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I Doubt It: How to Deal with Uncertainty
by Denise Morris on 04/25/2008 at 12:48 PM

Have you ever found yourself doubting your faith -- even just a little bit? Does God really exist? Is Christianity the only way? How can we be sure?

I've had these questions, and I would guess that many of you have as well. But how do we deal with them?

Well, I have a few suggestions. First you should watch our new TrueU video -- I, apparently, am a very doubtful person.

Second, you should definitely check out Jason Boyett's latest TrueU article. In it, he talks about one of his weaknesses -- doubt. But instead of hiding in shame because he's not always sure about his faith, he decided to take Paul's advice and boast in his weakness:

I'll willingly identify myself as a Christian. I live as a Christian. I write magazine articles and books for Christians. But there are days that I don't feel like a Christian. Faith for me is hard.

There are plenty of reasons for this. Maybe you identify with them. Sometimes I doubt because of sin. Willful disobedience doesn't remove me from God's presence or love — nothing can do that, according to Romans 8:38-39 — but it can certainly mess up my experience of His presence and love. Sometimes I doubt because of negligence. When I'm going through a spell of prayerlessness or spiritual apathy, God begins to feel distant. It should be no surprise, then, when it feels like He's not just far away, but completely absent.

Jason recommends admitting our doubts, refusing to fear them, and then understanding how doubt and faith work together. He points out that to get beyond doubt, we must practice our faith:

In the presence of doubt, the best way to express faith is by living it out. There may be a lot of things that bring me uncertainty, but there are plenty of things about which I'm very certain. I know that it's good to worship God and to gather with fellow believers. I know that it's good to extend mercy and grace to others, just like it's been extended to me. I know that I am to show love without discretion, I am to give without selfishness, and I am to care for those who can't pay me back. So when I'm faced with theological or philosophical uncertainty, the most faithful thing for me to do is to practice those things I'm certain about. So I worship. I give. I love. I obey.

I think this is beautiful. It's faith in action -- it's us living what we say we believe, even when it is difficult. It is recognizing that, as Jason says, "Jesus frees us -- not the absence of doubt."

Comments

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1

Thank you. I really needed to hear that. It reminds me of a passage where Jesus said something to the effect of, if anyone doubts if this is true, give it a try - live it out. I can't remember the passage more specifically than that. But I like this a lot.


2

For me sin is a disease that's inborn with a slew of consequences that is entirely natural and unique to us and our world. Part of that is doubt, and doubting faith, dobuting what you believe. Boyett hit on the head when he said when being in doubt we should do things we know are good. For me that's praying and reading the word, it's only when I do those two things does my conscience become awaken to reality and the gravity of the life I live in Christ living in the world. Hebrews 10:22-23 says it all: "let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water. Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful." Amen.


3

Doubt and checking oneself to be in the faith might actually be a good thing, to a degree.

Works do not pay our debt - Jesus paid that. Still, we need to "practice our faith". Thanks for the reminder.


4

I bet this posting isn't going to get a lot of comments. People love to think that they know what's going on and they're right about it. Naturally.

It seems to me that you cannot have a strong faith without coming through at least one phase of serious doubt. Otherwise it doesn't fit the definition of "faith". I honestly think that this is a HUGE reason so many people leave the church. As soon as they express doubt, rather than just accepting and embracing the person, the church generally condemns their doubt as sin and tells them they need to repent of it. Not exactly a welcoming atmosphere for sincere conversation.


5

I don't look at doubt as sin. It's not wrong to ask questions. Doubt says to God, "I can't see!" and then He answers back, "That's faith, you dummy. It's just the way the world is. If you could see and feel me, you would no longer be walking by faith. You'd be walking by sensation."

I think God wants us to make the first effort sometimes and come looking for Him when we can't see Him. I do believe it is healthy to challenge everything we believe. What "proof" is there, after all, that the Bible is not just a bunch of men's ideas written down as their best attempt to explain the same world everyone else is also trying to explain? I like what Puddleglum says in The Silver Chair when he stomps on the witch's magic fire - something like, "I daresay you're right, that Aslan and all the rest is fantasy. But if so, I'd much rather live in that fantasy than in what you call real."

Without a loving God, the world degenerates into chaos, despair and death. So I believe in God, or I cease to exist. God is life itself.


6

I worked at a camp for a few summers, and our director always had some great messages for us on Sundays (since we couldn't make it to a church service). There was one that really struck about doubt. He talked about John the Baptist in Matthew 11.

John's disciples went to Jesus (John was in prison) with this question: "Are you the one who was to come, or should we expect someone else?"

Jesus replies with his always mysterious answer, never giving a simple "yes" or "no." He talks about all the signs and miracles he had been performing. Right after that, Jesus goes so far as to praise John, saying, "Among those born of women there has not risen anyone greater than John the Baptist."

Even John the Baptist, the one who claimed he was unworthy to untie Jesus' sandals expressed his doubt to Jesus himself! Not only did Jesus not disown or question John's salvation, he praised him for being great!

What a great encouragement this chapter has been to me as I struggle and work through certain doubts in my mind.

One of the catch phrases my camp director used throughout this sermon was simply this: "Doubt your doubts." You know what it is like to live a Christian life, you know how God has worked, you've seen it, felt it, etc. Don't give up because of little doubts - doubt them instead!

