Boundless Line: I Don't Want To Grow Up

I Don't Want To Grow Up
by Denise Morris on Dec 18, 2007 at 11:12 AM

Apparently, growing up is out of style. (And in case you haven't gotten the memo, so are mullets.)

A recent article highlights a study about adulthood published in the December issue of Journal of Family Psychology. In the study, 18-25-year-olds and their parents agreed that adulthood had not yet come. Most of these young people are just as irresponsible as they were in high school, and now that they're in college and away from home, they have more opportunity to get away with it. Only 16 percent of 18-25-year-olds considered themselves adults, which was just fine with them. They know that adulthood requires responsibility, and they're just not there yet:

Most kids agreed with parents that one must take responsibility for one's actions and have good emotional control to be considered an adult. But parents were far more likely than students to see not becoming drunk and driving safely as vital to adulthood.

Umm, right.

Tim Challies recently blogged about a new book that recognizes this issue as well. The Death of the Grown-Up by Diana West highlights the fact that people just aren't growing up (sticking with jobs, buying houses, getting married, having children) until their late 20s or early 30s. West posits that adolescence reaches well into what used to be considered adulthood. We created the "teenage years" and now that has extended into our 20s as well.

Adulthood and maturity are no longer noble things to strive for. Instead everyone wishes to be young again. It's young people who are admired -- the wisdom that comes with age is somewhat scorned:

After the idea of adolescence became popular, it took only a generation before popular culture, and particularly the medium of television, began to portray age as "square" and youth as "hip." The dignity of age was replaced with disgust. Where children used to orbit around their parents, today the opposite is true. Parents orbit around their children, "abdicating their rights and privileges by deferring to the convenience and entertainment of the young." No wonder, then, that people wish to avoid adulthood.

This "failure to launch" concerns me because I really think it will affect my generation in the long run. I see lots of college students and even my 20-something peers who are just kind of floating through life. Many people aren't reaching their goals (if they even have any), they aren't moving on, they just aren't doing much of anything -- besides entertaining themselves. I am a part of this generation as well, and I see myself having a lot of fun, but not always being challenged to grow toward the lifestyle that Christ has called me to. Ah, but seeking to be more like Christ involves being responsible to something, and responsibility is just for adults, right?

So, what do you all think? Do you see this as a problem in our generation? If not, why not? If so, what do you think can be done to begin to fix it?

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Comments

1. Emily Shepherd had the following to say on Dec 18 at 12:04 PM:

This is a huge problem in our generation! I'm about to turn 25 and have been married for about 9 months, and while before getting married I felt more "grown-up" than some of my friends because of some other responsibilities I'd had to take on that friends didn't (like not having a car until I was out of school and had a full-time job to be able to pay for it myself), marriage has revealed that all along I was still a little girl. Marriage (and children, to be sure!) force you to get outside of yourself and take the hard road, or your marriage will not survive. It is sink or swim, do or die. And I think as a generation, we are afraid of that challenge and seek to prolong taking it on as long as possible.

One of the deep roots of this issue is the shift, as you say, from "children orbiting their parents to parents orbiting their children." It is rare to see a family that puts the parents' marriage first, rather than the children's lives and activities -- and yet, time and time again people find that the best thing you can do for your kids' lives is to lead by example with a loving, healthy relationship between you and your spouse. As long as children are the focus of a family (no pun inteded, Dr. Dobson! :)), rules and princples will not be enforced, and children will not be required to grow up. Since in general people do not want to grow up anymore, they have to be forced to by their circumstances -- and that is a very painful process.

2. Rachael had the following to say on Dec 18 at 12:14 PM:

My guess that seeking entertainment more than spiritual maturity is not only a problem for the 20-something generation...for this problem perhaps the remedy is Christ. Reading Scripture, friendship with others who esteem the Bible highly and strive for holiness, outreach, socializing with people from various social circles...I think these things might help solve the problem. As far as never growing up -- I think getting married and having families would help with that process. I think single people who live alone often don't have to worry about and take care of others as much as people with families do.

3. Carrie (the original) had the following to say on Dec 18 at 12:50 PM:

Y'all have blogged and written about this before. I tend to agree. As far as what can be done to fix it, I think it needs to start with our generation. We can't coddle our children the way our parents coddled us. We need to get them to accept responsibility, starting in early childhood, for their actions. We can't go to teachers and demand that our children have preferential treatment.
Along the same lines, we need to teach our children to obey authority. We should also model it for them. If we get a speeding ticket, we need to own up to it and not tell our children that "Police officers should be out chasing real criminals".
I, myself, am a "extended adolescent" or whatever the term Boundless used on some other blog post many moons ago. I have definitely shrugged responsibility as it was modeled for me in my childhood. What was sad, is that teachers let me get away with it because I wasn't doing drugs or smoking in the bathroom.
Which brings me to another suggestion for stopping this in the next generation -- we shouldn't accept mediocrity. If our kid isn't as good at something as another kid, we shouldn't give them fake compliments. We should help our children find their strengths, but we shouldn't build them up in false confidence. We shouldn't be ashamed to say "I'm sorry Johnny, but you aren't a very good runner. Maybe you should quit the track team. You can throw a ball really well though. Let's work on making you the best pitcher you can be."
We should want our children to excel, but we can't all be CEOs. We should want our children to be happy, but we can't experience true happiness without some real trials.
There is lots more I can say, but I think my generation is more disillusioned than most because we are learning that world is cruel and can eat you alive. Our childhood was filled with people telling us that we were "unique", "special", and "the best". One of my favorite one-liners is "You are unique, just like everyone else".
Gr. I have been sorting through this a lot lately.

4. Pete had the following to say on Dec 18 at 1:02 PM:

I see this happening, but why, exactly, is it a problem? It's more a matter of personal preference.

5. Matt had the following to say on Dec 18 at 1:06 PM:

I don't think it's as simple as not wanting to grow up. It's true that lots of people in this age range refuse to accept adult responsibilities. But the delaying of things like marriage, having kids, buying a home is because it is harder to do these days. If you go to college, more than likely that requires a loan which means a big chunk of your paycheck pays off. If you want a decent job, you often times have to go to an urban area to find them. This means an even big chunk goes to rent. Not to mention high gas prices and the resulting inflation. With all these expenses you can't afford to have kids until your in your thirties. I get paid well in position with good benefits, but even on a double income, I couldn't support two kids living where I do. It really irritates me when I hear people say that my lack of marriage, etc. is a sign that I'm not growing up.

That being said, I know of plenty of people who just don't like a job and will quit it without fully comprehending the implications of such a move. Or the person who goes into a grad program they have minimal interest in to avoid "the real world" or the person who rather than trying to improve his or her career prospects, prefers to live of his or her parent's money.

6. Reid had the following to say on Dec 18 at 1:07 PM:

I don't think the four activities of sticking with jobs, buying houses, getting married, having children necessarily imply "growing up". Also, changes in economics (greater need for more education, higher housing costs) have been behind this trend--for some people, it hasn't really been a choice.

But I also think you're right about the core issue of true adulthood/maturity: responsibility. Duty. Participation in worthy causes, religious and otherwise (voting, for one thing?).

