270 Seconds of Beer by Heather Koerner on 04/11/2008 at 3:13 PM

Evidently, if you caught Monday night's NCAA basketball championship game (go Hawks!), you got a lot more than just an incredible game. You also got 270 seconds of beer commercials.

Not good, say about 100 college presidents. "Given the persistent problems caused by underage and excessive college drinking, much of it in the form of beer, we find it inconceivable that the NCAA's profiting from beer promotion during the telecasts of college basketball games comports with the best interests of higher education, sports, or student welfare," said a letter organized by the Center for Science in the Public Interest and signed by over 100 college presidents.

Especially not good since the NCAA's own policies supposedly limit beer advertising to 60 seconds per hour and no more than 120 seconds per telecast.

But does it really make a difference whether we see 120 seconds of cavemen carrying beer on a stone wheel rather than 270 seconds of it? I'm not sure. But it is refreshing to see college presidents at least standing for something.

It reminded me of a conversation I heard on ESPN's "Mike and Mike" show. On it, Mike Greenberg talked about how he attends lots of sporting events and has seen more than his share of absolutely inexcusable behavior. But, he noted, it was different when he attended an NCAA tournament college basketball game.

"We were sitting right behind the Kansas student section, and the Niagara student section is not far away, and there are a lot of obviously hardcore fans around us ...

And I got a little nervous because I mostly go to football games, and I've got a 6-year-old and an 8-year-old with me, and I'm thinking, 'Boy, you know, I hope this thing doesn't get--I don't know how I'm going to handle this if it really gets uncomfortable...

At which time, Mike reported that his friend returned from a trip to the concession stand and reported that no beer was for sale. Greenberg continued,

"Now I don't know that there is a direct correlation between these two things, but there was no beer sold at this game, and let me tell you there was nothing around us that made me even remotely uncomfortable ... Now I can't sit here and tell you that it was exclusively because there was no alcohol being sold at this game, but I don't think you would have to be Einstein to put those together...

I've sometimes said that, you know, 'It's the people, not so much the drunk.' Maybe it is the drunk. At least that day the not-so-drunk was kind of fun."

I, too, have been to my share of collegiate and professional games. I've heard some language at college games that I don't appreciate, but, overall, I'm happy to take my two kiddos to our local college basketball games. After hearing the language at pro games and having beer spilled down my back more times than I can count, I wouldn't let my kids step foot in a pro arena.

It's nice to see that some college presidents and, even, ESPN commentators can express some common sense on this issue.

And, on a side note, what's up with me and the sports posts lately? First, golf. Now, basketball. I think I may have to blog on hockey next, though I admit I've never seen any hockey beyond the movie Miracle.

270 Seconds of Beer by Heather Koerner on 04/11/2008 at 3:13 PM

Evidently, if you caught Monday night's NCAA basketball championship game (go Hawks!), you got a lot more than just an incredible game. You also got 270 seconds of beer commercials.

Not good, say about 100 college presidents. "Given the persistent problems caused by underage and excessive college drinking, much of it in the form of beer, we find it inconceivable that the NCAA's profiting from beer promotion during the telecasts of college basketball games comports with the best interests of higher education, sports, or student welfare," said a letter organized by the Center for Science in the Public Interest and signed by over 100 college presidents.

Especially not good since the NCAA's own policies supposedly limit beer advertising to 60 seconds per hour and no more than 120 seconds per telecast.

But does it really make a difference whether we see 120 seconds of cavemen carrying beer on a stone wheel rather than 270 seconds of it? I'm not sure. But it is refreshing to see college presidents at least standing for something.

It reminded me of a conversation I heard on ESPN's "Mike and Mike" show. On it, Mike Greenberg talked about how he attends lots of sporting events and has seen more than his share of absolutely inexcusable behavior. But, he noted, it was different when he attended an NCAA tournament college basketball game.

"We were sitting right behind the Kansas student section, and the Niagara student section is not far away, and there are a lot of obviously hardcore fans around us ...

And I got a little nervous because I mostly go to football games, and I've got a 6-year-old and an 8-year-old with me, and I'm thinking, 'Boy, you know, I hope this thing doesn't get--I don't know how I'm going to handle this if it really gets uncomfortable...

