Newer Post | Older Post


Finding the Perfect Church
by Heather Koerner on 02/08/2008 at 1:53 PM

Tim Challies' article, Involuntary Community, is a good challenge against "church shopping" and reminded me of a passage from one of my favorite books, The Screwtape Letters by C.S. Lewis.

In Letter 16, Lewis has the demon Screwtape write a letter to Screwtape's demon nephew, Wormwood, advising him to attack a certain human's loyal attendance to a church:

"Surely you know that if a man can't be cured of churchgoing, the next best thing is to send him all over the neighbourhood looking for the church that 'suits' him until he becomes a taster or connoisseur of churches.

The reasons are obvious. In the first place, the parochial organisation should always be attacked because, being a unity of place and not of likings, it brings people of different classes and psychology together in the kind of unity the Enemy desires. The congregational principle, on the other hand, makes each church into a kind of club, and finally, if all goes well, into a coterie or faction. In the second place, the search for a 'suitable' church makes the man a critic where the Enemy wants him to be a pupil."

I remember this passage so well because I've never been in a "parish" system and didn't see much use for them. But Lewis showed me one definite benefit -- when the church is based on geography and not choice, I must love all my brothers and sisters in Christ, not just my chosen favorites.

I still prefer the congregational system. I want to be able to attend a church that I know teaches the Word. But I've also seen the benefits of a gracious heart. Five years ago when my husband and I committed to our church, the preaching was biblical and wonderful, the music program was not. As a lifelong lover of music and singer, that was hard. But we put aside our preference and worshiped right along. Now, the teaching is still biblical and the music program is flourishing. God taught us that service is more important than shopping.

So are you a taster or a server? A critic or a pupil? Maybe it's time for a little JFKism: Ask not what your church can do for you....

Comments

Feed You can follow this conversation by subscribing to the comment feed for this post.

1

I'm so glad you posted this--my pastor just started a series on serving, and just talked about this in particular!! :o) Thanks!


2

When I was in upper high school, the church my family had been part of for a number of years really started to turn away from following the Lord. After trying unsuccessfully to help get the people back on track, my parents felt God leading them to leave and search for a church family elsewhere. Over the next couple years our family "test drove" I think four different churches in our town. We wanted to find a place where we would be able to learn and grow the most but especially where we would be able to serve the Lord effectively.

My parents valued the opinions of us kids, since they wanted us to enjoy and be a part of the church, too, so we would have discussions over what we liked and disliked about each church. We needed to be honest, but we also discovered, with our parents, that it was really easy to fall into just being a church critic. We had to learn to be careful as we evaluated and talked that we had the right attitudes about what was actually important and what was just our preference and what we could personally get involved in and help improve. It was a challenge, but it ended up being a very good spiritual exercise.

At the end, we finally came to the conclusion that none of the churches in our town were really headed in the direction the Lord was leading my father, so he got together with some other like-minded fathers and started a new church. We didn't look down on the churches we decided not to join. They had good qualities, and each had members that we enjoyed and loved very much. But as a whole they weren't what we were looking for.

Now I'm not saying that everyone who can't find a church they like should start their own. In fact, the reason my family had joined the first church we left was because my father could see a need in that church that God was calling him to fill. But I am saying that learning to be discerning--but not critical--can help you more clearly decide where the Lord is leading you, be it a church that needs work (they all do!) or starting a new one. God isn't going to tell everyone the same thing, but He will always tell us what's best for us, and for His kingdom.

I know that lesson will help me thoughout life. Once I graduated from college and moved to another town for a job, I had to start looking for churches on my own. I had to remember not to be critical but just observant and attentive to God's spirit. God can minister to different needs through different styles, sizes, focuses, and demographics of different churches. My search ended with the Lord leading me to a church that is the best one I have ever gone to. The teaching is solid, life-changing Scripture. The music is top-notch, upbeat, and full of truth. The general attitude is one of serving the Lord whole-heartedly and enthusiasticly, and of bringing as many people to know Him as possible. The kids ministry is amazing. There are multiple opportunities for me to use my talents and interests for the Lord, something I had really been longing for. I feel at home, but I am also pushed to grow.

I have now been there a year and a half and I still thank the Lord for what a perfect blessing it has been in my life. So you never know what will happen when you go church shopping with Jesus! I'm sorry my post is so long, but I hope my story will be an encouragement to others!


3

Well, leave it to God to smack me in the teeth with truth. I have become a church taster. I am currently looking for a church home and have been hopping around for months. I realize now that I was asking the wrong question. What can I do for this church? Thx, tp


4

I think I'm a critic and a pupil. I try to learn from most of my spiritual settings. I tend to take notes at small groups, church service, and Sunday School. Yet I long for the "perfect" church - not just what it can do for me, but also what I can do for it. I KNOW we can never find the right one, but I wonder if there's a better fit 'out there' - even if in another state? Probably I wouldn't change states just for the church, though... I'm not sure what points I should compromise on...perhaps I'm greedy, but this is what I really would like:

*VERY Biblical sermons, exegetical, understanding it in its proper context, sticking closely to the text, verse-by-verse, and applying it to life (perhaps I'm too picky... though I've seen it done and LOVE it)
*humble leadership/pastor
*lyrically strong (Biblical) worship music (I can compromise on that one)*good sense of community (that that can be developped, though)
*small groups that are Biblically solid and also very loving (can compromise on that one)
*VERY Biblically based Sunday Schools (can compromise on that one)

I guess I don't know what points I should be willing to compromise. Like my expectations for Biblical depth might be too high. (Many churches are probably Biblical, but I guess I crave depth and close readings of the text and application.) Is it okay not to expect deep growth in the knowledge department? I guess so...

I've been going to a church in my city for a few months. But I still am not sure it's "the one"...should I still become a member of it at one point? I actually may not even be a member of any church though I've been in churches all my life. I think the membership issue was mentioned in another post or comment discussion, though...

I have various involvements - involved w/ my ex-church, involved with an ex-grad school group, involved with my current church...eventually I plan to narrow down the involvements so that I'm not involved w/ more than one church, or if I am, very minimally w/ the "other" church...

I tried a few churches last year, and have consistently been going to one for the past few months, but I'm not sure if it's where I should be long-term, and how picky I can be...

It's tough. I know no community is perfect, but, still I wonder 'what if the perfect fit is out there...' But of course it's important to serve wherever one is, even if it's not the 'ideal match'....


