The Gift of Suffering
by
Ted Slater
on Mar 31, 2008 at 4:06 PM
I walked out of the clinic in a stupor. The sky seemed less colorful, the spring air less fresh, my legs less stable. I had testicular cancer.
More blood tests, ultrasounds, X-rays. My dad flying in a few days before the surgery date. Surgery. Almost passing out in the bathroom after getting home. Passing out in the hospital a few weeks later. Months of chest X-rays and CT scans and blood tests to determine whether or not they got it all. Years of chest X-rays and CT scans and blood tests.
Five years of this, and the doctor gave me the good news: The surgery five years earlier was completely successful. I was now officially cancer-free. I was a survivor.
Did God ordain my cancer? I don't know. Did I do something to cause the cancer? I don't know.
What I do know is that I am grateful for having gone through cancer. Yeah, you read that right. I'm grateful that the Lord used that time to teach me to trust more in Him, to not fear talking with others about Him, to place some things high on the priority list and other things lower on that list.
I didn't get tied in knots with all the "why" questions, frankly. I knew God was good, and He was guiding me each day through my illness. And that was exhilarating, as though I were on the cutting edge of life. Who knows what tomorrow might bring? God knows. And He had been faithful before; He would continue being faithful. Of course. Why should I question Him now?
My cancer solidified faith and character. And that's a good thing. (And I'm not the only one to see the potential benefits of going through cancer.)
I'm no biblical scholar, but that does sound consistent with Scripture. We know, for example, that for those who love God all things work together for good (Romans 8:28). For good!
And who knows? Maybe the cancer was being used as a kind of discipline. Not punishment, since God does not punish His children, but discipline. And if it was discipline, that's a good thing -- even a gift. After all, the Lord disciplines those He loves (Hebrews 12:6). He "disciplines us for our good, that we may share his holiness. For the moment all discipline seems painful rather than pleasant, but later it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it" (Hebrews 12:10-11).
Suffering does that: It produces in us fruit of righteousness. It allows us to share God's holiness.
Whether my cancer was brought about by God's decree, by Adam's sin or by my carelessness, I don't know. Regardless who was at fault for the cancer, the Lord used that season of suffering to discipline me for good.
And now, oddly enough, I find myself thinking of another kind of suffering: the suffering of a single adult who longs to be married. They may be single because of bad choices; they may be single because of no fault of their own. I don't know. But just as the Lord did a good work in me through my suffering with cancer, I believe the Lord can do a good work in those who suffer in their singleness.
Of course, I sought out a physician to deal with my cancer. That was a good idea. And it's a fine idea for marriage-minded singles to seek help in bringing an end to their suffering as well. You don't just sit there and not deal with the root cause of your suffering.
But at the same time, I believe that one of the richest and most fulfilling joys of this life is serving the Lord in the midst of our suffering and allowing Him to make us more Christ-like through our suffering.
You may be called to a lifetime of serving the Lord as a single adult. I commend you. Suffering for the Lord by forfeiting spouse and children is honorable.
Or you may be called to marriage, and ache for it. Let me encourage you to do something about it, just as I dealt with the thing that brought me suffering. But don't despise this season: The suffering you experience may very well be a gift.
1. Jo had the following to say on Mar 31 at 4:34 PM:
Ooh. I can relate to and agree with a lot of this. I'm going to bed now but shall probably ponder on it further tomorrow...
2. Sarah22 had the following to say on Mar 31 at 5:02 PM:
Ted: Thank you, your words really blessed me.
April is my 10 month anniversary of being diagnosed with Thyroid Cancer. Both of the struggles you speak of in your article are very real and present in my life. Unfortunately, my faith in God was not as strong as I wish it had been last year as I was in the throes of surgery, radiation, etc. But God definitely does work all things together for good, I never thought there would be a time when my heart would actually be filled with joy when I thought of all I went through in the last 10 months, but He’s brought me to this point and I am so thankful! Hebrews 12 has been my theme song for awhile, esp. the verses you mentioned. Knowing that the season I am in my life right now is preparing me to partake in His Holiness is so sustaining and comforting. God has grown me up in Him SO much in the last year and I just so in love with my heavenly Father. I am in the reconstruction phase right now, my health is back, I’m getting back into shape and I’m ready to really do something about my single status. I always thought I’d be married by now and it does bother me that I’m not, but God is really working on me through Boundless and all that you guys and girls write about on here. I am really starting to understand I’ve got to put myself out there, move in different circles, pray boldly and go forward. I’m a big planner but putting those plans into place scares me a lot. I have plans to attend another local church’s college/career group this Saturday night and I’m almost paralyzed at the thought of actually going but I am going to do it. Please pray for me!