At which time, Mike reported that his friend returned from a trip to the concession stand and reported that no beer was for sale. Greenberg continued,

"Now I don't know that there is a direct correlation between these two things, but there was no beer sold at this game, and let me tell you there was nothing around us that made me even remotely uncomfortable ... Now I can't sit here and tell you that it was exclusively because there was no alcohol being sold at this game, but I don't think you would have to be Einstein to put those together...

I've sometimes said that, you know, 'It's the people, not so much the drunk.' Maybe it is the drunk. At least that day the not-so-drunk was kind of fun."

I, too, have been to my share of collegiate and professional games. I've heard some language at college games that I don't appreciate, but, overall, I'm happy to take my two kiddos to our local college basketball games. After hearing the language at pro games and having beer spilled down my back more times than I can count, I wouldn't let my kids step foot in a pro arena.

It's nice to see that some college presidents and, even, ESPN commentators can express some common sense on this issue.

And, on a side note, what's up with me and the sports posts lately? First, golf. Now, basketball. I think I may have to blog on hockey next, though I admit I've never seen any hockey beyond the movie Miracle.

Comments

[1. tom said the following at 3:26 PM on Apr 11:]

1

Definitely missing out if you haven't watched hockey. But I was at a hockey game between Colorado College and Denver U. about a year ago. These two teams are fierce rivals, and the beer flowed freely. Our seats wound up in the middle of a mass of DU fans, many of whom by the end of the third period were falling-down drunk. That ironically made them even more violent and obnoxious.

I then thought about the hour-plus drive from our arena back to their campus ...

Oh, and not going to any CC/DU hockey games anymore. Now, does anyone know where I can score some Avalanche playoff tix?

[2. BDB said the following at 3:32 PM on Apr 11:]

2

Well, if you go to a hockey game, try not to trip over the blue line.

Anyway, I noticed the same thing at various venues. When I worked in advertising, we had access to a few suites, including the Dodgers. Ironically, I don't drink, and I ended up in charge of ordering the alcohol. For one event, I got a call from somebody at UPS. This was for a concert. They were wondering if we wanted to split the cost of a luxury suite for the event. And they were kind of hemming and hawing a bit, so I asked, "You have a no alcohol policy, don't you?" They said yes. I assured them that it wouldn't be a problem, we could simply adjust for that event. I explained the situations to the various managers on our side and they were able to invite clients who that wasn't a problem for.

There was another time when the family-friendly nature of luxury suites really struck me. We had an extra ticket so I went to one of the Dodgers games. (Each suite holds 20 people.) That particular night, the sales person hosting invited clients who wanted to bring their kids. So we had a suite full of kids, a couple of them watching Casper on DVD inside the suite, and clients who had one beer apiece I think. It was quite pleasant.

But baseball in general is more family-oriented than, say, a Lakers game. That was interesting - suites full of 50-something guys and 20-something women...

[3. Rachael said the following at 4:30 PM on Apr 11:]

3

Hockey's definitely an interesting game to watch in a suburban town.

But...brawls should be outlawed. Not good sportsmanship, no matter how 'exciting' it might be in the minds of those avid fans....

[4. Nicole said the following at 6:16 PM on Apr 11:]

4

A couple of weeks ago I saw a couple get married during the intermission of a local hockey game (it's not a well-known team either). That was special.
Hockey is entertaining though, more so than basketball. I've only ever been to small, more local teams, but it seems to be pretty family friendly as well :-)

[5. Chris said the following at 7:49 PM on Apr 11:]

5

Heather writes:

After hearing the language at pro games and having beer spilled down my back more times than I can count, I wouldn't let my kids step foot in a pro arena.

I think it all depends on the culture of the fans and the venue's dedication to controlling bad behavior, not the presence/absence of alcohol. I've been to numerous Steelers and Pitt games and a Pirates game. If you want to see some fans get loud and pumped (at least for football), try it some time. During the games, people around me (and myself) were enjoying ourselves, having some beers and nachos, and having a good time. Yet I had no problems with foul language, inappropriate behavior, etc. I would have no problem taking my kids to these games (and I've already taken them to a few.)

