Marriage Spoken Here
by
Steve Watters
on Jan 29, 2008 at 11:18 AM
A frequent comment on BoundlessLine is the question, "Why do you talk about marriage so much?" Initially, this question makes me wonder if people really don't know that Boundless is a service of Focus on the Family, a group that specializes in Christian marriage and parenting principles.
Our editorial mix for years now has been divided between 1) Christian worldview, 2) Christian community, 3) stewardship of time, money and calling, 4) purity and 5) vision and preparation for marriage and family.
Here are some of the reasons we included #5 in the mix:
- 85 to 90% of the general population eventually gets married. Some back their way into it, or as Leon Kass puts it, "they stumble on to the altar as if by accident." Once people marry, half of their pregnancies are unplanned. That means a lot of the families out there are made up of people who backed their way into the whole family enterprise. As with any major initiative in life, vision and preparation make an important difference.
- You can't talk effectively about the Biblical standards of absolute sexual purity among unmarried Christians without talking about how people can have their natural sexual drives fulfilled within marriage or within the high calling of lifelong celibacy.
- While we know that marriage will not meet all your needs, will not solve all your problems and will not remove all your loneliness, we still believe that Genesis 2 demonstrates that in His goodness, God specifically designed marriage to meet some needs, solve some problems and remove some loneliness (and that's putting it conservatively). As a result, we want to encourage singles in this honorable aspiration.
- We believe that too many men and women have been unable to experience the marriages they desire because of Christian subcultures that don't talk about it. These subcultures might have the intention of not wanting to frustrate those who haven't achieved their goal of marriage or of not pressuring someone into a bad marriage, but their silence has often left Christian singles without a compelling alternative to the complete dysfunction of our post-marriage culture.
We continue to appreciate your constructive feedback as we seek to be as accurate and Godly as possible in how we talk about marriage, but these are the reasons why we plan to keep the topic as an integral topic within our editorial mix.
1. Tami had the following to say on Jan 29 at 11:32 AM:
Someone brought up the dating patterns of young adults from broken homes in another post, and it reminded me -- I'd love some articles (or to be directed to some already-published articles) that deal with children of divorce. I know that many don't want to get married out of fear: they don't want to replicate what happened in their parents' marriage; don't want to go through it again themselves; they hold back because they are afraid they don't know how to "do marriage" well in light of a lack of modeling; or, they just don't see it as a good thing because they've only seen the bad.
There are a lot of good-hearted people out there who have been badly hurt and thus are afraid. I'd love to know how to encourage them.
I'd also like some insight into their frame of mind -- what, exactly, makes them fearful? What triggers their fearfulness? And how can I act in a way that both reflects Christ and dispels those fears (if, in fact, a guy from a divorced household is considering me as "marriage material," but just "isn't sure") -- so that I don't inadvertently do something that discourages him from pursuing me?
2. A man who wishes to remain anonymous this time had the following to say on Jan 29 at 12:50 PM:
I do have a concern that I hope can be addressed in a future article, though: What people could do if they find themselves starting to "take advice from Boundless too seriously" and find themselves being tempted to sin in a way that they've never expected.
I know that this is personally a problem with me because I, as a college student, chanced upon Boundless during the summer of 2007... when I was still three months underage relative to the intended audience (20-somethings). For me, the idea of romantic relationships has always been something that I take seriously; I have always held the idea that "I wouldn't date someone unless I would be interested in marrying her later." Thus, the idea of courting instead of dating, although seeming radical to some, actually made sense to me after reading the Boundless articles. Likewise, I readily took many other Boundless articles to heart after further thought.
The problem, however, is that I soon found myself getting into the "mate search" mindset when I feel that I'm not mature enough for a relationship yet. And in fact, that's true according to Boundless' "one-year rule" (i.e. don't date anyone unless you can be married in a year), since I know very well that it will be a while before I can lead a family financially, spiritually, etc (even though it's something that I've been continuously working on). But knowing that is no comfort, because now I would question myself a lot more in my dealings with the women in my on-campus Christian fellowship-- in other words, "Am I treating her as only a 'sister in Christ' or a potential spouse?" [For your information, my philosophy on time spent with people of the opposite sex who are potential romantic prospects is the same as what's mentioned in a previous Boundless article: minimize that, and any time spent with them should be in a group setting. So, no, I'm not spending too much time with any of them.]
Basically, the issue is that now I'm worried whether my philosophy on dating/courtship and marriage, although defensible on philosophical and theological grounds, is actually hurting myself (and possible the people around me) in the short run. This is essentially a problem since I'm one of those people who don't fit "gender stereotypes" well (e.g. I must confess that I, as a man, would sometimes fall into the trap of daydreaming "my life 10 years in the future with [insert her name here]").
3. Dolores had the following to say on Jan 29 at 1:22 PM:
how people can have their natural sexual drives fulfilled... within the high calling of lifelong celibacy
???
4. Justin had the following to say on Jan 29 at 1:45 PM:
Yes, well as I said before, I get why you promote marriage.
I just question your effectiveness.
It seems to be you'd be a lot more effective promoting the positive aspects of marriage rather than highlighting the negative attributes of singlehood.
As a single guy, I understand the perils of being alone. However, the only thing worse than being single is being in a bad marriage. And with a divorce rate over 50%, there are a lot of bad marriages out there.
5. Kellie had the following to say on Jan 29 at 2:02 PM:
I think the articles encouraging people to marry are wasted. It seems that most of the single readers here (and most of the single Christians I know) already desire to be married. Why not write posts with that already in mind?