The only way I can think of to fix it is by somehow encouraging people to connect and identify with something greater than him/her. I suppose sarcastic/ironic detachment shields some people from caring, but we need to emphasize that it also results in hopelessness.

7. Derek Wong had the following to say on Dec 18 at 1:34 PM:

You know, as a 20-something myself I can see this happening. Although I guess that I would be different than the majority because I'd rather be called an adult than anything else, it's very easy for people to long for the fun times of their youth. Most notably, I think that it's true that a large percentage of this age group does have a hard time "moving on."

I think that you hit it right on when you say that it's likely because the entertainment industry has grown to love to idolize youth and rather dread age. It might have something to do with wanting what we cannot have. Age is inevitable, so we long for what we cannot truly keep. Maybe. Or maybe they just like the smooth skin and tight bodies.

8. a sassy sister had the following to say on Dec 18 at 1:38 PM:

I think this problem involves both the elders and the young to really face their misconceptions and preconceived notions about each other, realizing that both young people and old need each other, not using their state in life as justification for selfishness or self-righteousness. Young people need to face their mortality and understand that their elders do have wisdom to offer us in really navigating the waters of adulthood, while older adults need to understand that youth does not equal studipidity.

I also believe that parents should be raising their children to be adults by acting like adults in front of their children and in their marriages. Parents cannot complain about the irresponsibility of their teens if they themselves are irresponsible and are trying to be their child's friend first instead of their parents...

9. BB had the following to say on Dec 18 at 1:39 PM:

It really cracked me up in the article talking about guys not wanting to grow up.

Peter Pan was often played by a girl... lol, good point.. So is Ronald McDonald but I don't think that has anything to do with this.

In ancient times... long ago, they would castrate the boys in the boys choir so their voices would not change and they would sound young much longer. Yikes! I changed my mind... I want to grow up please.

10. Christina had the following to say on Dec 18 at 2:05 PM:

I do see it as a problem, but I have no idea what we can do to fix it because the people who need to change obviously don't want to.

The only thing I can do is raise children that take responsibility and actually mature as they grow.

A lot of the lack of maturity stems from how much responsibility the parents made they're children take when they were younger...did more priveleges come with more responsibility? and vice versa? Were they encouraged to take responsibility for their actions in school, towards family and friends, or did the parents stick up for them, shelter them, or keep them under lock and key?

Now to fix it, there's really not much that can be done - its not like we need parental permission to do anything at our age...

11. Emily had the following to say on Dec 18 at 2:46 PM:

Such a great comment...that very few families put the parents' marriage first! And how would that so impact the lives of their children...teaching them how to nurture their own future marriages. Perhaps, if a few of us "responsible" twenty-something can encourage our friends and cheer our friends toward adulthood, we can make some progress! :) Seriously, being an example of the struggle, but also the reward of adult responsibility is the best bet to encouraging people in that direction.

12. Jess @ Making Home had the following to say on Dec 18 at 2:46 PM:

Huge problem, definitely.

My "peers", who (if we lived 25 or 30 years ago) would have been in the same stage I'm currently in, married with several young children, are to a large degree single, or married but putting off children, even though we're nearing 30 and infertility will begin knocking on some of our doors in just a few short years.

It makes me sad to see so many of our generation throwing their young adult lives away when they could be building a family, building memories, and glorifying God together... instead, they're off buying the latest video games or shoes.

13. Jason Ganzer had the following to say on Dec 18 at 2:55 PM:

It's interesting that you post this because I have a roommate that is 24 years old and still finishing up college after taking a semester off. He just doesn't seem to get how being responsible does have to do with being Christlike. He still pays bills late (including rent to me), overdrafts his account, sleeps in, doesn't shower and fails to do laundry. It is frustrating to not see him grow up. I try to encourage him to be more responsible bet he refuses to believe his is irresponsible.

14. Denisha had the following to say on Dec 18 at 2:59 PM:

Yes, it is a big problem. I'm 20 year woman going on 21 and I'm trying my best to adapt to my "adult" role. All my life (even as at 18)I was tried as a child who couldn't never do anything.
" Be quiet this adult business."
"You don't know what you're talking about!"
"Why don't you hang with the teenagers."

I'm been told this NOW!
Sure part of the problem is with society but another part is with adult parents who fail to encourage and honor their adult child age!

I have alot to do in the adult apartment but atleast I'm trying to grow up.

15. Rachel had the following to say on Dec 18 at 3:15 PM:

I absolutely see it as a problem for our generation. This period of extended adolescence fosters, if not encourages, selfishness.

I know several people who have graduated college, gotten good-paying jobs, and still live at home. While I certainly don't condemn this for new college grads to get on their feet, and perhaps pay down some debt, it seems ridiculous when I see a 22-year old living at home buy a flat-screen tv. But the truth is, most of us would rather leech off of our parents and buy more toys than grow up and support ourselves.

If this is the pervasive attitude of our generation, it's no wonder so many wonderful, godly women are finding themselves still single in their mid- to late 20's. The guys would rather stay at home buying Wiis instead of learning a little responsibility and growing up.

16. Jethro had the following to say on Dec 18 at 3:31 PM:

I take your point Denise, but there is something kind of sad about a 21 year old who takes life really seriously and never seems to be able to go out with their friends for a drink and just let go for a while.

17. Kevin had the following to say on Dec 18 at 3:38 PM:

People of a certain age still living with their parents are certainly a concern . . . for the parents. I work in a white-collar job, own my own home, a truck and newer car, and I have no intention of ever getting married or having children. I've been working since I was nine and I just turned 36. I have no intention of giving up my freedoms later in life when I barely had a childhood. Especially when those children might not ever move out. And every time a child patiently tries to pour warm milk into my shirt on a plane, I'm more convinced I have vision, and the rest of the world wears bifocals.

18. Kellie had the following to say on Dec 18 at 4:06 PM:

I agree that the younger generations often seem to take a while to grow up. I don't think that being married and/or having children necessarily has a part in that. I have single friends who are very mature and serve God very well. I don't think I'm necessarily more mature because I'm married, nor do I think my friends who have children are more mature simply because they have children. I think it really depends on the attitude of the person and what they seek with their life.

19. Kit had the following to say on Dec 18 at 4:49 PM:

Hi Emily,
Congrats on your marriage. :-) However, your post seemed to convey that is it the only thing that will make you grow up. I disagree. If you have to support yourself, it is also do or die.

20. J. had the following to say on Dec 18 at 6:26 PM:

Emily Shepherd, I'd like to respectfully respond to your comments.

I think it's great that you married at the age of 24. I had hoped to be married by the age of 25, but I'm now 31 and still unmarried. This makes me very sad, and it has been a difficult road.

That being said, I do not consider myself a child because I lack a husband. I have a responsible full-time job, am financially secure, contribute a significant portion of my salary to charity, participate in church and community volunteer activities, and value my relationships with my family members and friends. When problems arise in my life, a knight in shining armor doesn't emerge to help, if not take care of everything; rather, I usually have to solve problems myself. Also, a disturbing number of married women have parent-child relationships with their husbands, where the husband controls everything and the wife is unable to make even the smallest decision on her own and without her husband's input (e.g., which color dress to buy or what variety of cheap cookies to buy at the grocery store). My point is that I, and many other single women who are similar to me, are fully-grown adult women who in some ways are -- dare I say it? -- MORE adult than certain married women because we have no choice but to be responsible and take care of ourselves.