3. Rachael had the following to say on Mar 31 at 5:11 PM:
Thank you. It's neat to read that God used your suffering to develop your faith and character.
I also firmly believe there's something to be said for suffering and endurance.
Have also relatively recently been in a small group where "discipline" in Hebrews 12 was discussed a bit...don't think I completley understand how Godly discipline works. In the Old Testament it does seem as though God punished...and I know sin has consequences...but I guess we won't always know if our suffering is directly from specific sins...maybe it would be best to think of consequences and discipline as separate concepts?
Anyway, thanks again for this post.
4. Randy had the following to say on Mar 31 at 5:50 PM:
Thank you for your testimony. I think that was a very noble and important testimony for other men to hear (as well as edifying our Sisters in Christ.)
I have been meditating on being called to "celibacy" since 1995. It has been the most difficult issue in my journey right now in 2008.
I could write a book about it. :) But for the purposes of this blog post, suffice it to say thanks for your encouragement and exhortation.
5. James had the following to say on Mar 31 at 7:06 PM:
Ted, what would be your suggestion to a single man about WHO to seek out in helping to end the state of singleness?
I'm willing to wait, and also to be proactive, but I need some help and have no clue as to who to ask or what specifically I should ask them FOR.
6. Andrew (tlw) had the following to say on Mar 31 at 7:35 PM:
Ted,
I don’t know where to begin. I want to quote bible verses and prove my points, but I’m distressed and not thinking straight.
Since the fall, mankind has experienced all kinds of hardship and illness. Did He intend us to suffer sickness and disease? I don’t believe so. Otherwise it would have been created so in the beginning.
Sometimes we live and recover from illness. My brother in law did not and died of cancer. My sister in law is a widow and she’s not even forty yet. I cannot believe this was a gift of a loving Father.
“But at the same time, I believe that one of the richest and most fulfilling joys of this life is serving the Lord in the midst of our suffering and allowing Him to make us more Christ-like through our suffering.”
We are children of a Father who is so big, He can win with any hand. From any circumstance, he can draw good from evil, confound the enemy and bring forth good fruit of character, of love, and forebearance. But is sickness a gift? From a Father who says He doesn’t give us snakes, or scorpions, if we ask for food and drink?
Ted, imagine it was your child’s birthday. Imagine if you said to her: “we’ve got something special for you.” Then took her to a friends’ place where the children have mumps, or chickenpox. When your precious child gets sick, throws up, or scratches all over her body, would you tell her this will produce a fruit of righteuousness, make her more holy, and improve her character? Of course not.
More than likely, you could be arrested for child abuse.
Yet, this is what you are saying. That somehow, God causes or allows us to experience suffering, illness, poverty, singleness … [fill in blank] … to make us better people.
I recall Bill Johnson preaching on this. He talks about the attributions people make about the character of God. He talks about how, hundreds of years ago, people believed sickness was from the devil. Good things were from the Lord, our Father. Yet, our contemporary era gets it back to front. We are told that God uses sickness, misfortune, and other blights to get our attention. That He causes or allows us to experience sickness, or premature death, to draw us to Him.
I lived with a chronic illness for most of my life. It did not improve my character, make me more Christ-like, or brought me closer to Him. It was an affliction of the enemy, whose purpose to is steal, confound and taunt God’s creation. I do not believe it was my Father’s intent that I should have suffered for decades, that people who did not understand would shun me, that doctors and specialists alike would be utterly clueless, or that my health gradually deteriorated to the point where I thought I was going to die, at age 36.
I don’t have all the answers. But I do know this: my heavenly Father loves you and me so much, He sent His beloved Son to redeem us, to buy us back, when no-one else could.
I cannot believe there is a “gift of suffering.” To believe so is to say God inflicts suffering on us. We live in a fallen world, in which an enemy prowls. The heart of God is for us, and will reach out to us regardless of the circumstances in which we are in. Jesus himself was accused of being from the Devil, because he went around healing people, even on the Sabbath. Yet he rightfully pointed out that a divided house will fall. He healed many. But there is no record of him saying to people, “sorry, this illness is from my Father to make you a better person, you’re just going to have to learn to live with this one.”
I don’t recall any examples of the early church and the apostles and saints doing this either, despite Paul’s protestations about his unknown affliction. We can always ask about that when we get home.
Like Thomas, I can say that our Father is a loving God who heals, because I’ve experienced it.