6. Alexis had the following to say on Jan 29 at 2:22 PM:
I agree with Kellie. We are already in the marriage mindset (some us are). More focus on preparation for marriage would be nice.
7. Cliff had the following to say on Jan 29 at 2:47 PM:
Steve,
Amen to you and to the Brothers and Sisters that maintain this site. Marriage is definitely one of the least spoken topic in my peers and sadly in church setting.
And in most cases, the topic becomes a joke and a saturated with culture stereotypes that life is over once marriage set in.
Keep up the good work. There are a lot of brothers and sisters like me that think about marriage, looking in courtship and is looking for Christian advices.
8. Mike Theemling had the following to say on Jan 29 at 2:59 PM:
Dolores,
I would argue that someone struggles with having their "natural sexual drives fulfilled" then they aren't called to lifelong celebacy.
9. Lola had the following to say on Jan 29 at 3:19 PM:
Surely boundless articles, which encourage us to marry are not wasted since we/you are not yet married. These articles hope to encourage us to actually get married rather than forever remain in the mindset of getting married.
10. farmer Tom had the following to say on Jan 29 at 3:44 PM:
Three things,
when I feel that I'm not mature enough for a relationship yet
Why not? Are you equating financial security with maturity? Are you assuming that one must complete their formal education before they are mature enough for marriage?
I would suggest that you look for a marriage partner, and continue to pursue the other goals at the same time, it is possible to do more than one thing at once.
you'd be a lot more effective promoting the positive aspects of marriage
You're a glass half empty type of person, correct? If you as an adult, and (we assume) a follower of Jesus Christ, can not find some benefits of marriage on your own, without Boundless drawing a picture for you, and holding your hand, well, you're not ready for marriage.
We are already in the marriage mindset (some us are). More focus on preparation for marriage would be nice.
And what would this preparation look like? Have you been reading the Word, passages related to marriage? Why is it that so many in the Christian community need spoon fed things that are so simple to find and secure? The Bible deals with marriage in much detail. Go read it!
I would be willing to bet that what you really mean is something on the order of, How can we have it all, financial prosperity, career, family, a movie star husband, a perfect spiritual life and a yearly trip to Europe for vacation.
11. kaj had the following to say on Jan 29 at 3:44 PM:
To build upon what Tami wrote:
As I am a child of divorce, I am not afraid of marriage as I am marrying the wrong person, marrying at the wrong time, and marrying for the wrong reasons. All three reasons I learned from watching marriages of family members and acquaintances fall apart.
My own mother admitted when she married for the first time, that she was immature and had no idea what marriage entailed. And I feel a bit of pressure not to repeat the mistakes of divorced relatives' pasts.
12. Novagirl had the following to say on Jan 29 at 4:07 PM:
I love your focus on marriage, why it's important, and how to make it happen. I just wish you could get a wider audience among the Christian subcultures out there that are afraid to talk about it (e.g., my church's singles group).
Steve, would you possibly entertain the idea of writing a follow-up to Candice's book aimed at young men? I really think the young men need to hear these messages more than the women.
13. Jo had the following to say on Jan 29 at 4:13 PM:
I sympathise with the anonymous man. I too find myself torn over whether I feel Boundless helps or hinders me in my 'real life' - to be honest it's some and some. When I began reading the blog it opened me up to some valuable ideas, but now, I increasingly find it pulls my focus towards marriage to what I think is an unhelpful extent.
I want to be married, and I feel ready to begin a relationship that will lead towards marriage (although not too hastily thanks very much), yet here I am still single. I'm doing all I can to be proactive while not initiating, shunning 'prolonged adolescence' by looking after myself financially, holding down a steady job and advancing my education (but being careful not to elevate career above family in my priorities), making an effort to view the men around me as brothers while assessing their marriage potential using reason and scripture as well as my emotions, attempting to judge them on what they will later become rather than only what they are right now and praying in faith while relying on God to provide but not abdicating my own responsibility or buying into the 'one soulmate' fantasy, and continuing to serve God in the situation I find myself in without becoming bitter.
Does anyone else find it difficult to juggle all of that, or is it just me?
I wish it was just me, but unfortunately there are so many different philosophies that all the young people I know either hold to particular ideas very firmly, or are completely puzzled about the whole thing. Hence any kind of invitation or flirting or anything remotely resembling a show of interest gets interpreted in wildly different ways depending on the dating stance of the recipient, not to mention the rest of the church who are watching the whole debacle and wondering why the young people find it so hard to just pair off and start having children these days.
I've overstated the case a little, but I think not much. And I'm aware this has a slightly sarcastic tone (and possibly a bitter one), but all this over-analysing and over-intensifying is debilitating. I really think it is. It's information overload and everyone claims the monopoly on 'true' Biblical thought. Young people aren't getting married because for this generation, it's become an absolute minefield. We all end up just frozen to the spot because one wrong step and it'll all explode.
14. Nate had the following to say on Jan 29 at 4:26 PM:
Dolores,
To answer your question you can't. Read Mathew 19:11-12 and 1 Cor 7:9. If you have those desires and are not able to control them you need to get married.
15. keightie had the following to say on Jan 29 at 4:29 PM:
I agree with the man who wishes to remain anonymous...sometimes Boundless' extrabiblical standards when it comes to approaching the altar (although I know they are well-intentioned) lead people to think they are sinning when really they are just not following the advice of your columnists. I would encourage you to encourage readers to remember that even the best strategies offered here are only what worked for the person sharing them. I went through a time when I forgot that it was more important to trust God than to make sure I was following the advice of Boundless columnists. Legalism, anyone?
