Taking the Gospel to Unexpected Places
by Suzanne Hadley Gosselin on 01/31/2008 at 4:03 PM
Steve poses a good question about the next generation of the church. One trend I've noticed in my generation is a desire to take Christ to the culture instead of forcing them to come to us inside the church.
Eric Simmons' article "Meeting God in the Saloon" talks about that very thing. He recounts an unexpected opportunity for evangelism that happened when he and a buddy were passing through Colorado on a cross-country road trip:
We were dead tired, we were starving, and the only place open was ... The Saloon. I kid you not: The Saloon. When Andrew and I walked through the double doors it felt like the record player scratched to a stop. Everybody turned to look at us. They could tell we weren't from around them thar parts.
Andrew and I hurried over to the corner, doing our best not to make eye contact. Near us was a group of about six people. They probably had 20 shot glasses on their table. They were toasting, one shot at a time. One of the men toasted, "To Jesus Christ and to Satan, his brother."
I had prayed that morning for an opportunity to share the gospel but this was not what I had in mind. Six drunk people in a saloon was not my idea of opportunity. I had in mind some hikers on a beautiful train in Rocky Mountain national park.
Simmons points out that sometimes we are not aware of the mission field God has given us. He says:
Our hearts should cry to God that the whole world would know Jesus. But in our post-Christian society there's an emerging unreached people group. And they're not in a foreign country. They live right down the street.
Frankly, sometimes I think the most unreached people in the world are the ones next door. The neighbors, the classmates, the co-workers, the acquaintances at the shops I frequent -- all of them are in need of the gospel.
Living like a missionary who's sent by God changes my perspective on life. I no longer just go to the gym, the store, school, the staff party, the restaurant; now I recognize that God sends me. I'm not "just going"; I'm sent.
When you look at your life that way, you begin to see the many possibilities. I told a little bit of Eric's story in my article "The Impatient Evangelist." Something he said has stuck with me:
"If you're praying for opportunities, your mind and your heart and your eyes are open," Eric says. "When you love people and listen to people, you're going to see entry points."
I think our generation of the Body of Christ desires that: to be loving, listening Christians who are sensitive to the entry points God provides. Think of that next time you find yourself in the gym, grocery store...or saloon.
1. Tami said the following at 4:23 PM on Jan 31:
Thanks so much. I appreciate both articles, yours and Eric's.
And, great providential timing. I'm facing the challenge to be "ready in season and out of season" (in fact, that was the topic of Sunday's sermon in my church), so for the last few days have been praying about how I can do that. Between the final words of a book I finished up last night, and these articles, I know that Christ intends to go out with me as I go -- and that I have a duty to take Him.
As I get older I'm learning that there's no "formula" for evangelism. It's simply knowing what you believe, and being willing to genuinely talk about it, and serving others out of love in the process.
2. Kristina said the following at 4:34 PM on Jan 31:
I know a couple who consider a trip to Wal-Mart an opportunity for evangelism. They're so focused on sharing Christ that their mission field has no boundaries - it's everywhere. What an admirable attitude to emulate!
3. Rachael said the following at 6:17 PM on Jan 31:
We should always remember that we can be a witness where we are...I usually wait for opportunities to come to me, though; I don't usually create them...
Should be a matter of prayer; thanks for the reminder.
Here are some entry point examples/ideas/things to think about:
*conversations with co-workers
*we don't have to hide our involvements in Christian activities
*international students/people. Often, the world really has come to us. Evangelism through relationships, Bible study, or teaching. In teaching, probably you'll find opportunities to comment to what students have written about Christianity (if they're of a higher level), or, if they know you're a Christian, they might just "randomly" start talking a bit about religious matters. You can also share a bit about yourself, including your faith. Holidays (culture) can be another connecting point. Connecting the gospel with similar (yet very different) stories they might have in their country. (I could have blatantly connected a story in a student's culture with the story of Jesus but didn't...)
*"deep conversation" parties (well I hosted maybe 2 of these or something, and I'm not sure if there were any unbelievers present...I think they'd be more successful if everyone was reading something in common or if I only attempted one every month or few months or something...)
