Online Dating Mavens: Episode #7
by Motte Brown on 03/07/2008 at 6:50 PM
 iTunes | FeedBurner/RSS |
We begin our seventh episode with a lively roundtable of single young women discussing their experiences with online dating -- some good, some bad. In addition to sharing their stories, they take an honest look at why singles pursue matches online rather than off-line. It's something we've touched on before here and here.
Following the roundtable we have part two of our interview with Salvador. Here they talk about their musical and spiritual influences as well as the importance of vibrant Christian community, particularly for men. Why? Because as lead singer Nic says, temptations are just more accessible these days.
And as of this writing, I've yet to hear the music our engineer Dave Salkeld has chosen from Salvador's new CD "Aware" for the transitions. So I'm as excited as anyone to get my download from iTunes.
John Thomas's Hungry Years fits nicely with the roundtable discussion. He talks about taking on a different persona behind the mic as a late night DJ. Sort of like how people take on a different persona on their online profiles.
We did a little something different with this week's Inbox segment by taking a question from a blog instead of our email. It's about a decision I made to forgo graduate school and trust God with my earning potential. It wasn't easy given my (and my wife's) conviction about living on one salary. A reader asks if it's possible to do in an expensive area.
This episode runs longer than usual so these segment breaks may come in handy. Call me a nerd but I use them to listen to my favorite music bumpers.
Intro
Roundtable -- 3:18
Culture -- 15:20
Hungry Years -- 21:26
Inbox -- 25:47
As always you can subscribe to the show on iTunes or with RSS. Listen and let us know what you think. And if you have a mind to, submit a review on iTunes so that others will know how great the show is. ;-)
1. Christina (in green) said the following at 12:40 PM on Mar 9:
I really liked the point that there aren't many people in the church that are doing the intentional introduction thing.
I know that when I spot a guy I would like to get to know better, I look for people that he already has a relationship with to strike up a friendship with (sisters, parents, friends). Sometimes I even want my dad or brother to strike up a conversation with the guy. I just don't feel "appropriate" approaching him myself and introducing myself.
Maybe I'm old fashioned and not "getting with the times", but for some reason, the introduction of two people from people that know both parties rather well means so much more to me than my going up and saying "Hi, my name is..." and hoping things go from there.
2. Mike Theemling said the following at 9:12 PM on Mar 9:
Interesting discussion about online dating. Just a few comments though:
- I was surprised that there were no men on the roundtable discussion regarding the topic. Of course, this could've been because there were no one in this category available to grab. However, the problem is of course you only receive one slant/point of view on the matter. It can definitely give the impression if inferred incorrectly that most men behave in a negative way online. I'm sure most women wouldn't be happy if the table were comprised solely of men who have tried (and mostly failed) online and lamented about all the things "wrong with women".
- There also seemed a lot of criticism about this one guy online who had unrealistic expectations regarding women. Now I haven't read the profile, or its context, and I agree that he probably was a bit too idealistic from the sounds of it. But at least he was upfront and honest regarding his needs/wants; unlike many people online. The fact is that most men DO marry women younger than them (even a difference of 12 years isn't that unheard of, right Ted?) and most men DO care, a lot, about appearance. Any guy who says "appearances don't matter" is either blind or lying.
- On that note, I'd like the ladies to answer something: Why is it when you say in your profile "I'm looking for a guy with X, Y and Z" and then a guy who meets that criteria initiates with you do you just completely ignore them and not respond? (I know not all of you do that, but it happens enough that it's a valid point). From the dicussion it seems that the complaint is the same as in the offline world: "men don't initiate". I suspect what that really means is "men I'm interested in don't initiate". Again, there are always exceptions to this rule and I do feel for those who truly haven't been asked out. But I wonder ladies, do you behave differently around guys you do like compared to guys you don't? To be sure, men do this as well and will naturally gravitate towards those they are attracted to (usually those who are better looking).
- Bottom line is that most of us, guys and girls, tend to raise their standards when online because we reason that since our pool of applicants is greater, there are more who meet our inflated criteria out there, and there is a greater chance that we will find someone who will respond to us. But online dating for the most part only really helps those looking for those high standards who have a good photo (i.e. are physically attractive) because they will garner more hits. Those who do not will probably not even be considered because the "whole person" thends to be separated from the profile.
3. Rachael said the following at 9:58 PM on Mar 9:
I don't date online, in fact, I'm not dating at all, but in response to Mike (2)'s question: "But I wonder ladies, do you behave differently around guys you do like compared to guys you don't?"
--> You know, it's weird. I find I'm often more comfortable and less shy around guys I don't "like like" than when I'm around guys I do in certain group settings (especially with certain personalities present) Weirdness. Oh well.
Mike also brings up the issue of appearance. Perhaps men are generally more particular. But women often at least care to an extent too. I'm realizing that if I found a particular person's appearance attractive I might have at least a slight crush on him because his character seems really neat. Weird that I should even think about that. Shouldn't overthink about it though because he's never pursued me, but if we got to know each other more and if he did pursue, what what I say...? Hmmm. Again it's useless to think about. I'm not sure how to be more generous about attraction, though. Maybe Candice's book will have something to say about that. God can change that though, if it's meant to be....