I accept that you may genuinely want to see some discussion on this blog topic. But please, I ask you to carefully consider this posting. Several times in your post, you have “owned” cancer, through the words “me” and “my.” I’m not trying to belittle your experience. I’ve known far too many children and adult who died prematurely from illness. I no longer believe these occurrences were caused by my Father. Some years ago, I repented from any suggestion we should “embrace” sickness and disease as a gift from God. I would hope you might too.
Respectfully,
http://www.ministryhelps.com/bill-johnson-c-121.html
http://www.squidoo.com/billjohnson
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Johnson_(pastor)
7. BDB had the following to say on Mar 31 at 7:45 PM:
Gosh, Ted...if you keep talking about how sharing in Christ's suffering leads to our sanctification, you might talk yourself into being an Elisabeth Elliot disciple...
There's a whole other facet to cancer, suffering and marriage, too: when your spouse gets it.
During a job interview (yes, a job interview!) a prospective boss started telling me about the two girls he and his wife had adopted from Russia. It seems that she had cancer, and as a result of the surgical treatment she could never again have children. He promised her that if she was in remission after 5 years, they would adopt. And they did! So they have two biological and two adopted children.
When I hear the lists that single people put together, sometimes it seems like they've never even considered how something like cancer will change their life and give them a new "normal." Being able to get up and walk two miles a day will seem like a great blessling - forget about dancing or rock climbing or a lot of other things.
Good post...one of your better ones!
8. Patrick had the following to say on Mar 31 at 7:49 PM:
Ted, speaking as a Christian man who's still fresh from a breakup and whose heart still aches so much (but, sad as it is for me to say, I believe she made the right choice for herself at this time), I just wanted to say, this was wonderful! Thank you for writing it. Thank you for helping us to have the right perspective in all this.
9. Christina had the following to say on Mar 31 at 8:09 PM:
Wow.
Thanks. Really needed to hear that after today.
Its been getting more difficult lately...just watching friends get married and having children...it gets harder with every single announcement.
10. Sarah22 had the following to say on Mar 31 at 8:34 PM:
Andrew: Have you ever read Job?
11. temi had the following to say on Mar 31 at 8:34 PM:
so what should we do, cos whatever it is i have done it, from fasting to praying to tithing and sowing seeds and making lists and praying and fasting over these lists and online dating and everything under the sun and now i have given up!!!!
12. Katie B had the following to say on Mar 31 at 9:32 PM:
Andrew, I agree that sickness and pain are a result of suffering, but also that God works through them. "Count it all joy, my brothers, when you meet trials of various kinds, 3for you know that the testing of your faith produces steadfastness. 4And let steadfastness have its full effect, that you may be perfect and complete, lacking in nothing." James 1
I have a chronic illness as well, its managable, but it is hard, something no one should ever have to deal with, and the reality that I will very likely develop thyroid cancer in the coming years. that passage was not meant to placate, because I have gotten that alot, and it is infuriating, but as a testamony that in suffering GOd meets us, which is the only thing at times that keeps me going.
Illness isnt a gift from God, I agree, but God allows it, sometimes for explicit purpose, like Pauls thorn, and sometimes just because. And God ministers to us in our brokeness.
13. Andrew (tlw) had the following to say on Mar 31 at 10:49 PM:
Sarah22,
Yes.
Are you suggesting that Christians should invite God to bless them with the sufferings of Job?
- have your family members die;
- be declared bankrupt;
- watch your skin erupt in boils and sores.
… so they can be be better Christians?
Can't see that becoming a popular movement.
Even Job didn't ask for that.
14. Andrew (tlw) had the following to say on Mar 31 at 11:21 PM:
Sarah22,
I appreciate that God has drawn you to Him through these tough times. This does not mean that He caused you to get sick. This is the crucial difference. Look at Job, if you must. All his afflictions, boils and misfortunes did not come to him from the hand of a loving Father. They were inflicted by the enemy.
We used to believe that sickness was from the enemy, and good things were from the Lord. Now, we believe that sickness is from God, to grow us, and that good things can be from the enemy, to distract us from His will. I find this really odd.
Job was a righteous man; even God boasted of it. This is why he was stunned when it seemed the world turned against him. It wasn’t supposed to happen. And when he was sitting in dust and ashes, his “friends” came along and rubbed it in, telling him he must have sinned.
Job asks God for answers. But notice what God says in reply. He does not explain, accept liability, apologise for the misunderstanding, or say that He was trying to make Job a better man. He reminds Job who of who He is, and who Job is in comparison. Ouch.
Much greater minds than I have grappled with the concept of suffering. I am not so arrogant to believe I have it all worked out. But I can trust in this: that a loving Father disciplines and corrects his children. A loving Father does not abuse and mistreat His children.
