Homemaking, a High Aspiration
by Candice Watters on 11/02/2007 at 2:21 PM
In view of my discussion of Heather's article, and her winsome argument for biblically distinct roles for men and women, I was especially interested in a short piece on World On the Web. In Majoring in Homemaking, Alisa Harris reports briefly on the much-discussed homemaking concentration (part of the humanities degree) at Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary.
"Men make decisions; women make dinner," quipped one reporter about the philosophy of such a course of study. Based on that quote, it's obvious to me that said reporter has never run a home. Or at least not well. It's hard to imagine a job that requires more quick-witted decision making, management, and multi-tasking skills. Add to that the droves of women who grew up in homes where mothers despised their roles and did everything possible to run from home-based responsibilities, including the all- important transmission of know-how to their watching daughters. Cooking and cleaning aren't simple-minded tasks that require no previous experience. It takes a lot of practice to get good at both (for evidence, see Cheryl Mendelson's Home Comforts).
While it may be overkill to get a Bachelor's degree in domesticity, it's certainly understandable why women who aspire to be mothers and housewives might look to their university to offer a few classes on the subject. (They offer classes on seemingly everything else.) And it is only a few classes. The elective concentration only requires 21 of 129 total credit hours be spent on homemaking courses.
Still the program is, in many minds, pointless, groundless, and insulting. According to the World report, "Rebecca Merrill Groothuis, author of Good News for Women: A Biblical Picture of Gender Equality, told WoW that while both men and women should know how to manage a home, 'homemaking is not an academic discipline.'" I wonder if Groothuis, or any of the other critics of Southwestern's program, are as outspoken about the classes ranging from "Cyberfeminism," to "Adultery Novel," to "Blackness," that are all the rage on American campuses.
Sadly, it's Groothuis's misrepresentation of this program -- and the worldview that informs it -- that is most troubling. She went on to say that "if women's purpose is to serve men and men have decision-making authority over women, then it 'logically entails that women are not equal but are necessarily and intrinsically inferior to men.'"
It's hard to see how learning to run an efficient, orderly, economical and healthy home have anything to do with subservience and inferiority. Now if you want to talk about courses on S&M and pornography, you'd be on to something.
1. Christina said the following at 2:32 PM on Nov 2
No, not academic material, but like you said most of our mothers were running away from it and not willing to teach "watching daughters".
So, I guess we have to learn somewhere...
The other point you make, seriously - I don't know any other place on earth where you have to have more versatility than in managing a home (and I haven't had the oppurtunity to do it full time yet!).
From Accountant to chef, Day care provider to educator, managing a household IS a full time responsibility and a challenging one, too :)
Why do we have to be considered inferior to aspire to excel at this??? Because sitting at my desk typing engineering requirements into a database while my management makes all the decisions that govern my life without any care as to who I am is somehow superior?
2. j said the following at 2:56 PM on Nov 2
random question: is this course being offered to everyone, or is it being promoted only to a target audience? I think EVERYONE needs to know how to run their home---male or female. What happens if the woman was assuming all the responsibilities of running the home and suddenly got sick? maybe i'm liberal, but I thought the ability the run a home in a economic, healthy, efficient, orderly home speaks more to maturity than gender roles. Idk, call me crazy.
3. sandra said the following at 2:58 PM on Nov 2
homemaking classes? hmm, isn't it a mother's role to teach her daughter the basics of running a home?
4. Kellie said the following at 3:02 PM on Nov 2
"We're confusing 1950s culture with the teaching of Scripture," said Wade Burleson, a Southern Baptist pastor in Oklahoma. -in the LA times article about the courses at SBC. I think that sums it up well.
5. Kellie said the following at 3:03 PM on Nov 2
Also the classes are only open to women.
6. John D. said the following at 3:07 PM on Nov 2
Actually, I know a few men who would benefit from that type of instruction.
7. Adam Sloope said the following at 3:11 PM on Nov 2
When I first moved to Indianpolis last year, I stayed with some friends. We did not have work for 6 weeks so we (Carl & I) were able to stay at home with Danae and the kids. After 3 weeks Carl & I told her we were going to start volunteering somewhere because we could not take this stay at home stuff. Kudos to homemakers, I'd rather work than do it. I agree there should be training, maybe not a degree, but training. This is probably one of the most underappreciated and understood jobs in the world. I'm glad I was able to see it in action, I have a new respect for homemakers and pray that God blesses me with a great wife to organize the home, because i'd much rather "bring home the bacon" lol.