4. BDB said the following at 11:46 PM on Mar 9:
So THAT's why the title says "Mavens." I was wondering how Ted could be a "Maven."
Online dating = volume
Interesting. Given how much work it takes to get to know one person, how do you get through the volume with any depth?
Christina (in green) (#1):
>>I really liked the point that there aren't many people in the church that are doing the intentional introduction thing.<<
And those who do seem so...clueless...I think it's fine to hold a BBQ and invite people. This would be a great way for missions-minded people to meet each other. But I wish people wouldn't decide that their divorced friend is perfect for me because she looks like she's my age; despite her having kids more than half my age and a huge difference in our education and life experience. That can be awkward.
Mike (#2) wrote:
>>Any guy who says "appearances don't matter" is either blind or lying.<<
Or they have friends with cancer. You'd be surprised how that changes your perception of how important appearance is.
I can't comprehend why people would lie about their age online. Why don't people understand that lying about things knocks the bricks out of the foundation of trust?
Regarding the crazy guy who was claiming mentors; yeah, I'd probably print out the profile and mail it to the guy who was listed as a "mentor." That's what accountability means!
Lisa was going to go to Yale? Interesting...but seriously, keep talking about avoiding debt. It's not the graduate degree that's the problem - you're handicapped without it. It's the debt that messes up your life choices. Like Lisa, I've been a hiring manager, and in some fields - such as managing a multi-million dollar budget - those with a graduate degree (MBA) are decisively better than people with an undergraduate liberal arts degree. I have both and I can assure you, while my liberal arts degree prepared me to write, it was the MBA that taught me to manage large complex budgets. Do what you are called to do, and God will make a way.
5. Christina (in green) said the following at 8:19 AM on Mar 10:
- I was surprised that there were no men on the roundtable discussion regarding the topic. Of course, this could've been because there were no one in this category available to grab. However, the problem is of course you only receive one slant/point of view on the matter. It can definitely give the impression if inferred incorrectly that most men behave in a negative way online. I'm sure most women wouldn't be happy if the table were comprised solely of men who have tried (and mostly failed) online and lamented about all the things "wrong with women".
They said at the beginning of the show that they would be getting an all-guy perspective on this in the near future >.<
- There also seemed a lot of criticism about this one guy online who had unrealistic expectations regarding women. Now I haven't read the profile, or its context, and I agree that he probably was a bit too idealistic from the sounds of it. But at least he was upfront and honest regarding his needs/wants; unlike many people online. The fact is that most men DO marry women younger than them (even a difference of 12 years isn't that unheard of, right Ted?) and most men DO care, a lot, about appearance. Any guy who says "appearances don't matter" is either blind or lying.
The point they were trying to make about this one guy was that he was listing the wrong attributes to be the most picky about (physical rather than personality and spiritual growth). They also brought him up as an example of how finding a mate without the guidance of your mentors can lead to a profile such as this. If his mentors that he claimed in the profile had been present while he was creating the profile, I'm sure his list of priorities he was looking for in a woman would have been quite different.
- On that note, I'd like the ladies to answer something: Why is it when you say in your profile "I'm looking for a guy with X, Y and Z" and then a guy who meets that criteria initiates with you do you just completely ignore them and not respond? (I know not all of you do that, but it happens enough that it's a valid point). From the dicussion it seems that the complaint is the same as in the offline world: "men don't initiate". I suspect what that really means is "men I'm interested in don't initiate". Again, there are always exceptions to this rule and I do feel for those who truly haven't been asked out. But I wonder ladies, do you behave differently around guys you do like compared to guys you don't? To be sure, men do this as well and will naturally gravitate towards those they are attracted to (usually those who are better looking).
That's not really much different than what you get in real life. And yeah...for me, I'm not as flirtatious with guys i'm REALLY REALLY interested in because I'm usually more nervous. I'm also a lot more serious because I want them to see more of what makes me tick than simply have fun >.<
- Bottom line is that most of us, guys and girls, tend to raise their standards when online because we reason that since our pool of applicants is greater, there are more who meet our inflated criteria out there, and there is a greater chance that we will find someone who will respond to us. But online dating for the most part only really helps those looking for those high standards who have a good photo (i.e. are physically attractive) because they will garner more hits. Those who do not will probably not even be considered because the "whole person" thends to be separated from the profile.
Again, not that different from real life =p Doesn't matter where you are, where your face is, the more attractive people are always the ones that get more initial hits. Thing is, online, you'll never get past hello if you don't have that attractive photo. In real life, there may be more hope.