My prayer is that you would continue to seek out His heart and hear His voice in these trying times.
15. Ro had the following to say on Apr 1 at 4:32 AM:
Thanks Ted, this was a very encouraging post. Suffering definitely does make us better people, and makes us who we are.
I think people also need to realize the importance of supporting those who are going through difficult times, whether it be singleness or other difficulties.
Some do find singleness to be suffering, but support or prayer during this time or for this issue, is quite difficult to come by. (I speak from personal experience).
Sometimes what we want is not really an end to our singleness, but some support from our local church body / families / communities. Which I guess we often don't experience because most people do not realize that being single can be painful for some. Perhaps better education of pastors or their wives is needed.
I am very grateful though that Boundless seem to understand what some of us go through, and offer their encouragement and support. And amazed by the creative genius of a God that allows people all over the world daily access to this source of encouragement through the internet!
16. David had the following to say on Apr 1 at 4:57 AM:
"And we rejoice in the hope of the glory of God. Not only so, but we also rejoice in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance; perseverance, character; and character, hope. And hope does not disappoint us, because God has poured out his love into our hearts by the Holy Spirit, whom he has given us." -Romans 5:2-5
I have to admit that I am torn on this subject. Like so many others that have posted, I have also experienced death, sickness & heartache in recent times.
I cannot say with 100% certainty whether it was an attack of the enemy or discipline from God. (John 9:3) But I do know that whatever happens to me must always go through the Father. (Job 1:12) He is not surprised or caught off guard by anything that happens.
More importantly, if I do not believe that my God is bigger than all of my problems/concerns/troubles than I serve a very small God who is hardly worthy of my worship.
At the end of the day, I do not need to have everything figured out, I only need to believe the promises of Jesus and hold them close to my heart through life's difficulties.
"I've told you all this so that trusting me, you will be unshakable and assured, deeply at peace. In this godless world you will continue to experience difficulties. But take heart! I've conquered the world."
-John 16:33
17. Heidi had the following to say on Apr 1 at 5:49 AM:
I do appreciate this post, though I have a few points that I’d like to comment on for clarity.
Ted, you wrote: "Suffering does that: It produces in us fruit of righteousness."
Suffering brings out whatever has been stored inside the heart, like a grape produces juice when it is crushed. For seasoned believers, it brings out righteousness, for new believers it brings faith and problem areas out into the open for all to see, and for unbelievers it brings out all sorts of distressing sin. When you say it “produces fruit of righteousness”, I’m reminded that it does so only among trees of righteousness that bear good fruit (Matthew 7).
Many people mistakenly believe that suffering draws us near to God. Don't get me wrong--it certainly can and does throw us at the feet of Christ in many instances--but the equation "suffering=close to God" is false. Like any other believer, those who suffer still struggle to fight the good fight. We need to be held accountable and challenged in the faith, be warned against apathy and encouraged to not give up. All other means of drawing near to God are still needed in the lives of those who suffer. In other words, we can't sit back and expect suffering do the work.
Lest you think I'm pulling these thoughts out of thin air, I've been suffering from very severe chronic illnesses for years and am involved in the chronically ill community. And one of the greatest misconceptions is that if we are going through extremely difficult trials, it must mean we are close to the Lord.
I only intend to clarify that suffering in and of itself does nothing good in our lives, rather, it is when God works through the suffering and when we utilize it as a gift from Him that the blessings flow. God is the power behind it…let us be wary of giving the credit to mere suffering.
Thank you for bringing this topic to everyone's attention.
18. Jo had the following to say on Apr 1 at 7:21 AM:
I have CF, a serious, lifelong, incurable, unpredictable and generally life-shortening lung disease which I've had from birth. So that's the main perspective I'm coming from. My thoughts on the subject are developing all the time. I've moved into (I think) a greater understanding as I've grown older, and I expect that to continue. So these are my current ideas and beliefs and not necessarily correct or universal.
Point 1:
What do I mean by gift?
Do I receive a diamond necklace with the same emotion as I receive a set of saucepans? The necklace is beautiful, valuable, wonderful to look at, I enjoy it just by its existence. Saucepans are useful for a particular purpose. I don't display them in order to gaze on their loveliness. They aid me with a task, I don't enjoy them in the same way as I enjoy the necklace but I enjoy what I can accomplish with them - they are a means to an end.
Suffering is not a diamond necklace. We are not told to thank God for our suffering. We rejoice in our suffering, but we don't rejoice because of it, but because of what God is doing in us through it. The end result will be good. Suffering is a means to an end, and the end is us becoming like Christ.