Soli Deo Gloria!
josh


7

Some years ago I heard a sermon or read a book - I can't remember which - where they stated that the one question God never answers is "why?"

Thankfully, it turns out that isn't true. Though the few times I've gotten an answer, it pushed me out of my comfort zone - usually something along the lines that I suddenly realize that God needed to teach me a lesson when I was being stubborn and refusing to learn.

I've tried to become better about paying attention to when I need to change BEFORE the heat gets turned up so much..


8

For whatever selfish characteristics embedded in my nature, I seem to doubt more than I believe at times,as apparent by my most recent spiritual drought of prayerlessness and spiritual indifference in which I cannot seem to overcome... but at least it's comforting to know that I'm still thirsty.

At the moment,God does not seem real to me. The main reason for this uncomfortable realization is the pain and suffering that I observe and overwhelmingly feel due to reasons beyond my comprehension. When I pray, I feel bitter and angry. When I try to read scripture, I feel cynical.

In an unglorious fashion, I am kinda just joyridin' my faith hoping that God will remain faithful to his promises and relieve this sadness that ages me daily. I don't want to wait for Heaven for relief and justification; I want to be effective and experience joy in this lifetime. These unconcluded desires fuel my doubt which hinders my faith.

In this manner, I guess I have a lot to learn on how to live out my faith even when I feel empty. I admire Jason's conviction, but I'm having a hard time making sense of it.

I'm such a stubborn soul.


9

Jeremy - you and I both. You took the words out of my mouth. But I still pray to God to help me fight my unbelief. Maybe we don't doubt the existence of God, but whether or not he'll help US.

I don't know, maybe I should not be posting a comment about this.

I know God is real. As empty as the Words feel when I read the Bible and as worthless my prayers feel. I know He's listening.

Read Psalms. There's David there, crying out to God and pouring out his soul. As hopeless as he was. He never stopped praising God, and he always knew God was good. He never doubted Him.

David teaches me what to do when I feel hopeless. In the midst of chaos and hopeless, I'll still praise God.

I know we'll see the light soon.


10

Jeremey, M, I hear ya both! You said it pretty good as far as where I'm at I'm struggling with doubt and indifference as well. It's left me unmotivated. I hate that. I don't want to feel this way. For me it all started when Dawkin's "The God Delusion" came out. Thankfully there's been those who have written about it and offered counter points "The Dawkin's Delusion". For me, I have this sense of dread, that the final "strong delusion" spoken about in prophecy is finally coming to pass. I so don't want to be caught in that. One of the things that has helped me a lot is listening to praise music. It's renewed my hunger and thirst for God's presence in my life.


11

Jeremy, M., Joseph: Your valleys have much to offer. Your faith is strongest when everything screams death and destruction, and yet you still step forward. David was a "man after God's heart," and he cries out his doubts constantly. God is big enough.

"I believe that I shall look upon the goodness of the Lord in the land of the living! Wait for the Lord; be strong, and let your heart take courage; wait for the Lord!" (Ps. 27:13-14).

"Fear not, O land; be glad and rejoice, for the Lord has done great things! Fear not, you beasts of the field, for the pastures of the wilderness are green; the tree bears its fruit; the fig tree and vine give their full yield . . . I will restore to you the years that the swarming locust has eaten, the hopper, the destroyer, and the cutter, my great army, which I sent among you" (Joel 2:21-25; in the wilderness, you know that all fruit that grows comes from God's hand alone).

In guys, depression often comes out like anger. It is so easy to see darkness, because it is real. Our blindness is more "natural" to us than sight because the ability to see light is purely God-given.

Ask God to give you grace to see Him at work in a particular day, and I guarantee that it will be answered. But you have to reclaim that each and every day because we only have manna for one day at a time.


12

My current biggest doubts about God have to do with Christianity perpetuating a kind of abuser-victim relationship, where God is the abusive authority who give us "choice" only under duress. I have not heard a good answer to this yet. Answers of "just have faith" and "God's ways are beyond our ways" are unhelpful and conversation enders.

A good essay on this from an agnostic's perspective is here. If anyone wants to take a stab at responding to this problem, please do. I'd love to hear it.


13

Eliza,

Where do you find this "kind of abuser-victim relationship" in the Bible, "where God is the abusive authority who give us 'choice' only under duress." I think that would be the first place to start before helpful and thoughtful conversation can take place. Then I think digging into those Scripture verses would be a great benefit in identifying what doubts and issues you may have.

You are right. "Answers of 'just have faith' and 'God's ways are beyond our ways'are unhelpful and conversation enders." In my opinion, it is because these things are said without Scripture verses or references to back up those statements. They are just said on the whim. And maybe without love. And maybe they are said incorrectly too. They may not be godly things to say at all! [for example, the answer of "just have faith"]

Now if you have trouble with believing that the Bible is God's Word, not the Truth, etc.. than that is shaky foundation to stand on and it makes it so much harder to search through Scripture and examine it when you don't really believe what you are reading. I hope I am making sense here! It's just that if you have no foundation to stand on, than that's a way bigger problem then your doubt.


14

IMO,

I think we could reference Job for the "abuser-victim" relationship...