16. dana111 had the following to say on Jan 29 at 6:13 PM:
From a recent newspaper article:
"In 2004, the percentage of never-married black women 16 and older was 42.3 percent compared with 22.7 percent of white women, according to the Joint Center for Political and Economic Studies in Washington, D.C.
Also from the Joint Center for Political and Economic Studies:
Since 1950, there has been a substantial decrease in the marriage rates …. of both African American and white women. The trends have been most pronounced among African Americans. The percentage of African American women who are married declined from 62% to 36.1% between 1950 and 2000. Among white women, the corresponding decline was from 66% to 57.4%.
I am a black woman over the age of 16. I have never been married, I have no kids, I am attending college, and I really want to get married. I don't want anyone to wrongly assume that I am playing the "race card" out of spite, but, as a black woman, I am constantly bombarded with seemingly daunting odds, telling me that I will never get married, so I need to figure out how to live this life on my own. It is because of the lack of stable, loving marriages within my own racial and ethnic community that I continue to frequent Boundless.
There are many black single women who go to predominantly black churches who are told that their current state of singleness is a “gift” from God (apparently God has “gifted” black women more than He has white women). Because the rate of unplanned pregnancies in the black community are high, and because the majority of black children are born into homes without fathers, this super-spiritualized message of singleness being God's preferred plan for women implicitly okays single parenthood, encourages men to be passive, and perpetuates the stigma that black women are "strong" and don't need men to make it. In my own family, all but one of my female cousins has had children out of wedlock (while actively participating in church life) and only two of my female cousins are married.
I come to this website because the following quote from Steve's post rings true for me:
“We believe that too many men and women have been unable to experience the marriages they desire because of Christian subcultures that don't talk about it. These subcultures might have the intention of not wanting to frustrate those who haven't achieved their goal of marriage or of not pressuring someone into a bad marriage, but their silence has often left Christian singles without a compelling alternative to the complete dysfunction of our post-marriage culture.”
There needs to be a re-esteeming of marriage in the black community (of course this is true for other communities as well.) I come to Boundless to receive a “compelling alternative” to the lies that I have been fed about marriage and family. These lies have come both from the culture AND the church.
The singleness as a gift mantra has been so ingrained into black Christian women’s heads that they deny their hopes and dreams for an intact, biblical family, and pretend that they neither want nor need a husband. So they lie to themselves and to others, trying to appear Godly and content while secretly committing sin to quench their God given sexual desires, sexual desires that can and should be fulfilled only in marriage. I have seen beautiful Christian women in my community so desperate to have something that resembles marriage the way God intended that they are willing to compromise their morals in order to have someone. I have seen black women so hurt by the apparent lack of good men that they are willing to share the “love” and the beds of men with other women in order to feel desirable. These women need to have places where they can be honest about their desires for marriage. Also, they need places where they can read about how to pursue a Godly relationship that may lead to the fulfillment of the desires of their hearts.
I appreciate Boundless’s commentary on marriage and family because, personally, I think there is A LOT at stake when Christians stop esteeming marriage and start seeing it the same way the world sees it. It saddens me that when I come to Boundless, many of the comments left by frequenters of this blog sound eerily similar to the world’s view of marriage. The world glorifies independence, sexual promiscuity, having a “relationship” as opposed to having a committed marriage, immodesty, feminism, and the passivity and feminization of American males. The church is not supposed to follow the culture. We are supposed to live above it. I know some people are called to live celibate lives. I’m just saying that maybe for some of you who come to this blog, being single now doesn’t seem that bad because, statistically speaking, eventually you will get married. The consequences of extended singleness may not seem all that bad now. For others of us, the ramifications of a disesteeming of marriage and family have had, and will continue to have, dire consequences.
Continue to speak the truth, Boundless. I will continue to listen.
17. Rachael had the following to say on Jan 29 at 6:18 PM:
This is a nice, thoughtful post, and some interesting responses. I like how Boundless articles and blog posts are on a mix of topics. I've really enjoyed reading it these past few months! Thank you.
18. Stephanie had the following to say on Jan 29 at 6:24 PM:
I understand that a lot of what Boundless writes is intended to be in response to the anti-marriage sentiment that is prevalent amongst some young people. I know that marriage is definitely a good thing and the direction most people's lives will take, but let's not forget that marriage is not for everyone. Jesus and Paul seemed to treat singleness for the sake of the kingdom with special honor, and that should be respected. I feel that some of the articles might be misinterpreted as making marriage seem like the ultimate good, whereas we all know that our friendship with Jesus Christ is the ultimate good, accompanied with a love for people. Let's not forget that celibacy is a very biblical option, and we should give it at least the same respect that we do marriage.
19. J. had the following to say on Jan 29 at 6:24 PM:
I think Focus on the Family would be wise to create a separate Web site for singles who are thirtysomething and beyond. Let's face it: There are a LOT of us. A lot of older singles post comments on Boundless, and overall there seems to be a big difference between the attitude many twentysomethings have ("My singleness is a gift, and God will provide a husband or wife for me when he sees fit") and that of the 30+ crowd ("Singleness is frustrating!"). Oftentimes older singles face different challenges: many more years of waiting to have sex (hopefully); many more years without the love of spouses and children; struggles with friendships due to having fewer single friends and losing touch with married friends (usually caused by married friends' failing to hold up their end of the friendship bargain, especially when kids come into the picture); and dealing with even nosier people concerning matters such as whether we're married, when we'll get married, why we aren't married, etc. (why is it so hard for people to just look at ring fingers???). It would be great have Boundless-like articles meant specifically for older singles.