Point 2:
Does God ordain suffering or simply allow it? I think both.
Human beings are NOT designed to suffer. God did not create suffering, nor does he inherently need to use suffering to accomplish his purposes. The fact that we suffer is a result of our sin, and the fallen nature of our world; it is contrary to God's plan.
However, we live in the context of this fallen world, and all of us will therefore suffer. God has not ordained this, he has allowed it because of free will. But in this context, on an individual level, I believe that God in many cases directly ordains the ways in which we suffer. All of us suffer in a variety of ways, for me the main things have been my illness, the death of my Dad and a really painful relationship break-up. Each of these things has affected me in different ways, and God has used them all to teach me and shape me in different areas. In another person, the struggles would have been different and the teaching and growth would have been different. God knows us intimately and he knows exactly how to get us to where he wants us to be. I am comforted to think that God is not simply 'allowing' the Devil to do what he likes to my body. I believe God has lovingly set out a path for me which involves specially chosen blessings and specially chosen sufferings. My steps are ordered by the Lord.
Point 3:
Owning my suffering, do I call it 'my CF'? Do I accept it as an aspect of God's plan for me? Yes, I do. It's part of me and it's part of who I am. Without it I would be a different person.
I was recently in hospital and sent out update emails with the slightly flippant subject title 'My rubbish lungs :)'. A few days later I received an email back from someone who had modified the subject to 'Those lungs that help you sing such wonderful songs'. It challenged my perspective. God created me as I am, flaws and all.
On one of the Boundless shows it was said that 'I need...' implies an 'in order to...', ie I need my lungs to work in order to live. But I'd take it further than that: I need to live in order to serve God. So it follows that if my lungs are damaged, there must be nothing that God has for me to do that would require my lungs to be perfect. The quality of my lungs, as well as everything else I deal with on this earth are completely adequate for all God is calling me to.
This is long, I know. I'm not disputing that in some cases suffering may be a direct attack from the Devil. I'm not claiming that my perception of what is true in my life is 100% accurate, or will necessarily be true in other people's lives. I'm also not saying that we shouldn't pray for deliverance from suffering, but I do think we should understand that God is God. Andrew is right when he says that He can win with any hand, But He alone knows which hand will provide the BEST win. Would God have been more glorified in my life if He had healed me when I was a kid? Honestly, I highly doubt it. Does that prevent me from continuing to pray for healing now? Absolutely not. But in the end I trust God. He knows my weaknesses and my strengths and the particular struggles I face, and He is doing a personal, tailor-made, good work in me. The journey is exciting and scary and confusing at times, but the destination will be worth it.
The end.
19. Matthew had the following to say on Apr 1 at 7:23 AM:
Great post Ted. This is something that the comfort-addicted American church needs to learn and love in our costly discipleship. Thanks for being open and honest with the lessons that God has taught you through suffering.
Andrew,
I am sorry for what you have had to endure in this life. The suffering I've been through doesn't come close. But there's a lot of wiser people who came before me with more intense suffering, and I think they had a different perspective. Most of the NT was written by martyrs, and if you look at Hebrews 11 the heroes of our faith-- the people you would think that God would bless with material wealth and physical health-- suffered brutally. Christ Himself came for many reasons, but the primary one was to suffer a horrific death and then rise again that we might live. Throughout history, men and women who suffered greatly-- Raymond Lull, Adoniram Judson, David Livingstone, Jim & Elisabeth Elliott-- were used greatly by God as drink offering poured out to Him.
The devil was clearly involved in much of this persecution and suffering (look at Job.) But if we believe in a God who is all-powerful, at some point we must accept the fact that God has chosen by one means or another to let certain people suffer for His ultimate glory and for their ultimate joy. John Piper has a lot of very good teaching on these subjects.
We serve a good and loving God who, as our Father, will eventually bring us into His eternal joy forever. Paul speaks of us in 2 Corinthians 4:16-18, where he talks about the eternal glory God is preparing for us far outweighing our "light and momentary" suffering. Paul, if you'll recall, was given 39 lashes five different times, shipwrecked, thrown in prison, beaten, stoned, etc.-- and yet he describes this all as "light and momentary." Our hope in the Gospel is that the suffering God allows us to endure here is meaningful. I'll end with a quote from Doestevsky describing the end of time:
“I believe like a child that suffering will be healed and made up for, that all the humiliating absurdity of human contradictions will vanish like a pitiful mirage, like the despicable fabrication of the impotent and infinitely small Euclidean mind of man, that in the world’s finale, at the moment of eternal harmony, something so precious will come to pass that it will suffice for all hearts, for the comforting of all resentments, of the atonement of all the crimes of humanity, of all the blood that they’ve shed; and it will make it not only possible to forgive but to justify what has happened.”