8. Jo said the following at 3:11 PM on Nov 2
The sad thing about the so-called 'empowerment' of women, is that it does anything but empower them to be home-makers, if that's what they want to be. (I much prefer that American term, by the way, to our English 'housewife'.) Women are supposed to have more ambition now, we're supposed to have bigger goals. Bigger goals than raising the next generation of human beings?
I was saddened and disappointed when in equality and diversity' training at work, the trainer mentioned the percentage of women who go back to work within a year of having a child (I forget the figure, but the point was it had dramatically increased over the last few years), to appreciative noises and murmurs of "Oh, that's good". That's not good! It's not good that many women now HAVE to go back to work in order to make ends meet, and it's not good that this new kind of slavery seems to us a freedom!
A woman who now has society telling her she shouldn't be sexually pure, or submit to her husband's authority, or commit herself to raising Godly children, and yet STILL CHOOSES TO DO THESE THINGS, is a woman who is truly empowered.
9. Ted Slater said the following at 3:11 PM on Nov 2
I wonder what percentage of Homemaking majors marry either during their time at college or shortly thereafter.
If marriage is a priority for you, and you envision yourself as a stay-at-home mother, this might be just the degree to "help it happen." And that is nothing to scoff at. Marriage is a good thing, and those who desire and pursue it are not to be belittled.
10. nikki said the following at 3:31 PM on Nov 2
I think it's overboard to have a set of classes that teach you how to manage a home. For one thing, men need to know this stuff too...maybe not as much if they will end up with a good wife (and how would they know that now?), but they need to know how to iron their own shirts and make their own food and pay the bills and make sure all the Jrs. are taken care of. It's a huge job, and it takes practice to do it well. Maybe some general management or budgeting classes are well and good. But I doubt what's offered in this class is anything that a little hard work and practice wouldn't get you - for free! Some people think they need to have everything handed to them.
And yeah, moms definitely need to make sure their sons and daughters know how to run homes. I know quite a few bachelors that could use a few lessons in basic cleanliness and orderliness, and it shouldn't be their poor future wives' responsibility to clean up the trail of dishes and garbage left by a messy husband. (Also, who's going to want to marry such a mess in the first place? :)) Management skills start now, even if you're living in your folks' basement or have cardboard furniture or are male. Take care of yourself and your possessions and manage your budget and your living space. That's life.
11. Jess @ Making Home said the following at 3:53 PM on Nov 2
Sadly, this kind of course is necessary because the Titus 2 model has been all but forgotten by older women. Mothers AREN'T teaching their daughters to cook, sew, keep house, and raise children.
How do I know? Because me and most of my friends got to this stage (I'm pregnant with my fourth), and were CLUELESS how to do basic things. Things that 13 year olds used to know how to do.
Yes, sadly, this kind of course is VERY necessary, which is why the students requested it. This was not an institution-implemented idea. The young wives of seminary students strongly requested these courses and this course of study, and so it has been provided.
Kudos to them for seeing a need and meeting it, regardless of what anyone else has to say about it.
Jess @ Making Home
12. Courtney P. said the following at 4:22 PM on Nov 2
Jo's comment I think sums it up. Well written and well thought out.
13. Jethro said the following at 4:33 PM on Nov 2
Is there a parallel set of classes teaching men how to mow the lawn, change a light bulb and prune a tree? Talk about the dumbing down of college.
14. DT said the following at 4:42 PM on Nov 2
I have a feeling the people commenting here who are bucking against the classes are people who are not homemakers and don't know how beneficial these classes would have been to those of us who are. Just a hunch. :)
15. k. said the following at 4:42 PM on Nov 2
I think homemaking is a difficult job and deserves respect. However, I'm leery of it being an academic course. First of all, homemaking skills are useful for men and women...targeting these classes solely toward women makes me uneasy. Secondly, although homemaking is a worthy calling, I'm not convinced it belongs in universities. Homemaking's skill sets are, in large part, hands-on and non-academic. I somehow doubt that Southwestern plans to begin providing similar vocational concentrations for men, such as auto repair or woodworking.
I read the article from the LA Times that Kellie mentioned (by Stephanie Simon, titled "They love to do their homework"). Here's another excerpt:
Many male graduate students at Southwestern take a class in masculine leadership, where they are admonished to put their wives' needs before their own even as they flex their authority. But there's no broader curriculum on a husband's role, leading Dusty Deevers, 30, to wonder what he and other male students might be missing. Labs on mowing the lawn? Trimming hedges? Balancing a checkbook? "Many, many men would be well-served by something like that," Deevers said.
Andy Cecrle, 42, takes it one step further: He would like to see a homemaking class for men, or at least a survival boot camp. He happens to know his way around the house and is proud that he changes his children's diapers. But he knows many guys don't even have a clue how to start the washer.