20. a sassy sister had the following to say on Jan 29 at 7:27 PM:
dana111:
I too, am an African American single woman. But I have not given up hope when it comes to marriage. While I understand the obstacles you and I face regarding singleness, we must understand that our single state is not a disease, or some ghastly debilitating disorder. Our big problem is when we become so worried about our obstacles and unfulfilled desires that we have taken the focus off God and His sovereignty and on ourselves, not realizing we are subconsciously trying to tell God what our life should look like and how it's going to go. While I am not advocating passivity at all (God's Word does not endorse laziness, sloth, or inaction), I do believe that there is a difference between being diligent and acting on what you know and being zealous and making presumptions and choices based on your own impatience and ambition.
There is a difference between acknowledging that there is a problem and the manner in which it is addressed. I am not saying to stuff or deny your desires for marriage or family. But I am saying is that what we must get out of this "isolationist" mentality when it comes to not only our singleness, but also dealing with our struggles (i.e. wallowing in self-pity about our state and not doing what God has instructed us in this time at this very moment with the gifts He has given us).
It seems that many of these posts only make it seem more obvious how little there is of real "community" in the body of Christ and their focus on unity IN CHRIST---regardless of what color you are, how old you are, what race, sex, or marital state. While I understand the need for different ministries in the body of Christ, we must remember that is about glorifying God first. Too many times I see churches have so many ministries, but the people who benefit from them have no connection with each other. Trying to put marriage or singleness in a rank or order category is divisive and seems to have some underlying security issues(i.e. I want to feel important or better, wanting to stand out among everyone). It only helps to further create "cliques" in the body and expand the gaps in relationships in the body of Christ.
We are the BODY OF CHRIST, and yet I see the foot trying to address its fungus without using the hands or talking to the Head(which is Christ).
I see it all the time---young marrieds hang in their group, twentysomethings in another, and the list goes on and on.
I have some questions for you:
Do you complain about your single state and do the same thing over and over again in regards to your struggle(i.e. complain about it with your girlfriends, go to church, talk to the same people, do the same thing), or are you in prayer about your struggle to God and then moving forward to grow as a person(i.e. praying and finding mentors in all respective areas of your life, pursuing your interests and fellowship with saints outside of your church?)
Are you looking at the statistics and thinking, there are no men left, based on what you SEE out there instead of trusting God's Word over your feelings of frustration and despair?
21. The man who still wishes to remain anonymous had the following to say on Jan 29 at 8:10 PM:
Re: farmer Tom
==============================
>>when I feel that I'm not mature enough for a relationship yet
Why not? Are you equating financial security with maturity? Are you assuming that one must complete their formal education before they are mature enough for marriage?
==============================
Regarding your first question: the short answer is no. In fact, I can honestly say that financial security isn't a big issue for me, provided that I'm supporting only myself; I wouldn't mind about living a lifestyle of sacrifice (e.g. serving for a non-profit organization rather than taking a job that pays more) if that's what the Lord has called me to do. But when the issue of marriage enters the picture, I would certainly not expect my future wife and children to be willing to make the same amount of sacrifice in terms of lifestyle for a higher cause. Thus, part of me would prefer to wait until my career plans are settled before starting a relationship, for the sake of my future family. [Then again, I would stress that it's a preference, not something that's absolutely necessary.]
As for the second question, it's again a no, although it would be a moot point considering that I only have three more semesters of undergraduate education remaining (and I would not expect a relationship to develop so quickly anyway when there are currently no prospects).
==============================
I would suggest that you look for a marriage partner, and continue to pursue the other goals at the same time, it is possible to do more than one thing at once.
==============================
Well, that's what I've been trying to do (if only somewhat passively to prevent the possibility of sending the wrong message). In fact, I will become an official member a local church very soon; the main idea of joining the church was that I would still be a part of a Christian community after graduating.
==> Notice that I listed "being in a Christian community" as the prime motive-- the possibility of meeting my future spouse through my Christian community is a secondary objective at best. In fact, I have trouble justifying the idea of being a part of a specific Christian community with the main intention of finding a future spouse when I'm currently only 20 years old. If anything, I'm sensing a stigma against being so intentional about marriage so early. Besides, I personally know several Christian friends who also struggle with their current state of singleness, and some of them are already in the mid-20s. It almost seems wrong to me that I, the younger one, not them, should be the one who's being far more intentional in the "mate search" process.
==> Just imagine how many "good Christian women" I could scare away if I join a Bible study or singles' group (if available) at my church with THIS kind of attitude and somehow mess up on the initial "Determine The Relationship" attempt (or worse, act inappropriately, e.g. flirt, even before the DTR). And if the word gets out, one try is all it would take to ruin my reputation. This is exactly why I would prefer BY FAR to become more "mature," at least emotionally and mentally, before even considering any relationship-- too much could be at stake.
Finally, I also see a 2nd Commandment issue here-- if I'm too aggressive about pursuing marriage instead of waiting for God's timing, wouldn't I essentially be turning my future into an idol? [This is a real issue for me because I can tell from experience that even having feelings for someone could become a huge distraction at times.]
Anyway, thanks for taking your time to reply.