Putting "God's ways are beyond our ways" aside, I know the story of Job is one of the biggest hang ups in how God loves us. WHY would God do such a thing to a guy who was, in God's own words, a righteous man?

But seriously, reading Job in the context of scripture, Job was given exactly what ALL of us deserve...including himself. And his repeated plea was exactly what God gave us - someone to intercede for us on our behalf...because we aren't worthy of any good thing that is given to us. All good things are gifts given to us by a father who loves us. The absense of those gifts isn't evidence of a God who hates us, but simply one who hasn't given a gift yet...but in his time, he will.

No, still not very helpful...but its important to remind ourselves that we really don't deserve anything good that comes our way. That might serve to cultivate in us some humility and thanksgiving for the good gifts that ARE given to us.


15

-My first post was flagged as spam because of the number of links to BibleGateway, so here is the post again with the references in parentheses-


I do have doubts about the legitimacy of the Bible which arise from my doubts about God (after all, if there is no God, the Bible is worthless), but my present question deals only with perceived contradictions within the cannon and with real life, so I'll limit myself to those.

God created us with free will because he wanted us to choose to love him and not be "robots". However, our choice (Mark 16:15-16) is between loving God and burning up. This is duress by any definition. In fact, little of what the Lord requests is much of a choice (Numbers 32:15-23). Love me or die (2 Thessalonians 1:3-10). (Incidentally, if the highest form of love is that which is freely given, then we must continue to have free will in heaven, which would still allow for rebellion even after the end of days.)

God says he recognizes that we love (1 John 2:3-6) him by obeying (Leviticus 18:4-5) him. God's law mandated that disobedience to him resulted in stoning (Numbers 15: 32-36), banishment (Numbers 15: 30-31), and trial by ordeal (Numbers 5:11-31). (Interesting sidenote that the trial by ordeal applied only to women, not to men.)

In spite of this, the Bible frequently reminds us of how much God loves (Exodus 34:5-7) us. He only wishes our good (Romans 8:28), and yet the Bible actually encourages pain (James 1:2-4) for our spiritual development.

To me, this sounds extremely similar to an egomaniacal domestic abuser who continues to express love and affection for his victim while asserting absolute control. The victim may do something the abuser dislikes completely unintentionally (or with good intentions) and the abuser will respond in rage (2 Samuel 6:6-7). Naturally, the abuser views his rage as the victim's fault (Luke 23:41). The victim never leaves both because s/he is convinced s/he loves the abuser that he loves her, and if she leaves she knows he will kill her. And so the cycle of submission and violence will continue.

The actual God of the Bible seems very close to what I have described. If you say that God is "loving" but also "holy and just", there are instances (Genesis 21: 8-21) of questionable (Ezra 10:1-4; Matthew 5:31-32; James 1:27) justice. If you say that God's definition of what is "just" and "loving" is beyond what we can comprehend, or that whatever God declares is good is good just because He declares it, then those words have been watered down beyond usefulness and are meaningless.

Honestly, I am really really stumped by this one. It's hard for me to look at everything that God does in the Bible and say that it's "good". It goes against everything I, as a creature created in the image of God, know (Jeremiah 31:33; Romans 1:18-20) to be right. I'd love to hear you're comments.


16

Eliza,
Thank you for your thoughtful response. I really admire you for being open about your (spiritual) struggles and how you really dig deep with them.

From what I've read from previous posts, you say that you prayed a lot.. Do you think you heard back from God? If you asked God these questions, do you think He would reveal something to you?I mean, was there any "fruit" from those prayers? Or was it more like banging your head against the wall?


Anyway, the abuser-God thesis just doesn't stick with me. And I'm not sure why it's so easy for me to reject it. And I'm definitely not saying I'm better than you for not having it stick to me. And I'm not a theologian or even going to try to poke holes in your thesis or argument (whatever you want to call it :) )..

Haha I guess I really don't have a comment, just more of a question! How did you come across this abuser-God theology? I ask because I'm thinking it came from your background or something related to your experiences. I could be wrong. That's why I ask! :)

For what it's worth, my husband came from a very neglectful, abusive background, and he found grace, hope, and joy in Christ (along of course with salvation)


17

IMO,

From what I've read from previous posts, you say that you prayed a lot.. Do you think you heard back from God? If you asked God these questions, do you think He would reveal something to you?I mean, was there any "fruit" from those prayers? Or was it more like banging your head against the wall?

I couldn't really say if I've heard back or not. Is an idea popping into my head "hearing from God"? Maybe. Whether or not I think he'll reveal something isn't really important. Even if it feels like I'm banging my head against the wall, the wall might tell me something :P. Yes, I've told God what I think of him. We'll see what comes of it. It's definitely a process, not a transaction.

I grew up in a close-knit conservative evangelical family with a deeply spiritual stay-at-home-mom and quite the Bible education. I honestly don't think I'm extracting nonsense out of scripture with my perspective. Lots of well-adjusted people have come to these conclusions (only exacerbated by the more extreme fundamentalist Christians, naturally).


18

Eliza, I definitely don't think you are "extracting nonsense out of scripture." I'm sorry if what I said came across that way!