Of course, part of this may be because the stadiums don't tolerate bad behavior. You can call a number on your cell phone and stadium employees/law enforcement will get there quickly if someone is getting out of hand. I've seen people removed for essentially being jerks, and I've even seen the employees tell people to close up their umbrellas so as not to block other people's views.

And getting wound up about beer advertising will not solve any problems. It's a cultural issue. If we treated alcohol properly in our society, we wouldn't have to worry about stuff like this. Perhaps these presidents and directors should look at innovative programs that teach students how to properly consume and appreciate alcoholic beverage *as adults*. They seem to be more effective (and more sane, IMHO). Harping on beer advertising has the same effectiveness as "just say no" has on drug use.

[6. single certain girl said the following at 8:05 PM on Apr 11:]

6

awww, come on. the fights are a part of the sport. they're generally not 'brawls' anyway. baseball has brawls. hockey has fights.

it's a part of the game, just like a great goal, a great assist, or a great hit. they generally don't really hurt each other (they have so much padding on) and even if they do it's no worse than boxing or Ultimate fighting.

PLEASE, heather, blog on hockey. the sport needs all the help it can get right now in the states.

go cyclones! they're in the ECHL playoffs this weekend. ¥ay!

[7. Kaybee said the following at 11:41 AM on Apr 12:]

7

It seems that most people think that they need to be intoxicated to enjoy a sporting event. I don't get it...I want to be fully aware of what's going on while I watch my playoff hockey games. But then, the idea of being in a drunken haze has never really appealed to me no matter what the circumstances are.

Oh, and if the fighting is keeping you from watching hockey, check out the Stanley Cup playoffs. Very little to no fighting and probably the best, most intense competition you've ever seen. You'll be hooked. :)

[8. JBM said the following at 7:26 PM on Apr 12:]

8

I would like to commend your post on this matter, as it directly relates to me. I myself am a college student, so I understand why these universities are apprehensive towards beer advertising. The main concern of these colleges is to try and prevent students from consuming alcohol. Beer, known as the most popular alcoholic beverage amongst college students, is consumed more than any other beverage during sporting events, including college and pro. Most beer ads leave a lasting impression on the viewer, such as the recent "Dude" campaigns for Bud Light, but remembering these ads does not mean that students will go buy that brand of beer. Personally I believe the decision to limit the amount of beer ads during NCAA sporting events is appropriate. How do you think the NCAA should handle this situation? The NCAA profits greatly from beer promotion, so do you think they will simply increase ad prices or end up increasing the amount of time allowed for beer ads? I believe that the NCAA will do nothing, at least until the current contract with beer companies ends. Even with the increase of alcohol related incidents (such as the seventy thousand sexual assaults and seventeen hundred deaths) on college campuses each year, there continues to be nothing or very little done to prevent them.

As a frequent attendee of sports games (mainly professional hockey and college football), I am aware of unruly fans that consume too much alcohol. I enjoy going to all sporting events, and most of the time I am not affected by these fans. There are some instances, however, when they just get out of hand and take it too far. If someone wants to drink in the presence of their own home, that is fine with me. I do not understand why people want to mix their drunkenness with sporting events and bother surrounding fans. Even though beer is not sold at most college stadiums and arenas, it does not prevent students from drinking before games. You mentioned having beer spilled down your back too many times to count, which is funny because there have been many instances when I have witnessed this occur. I often wonder how these guys even drive home after the game. What if they decide to drive home drunk? This inexcusable behavior is why some people do not even deserve the right to drink alcohol. I appreciate your opinion on this significant issue, and I value any feedback you would like to offer.

[9. Bridget said the following at 8:09 PM on Apr 13:]

9

In re comment # 6 ...

Fighting is emphatically not part of the game of hockey! Hockey is a team sport-- when one hothead decides to pick a fight it's about him being mad it costs the team as a whole (the extremely rare exception would be when one player comes to the defense of a teammate who is being pounded by a larger guy). Fighting takes time from the real art of hockey-- stickhandling, skating, strategy, and, of course, checking.