22. Kyle had the following to say on Jan 29 at 8:35 PM:
Intriguing comments all around. Whenever this issue comes to mind, I think of Psalm 46:10, "Be still, and know that I am God..." and I am reminded that I must work towards that contented state of being that Paul extolled in his letters to the Philippians. Of course, being still and at peace does not mean being inactive. Yet, I often think about how to approach the realm of courtship and marriage as a young, unmarried pastor. Given my position and level of exposure, I am very careful about any forays into dating. In fact, it can be difficult at times to meet Christian women (I know, sounds crazy coming from a pastor) who are spiritually mature and seeking marriage and family growth. A number of women I have met can't get with the idea of marrying a minister, thinking that men of the cloth are mere charmers and philanderers. Or, they don't have the same approach to spiritual self-discipline as I do. Certainly I'm not perfect by any stretch of the imagination, but I am adamant about keeping gray areas out of my spiritual life, and I don't find the casual carnality that creeps into many modern Christian perspectives attractive. Also, being in grad school, just about every woman I know is career-oriented above everything else, with marriage and children being inconveniences that will come along when everything else is in full swing. One would think there are myriad reasons to just give up and catch whoever floats past. Even so, I don't doubt God's hand in our lives, and I truly believe all things will work together for good provided we continually seek Him above our desires. If I chase after Him, I believe I'll find the woman I seek, because she'll be chasing Him, too.
23. Sarah had the following to say on Jan 29 at 8:36 PM:
I would really appreciate some articles about being a light for Christ in the workplace. Just ONE blog please about how I can be a good witness for Christ in the workplace without it turning into a debate on women and careers. Every one of the articles about women and careers seems to turn into a debate on single vs. married.
24. farmer Tom had the following to say on Jan 29 at 10:02 PM:
Kyle,
Want to meet an attractive red-head Bible college graduate, MK, who got her degree in Elementry Ed so she can homeschool her children someday? Her hearts desire is to find a man in ministry to serve the Lord with.
She's related to me and currently doing her student teaching to complete her degree.
She is absolutely top notch spiritually. She would be impressed with this statement.
Or, they don't have the same approach to spiritual self-discipline as I do. Certainly I'm not perfect by any stretch of the imagination, but I am adamant about keeping gray areas out of my spiritual life, and I don't find the casual carnality that creeps into many modern Christian perspectives attractive.
I like playing matchmaker, I'd be glad to make some arrangements.
25. BDB had the following to say on Jan 30 at 12:58 AM:
Jo wrote:
>>Hence any kind of invitation or flirting or anything remotely resembling a show of interest gets interpreted in wildly different ways depending on the dating stance of the recipient, <<
You are so right!
Here's some things I've been tempted to say:
"So, are we allowed to have lunch, or do I have to have lunch with your dad instead?"
With some older person playing matchmaker, give them a confused look and ask, "So, you believe in dating?"
"No, just because I'm not married it doesn't mean I'm required to have a 2-door car. Or a leather jacket. Or a Wii."
"When you say, 'It didn't work out,' how are you measuring that?"
"So, what you're saying is that it's FOTF's policy that if you don't meet someone in college, you're outside God's will?"
"How come, in the same week, a Christian woman declines my lunch invitation, and a non-Christian woman asks me to lunch? Why is it the Christians telling me to 'have more fun?'"
But if I said any of that out loud, I'd just get into trouble...
26. kaj had the following to say on Jan 30 at 6:01 AM:
Farmer Tom is right in that the Bible has plenty of advice on how to prepare for marriage, but there are topics related to marriage that the Bible is absolutely silent on in regards to everyday life.
While the Bible gives many principles and examples of righteous (and unrighteous) for marriage, anyone "preparing for marriage" still needs help with dealing with things in our 21st century culture that the Bible gives no guidance on.
For instance, while the Bible talks about avoiding debt, it does not give advice on how to buy a house. The Bible gives no advice on car maintenance (they only had chariots back then!). There is nothing in the Bible that gives advice on how to juggle spending time during the holidays with in-laws who live in two states hundreds of miles apart.
And while we can learn many things from the "long distance love" story of Isaac and Rebekah, there's hardly any advice about Internet dating within the pages of Scripture. For example, if two people from two different nations met online and decided to get married, one can find all kinds of advice in the Bible about purity, leadership/submission, and how Jesus treated people, but one cannot go to the Bible to get advice on how to navigate the process of immigration and visa acquisition.
27. Ariana had the following to say on Jan 30 at 6:16 AM:
I really enjoy the Line. However sometimes I'm concerned that the reader comments reflect a selection bias in the readership, and paint a more discouraging picture of the difficulties that is really the case. As Steve said in the original post, the great majority of Americans do get married at some point in their lives. But, because mostly unmarried people read and post on the blog it, many of the posts are complaints about how impossible it is to find a mate, or how the odds are slim to none. Reading all these comments can make it seem as if the problem is greater than it actually is. I would love it if more married people like farmer Tom would post and provide encouragement, since I'm sure that finding a mate not as imossible as so many of the comments make it seem.
28. Justin had the following to say on Jan 30 at 7:22 AM:
If you as an adult, and (we assume) a follower of Jesus Christ, can not find some benefits of marriage on your own, without Boundless drawing a picture for you, and holding your hand, well, you're not ready for marriage.
Well said. For once, I agree with you. And in the future, could you please refrain from the subtle ad hominem attacks?