21. xeres had the following to say on Dec 18 at 7:17 PM:

It brings a question: What makes someone mature really? Being married or single isn't much of an indicator of maturity. Also, just because someone is living by themselves does not make anyone any more mature than one who has to live with someone. Beside biological development, it's really one's ability to handle any situation that one gets thrown in along with spiritual development. No amount of independence or living together alone is necessarily going to help. All it does is it provides opportunity to grow. It's what you do with that season you are in or the opportunity. Time in of itself does nothing.

The problem really is people are sliding through life, hardly ever been in the moment and don't take the time to balance between leisure and work.

22. Bethany D. had the following to say on Dec 18 at 7:28 PM:

While the majority of the 20-ish year olds I know are fully functional & responsible adults, I do see this in a large enough minority to view it as a problem. I personally think financial ignorance is a large part of the problem. A person in control of their finances (both short-term budgeting and long-term saving) will make very different choices than someone who only gets concerned if their credit card is maxed out.

23. Amy P. had the following to say on Dec 18 at 7:38 PM:

J. - I totally agree with you. Being responsible, takes responsibility in ALL areas of life including: finances, time, employment, relationships, etc. This is the route that I am taking!

Although for some, marriage is what initiates their "adulthood", I find it very scarry to say that it is the ONLY way to become an adult. As a single woman (age 24), if marriage is what it takes to be an adult, then my prospects are looking a bit bleak! In no way am I trying to delay marriage, the opportunity has just not presented itself (no dates yet!).

Please do not equate the adulthood with marriage!

24. San Soo had the following to say on Dec 18 at 8:17 PM:

I believe there is quite a bit of truth in what Denise argues. I know in my life I have made choices that have stunted my own growth as an adult, I have been irresponsible when I should have been responsible, and I avoided accountability and stability when I should have embraced them.

That being said, I am seriously tired of hearing/reading (especially on Boundless) that being single is indicative of immaturity. I think overall there is truth in the argument, but I can't help but be irritated by the incessant claiming that marriage=maturity. Is that really the really the case? My parents married in June of 1964; my dad was 19 and my mom was 17. They're still together after 43 years. My mom tells me that within three or four months of marrying nearly all of her friends were married. My parents are proof that a young couple can make it for the long haul. Most of my mom's friends weren't so lucky...nearly all of them divorced.

I am 29, single, and I live alone. I have had the same job for four years (teacher), and I love what I do. I nearly married at 18, but an abortion ended the relationship and the hope of marrying my love. It has taken a long time to grow up, mature, and heal. I don't know if my gf and I would have been a good married couple (my heart tells me yes, my mind tells me no). I do know that being single and alone is tough, but it's also good in many ways. I do not wish to remain single, but I do not wish to marry just to marry.

I know that I will be a great husband. I will also be a great father. I have worked in education in one form or another for 8 years. My experience working with kids has prepared me for being a dad. I have picked up skills that were not a part of the culture that helped raise me and and an entire generation. I have had to learn what it means to be a man, what it takes to treat a woman well, and what I need to do to thrive in this world. In short, while I will be one of the many who now marry in their late 20s/early 30s, I know that it has been god's will for me to grow in this way...I'm a better man for it.

Please, Boundless, could you do more to support those of us who are trying to grow as men and women in Christ? I appreciate your concern for the delayed marriage phenomenon (trust me, it's frustrating...I've known too many Christian women who are 25 or older and have no idea what it means to be a woman, what it means to treat a man well, and no desire to make marriage a reality...it's very annoying). Nevertheless, the stories from Boundless writers are starting to make me want to not read Boundless anymore. The married writers seem to berate their unmarried peers, and the unmarried ones seem to just be itching for the day they can be of the aforementioned party.

The shaming, the pity parties, and the holier-than-thou stuff has got to go.

25. Sara had the following to say on Dec 18 at 8:26 PM:

[just testing here... to see if a different comment will be interpreted as spam. What makes something get flagged that way? I didn't put any web addresses or product names in the post)

26. Chris had the following to say on Dec 18 at 8:39 PM:

From what I read of the review of the book, it sounds a bit alarmist. How one can jump from extended adolescence to our inability to combat the growth of radical Islam is a bit beyond me. But I digress.....

The problem with adults acting this way lies, IMHO, solely with the parents. Behind almost every "child-adult" (for lack of a better word), I believe you'll find an enabling adult. Every person my age (36) or younger that displays this behavior has an adult, usually a parent, who "takes care" of them: providing financial support that shields them from consequences, taking care of children so they can go to bars on a Saturday night (regularly, not just for a now and then parent's night out), and otherwise generally picking up the slack.

I'm grateful my parents always made it clear when I was a teenager that I was out of the house come graduation. It was college or work. And after college, it was work and my own place to live. When I had to return to home for a few weeks between employment, it was understood, without anything being said, that I should be looking for a job to get back out on my own ASAP.

That, IMHO, is the only cure for this type of behavior. Yes, parents must love and raise their children and support them in time of need. But it should be well-drilled into their heads that they must leave after graduation (high school, college, whatever) and that if they do need help (money, a place to live, help with the kids), it's only temporary.

People are, by their very nature, resistant to change. In this case, it must be forced upon them.

(On a side note, this provides a great benefit to the parents as well. I was out of the house for good when my dad was 43. It's given him and my mom plenty of time to pursue their own interests. I can't imagine being one of these parents who are in their 50s or 60s with kids in the house. When I'm that age, I want to spend my time with my wife and maybe any grandkids. Any time I spend with my boys should be having beers, smoking turkeys, and watching football games when they bring the grandkids over, not having them live in my house.)

27. Adam D had the following to say on Dec 18 at 8:51 PM:

First off, what is up with that first post?

Secondly, and this is my personal opinion, but I always viewed maturity and adulthood as someone who has the guts to stand up for themselves and others and their beliefs. Adults are people who aren't cowards and shoulder responsibility, especially when it comes with violent repercussions (like the Christians who die for their faith in other parts of the world). Anyone can learn to take care of themselves; I used to know a girl who raised her brothers and herself for years because of her bad parents. She could take care of herself real good, to the point where she was pretty adept at using people, but she was no adult and in my view was not ready for marriage and child rearing. Perhaps she could get married and raise children, but not in a responsible way that would bring up good children.

Lastly, a thought of mine which includes myself is that this adult dilemma seems to be mostly about young white suburban or rural kids. How many of us belong in that category? This extended adolescence problem just seems to be the result of spoiling kids with cushy lives that haven't had to make a stand or any sacrifices. I think these people are just spoiled materialistic children, and I am included in that bunch, I don't deny that.

A question I guess I would ask is if this problem is abundant in any third world countries where most people are poor and have to eek out their existence in some way that would brake me. Ok my rant is over, carry on.