*in remembering that children involved in a ministry are not necessarily saved...and same thing with our "Christian circles"...though we might assume someone might be a born-again believer, they may not be...
*Through your papers or other school work.
*Random surveys. (a bit strange, but a friend and I once asked people in a grocery store if they knew who Jesus was...but we were young (post-high school, though), so perhaps it was more acceptable to the people we asked. I can't believe we did that..)
*Remember that actions are important too. People notice things...
My impression is that sometimes/often people from other countries don't always have that "talking about politics and religion is taboo with people you don't really know well" mentality that Americans sometimes have.
I'd be curious to hear of peoples' entry points. How did/do/might you witness? Any good conversation starter/transition ideas?
4. Ali said the following at 11:03 PM on Jan 31:
I just wanted to say that I think actions are at the top of the list when it comes to evangelising. People are much more likely to listen to the Good News you have to tell them if they feel your love for them displayed through acts of service. In fact, often times Jesus will be shining so brightly through you that they will ask you why you are so joyful and why it is you are serving them. Don't get me wrong, I believe it's so important to share the Gospel with people. But sometimes I think we forget that we're here to love and serve our neighbours, not just evangelise them. People don't respond well to being told they are sinful by someone they don't know. They don't realise that you're telling them in love. But they can't help but be affected by our acts of service toward them and it's when they recognise you actually care about them that they will be more open and willing to hear about Jesus.
I do agree that everywhere we go, we should be prepared to speak the truth when God leads us to do so. The opportunities are so often there but I miss them because I'm too tunnel visioned!
5. Jo said the following at 1:07 AM on Feb 1:
That last quote is SO true. I invariably find that when I remember to pray for opportunities, opportunities come up. How much of that is God's direct intervention and how much is, as Eric says, my increased awareness and preparedness to see and use 'entry points', I'm not sure - what I know is it works, and I've had several great conversations with work colleagues recently because of that.
6. an anonymous regular said the following at 1:34 AM on Feb 1:
I have always wanted to be evangelized to, and it hasn't happened yet (even though I've essentially asked for it on many occasions!)
Christians seem afraid to do it. The whole thing seems almost as fraught with anxiety as asking the girl you've got a crush on to the prom.
Honestly, I'm a little afraid for it to happen to me, because I don't want to be yelled at, or to get into an argument. Nor do I want to be disappointed by the sort of insincere-seeming God talk that proliferates in a lot of evangelistic material. I don't want to hear about "accepting Jesus as my personal Lord and Savior", I don't want to hear the same old attempts at logical proofs of the existence of God, I don't want to be talked down to as if I've never given religion a thought before, as if I'm a manifestation of stereotyped, pitiful, ignorant Unsaved Person. Of course I've given this some thought - I showed up at your Bible study, at your church.
There are so many stock phrases and stock arguments, and so few human voices...
That's one of the reasons I love Boundless - it's a lot more human and a lot less jargony than, say John Fuller's blog. You guys are a really great ministry.
But that's probably because Boundless is mostly written for an in-group of already-Christians. There's no sense (most of the time) of looking for an "entry point" - which seems a rather distastefully artificial concept - with this audience. The beliefs and worldviews of the writers simply come through in what they write, no need for hooks about Do You Know Where You'll Go When You Die or anything like that.
As a not-exactly-believer, I've met a handful of Christians who've been comfortable being their natural Christian selves around me - but mostly they seem to avoid mentioning it. Or maybe they normally avoid mentioning it - I suppose I wouldn't know.
On some level, most Christians avoid nonbelievers and most nonbelievers avoid Christians out of fear of rejection and corruption on both sides. We all want to stay within our cushy affinity groups, looking out at the distant other...
And what's with this nonbelievers/believers, Christians/nonChristians stuff, anyway?
We are human beings. A human who believes is a human who believes - a person who doesn't believe isn't an "unbeliever" but rather a person who doesn't know God. I think the semantics of this are very important - language and names can be very alienating, the language we use impacts how we think about things.
Anyway, I think this is a really important subject. I'm looking forward to reading the discussion. Thanks for the post, Suzanne.
