Gender Imbalance in Higher Education
by
Ted Slater
on Apr 8, 2008 at 12:39 PM
I'm not an expert in anything. I'm pretty good at playing keyboard in church, editing authors' manuscripts, and making chicken saag, but even in these areas there are people light years ahead of me.
I've been studying issues relevant to singles for years now, and was single for 36 of my 41 years. I may be able to act as a "mentor" to some singles, but the truth is that I'm no expert in this field.
Which leads to this post, and the one I plan to write next.
I just read over at Alex Chediak's blog that 58 percent of U.S. undergrads are women.
Call me a sexist, but my first reaction is to find that disappointing. Call me a sexist, but I believe that in most cases the husband should be the primary income-earner in the family, and that the wife should be free to stay at home with the kids. It follows, logically I think, that more men should be preparing for these income-earning careers by going to college. And that women should be careful not to bring on exorbitant school loan debt that may prohibit them from being able to carry out their dreams to be stay-at-home moms.
Oh, this blog post is so politically incorrect. A chunk of our readers are going to misinterpret what I'm saying, insisting that I believe women should be ignorant and that they are only qualified to be barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen. I'm not saying that. I married a woman with a master's degree, after all. Another chunk of our readers are going to say that I'm subtly characterizing men, who attend college at a rate less than women, as irresponsible gamers who are prolonging their adolescence out of fear of taking on responsibility. I'm not saying that either.
I am saying, though, that I find these stats to be puzzling. Sure, some of the non-college-going men may be attending trade schools or taking on careers that don't require college. And many of the college-attending women may be pursuing lower-cost liberal arts degrees that make them more well-rounded, that give them opportunities to meet their husband, that don't rack up the debt, that equip them to take on jobs while awaiting Mr. Right.
Or perhaps college has become less about education, and more about socializing. I'm not saying that's a bad thing.
But as a complementarian, rather than an egalitarian, something just doesn't seem right here with three women going to undergrad for every two men.
Can we talk about this puzzling stat? Can we discuss it here on The Line as non-experts without this conversation degenerating into complaints of "feeling offended"?
1. Patrick Chan had the following to say on Apr 8 at 12:46 PM:
Thanks, Ted. That's a good point.
Also, I wonder what the stats are at conservative Christian colleges?
2. Louise had the following to say on Apr 8 at 12:51 PM:
Of course this is a sexist and politically incorrect post.
But so what?
I believe this "college student gender imbalance" has been in existence since my own college days, and I am also in my early forties, Mr. Slater.
And I have spent approx. 28-29 years as a single person.
3. Amir Larijani had the following to say on Apr 8 at 12:54 PM:
I wish there were more women where I went to college. ;)
The boy/girl ratio was 5:1. It was worse in my major.
4. Susan had the following to say on Apr 8 at 12:56 PM:
Wow. Shouldn't we be encouraging all people to pursue exellence in their studies, men and women. The tone of your argument seems to indicate that a degree is more of hinderance to women due to the debt. How many of these women in the stats are married or are even in a relationship that could lead to marriage? Do not call women to forsake the plans that the Lord may for Him outside the home. As a woman, I find this blog entry insulting.
5. Loris had the following to say on Apr 8 at 1:02 PM:
I went to a small Christian college and the boy/girl ratio was 2/3.
6. Ted Slater had the following to say on Apr 8 at 1:05 PM:
Susan -- yes, I guess I am saying that: Many women who want to be stay-at-home-mothers find doing so very difficult because of massive college debt.
And yes, we should encourage people to further their education. All sorts of ways to do that, of course, including reading, taking online courses, attending community college part-time, waiting until the kids have moved out, and so on.
It was not my intention to insult anyone, Susan. My wife, who is a SAHM with a master's degree, did not find it insulting. Please try not to take it that way, but more as a conversation starter.
7. Christina (in green) had the following to say on Apr 8 at 1:06 PM:
Amir, you'd think the stats woulda worked in my favor in that career field being the 1 to your 5 =p
I wonder if women just get bored easier. Or they grew up wanting to be nurses and pediatricians...where the boys grew up wanting to be fire men and police men.
Don't know...
Women generally make better grades in secondary school? Women also get more scholarships directed towards them...now that's sexist.
The general white male has less going for him in attempting to get into a university these days. Most are dominated by the girls in the high school classes, not getting nearly so good of grades, while those girls take up the state funding and scholarship money from being smart girls...
Guy either have to rely on daddy paying the bills (those aren't the incredibly diligent ones) or having to pay their own way (which takes more time, money, and if they land the right part time job, might be unnecessary)...
I don't know, could be many different reasons =p
8. Amir Larijani had the following to say on Apr 8 at 1:06 PM:
Susan:
Depending on the severity of the debt, it certainly can be hindering.
And it goes both ways. (Guys can rack up debilitating amounts of student debt.)
I have a friend who is an attorney, who has debt in 6 figures. Wanna guess what that does to his financial prospects for the forseeable future?
And, while we are dealing with debt racked up in college, don't forget that--in addition to student loans--the credit card vultures are handing out bondage like candy when John or Jane walk into college as freshmen.
This is because the colleges LOVE the money they get from the credit vultures for the privilege of peddling their products to students.
9. Louise had the following to say on Apr 8 at 1:07 PM:
One more thing, I am not offended by this post.
:)
And in my opinion comment #1 expresses a very valid point. The reality of the situation is that most people in the US have a secular worldview and as such are less likely than biblically inclined people to follow traditional gender roles.
Now, I did not say that anyone on the blog has to like this reality.
But it is a reality nonetheless.
Again re comment #1 I would be interested in the corresponding statistics for US evangelical Christian colleges.
10. Christina (in green) had the following to say on Apr 8 at 1:08 PM:
Susan,
Please be careful not to generalize your personal feelings towards this blog post to apply to all women.
I personally have no problem with the ideas stated here =p
And I'm a woman with a degree in mathematics working for an engineering firm =p
11. Tammy had the following to say on Apr 8 at 1:15 PM:
What is there to be discussed here? 58% of undergraduates are Female. That is a fact. Nothing more and nothing less. And even though I will give you the chance to redeem yourself in your next post, I will say that yes, indeed you are a sexist, and not in a good way either.
12. Carrie (the original) had the following to say on Apr 8 at 1:16 PM:
I believe at my conservative, Christian alma mater, girls out-numbered guys for several years.
You know, it's my personal theory (based on experience) that in secular circles women take on the challenge of higher education because they can. I think men tend to shy away from it because they believe they have the rest of their lives to go for it.
Also, people tend to shy away from planning for the future. It is the "carpe diem" attitude they suffer from. They are all about seizing the moment and fulfulling their happiness NOW. Even in college, people put off declaring a major until they are halfway through college because they know they might feel different tomorrow.
