Let's Talk About Dating, Part 5: Being Proactive
by
Denise Morris
on Mar 19, 2008 at 1:30 PM
As I mentioned before, our romanticized ideas of dating, love and marriage sometimes cause us to sit back and wait for that perfect someone to fall right into our laps. The Christian version of this sentiment usually involves Bible verses plucked from their context and inserted into conversations about relationships.
So, just in case that guy/girl doesn't just magically appear before you one day, this post is about some proactive ways to pursue relationships.
Being proactive can sometimes be more difficult for women -- especially for those who believe that men should be the initiators in relationships. But that doesn't excuse us from being actively involved in the road to marriage. One thing every girl can do is to make herself available to the guy she's interested in. Go to events he'll be at, make an effort to talk to him, let him get to know who you really are.
And sometimes women need to take matters into their own hands. We see this in Ruth's situation, but hers was unusual. For today's women, sometimes being proactive means pulling away from relationships that aren't going anywhere. If the guy you've been hanging out with hasn't "made a move" then it might be necessary to end whatever sort of pseudo relationship you're involved in. The guy is either 1) not interested or 2) too comfortable with the way things are to define things. Either way, you're going nowhere. Although it may be painful and a difficult transition, sometimes the most healthy thing to do is to let it go.
For guys who are interested in pursuing a girl, Nike would tell you to "just do it." I agree. Take the steps to get to know a girl, ask her out and see where it goes. Be intentional about moving forward in the relationship. Be careful with your words and actions, but don't be paralyzed by the fear of something that might not work out in the end.
One thing that I think both sexes can work on when it comes to proactively pursuing dating is communication. We wrote about this on TrueU awhile back, for both the guys and the girls. Talking things out with the person you're interested in can be very helpful, even if it is awkward or uncomfortable. All of this will help you move toward the clarity that Suzanne talked about.
But what if there's just no one to pursue?! I feel ya. Finding the right guy/girl can be a challenge. But what can I do (besides complain) to change the situation?
Well, if I'm invited to hang out with a group of people I don't know very well, I should go. It might be uncomfortable to hang out with strangers, but if I do it, they won't be strangers for long. I could volunteer somewhere, do some social networking, get to know people at my church. Put up signs around my neighborhood (totally kidding!!).
Finally, both men and women need to be proactive in praying for their future spouses. For some reason, this one is difficult for me -- I either forget to do it, or I don't see automatic results so it feels useless. But it's obviously not. The Bible tells us to present our requests to God, and relationships should be no different. Pray for God to prepare you and your spouse for one another. Ask Him to give you wisdom and to bring that right guy/girl along.
Even if being proactive in one situation doesn't result in marrying the guy/girl of your dreams, it doesn't mean it wasn't worth it. If we approach things with the right attitude, God can and does use the relationships in our lives to make us more like Himself.
And, hey, at least no one can say you didn't try.
1. Julie had the following to say on Mar 19 at 1:44 PM:
Denise, you have so much good sense. I love you!
Thanks for not drowning this topic in Christianese.
2. NeedACatchyName had the following to say on Mar 19 at 2:00 PM:
I know I mentioned this on the last thread in this series, but I think it bears repeating. From a guys perspective, one the of the best things that a girl can do to be proactive and increase her chances of finding a potential mate is to always respond in a gracious manner when a guy asks you out, especially if your answer is "no." In much the same way that girls tend to "swap notes" on which guys in a particular social circle have acted in an overly aggressive, creepy, etc. manner towards them so that other girls will know to avoid them, guys also tend to let other guys know which girls rejected them in an overly rude manner or gave them the "indirect rejection" (gave an ambiguous answer and then avoided them for a week or two hoping they would "get the hint." BTW, guys really hate this). Now granted, this doesn't mean that if a guy deserves a rude rejection that you shouldn't give it to him. Some guys try to initiate in very rude manners, and in this case, feel free to give them a rude reply right back. But if a guy is trying to genuinely ask you out in a polite manner, turn him down politely and don't tell all your friends how "creeped out" you were that he asked you out unless he did something legitimately creepy. It says a lot about a girls character when she cares enough to be polite and gracious even when giving a rejection, and guys tend to notice this. But at the same, guys aren't going to ask out a girl who has a reputation for being rude when turning a guy down, because they don't want to work up the courage to ask a girl out only to get their offer to take her out rudely thrown back in their face.
3. Jeni had the following to say on Mar 19 at 2:18 PM:
I don't know Denise, I kind of like the signs around the neighborhood idea! They could be like the little white ones that are stuck in the ground at intersections around town. The ones that say "single?" and give a website.
Which reminds me of the guy in UT whose co-workers took out a billboard advertising for wife applicants. The applicants would apply at a website. Then the co-workers would go through the applications to narrow down the options. Thaere's some serious proactivity!
4. xeres had the following to say on Mar 19 at 2:19 PM:
I enjoyed this series very much. The TrueU.org articles "Straight Talk" and "the Art of Miscommunication" are a classic
5. Lynie had the following to say on Mar 19 at 2:34 PM:
**Feedback from anyone is greatly appreciated!
I appreciate you briefly addressing the situation of having no one to pursue, as that is often passed over in dating articles. Often I feel that everyone else lives a world full of available Christian singles....and somehow I landed in the country's only wasteland.
Ok. So you advise us to be open to social networking and meeting new people. Great.
I have a question though: how far out of your circles can you safetly venture?
I attend a church with very few singles, and a solid majority of women. (4-1) I've considered trying to network into local singles groups from other churches but then it becomes almost a DEFINITE that any men I meet will have dramatically different theology. I'm a Calvinist, which is pretty rare in my town, and feel that its prudent to seek out men with similar theology.
I'd REALLY appreciate some new perspectives on this issue because the only answer I've gotten from anyone is "Stop worrying about it. Things will work themselves out." That's fine and dandy, but at the same time I'd like to know if I can (should) be doing something more.
Is it asking for trouble to put myself in a situation where I might meet someone...but that someone will most likely hold very different theological views?
