemakers and stay at home Mums like the bible tells us.
However I see potential for loneliness, especially for a wife who’s Husband doesn't help at all with the house work.
Furthermore, do stay at home mums/home makers ever get any time off, in the same way that men get evenings, weekends and Annual leave periods off work. Do Wives get someone to work with and talk to like their husband do in their jobs? I'm sure that wives in the bible had slaves and servants who helped with the house work. I see myself becoming very grumpy if I had to do all the cooking and house work alone.
Any ideas?
38. Lola had the following to say on Apr 11 at 2:40 PM:
I'm getting tired of people making comments like "If God's will children"
Does the bible ever tell us that it is ever God's will for any of us not to have children in marriage? am I missing something?
Or even in your personal walk with God, has He ever revealed to any of you that it is His will that you get married and NOT have children.
Please stop it. I beg you, all of you!
39. Christina had the following to say on Apr 11 at 2:44 PM:
Lola,
When I was little, I used to go with my mom when someone just had a baby or we would all go to someone's home and the mothers in the mother's group would help clean or help make food or something.
There is potential for church ministries to provide SAHMs with the social support you are talking about.
And, as we got older, my dad mandated my mother taking the evenings off. After dinner, me and my sister were responsible for clearing the table, putting food away, doing dishes, and cleaning the kitchen =p
Some would claim that's child labor. However, that's no different than a manager delegating work. We learned how to take care of the home (my brothers were in charge of garbage and clearing the table with us) while my mother got a much needed break.
40. BDB had the following to say on Apr 11 at 3:53 PM:
Becks (#23) wrote:
>>I would very much like to meet the highly educated stay-at-home mums who find that so much more fulfilling than their jobs. Good for them - if it is true.<<
I know a number of them. With their graduate degrees. Though, on reflection they discovered that most of their other mom-friends also had graduate degrees. Educated people tend to seek out each other so they can discuss ideas.
The thing is that it takes years for the full satisfaction of parenting to develop. It's kind of yucky to start with, if you asked me. Have pets and children if you want to add more vomit to your life.
Twenty years on, much higher satisfaction when someone has grown and developed under your guidance. So, like many things in life - comparing the short-term satisfaction of career success to diaper-changing isn't the full picture, it's not a fair comparison. The rewards come much further down the line.
Except, of course, for the people who love babies and kittens. Both grow up. For example, a cat is like an 18-month-old: they understand "no" and "stop it" and will ignore both until you are close enough to grab them...
In fact, it was when my friends with graduate degrees got to be about 28 and started waxing poetic about motherhood that I realized that the whole career-at-any-cost lifestyle was destined for trouble. As my sister described the reaction of one of her friends from graduate school, her plan to return to her career immediately after the birth of her child changed to, "Nevermind."
Which does lay out the risks for men with a lot of student loan debt. It is true that men may be happier with a woman with comparable education, as recommended by no less than George Mueller. She will be able to be a much better sounding board about decisions he needs to think through at work. But debt reduces flexibility - avoid it like the plague!
41. Rachael had the following to say on Apr 11 at 5:12 PM:
Jim H (34) wrote: "It is NOT supposed to be a control game and to think that way reveals a wordly mindset."
-->Right. It's not supposed to be a control game. Are there always red flags? How common would people say 'non-loving control' is in a Christian household? Do people often control non-lovingly with the mindset that it's actually a submission issue?
42. BDB had the following to say on Apr 11 at 5:46 PM:
Lola (#38) wrote:
>>Does the bible ever tell us that it is ever God's will for any of us not to have children in marriage? am I missing something?<<
It's more a reflection on the reality of couples who are unable to have children despite trying for years. I've got family members in this situation - they finally had to tell people about the medical situation because they kept getting pushed to start a family and it was so heartbreaking for them. But they were able to adopt eventually.
43. BDB had the following to say on Apr 11 at 6:05 PM:
Ann (#27) wrote:
>>What about women who have already entered into higher education and started to stack up that debt?<<
Two things to consider:
First, start thinking through what choices you might need to make to pay back the loan faster. Maybe that means a Honda Civic as your next car rather than a BMW. Yes, you might get teased by your peers. I know people laughed at my little Saturn. But it was a good place to begin to get the financial house in order first. If you monitor your credit report quarterly as you pay the debt off, it's VERY satisfying to watch the number creep up slowly. Buy a new car after you get your credit score to 800.