"What if my wife is sick and my kids need clean clothes? It may not hurt to have some basic tips," Cecrle said. Then he added cautiously: "A lot of people would take great exception to what I'm saying."
Felts is one of them. The whole point of taking college-level homemaking, she said, is to ensure that her husband won't ever feel that he has to darn a sock or do the laundry. Those are her jobs.
16. Kellie said the following at 4:43 PM on Nov 2
Ted,
I would argue that marriage and homemaking are two different things. A woman doesn't have to be a homemaker to be a wife.
I don't like the tone at boundless that working women don't value their family/marriage. I work hard, both at work and home. I do my best to serve the Lord. I do what I think is best for my family.
17. Patricia said the following at 5:18 PM on Nov 2
It's not an appropriate class because women do not belong in seminary, period. Homemaking can be taught through a mentorship program.
18. Amir Larijani said the following at 5:37 PM on Nov 2
It's a pretty sad commentary on our society when we feel we have to offer a program in homemaking at a SEMINARY. I mean good grief...one should not need to go to college (or seminary) to learn these things.
19. Jacob MacTierney said the following at 6:39 PM on Nov 2
It is definitely important that both husband and wife know how to manage a household. At times when my mother has been seriously sick the house has slowly fallen into a state of disaster.
I would say that gender roles are a luxury which cannot always be afforded.
One thing that strikes me as a bit odd that a husband is expected to do just as much domestic work as his wife. In most of these cases he has been busy at paid work most of the day. In that case it is hardly a fair division of labor.
Just my 2 wooden nickels.
20. Courtney P. said the following at 7:07 PM on Nov 2
Jo's comment pretty much sums it up. I think the comment is well thougt out.
21. Krystal said the following at 7:23 PM on Nov 2
I have to agree with Jo, “The sad thing about the so-called 'empowerment' of women, is that it does anything but empower them to be home-makers, if that's what they want to be. ..Women are supposed to have more ambition now, we're supposed to have bigger goals. Bigger goals than raising the next generation of human beings?” as it very well describes the argument I have made. Personally, I wish we had classes like this available. I can't sew, my cooking is limited, etc. I am an education major and these things would come in handy just for that! Furthermore, I would LOVE to stay home when I get married. I have pleaded to have classes where I can learn some basic Home Economic type skills. I think it is sad that we are no longer passing these skills on. My mother couldn't teach me because her mother didn't teach her. I want to be able to teach my daughter and plan to find someone who can teach me one day. The reason I chose Education though was in preparation for marriage (and there is nothing cuter than kids and it uses my skills). I may not be married when I get out of school (men aren't pursuing me yet anyway) and I need to be able to support myself. Furthermore, if something did happen to my husband (that I hope will be in my future) like a job injury that would make him unable to work or heaven forbid if he died then I would need to be able to support my family. I do not like the idea of only majoring in that for that reason. We have way too many working poor who cannot survive on minimum wage jobs. I feel bad for anyone who doesn't have a college degree to get a better one and has to support their family. I think being prepared (even if it never happens) to support your family is just as much a part of my role as a woman. I am uniquely designed by God to have special skills and I will use those in either my future job or in my marriage. Praise the Lord!
22. Chris said the following at 8:05 PM on Nov 2
From the Boston Globe article:
"the glorious inequalities of life."
I'm sorry, but that just sets off my Orwellian radar like crazy. Subservience is freedom.....
That said, I agree with others. Why does this have to be limited to women? Why not teach men table manners or how to cook, sew, take care of a home, etc.? I remember asking my mom how to do laundry before I went to college. She wrote down some notes that helped me not turn all my laundry into one bland color. My wife and I share cooking duties. It's nice to be able to say, "Can you cook tonight" and know you're going to get something better than macaroni and cheese.
I also saw a comment about teaching people how to raise children. Unless you come from a large family in which you as the elder child had to help raise small children, none of this stuff is worth it or even possible. I went to several parenting/child rearing classes with my wife when she was pregnant with our first child. Absolutely useless unless they actually use a small child. Putting a diaper on a doll is a piece of cake. Learning to put it on a screaming, squirming 2 month old is something you have to muddle through yourself to figure it out. And that's just the mechanics! Parenting is one those things you have to learn on your own.
23. Miah said the following at 8:07 PM on Nov 2
This type of schooling is necessary, because as Jess @ Making Home said, "Mothers AREN'T teaching their daughters to cook, sew, keep house, and raise children." Thankfully my mom taught my sisters and I how to manage a house and made sure we knew how to by the time we graduated high school.