6. Sarah had the following to say on Mar 19 at 2:58 PM:
What if none of the opportunities you mentioned come up in one's life? I honestly never meet new people and I'm not sure what to do about that. I'm 22 years old, I was home educated and the friends I had when I was younger I don’t see anymore (they are either on very sad paths in their life or moved away) I went to community college, I've worked a couple jobs in a female dominated career field (Physician's offices) which is OK but I never made deep friendships with anyone because no one was saved/went to church/etc. I was still friendly but no Christ based friendships developed and now I have quit my job and I am taking care of my elderly/ill Grandmother at her home most days of the week. My church is small and we have had one new young person attend in the last 5 years. All the youth are much younger than me (14-17) or related to me (my brothers, myself, and a couple who are dating are the only "college aged" young adults in my church) - I am not complaining about this, just being realistic. I LOVE my church, I've been going there for my entire life. I was saved there, baptized there and can't see myself anywhere else as far as my regular services. I think one of my main problems is that I really don't even have any saved Christian friends. The girl I was closest to and hung out with most before I was saved 2 years ago is not saved and while I do see her and care about her and try to be a witness to her, there is no fellowship there. I am caught between a rock and a hard place. What should I do? My best friend I’ve known since I was 10 who is a Christian lives about 600 miles away (I moved away from her when we were younger), we do talk and fellowship over the phone/internet but it’s not quit the same. I guess I really have two desires; I want to have Christian friends and put myself in places where I could meet Christian men. I am open to change if it will help me find a husband (and friends) but I’m not sure what I should change in order to help my circumstances. I hope this post makes sense.
7. Tim had the following to say on Mar 19 at 3:09 PM:
"Well, if I'm invited to hang out with a group of people I don't know very well, I should go. It might be uncomfortable to hang out with strangers, but if I do it, they won't be strangers for long."
I have a few female friends (all quite a bit older than me) who would be wise to accept this advice. All of them are in their mid-20's, want to be married, and seem saddened that it has not happened yet.
However, they never seem to pursue social situations that would include eligible men of their own age. They are not going to meet men if they only hang out with other women. Girls who want to be married would be wise to take advantage of every opportunity to hang out with men (hopefully women are around too).
8. Jo had the following to say on Mar 19 at 3:33 PM:
Okay, completely theoretical situation (cough):
Girl meets guy, guy seems cool, girl decides to be proactive and get to know him better, which to begin with goes well - they have lots in common etc.
While still in the first stages of getting to know each other though, guy starts relationship with someone else.
Girl feels that a) guy is someone who could be a good friend and b) guy is someone who in other circumstances could have 'potential'.
What should she do? Obviously she should respect the relationship, but is it still okay/wise to continue being proactive in getting to know the guy, or should she back away completely, or something in between?
Advice for my fictional friend would be much appreciated...
9. Derek Wong had the following to say on Mar 19 at 3:41 PM:
I'm really enjoying these articles. They're more thoughtful and extensive explanations of ideas that I've been starting to believe in recent years. I appreciate them!
10. Laura had the following to say on Mar 19 at 4:07 PM:
This sort of thing frustrates me to no end -- the idea that we EITHER "trust the Lord" OR work to attain the things we want. Have we forgotten that, in 99% of circumstances, God uses ordinary means to accomplish his purposes?
Perhaps the best example I can come up with is having children. When your parents decided it was time for them to grow their family, they didn't sleep in separate bedrooms and pray fervently for God to grant them children. They took advantage of the ordinary means by which God has ordained that humans reproduce.
The ordinary means by which God has ordained marriage is godly relationships. While this leaves room for a lot of flexibility in the particulars, it undoubtedly precludes certain ungodly behaviors -- things like manipulation and deceit, as well as things like laziness and fear.
Christian single men need to trust the Lord WHILE cultivating godly characteristics and actively seeking out a godly wife. Christian single women, similarly, need to trust the Lord WHILE striving to grow in godliness and being available to the pursuit of godly men.
11. Paul H had the following to say on Mar 19 at 4:40 PM:
Excellent article, Denise. Just one small quibble:
"Finally, both men and women need to be proactive in praying for their future spouses. ... Pray for God to prepare you and your spouse for one another."
God can't prepare your future spouse for you because He doesn't know who your future spouse is. Contrary to everything we were taught in Sunday School (or seminary), God does not exist outside of time.
Read this "Genesis to Revelation Bible Summary" and notice how God experiences past, present and future (even in eternity past, before creation, and in eternity future), not a timeless existence, as the pagan Greek philosophers who influenced much of our theology believed.
For more, read => "Openness Theology - Does God Know Your Entire Future?"
Thanks for encouraging marriage-minded singles to pursue marriage intentionally! (And I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the signs around the neighborhood, even. Whatever it takes.)
12. Rachael had the following to say on Mar 19 at 5:04 PM:
I appreciate the comment in this post that "For today's women, sometimes being proactive means pulling away from relationships that aren't going anywhere." I think the 'pulling away' can be stretched to include 'letting go' of particular hopes. Good point.
Also in the post: "if I'm invited to hang out with a group of people I don't know very well, I should go." Soon a new acquaintance and I will do the very same thing. Just try it. Yep. :)
You know, I think a friend of mine (who is very involved w/ her church) doesn't put herself in outside communities. The way I look at it is that there can be other good things that come out of trying various things, even if a guy doesn't. :)
Finally, good reminder to proactively pray.
Thanks-
13. BDB had the following to say on Mar 19 at 5:08 PM:
Jo (#8) wrote:
>>Advice for my fictional friend would be much appreciated...<<
Hmmm...your friend might find some of Elisabeth Elliot's theories challenging. In addition to taking men to task about not initiating, she has a lot to say about the confusion that ensues when women take the initiative. Not all women do this - but there's a lot out there in the secular world pushing women pretty hard to take the initiative.
I had a, um, friend who would regularly get invited to things by women. Seemed great. But eventually they would get upset for some unknown reason. No big deal, there was always another woman with an invitation handy.
What convinced me that EE was right was watching some of these women I've known for 10 years, always seem to be attached, yet never get any closer to marriage. I realized that they were taking the initiative. If they don't have a boyfriend, they immediately set about the task of getting a new boyfriend, and make him their hobby. After a while, he breaks up with them and marries someone else.
Lather, rinse, repeat.
Not entirely sure this is an empirically provable position. But it seems to prove true over time.