5

I agree that the church is who you serve, not what you can receive. And I am incredibly thankful that God uses our natural giftings to enjoy Him.

However, I think Challies' article included too many broad-based generalizations and superficial assumptions for me to really sink into. "I bought a second generation iPod and only shop at Urban Outfitters...am I a church snob, too?"

Who is this "we" he keeps invoking? I didn't identify with his examples, and I live in the Bay Area and recently changed churches.

I'm not trying to assert my individualism and evade being branded, I just think that his appeal missed the mark.

Creative expression and a knowledge of personal preferences are not the mark of spiritual immaturity.


6

I love this same passage from Screwtape Letters. It has really saved me from a great deal of useless church shopping. My congregation has gone through some really rough times over the past 25 years. Friends of mine left in droves claiming that the church was dying, and I felt like the only one left behind. But I kept standing firm in the fact that I should stay where I was. Eventually many of those who left came back. I think I came out better for staying all along, because I have a strength in spiritual adversity that they lack. This is not a put down of the others, but persistence pays off in the Lord's kingdom.


7

Well...I'm both.

I'm a taster when I'm looking for biblical teaching and creed. The Creed is always the first thing I look at when going to a new church. Service layout/sermon is also important to me (is it obvious you are preaching a sermon and are you actually saying something?) Usually those problems I've come across in mega churches where the pastor is incredibly ADD and the church is really too big for any real accountability.

I'm a server in the fact that I actually do want to be active in ministries (and have been in the past).

I'm a critic when it comes to unbiblical teaching and ADD preachers who can't focus for more than 2 minutes. I'm a pupil where I want to listen and take notes and look up references given. I want to be discipled and taught how to serve better.

Unfortunately, I'm living in a way that is very "church surfer"ish. I was attending a church for a while and was learning - i loved it. But at some point I was ready to serve to. After talking to the pastor and trying to get involved for 6 months, I realized that the church pretty much abandons you at a certain point. I haven't really had good luck with churches in the area I'm in.

I fell in love with a church in another state and am actually planning on relocating there.

I really think that to some extent, my approach to church going is biblical. Sometimes I wonder if I'm simply too whiney.


8

My father always said: If you find the perfect church don't join it--you'll ruin it.

I guess I'm only left with imperfect churches;).


9

You know, the group that needs this the most is students at Christian colleges. Around my alma mater that are at least a dozen good churches. People become shallow snobs when it comes to choosing a church.
"This one isn't contemporary enough"
"This one is too contemporary"
"The pastor looked at me the wrong way"
"The pastor didn't look at me"
"I didn't like the tone in his voice"
"I didn't get invited over to lunch at that church"
"His sermon wasn't good enough"
From experience, these sorts of excuses are a display of false piety (I used at least half of the above excuses my first 3 years of college).
One of the difficulties of serving in a church while you are in college is balancing it with academics and the social aspect of college. There was nothing worse than being asked to babysit only to have to say "No" because you had a paper due the next day.
When you are unable to serve, it makes being part of a church that much more difficult because you are only there on Sunday mornings and (if you aren't sleeping or finishing something that's due Monday) evenings. You become a consumer. It's difficult.
I'm glad those days are over.


10

Just like you Heather I love music and a enjoy singing so I usually chose a church for only that reason. However, I attended a church last summer because I was searching for a new church in my home town and I really didn't like the worship music, but the preaching was also "biblical and wonderful" and the sense of family that I got from the people there was great so I decided to stay and I don't regret my decision.


11

I just read the article and have found myself nodding in agreement. Mainly I do this because I see it being so true.

I know that I have strived to NOT have a consumerist mindset, though I'd be a fool to think that I was immune to such temptations. And so I've wrestled with the issue off and on for quite some time.

Basically, I feel I've avoided the issue personally by choosing a church relatively soon after I have to change (i.e. in my case, the church I first attended after I was saved had to close, and I had to leave the church I went to next because I moved out of the area. Now I'm at a good church and plan on sticking around until I move, die, or the church closes), and if that church is good on the teaching of correct doctrine and faithfully preaching the Word of God, then I see no reason to change.

However, I've seen not the same in friends of mine who bounced around from church to church every Sunday. And it saddened me. It wasn't community, it was individualistic. No time to really form bonds.

Thus, the issue of choosing a church raises these pondering questions:

*Where does proper discernment end, and personal preference begin? When IS the right time to leave a church.

*Where does proper discernment end and personal preference begin when CHOOSING a church to go to when you have had to change churches (due to moving, etc.).

*When should one leave a church due to serious error?

*How do we balance truth and love since to God they are unseperatable from themselves. What is the proper balance?

I'd challenge all to think on these things. And, if one is in a solid church with good teaching and preaching, STICK WITH IT. The minor "annoyances" can be worked out. Don't go to be fed (though that is partly why we need the Church) only, but to serve as well. When we all serve each other, we end up being fed as well....by someone else who is serving too.


12

Tasting attitudes can work both ways, as my husband and I have recently learned. We just moved back to my old hometown and to a new church; we knew enough about the church in advance that we felt we only needed to attend one service to verify that it is indeed where we want to transfer our membership. What has surprised us is that the people there (even the pastor!) have been bending over backwards to make sure that we're really certain this is the "right fit" for us, that we're not being too hasty, or feeling pushed to commit before we're ready. My husband and I are coming at it from the attitude of "grow where you're planted," but they're acting like we should be tumbleweeds! It's sad to see that they are clearly used to new members being Tasters rather than Servers.


13

For me, I've grown up in this chuch that i love, and from what i can remember I joined it because i liked the games at sunday school(i was 8...)But now, 7 years on, I really praise God for my church and love it to bits. But the funny thing is that I've realised it has so much imperfection, like our service sometimes sucks, my friends sometimes let me down, but yet i love it to bits. A church you love and that's awesome isn't going to be perfect, it's no fun if it is. :)But it's really important to take time to seek God about each church before you decide on yes or no.

James, you were raising the questions of when should you leave a chuch when there is serious error. If it's a completely justified and an error that's going to affect spiritual growth, then when you've gently pointed it out to the pastors, reminded them, and little effort for improvement is given, prayed about it and have peace about moving, then i think it's ok to leave that chuch. But to be honest it's something that should really be avoided.

You know, i'm actually dreading when i have to leave for Uni and find a new church...


14

"Consumerist" isn't really the right word.

Theology matters; what a church teaches and stands for matters.