28. Mag had the following to say on Dec 18 at 8:57 PM:

I don't think people mean that marriage is the only way to "become an adult", but that it is often an eye-opener for some people because it can be difficult!
I have been really thinking about this recently, I am in a serious relationship and have lately been debating whether or not I am ready to marry him (I am 20).
In the past people got married and started families at younger ages than they do now. While I agree with all of the other arguments being presented about why this is, could it not also be that our life expectancy has increased significantly? If I live until I am 80, I will have spent 1/4 of my life "growing up" and single, 1/4 of my life raising children, 1/2 of my life as an empty-nester and a total 3/4 of my life with my spouse..
Good thing to think about during those moments when I feel as though I just cannot wait to get married, haha.

29. Kelly had the following to say on Dec 18 at 9:26 PM:

A lot of people see living at home during your 20's as not growing up.

For me, it was my favoured solution. I've had many flatmates and they've all been just far too stressful. I moved back in with my parents, who know how to clean.

Sure, I could afford a place of my own, but then I would be LONELY. There's nothing more awful than coming home to an empty place night after night (God made us for community).

So in some ways, people are avoiding growing up by staying at home. In other ways, they're staying for the company in a safe and loving environment. Is that so bad?

30. Kelly (trying to get away from error) had the following to say on Dec 18 at 9:27 PM:

A lot of people see living at home during your 20's as not growing up.

For me, it was my favoured solution. I've had many flatmates and they've all been just far too stressful. I moved back in with my parents, who know how to clean.

Sure, I could afford a place of my own, but then I would be LONELY. There's nothing more awful than coming home to an empty place night after night (God made us for community).

So in some ways, people are avoiding growing up by staying at home. In other ways, they're staying for the company in a safe and loving environment. Is that so bad?

31. Stanhope had the following to say on Dec 18 at 9:38 PM:

Sure, more people get married these days in their 30s instead of in their teens or 20s. I'm not sure that qualifies as some horrible tragedy or societal problem. A hundred years ago, life expectancy was a lot shorter and children worked in factories and coal mines -- that sure made 'em grow up fast. Was it a good thing? Think about it.

Let's not automatically label something 'good' merely because it happened in the past or assume that something is bad because it's different from how life was lived during Victorian, or medieval, or Biblical times. Frankly, I'm really happy that I have a longer life expectancy, better health, better education, and more options than virtually any previous generation.

32. BDB had the following to say on Dec 18 at 10:23 PM:

Marriage creates grown-ups? Oh, I dunno. I've watched lots of married people make really irresponsible decisions. I'll agree that people who STAY married tend to be the ones who decide to take responsibility for their own choices and for the people around them. Unfortunately, there's lots of divorces created by selfishness, too.

I'm sure everyone has heard the phrase, "All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy." At the same time, Jack is probably the one who has no credit card debt, pays his mortgage on time, and is generally responsible. But from the outside, responsible usually looks boring. For the record, getting your credit score from 595 to 800 is extremely satisfying, but usually takes a lot of work paying off debt, etc.

It is ironic that even many churches instruct young people to seek marriage by building a relationship with someone on entertainment (dating) alone. I think this results in people only facing operational reality after they are married and trying to make all the financial and other pieces (insurance, housekeeping, etc.) fit together.

I've seen lots of people break off relationships when its not pure "fun" anymore. When I was in college, I knew a guy whose dad divorced both his wives, including my friend's mother, when the child he had with them was 2 years old. I met his dad at a holiday party, and he was a fun guy to be around. I remember him sitting on the couch with some kind of Sesame Street character on his bald head. But I could never forget that this guy also left two women to be single mothers so that he could be the "fun dad" when it suited him.
So, no, I don't think marriage automatically creates maturity. I think that it forces people to choose whether or not to grow up and take responsibility. For some people, they choose to step up to the plate. Others choose to walk away.

33. Sara had the following to say on Dec 18 at 10:32 PM:

Denisha,
that's a good point about how just being treated more like adults, even if we're not there yet in every way, makes us act with more maturity.

That reminds me of that study that showed that if teachers are told that certain students of theirs are gifted (even if they're average) they'll often treat them differently in such a way that by the end of the year the kids actually do perform above average.

It's too bad if potential goes unrealized for lack of encouragement, and it's a reminder that there's more to good thinking than looking squarely at what's in front of you: it's about seeing the things that could be there, too, and helping them become part of reality.

34. Rachael had the following to say on Dec 18 at 10:52 PM:

Just to be fair to people who live at home who are a considered to be a bit "advanced" in years to be doing that (in the U.S.) -- everyone's situation is different. Some may be staying with their parents temporarily for financial reasons. Some may be staying there to help their parents out emotionally, spiritually, financially, or through health problems. Some might be staying there for cultural reasons. I guess we should remember that "independence" doesn't always equal "maturity." Like xeres said, "No amount of independence or living together alone is necessarily going to help." I don't think we should cast premature external judgment on people's maturity level because they live at home. And even if 'they' are immature? Well don't we all have issues of immaturity and areas in which we are need of spiritual growth? Yes. It's a life-long process. I don't think older people are always "mature". Maturity is related to one's faith, love, character, and eternal perspectives. I think spending time with others and being molded by God's Word would help with the maturity process. I still believe that having a family of one's own (I don't speak from personal experience here) can help with this process as it will (hopefully) force one to consider others' needs above one's own , but of course it's not the only maturity method out there! Anyway, isn't exciting to know that He who began a good work in us is faithful to complete it! (Phil 1:6)

35. Hannah had the following to say on Dec 19 at 12:07 AM:

I agree that this is a real problem. I am 21 and consider myself an adult. However, being one semester away from college graduation, I do not yet have a full-time job (however I am anticipating looking for such a job asap and not depending on my parents for any longer than absolutely necessary). Of course, with that I do not yet own a home. I am not married, although I would really like to be. The problem, I believe, consists in the "men" around me that refuse to grow up, leave home, and take on the responsibility of family. Of course, I don't have children either.

My point is, I would love to have all of these things and strive towards them, but due to circumstances beyond my control, I do not yet have them. Does this make me less of an adult? Absolutely not. Being an adult is taking responsibility for one's actions, supporting oneself, at least as much as possible (it's difficult to pay all the rent on a work-study salary), and emotionally leaving the nest and being ones own person outside their parents.

36. Jo had the following to say on Dec 19 at 12:43 AM:

"...sticking with jobs, buying houses, getting married, having children..."

I'm 25.
I quit my job to pursue a masters degree.
I'm moving back to my mum's in a few months because I'm a student again and won't be able to afford rent, let alone a mortgage.
I'm not married or even in a relationship.
I certainly don't have kids.
I consider myself mature.

Surely the 84% of 18-25s who don't consider themselves mature must include a fair number of married people? Maybe we need a complimentary statistic for that.

37. Hannah had the following to say on Dec 19 at 12:55 AM:

It's interesting, but a couple of friends and I were just talking about this a few days ago...we're all single, one of us has a job and an apartment, two of us do not have either and live with a relative and/or on the road a lot. But I don't think that makes us any less mature! My one friend lives with his mom, but only when he is not traveling, as the Lord leads, and leading others into the heart of worship with the songs God has given him--otherwise, he lives out of his car and by the grace of God for provisions! My other friend has a steady job, an apartment she shares with one roommate, and lives the usually looked upon "mature" life--except for being single, that is!--but she is starting to leave it all behind, and like us, to join up with the ministry God is leading us to do--and expect God to pay the bills.