13. Tami had the following to say on Apr 8 at 1:16 PM:
Ted -- I don't think your post is particularly sexist; it's just your observations. After all, it doesn't look like you're telling women *not* to go to college. My personal theories are like yours -- 1) college is so expected of us, that going seems the most obvious route; and 2) guys may be lining up for trade schools, as those jobs are (in many ways) more fulfilling and better paying, and the classwork is more applied and active.
I have an undergrad degree, and I'm currently in a "practical" Masters program. It's perfect for me all around -- I love the study, it suits me well, and the resulting career has flexible hours that will allow me to work part time in an enjoyable environment.
As such, at this point in my life, I wouldn't mind marrying a guy who went to school for the technical degree and went on to do a trade. My dad was very smart but was more "technically" inclined than bookish. He was more than able to support my mom and me. So it can be done.
14. Sarah22 had the following to say on Apr 8 at 1:22 PM:
As a woman I do not find this article at all insulting.
I do however find it sad.
I'd like to know in the Christian arena what the percentage of female to male grad school attenance is.
I have a hunch it's about the same.
The thing that saddens me is that the majority of Christian women seem so positive that college and career are definitely God's plan for them as opposed to early marriage and starting a family and they seem to get offended when you suggest the opposite. What scares me is that these values and priorities then mirror the world's values and priorities. Aren't we supposed to be different?
It seems that college and career paths are for the most part chosen at the beginning of adulthood and I believe women become much to set in those choices and whether or not they want to admit it, pride keeps them from re-evaluating 2 or 3 years down the road about whether or not God's will for their life is still extended education and the delaying of marriage and family (unintentionally or not).
15. Amir Larijani had the following to say on Apr 8 at 1:23 PM:
Louise:
I'd be willing to bet money (only a small amount) that the situation is similar at Christian colleges. In fact, it could be more pronounced.
I'd like to see it broken down by majors as well. And by year to show the trends.
16. Matt had the following to say on Apr 8 at 1:24 PM:
I think a large part of the cause is that the teaching establishment is dominated by females.
Boys are alot tougher to teach then girls so girls end up getting more favorable treatment esp. since the teachers(female) understand the girls and don't understand the boys.
So, the girls are getting better grades and are being encourage to pursue higher education. While guys are encouraged to go to trade schools or other avenues other than higher education.
17. Susan had the following to say on Apr 8 at 1:28 PM:
It is foolish to encourage women to continue to live under the "protection" of their mommy and daddy when they are adults and should be preparing for independence, hence adulthood. If that means marriage great, but earning a degree that affords the opportunity for financial stability is essential. Even if a woman marries, is there any guarantee that her husband will always be the provider (is Prince Charming immune to death or illness that would leave her vulnerable to financial instability?)??? If I ever have daughters they will go to college, no matter the sacrifice. After all, we live in an economy where education is all the more important. It is not the fault of women if men are not going to college in equal numbers. Why aren't you simply encouraging more men to attend college? I have no qualms with that. For the record, I am a complementarian and a strong conservative.
18. mindlab had the following to say on Apr 8 at 1:28 PM:
I've noticed this statistic before, and I think the explanation is fundamentally based in how we (as men and women) sin.Excuse my gross generalization, but try to bear with me anyhow:
Men (I have observed) tend to sin by being indifferent to their responsibilities (read: lazy); lazy people tend to avoid the hard work of school. Women don't tend to be as lazy, and do tend to sin by rebelling/enforcing their independence (think of Eve in the Garden); to this end they may be partly motivated to seek education so as to avoid being dependent on a male.
I know that through 6.5 years of higher education (ending with a M.S.) one of my greatest struggles was with my own laziness. I also know several female graduate colleagues who were there, at least in part, to establish their independence.
I think this difference in sinful tendency may provide some explanation for the education imbalance; men tend to be lazy, women (it seems to me) less so.
Thoughts?
19. Carl had the following to say on Apr 8 at 1:37 PM:
Higher education is overrated.
20. Josh had the following to say on Apr 8 at 1:40 PM:
A college degree isn't necessary for a successful life by any means. I think men are more likely to forgo the college experience and jump right into a career, which I think is perfectly legitimate.
In my own experience the women I know who went to college were able to use their education to further the use of the natural gifts that God gave them.
21. Christina (in green) had the following to say on Apr 8 at 1:41 PM:
Oh...
Maybe the reason for it is thus:
Leadership and taking initiative is not as easy for men as it is for women (hence the reason why it was spelled out so explicitly in scripture that MEN lead and WOMEN submit)
However, in today's society, where those gender roles are constantly under attack (even to the point of admonishing a young woman who thinks differently than the societal norm for not thinking for herself), men aren't being encouraged to actually take a leading role in society...and women aren't being encouraged to NOT take a leading role in society.
The roles have been completely reversed...because that's what comes naturally to each and every one of us. However, no one seems to realize that men flourish in leadership roles...and women get burnt out.
As I wrote here, God's commands and what is best for us isn't necessarily what comes naturally.
22. Chris B. (VA) had the following to say on Apr 8 at 1:42 PM:
For all of the good that my college degree has done for me professionally (that is, none), I can see why lots of guys are disillusioned with the college enterprise. I would trade four years of work experience for my education in a heartbeat. Too many school--even putatively "pretigious" ones--are just trying to make money without providing a quality education to their students.
The only true blessings that have come from my time in college are meeting my fiancee (which I suppose might not have happened without the gender disparity), and finding a great church.
23. P&P had the following to say on Apr 8 at 1:43 PM:
I think a large part of this has to do with upward mobility and/or economic stability. Although women with degrees still under earn compared to most men without degress, they are still in better shape financially with the degree than without one.
Education has always been the key to upward mobility in this country, which is why so many people want to come to the US to raise their families. Women also see the reality of being able to earn more through education and take advantage of that opportunity.
Another issue is the era in which we live. Previously, women did not have as many career opporunities as they do now. Fields like engineering and medical research were closed to most women regardless of their talents, and now they have the opportunity to not only get hired, but to move up the corporate ladder. When something wasn't available previously, it makes it more enticing, no?
Finally, being a SAHM might be an ideal for some people, but many women enjoy working, even after they have children. I've met and worked with women in the medical, engineering and journalism fields who would be loathe to give up their jobs for full time motherhood.
For the record Ted, I don't think you're sexist as much as you're living in an era that never truly happened. Women have always worked regardless of whether it was on a farm, in a factory or even at a religious organization the difference is that with the right education, women have more options open to them.
24. Annika had the following to say on Apr 8 at 1:43 PM:
I find it a bit puzzling that boundless is always going on about women not racking up debt in college, because they'll need to be stay-at-home moms later. If the husband has a huge debt, she'll still have to work to pay it off. Shouldn't everyone try to minimize needless debt?