29. dana111 had the following to say on Jan 30 at 7:24 AM:
To a sassy sister-
No, I do not complain about being single because I am hopeful and I do strive to trust in God. My post really wasn't about me per se (well, the being single part is about me), it was about a complete and total twisted mindset I have witness in certain churches concerning the large amount of single women who long for marriage but are treated like they are "diseased" because they are honest about their desires for Godly companionship. I am not deseperate for marriage. I just want it someday, and I feel as though current popular "theology" makes the desire for marriage equal with being desperate and discontented in one's state. I have hope for marriage, and yes, at times I feel as though there is a lack of suitable "prospects" for single women of all races and ages. And, the women I have met and refer to in my post are not living in any sort of isolationist mentality. They are active in Church, some times too active (meaning that they use their working at church and attending each and every service as a way to quench their loneliness and a way to seem more spiritual than others, both which, in my opinion, are bad reasons to seek fellowship.) Actually, I am guilty of having a isolationist mindset. After a night of praying and crying out to God about my loneliness, He convicted me about my lack of active church service. I admitted to not submitting to His will because I did not want to participate in His Body!
I don't think that singleness is treated like a disease in black churches. I think that women are marginalized and chastised for actually voicing a desire to marry well. The actual desire for marriage is treated like a disease in my opinion, NOT being single. Neither are diseases, but, for me, I prefer marriage over singleness. I am thankful that I can give my desires to a God who loves me and does not condemn me for coming with Him with the desires of my heart.
30. dana111 had the following to say on Jan 30 at 7:40 AM:
Also to a sassy sister:
From your post:
"Are you looking at the statistics and thinking, there are no men left, based on what you SEE out there instead of trusting God's Word over your feelings of frustration and despair?"
I hope you are not equating my frustration with what I view as wrong theology as "desperation." I don't think I sound desparate at all, actually. Maybe you could explain to me my position of "frustration and despair??"
31. obewan had the following to say on Jan 30 at 8:16 AM:
J wrote (and I agree):
“I think Focus on the Family would be wise to create a separate Web site for singles who are thirty something and beyond. Let's face it: There are a LOT of us. A lot of older singles post comments on Boundless, and overall there seems to be a big difference between the attitude many twentysomethings have…”
The blog article stated: “…85 to 90% of the general population eventually gets married.”
Thank you J for bringing up an excellent point. As an over age 30 single, I have seen the full gamut of discrimination against older singles by many Christian ministries. To be blunt, it may be due to an avoidance of all the dirty diapers associated with people who have either been unable to find a spouse or who have been divorced.
Reality says, that the over age 30 singles group may be the biggest demographic target for ministry to singles. I know it is at my own church because the over age 30 group is the biggest group. The church I attended before this one had a divorce recovery ministry that ran every 8 weeks and they grew to have an over age 30 singles Sunday school class with over 600 people. (They had 5000 local people on the mailing list for their monthy newsletter.)
Yes, 85-90% of people may get married, but we all hear the statistic that 50% of marriages end in divorce. One survey found that:
“….only 38 percent of couples in America describe themselves as "happily married."
http://www.legalzoom.com/articles/article_content/article13573.html
What can we do? We should encourage more articles and outreach ministries that deal with divorce recovery. If there is Biblical grounds for divorce and remarriage, than we should have articles on blended families etc…
I think ministries that target “younger singles” have a tendency to avoid the divorce topic because they do not want to scare those who have not yet found their “one and only”. I know that when I was younger, I myself did not like to meet divorced people in our singles group.
Now that I am older, I face the situation where literally 90% of the men and women in our church singles group are divorced. Many of them are now my close friends and after hearing their stories I am now grateful for my own singleness and for what they have been able to teach me. Over and over again they have told me that it is better to be single than to be unhappily married.
We should do all we can in our publishing and ministry efforts to prevent divorce from happening in the first place. If and when it does happen, we should do all we can to help rebuild broken lives.
32. a sassy sister had the following to say on Jan 30 at 9:31 AM:
I agree that your desire for marriage is not wrong. I do understand your frustration. But what frustrates me is that marriage and singleness is pitted against each other. If you want to get married, that desire isn't wrong. But what's wrong is when that desire is something that constantly preoccupies our time and it crowds out our relationship with God and is put above seeking him and his kingdom (i.e. everything that I do in my life is focused on getting a husband and starting a family, and not out of a basis of pleasing God and loving Him with all of my heart. I've seen too many women like this in church---because they're not in church to grow in their relationship with the Lord and with other believers(regardless of marital status or age) they're there to get a husband, instead of going hard after God.
I've also seen too many women who put ALL their worth, ultimate fulfillment/satisfaction, identity, and value as women in marriage and motherhood instead of Christ. Marriage and children are not bad at all. But being a wife and a mother IN ITSELF is not my source of joy and purpose--God is the source for that. That is not to say that wanting marriage and children is wrong---just that sometimes we place relationships and responsibilities in positions in our hearts they were never supposed to have(i.e. thinking that marriage and children is the end goal, the "finish line", when it is glorify God.)
33. Childless single woman had the following to say on Jan 30 at 11:47 PM:
a sassy sister: You are pitting marriage against God, and creating a false dilemma. There is a right time to focus on getting married as a means of pleasing God. It is not an either/or proposition. I hope people are sensible enough to ignore your rantings.
34. obewan had the following to say on Jan 31 at 10:05 AM:
Childless single woman:
I don't hear Sassy Sister saying marriage is an either or situation. I hear her saying we should not set up marriage as an idol. I know from the time I was 25 until I was over 30 I struggled with that. I would go to Church and be obsessed with thinking about potential mates - so much that I had a hard time concentrating on the sermons. The other married people only made things worse with comments like: "Any day now you will meet your wife..." We had little encouragement relative to singleness being a Godly lifestyle and few if any sermons which gave reference to singles in the Bible and how they served God.