[And for anyone who disagrees with that last sentence, run your credit report and FICO score, and only complain if your score is over 800!]
Second, there may be men who are intereted in you who delayed marriage because of their own student loan debt. They will likely be more understanding of the situation - especially if you do #1 above.
44. Kellie had the following to say on Apr 11 at 6:51 PM:
At this point in my life, I'm not going to be a SAHM (though my husband could be a SAHD if he wanted). Whether it's biblical or not. Bills have to be paid, and my husband's income isn't enough. I'm not going to resent him for that. He works hard and he does the best he can. My own dad worked 3 jobs so my mom could stay home....I never saw him, he was too stressed out when he was home to do anything with his kids. I don't want that for my own family, whether it's Boundless' opinion that it's biblical or not.
45. Amir Larijani had the following to say on Apr 12 at 7:42 AM:
On one level, the primary audience for this discussion are the folks who either (a) have not married yet and/or (b) have not yet embarked on the choices that would be conducive to the SAHM or the full-time career.
Once you are dealing with a family that has two incomes, the children, the mortgage, and the two cars, then the dynamics of this discussion are different: at that point it becomes a matter of how to make the best out of a less-than-ideal situation.
On the other hand, those who are in the late teens or early 20s, who are looking at college versus tech school, who are pondering the SAHM vs. the professional career are the ones who ought to think long and hard and count the respective costs of their choices, but--most of all--seeking God on the matter.
If, at the end of the day, after having prayed about this, the desire of your heart is that career, then I have no quarrel with that. After all, Divine directives always take the precedence.
Others might say, "Well...the Bible doesn't tell me I HAVE to be a SAHM."
Neither am I telling you that. This is America, and I'm all for your freedom to pursue the life that you want.
That said, the costs are what they are, and the statistical reality of the two-income model reflects that--in general--the costs are far higher than you have been led to believe, and the return on investment (ROI) isn't nearly as hot as the marketing implies.
We can always point to exceptions to the rule. But the exceptions don't refute the rule, and no one with a fundamental knowledge of logic will debate that statement.
Even then, you are free to pursue the path of your choice.
On the other hand, when you are 38 years old, and you start getting irritated because your biological clock is almost expired, or are still single and wonder why men aren't interested, or are in a 2-income family that is broke because the theory was not congruent with your reality, just remember: you were warned.
My review of The Two Income Trap is coming tonight or tomorrow. Everyone considering the two-income model needs to read this book.
I do not agree with all the policy recommendations that the authors make--they tend to lean a bit to the left for me--but their presentation of the realities is very compelling and sobering.
46. Sarah P. had the following to say on Apr 12 at 10:18 AM:
To be perfectly honest, many of these arguments seem to me to include the same problems inherent in many debates about abortion. In all the talking about women's rights, they leave out the other persons involved in the equation - the kids.
The principle here is how best to care for kids and to maintain a godly family. Women are just plain (usually) better suited to care for kids than men are, and no woman is better suited to care for a kid than his or her own mom.
It's silly to give everything to this generation at the expense of the next.
47. Emily Hughes had the following to say on Apr 12 at 3:16 PM:
When a woman decides to submit to the word of God in caring for her home and family, and by submitting to her husband as the head of the household, as God has established it, she is submitting to God her father, she is honoring the Lord. God calls for total submission and dependence to him for the sustainment of our lives. Submission to him includes both the man and woman.
We are truly blessed to live in a society where a woman can obtain a post-graduate degree in any field, and can pursue any career she chooses, . Yet we as women bicker that men hold us down by wanting to provide us with a lifestyle in which we can serve God's commandment by raising our children and providing a safe, loving home for them and our husband!
Shame on us. Have we forgotten who has provided this opportunity of higher education and a meaningful career?? God has blessed us greatly, and anyone who assumes that are solely responsible for their achievements in life is denying the blessings and provision of God to achieve these blessings.