Therefore, I don't believe that being married, having the responsibility of a family, etc would make me more of an adult. Nor do I believe that living without many responsibilities makes one less of an adult either. However, before I say too much on that, I should specify that I, on the other hand, am an "adultescence" as they say. I believe it has more to do with the person themself and where their heart is! AND how they were brought up--my mom never LET me get past 13, and still insisted on doing everything just like that even after I came back from Bible college!

I want to grow up! Have wanted to be considered my age for years! Part of the problem is my height automatically gets me the assumption of being young (sometimes even ten years younger then I am; I'm 23!). But part of it has been my personality/character puts me at that age, but with every right too! I've had a lack of time, example, and encouragement to grow up--or even direction on HOW to grow up (only the phrase "You need to grow up," but never why they said that in the first place! I've prayed for a while for maturity, and finally a year ago God orchastrated circumstances and people into my life and within two short weeks, I had moved from my little home town with my parents' and their mindset (and abuse) to a city with my Uncle and his family with their love and their automatic mindset of treating me my age--talk about a new adjustment!. And to some, this still might be seen as immaturity (living with relatives, that is)--and since I'm still growing, they have a right to believe that of me, just not in the living conditions! I work for my Uncle, help my Aunt out, and lead by example--which I pray is getting to be a better example!--to my cousin. I do, however, pay for some of my room and board and, as I said, work several hours a week editing videos, doing mailings, etc for my Uncle. But the bonus of it all? That God gave me exactly what I had desired and prayed for: among many things, for a couple to lead by example in the RIGHT relationship of bringing up a child and maintaining a marriage; people who would except me into their home as one of their own, though an immature adult, but also they would be fully willing to lead me in the way I should walk (which my aunt is also an incredible mentor, as well as a teacher/preahcer!); and I get to travel a lot with this family of like desires, mind, and heart as me--we are missionaries constently traveling the world, always expanding our horizons as my Uncle and I make and take video Bible schools everywhere, and my Aunt, whom God bestowed powerful teaching on the covenant to, teaches across the US as people continue to request her! So though, to the world this all may be seen as immature--how we live daily, and how I relate and live with them--it is in fact one of the best things that has ever happened to me and the best school of maturity for me!

Though, I will agree that most of our generation is immature--I included. I fully believe that if we desire to mature, God will direct our steps and lead us to BE the person He wants of us. For those who do not wish to mature, or do not see that they need it, I am sorry. But for myself, I have found an even greater freedom in maturity. And it's not ALL about responsibilities and not acting, occassionally (there is a time for everything as the Bible says) "immature"--how many very-older people have you met that are also "young at heart," as we say? It's all a matter of the heart, a desire to want it badly enough to run for it, and, to an extent, accepting yourself just as you are too, even if that is acting a bit "wierd" and "funny" at times (it all has to do with knowing when the TIME is for it! And some people most think I'm older and wiser, or in college they would not have come to me for advice, prayer, and counseling, though they were in truth older then I in age!)!

Furthermore, God is the best school we can ever attend! Desire something, and abide in Christ for it. I think that is some of the best advice I've ever heard, and because of God and His perfect timing, I am finally maturing as He would have me mature--and having mentors and two encouraging/sometimes-brutally-honest friends helps too! Seek out an example, and EXPECT God to do something great in your lives!
"Trust in the Lord...And He will make your paths straight." If you want to grow up, He'll help! And it won't be as hard as you think, and it WILL be more rewarding then you know--there really is freedom in the maturity of the heart and mindset!

I hope this wasn't too long. and in part, at least, was helpful! God bless...HJ

38. alex had the following to say on Dec 19 at 4:10 AM:

I think one reason some people my age don't want to grow up is because they don't like what they see. 'Adults' never seem to have any fun! Especially Christian adults - half the people I know are in miserable marriages and every time I hear my pastor touting the benefits of marriage or giving mass counseling I want to choke. I would never in a million years pursue what he and his wife have!

I think my generation wants to figure things out for ourselves. We believe in education, having healthy relationships, and honesty. Sometimes, actually a lot of the time, the 'grown up' world seems fake.

39. Robert J Espe had the following to say on Dec 19 at 7:31 AM:

It may be a problem for my generation, but it is not a problem for me, so I don't see why I would worry about "fixing" it. It is hurting them, but I am a happily married, financially secure, college educated 22 year old.

However, I think the easy way to reduce this in the future is to remove the allure of eternal childhood. Childhood is only appealing because it represents freedom without responsibility. Let's be honest, everyone would like that. The solution is to reverse those two things. Childhood should be a period of responsibility without freedom. The desire for freedom then provides the incentive to grow up and the responsibility won't be a barrier, since the child would have that either way. I don't know where Americans got the idea that childhood should be an era of carefree indulgence, but it hasn't been history's norm, and it isn't good for kids. Now I admit that the child could still leave as soon as they turn 18, but at least they will know how to do dishes, laundry, cook, clean and balance a checkbook. And I believe getting them out of the house was part of the goal anyways.

40. a sassy sister had the following to say on Dec 19 at 7:39 AM:

I believe in regards to that comment about marriage and adulthood boils down to this: marriage and children merely REVEALS your level of maturity and willingness to grow as a person, period. The only reason why some would post that marriage somehow "triggered" or awakened their process of growth further proves my point----that it is not the circumstances in life that dictate how mature we are, but how we respond to those circumstances and deal with them that show how "grown" we really are. Singleness does not equal irresponsibility, and marriage doesn't equal adulthood. There are plenty of immature and irresponsible people in the world who get married every day, and it doesn't make them more mature than a single, responsible man or woman. So if you're mature, you'll grow as a person because you made the DECISION to grow and take responsibility for your actions. Your character determines your conduct, as your conduct reveals your maturity and character.

41. Adam had the following to say on Dec 19 at 7:40 AM:

Hey Everyone!

I think the problem is defining what we mean by "mature" and "grown up." The idea that these things are external [marriage, children, steady job, etc.] is soundly refuted by the the author of the Book of Hebrews:

Hebrews 5:13-14 For everyone who partakes only of milk is not accustomed to the word of righteousness, for he is an infant. 14 But solid food is for the mature, who because of practice have their senses trained to discern good and evil.

True maturity simply has to do with whether you feed of the meat or the milk of the word of God. For instance, I don't see a problem with someone who has gotten laid off at the last four jobs not having a job. However, I would see a problem with someone who purposefully leave those jobs. Why? Because, they are not willing to work, and thus, should not eat:

2 Thessalonians 3:10-13 For even when we were with you, we used to give you this order: if anyone is not willing to work, then he is not to eat, either. 11 For we hear that some among you are leading an undisciplined life, doing no work at all, but acting like busybodies. 12 Now such persons we command and exhort in the Lord Jesus Christ to work in quiet fashion and eat their own bread. 13 But as for you, brethren, do not grow weary of doing good.