Give me a good clean check over a five-minute penalty any day.

[10. Leah said the following at 8:45 PM on Apr 13:]

10

univeristy/college sports is nowhere near as big in Australia as it is in the US. From my understanding, US cities and towns get fully behind their college teams. In Australia, you'd only have actual students and families of students attend the matches. I don't know anyone who's attended a uni sports match as an observer, and they aren't advertised on TV. The only games the general public gets right behind are professional ones.

That said, I'm never terribly disappointed with crowd behaviour at our home location. The worst behaviour I've really come across is just bad sportsmanship rather than anything alcohol-fuelled. I usually only attend Rugby League matches, and while there's alcohol around and people getting drunk, they're usually either a) under the stands where the alcohol is being sold and not with the general crowd or b) in the crowd and not being any more rowdy than the completely sober fan behind them.

And sure there's some bad language sometimes, but no worse than you'd hear in your average high school. (Actually it's usually the teenagers you hear the worst language coming from, and not the adults).

HOWEVER, there are one or two rugby league teams whose home venues are notorious for bad crowd behaviour. I think Chris is right when he says it really depends on the venue and its crowd control. While the one or two teams I just referenced have really cleaned up their act in the last season, I think the type of behaviour blogged about here is very dependent upon the venue itself.

(I was recently at an international cricket match between Australia and New Zealand, where the 'wet' area [alcohol allowed] provided a bit of entertainment- the worst they did was throw a beach ball around [banned by the Australian Cricket Board] and start a few [very successful] mexican waves [also banned by the ACB]. Got the initiators thrown out of the stadium but it was good fun for us ;P)

[11. Kenya said the following at 11:53 AM on Apr 14:]

11

Back when I graduated from DU, we were known as the Pioneers!! Good to know the rivalry's still there. I have fond memories of hockey games in the old athletics center, before the new arenas were put in - although I must admit the new facilities are quite nice.

Hockey was something I got introduced to in Colorado (back when the Avs won the Stanley Cup), and I'm still amazed at what people can do with ice and a pair of skates.

Thanks for bringing back some great memories!

[12. BDB said the following at 3:25 PM on Apr 14:]

12

KayBee (#7) wrote:

>>Oh, and if the fighting is keeping you from watching hockey, check out the Stanley Cup playoffs. ...You'll be hooked. :)<<

Yes, that's how I got started. I knew a guy from Montreal, his girlfriend was from Montana...and I moved into an apartment where the cable was still working. I was surprised at how little fighting there was during the whole series. It was explained that was more in the minor leagues.

But the checking...I'm convinced that any "sport" where each side scores more than five points really makes it too easy...

[13. Leah said the following at 8:23 PM on Apr 14:]

13

BDB,

If a team were scoring more than 5 points in a sport where the average scores were 2 or 3, then yes, someone is making something too easy!!

But if a team was scoring 5 points in a game where the average score is around 30, I'd be of the opinion they were playing a very difficult game.

(Eg. in Rugby league a try is 4 points, if you convert the try that makes 6 points. So you only need to score once to get 6 points. In a game where a team can often get 6 or more tries, to get only 1 or 2 means both teams are playing pretty hard!)

[14. KayBee said the following at 2:00 PM on Apr 15:]

14

BDB (#12), the playoffs are what got me into watching hockey too. Although, now that I'm attached to one particular team I prefer the regular season. The playoffs are too nerve-wracking! I'm currently living in constant fear of triple overtime defeats.

Poor Heather, we've kinda hijacked her post with all the hockey talk... Us hockey fans are a passionate group :) It makes me think we need a Christian-friendly hockey blog/message board. I live in an area with very few hockey fans so to have any discussion I go to the internet. Unfortunately you have to wade through quite a bit of filth to get any level-headed, clean posts. It's kinda like going to the game and getting beer and foul language spilled all over you. I'm starting to think it's not worth it.

[15. BDB said the following at 10:01 PM on Apr 15:]

15

KayBee wrote:

>>It's kinda like going to the game and getting beer and foul language spilled all over you. I'm starting to think it's not worth it. <<

Well, that's the problem with getting the good seats from work - once you realize how nice they are, the spilling-beer section just doesn't seem the same.