Your perspective/opinion is just as valid as anybody else's. Duh I know you know that :P ... I guess for me it's just hard to articulate what I would like to say and write it down... it ends up looking very random. I was just trying to get at the fact that we all struggle with certain aspects of our faith... but as Christians we have much hope in our struggles. And that for Christians, the one thing we must bank on is the Cross. And cling to that...


19

Dear Eliza,

Thank you for being so open and honest about your doubts. Perhaps it will encourage others to voice doubts as well.

I suppose this is a "just have faith" type of answer, and it may not provide any solace to you, but remember Romans 9:14-21. Perhaps this seems like a non-answer to you. I guess for me I just understand how limited my human mind is and just trust that God knows more even when I do not understand His ways.

Christina (14) wrote: "we aren't worthy of any good thing that is given to us."

Somehow I'm reminded of something I once heard by RC Sproul on his "Chosen by God" series on tape (you might be interested to give it a listen even if you don't agree...):

"One group gets mercy, and one group gets justice. Who gets injustice? Nobody gets injustice. Mercy is NONjustice. INjustice is nonjustice, but injustice and mercy are not the same thing. Mercy is perfectly good. Is there anything sinful about injustice? Yes, injustice is a violation of justice – it’s sin, it’s evil.

God gives justice to one group, and mercy to another group."

(not sure whether or not that is verbatim, but it's from my notes I once took [when listening to R.C. Sproul on tape] )

Do you think you might be wrestling with the free will view but unwilling to accept the view that man does not choose God on his own? I remember several years ago, standing in a Christian bookstore commenting to a friend: "I don't know if I believe in free will." And you know what? I don't. At least not with salvation. That said, I think I believe there is some degree of responsibility, because of Romans 1:20. I don't know how it works, but I do believe that God is ultimate in control and in predestination.

I don't know if this is of any help to you...but I hope so...

May God draw you close to Him!

And remember, what IF belivers were wrong? In the end, what would there be to lose? But what if we were not of the faith and were wrong? We'd have everything to lose...


20

I'm a lot like IMO in which I never struggled with accepting God as loving AND holy and just. The choice to love God or burn was never much of a problem for me. Ten years ago, I wouldn't have had much to offer than the fact that loving God was just enjoyable to me.

Now, mainly cuz there's not much a sheltered 14 year old can do to really harm herself, at 24 I have a better idea of loving discipline vs giving into disobedience without repercussion. I've experienced both...and from experience, I'll take a loving, holy, and just God over not choosing to love God. Its just that each commandment that God put down was there to keep us safe...obeying him out of love kept us from burning in ANY sin we committed. Choosing not to love God gives us free reign without being concerned for the consequences, only each commandment broken causes some pain to oneself and others... and burning in hell is only the extreme of what could happen on earth.

Think about a 13 year old girl going through an abortion and hating herself for it. The 24 year old man locked in a closet shooting heroine. Or the couple struggling with AIDS as they are pregnant with their first child...

I don't know...if God's commands set us free from that kind of pain and "burning" in this life, then I can't help but see his disciplines as merciful instruction - even if it is breaking out in boils for a season.

I think its legitimately part of our faith to go through seasons of doubt. A faith is only so strong in how well it stands against doubting questions...so of course it needs to face them at some point...


21

Hi IMO,

I definitely didn't read your comment as implying that what I was saying was nonsense. I guess I've just run into too many dismissive people and was being unnecessarily proactive :P. The thing about doubt is that unfortunately, it undercuts that very thing we want/need to cling to. Tricky.


Hi Rachael,

The thing about Pascal's Wager (your last paragraph) is that it applies to all other religions and gods too. If Islam is true, we actually have everything to lose by believing in Christianity! The same goes for LDS, Judaism, Eastern Orthodoxy/Roman Catholism, and to a lesser extent, Hinduism and Buddhism. If any of their gods are the true god and we're wrong, then we are in trouble. Paul himself said, "If only for this life we have hope in Christ, we are to be pitied more than all men" (I Cor. 15:19).

I think that the free will/ predestination question is a sub-question to what I'm really asking. To me, the most fundamental Christian assertion is that God is good. If God is good, you can trust that his mercy and justice is good and that his plan is good and you CAN "cling to the cross" and "just have faith" and all that jazz.

I don't think that pure predestination can coincide with God being good. If God actually creates humans who are predestined for eternal punishment and who have no chance to reverse that destiny, then he is not good. Just the fact that this all-powerful, holy God created the opportunity for hell is sketchy (and this argument is planted firmly in the "free will" camp). As Christians so often like to say, if you call a dog's tail a leg, that doesn't make it a leg. In the same way, if a person calls cruelty "good", that doesn't make it so. It probably just makes them delusional.

So, here is my dilemma. If God is good than we can just trust him when he says that everything he does is just. But if he is not good, than suddenly his whole plan is in doubt. From an earthly, human perspective, there seems to be a rising pile of evidence suggesting that God is of a Jekyll and Hyde quality. The problem of hell and sin are the main issues. If we do not have free choice, God is evil because he forces people into hell. If free choice is essential because God doesn't want "robots", then free choice must exist forever, even after death. Even so, when hell is a part of the equation, "free choice" is a questionable term.

Of course, the goodness of God is not something that can be proved, and I assume is a deeply personal revelation. I'm going to talk to my pastor about it tomorrow, to see what he says.