That is why we cannot define an "adult" in terms of external appearances. The author of the Book of Hebrews defines an adult spiritually, as to whether they live off the meat or the milk of the word. Thus, we are looking in the wrong place if we are looking at where the person lives, and whether or not they are married and have children. I think the better question that we would rather ask how the person would handle these demanding situations. Would they handle them in a manner that is God glorifying? I would submit to Emily that the fact that she is willing to work so hard to keep her marriage going shows that she did have maturity before she married [at least in this area]. There are a whole lot of people who see the difficulties that accompany marriage, and are immediately seeking a divorce.

That is why I believe we must train up our children to be good Christians, and recognize that, if they trust in him, he will lead and direct their lives. If we train our children to have obedience to God, and to trust in him always, then we can trust in God that he will direct their lives. The most important thing is to teach children to trust in Christ in whatever situation God puts them.

Thus, we cannot look at someone's situation in life to determine their maturity. Maturity is deeper than that. Maturity is a matter of the sanctifying work of the Holy Spirit in the lives of a person. Do you have the sanctifying work of the Holy Spirit that desires to do God's will in all situations? Do you trust in him with all of your heart?

You see, the most disturbing thing about these statistics is that the parents are saying these things. Why is that? Because they know the character of their children, and are able to say that they are not mature.

When I was a child, I used to hear adults say that they themselves were still children. However, what they meant by that is that, compared to what God wants them to be, they have a long way to go. Compared to God, they used to say, our maturity falls woefully short. However, this pursuit and desire for holiness is something that our modern society has lost. In fact, in many cases, our society has stooped deep into perverse actions and behavior.

The remedy for this the raising of covenant children. We are called to bring up our Children in the training and admonition of the Lord. We are called to raise them "in the Lord," to trust in him, to obey him, and to love him with all their heart [Deuteronomy 6:5-7], and trust in God and his promises [Acts 2:38-39]. If we are faithful in doing this, I believe we will see changes.

God Bless,
Adam

42. Elaine had the following to say on Dec 19 at 7:45 AM:

43. Kathryn had the following to say on Dec 19 at 7:59 AM:

One of my friends is living with her boyfriend, she's at university, but with no direction and cannot hold down a job for longer than 2 months.

I've lived on my own supporting myself, I'm at uni now, having already figured out what I want to do and am pursuing it. I can hold down a job for a number of years.

She wonders why we're drifting apart, but it's all too clear to me. We are living completely different lives and I cannot see any evidence of maturity in her. It frustrates me that she has much the same attitude from high school.

This is my way of saying that yes, my generation doesn't want to grow up.

44. Amanda L had the following to say on Dec 19 at 8:07 AM:

I'm 20, and I still live in my parents home, so do my adult brothers.
However, between the 3 of us, we pay half of the expensive rent on the house my family decided we wanted to move into.
I did live away from home for one year, as a live-in nanny, but decided I needed a break from constant childcare and that I liked living with my family better.
I have accepted the responsibility of adulthood...though not its most strenuous aspects.
I pay room and board.
I pay my tithe, I sponser a child, I pay my cellphone bill, I contribute to the funds needed to keep my grandmother in a comfortable nursing home.
I buy groceries occasionally.
I pay my bills and obligations before I spend my money on fun.
I have a full-time job.
I have no desire to go to college, mainly because I have no desire to go in to debt and no real "career" aspirations.
I may be considered stagnant in my employment, but if I enjoy my work and am making enough money to live on, then I am satisfied.
I have learned the skills neccassary for upkeeping a home...both at home and as a nanny(I was also sort of a housekeeper).
I haven't bought a car, and I take the bus if I can't get a ride from my dad or a friend.

I am friends with many married couples, many of whom were married at my age or even younger.
I haven't found this strange, I've found it refreshing and normal.

45. Denise Morris had the following to say on Dec 19 at 8:18 AM:

Hey Friends,

I just want to clarify that I'm not equating marriage with adulthood. I think some of the people who are shirking responsibility see marriage as equaling adulthood which is why they don't do it.

But there are lots of symptoms of this "Peter Pan" syndrome. I'm single, but I would consider myself an adult. However, I have other single friends who have jobs but only spend the money on themselves because their parents still pay for most of their necessary expenses.

Anyhoo, I'm definitely not saying that being single is always a sign of extended adolescence. And, I don't think that once you "grow up" you can never have fun again either. :-)

46. Loris had the following to say on Dec 19 at 8:45 AM:

Marriage is not the only way to grow up, but it is a very good reality check. I got married a week before turning twenty-one. Thankfully, no one in my church made an issue of my age, because I was ready to grow up and my marriage was a huge means of maturity for me. Hopefully in the two years since, I've learned some things.

Somebody mentioned the parent-child relationship with a controlling husband. What I see among my friends who also married young is a parent-child relationship where the women are more eager to take responsibility and the men are more likely to want to play all evening and not lift a finger when they get home from work while their wives cook and clean with an air of martyrdom. (And yes, I am speaking for myself.) I know that is a stereotype these days of the hard-working woman and the slacker man, but most stereotypes have some truth behind them.

What I have also noticed is that my single girlfriends really are desperate to grow up, but financial considerations are the biggest obstacle, especially if they want to go to grad school. My best friend has returned home after graduating from college and is now enrolled in law school. She is struggling to balance being respectful to her parents with her desire for independence. Given the choice, she would move out in an instant, but she cannot afford to because of her enormous loans, and the law school she attends is not far from her parents' house, so it is practical for her to stay home.
Two of my guy friends have joined the military because they couldn't afford to stay in college but felt they were too old to live at home. As unpopular as the military is these days with many folks, it is still a good way for young people to acquire some independence and discipline and I am extremely proud of my friends who joined up.

Rant Part II will follow shortly.

47. Loris had the following to say on Dec 19 at 9:19 AM:

Rant Part II: Part of the adultescence problem is the segregation of age groups within our churches and society. When the only people a young person talks to are roughly his age, he isn't going to learn that many people currently in their late fifties/early sixties left home or married at 19 and that it was hard, but nobody thought anything of it. Young people need to hear that hardship and tight budgets are normal for people just starting out and shouldn't be a deterrent for moving out or getting married. My generation is very afraid of discomfort. Our parents have bent over backward to provide expensive toys that we view as our due. Many of us have no clue how to handle money because our parents don't. Not to mention increasing numbers of young people have had their favor bought by divorced parents who feel guilty for not paying attention to their kids. That later extends to workplaces where young employees won’t stay unless they’re constantly being rewarded.

I wish our parents would give us realistic expectations. My generation is so pampered, we hit an obstacle and whine "I didn't know this would be so HARD." If we were prepared ahead of time, we wouldn't want to run back home when we run into difficulties.

48. Marc from Peoria had the following to say on Dec 19 at 10:50 AM:

Somewhere north of ninety percent of the posts thus far have been primarily anecdotal, with their examples supporting wildly varying criteria of "adulthood." It is never my intent to be pedantic, but we need some definitions here, folks.

In my experience (dang, looks like I'm in the majority), adulthood looks like financial responsibility (slash) independence, foresight with regards to personal decisions, and a self-sustaining faith system.

Let me qualify some of those. Financial responsibility means spending only the money you have to spend, and not spending any money that is not yours to spend (e.g. earmarked for future events, excessive credit, or parents' funds). Possessing foresight means carefully considering the long-term ramifications of any action, be it quitting a job, taking a job, going back to school, or expanding your family. It bears saying that neither wisdom in foresight nor personal spiritual growth occur in a vacuum. In my experience in the Word, an "adult" will seek advice and council, wisdom and accountability. For sure, a believer trying to lone-wolf their career track, family plans, and growth in relationship with the Lord is exhibiting sure signs of prolonged childhood.

