Met and Unmet Career Expectations: Episode #6
by Motte Brown on 02/29/2008 at 3:31 PM
 iTunes | FeedBurner/RSS |
Not an advisable career move.
I languished in restaurants and bars for three years after college. Thankfully, my ambition propelled me onto bigger and better things; things I wouldn't have imagined for myself just a few years earlier. But it took time, hard work, and a luncheon my dad had with a United States Senator's right hand man.
On this week's The Boundless Show, we discuss the many paths people take in their careers and ask, "Are you where you thought you'd be?" I'm not. But I love where I've ended up.
And I'm really excited about our culture segment this week ... and our music. A couple of weeks ago Lisa and Ted got to sit down with Nick Gonzales and Chris Bevins from CCM band Salvador. Both are pastor's kids and provide some keen insight on growing up in the church. It's only part one of a two-part series, so be sure the check back next week.
A word about the music -- it's from their yet-to-be-released album (its name escapes me). Very cool that they gave us a copy and let us share some of it with you before just about anyone else! Let us know what you think of it.
For our The Hungry Years we have Steve Watters voicing a great essay called "Clear the Decks" about making sure your life isn't cluttered with activities that aren't bearing fruit. Steve says you have to be willing to cut those things off so you can grow in other areas. It's a convicting segment.
We round out this week's show with a quandary from The Inbox: A young man and woman want to marry but her parents do not approve. Steve and Candice provide some parent-honoring advice that's sure to give hope for this young couple.
Before I close, I have to give another shout out to Salvador. They are talented, gracious, and it was a real treat to sit down with them. Be sure to visit their Web site for more information about the musicians, their forthcoming CD, and tour dates and locations.
Remember, the best way to get The Boundless Show is via iTunes. If you click the "subscribe" button, you'll be assured of not missing a single show. You can also subscribe via RSS.
1. Christina said the following at 5:06 PM on Feb 29:
I haven't listened to the show yet...
But one things for sure...I always thought I'd be strapping babies into the mini van and taking them to the park.
Definitly not where I am...and I'm kinda at a loss...I never actually put serious thought into what I wanted to do if I didn't get married straight out of college...and now the whole business world has me all up in arms and I want to just quit and get a part time job that doesn't pay my rent.
Its reconciling the failed expectations of SAHM with the time mongerers known as my bosses.
2. Rachael said the following at 5:06 PM on Feb 29:
Nice that someone on the podcast show referred to a blog article a few months back. For those who may have missed it, it was called "Do Boring Stuff Well" -- http://www.boundlessline.org/2007/10/doing-boring-st.html . I appreciated this article. Indeed, as is noted in that post, "mastering the mundane matters."
3. Rachael said the following at 5:09 PM on Feb 29:
(Oops - too late to tack it on to my original comment, but, as a P.S... Just wanted to say "mastering the mundane" is something I want/need to work on. Don't want to give the impression that I think that I'm a master in this regard because I'm not. )
4. Sherah said the following at 6:39 PM on Feb 29:
Christina (post #1), DITTO!
Except, Im not in the business world. I am in the "helping" professions. I am a nurse. But I am greatly struggling with getting through each scheduled shift.
So any advice Motte? Or others?
5. Adam T. said the following at 7:04 PM on Feb 29:
Christina (post #1), DITTO!
Except, Im not in the business world. I am in the "helping" professions. I am a nurse. But I am greatly struggling with getting through each scheduled shift.
No kidding, really? I know a nurse I thought about asking out, only I haven't because I figured she was too in love with being a nurse to be interested in having a family. Or something, I dunno.
6. Rachael said the following at 7:21 PM on Feb 29:
Sherah & whoever else, did you check out the recent blogpost called "Invisible Work?"
http://www.boundlessline.org/2008/02/invisible-work.html
--You might check out the article and comments (like Athena's at comment 23)for suggestions....