7. t.r. said the following at 5:25 AM on Feb 1:
It has been my experience that when I lead a lifestyle that is in alignment with Christ's Kingdom, people notice. The gospel comes up because it transforms the ordinary... and people ( whether they live in America or elsewhere) want to know why.
Why are you selfless when dealing with your spouse? Why do you react to grief in the manner that you do? What on earth makes you treat a grumpy customer with genuine kindness? Why do you express hope in every circumstance (be it the death of a family member or the denial of a promotion)?
I think many people in America have heard about Jesus but have yet to see Him... that's where we come in. As we rub shoulders with those who do not yet believe, opportunities arise.
We are called to be witnesses, sharing what we ourselves have experienced. The gospel turns our life upside down- it shouldn't be hard to talk about the basis of our life.
8. Adam Sloope said the following at 6:47 AM on Feb 1:
It's the new "post-modern" idea of evangelism. This generation, my generation, your generation, does not see evangelism as something you do, it's not an activity. The evangelist of this age accept it as a lifestyle. In doing this you don't necessarily look for those perfect moments to talk to someone with tears in their eyes that have a t-shirt on that says I need Jesus, but you see the world from His eyes and with His heart and know that everyone needs Him. It isn't a task to talk about Christ, there are no certain ways to say it or preach it, it is personal relationships, rubbing elbows, general conversations filled and led by the Spirit. We must look at every day as having a specific purpose, we cannot fall into apathy.
9. Rachael said the following at 9:41 AM on Feb 1:
Dear anonymous regular,
I saw your post this morning when I was at home. I'm at work now, so I don't feel as relaxed to be all contemplative and thorough as I would be if I were at home.
Your comment reminded me of my mom -- she's told me of a couple of instances how when before she was a Christian, there were a couple of opportunities where she longed to hear more...
I'd encourage you to keep asking people you know who understand that salvation is by grace through faith. Find a church that esteems the Bible as the highest authority. Ask questions.
Have you read the Bible? I'd encourage you to read a gospel - maybe John. John 3:16 is a classical "salvation" verse; maybe you've heard it before. Romans is another good book to read. Also Ephesians 2:8-9 are good verses.
On my blog, I've written a couple of entries about the reason for the hope. I'm not a very good writer, and I may edit them, and I'll add more to 'my story'. My story might not be that interesting to anyone but me :), and I've been a Christian most my life, so it might be 'boring' to people. I'm also thinking I might write about some basic concepts in Christianity, and how to be "saved". Recently in Sunday School the pastor talked about the need to explain some concepts in "Christianese" (saved, grace, sin, salvation...)-- likely you've exposed to them before, and probably a lot of people would have some different interpretations for some of them...if you find people around you using a lot of these terms, stop them and ask them what they mean...
In short, I'd say the message of the gospel is this:
1) Understand that God is holy and perfect and people are not. We sin. Sin is anything falling short of perfection. Our sin deserves eternal punishment and separation from God.
2) God in His mercy sent Himself in the human form of His Son (Jesus) to pay the price for our sin. He paid this price when he carried our sin to the cross -- when He died. He rose again 3 days later. He ascended to heaven as is alive today.
3) Accept His gift of salvation (from sin; eternal punishment) through faith/believing in Him (Jesus), and He will give you eternal life -- hope for this life and after.
That is the short of it. My quick response. My guess is that lots of others will respond and hopefully include some Scriptural references. Always compare what people say with what the Bible says.
If you have more questions, again, please keep asking people at a Biblical church or your friends.
I'm sure lots of people here would be happy to talk about it with you. You can e-mail me if you like. My e-mail is: a-l-j-e-t-s@gmail.com (take out the hyphens, though).
Keep seeking God!
10. backslidden said the following at 11:10 AM on Feb 1:
Hey Anon. Reg.
I totally feel your pain. I've gone looking on the internet for something that wasn't totally preachy. I've looked for a real person talking about their real spiritual experiences and why they believe and what impact the man Jesus actually has on their lives, and all I found is 4 spiritual laws and a bunch of "believe and be good" messages. Finding an evangelical Christian who is actually sure about themselves spiritually-not just intellectually-is tough.
And anyway, why is this "saloon" stuff so revolutionary? Wasn't Jesus the quintessential "friend of prostitutes"?