14. Kelly had the following to say on Mar 19 at 6:29 PM:
I read this and it brought a smile to my face due to recent events in my life. I met somebody, who I just started dating, when I was asked to be one of the female chaparones for the high school kids at church to a youth event. Sounds weird, huh? I too am in the very small young adult population in my church who seem to not be able to connect. We go to service and that is about it. The Youth director likes having young professionals (i'm 24 and have a great job with the federal gov't) to be role models for the youth. I thought about turning the request down. The male chaparone had a friend who works in the area we were going to (VA Beach) who joined us for dinner the one night we took the kids out. We connected, he is in my age bracket and found out he is moving back up this way (DC area) to get anohter job. Things have taken off from there.
Never in a million years would I have thought chaparoning high school kids could lead to something. And I am one of those that NEVER gets a date.
15. Kaitlin had the following to say on Mar 19 at 7:23 PM:
JO,
I know that this is probably not what you want to hear, but.....
The Young man is taken (for now) respect that girl.
Exercise Love.
It is selfless and kind and does not seek its own.
Obviously you care for the youngman. Be a Sister-in-Christ to him. I am not saying to hope he sees that you are way better, godlier than his gf, this can get competitive....
You will have to guard your heart.
Be a friend.... if they break up...then who knows?
but maybe there is someone else for you... if you see that the relationship that he is in now looks promising....back awayyyyy if you can't control your emotions. why would you want to be with someone else's hubby???!
16. Emily had the following to say on Mar 19 at 7:58 PM:
#8 I understand how your situation might be frustrating. It might feel like you never got your chance, and maybe that it is a bit unfair. I, however, am on the other end of the situation and it might help to hear from the girlfriend's perspective. It makes me really uncomfortable when girls who I know are (or have been) interested in my boyfriend pursue a deepening friendship with him. I understand maintianing old friendships and even making new ones, but the girls that are hanging around like they're waiting in line actually put a strain on my relationship with my boyfriend. Ultimately I trust him, but I feel disrespected when girls entertain feelings for him and don't keep an unambiguous distance.
17. Jo had the following to say on Mar 19 at 9:33 PM:
Laura,
Your example about not praying for children while sleeping in separate rooms is a BRILLIANT one. I'll definitely be using that one in my next "Wait on the Lord Vs Pursue Marriage" discussion. A friend the other day was trying to tell me that the most godly relationships he knew were ones where they had both been focusing on God instead of 'looking' for a relationship, and I tried to suggest that it doesn't have to be an either/or situation, but he totally didn't get my viewpoint. The idea of contentment and proactivity being somehow mutually exclusive seems so prevalent in some Christian circles, and it's very difficult to sort the Biblical from the Almost-Biblical (as someone said on another thread). Very frustrating. I'm grateful to Boundless actually, for setting me straight on that one.
18. James had the following to say on Mar 19 at 10:18 PM:
Lynie (#5), where I am, so FEW available girls are Calvinist and so many are charismatic (and very sympathetic to the Arminian view at best) that it's hard for me as a guy as well. Not to say that there are not any godly young women around....it's just that I know that most of them I would take serious theological issue with some of their deeply held beliefs.
I know I'd LOVE it if I got active feedback from some of the married people I know. Because, I'll admit it: as a guy, I NEED HELP here. I'm a total stranger to some of the conventions that girls I WOULD desire to pursue take for granted that I feel like a total alien who cannot speak the language and there is no one around who will help me by "flying wingman" (stop me when I'm about to stick my foot in my mouth unintentionally, or completely miss something I shouldn't) and help me learn this. Now, I think for my situation I need to work on being more content in God, but not to the extreme others have pointed towards when giving advice (more of the quietist view to getting married: stop desiring it and it'll happen).
So, I feel you on the frustration of finding a compatible person to even consider who is available.
Now, to all, here's an idea: Most of us who post here seem to have very similar frustrations. How about instead of always venting about it, we pray for each other. Not always for ourselves, but focus on praying for others. So, we can know that others are praying for us, while we are praying for them as well. As He says, "The prayers of a righteous man accomplisheth much" (I probably just slaughtered the KJV passage there).
And while we pray for each other, also be proactive (in the right doses in the right way, you might say). I've found that putting energy into praying and rejoicing with others in their joys to be a great treatment to the feelings of "Where's my spouse, Lord!" It also grows us in developing love for other believers, which is an attractive quality to a Godly potential spouse. There are 4 (2 couples) of my good Godly friends who just got married, and the funny thing is that while the 2 ladies in that group were girls I wanted to pursue, two other Godly brothers married them instead. Yet, I love those 4 so much that when they began dating, I couldn't help but rejoice with them. THOSE feelings of rejoicing with them was worship to the Lord for what He had done. Talk about FREEING.
SO, let us pray for each other here as well. And while we do our small part, let us be content that God is working in us, and continue to hope in Him.
19. Christina had the following to say on Mar 19 at 11:26 PM:
Laura #10,
Through all my changing and shifting over the last year, the one thing that's been hit upon quite clearly is that God gives life to those that have made way for him to give it.
He gives strength to those that need strength, courage to those that need courage, peace to those that need peace.
Being proactive is simply putting yourself in a position where God is free to work through you. Putting yourself out there and saying "God, here I am, help me" and actually relaxing and trusting that he WILL is trusting God and being proactive.
Its amazing the freedom I felt when I got out of my shell and DID something. I was scared out of my mind, nervous to the point of shaking uncontrollably, and just prayed my socks off. Nothing happened as far as boys are concerned, but one thing's for sure - I learned that if I put myself out there, God provides me the needs to live the life that I'm taking the risk to live.
20. Jeremiah had the following to say on Mar 19 at 11:50 PM:
I'm 21, and I've felt the same as Sarah since high school, but not all my friends have gone down the wrong roads, or moved away (yet). It seems odd when you think that quite a few people within your church identify themselves as lonely when not many of them have any kind of active connections outside of church. While i was still at college, i thought it stunk that all the CCC alumni would generally enjoy each other without getting to know new people, but that's why they have retreats and things like TCX; I went to a men's only retreat in the twin cities with my area campuses' cru's, and found out a lot about why and what their groups did just by participating in the different things they'd planned, especially when we went and did some community work and asked folks to a local event at a church nearby. I very highly recommend any activity involving a chance to interact with people from your area churches and getting in touch with folks around the area, not just missions walks, but with secular events in general. Easy to say, harder to do, yes, but it's not beyond our capabilities! HOPE,HOPE,HOPE!