Some issues might include:

Calvinism vs. Arminianism;
credobaptism vs. paedobaptism (baptizing believers vs. prinkling infants);
full immersion baptism vs. sprinkling

If you disagree in good conscience with your church, you ought to have the liberty in Christ to find one you do agree with. If Martin Luther had thought that community was more important than truth, he would never have nailed his 95 theses to the church door.

It's about placing a proper value on theological and Biblical truth. "Consumerism" is choosing Coke over Pepsi.


15

I agree with John D. that theology matters, but it's hard for me to know to what extent I should compromise and how picky I should be. It's uncomfortable not being sure of where to commit. I'm enjoying getting involved with the community at the church I'm at now. (I felt like at my past church I mostly socialized with family members on Sundays. Though it was good to see them and I love them, really enjoyed the preaching there, and am still involved with a ministry at that church, I decided to try to branch out and get plugged into another church community.) My current church's views on baptism are different from my own, but if it is not treated as a salvation issue (which is something I should figure out), I think I could treat it as a peripheral issue. I have an idea of what denomination my views might be more in line with, and did try one church (kind of far away) of that denomination a long time ago, but maybe I should try more...they are some distance away, though...Kind-of confusing to know what to prioritize. In the Bible though, it seemed that the community was an important aspect...so maybe I shouldn't be TOO picky with theology and the teaching?


16

Personally, I like most churches I've been to ;-). They are all so different and unique. The hard part is deciding on just one to join.


17

i'd like to suggest reading "The Kingdom -Focused Church" by Gene Mims.

that's all i gotta say :)


18

Finding a church home can be difficlt. I decided years ago to stick with the Lutheran church for several reasons:

- Liturgical
- Synodical oversight keeps the congregation in check and provides a "magesterium" of sorts
- Traditional worship with no theologically-wanting happy-clappy worship
- Sola scriptura, sola fide, sola gratia

One of the problems I see is that people are becoming more concerned with "how" the church worships rather than what is being taught. I like the Lutheran chuch because they teach only what is biblical. No one would dare recommend books by certain megachurch authors.

There is so much theologically wanting teachings out there it's scary. So many congregations teach the prosperity gospel, teach wrongly about the distinction between law and gospel (some have made the law the gospel in their outlook), rock bands in church and then having no actual sermons/message, no teaching about sin/forgiveness, etc.

I attended one church when visiting a friend (big mistake) where the pastor actually said that drinking alcohol will send you to hell. It's this kind of fundamentalist teaching that makes congregations learn the wrong things. It's safe to assume that all of the apostles and Jesus Himself drank wine with their meals. It was common practice back then. Even in 1 Timothy where we see St. Paul talking about the qualities of pastors and elders, he mentions "not addicted to wine". Not addicted means one is free to imbibe within moderate norms, e.g. meals, etc.

In terms of pastors or elders or laymen moving away from biblical truths in congregations, we are exhorted by scripture to point out their errors. If they don't listen, we are to take it to the elders, if they still don't listen, we are told to treat them like pagans and tax collectors. Ugly fact, but biblical nontheless. I've seen this in Lutheran churches. Thankfully, where I go, the pastors and elders take a dim view on anything that is not purely scriptural.

Anyhow... find a church that teaches only biblical truths and points people to Jesus. Every church's mission should be the same: Bringing people to a saving relationship with Jesus Christ, and then educating them in the scripture so they can read and hear what God's will is for them through careful prayer and Christian living.


19

The wisest man that I have ever known - my first pastor - gave me this encouragement while he was on his deathbed. (My family had just moved to different state and was looking for a church.) There might be a church out there that you need, but there are more churches that need you.


20

Ok. So I know there are things I want in a church:

Liturgy - I love the format of a traditional church, mainly because I know when the sermon is and I Communion is incredibly important to me. Just have communion weekly, and a well defined, scripture based sermon, and some music and I'm ok.

Music - though I can be picky, if the sermon is good, I'm willing to suffer through terrible music - it means its something I can do for the church.

Community - I understand that its largely what you make of it. How much are you willing to do?

There are two things I refuse to compromise on: Biblical teaching and Discipleship.

But most of my church-going life has been dealing with avoidant church leaders who look the other way when I approach them, lack of discipleship, and non-biblical teaching (not all in the same place, but some of this and that here and there).

I try not to approach a church as a consumer, but its really hard not to when your treated like one.


21

One book that really impacted me was Joshua Harris' "Stop Dating the Church" - it offers goo dinsight into what it means to love the Body of Christ as Jesus did.
Lately though - one of my roommates has been struggling with the idea of trying out new churches to meet new guys? I don't know if this is a good, God-honoring idea or not...thoughts?


22

There are only two must haves for the Churches I select:

1.) A thriving singles ministry.
2.) A thriving small groups ministry.

For some age brackets, the majority of people are single. Churches that ignore the special spiritual needs of modern singles are missing a huge ministry opportunity. In particular, churches that cut off ministry to singles at age 30 are missing the boat. I have seen many published estimates that say that over 50% of women over the age of 40 are single. I have seen the fruits of huge divorce recovery ministries where literally dozens of people came to know the Lord through a simple newspaper ad and multi-week divorce recovery small group. For younger singles, a healthy group can produce many healthy marriages – especially if the teaching is good.

I can deal with simple sermons as long as there is healthy outreach to seekers. I prefer to get my substantial spiritual food at the weekly small groups meeting where there is ample interaction and discussion about spiritual applications.

As for music, now that I am getting older, I am getting tired of hearing rock music in church. I enjoy the old classic hymns more and more as the years go by. I am not big on stuffy classical music in church where there is an emphasis on performance. In some churches, it seems like the congregation is receiving more worship (and entertainment) than the Lord. I have been in churches where there are paid soloists in the choir, and it is like a trip to the metropolitan opera. Just does not give me a warm feeling inside.


23

This post and the comments are helpful (perhaps more so than the original Involuntary Community article).

I don't see anything wrong with looking for churches that suit us (and I'm finding increasingly that the one I grew up in no longer does suit me). The important question is whether we're looking for a church that we can get the most out of, or one that will enable and encourage us to put the most in. At the end of the day, a lot of the criteria we look for might be the same, but the attitude will make all the difference.


24

Eliza, if you really want honest answers, you should also ask non-Christians, or at least think about how they would answer you questions.