11. Frank Martens said the following at 12:02 PM on Feb 1:
Check this out:
I witnessed to a guy in my office that just got out of 22 years in jail. The guy doesn't work for the same company, but here was here putting up sheet-rock in another part of the building. Who'da thunk? I figured I'd be witnessing to my co-workers... instead a guy walks in and starts talking to me about how he's glad he's got a job.
12. Stephanie said the following at 12:45 PM on Feb 1:
Both of these articles spoke to me. Lately I have been wondering what I can do to reach out to others for Christ. I then realized that it is a lot more about using opportunites that are around me, rather than sitting around worrying about where or when the next opportunity will come from. Thanks!
13. Tami said the following at 1:02 PM on Feb 1:
I think this disconnect is partially resulting from what Dallas Willard has called "the great omission" - getting people to verbally assent to the question "Do you accept Jesus?" but not following through with discipleship. His books, along with those of James Boice and James Houston, are giving me a radical new perspective on what, exactly, being a disciple means -- and inevitably that is changing my perspective on evangelism. It's not so much "Here are 4 laws, do you agree?" as it is "Here is the Son of God, here is how to walk in His ways, will you take this on as THE truth, truth you are willing to die for, and THE way, the way you are willing to live by?" The work of salvation is Christ's but I have a duty to proclaim this message (and of course, live it out myself).
As we follow Christ our lives are changed... and the more we follow the more we should know *why* we believe, as we're building up that track record of faith. Not that we never have questions, but we view those questions as opportunities to learn, grow, and enter the sanctification process.
14. brx said the following at 12:23 PM on Feb 4:
Thanks SuzanneH and EricS;
I liked both articles - "Meeting God in the Saloon" because it's on my heart that a particular bar/grill/coffee-house that opened in our area could become a neat hub for an 'organic' kind of ministry.
And, "The Impatient Evangelist" is a great title (and article) as a reminder that when we start feeling impatient about not seeing an unbeliever change, we're probably ministering with our own agenda instead of genuine love. I've had great conversations ended suddenly by a Christian friend who joined and spoke only to make the unbeliever feel intimidated and inferior.
Keep up the grace and peace!
15. Sara said the following at 6:49 PM on Feb 4:
backslidden, I'm surprised more people haven't responded to you! Not many people come on this website explicitly asking to hear the gospel, and you'd think if they did, it wouldn't take people three days to say something, while they're responding to football and dating posts a mile a minute!
But it's no wonder so many Christians feel awkward and at the same time guilty about not evangelizing like they're told to: the approach that's encouraged is so impersonal and uses such weird language! People think they have to sell the gospel using their own personality--their own first impression, actually--as the advertisement! Instead of making friends with people or talking honestly with people like Jesus did, Christians are encouraged to 'shine their light' to strangers (instead of making the people not strangers anymore!) and temporarily appear more loving than they can really be expected to hold out for all 24 hours of the day:
To recycle some of the 'evangelese' used just in this article, for instance, tell me how you'd feel if:
-your friend called forwarding you a youtube link, "my desire to take [comedy] to the culture"
-your friend gave you the Heimlich maneuver and said, "My heart has cried out to help you in just this way!"
-you went with your family to get food at the food bank and the volunteer said "I'm so glad to get food to you, an unreached people living just next door!"
People who use language like that, whether to someone's face or not, are NOT leveling with people; they're distancing themselves and romanticizing someone they don't even know, and people can sense that.
16. backslidden said the following at 8:56 PM on Feb 4:
Wow Sara, thanks for the response! Your "examples" of evangelese totally made me smile :).
The conflict is like so: I would like a simple package with all the nuances that a complex religion brings, plus a dash of authenticity. This is indeed a high order, and I'm beginning to see it's not gonna happen. So, my best option is to just go to church and hope the answer comes to me. Not the conclusion I was looking for, certainly, but it's something.
17. Rachael said the following at 10:54 PM on Feb 4:
Sara,
Interesting post.