7. BDB said the following at 7:47 PM on Feb 29:
Sherah (#4) wrote:
>>But I am greatly struggling with getting through each scheduled shift. <<
My grandmother started nursing in a doctor's office - much better hours after years on the night shift at the hospital.
She's 91 and can still measures her coffee intake in pots per day..."doesn't affect her" she says...
8. Jessica said the following at 10:17 PM on Feb 29:
Adam, in #5, you said:I know a nurse I thought about asking out, only I haven't because I figured she was too in love with being a nurse to be interested in having a family. Or something, I dunno.
A note of encouragement, bro. Get to know her and find out if that is the case. You never know, she could just be putting her studies to good use until she has her own family to serve. I know some of the nursing students I've come into contact with were practical and new that nursing gave a great help with motherhood. Not only does it give a girl a solid job when she can work outside the home, but she'd be the first go-to for the daily injuries/sicknesses her children have, be a great 'soccer' mom in a general sense, and have a good foundation to fall back on should a calamity befall her family or when the empty nest years come. If i'd have been scientifically minded I would have considered it. It's a smart move.
9. skp said the following at 8:04 AM on Mar 1:
Sherah (#4),
I have been a nurse for a while and fortunately I like my job. I agree with BDB (#7). There are lots of nursing jobs out there- home care, utilization review, industrial nursing, etc.. Even in hospital nursing, some floors are run better than others. Find someplace that doesn't have a huge turnover. I am sure you can find your place.
10. Amy P. said the following at 8:11 AM on Mar 1:
In response to comment #5:
It seems as though the *perception* that a woman enjoys and loves her job is enough to scare away a guy who is interested in a woman. I would also assume that the converse would be true because if woman spends a lot of time whining and complaining about her job, that would not be attractive to a man later.
So, what's a girl to do to give of the perception that she is available and interested (and possibly has employable skills too!)?
11. Ted Slater said the following at 11:04 AM on Mar 1:
Did y'all notice that the music on the podcast is from an album Salvador has not yet released? The songs aren't even on the radio yet, to my knowledge. :-)
12. BDB said the following at 2:25 PM on Mar 1:
Jessica (#8) wrote:
>>You never know, she could just be putting her studies to good use until she has her own family to serve.<<
Let me extend on that.
My sister got her doctorate in Audiology specifically because the field is very mom-friendly. Many audiologists are moms who work part time. A friend who is a hospice nurse also works part time - very compatible with motherhood. Definitely don't assume that women in allied health fields are being solely career focused.
13. Sarah said the following at 3:34 PM on Mar 1:
Hey Sherah,
I've just finished my midwifery studies which I only went into at this stage because I felt really burnt out and lost my confidence in Emergency nursing. I totally believe God has directed my paths cause I am passionate about midwifery and it is opening up more opportunities for me to go to the mission field.
The great thing about nursing is that you can move around...and I couldn't more highly recommend midwifery...it means predominantly looking after well women too...so it's not all suctioning trachys, showers, meds, dressings etc. And seriously you couldn't get better training for the future if you are wanting to have a family! (And if you are having a bad day there's always a baby somewhere that needs a cuddle!)
Sarah
14. Jo said the following at 12:47 PM on Mar 2:
Liked the round table discussion, particularly about people noticing your faithfulness in the small things and then giving you further opportunities. I'm not saying that I'm perfect at this AT ALL, but an encouraging story: I'm a care worker at the moment, but there's an opening in a similar setting for a 'music facilitator', which is much more suited to my *specific* talents and something I'd really love to do - and I was recommended for this job by my old boss who now works there. I wasn't looking for a new job so it's literally fallen into my lap. Still might not get it, but we'll see. :)
15. ValG said the following at 10:38 PM on Mar 2:
Sherah,
Hey girl, I'm a nurse too! Glad to see the R.N.s get a shout out on this post:)
In a few weeks, I'm switching to part-time status so I can start a Master's program and become a Nurse Practitioner. I feel you though, for sure--I'm just as excited about being about to work less as I am about pursing a new career!