Sadly, there are many people in the world who don't see how becoming a wife and a stay-at-home mom can be fulfilling or see it as any kind of a goal. I think this has been lost amidst the feminist movements and the reality that not many women are staying home and raising their families, therefore not many of this generation see it as important.
My mother was a stay-at-home mom and from her example and others like her, I can see no other job that is as rewarding than that of a wife and stay-at-home mom. Granted, it is not easy, I don't know that any job is harder, mentally, emotionally and physically, but the joys of being a housewife, far outweigh the lows that the job (yes, job) bring on.
24. Margot Sandifer said the following at 8:10 PM on Nov 2
I know Cheryl Mendelson, author of the compendious "Home Comforts," and do you know she is a secular former attorney?
While she has true expertise in homemaking, I doubt she would appreciate being used as an example of female servitude, or as an argument that all women must master the things that are her particular interests.
The book is clear that it is for those who want to learn, not a mandatory training manual for all women.
If a woman writes a book on parachuting, running for office, or jumping off a bridge, it doesn't mean we all need to do those things also. Even if our grandmothers were forced to.
(And keep in mind that -- like any task -- what is a pleasure for a person to discover on her own can be terrible drudgery when unchosen and mandatory).
25. BDB said the following at 12:07 AM on Nov 3
First, let me say that I looked up the curriculum. It's really a humanities degree that has a ton of history (60 units) Bible and theology (24 units) history of ideas (24 units) and then electives - or the concentration in homemaking. So, someone gives up their electives to do a concentration in homemaking, education or music.
Really, it's a degree designed so that women can keep up with their husbands going to seminary. I have some good friends who graduated from SWBTS. They both did graduate degrees - he did a bigger degree than she did. But their philosophy is quite simple: couples are called to ministry together. Whether you like it or not, a pastor's wife needs some preparation to be able to serve effectively in ministry. Maybe she doesn't need an M.Div. (Though, SWBTS actually tried to convince my friend's wife to do her PhD and become a professor. That's another discussion.)
There are some women gifted in music - a music concentration would be great for them. Some are gifted in teaching - what better than a concentration in education to run the Sunday School program at a fledgling church? But what about women with the gift of hospitality? No training for them? Indeed, there's a lot of couples seeking counseling because they were totally unprepared for the day-to-day domestic requirements of marriage. It's very realistic to think that the pastor's wife could help some of these folks out if they had some real training in homemaking - they will be prepared to teach those skills, not just take care of their own home.
My grandmother was the President of the Extension Homemaker's association a couple of decades ago. Their main purpose was teaching basic skills to rural women who had no clue - canning, gardening, cooking - all those kinds of things. The exact same skills that social workers now try to teach the poor. Social Work is considered a profession, isn't it?
And it also left me thinking about all the potlucks, receptions, and other food-oriented events that happen in churches. A pastor's wife with some training will be better prepared to organize people at these events.
The concentration includes a class in clothing construction...who is supposed to make those costumes for the children's ministry plays, anyway? Heck, I took a stagecraft class in high school. Sure, it probably hurt my college applications. But I can build a set and light it (and do the sound). And yes, I've volunteered in that ministry at church from time to time over the years.
Chris wrote:
>>That said, I agree with others. Why does this have to be limited to women? Why not teach men table manners or how to cook, sew, take care of a home, etc.?<<
Hmmm...to get my Eagle Scout, I had to complete 21 different merit badges, including Personal Management (required a personal budget and gave me a taste of the future MBA), Cooking, Gardening, Emergency Preparedness, Safety,(required a safety inspection of the home), First Aid...those are pretty home-oriented. Though they did also prepare me for the OSHA class at work.
My Environmental Studies and Soil and Water Conservation merit badges were my foundation for my Environmental Studies minor in college.
My Citizenship in the Community, Nation and World merit badges gave me a start on my Political Science major.
Communication and Electricity merit badges...HA! I worked in cable advertising.
Backpacking, Camping, Canoeing, Swimming and Wilderness Survival merit badges...well, you get the point. Giving people a taste of something, whether a merit badge or undergraduate class, is a good way to uncover hidden strengths.
http://meritbadge.org/wiki/index.php?title=Merit_Badges
http://meritbadge.org/wiki/index.php?title=Eagle_Scout
26. Jo said the following at 12:28 AM on Nov 3
I agree that men need this kind of training as much as women, but I think it should happen earlier. Basics in cooking, childcare etc should be mandatory in school, just as I think first aid should be too. We're too focused on the academic, I think, often to the detriment of the practical.