You wrote: "-your friend called forwarding you a youtube link, "my desire to take [comedy] to the culture"
--> Interesting. Even though I think it's good to think about potential connecting points w/ culture, and I'd like to think more about potential 'entry points' (for talking about matters of faith with ANYONE [including people who share the faith]), I don't think I'm as much into this culture kick that Christianity today seems to be in. That said, I'm sure a lot of good comes out of it and can be a way to bring people closer. God can work through anything, including people who seek to share God through culture.
You also said "you went with your family to get food at the food bank and the volunteer said "I'm so glad to get food to you, an unreached people living just next door!" "
-->I'm sure people don't tell people to the face that their unreached...but I get your point. You also mention, "People who use language like that, whether to someone's face or not, are NOT leveling with people; they're distancing themselves and romanticizing someone they don't even know, and people can sense that."
--> Do you know of any Christian books that talk of this issue? I'd like to learn more about the "us vs. them" mentality, and the idea of romanticizing certain groups of people but not others (ie. rich people are not romanticized but they can be just as 'unreached' as the homeless man on a street corner). I feel that I can romanticize particular 'groups' of people.
I want to love people ("reached" and "unreached") 24-7 (well, not quite 24 hours a day, but...), but am selfish so of course I fail in this regard.
I feel that I can romanticize certain groups of people..but is it romanticizing or is it having a passion/burden for certain social justice issues/groups of people?
One interesting thing. Shouldn't say too many details in "public", but in a recent outreach thing (which isn't sharing the gospel, but still it is a form of outreach), I noticed how a fellow 'outreacher' was getting on the 'potentially unreached' couples' level, seeking to learn from them, and I thought it was neat.
Anyway, I'd like to read more about these types of issues from a Christian perspective. Thanks for your post...
18. Leah said the following at 12:07 AM on Feb 5:
Anon Regular- I guess I can't say for sure why your friends haven't taken up the opportunities to "evanglise you". So I'm just going to throw out some random possibilities and talk about them and possibly be all wrong :P
Maybe it depends on what you specically want to know? Maybe the things you show interest in are the things they don't know much about; don't know how to explain. Or, perhaps they think you've been around Christian people enough that they can't explain it any better, or they think you'd reject a possible attempt on their behalf? I don't know.
Just out of curiosity- do you ask outright questions, or do you start conversations on particular subjects, or what? How do you get into situations where you feel you've provided a prime opportunity for them to evanglise you? (I'm not trying to imply *any* of this is your fault. I'm really just trying to gain an image of what types of situations/ conversations these might be).
I'll try and give the point of view of a Christian who has tried envangelising a nonChristian friend who has shown a bit of interest- but my story may be totally different to yours.
My friend (we'll call her K) has always known I'm a christian. She knows that if i'm not at a social event sunday night, it's coz I'm at church. She'd asked a few surface questions about Christianity. One day, I askedher if she wanted to read through the gospel of Mark with me to get a better understanding of who Jesus is and what he has to do with us.
We spent about a semester doing that, meeting up once a week. By the end of it she had a better idea of what Jesus had actually done on earth, why he came, and what that means for people these days. At the beginning of the next year, when I asked her if she wanted to read any more of the bible with me, she declined and said she wanted to "think" about what we'd already read some more.
She grew further away from her interest once one of our mutual friends developed multiple sclerosis- she didn't understand why "God would let this happen to a good person". I tried to explain to her that even when bad things happen to "good" people, God still has a plan in mind, and he was not ignoring our friend's pain.
She didn't really show much interest for about 18 months after that, but there have been opportunities for me to share that I have not taken, mainly because I convince myself that if she wants to know, she'll ask, or that it would be really random bringing Jesus up.
However, I am still able to talk to her about my experiences in the church etc, and that does lead her to ask questions about church/God, but not questions about Jesus or salvation. I consider this progress, and it gives me an opportunity to make her more familiar with my beliefs. For eg., my fiance and I attended different churches until very recently, when we've begun going back and forth between both churches in an effort to decide whih one to attend. K often asks if we've decided yet, and asks what it is that makes me like one church over another, and gives me an opportunity to explain certain theological differences and desirable attitudes. While it might not be explaining salvation to her, I'm hoping it demonstrates how Jesus affects my life.
You sound a bit different to K though, so that might not be wht your Christian friends are thinking at all. Maybe it will give you a bit of insight though?