35. a sassy sister had the following to say on Jan 31 at 12:13 PM:
csw,
I never said that preparing for marriage and having a family wasn't part of glorifying God; I just don't believe IT'S THE ONLY WAY TO TRULY GLORIFY HIM. I simply believe that marriage and family is not the WHOLE POINT. GLORIFYING GOD is the whole point, and marriage and family serve as paths in life that serve that purpose, BUT ARE NOT THE ONLY ONES that can be taken in that purpose of glorifying God. If that was really the case, then the examples of singles in the Bible that faithfully served God would be out of order in the totality of Scripture.
The issue is the development of maturity and responsibility---not in the context of trying to marry a man/woman and make babies, but in the purpose and mindset of being a good steward of the gifts, talents, and opportunities that God has given us. I never pitted marriage against God; I just put in perspective of what the chief end of mankind is: to glorify God and not to solely gratify my own desires. There is a difference between doing the right thing for the wrong motives, just as there is a difference between planning and preparing for your future and focusing on the planning and preparing so much that it becomes your life.
and btw, the whole idea of me trying to pit marriage against God is ludicrous--which is what I was trying to point to when it comes to this whole singleness vs. marriage battle(which isn't doing much to help our testimony as believers, I must say). Marrieds and singles should not be attacking each other.
36. Stephanie had the following to say on Jan 31 at 2:13 PM:
Childless Single Woman:
I don't think that Sassy Sister is putting marriage against God. Since marriage is NOT God, then it is not necessarily a false dilemma. The only desire that I believe is truly free from the *potential* for distracting us from God is the desire to be with God and the desire for others to be with him.
Here's an example: I'm a pretty creative person with a vivid imagination and I LOVE to write fiction. When I write I get so engrossed in my little world that the hours just fly by. My writing and my creativity is -- just like marriage -- a gift from God, and also -- like marriage -- a way of worshipping him. I'm thankful for my gift. At the same time, sometimes I get so satisfied escaping from reality through my imagination that I can become spiritually lazy: e.g., I don't feel like praying or spending time with God because I am having too much fun writing.
That isn't to say that I have to "choose" between my writing and God, just that when I feel it becoming god to me and distracting me from him, I have to take a little break from it in order to focus on what's really important. It doesn't make it wrong or mean that I should feel guilty about my desire to write, just that I need to keep God as God and everything else not.
The same way with marriage, I think. I think we all know what things become a distraction from and/or more important to us that spending time with God and praying for ourselves and others. For me, it's my writing and not marriage, but for some people, it can be.
37. Childless single woman had the following to say on Feb 1 at 10:36 AM:
Okay, so here we have marriage and the raising of a family likened to a creative writing hobby; we have circumstantial singleness again confused with a rare gifting to remain celibate and renounce marriage for Kingdom reasons that are incompatible with a spouse and family; and we are reminded by “a sassy sister” that we should be good stewards of just about everything apart from, apparently, our fertility.
The only encouraging thing about these last few comments is that Obewan’s church does not encourage mere "singleness" as “a Godly lifestyle”!
As this is Steve Watters’ post, I would be interested to know what he thinks?
38. Stephanie had the following to say on Feb 1 at 11:45 AM:
Childless single woman --
I guess I don't see what was so laughable about my analogy? :-/ Maybe you could help me to understand ...
39. obewan had the following to say on Feb 1 at 11:58 AM:
Childless single woman had the following to say on Feb 1 at 10:36 AM:
“We have circumstantial singleness again confused with a rare gifting to remain celibate and renounce marriage for Kingdom reasons that are incompatible with a spouse and family;”
I don’t see single people serving the Kingdom as being a “rare giftedness”. Some statistics say that more than 50% of women over age 40 are single. I can see how that would be true if the divorce rate is 50% and some small fraction does not get married in the first place.
At my (former) church of which CSW is thankful because it (in her words) “does not encourage mere "singleness" as “a Godly lifestyle”…”, there were many many divorced single women over the age of 30. Were they single because of circumstance? YES! Were they RARE? NO WAY! Did they serve the Kingdom? YES! Many of them chose to not re-marry to honor their convictions about Biblical divorce. Many of them did not become Christian until after their divorce. How did they serve the Kingdom? Through ministry to other singles and ESPECIALLY divorced people. That is at least one example of how I see someone not involved in “full time Christian service” living singleness as a Godly lifestyle.
The same should be true for never married singles. In the Bible we have the teaching on the priesthood of individual believers. We are ALL called to serve the church. Not just those people who are called to full time Christian service. CSW did not address the other part of my comment about my struggle with setting up the “desire to be married” as an idol. Why is it “negative” to say that God should come first? I have been involved in Christian singles ministries for nearly 20 years now, and have seen far too many where there is an over emphasis on dating and the pursuit of marriages at the expense of Kingdom issues with a higher calling.
40. John had the following to say on Feb 1 at 1:31 PM:
Upon reflection, I wonder whether the editors' constant harping upon marriage isn't misleading and, in fact, downright cruel for some people.
There are some who may not be in a position to marry, at the present or ever. To inflame the desire for a spouse may be inviting those people to lust after what God, in His providence, may or may not choose to make available for them.
Is it not far better to call Christians (of every age and marital status) to focus on Heaven, on the Kingdom of God and on Jesus and His coming? Without attempting to start a discussion on eschatology and prophecy, I believe that His coming may be sooner than we think. (Just watch the news for a while and read Matthew 24.)
Paul:
Art thou bound unto a wife? seek not to be loosed. Art thou loosed from a wife? seek not a wife.
But this I say, brethren, the time is short: it remaineth, that both they that have wives be as though they had none;
... for the fashion of this world passeth away.