20. Carrie (the original) had the following to say on Apr 1 at 7:49 AM:
This past Sunday I heard something I have heard several times before: "The Gospel tends to spread under persecution". I thought about it and how many people hope that the modern church does fall under persecution at some point.
Thanks to the ministry of Boundless and the issues they have raised, I think that the Church is under persecution, but just a whole different sort of persecution. I think that delayed marriage is part of it how the enemy has worked his cunningness in the hearts of God's children.
Ted, thank you for leading this ministry. Thank you for the many insightful articles and comments you have made. It has born fruit in my life. It has equipped me to encourage men around me and encouraged me to keep up with the mentoring relationships I had started. Really, truly, thank you for saying the hard stuff.
21. Nate had the following to say on Apr 1 at 7:58 AM:
Thanks for the great post! When I saw the title I nearly fell off my chair. Three days ago I spoke to a youth group about God's plan for suffering in our lives. As I was preparing what I was going to say, I began thinking about suffering in my own life. I realized that a large amount of suffering in my life right now is due to the fact that I'm by myself (single). Thanks for the honesty and encouragement!
Here are some other interesting passages about suffering:
Heb. 12: 2-3
Acts 5:41
2 Timothy 1:8
Philippians 3:10
Romans 5:3-5
2 Cor. 1:3-7
Heb. 2:18
22. Adam had the following to say on Apr 1 at 8:36 AM:
Andrew tlw,
Ted, imagine it was your child’s birthday. Imagine if you said to her: “we’ve got something special for you.” Then took her to a friends’ place where the children have mumps, or chickenpox. When your precious child gets sick, throws up, or scratches all over her body, would you tell her this will produce a fruit of righteuousness, make her more holy, and improve her character? Of course not.
More than likely, you could be arrested for child abuse.
Well, if someone saw a parent getting angry with a child in their home, and didn't know the context, they might think that it is child abuse too.
The problem with your analogy is that parents are not able to use the various diseases in order to sanctify their child because they are not God. There are some people whose sickness only makes them hard towards God. The only ones on whom evil will have any effect towards rightousness are those who have already been regenerated by the work of the Holy Spirit. Thus, because parents cannot save or sanctify their children, you have given us a false analogy.
If you are going to say what you say, then you will have to show us that there is no possible morally sufficient reason for the evil that takes place in this world. If God has a morally sufficient reason for the evil that he ordains, then there is no way God can be accused of anything when he ordains evil. The person who wants to say that there is something wrong with this has to show that there is no possible morally sufficient reason for the evil in this world, and thus, is forced into proving a universal negative, which is impossible.
God Bless,
Adam
23. a sassy sister had the following to say on Apr 1 at 8:40 AM:
temi,
I think there are several things you can do:
1.) Embrace gratitude. Count your blessings, and think on things that are noble, true, pure, etc. There IS SOMETHING to be grateful and thankful to God for, even in the midst of trial and difficulty.
2.)Ask God what He is trying to teach you. Ask God if there are any lessons to be learned during this time.
3.) Be honest about your desires for marriage, and your frustrations. Continue to pour out your heart to God, but also constantly release the matter to God. That may mean verbally saying that God comes first and that you trust him even when things don't make sense at the moment.
Conversely, RELAX. Slow down and take a step back. You say you've tried different things and you're still single, and that you've prayed and fasted about it. It seems from your post that you've just stopped hoping because things haven't worked out THE WAY YOU WANTED THEM TO. Just because that happens doesn't change God's love for you and what God wants you to do with your life(and only you and God would know exactly what that is)
So, act on what you do know, and stop worrying about the things you don't. Do the things that you know God has instructed you to do RIGHT NOW. Since you don't know the EXACT day and time you'll be married, obsessing about it isn't going to make it happen faster. Neither is comparing your singleness with another person. All of us are unique, different people, and the most dangerous trap we can fall into is looking at someone else's life as the standard for success instead of looking to God's Word for that standard, especially when it comes to this.
I think the best thing that you can do is continue to pray---but take that same passion and pray for others(the body of Christ, leadership, etc.)Worrying about tomorrow doesn't make it come faster; it only causes you to needlessly waste today. While I'm not encouraging an impulsive,hedonistic lifestyle, I am encouraging you to stop worrying about the things you have NO CONTROL OVER. You can influence the actions of others, but you cannot MAKE others commit to certain choices, especially when it comes to your singleness. And really, do you want to be in relationships with people who you are really subconsciously influencing for your own agendas? That's not love--that's bondage.