19. Sara said the following at 1:16 PM on Feb 5:
OK, who ever reads them but I can't help recommending books...
backslidden,
your "simple package with all the nuances that a complex religion brings, plus a dash of authenticity" makes me think of Frederick Buechner's novel Godric. (Then again, everything does).
Or Philip Yancey's book "Soul Survivor", one of my favourites.
A lot of people would immediately suggest C.S. Lewis's "Mere Christianity". I say stay away, though: C.S. Lewis = band-box tidy, straight-shooting, elegantly simple.......flaws in reasoning.
(Or if I misread you, there's probably nothing much at all wrong with the the 'Christianity' entry on Wikipedia if that's what you mean by simple.)
Rachel,
Robert Coles' book "A Call to Service" deals with the internal struggling and weirdness that people trying to 'help' other people deal with. It's not explicitly about evangelizing, though he is a Christian (a child psychiatrist and professor; his books are really journalist-y). There's stuff in it about romanticizing the 'lost and needy', and dealing with really 'taboo' things like getting mad at people you're trying to help when they don't straighten out quick enough, and things like that.
20. Rachael said the following at 5:49 PM on Feb 5:
Sara,
Thanks. I would be curious to read someone's thoughts about the concepts of "romanticizing the 'lost and needy'" ...
I might not be 100% sure if I know what that concept even is, but somehow I can feel moved when I see pictures, video clips, and read about the horrible horrible situations that are happening in the world. I wonder if this is 'romanticizing' the issues or not, I guess. I think sometimes appeals to the senses can be productive if it produces a passion which leads to a fight for change, though. It is important to help those in need, locally and globally. But out loving shouldn't only be focused on those who we deem as 'needy'...all of us have some type of need and we should strive to love everyone.
21. Leah said the following at 3:50 AM on Feb 6:
Sara- I understand what you're saying about "Mere Christianity", but don't write it off. Reasoning is not necessarily what wins people to Christ. Like Anon Regular said, "I don't want to hear the same old attempts at logical proofs of the existence of God". Reasoning, logical proofs; this is what humans use to explain and convince others of other human belief. Faith in God is not merely a human belief. A person's heart must first be un-hardened for them to accept God; the Holy Spirit must work in them before they can accept the gospel. The Holy Spirit does not start doing this once the person becomes convinced from an intellectual discussion.
True, God may use an intellectual discussion to be that turning point. But it is not the only thing that people require to believe. Some people simply need to understand that Jesus loves them even though they sin. Some people need to be convinced that they do sin. Others simply need to see that Jesus is the source of real joy. There are so many things that can be the "click" moment. Logical reasoning is not the only thing that does that.
If winning a person to Christ was all about forming the perfect argument that they can't rebuff, then that would mean all people should be convinced by that one argument, right? But if that is the case, why is it that some people are completely convinced simply by reading the Bible, while others dismiss it as a fairy tale? It's because the Holy Spirit has worked in that person to convince them. That's the only thing that will ever convince people 100% of the time.
22. Sara said the following at 2:04 PM on Feb 6:
Rachel
Good points, well taken....I think maybe in criticizing romanticization I've thrown sympathy out, too, accidentally. Of course emotions and sympathy are better motivators than logic, often. (These things are hard to think about well!)
What *is* the relationship between sympathy and romanticizing?
I'm still thinking about the idea of 'the other'... Sympathy is more 'real', whereas romanticizing looks for ways to make someone's pain easier to deal with, say by focussing on the innocence or cuteness of a kid who's got AIDS instead thinking about their health, and what drugs are available to them, and so on... I don't know. When you generalize, like thinking of someone as "the poor shut-in next door", you sort of distance yourself and avoid "Anne, who could use a ride to the bank tomorrow", that kind of thing... ?
Leah:
I totally get your point, though I have to ask how far you would take an ends-justify-the-means thing? What if C.S. Lewis came back and said, "I've got another book in me that will be more heart-softening than Mere Christianity is, though this time I'll be bending the truth even more". Would you go for that? (I do think C.S. Lewis was innocent when he wrote his books, I'm just asking hypothetically.)