I've been fortunate to live through years of fear and utter dependence on God to provide for my family and I. Thankfully, he has provided, but never should we take for granted that God is the sole provision in any life circumstance. He provides according to his plan, and not our own. Sometimes his provision calls for us to live a life such as Paul's, and sometimes not. But a heart truly submitted to God will do what is right, even if it is uncomfortable for a time.
I graduated college debt-free, and I'm pursuing my graduate school teaching credential debt-free as well. There are many ways of preparing to contribute to a future family as a woman, that don't require hoards of debt hanging over your head. There are truly creative ways to contribute to your family finances as a wife and mom too! For example, I've chosen a career that can allow me to be a full-time mommy and teacher, so I can provide for my family. By returning to work once my children are in Kindergarden, I'll be able to work while they're in school, but also be there at home in the afternoons and summers. All one needs is to be open to finding those creative ways of using her degree and talents in a way that allows her to also bless her family and be there.
But let me just say this. When my boyfriend tells me that it is his ultimate goal is to be able to provide for us, so that my dreams can come true, nothing is better to hear than that---a man embracing his role from God that allows me to embrace mine.
I've been raising other women's children as a nanny for 8+ years, and it has confirmed two things for me.
1. Children need their mothers to nurture, love them and prepare them for the world, which is cold and harsh.
2. Parenting is not for wimps. The more I spend time with my charges, and see my influence in their life, the more respect and awe I have for this great responsibility we call "parenthood."
Believe me, parenthood requires ultimate sacrifices, and that's more than just choosing to stay home to raise your children.
48. Emily Hughes had the following to say on Apr 12 at 3:35 PM:
Ann,
I totally empathize with you and commend you for what you are doing as a woman of God, whilst preparing to support yourself until you meet the man that God has created for you.
I don't believe there is any one set way for how to prepare for the future, or that buying a home if you can afford it is wrong. By letting a man know that you embrace him into your life, and look forward to becoming the Godly wife he has prayed for, what would be wrong with that? All situations are different, and yes, you may have more debt than others, but if you need to pay it off while raising children and caring for a husband, you can always telecommute from home with your children there or find another creative strategy for help around the house at specific times while you work.
Preparing for life and enjoying it is what God wants. He came to give us life and give it abundantly. The Lord knows your call for a husband, and is preparing one who will value your individual contributions, goals and desires.
49. Emily Hughes had the following to say on Apr 12 at 3:51 PM:
Jim H (Post 34) says:
"Now the men do not always step up to the plate and act as spiritual leaders who adore and honor their wife and provide financially for her and the children and I sympathize with everyone in that situation, including Alex. But that should not be the norm and Christian women (and men for that matter) need to be very discerning on who they choose as a mate."
I couldn't agree with you more. I dated a guy for 7 years, who I thought I would marry and idealized every aspect of the relationship and a future marriage. But, as the years drenched on and his own finances became more drowned in debt, and he utterly refused to rise up and be a man, rather than a 29 year old teenage boy, I chose to dump him. Luckily, I grew up, sought God's direction and realized the truth before I found myself in the SAHM, while being married to a boy.
Women NEED TO BE WISE in choosing a spouse who is a Godly man, who can lead you and work to provide for you financially (doesn't mean you'll be rich!), spiritually and EVEN emotionally. There are many boys out there masquerading as men in the Christian church, and I've had to find that out the hard way.
Women, a Godly man will prove himself worthy to call himself your husband, and his actions will speak louder than his words. You are to be treasured by your husband, not disrespected, unadorned or mistreated, for you're a princess of the most high, and you deserve a suitor who has his act together and is a Godly man in the fullest sense of the word.
50. DannieA had the following to say on Apr 13 at 12:39 PM:
BDB...
Honda Civics can still be expensive. I say go for the VW Rabbit! It's a great car and it comes with everything for a lower price...in Toyotas, Hondas...in order to have what I have in my car...I would have to pay more in a toyota brand or honda to upgrade it.
Go VW....
51. rachel had the following to say on Apr 14 at 12:27 AM:
Some of us women don't have husbands to provide for us, so in this day-in-age we need a bachelors or masters degree to provide for ourselves.
52. Louise had the following to say on Apr 14 at 7:54 AM:
Re comment 43, my current vehicle is a 1999 Honda Civic.