I was appreciative of the tickets that were in seats on the same level as the luxury seats. Great view of the rink - very nice people in the seats nearby. Unfortunately, since I usually got a parking pass, at first I didn't know where the regular parking was. It was unsettling to spend $20 to park because I couldn't figure out how to get into the parking structure.

I was across the street from the suite entrance, though. It would have been a quick in-and-out...except that I got in the wrong lane and ended up in Boyle Heights...I just kept driving East until I hit another freeway to find my way home...

[16. David said the following at 7:54 AM on Apr 16:]

16

It is exciting to see that there are hockey fans south of the border! Interesting that most of them are in Colorado.

The playoffs are definitely the best part of hockey, but not just the Stanley Cup but also the Olympic hockey matches are a lot of fun to watch, and both men and womens Olympic hockey!

I'm sorry but I'm going to have to disagree with everyone who thinks that fighting isn't a part of hockey. It just adds an exciting element, not if it happens all the time, but a good fight once perhaps twice a game is a good go.

It's actually interesting because I go to a Bible College that has a hockey team, and inevitably this conversation comes up all the time. Should there be fighting on a Christian hockey team? As far as I know (based on a couple of conversations), their coach tells them not to start anything, but they should finish it and stand up for each other. This is also because other teams will try to take advantage of the fact that they are Christian, and therefore shouldn't "fight".

[17. Rachael said the following at 4:15 PM on Apr 16:]

17

David (16),

"their coach tells them not to start anything, but they should finish it and stand up for each other. This is also because other teams will try to take advantage of the fact that they are Christian, and therefore shouldn't "fight". "

-->Interesting. I'm not a hockey player, so perhaps I shouldn't judge what they do, but...what about...

Luke 6:29

"If someone strikes you on one cheek, turn to him the other also."

Hockey aside, I guess I don't know when it might be 'okay' to fight back...I suppose if someone were attacking me and I couldn't get away I'd fight back (if I had the ability) to protect myself...

[18. David said the following at 7:51 AM on Apr 17:]

18

"If someone strikes you on one cheek, turn to him the other also."

This is often thrown in their faces on the ice by their opponents. I don't think that's an invitation to let people walk all over them. I know they don't often get into fights. I know also they don't start the fights. This is probably beyond my capability to comment on fully also, as I have never actually played hockey, except for pond hockey.

This is also a perpetual discussion that gets revisited annually on campus at least once. I would imagine we could throw around our ideas but more then likely it would be better to hear from someone who actually plays league hockey and knows what its like.

[1. tom said the following at 3:26 PM on Apr 11:]

1

Definitely missing out if you haven't watched hockey. But I was at a hockey game between Colorado College and Denver U. about a year ago. These two teams are fierce rivals, and the beer flowed freely. Our seats wound up in the middle of a mass of DU fans, many of whom by the end of the third period were falling-down drunk. That ironically made them even more violent and obnoxious.

I then thought about the hour-plus drive from our arena back to their campus ...

Oh, and not going to any CC/DU hockey games anymore. Now, does anyone know where I can score some Avalanche playoff tix?

[2. BDB said the following at 3:32 PM on Apr 11:]

2

Well, if you go to a hockey game, try not to trip over the blue line.

Anyway, I noticed the same thing at various venues. When I worked in advertising, we had access to a few suites, including the Dodgers. Ironically, I don't drink, and I ended up in charge of ordering the alcohol. For one event, I got a call from somebody at UPS. This was for a concert. They were wondering if we wanted to split the cost of a luxury suite for the event. And they were kind of hemming and hawing a bit, so I asked, "You have a no alcohol policy, don't you?" They said yes. I assured them that it wouldn't be a problem, we could simply adjust for that event. I explained the situations to the various managers on our side and they were able to invite clients who that wasn't a problem for.