If it's OK to use bad logic because the evil of misrepresenting the truth is a lesser evil than letting them die unsaved, what about an extreme case: Totally hypothetically of course, let's say that torture was found to be effective at softening people's hearts. Fifteen minutes of torture is clearly better than an eternity in hell: so would you go for it? If you're OK with Mere Christianity because of lesser-evil reasoning, I don't see how you can stop short of anything that's worse than Hell.
23. Ted Slater said the following at 2:24 PM on Feb 6:
Sara -- Your last paragraph is bewildering. Nobody is saying that "it's OK to use bad logic because the evil of misrepresenting the truth is a lesser evil than letting them die unsaved."
What some people *are* saying is that good, solid logic is insufficient in many cases to lead people to Christ. It requires something ... more: love.
I'm puzzled by your cynicism and antipathy toward C.S. Lewis. He was a brilliant man who contributed a lot of good to Christendom, as well as to me personally. Have you been immersing yourself in Pullman's writings lately? ;-)
24. Eliza said the following at 2:37 PM on Feb 6:
I'm curious as to what C.S. Lewis's faulty logic is? That is one of my favorite books of all time, and I've read it several times. How could I have missed a blunder so obvious :)?
25. Rachael said the following at 5:20 PM on Feb 6:
Hey again Sara,
Not to belabor this issue, but it's interesting to me; I personally don't generally hear people explicitly talk about "us vs. them othering" [or whatever] in regard to ministry in Christian circles...
I wonder if you're/we're thinking that people who tend to regard certain "ministry" opportunities as more "romantic" might gravitate toward those "cute" or "photogenic" pictures of the "needy" more than taking care of those "boring" practical acts of service that are immediate, more invisible opportunities (which includes serving God when NO ONE is around) that are placed in our lives on a daily basis. It's much easier and often provides more of an "inner high" (?) to serve in more 'established', 'noticable' areas (in areas of social justice, for example, when there the senses are appealed to) than serving in the more ordinary mundane areas.
However, even our righteousnesses are as filthy rags. So even if sometimes/always we serve with wrong or partially wrong motives, I think it still can be better to attempt to serve than to not to serve at all just in case our motives are wrong.
(And in case others read this...I'm not trying to be cynical in this post. I'm just trying to think things through because I tend to be attracted to the "noticable" acts of service, but understand the need I have to strive to incorporate "invisible service" [even when it's just me and my cat...because even THEN God is there, and I should strive to honor Him] into my daily life... )
26. Sara said the following at 8:29 PM on Feb 6:
Who's Pullman? I'll google it.
This C.S. Lewis thing is worth a bit of time: Eliza or anyone, what's your favourite part(s) from Mere Christianity?
(I do think his literary criticism and the Narnia books are super good, for what it's worth)
Actually, let's have a C.S. Lewis thread, too!
27. Leah said the following at 11:54 PM on Feb 9:
Sara- I was not using an "end justifies the means" mentality at all. What I said had nothing to do with that. Although I have not read the book, from all accounts I've heard (bar yours), there is no faulty logic in Mere Christianity. However, what I was saying was that just because it might not make a water-proof argument does not mean it can't save lives. Because ultimately, it is not the argument of the book that saves people, it is the Holy Spirit working in them.
Is Lewis's theology wrong, or just not very good? (In your mind). Teaching wrong theology is wrong. Making an argument that might not be fool-proof isn't. If that's the only complaint you have against Mere Christianity, then I don't see the problem. You can't call something imperfect evil, otherwise you're evil too.
Ted was right. I never said it's ok to misrepresent the truth. I don't even know if Mere Christianity does that or not. You never said it misrepresented the truth, so I don't know why I'd assume that's what it did. You said it had faulty logic. I'm saying that even faulty (NB: Not wrong, or misrepresentative) logic can be used in saving people.
28. Sara said the following at 2:33 PM on Feb 15:
This is late, but Leah, I'm definitely not the only person. Here's a bunch of other fairly clearly-written bad reviews of Mere Christianity from Amazon.
http://www.amazon.com/review/product/0060652926/ref=cm_cr_pr_viewpnt_sr_1?%5Fencoding=UTF8&filterBy=addOneStar