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Newer Post | Older Post


I Doubt It: How to Deal with Uncertainty
by Denise Morris on 04/25/2008 at 12:48 PM

Have you ever found yourself doubting your faith -- even just a little bit? Does God really exist? Is Christianity the only way? How can we be sure?

I've had these questions, and I would guess that many of you have as well. But how do we deal with them?

Well, I have a few suggestions. First you should watch our new TrueU video -- I, apparently, am a very doubtful person.

Second, you should definitely check out Jason Boyett's latest TrueU article. In it, he talks about one of his weaknesses -- doubt. But instead of hiding in shame because he's not always sure about his faith, he decided to take Paul's advice and boast in his weakness:

I'll willingly identify myself as a Christian. I live as a Christian. I write magazine articles and books for Christians. But there are days that I don't feel like a Christian. Faith for me is hard.

There are plenty of reasons for this. Maybe you identify with them. Sometimes I doubt because of sin. Willful disobedience doesn't remove me from God's presence or love — nothing can do that, according to Romans 8:38-39 — but it can certainly mess up my experience of His presence and love. Sometimes I doubt because of negligence. When I'm going through a spell of prayerlessness or spiritual apathy, God begins to feel distant. It should be no surprise, then, when it feels like He's not just far away, but completely absent.

Jason recommends admitting our doubts, refusing to fear them, and then understanding how doubt and faith work together. He points out that to get beyond doubt, we must practice our faith:

In the presence of doubt, the best way to express faith is by living it out. There may be a lot of things that bring me uncertainty, but there are plenty of things about which I'm very certain. I know that it's good to worship God and to gather with fellow believers. I know that it's good to extend mercy and grace to others, just like it's been extended to me. I know that I am to show love without discretion, I am to give without selfishness, and I am to care for those who can't pay me back. So when I'm faced with theological or philosophical uncertainty, the most faithful thing for me to do is to practice those things I'm certain about. So I worship. I give. I love. I obey.

I think this is beautiful. It's faith in action -- it's us living what we say we believe, even when it is difficult. It is recognizing that, as Jason says, "Jesus frees us -- not the absence of doubt."

Comments

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1

Thank you. I really needed to hear that. It reminds me of a passage where Jesus said something to the effect of, if anyone doubts if this is true, give it a try - live it out. I can't remember the passage more specifically than that. But I like this a lot.


2

For me sin is a disease that's inborn with a slew of consequences that is entirely natural and unique to us and our world. Part of that is doubt, and doubting faith, dobuting what you believe. Boyett hit on the head when he said when being in doubt we should do things we know are good. For me that's praying and reading the word, it's only when I do those two things does my conscience become awaken to reality and the gravity of the life I live in Christ living in the world. Hebrews 10:22-23 says it all: "let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water. Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful." Amen.


3

Doubt and checking oneself to be in the faith might actually be a good thing, to a degree.

Works do not pay our debt - Jesus paid that. Still, we need to "practice our faith". Thanks for the reminder.


4

I bet this posting isn't going to get a lot of comments. People love to think that they know what's going on and they're right about it. Naturally.

It seems to me that you cannot have a strong faith without coming through at least one phase of serious doubt. Otherwise it doesn't fit the definition of "faith". I honestly think that this is a HUGE reason so many people leave the church. As soon as they express doubt, rather than just accepting and embracing the person, the church generally condemns their doubt as sin and tells them they need to repent of it. Not exactly a welcoming atmosphere for sincere conversation.


5

I don't look at doubt as sin. It's not wrong to ask questions. Doubt says to God, "I can't see!" and then He answers back, "That's faith, you dummy. It's just the way the world is. If you could see and feel me, you would no longer be walking by faith. You'd be walking by sensation."

I think God wants us to make the first effort sometimes and come looking for Him when we can't see Him. I do believe it is healthy to challenge everything we believe. What "proof" is there, after all, that the Bible is not just a bunch of men's ideas written down as their best attempt to explain the same world everyone else is also trying to explain? I like what Puddleglum says in The Silver Chair when he stomps on the witch's magic fire - something like, "I daresay you're right, that Aslan and all the rest is fantasy. But if so, I'd much rather live in that fantasy than in what you call real."

Without a loving God, the world degenerates into chaos, despair and death. So I believe in God, or I cease to exist. God is life itself.


6

I worked at a camp for a few summers, and our director always had some great messages for us on Sundays (since we couldn't make it to a church service). There was one that really struck about doubt. He talked about John the Baptist in Matthew 11.

John's disciples went to Jesus (John was in prison) with this question: "Are you the one who was to come, or should we expect someone else?"

Jesus replies with his always mysterious answer, never giving a simple "yes" or "no." He talks about all the signs and miracles he had been performing. Right after that, Jesus goes so far as to praise John, saying, "Among those born of women there has not risen anyone greater than John the Baptist."

Even John the Baptist, the one who claimed he was unworthy to untie Jesus' sandals expressed his doubt to Jesus himself! Not only did Jesus not disown or question John's salvation, he praised him for being great!

What a great encouragement this chapter has been to me as I struggle and work through certain doubts in my mind.

One of the catch phrases my camp director used throughout this sermon was simply this: "Doubt your doubts." You know what it is like to live a Christian life, you know how God has worked, you've seen it, felt it, etc. Don't give up because of little doubts - doubt them instead!