That said, I agree that ideally children and young people should learn these skills in the home - but I for one wasn't interested in this stuff when I was younger. I had 'chores', but I also was more focused on the academic stuff I was learning at school. It wasn't 'til I moved out 18 months ago that I suddenly had to develop these skills for myself, and I've done so naturally since then. My cooking is now pretty good. :)
A basic grounding in 'life skills' I think would be useful for all, but much of this stuff is developed as you go along. The odd thing is that college courses are usually there to train and qualify you for paid work, whereas this would not lead to a particular job (although it would be useful for some), rather it would naturally lead to home-making. Useful, but perhaps more suited to evening classes for example, than a degree course? Just my thoughts.
27. Justice said the following at 1:03 AM on Nov 3
This should be titled:
How to scare the crap out of people that are sane.
Seriously, Ted, Motte, how did you let this one slide. Universities already waste our times with Gen ed when we should be taking more classes in our major, why should taxes pay for this? Ah, you are right, we also waste money on sending illegal immigrants to college in Cali
28. Patricia said the following at 7:04 AM on Nov 3
Sure, some of the practical skills might be useful. But I agree that both men and women would benefit from these skills. Furthermore, as someone who teaches at a university, I don't think this is a college level curriculum. This is vocation training at best-college is about teaching independent thinking, analytical skills, etc and not specific tasks. This course would be best offered at the high school level-aka home economics.
29. Anne said the following at 9:59 AM on Nov 3
Sign me up!
It takes me waaaayyy too long to do any housework, from laundry to cooking to cleaning because I'm always second guessing myself, and looking over the instructions super carefully.
I can write a two - four page essay arguing your choice of topic in less than an hour, with in text citations and a bibliography.
Perhaps if I get married someday, I can feed my children rhetoric:)
30. xeres said the following at 10:13 AM on Nov 3
Justice,
What do you think college should be about? I understand it can be tedious. However, the benefit of general ed is it makes the student more well-rounded, to pursue vitrue (excellence) and value in whatever subject in hope to find out what is the right way to live. The thing is as far as I am concern, most of universities, even Christian Universities, are becoming too utilitarian and segragated, ended up straying the pursue virtue and have them live a life.
31. Esther said the following at 10:27 AM on Nov 3
Why does all the education have to happen in school or university?
Ideally, mothers should train their children in these skills. My mom made sure that I, my sisters and my brother all know how to cook, clean and sew. We were also "farmed out" to various aunts and uncles for summers when we were teenagers, which allowed us to live in and experience other home situations, and help take care of younger cousins (good child care practice!).
OK, so what if some parents aren't capable of passing that instruction on to their kids; whether because they don't know it themselves, or through broken or single parent homes (i.e. no father present to teach a son how to change the oil, etc.)?
How about the role of the local church? Shouldn't the elders and older men be coming alongside the young men, not just in accountability, but also in mentoring and training? And older women? Wouldn't it be beneficial for the women's ministry to recognize this need, and provide opportunities for young wives and mothers (or just young women & teens in general) to observe a well-run home, or go over a grocery budget, or have a weekly class or club focused on developing these skills? Sometimes churches act as if their role ends at Bible studies and potlucks, yet we do so much more to encourage and empower our young families if we give them the tools they need to survive in this anti-family climate.
I don't see that the argument should be whether it is the "man's role" or the "woman's role"-- families are suffering from poor money management, poor nutrition, poor discipline/ child-rearing skills and it doesn't have to be that way.
32. xeres said the following at 10:31 AM on Nov 3
BTW, Amir is right; these skills need to be learned through experience and living a life, not necessarily at a seminary or college. Unfortunately, too many us don't know how to live a life to do this, which many educational institutions aren't as helpful as the matter as they used be especially when pursuing wisdom is no longer a priority in those places. I don't mean to hard but this is not something to be ignored.
33. Douglas Groothuis said the following at 11:50 AM on Nov 3
1. If you read Rebecca Merrill Groothuis's book, "Women in the Conflict," you will find that she is no supporter of secular or pagan feminism. What you wrote was a cheap shot, with no logical value. One cannot speak out on everything all the time. If asked to comment on immoral and irrational material (such as you mentioned), she would do so by condemning it. She had the opportunity to respond to the situation at Southwestern and did so. To assume that she cares nothing about other topics is unwarranted and false.
2. There are many partnerships of equality in life that function just fine, such as equal partners in business and the relationship of best friends. These require no hierarchy and no one pulling rank. Why think that is necessary in marriage?
3. If you really want to think through this issue of "Equal in being; unequal in function," read chapter 18 of "Discovering Biblical Equality," where Rebeccca rigorously argues that it is illogical.