You have an opportunity to grow in a deeper relationship with God and others through this. Allow this time to push you closer to God, and not farther away from Him.
24. Ted Slater had the following to say on Apr 1 at 8:52 AM:
Andrew (tlw), you wrote:
"I can say that our Father is a loving God who heals, because I’ve experienced it."
Yes, God heals. And He inflicts. He gives. And He takes away. He builds up. But He also tears down. He plants. But He also reaps.
Yes, in some ways God is like an earthly father, caring and providing for His children. But the analogy isn't perfect. While it would be wrong for me to sacrifice either of my daughters, for example, it is not wrong for God to sacrifice His Son. He is free to kill someone because they touched a box of wood and gold; I would not be free to do so. His ways are not like ours in so many ways.
Again, God sometimes heals our inflictions. The thing is, those inflictions don't just disappear -- He takes those inflictions upon Himself. The Father ordains that those inflictions be placed upon His Son. And sometimes He ordains for us to share those sufferings with Him, for His mysterious glory.
See 2 Cor. 1:5 and Phil. 3:10 to see that this is a biblical, albeit difficult, concept. Also, see a recent Boundless article, "Share Christ's Sufferings," for more unpacking of this concept.
25. Sarah22 had the following to say on Apr 1 at 9:51 AM:
Andrew: No, I do not wish those things in my life, your life, or anyone else’s. However, what I was trying to point out is that God allows difficulties to come into our life, and uses them to bring Glory to Himself, just as you spoke about Job.
I believe just as Satan sought to destroy Job's faith in God he seeks to destroy our faith as well, does not the bible say that Satan was a murderer from the beginning? Does he not roam about as a lion, seeking whom he may devour? He HATES our faith in God and while once we are saved he can never pluck us out of God’s hand he still desires to draw us away from God in any way possible because he knows God uses us to reach the ones left who are not saved. But God is the victor, Satan was crushed when Jesus died on the cross for our sins and He uses trials to refine our faith, and to bring glory and honor to His name.
Psalm 139:6 states: Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all my members were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them. – My God is all knowing, all powerful. He knew and planned each of my days before one of them came to be, my cancer was a surprise to me, but not to Him, and He has and will continue to use it to His glory.
I believe there is a difference between God purposefully giving someone an illness or disease as opposed to allowing it to happen. I’m not sure exactly how it works, but I’m not about to think that I can put myself on God’s level and understanding. God can do whatever He wants within the context of Himself (He cannot sin, temp people with sin, etc.) as we know. What I am 100% sure of is that God created me, he knew I would one day develop cancer and that He would be glorified in the process. I don’t know what the cancer was a result of as Ted has stated. Please don’t put words into my mouth, you keep pushing that I (and Ted) basically believe God sent down cancer cells from heaven and placed them into our bodies. I don’t think that and I don’t believe Ted does either.
To me in the end this whole discussion is somewhat of a redundant conversation. Your seem sad as you have gone through so much and I’m not sure what you attribute it to, but there doesn’t seem to be much of a testimony on your side that gives a lot of glory to God. I’m not saying you don’t love Him, but why lose such a chance to point back your trials back to God as a blessing in the end and give Him the glory instead of focusing on whether he did or did not place the illness in your body? I thank you for your words and I pray that you have no bitterness about the hard times you have gone through. Being sick is a terrible thing to go through, I would never wish it on anyone, but we know it does happen, and quite often. I am just thankful that I am saved and I know that God is not surprised or unaware of the things going on in my life and that I have the promise that someday I will be worshipping my Savior in heaven with a perfect heart and a perfect body and never have to worry again about my dying body. May God bless you in your walk with Him.
26. Mike Theemling had the following to say on Apr 1 at 10:00 AM:
- Can/does God use calamity to further His purpose? YES
- Is "pain and suffering" necessary for genuine, meaning spiritual growth in this Fallen world? YES
- Is "pain and suffering" (like in the context of the OP) a gift? NO
I agree with many of the ideas in the prior postings so won't repeat the arguments.
27. Jim had the following to say on Apr 1 at 10:43 AM:
Andrew,
On one level, I can understand how you feel, and I truly sympathize with your difficult experiences. But your stance diminishes the sovereignty of God. It is true in Job's case that the affliction came from Satan, but Satan had to ask for God’s permission for EVERYTHING he inflicted on Job. God was (and is always) in ultimate control.
Romans 8:28 which very well known says that ALL things work for the good of those who love Him. Not some things, not only the “good” things, but rather ALL things.