Soli Deo Gloria!
josh


7

Some years ago I heard a sermon or read a book - I can't remember which - where they stated that the one question God never answers is "why?"

Thankfully, it turns out that isn't true. Though the few times I've gotten an answer, it pushed me out of my comfort zone - usually something along the lines that I suddenly realize that God needed to teach me a lesson when I was being stubborn and refusing to learn.

I've tried to become better about paying attention to when I need to change BEFORE the heat gets turned up so much..


8

For whatever selfish characteristics embedded in my nature, I seem to doubt more than I believe at times,as apparent by my most recent spiritual drought of prayerlessness and spiritual indifference in which I cannot seem to overcome... but at least it's comforting to know that I'm still thirsty.

At the moment,God does not seem real to me. The main reason for this uncomfortable realization is the pain and suffering that I observe and overwhelmingly feel due to reasons beyond my comprehension. When I pray, I feel bitter and angry. When I try to read scripture, I feel cynical.

In an unglorious fashion, I am kinda just joyridin' my faith hoping that God will remain faithful to his promises and relieve this sadness that ages me daily. I don't want to wait for Heaven for relief and justification; I want to be effective and experience joy in this lifetime. These unconcluded desires fuel my doubt which hinders my faith.

In this manner, I guess I have a lot to learn on how to live out my faith even when I feel empty. I admire Jason's conviction, but I'm having a hard time making sense of it.

I'm such a stubborn soul.


9

Jeremy - you and I both. You took the words out of my mouth. But I still pray to God to help me fight my unbelief. Maybe we don't doubt the existence of God, but whether or not he'll help US.

I don't know, maybe I should not be posting a comment about this.

I know God is real. As empty as the Words feel when I read the Bible and as worthless my prayers feel. I know He's listening.

Read Psalms. There's David there, crying out to God and pouring out his soul. As hopeless as he was. He never stopped praising God, and he always knew God was good. He never doubted Him.

David teaches me what to do when I feel hopeless. In the midst of chaos and hopeless, I'll still praise God.

I know we'll see the light soon.


10

Jeremey, M, I hear ya both! You said it pretty good as far as where I'm at I'm struggling with doubt and indifference as well. It's left me unmotivated. I hate that. I don't want to feel this way. For me it all started when Dawkin's "The God Delusion" came out. Thankfully there's been those who have written about it and offered counter points "The Dawkin's Delusion". For me, I have this sense of dread, that the final "strong delusion" spoken about in prophecy is finally coming to pass. I so don't want to be caught in that. One of the things that has helped me a lot is listening to praise music. It's renewed my hunger and thirst for God's presence in my life.


11

Jeremy, M., Joseph: Your valleys have much to offer. Your faith is strongest when everything screams death and destruction, and yet you still step forward. David was a "man after God's heart," and he cries out his doubts constantly. God is big enough.

"I believe that I shall look upon the goodness of the Lord in the land of the living! Wait for the Lord; be strong, and let your heart take courage; wait for the Lord!" (Ps. 27:13-14).

"Fear not, O land; be glad and rejoice, for the Lord has done great things! Fear not, you beasts of the field, for the pastures of the wilderness are green; the tree bears its fruit; the fig tree and vine give their full yield . . . I will restore to you the years that the swarming locust has eaten, the hopper, the destroyer, and the cutter, my great army, which I sent among you" (Joel 2:21-25; in the wilderness, you know that all fruit that grows comes from God's hand alone).

In guys, depression often comes out like anger. It is so easy to see darkness, because it is real. Our blindness is more "natural" to us than sight because the ability to see light is purely God-given.

Ask God to give you grace to see Him at work in a particular day, and I guarantee that it will be answered. But you have to reclaim that each and every day because we only have manna for one day at a time.


12

My current biggest doubts about God have to do with Christianity perpetuating a kind of abuser-victim relationship, where God is the abusive authority who give us "choice" only under duress. I have not heard a good answer to this yet. Answers of "just have faith" and "God's ways are beyond our ways" are unhelpful and conversation enders.

A good essay on this from an agnostic's perspective is here. If anyone wants to take a stab at responding to this problem, please do. I'd love to hear it.


13

Eliza,

Where do you find this "kind of abuser-victim relationship" in the Bible, "where God is the abusive authority who give us 'choice' only under duress." I think that would be the first place to start before helpful and thoughtful conversation can take place. Then I think digging into those Scripture verses would be a great benefit in identifying what doubts and issues you may have.

You are right. "Answers of 'just have faith' and 'God's ways are beyond our ways'are unhelpful and conversation enders." In my opinion, it is because these things are said without Scripture verses or references to back up those statements. They are just said on the whim. And maybe without love. And maybe they are said incorrectly too. They may not be godly things to say at all! [for example, the answer of "just have faith"]

Now if you have trouble with believing that the Bible is God's Word, not the Truth, etc.. than that is shaky foundation to stand on and it makes it so much harder to search through Scripture and examine it when you don't really believe what you are reading. I hope I am making sense here! It's just that if you have no foundation to stand on, than that's a way bigger problem then your doubt.


14

IMO,

I think we could reference Job for the "abuser-victim" relationship...