I Corinthians 7: 27, 29, 31b.
41. k. had the following to say on Feb 1 at 2:50 PM:
CSW - sassy sister is "ranting"? Oh please. On the contrary, she's doing a pretty good job of explaining and defending her viewpoint.
Also, Stephanie's example is a legitimate one. Don't focus so much on the topic she chose that you completely overlook the substance. The point that she's making is valid.
42. Jennifer had the following to say on Feb 1 at 3:59 PM:
About CSW's very correct assessment about these posts that pit marriage and God against each other:
When someone expresses frustration with all the wrong theology directed at singles (and there's A LOT of it), as dana111 rightly did, and are immediately questioned on suspicions as to whether or not they are spending more time "complaining" or "praying", or making marriage an idol...well, if that isn't pitting the desire for marriage against the desire to please God, then I don't know what is.
And why is it that when anyone starts to point out the obvious truth about the shortage of men in our churches, they are automatically punished with a "whoa ye of little faith" lecture? Instead of dismissing these observations with the usual knee-jerk "shut up and pray" or worse yet: "pay no attention", we should be gladly receiving them compassion, validation and eventual problem solving.
The shortage of men in our churches is a fact-- and so are the surplus women who are left without husbands, and so is the grief they feel when they must face the losses that go along with that (such as never being able to have children). "J" said something earlier about the situation being far different for 30-somethings than for those in their 20's, who are going on their youthful hubris, calling singleness a gift (as if doing so will result in being divinely rewarded with a spouse, I suspect). What I see in many of these posts is any expression of grief gets equated with things like "desperation" and lack of faith. It's like don't feel, don't talk. Having any kind of feelings means that you lack faith, talking about them is a betrayal to the church and to God himself.
Can't we have a conversation about these things without it automatically reverting into a "contentment lecture"?
I agree with Candice Watter's declaration that the notion of singles "making God into an idol" is blown way out of proportion.
Oh, and by the way, being distracted during a sermon with thoughts of sex and love is hardly the sign of idolatry -- everyone, including married people, does that from time to time!
Can we be human here, please?
43. Jennifer had the following to say on Feb 1 at 4:40 PM:
Obewan,
"I don’t see single people serving the Kingdom as being a “rare giftedness”. Some statistics say that more than 50% of women over age 40 are single. I can see how that would be true if the divorce rate is 50% and some small fraction does not get married in the first place."
I think you missed CSW's point. She is trying to say that people who are single by circumstance (ie. the statistics you quote), are not the same as those rare "gifted" singles who CHOOSE to be single for the sake of the kingdom -- see Matthew 19:12.
Yes, those who are single by circumstance and not by choice can and should serve God, but it's extremely important that you see the distinctions between these two groups. It is very disturbing to be involuntarily single and be told you have the "gift of singleness" or "gift of celibacy", as if you "should" be just as happy to be a nun as a wife, if that's what God wants you to be.
As I mentioned in my last post, GRIEF IS A REALITY for those who wanted to marry but didn't get to. And for women, it comes on gradually as you get on in years and have to come to terms with the fact that you're never going to have children, which is pretty devastating for most. In the church, we are not very good at supporting single women through this grief, because we are too quick to blame that feeling on their supposed "lack of faith", "not putting God first", or "making marriage an idol", even though many of them have been good servants in our church communities.
And yet the message to "put God first", as you rightly say, something we should all do, seems to get directed to singles more, especially if they express any feelings of any kind about their situation. It's like a knee jerk reaction. Lonely? You're making marriage an idol. Anxious that you're running out of time? Wait on the Lord, after all, He'll be here soon. Grieving the family you never got to have? Well, God should come first, anyways. Hear how that sounds?
That's why it's negative. It's thoughtless and trite and totally overdone. And never would a couple dealing with infertility be patronized in this way.
44. Jo had the following to say on Feb 2 at 5:28 AM:
John:
AMEN.
45. shanka had the following to say on Feb 2 at 8:25 AM:
It's so funny how we just seem to argue for the sake of argument. It doesn't appear that the points made are contradictory; rather people are getting bogged down with semantics. What is clear is this: no, it's not okay to say "oh you're single right now and you'll never marry even though that is your desire; have more faith and delight yourself in the Lord." That's like rubbing salt in a wound to use spiritual-sounding words to "encourage." God has declared marriage to be good and holy, and it is good to desire it. If you're single now and you desire marriage, don't embrace that whole "well praise the Lord for my singleness" attitude that is prevelant; not the actual humble one that says, "my desire is for marriage, and right now is not the time, yet I praise my Lord through all circumstances." You know which attitude I'm talking about. That false humility one that you have when you get into a car accident and say "Praise the Lord for that car accident! He must have good plans for that!" God doesn't want us to give thanks *for* bad things rather *in* bad things, because it is He who works all things out for the good of those who love Him. At the same time, there is something to be said of making marriage an idol. The "I won't ever be happy unless I marry" deal. You're setting yourself up for failure, because even if you end up married, it probably won't live up to your expectations.
It really just comes down to having the right perspective. The chief end of this life is to know God. He, in His undeserved mercy, has made so many aspects of this life good and pleasing for our sakes, and He desires to give us good things. We are to delight ourselves in Him, laugh in Him, bring our disappointments and sorrows to Him, heck, even be angry with Him (trust me; He can surely handle it!). But, moreover, to have trust in Him that He knows exactly what He's doing and just to rest in that fact. Oh, the mighty God of the universe in whom I trust has got things taken care of and under control! What a way to live each day!