(And hello, going to college does not mean going into debt! I'm going to manage to finish my entire PhD in cell biology without debt AND without my parents paying for my education. If you want an education work hard, get scholarships and quit whining.)
25. Amber had the following to say on Apr 8 at 1:47 PM:
I think the greater problem that contributes to these numbers is that people are getting married later in life, if at all. So, if women are staying single longer and without any marital prospects in the near future than they are wise to go to college, obtain degrees and careers for self-sufficiency. Married or single, people have responsibilities as adults--food, shelter, clothes, etc.
There was a time when young men and women ventured into adulthood together in marriage and now that marriage is delayed for so long, young men and women venture into adulthood/financial independence alone (of course we all have Christ). This means that women in their early twenties need a reliable source of income in order to support themselves. In this day and age where people are delaying marriage and even worse, many are encouraged to delay marriage, a woman would be foolish to not obtain a degree and a career suited to her liking.
It's unfair to chastise women for making smart choices in the face of very difficult times. I received criticism for entering a PhD program immediately after finishing my undergrad degree. "What will this do to your marital prospects they asked?" I didn't know the answer to that question, but I knew that I wasn't going to sit around waiting when I could be taking advantage of the opportunities the Lord placed in my life and where they would lead me.
Am I in debt from these degrees? Not really. The little debt I do have is from undergrad and will be paid off in a year. Am I conflicted by decisions to work vs. be a stay-at-home mom in the future? No. I'm a mid-twenties PhD ready and willing to be a stay-at-home mom when the time comes. Until that time, I'm thankful that the Lord gave me the opportunity to obtain advanced degrees so that I can provide for myself in a profession that I love.
26. Jill had the following to say on Apr 8 at 1:49 PM:
I find the attitude of this post a little puzzling because I am a woman in university and this is were God has called me to be. I feel like my judgement is being questioned slightly. Maybe I'm already sensitive to that because I am in a male dominated area(engineering) and I get that attitude a lot.
There are ways to go to university without goind into debt though, so that is a misplaced assumption.
27. Hannah had the following to say on Apr 8 at 1:56 PM:
I agree with Christina. I was not offended by this post. And I am a grad student in mechanical engineering and also work for an engineering firm. I went to school because I loved learning and especially math and physics. I wanted to understand better the world around me. I didn't go because I wanted a well paying job. I expect my husband to be the main breadwinner in the house (my fiance and I both agree on this - he doesn't want me to have to work unless I really enjoy my work). My fiance stopped going to school to work with a trade to avoid being in debt. He now owns a house and is very well off compared to most of his friends who are swimming in debt.
That may be one reason there are fewer guys... Maybe some of them have experienced the same thing, that they can earn almost as much money in a trade as they would with say a history or english or art degree...
I also think it has to do with college becoming more about socializing and not as much about the education. I can see that. For most cases an undergraduate degree shows only that you can stick with something for four years.
I'd like to see a bigger study of this. I think it would be an interesting report to read.
28. a sassy sister had the following to say on Apr 8 at 2:02 PM:
I think there is something deeper going on here, and it started looooooong before men and women set foot on college campuses. I believe it has something to do with what popular culture dicates makes a someone an "adult" or "man/woman".
some questions:
Is it possible that men and women learn differently and that educational systems have not really taken that into consideration when it comes to learning? If so, how does that play into the admission and retention rates of men in undergraduate studies?Please note that learning differences do not imply inferiority or superiority of intelligence.
Is it possible that men are not encouraged to learn because popular culture teaches the message that to be intelligent means to be a social outcast and/or have poor social skills?
29. Hannah had the following to say on Apr 8 at 2:03 PM:
And I wanted to tag onto what Jill (24) said. It hasn't been that hard for me to stay out of debt and go to college. You just have to make sacrifices, like living at home for the first two years of college and applying for scholarships. I have been very blessed because I am a woman in engineering and because of my grades with the scholarships that I have been awarded. Even if I wasn't getting scholarships, by working part time and attending a in-state school (not my dream school but it was good enough to get me into a top ten graduate school) I still don't think I would have had any trouble with debt. So there are ways around the debt, it just takes sacrifings some things.
30. Jonathan Wise had the following to say on Apr 8 at 2:09 PM:
My wife is a stay-at-home mom, of her own choice. She and I have equivalent educations (in our respective fields) and were married at 21. When we were ready for kids, we talked about who would stay at home. My career brought in more income, and my wife had a strong desire to be with the kids for their formative years.
All that said, I found this post more than a little disturbing... I was not aware that there were Christians who actually thought this way. I'd challenge anyone who seriously believes what is being espoused here to provide relevant Biblical backing for it...
31. Jenny had the following to say on Apr 8 at 2:13 PM:
I think you touched on it, Ted. I think there are more men going to trade school, starting apprenticeships, joining the military, starting a business, or doing something else that propels them into a career over college right away. Also more women take things like english, psychology, history, and art, which is fine, but often doesn't get you very far(not saying it never can) career-wise. So while I agree that men should be the main breadwinners, I'm not too concerned. I think some men just take different routes to their careers, which may be lazier, or perhaps just more practical.
32. Amelia had the following to say on Apr 8 at 2:24 PM:
According to the 1996 US Census Bureau a female with a bachelors degree makes a little more than $2000 more than a high school graduate male. http://www.maec.org/stats.html Seems like if women want to make it in the world they have to get a higher degree to support themselves or get married.
33. Aria had the following to say on Apr 8 at 2:26 PM:
Another one chiming in about college doesn't have to=debt - I went through 4 years at a private college, and 2 years of grad school (at a state school, but still) and never had a single school loan...
Besides - what do you want single women to do in the meantime? We can't not go to college just because the men may be dropping the ball? Some may be putting career first, but many of us have thought out careers that wouldn't preclude families - but still are single - What was I supposed to do, work as a clerk in a bookstore my entire life until I meet my husband? Why shouldn't I go to college just because the boys aren't?
I know this isn't the point of your post - and I understand the concern (Believe me - it would have been nice to have more guys on campus, LOL maybe then I would have found me one!) but I don't get the attitude that comes through that sounds like you're saying the women are in the wrong here... if anyone is in the wrong here, I would think its the men, but I don't think thats necessarily true either....is there not more women than men in our country anyway? how do those percentages compare to the ratio of men and women for that age bracket? We had many more girls than guys in my elementary schools - even in public schools, so how do we know its not just a matter of current demographics?