I think they'd tell you that, for the most part, they don't really notice Christians being any different than anyone else, except when they make a lot of noise in the media, or when a kid in school speaks awkwardly questions evolution in science class. Those few Christians who really do seem to shine to everyone--I'm thinking Mother Theresa, or those Amish people who were so forgiving when one of their own was killed--are such a minority that I'd suggest it's more a matter of having an appealing personalities or dispositions than something to do with the Holy Spirit: otherwise, a lot more Christians would 'shine'!

I think that often, when people in prayer groups bring up as an item of praise an opportunity they've had to "be a witness", the target in question didn't really think anything of it. Like I remember a few years back at the church I went to they organized a big event to attract the 'youth' to the church, with music and food and a 'good message' and so on, and after, when I heard some kids talking about it, they were just making rude jokes about an older member of the congregation, and saying how gross the squares were--yet in church the next day people were praising God for having 'planted seeds' in the hearts of the youth... it's hard to say where the evidence for this was. Things like that happen all the time: you've got the prayer group in the basement praying about outreach, and in the wider community, nobody's thinking about it. Look at all the good the Salvation Army does, yet when you think 'Salvation Army', you think of old clothes!

Your comment about Christina's comment, that it's likely conforming to an image of Jesus is a result of the tendency to conform to anything we focus on for a long period of time, would be considered self-evident by most people. I don't think it's necessary to bring in another cause in the form of some "transforming power" unique to Christianity to explain it: look at how little kids are "transformed" by pop stars, or how we're all "transformed" by our conditions growing up--or leaving home--and so on. Of course, you're probably going to be a nicer person if you become more like Jesus than some pop star!

Again, I'd ask these questions to more than just Christians, especially the first one.


25

I left out must have solid Biblical teaching. I assumed that is a given. But, absent that it would be a deal breaker!


26

I've always been a server through and through- having grown up in my church tasting never came into it, once I got old enough I just served where I could. However recently tasting has come into it more as my fiance and I must decide which church we are going to attend, so I've been 'tasting' his church while still remaining a server at mine!

obewan, why must a church have a thriving singles ministry? I think that is restricting your possibilities for a bad reason. Our church doesn't have a small groups ministry, and I think that's great. It means I'm friends with everyone, not just singles.

Why must it have a thriving small groups ministry? Perhaps you are the one to start a small groups ministry somewhere!

Personally I think the most important thing about choosing a church is solid, truthful bible teaching. Most other things are secondary, but next in line is a welcoming congregation and heartfelt worship.


27

Leah:

The reason I seek a thriving singles ministry is because as a lifetime single, I understand well the issues singles face. That is the ministry I feel called to serve in. I see it as a huge outreach to the community.

Singles have social needs that are different than married couples and families, but it goes beyond that. They also have loneliness needs that can cause spiritual struggles. Yes, married people and single people can and do fellowship together in healthy churches, and that is why I say there should be a good small groups ministry where they can fellowship together; but, there are limits to fellowship between married couples and singles.

In almost every case, my single friends virtually dropped off the face of the earth once they married. The focus of time centers on spouse, home and family. Aside from an occasional infrequent dinner invitation, there is little frequent fellowship.

A singles group can take the place of a surrogate family for those who live alone. There is regular contact, prayer, support, and encouragement. Also, a singles group is a place for healthy marriages to take root and for people to receive healing through divorce recovery in the case of failed marriages.

The call to evangelism should surely address singles as a leading demographic ministry target. If you don’t believe me, just look at all the single serving frozen food entrées next time you visit your local grocery store.

Churches that have a heavy emphasis on “family ministry” and nothing for singles turn off most singles I know. They feel left out. One church I was a former member of had a thriving family ministry, but nothing for singles over age 30. One ministry was even called the “Couples Club”. They had car rallies, picnics, game nights, etc. Did we feel left out and discriminated against? You can draw your own conclusions.

What about me starting a small groups ministry? That is better left to a full time staff member. I have served as a small groups leader in the past, and that has been a blessing. However, the church I currently attend has nearly 4000 members and nearly 400 small groups.

The Willow Creek whole group, small group model is an effective one. Studies have shown that the most effective group size for healthy discipleship is 12-15 people. Once a group gets larger, the accountability, support, and personal growth can become diluted. I never said that a small group had to be just for singles. The main point I raise is that singles have special needs that should be addressed by healthy churches.


28

I've been struggling with this issue, lately. I've visited two Catholic churches, a Serbian Orthodox church, an ashram, a Buddhist Temple, and today a United Methodist church. I plan on going to an independent Christian church called Bethel Temple pretty soon.

But today's visit and the wonderful people I met at this Methodist church are forcing me to consider that it may just be close *enough* to not shop around, anymore. While I have some reservations -- mainly about the homogeneity of the congregation -- I feel a bit of an obligation to the people who were so kind to and interested in me this morning to show my face again and to contribute some of my own attempts at unconditional love toward this community.

Still, I'll check out this next church and see what happens. But I feel a little guilty for "church shopping."

But maybe I could liken it to the search for a husband. Well, if one were actively searching for a husband (which I didn't but ended up with, anyway). We don't stick with the first person we find. But if we can find another person to be our mate, who is fundamentally tolerable, someone we like and maybe even fall in love with, then we can work on accepting and loving the rest of them.

And I think this can go for finding a church. You need one in which you feel comfortable *enough* -- with the community, the philosophy, the goals, the views -- to be able to stay with in the long term. We develop strong, personal relationships with our church communities, so I think it's important to at least do a little bit of "shopping around," for a community which fundamentally fits.


29

Maria said the following "I've visited two Catholic churches, a Serbian Orthodox church, an ashram, a Buddhist Temple, and today a United Methodist church."

Maria - Do you know Jesus as your Savior? Do you know that he said "no-one comes to the Father but by Me." What is your motivation for looking for a church? Are you still seeking? I do not know why a born-again Christian would attend a Buddhist or ashram temple.


Post a comment*

*Comments are moderated, and will not appear on The Line until we've approved them. Usually you'll see your comment published in under an hour, but it may take up to a day or so during evenings or over the weekend. While we are eager to facilitate civil conversation by publishing most comments, we're inclined not to publish those that strike us as offensive, vulgar, overly personal, cynical, snarky, deceptive, disrespectful, irrelevant, redundant or unnecessarily contentious.

External Links

Note: Links to external sites do not constitute blanket endorsement or complete agreement by Boundless or Focus on the Family with information or resources offered at or through those sites.