34. julieH said the following at 12:49 PM on Nov 3
Patricia,
From your first comment... Women don't belong at seminary? Why not? I'm in seminary at SBTS doing an MDIV Worship, and in fact, there are more women now enrolled in the MDIV at Southern than at any other time in history, according to one of my professors...
Now that I've actually researched it, I'm not sure what the big deal is about a seminary offering a homemaking concentration for their bachelors degree in humanities. 23 credits out of 129 for the concentration is only about 18% of the courseload, and at least 27 different secular schools offer home economics degrees.
35. Justice said the following at 3:26 PM on Nov 3
xerses,
Well, after taking two years of general ed, I moved on to a university and then had to take an additional 16 units of general ed. Whereas in Europe, schools don't have you waste so much time on general ed, you get straight to the point.
I'm not quite sure what you mean by being segregated, but isn't that what the first two years of gen ed are for, taking classes that force you to mingle with others?
With that in mind, as a business student, I had to fire the only non-business student in one of my projects this quarter...
36. ben said the following at 3:48 PM on Nov 3
Assuming the cost of a credit hour is around $300 (a complete guess), is someone really willing to defend the notion that spending $7,000 on graduate education to learn how to cook, clean, sew, etc. is a good thing? I don't see how that can possibly be considered good stewardship of God's money. It seems to me there are numerous ways to get a better "education" for much less. Lots of fabric stores offer sewing classes at a reasonable price (plus you get discounts on fabric, supplies, and sewing machines). Cooking comes with practice, asking others for good recipes, and if that fails, surely one can find a mentor at their church to take them under his/her wing. As for a class on budgeting, don't waste your money. Spend $200 and go work with a financial planner once a year and let them teach you how to budget, along with giving advice on investing, retirement, health care, etc. .
37. Jethro said the following at 4:19 PM on Nov 3
Justice,
Colleges now days teach people more and more about less and less. You sound like you want this to go further. I say we need to go the opposite way. Make college students learn about history (world history, not just American), logic and philosophy. Then we might have graduates who can actually think for themselves and adapt, rather than those who spent four years studying the geometric layout of roof tiles in Hindu temples circa 400BC.
38. BDB said the following at 4:53 PM on Nov 3
Piling on...
You know, in my family, everyone was expected to cook, just like everyone was expected to go to college. I took one cooking class when I was 9. That's where I learned that all you had to do was read the recipe and follow the instructions. OK, we learned how to do the math on all the measurements, too. But after that, it was just a matter of practice, learning how to use multiple appliances to time things to come out at the right time, etc. The concentration has one class (counts as a lab!) where I'm betting people do all these things. And you can get a culinary degree. I don't see why Cooking 101 should be laughed at as a college class.
Then there's a design class. One class. Again, you can get a college degree in designing and decorating a space. Anyone who has served on a church building committee knows what it's like when a bunch of men try to decorate a building. That's why my church has a basketball court for a sanctuary. I'm not kidding. The pastor's current assistant has a background in design and subsequent building projects at church look a lot better.
(Heck - a new little office at work was set up by men. You should have heard the women complain about the mustard paint, gray carpet and maroon furniture. I'm not a moron. When I moved two offices at work I was smart enough to let the women working in those offices pick the color scheme and carpet. And it costs the same to have colors people like.)
Whenever someone asks me if I miss home cooked meals I remind them that women my age can't cook. Well, they can use the microwave, just not from ingredients. I have a set of gourmet knives and I know how to use them...
39. Ame said the following at 7:57 PM on Nov 3
It is uncommon for these skills to be passed down to our children anymore.
I have yet to see the church, in general, teach necessary skills when there is a need ... rather they are more judgemental that one does not possess these skills.
I don't have a problem with what is offered.
Yes, it would be beneficial for men to have the knowledge of these skills, too ... there are times when they need to have something to draw from when having to jump into the homemaking role or when sharing the role, ie: wife has a difficult pregnancy and is put to bed (this is more common that you think ... I know quite a few ... and all had previous children); child is hospitalized and Mom is needed to stay with child in hospital (again, more common than you think, and there are other children at home); Mom is actually sick; a family member is in great need and wife is able to help meet that need ... death in family, new baby, illnesses; etc.
If, indeed, the women requested such courses, it's because there is a need. Also, these skills and the flexibility within these skills are so necessary on the mission field.
Another topic mentioned in the thread ... the SAHM vs the working mom. You know, that's a really hard one. SAHM's often take a lot of hits from those with working mom's in the home, and vice versa. Both are really hard jobs. It's sad that society has forced a place where it is practically expected for women to work and have a career outside the home.