6. obewan said the following at 11:43 AM on Mar 10:
I am not real excited about online dating. So far, I have only received responses from women who are way too young for me. I am in my 40's, and I have been contacted by several women who are only 18. I also keep getting smiles and emails from foreign women who are in most cases at least 20 years younger than me. I am starting to think that some of them are doing it as a prank or something. I don't even have the motivation to respond in most cases. So far, I have not found anyone that I wish to contact. I have only used the free sites though. The big news is to avoid giving any money to bigchurch.com because they are owned by Penthouse publications now. It seems some people are only in it for the money, and I have found several so-called “Christian dating” websites that have links to porn or that offer to hook up gays and lesbians. It really does take some discretion I think. http://www.bigchurchdating.info/
7. Bethany J said the following at 2:43 PM on Mar 11:
I finally figured out that I can listen off of iTunes, which I don't have downloaded. This was really enjoyable! I'm going to go listen to all the previous episodes now, and be waiting for the next one to come out!! Any of you who, like me, haven't bothered to actually listen to any episodes, do now!
The information and example about living on the husband's income only were great. The comment was made that moving across the country and living with "old" furniture might be crazy and too much for some. That's unfortunate. It sounds just fine and right to me. Commitments require sacrifice at times, and most are totally worth it.
8. anu said the following at 6:29 PM on Mar 11:
this is definitely off topic, but can we have a post about how 1 in 4 teen girls have an STD? This just kills me, and I've been thinking about it constantly since I saw the news.
9. Annie said the following at 11:46 AM on Mar 15:
I was frustrated by the repeated admonitions against getting graduate degrees, and I was offended by the statement at the end that 'if you're 30 and still messing around with graduate degrees, there's just something wrong with you!'
I will be 30 this year and just finished my PhD in physics. I am not in debt. I would like to know what exactly is wrong with that!
Graduate degrees don't necessarily mean going into debt. In fact, most PhD's in science are completely funded, leaving a recent graduate with lots of great experience and even a bit of pocket money! Cut us more academically-minded people some slack, ok?
10. Caroline said the following at 6:15 PM on Mar 15:
Hey y'all,
Overall, I've enjoyed the podcasts so far. Still, I found the section on online dating sort of ridiculous, esp. with the continual name-calling of "freaks" which seemed very condemning to me. I KNOW that at the outset of the discussion, there was mentioned a future segment in which men discuss online dating, but I feel that a co-ed discussion would have been more productive.
11. BDB said the following at 7:27 PM on Mar 16:
Annie (#9) wrote:
>>Graduate degrees don't necessarily mean going into debt. In fact, most PhD's in science are completely funded,<<
Yess, Annie is right. There are lots of fellowship dollars directed towards the Ph.D. crowd. In some industries, an employer will pay for a master's degree, too. But most professional degrees (law, MBA, medicine) assume that the student will graduate and make lots of money, so there are a lot fewer fellowships available for them.
12. Tami said the following at 2:42 PM on Mar 25:
Catching up here.
Some of the more "applied" Masters programs in the social sciences -- e.g., social work, library science -- aren't always fields you jump into right after college in your early 20's. If you look at the stats for some such programs, the average age is around 37 (which indicates some work experience, and/or going back to school after your kids are out of the toddling years). Sometimes you get into those types of programs because the work associated with them is actually more flexible than a corporate career. And the programs are flexible, too -- distance learning is a feature offered by many very reputable schools.
Plus there are grants and scholarships, and the workplace will often help you pay for school.
13. Kellie said the following at 11:42 PM on Mar 28:
Chiming in a little late, but I have to say I was disappointed with Motte's answer to Justice about living in an expensive state. The advice to simply move isn't all that helpful. If all family and friends live in that area, it would probably be more beneficial to stay and have both parents working. Not that Boundless would think of that as an option...but considering extended family and close friends is important to some. Personally, I live 200 miles from most of my family and that is as far away as I ever plan on moving.
14. Emily Hughes said the following at 7:01 PM on Apr 14:
Online dating is an interesting venue for meeting people. I tried a few and had a very negative experience, but when least expecting it, I tried another site, and I've met the most wonderful, Godly man whom without online dating, we would have never met. We complement each other beautifully, and have so much in common regarding life goals, faith, interests, etc. So, there is hope out there.
Sadly, God can't FedEx your mate to you, so finding someone may take work...online dating can be a great tool in expanding your field, as long as you've got the right motives and your head screwed on tight!
15. Kristen said the following at 7:39 PM on Apr 26:
The topic of dating and its discussion in Christian communities has interested me since my teenage years when I read Joshua Harris' "I Kissed Dating Goodbye" and Jeramy Clark's "I Gave Dating a Chance". I thought Eric and Leslie Ludy's "When God Writes Your Love Story" drew a nice line in the middle by encouraging couples and singles to commit their relationships to Christ. It obviously worked for them! Another married woman recently told me that keeping their focus on God helped her and her husband when they were dating.
Looking back, I think I got caught up too much in the concept of dating and missed some possibilities for romance, but God leads in His timing.
I am now in a committed relationship with a man who knows Him and with whom I am considering marriage. Some of our discussions, now and early on, were online via Google chat and others were through email. (He actually remembers first learning about me while chatting with a mutual friend on AIM!) But we really met in person. :) I think the online dating world does not have to originate through EHarmony... communication is multifaceted, and if you are committed to someone, and the attraction is there-- variables a, b, and c can be worked through together.
We recently committed our relationship to God, realizing that without Him , anything we pursue will not be good, because it is not in His will. Do you think this a healthy point of view? Replies welcome.