There was another time when the family-friendly nature of luxury suites really struck me. We had an extra ticket so I went to one of the Dodgers games. (Each suite holds 20 people.) That particular night, the sales person hosting invited clients who wanted to bring their kids. So we had a suite full of kids, a couple of them watching Casper on DVD inside the suite, and clients who had one beer apiece I think. It was quite pleasant.

But baseball in general is more family-oriented than, say, a Lakers game. That was interesting - suites full of 50-something guys and 20-something women...

[3. Rachael said the following at 4:30 PM on Apr 11:]

3

Hockey's definitely an interesting game to watch in a suburban town.

But...brawls should be outlawed. Not good sportsmanship, no matter how 'exciting' it might be in the minds of those avid fans....

[4. Nicole said the following at 6:16 PM on Apr 11:]

4

A couple of weeks ago I saw a couple get married during the intermission of a local hockey game (it's not a well-known team either). That was special.
Hockey is entertaining though, more so than basketball. I've only ever been to small, more local teams, but it seems to be pretty family friendly as well :-)

[5. Chris said the following at 7:49 PM on Apr 11:]

5

Heather writes:

After hearing the language at pro games and having beer spilled down my back more times than I can count, I wouldn't let my kids step foot in a pro arena.

I think it all depends on the culture of the fans and the venue's dedication to controlling bad behavior, not the presence/absence of alcohol. I've been to numerous Steelers and Pitt games and a Pirates game. If you want to see some fans get loud and pumped (at least for football), try it some time. During the games, people around me (and myself) were enjoying ourselves, having some beers and nachos, and having a good time. Yet I had no problems with foul language, inappropriate behavior, etc. I would have no problem taking my kids to these games (and I've already taken them to a few.)

Of course, part of this may be because the stadiums don't tolerate bad behavior. You can call a number on your cell phone and stadium employees/law enforcement will get there quickly if someone is getting out of hand. I've seen people removed for essentially being jerks, and I've even seen the employees tell people to close up their umbrellas so as not to block other people's views.

And getting wound up about beer advertising will not solve any problems. It's a cultural issue. If we treated alcohol properly in our society, we wouldn't have to worry about stuff like this. Perhaps these presidents and directors should look at innovative programs that teach students how to properly consume and appreciate alcoholic beverage *as adults*. They seem to be more effective (and more sane, IMHO). Harping on beer advertising has the same effectiveness as "just say no" has on drug use.

[6. single certain girl said the following at 8:05 PM on Apr 11:]

6

awww, come on. the fights are a part of the sport. they're generally not 'brawls' anyway. baseball has brawls. hockey has fights.

it's a part of the game, just like a great goal, a great assist, or a great hit. they generally don't really hurt each other (they have so much padding on) and even if they do it's no worse than boxing or Ultimate fighting.

PLEASE, heather, blog on hockey. the sport needs all the help it can get right now in the states.

go cyclones! they're in the ECHL playoffs this weekend. ¥ay!

[7. Kaybee said the following at 11:41 AM on Apr 12:]

7

It seems that most people think that they need to be intoxicated to enjoy a sporting event. I don't get it...I want to be fully aware of what's going on while I watch my playoff hockey games. But then, the idea of being in a drunken haze has never really appealed to me no matter what the circumstances are.

Oh, and if the fighting is keeping you from watching hockey, check out the Stanley Cup playoffs. Very little to no fighting and probably the best, most intense competition you've ever seen. You'll be hooked. :)

[8. JBM said the following at 7:26 PM on Apr 12:]

8

I would like to commend your post on this matter, as it directly relates to me. I myself am a college student, so I understand why these universities are apprehensive towards beer advertising. The main concern of these colleges is to try and prevent students from consuming alcohol. Beer, known as the most popular alcoholic beverage amongst college students, is consumed more than any other beverage during sporting events, including college and pro. Most beer ads leave a lasting impression on the viewer, such as the recent "Dude" campaigns for Bud Light, but remembering these ads does not mean that students will go buy that brand of beer. Personally I believe the decision to limit the amount of beer ads during NCAA sporting events is appropriate. How do you think the NCAA should handle this situation? The NCAA profits greatly from beer promotion, so do you think they will simply increase ad prices or end up increasing the amount of time allowed for beer ads? I believe that the NCAA will do nothing, at least until the current contract with beer companies ends. Even with the increase of alcohol related incidents (such as the seventy thousand sexual assaults and seventeen hundred deaths) on college campuses each year, there continues to be nothing or very little done to prevent them.