All of my life I have wanted to be a wife and mother. I LOVE being a SAHM. I am thankful that this is so because, given the nature of each of my girls and the special needs of one, it is most beneficial for them that I am home with them. Hard? Always. But I love it and am thankful to be able to be flexible.
Most working moms that I know tell me they could never do what I do. Most SAHM's wish they had coffee breaks and could wear nice clothes every once in awhile and not have an assortment of body fluids from little ones or various food, dirt, or unknown things attach to their garments, or to have their clothing stretched out b/c little ones reach for Momma and grab onto their clothing!
Marriage is hard.
Working together in marriage is hard.
Balancing who does what within marriage is hard.
Having children is hard.
Raising children is hard.
Managing a home is hard.
It's nice to have help available.
40. Miah said the following at 10:28 PM on Nov 3
Ame, I completely agree with your comments ("It is uncommon for these skills to be passed down to our children anymore.") above!! 100% agree! That is where I stand on the issue and I too think that society has put pressure on and looked down upon the SAHM, because she does not get 'material payment' for her job. Yes, wearing nice clothes instead of baby spit-up would be nice, but when looking back on it all, one will be glad that the nice clothes were gone and the baby is now grown up and living life on their own, because of how you raised them.
41. xeres said the following at 10:58 PM on Nov 3
For once Jethro, we are in agreement on something ;D. Going to college isn't about just preparing for a career. While I'll admit general ed can be tedious, they can teach you something that will be useful for leading a life of virtue.
42. Patricia2ndPoster said the following at 6:13 AM on Nov 4
Juliet-
I actually only wrote the second post by Patricia. Sorry for the confusion. I believe women belong in seminary programs-but I think homemaking programs are vocational and belong at the high school not college level and should be offered to men and women.
43. Amanda said the following at 1:56 PM on Nov 4
Every man should know how to do laundry, cook and clean a house before he leaves home.
So should every woman, obviously, but I think meen in general don't get taught this stuff.
I have two brothers and they cook better than me sometimes. We've all been doing our own laundry for several years. They know how to change diapers and take care of kids and clean a house and budget their money.
These are skills everypne should have, whether or not they plan to marry and have kids.
If nothing else, you can use those skills to be a blessing to others in your life.
44. Bethany D. said the following at 2:11 PM on Nov 4
I think having home-making classes available is awesome! I would much rather take a class I will use every day for the rest of my life than a random elective chosen for ease and 'fun'ness. I would want them available to guys too though; the large family my husband & I hope to have will be much easier to handle if he can pitch in to help when I'm down for the count.
BDB: awesome posts. I chose to major in "Hospitality Business Management" because A) it's insurance for being able to find a job to support myself (& my husband & potential kids) should I ever need to and B) many of my classes taught me skills applicable to running a house and helping my church. I've learned basic nutrition, cooking, cost controls & budgeting, working on a team, presenting ideas, interpersonal skills, event planning, time management, and more. I'm not sure that I would claim to have "the gift of hospitality" but at least I've strengthened the mite of it I have to offer.
45. kaarina said the following at 6:36 AM on Nov 5
One of the saddest things to me is that as feminism becomes more and more successful at pushing women out of their own homes (psychologically, at least, if not physically) that women seem to more and more crave a life at home and at peace, which it seems they have not been equipped to find.
I'll put this up there as "proof that women need equal human rights, not a superiority complex" along with the popularity of Martha Stewart, magazines like Real Simple, the countless books catering to women who can't clean or organize or manage their family time, and the fact we have a whole cable channel devoted to the exteriors of home life (houses and decorating).
I feel blessed that my parents have taught me that when I feel the calling for a home, I am to pursue that, just as much as I am to pursue a college degree and a career in the historical field. I know many women who feel the pressure to totally abandon homemaking.
46. Loris said the following at 8:49 AM on Nov 5
I am a working wife, and I absolutely agree that husbands should be able to jump in and take over household duties if necessary. I learned to cook by being my working mother's (She went back to teaching part time after I was school-age) galley slave since I was strong enough to mix ingredients in a bowl. When she went to nurse my grandmother in her last weeks, dad and I lived on hot dogs and french toast, since that was his entire cooking repertoire. I'm making sure to show my husband some quick and easy meals that he can fix if I'm ever out of town or sick. He was raised to think that cooking is women's work, since his mother and sisters do the cooking and his dad cleans up, but I've found that if the recipe involves canned veggies and ground beef, he does pretty well.
47. Andrew R. (aka Canadian Boy) said the following at 9:08 AM on Nov 5
Considering that I have no idea what I want to do once I get out of university, stay-at-home-dad looks rather enticing at the minute.