34. Sarah P. had the following to say on Apr 8 at 2:28 PM:
Ya, I would have to agree with lots of previous posters and say that the disparity is quite simple - women are not as physically strong as men, so that rules out many jobs that are quite well-paying and that don't require a degree. So in this day and age, women pretty much have to earn an undergraduate degree.
Me, I've known since age 10 or so that I wanted to write excellent stories. This means that I have to learn everything. :D Thus, a liberal arts education. I could have gone for engineering, but that would have been a waste of time, since I can usually learn math and science much more quickly on my own than in a class.
I've also always thought I would have a large family and homeschool my kids. I used to feel that painful "pull" in two directions between that and other personal desires, but I decided it would be a lot healthier to dive into personal desires now (so I don't have regrets later) and take each choice of commitment as it comes.
One thing that I think most of the people in the Christian patriarchal movement miss is the fact that up until the Industrial Revolution, families lived and worked together, both in and out of the home. Men and women raised kids together (in different roles, natch), and they worked together in their shops and on their farms. This is supposed to be a team thing altogether, the only question being, what is the overall goal your "team" wishes to accomplish? Is the purpose to "fulfil" each other in proper "roles," carefully delineated to fit our "natures" as men and women? Or is it to glorify God through raising up godly children, while simultaneously living out a mission?
For some people, God might make their mission the family itself, with everything else solely the means to support it. But others might perhaps serve as actual missionaries overseas, or maybe there is something else for their family team to accomplish.
35. Andrea had the following to say on Apr 8 at 2:28 PM:
It is well documented that in times of war the number of men pursuing higher education decreases. Therefore, I don't find this statistic surprising at all.
36. Dana had the following to say on Apr 8 at 2:33 PM:
"And many of the college-attending women may be pursuing lower-cost liberal arts degrees that make them more well-rounded, that give them opportunities to meet their husband, that don't rack up the debt, that equip them to take on jobs while awaiting Mr. Right."
You've made that sound like a good thing! It's not!!
How is a BS in liberal arts "lower cost" than a BS in math or science or engineering? As long as they're full time there's no difference.
College in general gives women a wonderful opportunity to meet their future husbands... but who wants to marry a guy with a Psych degree!? He won't be able to support her and a family with a degree like that. And "more well-rounded" usually equals "culturally indoctrinated". Don't know about you but I don't want that as a Christian.
I am a woman getting my BS (and maybe MS, later on) in Materials Science Engineering. Male to female ratios for engineers are usually around 10:1. Talk about opportunity to meet a husband! And a husband who is definitely going to be financially capable of sustaining a family.
By the way, after four years of college I have 0 debt. Yes, zero. I worked and saved almost every penny for four years to be able to pay for my own college education. When I graduate, I will continue to save as much as possible and when I get married I will continue working and saving ALL of my income until we have kids. Now imagine having $50,000+ in the bank by the time kids come! That's only one year's salary at a low starting salary for an engineer. Talk about a blessing to my husband!
Please, please don't encourage the young women who read here just to be liberal arts majors! You have no idea how much we want a few more women in science and engineering!
And I have learned SO much about Elohim by studying His creation! I read through my books and have to stand in awe of Him! He is so creative and powerful; He made all of this, made it so that we could actually learn about it no less! And this is the same God Who loves me!!? Who even died... for me!!?
Just please don't discount science/math/engineering degrees for women. Women should never dominate those fields... but take it from me, they never will! From personal experience, most women just don't have the mental leaning for the math and science involved or they just don't enjoy it. That's fine, but those that do ought to be encouraged to pursue a degree in those fields!!
37. Courtney had the following to say on Apr 8 at 2:39 PM:
Great Post! I was reading an article similar to this on NBC about Black women and college. 64% of Black college grads are women. In some schools 7 to 1 black women for every one black man. From my experience I can see this trend in my class. In my Marco class there are 5 black women and 1 black male.I believe in my heart of hearts that most women do want to get married and start a family.I know God will provide husbands for women, and that they will be leaders and priest of their homes. So we as women must continue to do our part, and lift up are brothers in Christ. :)
38. Katie B had the following to say on Apr 8 at 2:55 PM:
As a woman about to finish my second degree, (my first was an associates) and who plans to get a masters someday, I have no problem with the viewpoint of this post, I also think that Susan is right, except that I dont feel insulted.
I go to a school where women outnumber men, and many are there for reasons other than to learn, but my major (pasotral ministry) is mostly men, with a few women who are married or engaged to future pastors and want tolearn to be a 'pastors wife,' then theres me. One of the reasons I am afforded as much respect and concideration as I am, is because I am not in it for my MRS degree, but because I am there to learn and contribute the same as my male classmates, the future pastors wives are not so involved, and seem to have more of a frivolous intrest in the surface issues of the curriculum while neglecting the deeper spiritual and biblical study.
I go to school because I love it. I like learning and am proud of my accomplimenets, and enjoy the socializing. God has called me to vocational ministry, and I am preparing for that. I am growing into the person who is mature enough for life, marriage and parenthood. When the descision to stay home comes up, I will make it based on my circumstances, and of course Gods leading, at that time. Now I am preparing so that when that time comes I wont be hindered or forced into a descision to keep working full time because of debt, or be forced to panic about fertility because of age. I am fortunate, though, I have accumulated very little debt while in school.
The only issue I would have with people arguing both ends of the question here is that it is tempting to say that everyone should do one or the other. If I have children and quit my job, it will not be because the place for women is in the home and only in the home, but because that is what will be the best for everyone in the family.
39. Autumn had the following to say on Apr 8 at 2:57 PM:
when i was deciding on a college to attend, i noticed that females outnumbered males in almost every college that i looked at. the exceptions were usually schools known for their science/technology programs.
as far as debt and student loans are concerned, i'm going to graduate from college with a degree and no debt. the school i'm attending allows you to work to pay for your tuition. outside scholarships and some money we got when my grandad died will pay for the rest of my costs. every time that someone mentions student loans, i send up a prayer thanking God for giving me the opportunity to get a high-quality education, without the burden of debt.
on the subject of being a SAHM: i plan on graduating with a degree in print journalism. i would like to work for a magazine or newspaper for a while. i have begun to consider options that would make staying at home with my children (when they come) possible. one is that i will work full-time until i have children so my husband and i can have some savings. i also would like to get enough education hours to become a teacher, then get a job as a newspaper/yearbook advisor when my children reach school age. that way our schedules will be close to the same. my mom did that and it seemed to work. also, i've thought about buying a small-town paper and running it, so i could set my own hours, to an extent. i guess the point i'm trying to make is that you CAN find a balance. although the numbers make my dating possiblilities for next year look a little sad. but hey, it has to be better than a tiny school where you've grown up with everyone in your class, right?