I'm so glad that the profession is soooo flexible and has endless possibilities. I'm looking forward to being able to plan my work schedule around my family life some day, if I need to work.
Guys, do your part, ask out a nurse today! ;)
16. BDB said the following at 11:15 PM on Mar 2:
As far as work, I definitely agree that doing small things well matters, especially if you're near a detail person.
My resume looks a little strange. By my count, I've had 13 bosses in 15 years...but I've only changed jobs three times. My bosses kept getting re-organized around me. (And I have all those business cards when my title changed! I'm goint to make a display out of them.) But at each step of my career, breakng in a new boss, at some point I was handed a difficult problem no one else had the patience to figure out. As I kept solving hard problems, I got promoted. And handed harder problems, like doing all the accounting for the damage we suffered in the 2003 and 2007 wildfires. Be thankful for the hassles in your job, they represent half your pay. If those hassles weren't there, they could pay someone half as much to do the job.
I had the opportunity to provide input on a number of promotions, including several people who moved from hourly (clerical) positions to professional, salaried positions. In each case, those individuals took initiative to solve complicated problems. The fact that they took the initiative and actually got it done made big points with me, and also made it possible for me to get them promoted and/or get them raises.
And frankly, my boss was able to get me raises the same way: keep the main functions of the job working adequately, and then also take the initiative to tackle difficult problems facing the organization. Solving difficult problems is what makes you valuable to an organization - all organizations have difficult problems that need to be solved. Prove you can do that, and you will never be short of people ready to speak up for you.
This matters at the senior level, too. The CEO of Merrill Lynch was recently fired. One of the things that came up in the Wall Street Journal articles later on pointed out that the guy was not good at building bridges with people. When he got in trouble with the credit crunch...no one stepped forward to speak up for him. Don't burn your bridges. It may be one of today's co-workers who opens the door for your next job.
Moving on, if I understand this podcast technology correctly, I'm supposed to:
1)Download the MP3
2)Copy it to my blackberry
3)Plug the backberry into my car to listen to it while driving...
Kind of makes me like my radio more...
But Ted, "Unscathed" would be a good name for a rock band...
17. Christina said the following at 6:04 AM on Mar 3:
So.
The question that still remains unanswered. When do you make the decision that you really need to find another job?
This isn't about money (I started at 48 grand right out of college). This isn't about not using my major (I have a math and CS degree and work as a programmer). Something isn't right here with me. And I don't know if its the job, me, or a combination of both. Is my disintegrating satisfaction with life a result of a job that demands more and more of my life or the result in my inability to make a life outside of work?
And in looking at those two things in tandem, would it be appropriate to assume the best course of action is, in fact, to move and find a new job?
I mean, you say glorify God wherever you are, but what if God is calling me out of Egypt or Ur? I mean, were they just as capable of worshipping and glorifying God where they were? Or did God have a bigger plan for how he wanted them to glorify him?
And if that's the case, who am I going to be more like? Abraham, who acted in complete faith and packed up and moved without a qualm, or the hebrews who stand on the cusp of a new land and refuse to enter due to fear and lack of faith?
18. brx said the following at 3:25 PM on Mar 3:
Christina,
Before packing your bags and moving on, you might want to consider that prospective employers will want to know why you quit. A vague answer that you can't put yout finger on precise reasons will not make them comfortable about hiring you. My advice, do some weeks of praying and talking about it with some older/wiser folks. It may be as simple as discussing some healthy boundaries with your supervisor(s) - not that the boundaries discussion is necessarily easy to have.
When I was a fresh-out in the tech arena, I found myself frequently working 12~14hr days because I didn't feel like I was accomplishing as much as the more seasoned pros. Later, I realized I wasn't doing myself a fair trade and I was lying to my boss - by letting him think it only took one of me to accomplish the work in a reasonable work-week. I slowly became a better communicator as we talked about job objectives, priorities, and reasonable time frames. Make sure you and your supervisors agree on what is a reasonable, regular work-week (40, 50, 60hrs).