I would like to purchase an Accord for my next vehicle but at present it appears that purchasing another Civic will be more compatible with my long term financial goals.
I had a laugh at the "teased by your peers" comment...at my old job a man said that my car was "a little gocart....God is that thing small."
A few weeks later I had the last laugh as I told him that during my work lunch hour I was the only motorist in the Taco Bell parking lot with a vehicle small enough to successfully navigate the parking lot with a long drive-through line!
:)
53. Leah had the following to say on Apr 14 at 8:44 AM:
Lola,
I do not believe that a SAHM is a Mum who has to do all the cooking and housework on her own! She has enough to do raising a child (or children) fulltime! Sure, she will be doing more cooking/cleaning than her husband seeing as she's home more than he is, but I'm sure all mature, godly men out there would fully agree that the husband has a responsibility to help out with some domestic duties.
I also believe a SAHM can find various ways to connect with her peers (like you mentioned about men in their workplace). A playgroup will give her a chance to connect with other Mums who have kids the same age as hers. Or perhaps a women's day-time bible study. Our church has several day-time bible studies aimed at women, and even a special bible study just for young mums (eg. who have kids below school age). They have 2 volunteers look after the kids so the Mums can have a peaceful bible study. And as the kids get a bit older (even 2 or 3), play dates (with Mum accompanying child) will give the Mums a chance to spend time together as well.
While I've never been a mother and can't say I've personally experienced this, I do know they are viable options, seeing as I've sometimes been the one looking after the children for the young mums' bible study, and my own mother made great connections with other mothers through a neighbourhood playgroup when I was young. (The mums from that playgroup still have a yearly reunion- 15 years later!)
54. Louise had the following to say on Apr 14 at 10:39 AM:
Re comment 53, when I was married there were several years in which I was the family breadwinner (the husband was attending college full time).
He was certainly home more than I was, but I was fully expected to do the lion's share of the cooking and and a half share of the cleaning chores.
In fact, one day after a particularly hard day at my full-time job I came home to him yelling at me that I didn't do "your share of the chores".
During my workweek, he was home several hours before I was!
I'm sure that is a scene that most male family breadwinners would not experience.
Many people do NOT agree that in a co-ed household men should be perform any domestic duties.
In many cases it is considered to be wholly the responsibility of the female or females residing in that household, fully regardless of employment status.
55. Sarah Elizabeth had the following to say on Apr 14 at 12:50 PM:
"How come that I see a lot of depressed housewives, failed marriages, unloving and distant families, unhealthy lifestyles and tv watching/ computer playing kids - precisely in those households where the mum stays at home or invests minimally in her career?
How come I see the opposite in the families where both husband and wife have a career?"
how come growing up I saw kids who gravitated towards my parents-my mom who stayed at home an dmy dad who owned a small business and were both very involved in my life. My parents made raising their children a priority (through a father who had a job in which he was not working insane hours and a mother who stayed at home oh and many hand me down clothes, christmases with few presents, very few dinners out, ice cream and mcdonalds were very special treats etc.).
My parents made it a point to make my siblings and I a priority-they cheered at our sporting events with a smile, a good luck wish, and a hug-and not just for us, but for our teammates and friends as well. Everyone on my sporting teams knew and loved my parents.
Many of their parents were never able to come to their games, many of them had no idea whether their kid made a goal or not becuase they were working. I know from talking with many of them they wished their parents had the freedom to be their. THey wished their parents were standing on the sidelines. Sure, they may have bought their clothes at american eagle instead of target, but i can guarantee many of them would have given up a few things to have their father handing them flowers and telling them good job at their last game.
And i'm not talking about little children-I'm talking about high school students.
I understand that their is going to be times when a sahm is tired and exhausted-there is going to be times when she feels like she just needs to talk to someone who can use more than 2 syllable words. But there is also great joy in spending time watching a child grow. Knowing that that child needs you.
As for mothers getting incredibly tired, while the father may be the breadwinner, part of his job in taking care of the family includes paying attention to the wife and making sure she is emotionally and physically taken care of.
*Being the breadwinner does not absolve the father of parenting responsibilities.