48. Clavem Abyssi said the following at 10:30 AM on Nov 5
The problem with homemaking as a profession is that it has not adapted with technology. In centuries past, home-making was no more of a drudgery than a man's job, which was almost always repetitious, strenuous and dirty. It was also no less necessary, since a woman's service and industry in the home was irreplaceable.
The issue arises in the mid-20th century, when mass production eliminated the need for many home-making tasks, and technology reduced the workload of many housewives. For instance, who darns socks and quilts these days, except as entertainment? Who makes candles, churns butter, bakes bread, etc... except as a luxury? Who carries water to the house, keeps the fire going in the hearth, keeps a pot of broth boiling all day long? All of these things either were replaced by mass production or facilitated with technology. And yet, any family that went without these things, would live a very poor life indeed.
The only thing that has stayed constant is child-rearing, and even this, with modern contraception and automobiles, day cares, etc..., is becoming less and less essential and time-consuming.
So, depending on how much one values child-rearing, home-making as a profession either makes no sense at all, or there is a tension between working outside and inside the home.
This problem can be partially rectified by leveraging technology to fill in the "profitability gap" that has existed since the mid-20th century. There is no reason why a home-maker cannot literally make the home: learn basic plumbing, electrical, carpentry, construction, land-scaping, &c... In prior centuries, this was not possible, because women generally lack the strength for these tasks. In our age of electric, wireless tools, this is no longer an issue. This would restore the dignity and profitability that was once pertained to home-making.
An obstacle to this is the silly notion that women are fragile, delicate and better suited to white collar jobs, one of the few negative things that came about in the 50's. How untrue and disrespectful to the mothers of our forefathers! One need only think of that intrepid and godly woman described in Proverbs 31!
49. Laura said the following at 1:10 PM on Nov 5
Candice, one of the biggest issues Southern Baptists have with the homemaking degree is not related to views of gender roles or the wife's position as a helpmate, but rather whether Southwestern Seminary is the appropriate institution to be offering these sorts of degrees (or any undergraduate degrees for that matter). Baptists who give money to support seminaries through the Cooperative Program expect their dollars to be used to train ministers and missionaries of the Gospel, not to teach women to iron and cook. No one argues that those aren't admirable pursuits, but plenty of Baptists don't believe that missions dollars should be going to support this program.
I'd also add that the controversy over the program within Baptist life has a lot to do with perceived mismanagment of Southwestern by President Paige Patterson to which some Baptists point. Those Baptists see this as just one more example of Patterson ruining what used to be the crown jewel of the SBC's educational institutions.
50. BDB said the following at 3:23 PM on Nov 5
Bethany D wrote:
>> I chose to major in "Hospitality Business Management"<<
Oohh...you're right - I forgot about that major completely! I went to one of those little liberal-arts colleges. We didn't even have an accredited engineering program, let alone hospitality management. No one would question a hospitality management concentration in an undergraduate degree program. But they are definitely the same skills. The best homemakers I know can also put together an awards banquet at a hotel for their kids' sports team. A few women I know planned and executed their own wedding receptions without wasting money, too.
51. JMarie said the following at 8:27 PM on Nov 5
I agree with Patricia2ndPoster...it would be great if high schools still offered home economics classes to both men and women. So many people need these skills! I was lucky enough to take a Home-Ec class in 8th grade, but the high school program was cut, and I'm not sure the school has the middle school program anymore, either. Home-Ec is generally the first thing to go when a school makes cuts. Probably why the seminary women requested the Homemaking classes.
52. Jessica said the following at 1:54 AM on Mar 5
I was wondering something...is it the daughter's responsibility to show an INTEREST in homemaking skills in ORDER to be taught those skills?What I mean is, isn't it the mother's responsibility to encourage and teach her daughter how to cook, clean, and sew, instead of blaming her daughter for showing no interest when she was younger? I think it's unbiblical for let's say, a family of five children- four of them boys, and one of them a girl- that the boys should know more about cooking and sewing than the girl does. Fundamental churches like to harp on the female gender because they "don't know how to be homemakers." Um...the older women in these same churches don't even show an interest in mentoring young women to KNOW how to do that stuff, so why blame us young women, because the older women refuse to obey what Titus 2 says. We cannot cook, sew, or whatever if someone does not bother to teach us. It's time someone got a burden to mentor other young single women to TEACH homemaking skills instead of being "SHOCKED" that "we don't know how to make a house a home." Young women nowadays are suffering very much so, and older women don't even seem to notice. They think that "burden" should be left up to someone else. I think it's very sad.