God grant you the confidence to have those conversations in a humble way.
19. BDB said the following at 4:18 PM on Mar 3:
Christina (#17) wrote:
>>The question that still remains unanswered. When do you make the decision that you really need to find another job?<<
Well, that's a very interesting question. One of the problems is that most of the jobs that are hiring have an opening because someone else left. By far the best job to go into is one where the previous occupant got promoted. But your job satisfaction has a lot to do with how well you like your boss. I had a great boss for six years (which gives you an idea of how short my bosses lasted in #16 above.) When he left, a big reason for me to stay also left. He was was very committed to his family, and that made it easy for me to manage my department in a family-friendly way.
But the one thing that really stuck with me was the people who left the organization. Without fail, when I ran into them a couple of months later, they were much more relaxed and happy - and told me how their wives cheered when they quit.
The grass is not always greener. Well, if it's Marathon II and regularly fertilized, it will be greener. But you still need to weed, edge, thatch and water it, along with regular mowing. A well-run company will always be somewhat demanding. But it can be rewarding to work in an environment where authority and accountability are combined together.
Just remember that a significant portion of the population gets their satisfaction in life from their volunteer activity, not from their work. Life overall can still be satisfying. For example, if your job allows you to buy a house you can use for ministry, it's a lot more satisfying than living in your parent's basement.
20. Rachael said the following at 5:06 PM on Mar 3:
Christina,
[Take my advice with a grain of salt as I'm in a profession where it's quite easy for people like me to change job locations (doing the same type of job, though)].
If you're already cultivating a deep faith and seeking God, you could be open to changing jobs. I don't think you need to feel like you *have* to stay there (keeping in mind brx's comment in 18).
But for me most of my satisfaction comes from outside my job, even though my job has so many satisfying elements to it and I love its flexibility.
Can you try to get plugged into various small groups and ministries through your church? Would you enjoy meeting with friends more often on the weekdays? Can you start some kind of interest group? Are you motivated to start a new hobby or type of exercise? ...If your job is eating up a lot more of your time than you bargained for and you're not able to do much extra-curricular stuff, and if you don't have the conversations brx suggested, perhaps you could choose a job with less demanding hours?
Hang in there!
Another option might be to just quit altogether...one of my friends did this. I think her purpose in doing that was to become more active at pursuing full-time ministry. And she did it. After she quit her job, she worked at another one as she raised support. But I think for her quitting her job was her first step in active change. I'm just throwing this possibility out there, not at all suggesting that you do this option.
Again, hang in there!
21. Janice said the following at 8:01 PM on Mar 3:
LOVE the show...I am quickly starting to really look forward to my weekly favorite podcast updating in my iTunes!!!
22. Christina said the following at 8:52 AM on Mar 4:
Thank you, Rachael, BRX, and BDB.
You guys gave me some good insight.
brx, Yeah - I know why I'd be leaving...and Rachael hit on it head on. My job is work-oriented. My boss demands many OT hours throught the year (not just once or twice a year...unless you count the once or twice lasting 5-6 months). My boss also doesn't understand and fails to respect the differences we have. I am not a career oriented woman. He does not understand how someone who is not career oriented could be doing the work that I'm doing.
BDB, I've been praying a lot about it and the area I'm in has also not provided the outlet needed. I was attending a church for about 8 months and was trying to get more involved. I had talked to the pastor and such, showed up to places where I believed I was needed, and somehow never managed to be integrated into the church.
Rachael, I desperately want to have the time to pursue something outside of work. It has been disheartening because the nature of the work I'm qualified for is geared towards people who DO make work their life (programming...they do it at work, at home, in the park, in their sleep...) I'd give anything to be able to pursue learning how to cook and inviting friends over to eat my food :)
I keep asking these questions because I don't know if I've given this a proper chance. I have a friend who keeps telling me that this impatience I'm getting could be God saying "MOVE". And then I read things like this and wonder if I'm being whiney and not doing everything I could to make this work. Maybe I should give it more time...