Maybe a better word than “gift” should be used for the suffering we endure, but regardless of the word chosen, God either causes or allows ALL things that happen to us and it is ultimately for our good. If that is not true, He is not sovereign and the promise of Romans 8:28 ring hollow.
I have not personally encountered great suffering yet, but I will relate one personal story. My pastor in Tx was the product of a rape. But in spite of the terrible ordeal his mother endured, she remained faithful and had a baby named James Schupp who became an awesome pastor with an awesome testimony (he is now the pastor of a large church in San Antonio). So God can and does work through the most terrible things for good.
Not all afflictions end in victory and reward for being faithful, at least not in this life. But the hope Christians have is that and our loving Father will reward us in the next life if not in this life. There are some tragic things that happen for which there is no earthly answer and for which there is genuine heartbreak, but God is sovereign, He is Good, and all things work for the good of His children, and the reward may not come until heaven.
28. BDB had the following to say on Apr 1 at 12:12 PM:
Does God "Inflict?"
Perhaps there is a better word.
Over on the Jonah thread we were talking about how God Provided a vine for shade, then Provded a Worm to kill the shade plant, and provided a harsh East wind to make Jonah faint and wish for death.
In the KJV it is "prepared" for all three instances - both the good and bad. (Strongs #H4487)
The Hebrew word is "manah" in each case, defined as:
A primitive root: properly to weigh out; by implication to allot or constitute officially; also to enumerate or enroll: appoint, count, number, prepare, set, tell. There's other versions of the word, meaning "ration" or "portion," but a specific amount measured out.
Interestingly, I can find definition for God to Provide, such as when he Provided a Lamb for an offering.
Interestingly, I can't find "inflict" in the KJV version of Strong's encyclopedia. The one time "inflict" is used in the NKJV is Deut. 7:23, where the KJV uses the term "destroy" instead. There are several places where "afflict" is used. One example is Gen 15:13, referring to how the Egyptians will afflict Israel for 400 years. There are 35 examples of afflict, many of them where God is doing the afflicting, such as Jer 31:28. Though God also promises in Nahum 1:12 to "afflict thee no more." Interesting that the word only seems to be used in the Old Testament, not the New.
29. tom had the following to say on Apr 1 at 1:49 PM:
"Those God would use greatly He must first wound deeply."
I've seen that attributed to A.W. Tozer, but I believe it belongs to Charles Haddon Spurgeon, who suffered debilitating depression through most of his adult life, yet continued to preach God's word and the message of His grace.
PS. I'm open to correction on the source of that quote.
30. Ted Slater had the following to say on Apr 1 at 1:50 PM:
BDB -- I find many examples of God either "inflicting" stuff on people or "afflicting them. Click here to see some verses...
Psalm 80:4-7 seems fairly clear that God does at times intentionally make our lives less comfortable.
Also, check out Isaiah 53, which prophecies about what the Father would do to Jesus. Words include: stricken, smitten by God, afflicted, crushed, oppressed and put to grief. Scripture is clear that we share in Christ's sufferings -- sometimes merely metaphorically, and sometimes quite literally. May our response to such painful discipline be increased faith.
31. BDB had the following to say on Apr 1 at 8:58 PM:
Ted (#30) wrote:
>>I find many examples of God either "inflicting" stuff on people or "afflicting them. Click here to see some verses...<<
Ah - you used the "*" search. The English Standard Version does have a lot more instances than KJV.
Andrew (tlw), which translation are you using?
32. Karen K. had the following to say on Apr 2 at 10:14 AM:
This is the first time that I am posting on this site. I find a lot of the articles very informative and refreshing.
Just a thought to add with the others in this topic. I do believe that Jesus does disciple us and suffering does come.I have been listening to many sermons on the subject as it is what my pastor is teaching on right now. Sickness is not something that God ever sends, it is a direct attack from the Devil, as was Job's afflictions. It is because we are in a fallen world. We can learn through these times, but they are not from God. He is a loving Father who healed those who needed it. If you read through the accounts in the gospels, there are very few that Jesus did not heal. He wants to heal us, and He would not want to heal us if he sent the illness. In regard to sufferings, I think that the sufferings that are spoken of is persecution from unbelievers. We are not delivered from this, Jesus was persecuted for us and by believing in Him, we will suffer persecution. It has been helpful for me to look at the Scriptures quoted earlier in the post in that light.
Thank you and Lord Bless everyone's day!
33. Jo had the following to say on Apr 2 at 5:32 PM:
Karen K:
Job's afflictions were directly authorised by God, and he did not heal them.
If illness is always an attack, and it is always God's will to heal, why are there Christians for whom healing doesn't come?