~(remember this?) Jeremiah 29:11-13~
21. David R had the following to say on Mar 19 at 11:53 PM:
Laura wrote:
>Perhaps the best example I can come up with is having children. When your parents decided it was time for them to grow their family, they didn't sleep in separate bedrooms and pray fervently for God to grant them children.<
Speak for your own parents, that's exactly what mine did. Nothing more. Ever.
22. Jacob had the following to say on Mar 20 at 1:09 AM:
Good thoughts, Laura (#10). Sometimes we forget that God works through those "secondary means." Not everything is a burning bush a voice after an earthquake.
23. Gitts had the following to say on Mar 20 at 2:12 AM:
Denise thank you for 'borrowing' the Nike Line.
I've come to realize that capa diem- sieze they day could be biblical. Note what Jesus Christ says here. Matt 6: 34 "Therefore do not be anxious about tomorrow, for tomorrow will be anxious for itself. Sufficient for the day is its own trouble."
Taking life one day at a time is good. Chances have to be taken but life is all about challenges. Wish I always lived like this
24. Carl had the following to say on Mar 20 at 5:46 AM:
Sarah (post #6)- I could have written an identical post! I'm not kidding! Could you be my long lost twin separated at birth? lol.
Current situations and the future can seem bleak sometimes but we all need to remember that God is sovereign and in total control! His plan is perfect, individually crafted for each of us.
25. obewan had the following to say on Mar 20 at 6:21 AM:
5. Lynie #5 says”
“…it becomes almost a DEFINITE that any men I meet will have dramatically different theology. I'm a Calvinist, which is pretty rare in my town, and feel that its prudent to seek out men with similar theology.”
You may be overly concerned about this issue. Is Calvinism really “rare” or just misunderstood and not talked about by many. My experience has shown me that most people believe in BOTH “free will” AND the “doctrine of the elect”. But, then I attend a large mainstream mega church that does not take a firm stance on the subject either way. On something like Calvinism that is not essential to the fundamentals, my church takes the position that the individual believer should study the scriptures and arrive at their own conclusion.
The question you need to ask is how meeting someone ambivalent to the doctrine of Calvinism would impact the relationship. Don’t we need to STILL evangelize regardless of which doctrinal position we take up? Or, would you see yourself getting into arguments with a spouse that has a heavy burden to support missions if you see some of the unreached people groups as not being among the elect anyway?
It would not matter to me if I met a Calvinist; because, my take is that the door to salvation says, “whosoever will may come” on the entry side, and “chosen from the foundations of time” on the exit side. I simply feel it is not worth the argument time because it has no impact on my getting saved or living my life for God. Either way, the same scriptures apply to my life when issues like discipleship are considered.
26. Lucie had the following to say on Mar 20 at 7:29 AM:
Jo #8 - I suspect you already know what to do in answer to your "theoretical" question. If you're still not sure, put yourself in the other girl's place - the one the potentially good male friend/etc. has started a relationship with. Would you really want another girl to be "proactive" in getting to know him better while you were dating him? What raises a red flag to me is your "b" statement that the guy "in other circumstances could have potential." The fact is, as you know, that he is NOT in other circumstances right now. So I would have to say, yes, do back away. If he ends up getting to know you as a friend on his own initiative, fine.
27. Sarah P. had the following to say on Mar 20 at 7:56 AM:
Great post, and good comments. I just had a few thoughts for the other Sarah (#6):
Girl, it sounds like you either need a change of scenery, or you need your dad to start advertising for betrothal. ;) Because it sounds like there is very little incentive for a young Christian man of your age to move into your closed circle. I don't know how you can make a change happen, but it might be good to consider that it is necessary. When and if you are married, you probably will not always be attending the same church you are now, for example. So it might be good to consider the possibility of extending your circle now. But what do I know? Change is hard and fearful.
28. Christina had the following to say on Mar 20 at 8:06 AM:
Communication! The one thing that drives me nuts about a "potential relationship" is when a guy says "hey, let's hang out" or "hey, let's do something" and he clearly intends it to be a date.
I like to take things for what people say they are and not what they seem to be (I'm often wrong in my assumptions). So if we're going on a date, please have the decency to tell me so. You don't need to give me 100 reasons why you like me, just tell me it's a date.
I've come to the understanding that is unfair and not honoring to force a woman to assume your intentions. Am I wrong?
Sorry to rant, I would take the time to rewrite this in an un-offensive, point-the-finger manner, but I'm running late. I'm also very passionate about this topic, apparently.
29. a sassy sister had the following to say on Mar 20 at 8:20 AM:
Laura,
I absolutely agree that both single men and women in Christ need to trust the Lord, striving in godliness. But if you really study Scripture, you'll understand that is something that all believers should be pursuing, regardless of our marital status! There needs to be balance in regards to the being proactive about pursuing a spouse. To be totally honest with you, when a man or woman is doing what God is instructing them to do in their relationships and being a good steward of EVERYTHING that God has given them (spiritually, emotionally, financially, etc.), it is not very difficult for opportunities to arise when it comes to marriage. However, there is a difference between doing that and being motivated by a desire to BE MARRIED ABOVE EVERYTHING. I desire marriage and family. But I don't want my desire to be based on fear, based on winning the approval and acceptance of the church, or even the desire for significance. And for a time, it was. I wanted to be married because then I thought that I wouldn't be on the outside and treated like there was something wrong with me because I wasn't married by a certain age.
Everyone's life is different and unique. As believers, we all follow God's Word as the standard for living. However, when it comes to God's plans for people in their individual lives, that happens in different ways. Marriage is a wonderful covenant, but church culture needs to stop putting singles in a box when it comes to this. Some people will marry early. Some people will marry later. But God is not merely looking at your actions; he is also checking our motives and attitudes regarding our actions. We need to accept our differences as believers and use them to edify the body of Christ and glorify God, regardless of whether there's a Mr. or Mrs. in front of their name.
30. Jennifer E. Jones had the following to say on Mar 20 at 8:55 AM:
I'm in the middle of testing out the advice that I'm about to give. So take this worth a grain of salt. However, I am in complete agreement about being proactive.
I used to be one of those people who never met anyone new, was surrounded by other women and couldn't remember the last date I'd had.
You know what I did? I moved. Seriously, I found a new job in a big city, picked up my sad little single life and moved.
Here's the deal: you're never going to meet new people until you get out of your comfort zone. If you're stuck in a rut, you've got to shake things up -- majorly, if necessary.
I'm with Denise in that going to a party where you don't know anyone is nerve-racking. But it's worth it. Make friendships with people who aren't necessarily "your type". You'll be introduced to new social circles.