Whether you live in Singapore or Seattle, all you need to provide now to receive our free weekly e-newsletter is your e-mail address. It's that easy!

 

GOOGLE THIS BLOG

SUBSCRIBE VIA EMAIL


Be friends with Boundless
Follow Boundless
The Boundless Show




    Copyright 2009 Focus on the Family. All rights reserved. International copyright secured. The Line and Boundless Line are trademarks of Focus on the Family.
Home
ArticlesBlogsBest OfGuys GuideFull Homepage
 

Newer Post | Older Post


Finding the Perfect Church
by Heather Koerner on 02/08/2008 at 1:53 PM

Tim Challies' article, Involuntary Community, is a good challenge against "church shopping" and reminded me of a passage from one of my favorite books, The Screwtape Letters by C.S. Lewis.

In Letter 16, Lewis has the demon Screwtape write a letter to Screwtape's demon nephew, Wormwood, advising him to attack a certain human's loyal attendance to a church:

"Surely you know that if a man can't be cured of churchgoing, the next best thing is to send him all over the neighbourhood looking for the church that 'suits' him until he becomes a taster or connoisseur of churches.

The reasons are obvious. In the first place, the parochial organisation should always be attacked because, being a unity of place and not of likings, it brings people of different classes and psychology together in the kind of unity the Enemy desires. The congregational principle, on the other hand, makes each church into a kind of club, and finally, if all goes well, into a coterie or faction. In the second place, the search for a 'suitable' church makes the man a critic where the Enemy wants him to be a pupil."

I remember this passage so well because I've never been in a "parish" system and didn't see much use for them. But Lewis showed me one definite benefit -- when the church is based on geography and not choice, I must love all my brothers and sisters in Christ, not just my chosen favorites.

I still prefer the congregational system. I want to be able to attend a church that I know teaches the Word. But I've also seen the benefits of a gracious heart. Five years ago when my husband and I committed to our church, the preaching was biblical and wonderful, the music program was not. As a lifelong lover of music and singer, that was hard. But we put aside our preference and worshiped right along. Now, the teaching is still biblical and the music program is flourishing. God taught us that service is more important than shopping.

So are you a taster or a server? A critic or a pupil? Maybe it's time for a little JFKism: Ask not what your church can do for you....

Comments

Feed You can follow this conversation by subscribing to the comment feed for this post.

1

I'm so glad you posted this--my pastor just started a series on serving, and just talked about this in particular!! :o) Thanks!


2

When I was in upper high school, the church my family had been part of for a number of years really started to turn away from following the Lord. After trying unsuccessfully to help get the people back on track, my parents felt God leading them to leave and search for a church family elsewhere. Over the next couple years our family "test drove" I think four different churches in our town. We wanted to find a place where we would be able to learn and grow the most but especially where we would be able to serve the Lord effectively.

My parents valued the opinions of us kids, since they wanted us to enjoy and be a part of the church, too, so we would have discussions over what we liked and disliked about each church. We needed to be honest, but we also discovered, with our parents, that it was really easy to fall into just being a church critic. We had to learn to be careful as we evaluated and talked that we had the right attitudes about what was actually important and what was just our preference and what we could personally get involved in and help improve. It was a challenge, but it ended up being a very good spiritual exercise.

At the end, we finally came to the conclusion that none of the churches in our town were really headed in the direction the Lord was leading my father, so he got together with some other like-minded fathers and started a new church. We didn't look down on the churches we decided not to join. They had good qualities, and each had members that we enjoyed and loved very much. But as a whole they weren't what we were looking for.

Now I'm not saying that everyone who can't find a church they like should start their own. In fact, the reason my family had joined the first church we left was because my father could see a need in that church that God was calling him to fill. But I am saying that learning to be discerning--but not critical--can help you more clearly decide where the Lord is leading you, be it a church that needs work (they all do!) or starting a new one. God isn't going to tell everyone the same thing, but He will always tell us what's best for us, and for His kingdom.

I know that lesson will help me thoughout life. Once I graduated from college and moved to another town for a job, I had to start looking for churches on my own. I had to remember not to be critical but just observant and attentive to God's spirit. God can minister to different needs through different styles, sizes, focuses, and demographics of different churches. My search ended with the Lord leading me to a church that is the best one I have ever gone to. The teaching is solid, life-changing Scripture. The music is top-notch, upbeat, and full of truth. The general attitude is one of serving the Lord whole-heartedly and enthusiasticly, and of bringing as many people to know Him as possible. The kids ministry is amazing. There are multiple opportunities for me to use my talents and interests for the Lord, something I had really been longing for. I feel at home, but I am also pushed to grow.

I have now been there a year and a half and I still thank the Lord for what a perfect blessing it has been in my life. So you never know what will happen when you go church shopping with Jesus! I'm sorry my post is so long, but I hope my story will be an encouragement to others!


3

Well, leave it to God to smack me in the teeth with truth. I have become a church taster. I am currently looking for a church home and have been hopping around for months. I realize now that I was asking the wrong question. What can I do for this church? Thx, tp


4

I think I'm a critic and a pupil. I try to learn from most of my spiritual settings. I tend to take notes at small groups, church service, and Sunday School. Yet I long for the "perfect" church - not just what it can do for me, but also what I can do for it. I KNOW we can never find the right one, but I wonder if there's a better fit 'out there' - even if in another state? Probably I wouldn't change states just for the church, though... I'm not sure what points I should compromise on...perhaps I'm greedy, but this is what I really would like:

*VERY Biblical sermons, exegetical, understanding it in its proper context, sticking closely to the text, verse-by-verse, and applying it to life (perhaps I'm too picky... though I've seen it done and LOVE it)
*humble leadership/pastor
*lyrically strong (Biblical) worship music (I can compromise on that one)*good sense of community (that that can be developped, though)
*small groups that are Biblically solid and also very loving (can compromise on that one)
*VERY Biblically based Sunday Schools (can compromise on that one)

I guess I don't know what points I should be willing to compromise. Like my expectations for Biblical depth might be too high. (Many churches are probably Biblical, but I guess I crave depth and close readings of the text and application.) Is it okay not to expect deep growth in the knowledge department? I guess so...

I've been going to a church in my city for a few months. But I still am not sure it's "the one"...should I still become a member of it at one point? I actually may not even be a member of any church though I've been in churches all my life. I think the membership issue was mentioned in another post or comment discussion, though...