56. Rachael had the following to say on Apr 14 at 3:04 PM:
Hi car people (which I'm not but since I have a Honda Civic...),
Louise, you could make fun of him for having a big car :). I can't even tell how close I am to cars ahead and behind me in my car; it's not humongo, but it's not super small either. Used to have a really old bug but unfortunately little "Shirley" wasn't very reliable. The cow seat covers it came with were cute, though... :)
...I heard that in DC people actually run into each other's cars when they parallel park...
Where not to live 101
57. Leah had the following to say on Apr 14 at 8:24 PM:
Louise, I was clearly talking about situations where the husband is a mature, godly man who is the primary bread winner. A very different scenario to your own, so you can't compare it.
if you read my comment closely, you'll see that I said (in reference to stay at home mums, not husbands) "I'm sure all mature, godly men out there would fully agree that the husband has a responsibility to help out with some domestic duties".
DannieA- interesting, in Australia, you can easily pay more for a VW than for a Honda! (Of course, it depends on what model you buy).
58. BDB had the following to say on Apr 14 at 9:21 PM:
DannieA (#50) wrote:
>>Honda Civics can still be expensive. I say go for the VW Rabbit! <<
Hmmm...ironically, that reminds me of a guy I saw driving a Rabbit. His license plate frame said:
No It's Not
My Girlfriend's Car
59. BDB had the following to say on Apr 14 at 9:31 PM:
Rachael (#56) wrote:
>>The cow seat covers it came with were cute, though... :)<<
That's funny. I grew up in Puyallup where there were cows running distance from my home...and berry fields across the street.
And for those thinking of upgrading from a Civic to and Accord, just remember that it's not going to fit into a compact stall. I drove compacts for years. Eventually (after a particularly amuzing incident when I drove three 6-foot plus co-workers to lunch in my 2-door Saturn) I realized I needed a mid-sized to be taken seriously at a business lunch. But I keep trying to park in compact stalls and then shimmy out of the car sideways...my car is going to get so scratched up...
60. Christina (in green) had the following to say on Apr 15 at 7:55 AM:
Thank you, Sarah.
I often saw the same thing with my friends. They spent a lot of time at my house. And now all of my brothers' friends practically live at my house.
My mother has been a SAHM since I was 6 months old. My dad (at first) struggled to support us on one income, going from Plant nursery hand to teaching himself insurance policies and getting licensed for selling insurance. He spent a lot of time at home, owning his own business. I even helped him find clients, entering names into a database for a nickle a name.
My parents were HEAVILY involved in my life...and apparently it DOES appeal to the kids who didn't have their parents at home, considering half of my brother's senior class hangs out at my parents' house...
61. Louise had the following to say on Apr 15 at 9:36 AM:
Re comment 57, "mature and godly" can be defined many ways.
There will be exceptions of course, but I have seen enough of life to know that the vast majority of husbands of stay-at-home wives would not be agreeable to the suggestion that taking care of the household/children is their responsbility.
I've seen too many husbands of full-time working wives who do not lift a finger in those areas, just expecting the wife to work a "double shift", eight or more hours of work at the outside job, then several hours at home every night, then of course virtually the entire weekend.
There are exceptions to this of course, but I find the above to be the general situation.
62. Rachael had the following to say on Apr 15 at 4:03 PM:
BDB - So you must've 'done the Puyallup'...Didn't realize the town had cows and berries - nice.
63. Ann had the following to say on Apr 15 at 5:01 PM:
I will be pursing my Ph.D. in a few years. As of now, I have no debt. I have taken a 180 degree though. I want to have kids. (A year ago I did not want kids). When I do have kids, I want to be a stay at home mom. I have not met the right guy, but until then I shall pursue my Ph.D. and be debt free.
Debt is bad for anyone.
~Why is more acceptable for a man to have debt due school than a woman?
64. BDB had the following to say on Apr 15 at 10:11 PM:
Rachael (#62) wrote:
>>BDB - So you must've 'done the Puyallup'...Didn't realize the town had cows and berries - nice.<<
Yep. My grandfather used to run the education building. Imagine your grandfather being the guy giving tickets to every school kid in Pierce County...
65. Leah had the following to say on Apr 16 at 9:30 AM:
Louise, first you talk about husbands of "stay at home wives", then you talk about a full-time working wife. Which is it? My original comment was in reference to stay at home mums, but it is even truer for those working, especially full-time.