But somehow, i don't think that's the right course of action. I found a church in Washington DC and want to go there and attend it and get involved. I keep asking myself if this is really the right reason to leave where I am now.
23. Rachael said the following at 9:18 AM on Mar 4:
Christina,
I think it's okay to leave...seek God, seek advice from friends, and if you don't feel the urge to stay...maybe it's okay to leave.
And can I give you a job suggestion? As with various advice to various people, take it with a grain of salt and it might not suit you at all.
But here's my suggestion: maybe you could teach math at a community college(s) or university.
Lots of community colleges at least where I live generally just hire at technically part-time (at least for ESL). Lots of people work at more than one place. There is a nearby place where you could teach the full-load but still be technically part-time. (The ESL teacher situation is probably often different than teachers of other subjects though as often/always the funding source is different and for probably reasons I am clueless of.)
I don't make a lot of money. Probably people with/without BA's make more than I do with a Master's. But it's okay for one person.
And sometimes the work does pile up and I often do stuff at home. But still there's flexibility and I don't HAVE to stay at work all day if I don't want to, and this quarter I usually leave right after the last class I teach :).
Flexibility. A HUMONGO perk!!
Just a thought...anyway may God's peace be with you!!!
24. brx said the following at 3:14 PM on Mar 4:
Hey Christina,
OK, I don't like reading long posts but I hope it's encouraging to know that you're not going through a slump that lasts forever nor is it one that no one else has had to deal with. Programming and engineering creativity are waay cool but don't let anyone mislead you to think that has to be your life 24/7 to have a career in it. My married tech coworkers do well in balancing their home/family obligations with workday requirements. So, I know it can be done.
Something that helps me break out of the sense of obligation to work late (often a false sense) is to have other obligations. If I get in at 8:00a and only take a reasonable lunch hour, it then becomes very reasonable at 5:15p to say "I've got to go, I have an obligation to be somewhere else now." For me, that obligation is often teamates expecting me to be at volleyball, or friends mountainbiking, or hanging out with the youth kids, tutoring, or dinner and a movie, or... __add_your_own__. I'm committed to do a good job at work and try to be flexible when we have a major project behind schedule or a SNAFU, but we agree that over a 9hr day should not be the norm.
While it could be you have a boss who expects a commitment level that is not workable for you, may I encourage you, to not assume and instead have that humble conversation for clarity. Let him/her know that you want to and enjoy doing a good job for them and that you're kind of struggling to understand their expectations in terms of time commitment (even if you already think they expect too much). You might say something like "I want to be committed and focussed for you X-hrs a day/week with some flexibility a couple times a year for problem projects. I just want to be sure my availability meets your needs because I have other life commitments and obligations outside of that time." If they push to know your other commitments, you might let them know some of your interests - volunteer teaching, sports league, service program, whatever cool things you want to pursue - so they know you're not doing competetive contracting - but don't let them pressure you to give them your personal calendar. Your question to your supervisors is whether your availability meets their needs and if not, do they think you should be looking for work in a different company? Try to be completely humble and not adversarial, because you may find an unnexpected blessing through those folks.
Grace, peace & adventure!
BTW, you look cute in green, esp in March. ;)
25. Christina said the following at 3:45 PM on Mar 4:
BTW, you look cute in green, esp in March. ;)
Lol...Thanks...
26. BDB said the following at 6:04 PM on Mar 4:
To extend the Christina (in green) programming thread:
Sometimes it's easier to work at a different kind of company. A friend of mine is Director of I.T. for a group of hospitals. I know that he has a few programmers working for him, but I doubt the hours are nearly as bad as, say, Mr. Softy. If your skills are appropriate, you might be able to find a way to use your skills in an in-house organization. There's a lot less potential for career advancement, but if you aren't career-minded anyway; better to have more control of your time.
Just my $.02 (I don't know how to do that in hex)
27. Christina (in green) said the following at 11:01 AM on Mar 5:
Thanks BDB...
All of you guys have been quite helpful :)