I have various involvements - involved w/ my ex-church, involved with an ex-grad school group, involved with my current church...eventually I plan to narrow down the involvements so that I'm not involved w/ more than one church, or if I am, very minimally w/ the "other" church...

I tried a few churches last year, and have consistently been going to one for the past few months, but I'm not sure if it's where I should be long-term, and how picky I can be...

It's tough. I know no community is perfect, but, still I wonder 'what if the perfect fit is out there...' But of course it's important to serve wherever one is, even if it's not the 'ideal match'....


5

I agree that the church is who you serve, not what you can receive. And I am incredibly thankful that God uses our natural giftings to enjoy Him.

However, I think Challies' article included too many broad-based generalizations and superficial assumptions for me to really sink into. "I bought a second generation iPod and only shop at Urban Outfitters...am I a church snob, too?"

Who is this "we" he keeps invoking? I didn't identify with his examples, and I live in the Bay Area and recently changed churches.

I'm not trying to assert my individualism and evade being branded, I just think that his appeal missed the mark.

Creative expression and a knowledge of personal preferences are not the mark of spiritual immaturity.


6

I love this same passage from Screwtape Letters. It has really saved me from a great deal of useless church shopping. My congregation has gone through some really rough times over the past 25 years. Friends of mine left in droves claiming that the church was dying, and I felt like the only one left behind. But I kept standing firm in the fact that I should stay where I was. Eventually many of those who left came back. I think I came out better for staying all along, because I have a strength in spiritual adversity that they lack. This is not a put down of the others, but persistence pays off in the Lord's kingdom.


7

Well...I'm both.

I'm a taster when I'm looking for biblical teaching and creed. The Creed is always the first thing I look at when going to a new church. Service layout/sermon is also important to me (is it obvious you are preaching a sermon and are you actually saying something?) Usually those problems I've come across in mega churches where the pastor is incredibly ADD and the church is really too big for any real accountability.

I'm a server in the fact that I actually do want to be active in ministries (and have been in the past).

I'm a critic when it comes to unbiblical teaching and ADD preachers who can't focus for more than 2 minutes. I'm a pupil where I want to listen and take notes and look up references given. I want to be discipled and taught how to serve better.

Unfortunately, I'm living in a way that is very "church surfer"ish. I was attending a church for a while and was learning - i loved it. But at some point I was ready to serve to. After talking to the pastor and trying to get involved for 6 months, I realized that the church pretty much abandons you at a certain point. I haven't really had good luck with churches in the area I'm in.

I fell in love with a church in another state and am actually planning on relocating there.

I really think that to some extent, my approach to church going is biblical. Sometimes I wonder if I'm simply too whiney.


8

My father always said: If you find the perfect church don't join it--you'll ruin it.

I guess I'm only left with imperfect churches;).


9

You know, the group that needs this the most is students at Christian colleges. Around my alma mater that are at least a dozen good churches. People become shallow snobs when it comes to choosing a church.
"This one isn't contemporary enough"
"This one is too contemporary"
"The pastor looked at me the wrong way"
"The pastor didn't look at me"
"I didn't like the tone in his voice"
"I didn't get invited over to lunch at that church"
"His sermon wasn't good enough"
From experience, these sorts of excuses are a display of false piety (I used at least half of the above excuses my first 3 years of college).
One of the difficulties of serving in a church while you are in college is balancing it with academics and the social aspect of college. There was nothing worse than being asked to babysit only to have to say "No" because you had a paper due the next day.
When you are unable to serve, it makes being part of a church that much more difficult because you are only there on Sunday mornings and (if you aren't sleeping or finishing something that's due Monday) evenings. You become a consumer. It's difficult.
I'm glad those days are over.


10

Just like you Heather I love music and a enjoy singing so I usually chose a church for only that reason. However, I attended a church last summer because I was searching for a new church in my home town and I really didn't like the worship music, but the preaching was also "biblical and wonderful" and the sense of family that I got from the people there was great so I decided to stay and I don't regret my decision.


11

I just read the article and have found myself nodding in agreement. Mainly I do this because I see it being so true.

I know that I have strived to NOT have a consumerist mindset, though I'd be a fool to think that I was immune to such temptations. And so I've wrestled with the issue off and on for quite some time.

Basically, I feel I've avoided the issue personally by choosing a church relatively soon after I have to change (i.e. in my case, the church I first attended after I was saved had to close, and I had to leave the church I went to next because I moved out of the area. Now I'm at a good church and plan on sticking around until I move, die, or the church closes), and if that church is good on the teaching of correct doctrine and faithfully preaching the Word of God, then I see no reason to change.

However, I've seen not the same in friends of mine who bounced around from church to church every Sunday. And it saddened me. It wasn't community, it was individualistic. No time to really form bonds.

Thus, the issue of choosing a church raises these pondering questions:

*Where does proper discernment end, and personal preference begin? When IS the right time to leave a church.

*Where does proper discernment end and personal preference begin when CHOOSING a church to go to when you have had to change churches (due to moving, etc.).

*When should one leave a church due to serious error?

*How do we balance truth and love since to God they are unseperatable from themselves. What is the proper balance?

I'd challenge all to think on these things. And, if one is in a solid church with good teaching and preaching, STICK WITH IT. The minor "annoyances" can be worked out. Don't go to be fed (though that is partly why we need the Church) only, but to serve as well. When we all serve each other, we end up being fed as well....by someone else who is serving too.


12

Tasting attitudes can work both ways, as my husband and I have recently learned. We just moved back to my old hometown and to a new church; we knew enough about the church in advance that we felt we only needed to attend one service to verify that it is indeed where we want to transfer our membership. What has surprised us is that the people there (even the pastor!) have been bending over backwards to make sure that we're really certain this is the "right fit" for us, that we're not being too hasty, or feeling pushed to commit before we're ready. My husband and I are coming at it from the attitude of "grow where you're planted," but they're acting like we should be tumbleweeds! It's sad to see that they are clearly used to new members being Tasters rather than Servers.


13

For me, I've grown up in this chuch that i love, and from what i can remember I joined it because i liked the games at sunday school(i was 8...)But now, 7 years on, I really praise God for my church and love it to bits. But the funny thing is that I've realised it has so much imperfection, like our service sometimes sucks, my friends sometimes let me down, but yet i love it to bits. A church you love and that's awesome isn't going to be perfect, it's no fun if it is. :)But it's really important to take time to seek God about each church before you decide on yes or no.