I wouldn't blame a husband for expecting his wife to do most of the housework IF she a)was not working fulltime and/or b)did not have small children at home. However, if she has small children at home, or if she is working (especially fulltime), every guy I know over the age of 18 would agree it is his responsibility to help with certain domestic duties, whether that be taking the trash out, mowing, helping with the washing up, etc.
And I don't believe "mature and godly" can be defined many ways. If a guy refuses to help his working wife around the house, he's not being godly or mature.
66. Louise had the following to say on Apr 16 at 11:18 AM:
Re comment 65, hey even I would like to be married to someone who agrees to total financial support then comes home from work every day and spends the evening cooking and cleaning.
But folks...there's one small problem here...REALITY.
It's not going to happen.
In fact, Laura Schlessinger addressed this in her book "The Proper Care and Feeding of Husbands."
I'd never thought I'd see the day when I agreed with her but strange things happen I suppose...she wrote about stay-at-home moms (both with and without young children) who complain that the full-time working husband doesn't want to do cooking/cleaning chores.
Ms. Schlessinger replies "Well, do you go to his workplace and do his projects and go to his meetings?"
Not surprisingly the answer in every case is "No, those are HIS responsibilities."
Touche!
If "every guy I know over eighteen agrees with you" well maybe things are different in Australia.
I have never been there.
And re "washing up" do you mean what we in the US call "doing dishes?"
I have heard that is a British term.
Maybe I will move to Australia. They have state sponsored health insurance and I am thouroughly tired of the lousy Midwestern US climate.
67. June had the following to say on Apr 18 at 5:38 PM:
Okay...forgive me for not reading every single comment here. If what I am saying has been address, I am sorry; but I am obliged to point out that what Alex was saying in his first post was that his father was the breadwinner and that his mother was the caretaker for the children. It was NOT that his mother was a single mom.
Alex was merely saying that his father was so busy working that he was never there to parent the children and that this put a great deal of stress on his mother and the children because she was wholely inadequate to be both mother and father.
I can attest to this, as well. I rarely ever see my father and have rarely ever seen him in my whole life. He's too busy trying to provide for this family. But unlike Alex's mother, my mother dealt with it by sharing the burden of raising the rest of the children on me. I was only 5 years old when I took my little brothers' hands and guided them on their letters and ran them through their phonics. I was only beginning to learn it myself; but, as I was a quick learner, my mother had me teach my siblings what I had learned. Even my older sister would come to me for help over the years. (We were homeschooled.)
Don't get me wrong. I'm going to stay home with my children. Nothing in the world could ever make me put them in daycare. But I'm also going to try to help my husband with the bills by not only saving him money with my housework and coupons but also with a side business that can be run from home so that his burden will be less, enabling him to be there for the children, as well.
68. Melanie had the following to say on Apr 20 at 6:47 PM:
While I agree with much of what Jennie descibes, may I offer another perspective as one who is a stay at home mom of four children?
I haven't read every comment posted here but from what I've skimmed over the missing key from the debate is the underestimation of the strong affection a woman will have for her children and the dramatic shift of desires once she falls in love with her little baby.
In planning to stay home with children it appears to be assumed that a woman would find more joy and fullfillment in a career. But because the Bible commands women to be keepers at home, and the primary caregiver, we must "sacrifice our selfish desires" for the sake of our children. May I suggest that those desires change when the first baby is born. You will WANT TO stay home and you WILL PREFER to be your child's primary caregiver. You will SHELFISHLY (and rightly so) NOT WANT to share your child with another; you will be jeolous of that time and being privy to your child's milestones and quirks.
Of all the mom's I know who work full time, NONE of them are happy to be working. It is not their preference and all would rather be at home. The choice is economically driven. The personal satisfaction they may find in their jobs does not make up for the heartache of leaving their children behind.
The Bible gives us instruction on how to order our families not just for the sake of our children and God's glory but for our joy. Truly, women you WILL BE HAPPIER as stay at home moms. Children are for our JOY and are given as good gifts. Please don't believe the world's lie that a career will make you happier and that to forsake one for the sake of your children will be sacrifice.