No matter who you are, dating is still a numbers game. The more people you meet, the more likely you'll meet someone special (or at least interesting).
I've only been in the city for five weeks, but I'm already going out, meeting all kinds of people and having new experiences. It's been uncomfortable at times, but it beats sitting at home complaining.
P.S. NeedACatchyName's post (#2) was spot on. I'm going to be more genuine and kind when it comes to guys asking me out.
31. Becky had the following to say on Mar 20 at 9:39 AM:
Again, this series of posts is the most insightful and helpful of any I've read on Boundless.
Thanks, Denise and Suzanne!!!
32. Amir Larijani had the following to say on Mar 20 at 10:54 AM:
Christina says:
A really good friend--one who is even closer than a brother--once said, "let your yes be yes and your no be no."Now granted, He was referring in specificity to the practice of making oaths and basing their obligations on whether they swore by certain things.
On the other hand, Jesus was expressing something that I often call an operative principle: say what you mean and mean what you say.
So, to make a long story short, no...you're not being unreasonable.
Keep in mind however, that the standard also applies both ways.
What we call passive-aggressive behavior we used to call dishonesty.
33. Rachael had the following to say on Mar 20 at 11:22 AM:
Re: change of scenery/proactivity
To tack onto Jennifer's tip about moving, even if people don't move, they could try adding on or changing social circles, which might mean going into a bigger city that is not a suburb. Seems to me that there might be more single young adults living in the city than in suburbia. I'm not dating, but my horizons have broadened over the past months. I changed churches (from one in suburbia to one in the city, which is closer to where I live anyway), not to find someone, but I think the major reason boiled down to the sense of community. I've really felt drawn into and appreciative of the community of my current church and am making some new friends and acquaintances there. I'm really glad I changed (though I still am helping out at one thing at my old church).
I have also recently dropped or largely dropped a particular Christian, (not church specific) community that I was really involved with. Some wonderful people there, but I felt I should step down. But recently I also added in a Bible Study that people from various churches (and possibly no church) attend.
So I feel like my social scenery is changing. Doesn't mean we forget our friends of the past. There's some line of a song that says something like "Make new friends but don't forget the old."
For me a change in my social scenery has been a good thing, I think.
Some may be inclined to believe that it is not good for gals to put themselves out there (instead relying upon God's sovereignty and maybe in seeking contentment in Him). I believe the above does not have to be mutually exclusive.
34. Ethan had the following to say on Mar 20 at 11:56 AM:
I agree with Jennifer #30. It seems like there's some major gender inbalance around different areas in the country. while I'm hearing some people here mention the female:male ratio is something ridiculous like 4:1 in their church, the situation here where I'm at is exactly in the reverse direction. There're way more men than women. If I could, I would seriously move to a small town where there's a better gender balance for the purpose of finding a girl to marry, but it isn't realistic for someone in my field of work to do that. But if you CAN move, I think you would be surprised how different things are in different places in the country. Especially if you are a girl and live in a high-tech career area.. The Christian social scene around my network are consistently 3:1 male to female, filled with incredibly bright and Godly single guys (not to mention, with very promising futures) that I would marry my own sister to (if I had one). I am constantly surprised how all these guys are all single, but the fact is, there just aren't many girls around. This is just a completely different picture than what many of you have been describing here...
35. Rachael had the following to say on Mar 20 at 12:25 PM:
Ethan - interesting! I have never seen the 3:1 balance as a regular thing in my neck of the city. I wonder if a similar thing (not gender related, but location related) can be said for churches. I am really enjoying my church (to which I'm relatively new), but somehow I have this impression that there are more churches having some of the characteristics (theological, community, [not men/women stuff]) I would be attracted to on a particular coast from which I live opposite. I could be wrong, but from what I've heard this is my guess. And one time I saw a comment on here that provided slightly more confirmation. Interesting. Would be really fun to do a big road trip and experience the different cultures and 'Christian cultures' across the U.S., and serve in places along the way. Maybe one day...
36. Jacob had the following to say on Mar 20 at 1:10 PM:
To Paul H (#11)
Open Theism is heresy. The god of such a belief system can hardly be called a god. The God of Scripture does not make "predictions," he makes pronouncements. The Christian God does not sit around, wringing his hands, hoping things will work out ok. God was not sharing with us a guess as to how things would turn out in Revelation. No, he told us what will happen.
Sir, your god is no the God of Scripture. You have fallen into heresy, and I pray that my God, who knows all things and is sovereign over ever part of you, will show you grace.
37. Tim had the following to say on Mar 20 at 1:16 PM:
#25 obewan
I think you gave some great advice to Lynie. In this day and age with people attending a lot of non-denominational churches it is highly likely that people will end up dating people that may share differently beliefs on minor issues. I am pretty sure that I will not end up marrying a women who shares all my theological views (I have pretty different views on end-times issues compared to most people). However, I won't let our differences on minor issues stop us from entering into a relationship.
Lynie, perhaps there is a great godly man out there for you except that he tends to hold a more Arminian view. Will it bother you that he cares about street witnessing? Will you enter into fights over the issue?
The bottom-line is that many Christians nowadays hold slightly different views on some issues, but most agree on the essentials. If we try to find a spouse who shares every single doctrinal view that we have than there are going to be a lot of single people out there!
38. Lynie had the following to say on Mar 20 at 2:30 PM:
James (#14)
Doesn’t God’s placement of His people strike you as ironic? His ways are inscrutable...and although I know that His plan is right, sometimes I wonder at what on earth He’s doing. And as for your suggestion about prayer, it’s a good idea. If nothing else, it would help my tendency to be self-centered and too focused on my desires and needs.
Obewan (#25)
You’re right—I may be overly concerned. That’s why I asked the question, to see if I was being unreasonable. :) It is, in my experience, rare to find someone outside of a Calvinistic church who understands and believes in the 5 points of Calvinism. Those with whom I’ve discussed it either have no idea or interest in the subject, or have the wrong idea about what I really believe. However, I do agree with you that there are exceptions and there might well be Calvinisticly inclined believers in a non-Calvinistic church.