40. Rebecca had the following to say on Apr 8 at 3:00 PM:
Gender roles are always touchy, but I don't think your post was sexist. College education is not the only way to develop your intellect and challenge yourself. Women can be intelligent and articulate regardless of the choices they make for/against higher ed. Besides, I know some very ignorant, uneducated college graduates!
As a teacher I would suggest that another cause for these statistics is the fact that traditional education is engineered to favor those who can sit quietly, cooperate in group activities and express themselves well verbally and in writing. All of these are more natural in girls than boys. By the time they finish secondary education, the girls are already ahead and many boys already resent what the classroom means for them: failure, difficulty and criticism for being energetic and restless. If I had spent 12 years in that environment, I might think twice about committing to 4 more year:-)
BTW, I am a single 29-year-old graduate student in liberal arts and have made my educational decision to limit my debt and allow me the freedom to pursue my interests most effectively.
41. Melissa D. had the following to say on Apr 8 at 3:07 PM:
I believe the Christian college I went to had a 3-1 ratio with women outnumbering men. I didn't have a single date during those years.
I graduated with a modest amount of student loan debt, but my college experience was wonderful and I wouldn't trade it for anything. I'm doing fine financially with an administrative assistant position, but it's not what this English major dreamed of. If I had been an Ed major (and secured a teaching position), I think I would have put a bigger dent in my loans and have been much happier, but I didn't realize that was my interest until a few years ago. It would be great to go to college on scholarships, but for most people, student loans are pretty much par for the course. As a college gradate, you'll make much more than those with a high school diploma, which should help pay down your debt more quickly.
42. Angela had the following to say on Apr 8 at 3:16 PM:
I notice that several ladies seem upset, as if Ted was saying that they shouldn't be going to school. I got the impression that he was encouraging more men to seek higher education rather than dissuading women from doing it.
One reason I think that less guys go to college is because our public school system is skewered (ha! I've been wanting to use that word) in favor of women. Guys and girls learn differently and from what I've seen (which as a home schooler, I will admit is not a whole lot) schools seem to cater more towards girls' learning style. Maybe because more teachers are women. But that leads to better grades and more scholarships for girls which would explain why more of them are in college.
Anyhow, I've been reading Boundless for about a year now, and it has been a great encouragement to me. Keep up the good work!
P.S. I guess I should explain that I am a girl and in college. But I'm hoping to be a full-time wife and mother in the not-too-distant future.
43. Marie had the following to say on Apr 8 at 3:19 PM:
Well, at my Christian undergrad school, there are at least 3 women for every 2 males...I know that the men are enjoying that ratio. :)
I am not offended by this post either, but I wish that it wasn't true. Kind of in response to Susan (#17), college has been an interesting experience for me. When I graduated high school, the thought of four more years of expensive education seemed downright scary, but no one around me said that it was okay NOT to go to college, and most implied that I would not fully succeed without a college degree. One person told me that even though I ultimately desire to marry and have a family, I still needed to have a degree as a backup in case my marriage went south. So, here I am in my third year of school, and I believe that this is where God wants me to be, but it is an odd sort of limbo between being in my parents' household and being independent. My parents have been able to provide very little for me ever since I began college, but I am unable to be fully independent as of yet.
Regarding the idea that college has become more about socializing than education: I can see both sides from where I am. There are students that care more about completing their degrees than finding a spouse (imagine that!) and those that seem to only be here for whatever fun they can have. Personally, I'm glad that I am not at a "party" school.
44. Ryan had the following to say on Apr 8 at 3:45 PM:
Well, feminism sure has comea long way. With 80 percent of the public school teachers being women, and (somehow) the idea that girls are being derrided in our "patriarchal" society (used to be, not anymore... some advantages and disadvantages to that, like everything) boys are no longer learning to be men anymore. In our society now, the only demographic that people can legally discriminate against is the white, Christian male. Heck, Christian male even. Being white I have felt it more, especially my years in the South.
Here's my take on why I am not in college. I work at a call center. I hate it--i was trained as a theologian at a Bible College but the Church hurt me in ways that it's not appropriate to put here. The Church is out to get converts now, not make disciples, as the Great Commision makes plain is our imperative. Because I can count on college to try to indoctrinate me with liberalism, and pay boatloads for worldiness, after Bible College i have opted to take CLEPP tests and earn college credit that way. Have yet to take those tests, as its been a long time trying to recover from Bible College.
I think the thing our generation needs is older men to take the younger men under their wing and be the fathers, be the brothers, since our no-fault divorce and broken home addled culture has made it impossible to be authentic, real, sincere Christians.
For me, college can wait till i can call myself a real man, can call myself a real Christian. I won't date because i can't offer a woman that. I won't continue "living life" till Christ is truly encountered-in person, not with a book.
College will not help that, but only hinder it. I can safely assume i speak for many there.
45. Kellie had the following to say on Apr 8 at 3:50 PM:
Ted, what you have women do instead of going to college? Like or not, we all need some amount of money to live on, as well as medical insurance. And I've found life much more enjoyable having a meaningful career serving others (and getting fairly well paid for it) as opposed to the retail/food service/etc. minimum wage jobs I did before I had my degree.
46. Jethro had the following to say on Apr 8 at 4:08 PM:
Christina (#7),
It's hardly sexist that girls get more scholarships if they are more deserving of them, ie by achieving better grades in high school. Shouldn't we be rewarding people based on merit, not gender?
47. Rachael had the following to say on Apr 8 at 4:24 PM:
Well, I'll just share the grad school gender experience. My program (for teaching ESL) was made up of mostly girls my first year - the total number of students may have been about 14 or 15. Anyway there were only 3 guys, and 1 guy dropped out so that left 2. My second year there were at least 4 guys, though, so the guy representation increased a bit. :)
Still...it was interesting. In the real world, though, there are lots of ESL teachers of both genders, and I'm not sure if there are more of one gender than the other.
48. S had the following to say on Apr 8 at 4:33 PM:
Jill - I have to agree with you. There is no doubt in my mind that when I went to college, God put me at the school, in the major, and in the dorm where he wanted me to be. (And I am an engineer too.)
Question - if college did not cost money, would this still be a 'troubling' trend. I'm not clear from the original post if the proposed problem is that women are getting an education, or women are spending money to get an education.
49. Rachael had the following to say on Apr 8 at 4:45 PM:
Chris B (22) wrote:
"I would trade four years of work experience for my education in a heartbeat."