Also-
Kevin, congratulations on the truck; I'm sure you two will be very happy together.

49. Marc from Peoria had the following to say on Dec 19 at 12:16 PM:

In my experience (dang, looks like I'm sitting at the majority table with this one), adulthood looks like financial responsibility (slash) independence, foresight with regards to personal decisions, and a self-sustaining faith system.

An individual who exhibits a self-sustaining faith system takes steps to maintain and grow their relationship with God, even when departed from the "inertia" of a childhood church upbringing.

It bears saying that neither wisdom in foresight nor personal spiritual growth occur in a vacuum. In my experience in the Word, an "adult" will seek advice and council, wisdom and accountability. For sure, a believer trying to lone-wolf their career track, family plans, and growth in relationship with the Lord is exhibiting sure signs of prolonged childhood.

Also-
Kevin, congratulations on the truck; I'm sure you two will be very happy together.

50. Adam had the following to say on Dec 19 at 12:31 PM:

Hey Everyone!

God Bless,
Adam

51. Mike Theemling had the following to say on Dec 19 at 2:22 PM:

Just briefly (I'll read more of the responses when I have time):

- To me, I tend to agree that the words "Grown Up" and "Mature" are synonymous. For example, we say to someone regardless of their age to "Grow Up!" implying to act mature.

- Marriage and/or children != Maturity (!= means "does not equal" by the way). Marriage is easy to enter. Producing children is even easier. Just choosing to marry does not equate to maturity although it can help further the process.

- The problem largely stems from two things. One, are parents who don't adequately prepare their kids and are too permissive, or parents who just aren't there (this would include single family homes). It also comes from a mentality that it's primarily the government's job to fix ALL of societies' ills and one can just sit back and not do their fair share. What ever happened to Kennedy's "Ask not what this country can do for you, ask what can you do for your country"?

- How I basically define adulthood (maturity-wise). By no means an exhaustive list:

1) Moving out of your family's home and start paying for your own room and board the moment you leave High School or College. Having roommates is acceptable as long as you aren't using it solely as a crutch.

2) Working a meaningful job and doing it well. Doesn't matter if it's a minimum wage burger flipper or a big company CEO. You get up in the morning (or evening) and go to work for like the rest of us. "Find yourself" on your own time.

3) Taking responsibility for your actions. That means you don't immediately blame your spouse/boss/government/etc. every time something doesn't go your way. If you screw up you admit it, ask for forgiveness, fix it, and move on.

52. Jethro had the following to say on Dec 19 at 2:57 PM:

Who cares. If you're 45 and want to live at home, and your parents are fine with it, then go for it. Likewise if you're 17/18 and want to move out. People are free agents.

53. Mike Theemling had the following to say on Dec 19 at 3:37 PM:

Jethro,

Maybe if an unusual circumstances would warrant it (such as a disability) or culturally it's the norm (such as China it's not uncommon for adults to live with their parents, but that's mainly because of costs), but overall I'd say you are doing your children a disservice by staying in the nest.

First, you are teaching them that there's no rush to get a decent job which will allow them to earn a living wage. I know of very few professional workers who live with their parents. They (anecdotally) seem to be those working a low wage jobs. And you know what, they usually aren't socking away the money for a downpayment on a mortgage. They are using it to buy more "toys" for themselves.

Secondly, not only is living at home a possible hinderance to finding a marriage partner (again, how attractive is it, esp for a guy to say "Yes, I'm 40 years old and still live with my folks?) but it can discourage the desire for marriage/family in the first place. It's one thing to let your son/daughter continue to live with you into adulthood, it's another to let you get married and have the wife stay too for the long term. Again, part of it is cultural. In other countries, this may be the norm and isn't such a big deal, but in this country I know of few parents who wouldn't expect the newlywed son/daughter to move out and start a life of their own. As stated, I do not think marriage = maturity but I do believe it can facilitate the process and this is one way that it can.

Finally, what will eventually happen when the parents pass away? Who will take care of the (much older) kids now? Uncle Bob? His/her sister? That just sounds pathetic if he/she doesn't move out then and instead decides to try and gain free room/board with some other relative.

Just my 2 cents.

54. Emily Shepherd had the following to say on Dec 19 at 4:00 PM:

Thanks to those who responded to my post -- I do want to qualify what I meant, as in re-reading it and the other comments I can see how it was misunderstood.

I did not mean to imply that marriage is the only way to grow up, by any means, or that I am somehow more "mature" because I married young, or that people who are single are always immature. Far from it. Any time you are required to be responsible for your own life --whether it's paying your own way through school, paying your own rent, etc -- , you will grow up more, and that's a continual process. I did grow up in some areas by finding/holding a job, paying my own rent, not relying on any support from my parents, etc. Unfortunately, a number of cultural factors are contributing to that being required of our generation less and less, and later and later in life. Perhaps my view is skewed from knowing a lot of people who are still allowed to not work and rely on their parents even when they are able to support themselves. Chris points out that this dilemma seems limited to white suburban populations -- that's likely very true. This is likely the same population that delays taking on any reponsibility (including marriage) to "have fun for awhile."

I know many wonderful, single, mature women who have been a great example to me throughout our friendship. By saying that I realized all along I had been a little girl, I was more just commenting on the way that marriage requires you to confront yourself and your issues, and admitting that I had not done that while single -- I was NOT calling single women children! At all! I surely wish I had matured more before marrying, but I also can see how my lack of maturity has a lot to do with my parents not forcing me to face up to the reality of life earlier. I don't say that to blame them, but there is a lot that parents can do to encourage children to face life's realities and not live in denial, and I hope my husband and I can help our children start marriage on a more mature foot than I did.

Yes, anyone can enter into marriage, and many immature people do (I was including myself in that group, in fact) but it takes maturity to stay married when 50% of pepole don't, much LESS have a happy marriage, which is what we all want! It takes putting your commitment to God and your spouse before your own happiness, every day -- and anyone can see that our culture in general tells us to walk away when we're no longer happy or fulfilled. Every day is a reminder of how far I have to go in my walk as a Christian wife, and that is incredibly humbling. Every day is a call to serve another in Christ's love, and suddenly you find how often your own selfishness gets in the way. Gary Thomas argues in "Sacred Marriage" (great book) that many of the divorces that occur in the first two or three years of marriage are not from the faults you see in the other person, but discovering how far short you fall of Christ's call to love and respect your spouse unconditionally, no matter how they are treating you, day in/day out. I tend to agree. Nothing is harder for me to handle, sometimes, than seeing how often I end up sinning against the very person I love most. Few things in life expose your own sinfulness with the glaring neon signs more than marriage does. On the other hand, it is a wonderful reminder of my all-consuming need for God to empower me with the fruits of the Spirit. This year has shown me beyond the shadow of a doubt that I am not capable of fully loving my husband out of my own ability.