Concerning your comment about missions, I’m not sure if you’re suggesting that I believe that as a part of my Calvinistic convictions but if that IS what you’re saying I wanted to clear that up. I believe that we are commanded to share the gospel and “evangelize” all we can. It is not our responsibility or prerogative to attempt to “figure out” who is elect and who isn’t. The very thought is ridiculous—we can’t know that sort of thing. Instead, we are to share the gospel whenever we are given the opportunity and take our place as instruments that the Lord will use to bring His people to Himself.
But then, this wasn’t supposed to turn into a debate on Calvinism. Sorry—not trying to hijack. Just wanted to clear that up.
Finally, you say that you wouldn’t mind meeting a Calvinist because, in your mind, it all ends up the same. There’s the rub, for me. While I don’t believe that one’s stance on the Doctrines of Grace affects, in any way, your salvation or your walk with Christ, I DO believe that it affects your view of God and salvation. And there will be one day when I teach my children these things and there is where I believe the arguments with a non-Calvinistic spouse would erupt. Do I teach my children the principles of election, atonement, etc? Will my husband tell them one thing and I another?
If I was merely to walk with someone through life in a mutual journey towards heaven, as I do with all my brothers-and-sisters in Christ, then I would have no quibble on issues of doctrine. However, when throwing kids into the mix, I’d better be assured that he will be teaching my children things that I believe to be true.
39. NeedACatchyName had the following to say on Mar 20 at 2:32 PM:
I will echo what Ethan said in post #34 about high-tech areas. While I realize that moving to an area just to hunt for a spouse is a bit drastic, if you're a girl and looking to do so, you could do much worse than moving to a high-tech area. I live in a city known for it's high tech industry*, and I can't think of a singles group in town that doesn't have more guys than girls. Male/female ratios of 2:1, 3:1, and even 4:1 are fairly common in church singles groups. As an added bonus, careers in high tech areas tend to be very stable and well paying, so most of these guys have the types of jobs that could easily support a family. And since their job situation is stable, they tend to be very marriage minded (which creates an incredible amount of competition for young ladies among us guys, especially since there are unfortunately not enough girls for every guy who wants to date to be dating).
So, for the trillionth time I have to ask, what should a guy do in a situation like this (assuming moving is not an option)? I have my own ideas but I need to get back to work, so I'll let other people answer for now and I may chime in later.
* Because I work in a rather sensitive area of high tech industry, I'd rather not identify it further.
40. Jacob had the following to say on Mar 20 at 4:46 PM:
Tim (in regards to #37)
As a single Calvinist man, I can sympathize with Lynie. One thing that is worth keeping in mind is that to some of us, what you regard to be "minor" issues are a little bit more important. Frankly, as I think ahead to my responsibilities as the spiritual head of my (hoped for) family, one thing that comes to mind is "where will we worship?" If my family's spiritual welfare is something I am responsible to God for, than answering this question is going to be a big deal. As a Calvinist, I am firm in my convictions that my particular expression of Christianity is the most biblical of them, and thus, I would not in good conscience, unless there were no other alternatives, be able to place my family under the authority of a church that does not hold to those doctrines. Marrying an Arminian girl would make every sunday a battle. Further, put children into the mix and you have to ask how you will teach them. If I'm a Calvinist and she's an Arminian, how will we explain the doctrine of salvation to our children? It's only confusing to them when daddy is telling them that it is wholly depending upon God and mommy tells them that it partially depends on us. So you see, there are very real and practical considerations in this issue, and things that you may only see as minor might be considered to be more important to someone else (such as your spouse).
41. Suzanne had the following to say on Mar 20 at 11:15 PM:
Seriously, where do you all live? It sounds like there are more than enough godly men and women to go around, so why are we all still bemoaning our single status? Ethan (#34), why don't you send about half of the guys you know over to my church, and I'll swap you for some godly women.
After about six months, we can all meet up in Colorado Springs for a mass wedding :-)
42. Lynie had the following to say on Mar 21 at 8:01 AM:
My response to obewan (#25) wasn't posted. I'm not sure why? As far as I can tell there was nothing augmentative or inflammatory in my reply. To Boundless staff, PLEASE let me know if you found it inappropriate. I apologize if that was the case.
Tim #37, Please allow me clear up a misconception that both you and obewan seem to have about Calvinism. I’m sure that many people reading this blog have the same idea about believers who hold to the Doctrines of Grace because it is indeed a commonly held misconception! Let me clearly state: Calvinists are not opposed to evangelism.
I believe, as do the vast majority of Calvinists I know, that we are called to share the gospel with the world. Period. GOD is responsible for bringing fruit from our evangelistic efforts; we are merely called to be instruments. Can we know someone’s heart? No. Can we know whether they are one of God’s people? No. Are we commanded to share the gospel every single chance we have? ABSOLUTELY. That includes efforts such as street evangelism, when appropriate, and other efforts.
There are those who believe that “evangelism is a waste of time because, after all, God will do it anyway.” I can’t answer for those people or what they believe because they do not represent the vast majority of Calvinists and I do not know where they ground that belief.
YES, there are many issues that I believe Arminians and Calvinists differ that might cause conflict between a husband and wife who have different beliefs. The importance of sharing the gospel should NOT be one of them.
43. James had the following to say on Mar 21 at 5:09 PM:
Guys, while your concerns for Lynie are good, I think you've missed the boat here.
The calvinism/arminianism thing is VERY important, as which view you hold very much shapes your view of God. I know that I could not marry a woman who was of the belief that you could lose your salvation. Yes, we don't (or should expect) to find a spouse who holds all of our theological views, but there are some important ones, like how we view God and His sovereignty that DO matter. Especially to those of us who are convinced calvinists, as it is a very dear and close matter to our hearts.
That's one reason many calvinists (like myself) can get very passionate about those particular points of theology: we who have been convinced of them hold them very dear, as they are foundational points of truth by which we know God. They are foundational to who He is and how He works. We see and understand the implications, and on the list of "things you can not believe and still be saved", the doctrines of grace are very much at the top.
Lynie, keep looking, and trusting.
44. Jim had the following to say on Mar 21 at 5:10 PM:
To Paul H #11.
Not only is "Openness Theology" heresy, it is stupid. If God is bound within time, how did he bring time and space into being? Only a being that transcends time and space can create a universe out of nothing.
It seems people are always looking something new that tickles their imagination (on the surface) rather than adhering to orthodoxy so they can appear "enlightened."
45. BDB had the following to say on Mar 22 at 12:51 PM:
NeedACatchyName (#39) wrote:
>>So, for the trillionth time I have to ask, what should a guy do in a situation like this?<<
Tell them which city, for one thing.