--> Though I think some people on here are all about going to college to learn, I do think that some fields might be best with directly related classes and tons of experience and practicums mixed in rather than taking a ton of unrelated (directly) classes in addition to the few useful ones. I personally feel that I could have done without a lot of my classes. Of my various educational experiences, I think what I liked best was the 'real' stuff - either studying languages (through which you can indirectly learn about language teaching), actually teaching, and learning good practical tips -- lesson plans, teaching ideas (though I probably don't remember most of the ones I learned). I think the certification program I did was a lot better than many of the classes I took for my Master's degree. And then of course actually teaching and learning from other teachers is wonderful. Some of my education was good for me -- some of it helped form a better foundation than if I had no education. But I think a lot of the learning happens in the outside world or more useful seeming classes (but even with those, I've probably forgotten a bunch of stuff). That said, I am very grateful for the TA position which allowed me to learn from the practical experience of teaching every day along with the financial benefits (tuition & stipend).
50. Christina had the following to say on Apr 8 at 4:59 PM:
I'm 100% with Mindlab :)
51. Novagirl in VA had the following to say on Apr 8 at 5:02 PM:
I don't find this offensive either.
The only thing I can think of to explain the statistic is that women often (not always, but often) mature a little earlier than men. Perhaps that translates to choosing higher education to build one's future?
Single women have also lately been outpacing men in home ownership. From Bankrate.com: "In fact, single women have been out-muscling single men as first-time home buyers at a rate of about two to one over the past half decade, National Association of Realtors research indicates."
I say this not to say women are better than men, but to illustrate the point that women may mature a little earlier than men (that is, if we can agree that things like a college degree and home ownership can be seen as evidence of maturity).
52. Marci had the following to say on Apr 8 at 5:10 PM:
P&P,
well said! Can someone please explain to me why Christians on this site are so hardcore about women being stay at home moms?!? I don't actually think that being a stay at home mom increases your children's chances of success.
Every last child I know that had a stay at home mom has not completed higher education. So you'll understand why I'm so puzzled that people seem to think being a stay at home mom makes the children well-adjusted - where the proof? The people who weren't raised by stay at home moms often have great multitasking skills, more independance, and begin (and finish!) their higher education, it seems to me.
Now, I will certainly admit that any suggestions that my experiences are not representative of general tendancies are fair. I'm just going off of what I've seen (7 cases), and I don't think the picture looks pretty. Also, there's probably a good way to do the SAHM thing and a bad way - maybe the problem with the cases I know of is that their moms did the SAHM thing the bad way? I don't know.
What on earth is so wonderful about being a stay at home mom that authors on this site (correct me if I'm wrong - I'm being serious) seem to think women walk about dreaming of this state.
What happens if a stay at home mom decides not to do her education...and then her husband dies? I would say she made a bad decision not to prepare just in case....she may avoid some debt by not getting a degree, but what's the alternative? Rushing out to marry another man because she and her children need to survive and she has no education now that her husband is gone?!?
I'm serious - why does everyone think being a stay at home mom is the way to go? I'm honestly confused about how foregoing education to be a SAHM is at all wise or useful....
Please shed light, someone.
53. Kellie had the following to say on Apr 8 at 5:32 PM:
Also, as much as Boundless loves the idea of SAHMs, not every Christian woman is going to be one. And better a college-educated mom who can work part-time, than a high-school educated one who finds herself working full-time to help get the bills paid.
54. Kristina P. had the following to say on Apr 8 at 5:37 PM:
Amber, Jill, I am also female and in college. I don't think the point was to discourage women from going to college necessarily, but rather to point out an interesting statistic and discuss it. I too feel called to get a degree, but I found this very encouraging. Here's why.
I took correspondance courses for my entire freshman year. I got a good education from an A-list school, and saved alot of money too. What did everyone ask me? EVERYONE, with the exception of a few friends, asked "So, when are you going to go to college?". If college were all about the education, why did EVERY SINGLE PERSON, even complete strangers on the street, ask when I was going to get into "real college"? College is about socialization (anyone else tired of that word?), and guys probably think "I want a career; why spend four years socializing before-hand?"
Thank you, Ted, for pointing that statistic out. Its encouraging to read everyone's comments, too. I find it enheartening that people recognize this cultural trend of woman-as-breadmaker; to defeat the enemy, one must first recognize their weapons.
55. Susan had the following to say on Apr 8 at 5:40 PM:
Ted,
For your sake, I am glad your wife didn't find this post offensive. Yet, that statement makes me less likely to agree with your argument. It seems rather curious that you are urging women to do as you say and not as you do or you see that your statement should NOT have been so general. For instance, did she find scholarships, a less expensive program, or pick a degree in which can be easily paid off (and maybe provide the opportunity for your wife to work part time or in the home to suit her gifts and desires later in life?)?
General arguments that seem to indicate that college is more appropriate for men or too expensive for women (whom I repeat aren't even likely married) does not help Christians have a positive testimony to the world. The life of a Christian will look different, but selling women the guarantee that they will one day raise a family and should avoid debt is not in the best interest of these women. That may not be what the Lord has for them, and in that case they should be ready to live a godly quiet life in which they can live comfortably as a responsible adult.
I highly value the liberal arts approach and understand that its design is to provide a general education with the intent that students pursue a graduate degree to specialize (historical fact). That means picking wisely the appropriate program for the individual's interests and financial goals. Maybe a state research university will be the best fit and provide the best future employment opportunities (we certainly need more math/science minded folks to compete in this global economy). So, my conclusion is pick wisely, but don't ignore college itself. There are also junior college opportunities that provide an excellent education and allow students to save thousands of dollars. That is a great option for some to consider.
And I never said I speak for all women, just myself, as a woman.
56. Christine had the following to say on Apr 8 at 5:56 PM:
"And that women should be careful not to bring on exorbitant school loan debt that may prohibit them from being able to carry out their dreams to be stay-at-home moms."
The primary assumption in this post is that all women should simply dream of being stay-at-home mothers. Sorry, but when God calls us to be stewards of the gifts He gives us sometimes that means more than being "stay-at-home moms." In the alternative, ever consider that having a woman that is more educated and hopefully a more analytical thinker enriches & helps the children in the long run even where the woman is a stay-at-home mom?
57. BDB had the following to say on Apr 8 at 5:59 PM:
The OP wrote:
>>And that women should be careful not to bring on exorbitant school loan debt that may prohibit them from being able to carry out their dreams to be stay-at-home moms.<<
Thank you for focusing more on debt than education.
Recently I've been pondering the results of the California Appeals Court decision that parents don't have a constitutional right to home school their children. In other words, the ones who can do it for sure (if California policy changes) are those moms who have teaching credentials. You can get one with a liberal arts degree, at least a multiple-subject credential is quite attainable with a well-rounded undergraduate education.
Amir (#8) wrote:
>>I have a friend who is an attorney, who has debt in 6 figures. Wanna guess what that does to his financial prospects for the forseeable future?<<
And I'll bet he can get quite a visceral reaction from women when he tells them how much debt he has..."Um, are you sick?"