BDB said that something along the lines that marriage forces you to make a choice -- either grow up or walk away. This is what I meant about it being do or die, and that if you choose to grow, it will help you grow up -- and probably FAST. Other adult situations are do or die, I didn't mean to imply that they aren't.

Finally, in response to someone saying that in previous generations people married much earlier because they had to, and wondering if that was really better -- think about that in the perspective of trying to maintain purity before marriage. Doesn't it seem like some sort of disconnect to be sexually mature (in a physical sense) at 14 or 15, but the first wave of weddings today tends to be about 8 years later, after college? That's a lot of years to battle very strong temptations. Paul told us to marry if we burn -- not struggle and set ourselves up for guilt and other issues by delaying marriage for 8 years or more past the age that those issues make themselves known. (I'm not speaking to the fact that there are a number of Christian men and women not WANTING to delay marriage much longer than that but not being able to marry for a number of reasons). I'm fully aware that 99% of high schoolers are not at all ready to be married because of maturity levels in our culture -- but doesn't it seem sort of sad that we grow up so much later and create unnecessary sexual issues from a 10-year+ gap between having sexual desires and being able to fully express them? What if we had a world where 15-year olds were mature enough to support a family and could hope to have sex within a God-honoring marital context within a year or so, instead of falling to tempation because marriage seems so far away? I know that sounds completely crazy and not at all practical, but it's something to think about. :)

55. Jo had the following to say on Dec 19 at 6:08 PM:

Mike Theemling: the only part I disagree with is the 'moving out the moment you finish college' thing. Get a job and contribute to your living costs sure, but I think actually in 'this day and age' it's often wise to stay at home for a while, IF you're saving and planning ahead to move out.

You also imply living with a roommate is kind of a less-than-ideal situation (especially if they are a 'crutch') - I can tell you honestly, there is no way on earth I would be able to afford to live alone. When I worked full-time (before starting my MA) I was a careworker, a worthwhile job but not a well paid one, and if I didn't have flatmate I literally wouldn't have survived financially on my wage, with the rent costs where I live.

My view: if you can afford to move out, by all means do, but if you can't, it shows maturity to accept that and stay at home for a while, paying your way and saving hard, until you do.

56. Kellie had the following to say on Dec 19 at 6:19 PM:

With this post as an exception, I've gotten the vibe from other Boundless posts that marriage/kids=maturity.

57. Patricia had the following to say on Dec 19 at 7:00 PM:

I think the question of living at home is really individual. I've known some people who live at home after finishing school and help their parents with chores, housework, etc, are financially responsible, and are spiritually mature. I've known people who live independently who are not. I see it as a problem if a married couple lives with the parents-unless they are caregivers to aging parents. I think there is a dangerous tendancy to equate adulthood with individualism in the US. People who are individualistic and self supporting may appear mature adults but part of being an adult is also being part of a family, community, and wider world. This means supporting loved ones in real self sacrificial ways.

58. Paul had the following to say on Dec 19 at 7:58 PM:

Just one question. Why does marriage=maturity? guess what, there's millions of immature married folks out there.

And secondly, could the "failure to launch" trend be an after-effect of increasing life-expectancy? After all, in the Lord of the Rings, it was the "tweens" that were the irresponsible years.

59. BDB had the following to say on Dec 19 at 10:41 PM:

Kelly wrote:

>>There's nothing more awful than coming home to an empty place night after night (God made us for community).<<

Yes there is - coming home to fighting and tension is worse. It's really nice to leave a stressful day at work and know - beyond any shadow of a doubt - that home will be peaceful.

Actually, after I finished college my parents offered to let me move back home. I was perplexed by this, because years earlier my father told me how my grandfather told him after college, "Just remember that from now on, when you're in my house, you're a guest." I always assumed I was expected to support myself immediately after college - I had a job within a month, though I discovered in just a few months that it would be very, very difficult to make enough money to do everything that I was supposed to do (get a new car, buy a house, etc.) It took years before I could manage my money well enough to buy a house.

60. Mike Theemling had the following to say on Dec 20 at 6:55 AM:

Jo,

From the sounds of it, you probably don't live in the United States (because very few here use the term "flatmate", or even "flat" for that case. Most likely you live in the UK if I were to guess).

Given that, I do understand your position and you are probably right that on your wage it would probably be impossible to find a place to live alone. I did state that in other places like China that adult children DO live with their parents until they married and it's often in big cities and usually because of costs.

However, in the United States, that is often not the case. Even if we assumed a minimum wage unless the individual lives in a very expensive part of a city (and what's to say they can't move) low cost housing is usually available. And I also stated that roommates (er, flatmates sorry) are perfectly acceptable so long as the intention is to eventually find your own place.

Those that often complain, "But it's too expensive to live on my own" are usually those who are used to their affluent lifestyle of daily lattes from a coffeeshop, latest electronics, and new clothes every month (I use these examples as hyperbole). Sorry, but 2 generations ago people as a whole didn't have that attitude. They lived within their means and made do with whatever they had. They went to Thrift Stores, made their own coffee, and waited for that new iPod until Christmas.

Given this situation, I find it the exception rather than the rule that adult children who do live at home with their parents do so with maturity with the full intent to move out as soon as possible and are saving their money rather than spending it on luxuries.

Hope that clears up my position.

61. Emily Shepherd had the following to say on Dec 20 at 9:46 AM:

BDB ~ What you say about it being worse to come home to fighting and tension than to be alone illustrates what I mean about some of the things marriage forces you to deal with. NO marriage is free from fighting and tension at times -- times of conflict and tension are a guarantee when two individuals (who are also both sinners) are being upfront and honest about their opinions, desires, feelings, etc (often couples that don't fight are the ones where at least one person is afraid of conflict and suppress their true feelings to keep the peace, which usually leads to resentment and disunion down the line -- though I think these conflicts happen less and less frequently the longer you are married and the more you have become "one").

There have been many evenings when I drove home from work knowing that we were in conflict and it was not going to be a peaceful evening and yes, I wasn't super excited about that, to say the last. There have been other evenings that started out peaceful and somehow ended up with us fighting. And of course there have been many wonderful evenings when we've felt googly-eyed in love. But the reality of the situation is that we're going to have both good and bad times, and I have to accept that. To be honest, I have a hard time accepting that sometimes (one of my still-immature qualities). Of course I want every evening to be peaceful and happy and like a fairy tale. But it's not. Life is not like that, and marriage is a great classroom to learn that truth.

When you live alone, yes, you do not have to deal with coming home to tension, which is really nice! Both my husband and I admit that sometimes we miss the consistent, fun, relatively care-free nature of our single lives, becuase a lot of things were just easier then. But you also don't learn how to deal with conflict with a person that you have pledged your life to. You don't learn how to persevere when the going gets tough because you said you would, how to forgive someone who loves you but will hurt you from time to time, or the importance of humbling yourself in a conflict to do what's right for the good of the marriage. And there's nothing wrong with not having to deal with that -- it's the nature of singleness!! Anyone will tell you that you don't get married with those skills -- you learn them during the times that are hard. And that hurts, and it's ha

I Don't Want To Grow Up by Denise Morris on Dec 18, 2007 at 11:12 AM

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I Don't Want To Grow Up
by Denise Morris on Dec 18, 2007 at 11:12 AM