I've heard stories about women hitting on geeks in bars in Redmond, WA because of all the Microsoft millionaires. Never seen it personally, but I've heard stories...
46. BDB had the following to say on Mar 22 at 2:25 PM:
Regarding Lynie, Jacob and James...
These kinds of theological question are important for people besides Calvinists, too.
A couple of weeks ago I was talking with a woman who was explaining that he boyfriend broke up with her over a few things. For exmple, she wanted t pray in tongues for her children, he was not OK with that. Other people take very seriously all the New Testament admonisions to care for the poor; that's one that will significantly impact how money is spent within a marriage, so it really should be a point of agreement.
The only thing I'd suggest is that there are lots of people who've never been exposed to some of these ideas. So, it may be worth your time to explain to someone the points of your theology. And it's also worth your time to listen and understand someone else's point of view.
47. Amir Larijani had the following to say on Mar 22 at 5:35 PM:
BDB: Maybe that's my problem. I'm a geek, but not a millionaire geek.
48. BDB had the following to say on Mar 22 at 9:40 PM:
Amir (47) wrote:
>>Maybe that's my problem. I'm a geek, but not a millionaire geek.<<
Perhaps if you could invent a spell-checker that could be integrated into typepad, it could be your "killer app..."
49. Jeremy had the following to say on Mar 22 at 10:45 PM:
Openness Theology is indeed wrong, but God does exist within time. Time is merely the expression of sequence -- two events occuring non-simultaneously. It is clear from Scripture that God experiences reality in this way; indeed the very first three words of the Bible are a time expression.
This seems like an important distinction to me because the misconception that God exists somehow "outside" of time leads to all kinds of ridiculous and non-sensical statements. God's existing outside of time would mean that from his perspective, all events that are (from our perspective) past, present, or future, happen simultaneously. I am writing this right now and living in the New Jerusalem at exactly the same time, from God's perspective. This is simply false, and easily seen as false from the statements God makes about himself, the past, and the future.
I think the source of this misconception for many is C.S. Lewis's metaphor of an author, who exists outside the timeline of his book, and thus can "enter" the timeline at any point; he could write about one event first and a second event later which occurs before the first event in the book's timeline. This metaphor could be used to argue for God's existence in an alternate timeline, but not for his existence outside of time. Even in the metaphor, the author must be inside of time for the words "first" and "later" to have any meaning.
50. Amanda L had the following to say on Mar 23 at 11:05 AM:
Well, as for going out and doing stuff with new groups of people, I'd love to.
It just hasn't been a possibility.
My younger brother actually has quite a network of friends, which includes several young, single, Christian men my age, but he doesn't appear to want to involve me in his social circle, so I never get the opportunity to actually converse with any of these men.
Grr.
Our church is tiny, but has now merged with two other small churches. Still very few single young people.
I may only be 20, but honestly, I would love to be married and having kids at this point.
Considering the fact that I dont have my own vehicle or license, and that I'm rather shy about meeting new people, I don't really see what my chances are of widening my social circle.
Frustrating to say the least.
51. Jacob had the following to say on Mar 23 at 3:07 PM:
Jeremy,
It is important to keep in mind that God's attributes are infinite and that does indeed make a difference.
I'm not really following you here: I am writing this right now and living in the New Jerusalem at exactly the same time, from God's perspective. This is simply false, and easily seen as false from the statements God makes about himself, the past, and the future.
Why exactly is it false? Second, you go from talking about your space/time location to talking about God's statements about himself. I don't see how your space-time position has much relevance on God's unchanging attributes.
52. Rachael had the following to say on Mar 24 at 2:57 PM:
re: thought of theology and potential mates
-->It's important to me, though I'd be okay with some differences. There's still a lot I want to learn. And I think my views now are more inwardly defined, and potentially somewhat different or clear, than they were even when I was in college. And some views I had in college were quite different than when I was as a child, even though I've been a Christian since a very young age. Not sure how much more I'll change theologically :), though my guess and hope is that my views and faith will deepen and strengthen over time. I want to learn more and also of course gain familiarity and insight from the Scriptures themselves. Interesting. And I know I never will be solidly clear about every 'issue'...now I 'see in a mirror dimly'...but one day, one day...and even if that 'one day' comes in heaven, it won't necessarily matter, will it...?
53. Tami had the following to say on Mar 24 at 3:08 PM:
Giggling to myself about the comments of the high male-female ratios in high-tech-area churches. That is... giggling because I live in one such area, and I'm still single. :) [I myself am not techy.]
I have noticed a pattern: these high guy-to-girl ratios seem to show up mostly at the bigger, more well-known churches. Perhaps this is because these areas have a more transient population -- people move here for jobs, and go to the first solid church they hear about (which is generally well known because it's bigger than the others, or has a well-known pastor). -- understandable, especially when you're moving to a new place.
However, at these particular churches, I tend to see the men standing around in packs, talking with themselves. If a woman comes around, they either completely ignore her, or swarm around her -- thus leaving the women feeling either ignored or smothered. To be fair, many of the women in these groups do give off the "unapproachable" vibe -- even to other women.
I know this is not a true analysis for all you men, so please pardon the broad, sweeping generalizations.
While it may seem like these bigger churches may offer more opportunities for meeting and connecting with a lot of people (and they do, on a certain level) -- I think it's easier to get plugged in at a smaller church.
So perhaps it's worth taking a risk and branching out to visit a smaller church that's still strong on biblical fundamentals? They are out there! In my particular area, I know of really good Baptist, Calvary Chapel, nondenominational, and 5-point-Calvinist churches that are small, but solid. They're multigenerational -- people of all ages mix. Except for the Calvary Chapels, they also *tend* to be older churches: meaning, they were established prior to 1965. And they're hungry for solid young men looking to make a difference for Christ. One thing to add: your presence WILL be noticed. ;)
54. Amir Larijani had the following to say on Mar 24 at 5:42 PM:
Tami:
Where I live, I'm not finding that even in the smaller churches. I'm thinking the women of the state have conspired to hide from me wherever I go. (That last sentence was attempted post-workout humor.)
Seriously...I've just defected from a congregation--at which the people generally accepted me--because I feel so out of place as the only single person in a body of 200+ people. I told the pastor, "No offense to you guys, this would be a perfect church if I were married and had kids."