James, you were raising the questions of when should you leave a chuch when there is serious error. If it's a completely justified and an error that's going to affect spiritual growth, then when you've gently pointed it out to the pastors, reminded them, and little effort for improvement is given, prayed about it and have peace about moving, then i think it's ok to leave that chuch. But to be honest it's something that should really be avoided.

You know, i'm actually dreading when i have to leave for Uni and find a new church...


14

"Consumerist" isn't really the right word.

Theology matters; what a church teaches and stands for matters.

Some issues might include:

Calvinism vs. Arminianism;
credobaptism vs. paedobaptism (baptizing believers vs. prinkling infants);
full immersion baptism vs. sprinkling

If you disagree in good conscience with your church, you ought to have the liberty in Christ to find one you do agree with. If Martin Luther had thought that community was more important than truth, he would never have nailed his 95 theses to the church door.

It's about placing a proper value on theological and Biblical truth. "Consumerism" is choosing Coke over Pepsi.


15

I agree with John D. that theology matters, but it's hard for me to know to what extent I should compromise and how picky I should be. It's uncomfortable not being sure of where to commit. I'm enjoying getting involved with the community at the church I'm at now. (I felt like at my past church I mostly socialized with family members on Sundays. Though it was good to see them and I love them, really enjoyed the preaching there, and am still involved with a ministry at that church, I decided to try to branch out and get plugged into another church community.) My current church's views on baptism are different from my own, but if it is not treated as a salvation issue (which is something I should figure out), I think I could treat it as a peripheral issue. I have an idea of what denomination my views might be more in line with, and did try one church (kind of far away) of that denomination a long time ago, but maybe I should try more...they are some distance away, though...Kind-of confusing to know what to prioritize. In the Bible though, it seemed that the community was an important aspect...so maybe I shouldn't be TOO picky with theology and the teaching?


16

Personally, I like most churches I've been to ;-). They are all so different and unique. The hard part is deciding on just one to join.


17

i'd like to suggest reading "The Kingdom -Focused Church" by Gene Mims.

that's all i gotta say :)


18

Finding a church home can be difficlt. I decided years ago to stick with the Lutheran church for several reasons:

- Liturgical
- Synodical oversight keeps the congregation in check and provides a "magesterium" of sorts
- Traditional worship with no theologically-wanting happy-clappy worship
- Sola scriptura, sola fide, sola gratia

One of the problems I see is that people are becoming more concerned with "how" the church worships rather than what is being taught. I like the Lutheran chuch because they teach only what is biblical. No one would dare recommend books by certain megachurch authors.

There is so much theologically wanting teachings out there it's scary. So many congregations teach the prosperity gospel, teach wrongly about the distinction between law and gospel (some have made the law the gospel in their outlook), rock bands in church and then having no actual sermons/message, no teaching about sin/forgiveness, etc.

I attended one church when visiting a friend (big mistake) where the pastor actually said that drinking alcohol will send you to hell. It's this kind of fundamentalist teaching that makes congregations learn the wrong things. It's safe to assume that all of the apostles and Jesus Himself drank wine with their meals. It was common practice back then. Even in 1 Timothy where we see St. Paul talking about the qualities of pastors and elders, he mentions "not addicted to wine". Not addicted means one is free to imbibe within moderate norms, e.g. meals, etc.

In terms of pastors or elders or laymen moving away from biblical truths in congregations, we are exhorted by scripture to point out their errors. If they don't listen, we are to take it to the elders, if they still don't listen, we are told to treat them like pagans and tax collectors. Ugly fact, but biblical nontheless. I've seen this in Lutheran churches. Thankfully, where I go, the pastors and elders take a dim view on anything that is not purely scriptural.

Anyhow... find a church that teaches only biblical truths and points people to Jesus. Every church's mission should be the same: Bringing people to a saving relationship with Jesus Christ, and then educating them in the scripture so they can read and hear what God's will is for them through careful prayer and Christian living.


19

The wisest man that I have ever known - my first pastor - gave me this encouragement while he was on his deathbed. (My family had just moved to different state and was looking for a church.) There might be a church out there that you need, but there are more churches that need you.


20

Ok. So I know there are things I want in a church:

Liturgy - I love the format of a traditional church, mainly because I know when the sermon is and I Communion is incredibly important to me. Just have communion weekly, and a well defined, scripture based sermon, and some music and I'm ok.

Music - though I can be picky, if the sermon is good, I'm willing to suffer through terrible music - it means its something I can do for the church.

Community - I understand that its largely what you make of it. How much are you willing to do?

There are two things I refuse to compromise on: Biblical teaching and Discipleship.

But most of my church-going life has been dealing with avoidant church leaders who look the other way when I approach them, lack of discipleship, and non-biblical teaching (not all in the same place, but some of this and that here and there).

I try not to approach a church as a consumer, but its really hard not to when your treated like one.


21

One book that really impacted me was Joshua Harris' "Stop Dating the Church" - it offers goo dinsight into what it means to love the Body of Christ as Jesus did.
Lately though - one of my roommates has been struggling with the idea of trying out new churches to meet new guys? I don't know if this is a good, God-honoring idea or not...thoughts?


22

There are only two must haves for the Churches I select:

1.) A thriving singles ministry.
2.) A thriving small groups ministry.

For some age brackets, the majority of people are single. Churches that ignore the special spiritual needs of modern singles are missing a huge ministry opportunity. In particular, churches that cut off ministry to singles at age 30 are missing the boat. I have seen many published estimates that say that over 50% of women over the age of 40 are single. I have seen the fruits of huge divorce recovery ministries where literally dozens of people came to know the Lord through a simple newspaper ad and multi-week divorce recovery small group. For younger singles, a healthy group can produce many healthy marriages – especially if the teaching is good.

I can deal with simple sermons as long as there is healthy outreach to seekers. I prefer to get my substantial spiritual food at the weekly small groups meeting where there is ample interaction and discussion about spiritual applications.

As for music, now that I am getting older, I am getting tired of hearing rock music in church. I enjoy the old classic hymns more and more as the years go by. I am not big on stuffy classical music in church where there is an emphasis on performance. In some churches, it seems like the congregation is receiving more worship (and entertainment) than the Lord. I have been in churches where there are paid soloists in the choir, and it is like a trip to the metropolitan opera. Just does not give me a warm feeling inside.


23

This post and the comments are helpful (perhaps more so than the original Involuntary Community article).