As a frequent attendee of sports games (mainly professional hockey and college football), I am aware of unruly fans that consume too much alcohol. I enjoy going to all sporting events, and most of the time I am not affected by these fans. There are some instances, however, when they just get out of hand and take it too far. If someone wants to drink in the presence of their own home, that is fine with me. I do not understand why people want to mix their drunkenness with sporting events and bother surrounding fans. Even though beer is not sold at most college stadiums and arenas, it does not prevent students from drinking before games. You mentioned having beer spilled down your back too many times to count, which is funny because there have been many instances when I have witnessed this occur. I often wonder how these guys even drive home after the game. What if they decide to drive home drunk? This inexcusable behavior is why some people do not even deserve the right to drink alcohol. I appreciate your opinion on this significant issue, and I value any feedback you would like to offer.

[9. Bridget said the following at 8:09 PM on Apr 13:]

9

In re comment # 6 ...

Fighting is emphatically not part of the game of hockey! Hockey is a team sport-- when one hothead decides to pick a fight it's about him being mad it costs the team as a whole (the extremely rare exception would be when one player comes to the defense of a teammate who is being pounded by a larger guy). Fighting takes time from the real art of hockey-- stickhandling, skating, strategy, and, of course, checking.

Give me a good clean check over a five-minute penalty any day.

[10. Leah said the following at 8:45 PM on Apr 13:]

10

univeristy/college sports is nowhere near as big in Australia as it is in the US. From my understanding, US cities and towns get fully behind their college teams. In Australia, you'd only have actual students and families of students attend the matches. I don't know anyone who's attended a uni sports match as an observer, and they aren't advertised on TV. The only games the general public gets right behind are professional ones.

That said, I'm never terribly disappointed with crowd behaviour at our home location. The worst behaviour I've really come across is just bad sportsmanship rather than anything alcohol-fuelled. I usually only attend Rugby League matches, and while there's alcohol around and people getting drunk, they're usually either a) under the stands where the alcohol is being sold and not with the general crowd or b) in the crowd and not being any more rowdy than the completely sober fan behind them.

And sure there's some bad language sometimes, but no worse than you'd hear in your average high school. (Actually it's usually the teenagers you hear the worst language coming from, and not the adults).

HOWEVER, there are one or two rugby league teams whose home venues are notorious for bad crowd behaviour. I think Chris is right when he says it really depends on the venue and its crowd control. While the one or two teams I just referenced have really cleaned up their act in the last season, I think the type of behaviour blogged about here is very dependent upon the venue itself.

(I was recently at an international cricket match between Australia and New Zealand, where the 'wet' area [alcohol allowed] provided a bit of entertainment- the worst they did was throw a beach ball around [banned by the Australian Cricket Board] and start a few [very successful] mexican waves [also banned by the ACB]. Got the initiators thrown out of the stadium but it was good fun for us ;P)

[11. Kenya said the following at 11:53 AM on Apr 14:]

11

Back when I graduated from DU, we were known as the Pioneers!! Good to know the rivalry's still there. I have fond memories of hockey games in the old athletics center, before the new arenas were put in - although I must admit the new facilities are quite nice.

Hockey was something I got introduced to in Colorado (back when the Avs won the Stanley Cup), and I'm still amazed at what people can do with ice and a pair of skates.

Thanks for bringing back some great memories!

[12. BDB said the following at 3:25 PM on Apr 14:]

12

KayBee (#7) wrote:

>>Oh, and if the fighting is keeping you from watching hockey, check out the Stanley Cup playoffs. ...You'll be hooked. :)<<

Yes, that's how I got started. I knew a guy from Montreal, his girlfriend was from Montana...and I moved into an apartment where the cable was still working. I was surprised at how little fighting there was during the whole series. It was explained that was more in the minor leagues.

But the checking...I'm convinced that any "sport" where each side scores more than five points really makes it too easy...