My previous church was one notch short of megachurch, and the singles class had lots of women--over 50. In my age bracket? One. And she doesn't want to marry. Go figure.
Before that? I was at a smaller church. Three single gals in the church. One was dating the youth minister; one was dating a non-believer; one was dating a guy in the church, then bolted after he broke up with her. (He had strung her along for three years.) There was one gal in my bracket who was divorced, and was very sporadic in attendance.
I don't deny it when women tell me of their experiences the other way around. I just wish I could find one of them and one of them can find me. ;)
55. Ken had the following to say on Mar 24 at 8:01 PM:
You don't need to find someone at church or a directly church-related event.
If you don't meet a lot of eligible opposites, get involved in something the 'opposites' are more into. Guys, try ballroom dancing, or an art appreciation class. Ladies, try major sports or automobile related things.
Go where the imbalances will work in your favor.
56. obewan had the following to say on Mar 25 at 7:33 AM:
Needacatchyname at #39 asked:
"...there are unfortunately not enough girls for every guy who wants to date to be dating).
So, for the trillionth time I have to ask, what should a guy do in a situation like this (assuming moving is not an option)?"
I can vouch for the existence of the same dilemma. I lived in the submarine culture for 13 years, where at the peak there were around 30,000 men working in that high tech industry in our region. At many singles events at our church, we were overwhelmed with "visiting" submariners from the navy base "looking for women to date", and the ratios at said events fell to 12:1. Some of the women actually resented the "ratio" and said they did not want to be "hit on".
I took matters into my own hands, and went to personal ads. I suppose it is safer for a guy, but I met some very nice devout Christian women to date. In some cases, they were an hour away from my town, but at least I was doing something proactive about the problem.
There used to be a Christian personal ad service in CA called "Church of Many Mansions". It was worldwide, and funded entirely by "donations". The postings were categorized by denomination, state, and age. I don't know if they still exist. They don't show up as being on the web yet. The newspaper came out monthly, and they took care of the initial letter forwarding until people agreed to give out contact info. It is not a bad way to get to know someone. I wrote letters to one woman for 12 weeks before we met in person. We had many weekly phone talks as well. Ultimately, we broke up because she had several years of graduate school to do in another town and decided she was not ready for marriage yet. (She was also 7 years younger)
57. Tami had the following to say on Mar 25 at 9:16 AM:
Well, Amir, I don't know what to say, except I did read Matthew 7:7 in my devotions this morning -- perhaps that'll be an encouragement for you. :)
58. NeedACatchyName had the following to say on Mar 25 at 2:06 PM:
Ken (#55): Funny you should mention that because I do a little ballroom dancing myself. Unfortunately, every single guy in town seems to have the same idea, so there's about a 60/40 guy/girl split at dancing events. That having been said, generally it is a solid idea to try and do activities where there are more likely to be more members of the opposite gender. It's important to note, however, that gender ratios at activities vary from region to region, so you may run into some unusual circumstances (like the aforementioned ballroom dancing example) that don't fit what you think the pattern should be. As a result, you may have to look around a little bit before you find a good place to meet singles of the opposite gender.
obewan (#56): I have also notice that girls in towns with extremely male heavy gender ratios tend to dislike having that much attention and getting "hit-on" all the time. As a result, I've had several girls tell me that in this sort of situation, it's best to spend a little more time than you normally would being "just friends" and getting to know a girl before you ask her out. This is because girls in guy heavy areas tend to get asked out a lot, many times by guys who haven't known them for very long. But if a guy is willing to invest some time to to get to know them before they ask them out, then that helps the guy stand out from the stream of other guys pursuing them.
59. Super Frank had the following to say on Mar 25 at 4:18 PM:
NeedACatchyName said:
"Funny you should mention that because I do a little ballroom dancing myself. Unfortunately, every single guy in town seems to have the same idea, so there's about a 60/40 guy/girl split at dancing events."
What are you talking about? I only knew of ONE guy that ballroom danced -- ever. And he was forced to do so by his wife. The only kind of "dancing" I am interested in is slamming around in a mosh pit.
Maybe I am on the wrong website. I got the impression that boundless.org was for college aged students and 20 somethings. But it appears to have morphed into a website for women (of all ages) and age 35 and up men.
In actuality, the only guy I knew that liked ballroom dancing was 60 years old.
If you men (on this site) like ballroom dancing -- thats your business, but this website doesn't seem to have anything for the regular 20 something year old guy. (It seems to be all about relationships and how guys are at fault if they don't work out as planned).
Please tell me I am mistaken.
60. Sarah had the following to say on Mar 25 at 7:53 PM:
Amanda L (#50): Why doesn't your brother want to involve you in his social circle? I am 22 and have twin brothers who are 24 and we often all hang out together. Maybe your brother needs some loving sisterly communication about why it's not right for him to keep you out of his circle of friends? If you can't bring it up maybe your parents our pastor or someone else from your church could show him how he is keeping you from many opportunities. Also, is there a specific reason why you don't have a license? I hope no one in your life is keeping you from getting one, and if it's your own personal lack of motivation I suggest you work through it and get your license, it will really help you have some appropriate independence. Blessings! ~ Sarah
61. Andrew (tlw) had the following to say on Mar 26 at 5:49 PM:
I agree that major theological differences might make dating problematic. However, I also know that that our views and opinions evolve and develop over time.
Your spouse might start married life with one set of opinions, but have another set by midlife. We do change. Becoming a “_______” (insert theological term here) is not usually legitimate reasons for divorce.
And without trying to paint any theological views as insignificant, it is true that what we rate as important changes over time. So that things we are passionate about in our 20s, and convinced that our partner MUST share, can fade somewhat as we age.
62. Ro had the following to say on Mar 31 at 9:18 AM:
One of the most valuable lessons that I have learnt was to cut your losses and move on when a guy is not pursuing and does not seem interested.
I realized that if a guy isn't actually pursuing me, he obviously does not want to marry mr, because if he did want to marry me he would be pursuing me.
Moving on and getting over them was much better than investing emotional energy in trying to form a connection with someone who wasn't putting in the effort back in trying to form a relationship with me. (And if they were putting in the effort back, then we would have been in a relationship by now!)
I'd rather try to meet new people than trying to make something out of nothing, that isn't really there, or be with a guy who doesn't like me enough or isn't mature enough to tell me how he feels about me!