Putting "God's ways are beyond our ways" aside, I know the story of Job is one of the biggest hang ups in how God loves us. WHY would God do such a thing to a guy who was, in God's own words, a righteous man?

But seriously, reading Job in the context of scripture, Job was given exactly what ALL of us deserve...including himself. And his repeated plea was exactly what God gave us - someone to intercede for us on our behalf...because we aren't worthy of any good thing that is given to us. All good things are gifts given to us by a father who loves us. The absense of those gifts isn't evidence of a God who hates us, but simply one who hasn't given a gift yet...but in his time, he will.

No, still not very helpful...but its important to remind ourselves that we really don't deserve anything good that comes our way. That might serve to cultivate in us some humility and thanksgiving for the good gifts that ARE given to us.


15

-My first post was flagged as spam because of the number of links to BibleGateway, so here is the post again with the references in parentheses-


I do have doubts about the legitimacy of the Bible which arise from my doubts about God (after all, if there is no God, the Bible is worthless), but my present question deals only with perceived contradictions within the cannon and with real life, so I'll limit myself to those.

God created us with free will because he wanted us to choose to love him and not be "robots". However, our choice (Mark 16:15-16) is between loving God and burning up. This is duress by any definition. In fact, little of what the Lord requests is much of a choice (Numbers 32:15-23). Love me or die (2 Thessalonians 1:3-10). (Incidentally, if the highest form of love is that which is freely given, then we must continue to have free will in heaven, which would still allow for rebellion even after the end of days.)

God says he recognizes that we love (1 John 2:3-6) him by obeying (Leviticus 18:4-5) him. God's law mandated that disobedience to him resulted in stoning (Numbers 15: 32-36), banishment (Numbers 15: 30-31), and trial by ordeal (Numbers 5:11-31). (Interesting sidenote that the trial by ordeal applied only to women, not to men.)

In spite of this, the Bible frequently reminds us of how much God loves (Exodus 34:5-7) us. He only wishes our good (Romans 8:28), and yet the Bible actually encourages pain (James 1:2-4) for our spiritual development.

To me, this sounds extremely similar to an egomaniacal domestic abuser who continues to express love and affection for his victim while asserting absolute control. The victim may do something the abuser dislikes completely unintentionally (or with good intentions) and the abuser will respond in rage (2 Samuel 6:6-7). Naturally, the abuser views his rage as the victim's fault (Luke 23:41). The victim never leaves both because s/he is convinced s/he loves the abuser that he loves her, and if she leaves she knows he will kill her. And so the cycle of submission and violence will continue.

The actual God of the Bible seems very close to what I have described. If you say that God is "loving" but also "holy and just", there are instances (Genesis 21: 8-21) of questionable (Ezra 10:1-4; Matthew 5:31-32; James 1:27) justice. If you say that God's definition of what is "just" and "loving" is beyond what we can comprehend, or that whatever God declares is good is good just because He declares it, then those words have been watered down beyond usefulness and are meaningless.

Honestly, I am really really stumped by this one. It's hard for me to look at everything that God does in the Bible and say that it's "good". It goes against everything I, as a creature created in the image of God, know (Jeremiah 31:33; Romans 1:18-20) to be right. I'd love to hear you're comments.


16

Eliza,
Thank you for your thoughtful response. I really admire you for being open about your (spiritual) struggles and how you really dig deep with them.

From what I've read from previous posts, you say that you prayed a lot.. Do you think you heard back from God? If you asked God these questions, do you think He would reveal something to you?I mean, was there any "fruit" from those prayers? Or was it more like banging your head against the wall?


Anyway, the abuser-God thesis just doesn't stick with me. And I'm not sure why it's so easy for me to reject it. And I'm definitely not saying I'm better than you for not having it stick to me. And I'm not a theologian or even going to try to poke holes in your thesis or argument (whatever you want to call it :) )..

Haha I guess I really don't have a comment, just more of a question! How did you come across this abuser-God theology? I ask because I'm thinking it came from your background or something related to your experiences. I could be wrong. That's why I ask! :)

For what it's worth, my husband came from a very neglectful, abusive background, and he found grace, hope, and joy in Christ (along of course with salvation)


17

IMO,

From what I've read from previous posts, you say that you prayed a lot.. Do you think you heard back from God? If you asked God these questions, do you think He would reveal something to you?I mean, was there any "fruit" from those prayers? Or was it more like banging your head against the wall?

I couldn't really say if I've heard back or not. Is an idea popping into my head "hearing from God"? Maybe. Whether or not I think he'll reveal something isn't really important. Even if it feels like I'm banging my head against the wall, the wall might tell me something :P. Yes, I've told God what I think of him. We'll see what comes of it. It's definitely a process, not a transaction.

I grew up in a close-knit conservative evangelical family with a deeply spiritual stay-at-home-mom and quite the Bible education. I honestly don't think I'm extracting nonsense out of scripture with my perspective. Lots of well-adjusted people have come to these conclusions (only exacerbated by the more extreme fundamentalist Christians, naturally).


18

Eliza, I definitely don't think you are "extracting nonsense out of scripture." I'm sorry if what I said came across that way!