[13. Leah said the following at 8:23 PM on Apr 14:]

13

BDB,

If a team were scoring more than 5 points in a sport where the average scores were 2 or 3, then yes, someone is making something too easy!!

But if a team was scoring 5 points in a game where the average score is around 30, I'd be of the opinion they were playing a very difficult game.

(Eg. in Rugby league a try is 4 points, if you convert the try that makes 6 points. So you only need to score once to get 6 points. In a game where a team can often get 6 or more tries, to get only 1 or 2 means both teams are playing pretty hard!)

[14. KayBee said the following at 2:00 PM on Apr 15:]

14

BDB (#12), the playoffs are what got me into watching hockey too. Although, now that I'm attached to one particular team I prefer the regular season. The playoffs are too nerve-wracking! I'm currently living in constant fear of triple overtime defeats.

Poor Heather, we've kinda hijacked her post with all the hockey talk... Us hockey fans are a passionate group :) It makes me think we need a Christian-friendly hockey blog/message board. I live in an area with very few hockey fans so to have any discussion I go to the internet. Unfortunately you have to wade through quite a bit of filth to get any level-headed, clean posts. It's kinda like going to the game and getting beer and foul language spilled all over you. I'm starting to think it's not worth it.

[15. BDB said the following at 10:01 PM on Apr 15:]

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KayBee wrote:

>>It's kinda like going to the game and getting beer and foul language spilled all over you. I'm starting to think it's not worth it. <<

Well, that's the problem with getting the good seats from work - once you realize how nice they are, the spilling-beer section just doesn't seem the same.

I was appreciative of the tickets that were in seats on the same level as the luxury seats. Great view of the rink - very nice people in the seats nearby. Unfortunately, since I usually got a parking pass, at first I didn't know where the regular parking was. It was unsettling to spend $20 to park because I couldn't figure out how to get into the parking structure.

I was across the street from the suite entrance, though. It would have been a quick in-and-out...except that I got in the wrong lane and ended up in Boyle Heights...I just kept driving East until I hit another freeway to find my way home...

[16. David said the following at 7:54 AM on Apr 16:]

16

It is exciting to see that there are hockey fans south of the border! Interesting that most of them are in Colorado.

The playoffs are definitely the best part of hockey, but not just the Stanley Cup but also the Olympic hockey matches are a lot of fun to watch, and both men and womens Olympic hockey!

I'm sorry but I'm going to have to disagree with everyone who thinks that fighting isn't a part of hockey. It just adds an exciting element, not if it happens all the time, but a good fight once perhaps twice a game is a good go.

It's actually interesting because I go to a Bible College that has a hockey team, and inevitably this conversation comes up all the time. Should there be fighting on a Christian hockey team? As far as I know (based on a couple of conversations), their coach tells them not to start anything, but they should finish it and stand up for each other. This is also because other teams will try to take advantage of the fact that they are Christian, and therefore shouldn't "fight".

[17. Rachael said the following at 4:15 PM on Apr 16:]

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David (16),

"their coach tells them not to start anything, but they should finish it and stand up for each other. This is also because other teams will try to take advantage of the fact that they are Christian, and therefore shouldn't "fight". "

-->Interesting. I'm not a hockey player, so perhaps I shouldn't judge what they do, but...what about...

Luke 6:29

"If someone strikes you on one cheek, turn to him the other also."

Hockey aside, I guess I don't know when it might be 'okay' to fight back...I suppose if someone were attacking me and I couldn't get away I'd fight back (if I had the ability) to protect myself...

[18. David said the following at 7:51 AM on Apr 17:]

18

"If someone strikes you on one cheek, turn to him the other also."

This is often thrown in their faces on the ice by their opponents. I don't think that's an invitation to let people walk all over them. I know they don't often get into fights. I know also they don't start the fights. This is probably beyond my capability to comment on fully also, as I have never actually played hockey, except for pond hockey.

This is also a perpetual discussion that gets revisited annually on campus at least once. I would imagine we could throw around our ideas but more then likely it would be better to hear from someone who actually plays league hockey and knows what its like.