58. Chris had the following to say on Apr 8 at 6:46 PM:
A couple points:
1) Boys and girls learn differently. In fact, it's been shown that putting a boy/man in a classroom, making him sit for hours and takes notes, and so forth, can be rather counterproductive. Now imagine having done that for 12 WHOLE YEARS. (I have two boys. Trust me; it's true.) It's no wonder a significant portion of men would not want to go to college.
2) If debt is such a concern, and higher education is important for both upward mobility AND our national economic competitiveness, perhaps higher education should be free, allocated only on the basis of capability/qualifications. Several higher ed places are starting to realize this. Make higher education "free", and you solve a lot of problems.
59. Kelly had the following to say on Apr 8 at 7:05 PM:
That is interesting.... and I think people have posted some very valid reasons. Girls (in general) are more well-behaved during the schooling years --> girls are getting more encouragement in school which leads to greater academic achievement --> places at college.
Because lets face it, and environment where you sit down and listen is much more of a traditionally female role.
Think about Biblical times: men would work with their hands, their bodies, generally outdoors. No years of book study for them (unless they were to be a priest and those roles were few).
60. Nicole had the following to say on Apr 8 at 7:24 PM:
As a woman in the first year of a PhD program, I am certainly not offended as some seem to be based on these comments. I think it is rather disturbing that more women are going for higher education than men.
I think there are a few simple reasons. The biggest has been mentioned, marriage (often not of our own volition) is being delayed until we are older.
Honestly, I couldn't decide if I wanted to go on and get my PhD or get a more simple job and "wait" for a husband. But who am I to say he isn't in the city I moved to for graduate school, or the city where I'll get a job when I have my PhD? I don't know. My mom told me to work at preparing for both -- being a wife and mother, and providing for myself as a responsible adult. I am doing that.
In choosing to go obtain my PhD I also chose a field that would be friendly toward a family (especially if I teach at smaller, private schools) if I work when I have children (which is highly possible in today's society). There is also a great demand in my field for consulting work which I could do from home. I think many women may choose to get degrees in fields like teaching (which almost requires a master's to make a decent salary) and others that will enable them to work and be more friendly toward having a family. Many jobs without a college degree would not do this. Men do not take this into consideration as much. If they have to work overtime, be on call all the time, to make ends meet, that's okay. A woman doesn't want a job that requires her to work nights in case she does need to work when she has children. By getting a college degree we can hopefully make sure we don't have to do that.
Also, college and even higher forms of education do not mean incurring a lot of debt. I will graduate with my PhD at 25 or 26 with absolutely no debt and some money in savings. And my parents haven't paid a dime for college or living expenses except for providing me a very old car and paying the insurance on it. And we should encourage everyone to watch how much debt they are incurring in college education. Ever heard of working while you're in college? denying yourself some fun as well? I personally am very turned off by men who won't be able to afford a house until their mid-thirties because the vast amount of college debt and credit card debt (because they didn't work) they have incurred in college.
I actually went to an undergrad institution that was all female, but as a grad student I'm in the business school and see far more males than females. Probably because the jobs as an undergrad in business are far less family friendly.
61. Helienna had the following to say on Apr 8 at 7:43 PM:
I went to a small Christian college (approximately 1800 traditional students). When I was a freshman, the male/female ratio was about 1 to 3 or 1 to 4. When I graduated, the ratio had shifted to 2 to 3.
I put this disparity down to something Ted mentioned: guys choosing to go to trade schools or enter a career that doesn't require a four-year degree. From what I understand, guys tend to view college from a practical point of view: they want something that will help them get a good job. With the power of the four-year degree weakening consistently, it is perfectly understandable why some would choose to pursue other options.
For girls, however, I think college is more about the experience: enjoying more independence, meeting new people (including a possible future husband), pursuing a subject that interests them, generally broadening their view of the world. Guys, of course, frequently have many of the same things in mind, but in general, they view education from a more pragmatic standpoint.
I am, however, rather cynical about the possibility of completing a four-year degre on your own financing without any debt. My parents were not wealthy (meaning I got a ton of state grant money), I got several scholarships for musical and academic acheivement, and I worked a couple part-time jobs and put almost every penny I made toward my student account, but I still graduated with about $18,000 in loans, even with my parents making some significant sacrifices to help me out. I realize that my debt is pretty insignificant compared to what some people have, but it is still substantial and will take a while to pay off. I could of course have chosen to go to a less expensive school, but I wouldn't ever trade the solid but expensive Christian education I received for the kind of education undergraduates get at the state university where I am now pursuing my Master's. In some cases, a less expensive education just isn't worth it.
62. Michelle had the following to say on Apr 8 at 7:48 PM:
Great piece. I wish there were more guys when I went through my undergrad years. But that aside, our choices now speak volumes for our future and that of our family. And even the way we obtain our education (leaving formal education doesn't mean we stop learning and growing) will be a legacy for others. I think there's nothing greater than setting an example of selfless love that might require some sacrifice that's counter-cultural.
I'm thinking of all this now as a single female with a hefty undergrad debt and 1 semester of grad school almost over. When we think about worth and value, the question shouldn't be, is this schooling going to pay off, but is this the work that I want to have as a high priority. Where should I place my value of education given my beliefs, desires, and God's provision? It's a decision that requires a lot of prayer, thought, and serious attention to Christ.
63. Mike Theemling had the following to say on Apr 8 at 8:03 PM:
Here here Amir! Tech school with a 5:1 ratio + majoring in Comp Sci (also with Math) = not many dating opportunities (Christian ones are even slimmer pickings). There should be a law stating whenever you build a tech school a liberal arts school needs to be within a 3 mile radius.
Back on topic though, the 58% is one of those deceiving statistics that can be twisted in any way, shape and form to defend whatever agenda you want (too many women going to college, not enough women, too few men, etc.) Here are some questions that need to be asked BEFORE jumping to any conclusions or even gut feelings:
- What percentage of those 58% actually graduate?
- What are they (the women) majoring in?
- Does military help explain why not as many men are going (consider all men who enlist in the military as opposed to going to college)?
- What percentage of those women are from outside this country?
I agree that one possible answer as to "why more women attend college" is that at the high school level, women as a whole perform higher academically than men. And I believe this is tied more to work ethic than it is to ability. So mindlab's theory of "laziness" does have merit. Those women decide for whatever reason college is "the next step" and thus because they are more successful in high school manage to pick up more scholarships.
Another reason for the increase could simply be that Universities in general have been trying to achieve "equality" more aggressively than in the past. Thus they may accept more women for diversity's sake.