Your perspective/opinion is just as valid as anybody else's. Duh I know you know that :P ... I guess for me it's just hard to articulate what I would like to say and write it down... it ends up looking very random. I was just trying to get at the fact that we all struggle with certain aspects of our faith... but as Christians we have much hope in our struggles. And that for Christians, the one thing we must bank on is the Cross. And cling to that...


19

Dear Eliza,

Thank you for being so open and honest about your doubts. Perhaps it will encourage others to voice doubts as well.

I suppose this is a "just have faith" type of answer, and it may not provide any solace to you, but remember Romans 9:14-21. Perhaps this seems like a non-answer to you. I guess for me I just understand how limited my human mind is and just trust that God knows more even when I do not understand His ways.

Christina (14) wrote: "we aren't worthy of any good thing that is given to us."

Somehow I'm reminded of something I once heard by RC Sproul on his "Chosen by God" series on tape (you might be interested to give it a listen even if you don't agree...):

"One group gets mercy, and one group gets justice. Who gets injustice? Nobody gets injustice. Mercy is NONjustice. INjustice is nonjustice, but injustice and mercy are not the same thing. Mercy is perfectly good. Is there anything sinful about injustice? Yes, injustice is a violation of justice – it’s sin, it’s evil.

God gives justice to one group, and mercy to another group."

(not sure whether or not that is verbatim, but it's from my notes I once took [when listening to R.C. Sproul on tape] )

Do you think you might be wrestling with the free will view but unwilling to accept the view that man does not choose God on his own? I remember several years ago, standing in a Christian bookstore commenting to a friend: "I don't know if I believe in free will." And you know what? I don't. At least not with salvation. That said, I think I believe there is some degree of responsibility, because of Romans 1:20. I don't know how it works, but I do believe that God is ultimate in control and in predestination.

I don't know if this is of any help to you...but I hope so...

May God draw you close to Him!

And remember, what IF belivers were wrong? In the end, what would there be to lose? But what if we were not of the faith and were wrong? We'd have everything to lose...


20

I'm a lot like IMO in which I never struggled with accepting God as loving AND holy and just. The choice to love God or burn was never much of a problem for me. Ten years ago, I wouldn't have had much to offer than the fact that loving God was just enjoyable to me.

Now, mainly cuz there's not much a sheltered 14 year old can do to really harm herself, at 24 I have a better idea of loving discipline vs giving into disobedience without repercussion. I've experienced both...and from experience, I'll take a loving, holy, and just God over not choosing to love God. Its just that each commandment that God put down was there to keep us safe...obeying him out of love kept us from burning in ANY sin we committed. Choosing not to love God gives us free reign without being concerned for the consequences, only each commandment broken causes some pain to oneself and others... and burning in hell is only the extreme of what could happen on earth.

Think about a 13 year old girl going through an abortion and hating herself for it. The 24 year old man locked in a closet shooting heroine. Or the couple struggling with AIDS as they are pregnant with their first child...

I don't know...if God's commands set us free from that kind of pain and "burning" in this life, then I can't help but see his disciplines as merciful instruction - even if it is breaking out in boils for a season.

I think its legitimately part of our faith to go through seasons of doubt. A faith is only so strong in how well it stands against doubting questions...so of course it needs to face them at some point...


21

Hi IMO,

I definitely didn't read your comment as implying that what I was saying was nonsense. I guess I've just run into too many dismissive people and was being unnecessarily proactive :P. The thing about doubt is that unfortunately, it undercuts that very thing we want/need to cling to. Tricky.


Hi Rachael,

The thing about Pascal's Wager (your last paragraph) is that it applies to all other religions and gods too. If Islam is true, we actually have everything to lose by believing in Christianity! The same goes for LDS, Judaism, Eastern Orthodoxy/Roman Catholism, and to a lesser extent, Hinduism and Buddhism. If any of their gods are the true god and we're wrong, then we are in trouble. Paul himself said, "If only for this life we have hope in Christ, we are to be pitied more than all men" (I Cor. 15:19).

I think that the free will/ predestination question is a sub-question to what I'm really asking. To me, the most fundamental Christian assertion is that God is good. If God is good, you can trust that his mercy and justice is good and that his plan is good and you CAN "cling to the cross" and "just have faith" and all that jazz.

I don't think that pure predestination can coincide with God being good. If God actually creates humans who are predestined for eternal punishment and who have no chance to reverse that destiny, then he is not good. Just the fact that this all-powerful, holy God created the opportunity for hell is sketchy (and this argument is planted firmly in the "free will" camp). As Christians so often like to say, if you call a dog's tail a leg, that doesn't make it a leg. In the same way, if a person calls cruelty "good", that doesn't make it so. It probably just makes them delusional.

So, here is my dilemma. If God is good than we can just trust him when he says that everything he does is just. But if he is not good, than suddenly his whole plan is in doubt. From an earthly, human perspective, there seems to be a rising pile of evidence suggesting that God is of a Jekyll and Hyde quality. The problem of hell and sin are the main issues. If we do not have free choice, God is evil because he forces people into hell. If free choice is essential because God doesn't want "robots", then free choice must exist forever, even after death. Even so, when hell is a part of the equation, "free choice" is a questionable term.

Of course, the goodness of God is not something that can be proved, and I assume is a deeply personal revelation. I'm going to talk to my pastor about it tomorrow, to see what he says.



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