I don't see anything wrong with looking for churches that suit us (and I'm finding increasingly that the one I grew up in no longer does suit me). The important question is whether we're looking for a church that we can get the most out of, or one that will enable and encourage us to put the most in. At the end of the day, a lot of the criteria we look for might be the same, but the attitude will make all the difference.


24

Eliza, if you really want honest answers, you should also ask non-Christians, or at least think about how they would answer you questions.

I think they'd tell you that, for the most part, they don't really notice Christians being any different than anyone else, except when they make a lot of noise in the media, or when a kid in school speaks awkwardly questions evolution in science class. Those few Christians who really do seem to shine to everyone--I'm thinking Mother Theresa, or those Amish people who were so forgiving when one of their own was killed--are such a minority that I'd suggest it's more a matter of having an appealing personalities or dispositions than something to do with the Holy Spirit: otherwise, a lot more Christians would 'shine'!

I think that often, when people in prayer groups bring up as an item of praise an opportunity they've had to "be a witness", the target in question didn't really think anything of it. Like I remember a few years back at the church I went to they organized a big event to attract the 'youth' to the church, with music and food and a 'good message' and so on, and after, when I heard some kids talking about it, they were just making rude jokes about an older member of the congregation, and saying how gross the squares were--yet in church the next day people were praising God for having 'planted seeds' in the hearts of the youth... it's hard to say where the evidence for this was. Things like that happen all the time: you've got the prayer group in the basement praying about outreach, and in the wider community, nobody's thinking about it. Look at all the good the Salvation Army does, yet when you think 'Salvation Army', you think of old clothes!

Your comment about Christina's comment, that it's likely conforming to an image of Jesus is a result of the tendency to conform to anything we focus on for a long period of time, would be considered self-evident by most people. I don't think it's necessary to bring in another cause in the form of some "transforming power" unique to Christianity to explain it: look at how little kids are "transformed" by pop stars, or how we're all "transformed" by our conditions growing up--or leaving home--and so on. Of course, you're probably going to be a nicer person if you become more like Jesus than some pop star!

Again, I'd ask these questions to more than just Christians, especially the first one.


25

I left out must have solid Biblical teaching. I assumed that is a given. But, absent that it would be a deal breaker!


26

I've always been a server through and through- having grown up in my church tasting never came into it, once I got old enough I just served where I could. However recently tasting has come into it more as my fiance and I must decide which church we are going to attend, so I've been 'tasting' his church while still remaining a server at mine!

obewan, why must a church have a thriving singles ministry? I think that is restricting your possibilities for a bad reason. Our church doesn't have a small groups ministry, and I think that's great. It means I'm friends with everyone, not just singles.

Why must it have a thriving small groups ministry? Perhaps you are the one to start a small groups ministry somewhere!

Personally I think the most important thing about choosing a church is solid, truthful bible teaching. Most other things are secondary, but next in line is a welcoming congregation and heartfelt worship.


27

Leah:

The reason I seek a thriving singles ministry is because as a lifetime single, I understand well the issues singles face. That is the ministry I feel called to serve in. I see it as a huge outreach to the community.

Singles have social needs that are different than married couples and families, but it goes beyond that. They also have loneliness needs that can cause spiritual struggles. Yes, married people and single people can and do fellowship together in healthy churches, and that is why I say there should be a good small groups ministry where they can fellowship together; but, there are limits to fellowship between married couples and singles.

In almost every case, my single friends virtually dropped off the face of the earth once they married. The focus of time centers on spouse, home and family. Aside from an occasional infrequent dinner invitation, there is little frequent fellowship.

A singles group can take the place of a surrogate family for those who live alone. There is regular contact, prayer, support, and encouragement. Also, a singles group is a place for healthy marriages to take root and for people to receive healing through divorce recovery in the case of failed marriages.

The call to evangelism should surely address singles as a leading demographic ministry target. If you don’t believe me, just look at all the single serving frozen food entrées next time you visit your local grocery store.

Churches that have a heavy emphasis on “family ministry” and nothing for singles turn off most singles I know. They feel left out. One church I was a former member of had a thriving family ministry, but nothing for singles over age 30. One ministry was even called the “Couples Club”. They had car rallies, picnics, game nights, etc. Did we feel left out and discriminated against? You can draw your own conclusions.

What about me starting a small groups ministry? That is better left to a full time staff member. I have served as a small groups leader in the past, and that has been a blessing. However, the church I currently attend has nearly 4000 members and nearly 400 small groups.

The Willow Creek whole group, small group model is an effective one. Studies have shown that the most effective group size for healthy discipleship is 12-15 people. Once a group gets larger, the accountability, support, and personal growth can become diluted. I never said that a small group had to be just for singles. The main point I raise is that singles have special needs that should be addressed by healthy churches.


28

I've been struggling with this issue, lately. I've visited two Catholic churches, a Serbian Orthodox church, an ashram, a Buddhist Temple, and today a United Methodist church. I plan on going to an independent Christian church called Bethel Temple pretty soon.

But today's visit and the wonderful people I met at this Methodist church are forcing me to consider that it may just be close *enough* to not shop around, anymore. While I have some reservations -- mainly about the homogeneity of the congregation -- I feel a bit of an obligation to the people who were so kind to and interested in me this morning to show my face again and to contribute some of my own attempts at unconditional love toward this community.

Still, I'll check out this next church and see what happens. But I feel a little guilty for "church shopping."

But maybe I could liken it to the search for a husband. Well, if one were actively searching for a husband (which I didn't but ended up with, anyway). We don't stick with the first person we find. But if we can find another person to be our mate, who is fundamentally tolerable, someone we like and maybe even fall in love with, then we can work on accepting and loving the rest of them.

And I think this can go for finding a church. You need one in which you feel comfortable *enough* -- with the community, the philosophy, the goals, the views -- to be able to stay with in the long term. We develop strong, personal relationships with our church communities, so I think it's important to at least do a little bit of "shopping around," for a community which fundamentally fits.


29

Maria said the following "I've visited two Catholic churches, a Serbian Orthodox church, an ashram, a Buddhist Temple, and today a United Methodist church."

Maria - Do you know Jesus as your Savior? Do you know that he said "no-one comes to the Father but by Me." What is your motivation for looking for a church? Are you still seeking? I do not know why a born-again Christian would attend a Buddhist or ashram temple.



If you'd like to leave a comment, we're afraid you'll have to use a non-mobile device to do so. I just couldn't get the mobile comment entry form to work right. Alas. ~Ted.