Regarding debt, why do so many people feel that A) College debt is a bad thing and B) College debt is even necessary? College can be an investment. You invest your time/energy/money in order to get an education. That education results in a degree which results in a well-paying job and pays for itself (hopefully) within several years. If the ratio of debt to expected pay is good, why criticize it? (Of course if you are spending $100,000 for a degree in say Journalism that averages about $20K-$30K a year than that would not be a wise avenue in my opinion). Also, haven't people ever heard of things called scholarships, the GI Bill, ROTC (military officer training), and this concept foreign to younger people called WORK?! (The military paid for my schooling and I'm thankful for it. They also paid for my Masters degree and gave me plenty of good experience). College is not a right people, it's a privlege. If you do go, go with a plan.
And I'd be curious to ask Ashleigh. Despite her not using her degree being a SAHM, does she regret going to college at all? Does she ever say, "Gee, I wasted all that money on and education I'll never use. I wish I had never gone and just stayed at home working as a (insert non-skilled worker here) and wait for a husband"? What about Candice, another SAHM who went to college? If you lament the notion that "too many" women (or not enough men) are going to college then ask yourself if you (or your wives) have helped create the statistic (which as I stated before, is so loaded and unhelpful).
64. Mrs. B had the following to say on Apr 8 at 8:11 PM:
A few comments:
1) I think we've done such a good job of giving girls extra encouragement to succeed academically that we've forgotten about the boys. We balanced things out from the time when women had fewer opportunities, and now our culture is seeing the opposite effect - I think it's even safe to say many men feel less capable than women because we've created such a girl-power culture. Women are encouraged to take advantage of their rights and be strong, while men are encouraged to seek personal pleasure under the guise of being "manly"... I know these are blanket statements and there are exceptions, but I think in general this is what our culture and the media encourages - just turn on the TV and see the role models shown on any sitcom.
2) You CAN be in college AND married, you know... I don't know why everyone assumes it can only come after college. I'm finishing my degree right now while my husband is working, then when I graduate in May (yay!) he will be in school while I'm teaching. Granted, we're pretty broke right now, but we get to be married :)
3) Ditto to posts 18 and 21. This statistic and its cultural implications can also be a reflection of our sin nature as spelled out in the garden. Thus, you have our imbalance of power where men who are called to be leaders are lazy and shy away from responsibility, and women who are called to be submissive (I know that's a dirty word but the Bible uses it so I will too) are power-hungry and usurp men's roles. **Not that women can't/shouldn't have powerful roles in society** (again, I made a blanket statement) but do you see the big picture? This trend can also be seen in the home, where the woman has all the responsibility of caring for the kids, cooking/cleaning, doing the budget, organizing the hectic family schedule, and running errands, while the man brings home a paycheck and think that's all he has to do. Is it really *power* if we're just making up for what's lacking because men aren't filling their roles? Maybe if us ladies stepped back just a bit men would be forced to take more responsibility and then we could have a truly even playing field... but that's not a very "girl power" idea now is it?
65. Nathan had the following to say on Apr 8 at 9:01 PM:
I don't know if anyone thought of this: My 1st thought about the discrepancy of men to women in college would be because of the number of men who typically enter military service after high school, hence having to temporary or permanently forgo college altogether
66. Hannah C. had the following to say on Apr 8 at 9:03 PM:
Hmm...Does this include community college data? If so, the stat could be explained by the fact that some women go back to college after their kids are grown in order to be able to get more education now that they have the time. Men have no need to do that because it is very rare that they are the ones staying home.
I think my rather conservative Catholic college has more men than women, but I'm not sure exactly what the stat is. I do think there were more girls than guys in the honors and AP classes I took in high school (economics, English, government, history..). It does depend on the degree program, though.
As for college debt keeping women from being SAHMs - that is a problem and one I could end up confronting, because I want to pay off my own college debt. However, I've also been told by a friend that some states require the person teaching children to have a college degree or teaching certification (I haven't checked the accuracy of this information). Either way, I think a college degree will equip me to better teach my children.
Also, while women may want to be stay at home moms, it's not practical in today's world to stay at home while waiting to find the guy you're going to marry. Unless you have a Mr. Right coming out of high school, which is rare, I think it's better to prepare yourself for a career in some way, whether with college or just working. No one should get into huge debt if they can at all avoid it, but a college education is beneficial for its own sake, not just for the sake of getting a good job.
67. Kimmy had the following to say on Apr 8 at 9:29 PM:
How many of these undergrads are mothers going to school part time? That would keep more women in school longer. If women are putting off degrees until later in life, these statistics actually make sense.
68. farmer Tom had the following to say on Apr 8 at 9:38 PM:
I find the attitude of this post a little puzzling because I am a woman in university and this is were God has called me to be.
Jill, I'm doing a study on knowing God's will for my high school Sunday School class, can you help me to understand exactly how you know God called you to exactly where you are? How did you know exactly what university, what major, what minor and the color of car God called you to have?
Can you explain it in such a way that my SS class will know exactly what they should do in the future?
For the record, I think you're making it up.
I don't think you can back that statement up from Scripture.
69. Andrew had the following to say on Apr 8 at 9:41 PM:
I am working on my masters degree in computer science, and I have heard rumors about these "women" at college. I think that I might have seen a "woman" before, but I'm not sure.
70. Daniel had the following to say on Apr 8 at 10:43 PM:
sexist! ;)
I've heard that the new gender-bias is somewhat due to a sort of affirmative action regarding the sexes, namely, that women have been encouraged more and more, and supported more and more, to/in going to college that they now outnumber men solely because men's numbers haven't received the same bolstering.
That's hearsay though, and may or may not be supported by reality.
71. Rebecca Matheson had the following to say on Apr 8 at 11:01 PM:
I responded to this article over on my blog.
Call me feminist but my first reaction is to find that disappointing
72. Katherine had the following to say on Apr 8 at 11:12 PM:
Christina (in green) #21: I must confess I find your views strange. Leadership is easy for women (in general?) and hard for men? Hunh? I am not leadership material at all, especially not for large groups. Neither are many of my female friends. A fair number of my male friends take to leadership like fish to water. Ability to lead has more to do with personality, training, and giftedness than gender.
Also: men flourish in leadership but women burn out? Have you paid attention to the mental/emotional landscape of pastors, mostly men? The burnout rate is high. Full time ministry has a way of chewing up people and spitting them out. That happened to my youth minister--a very godly man and a good leader, but youth leadership burnt him out. On the other hand, my supervisor, a woman, is doing very well leading our department. She cares for her infant born in October but comes into work almost daily, recently finished grant writing (a very stressful activity), and continues to give wonderful direction to our department. She continues to go strong at it.
I agree that what God commands us and has in store for us to do sometimes is not what we are naturally good at. But, sometimes it is. God gave us our gifts of personality and strengths and abilities--surely he does not waste these gifts?