Fred Phelps' Money Troubles
by Denise Morris on 11/02/2007 at 12:02 AM
Fred Phelps and his gang are making headlines again. This time, they've been ordered by a jury to pay $11 million to the family of a dead soldier whose funeral they picketed. In case you haven't heard of Fred Phelps, he's the pastor of Westboro Baptist Church in Topeka, Kansas. He and his members go around to churches, organizations and funerals to picket our country's tolerance of homosexuality. They carry signs that say things like, "God hates fags" or "Thank God for dead soldiers." The reason they picket funerals of soldiers, specifically, is that they believe deaths of Americans in Iraq is God's judgment on America in regard to homosexuality.
Phelps said that the court's decision will not deter him from his practice -- he plans to keep on picketing along with the 75 members of his church.
Sigh. What do you even say about a person as confused as Phelps? Ted blogged about Phelps' visit to his church awhile back. That's right -- even conservative churches and places like Focus on the Family are too liberal for Phelps.
I already talked about the importance of being winsome, but this goes beyond that. Phelps' tactics are more than unhelpful to the cause of Christ -- they are opposed to it. I think they are cruel and unloving. I feel they are wrong.
I wonder what Phelps thinks of the passage in Matthew 25 that talks about the importance of feeding and clothing those who are in need.
1. whs said the following at 5:04 AM on Nov 2:
Spiritual warfare. That group is a tool of the enemy.
2. John D. said the following at 7:10 AM on Nov 2:
If I didn't know better I would suspect that Phelps and his followers are double agents, masquerading as conservative Christians (or the world's idea of conservative Christians, anyway) in order to discredit same.
I hope the public, Christian and non-Christian, will understand that Phelps and company are not what our faith is all about. I'm sure many buy into the stereotype, however.
3. Louise said the following at 7:16 AM on Nov 2:
Phelps deserves to be ignored.
He makes Coulter look like Little Bo Peep.
4. Andrew R. (aka Canadian Boy) said the following at 8:05 AM on Nov 2:
I read about what Phelps is doing, and I don't know whether I should laugh or cry.
I don't know what I'd do if someone I loved had served and died in Iraq, and then had their funeral picketed by Phelps and Co.
I hope this suit will really put a halt to their operations.
5. Loris said the following at 8:07 AM on Nov 2:
That man is disgusting. It's sad how the lunatic fringe can do so much to discredit real Christians.
6. Laura said the following at 8:29 AM on Nov 2:
I'm seriously going to be shocked if I get to heaven and find Fred Phelps there. I think he's going to hear "depart from me, worker of evil, I knew you not" unless the Lord radically transforms his hate-filled heart!
But I hope I never forget that it's only the grace of God that restrains me from becoming just as hateful, vitriolic, and sick.
7. Amir Larijani said the following at 8:43 AM on Nov 2:
Denise: I sincerely doubt whether Phelps or his band of nutjobs even qualifies as a Christian. My personal theory: they are a gay rights faction--funded by gay rights groups under the table--acting to sabotage Christians.
Ya know 'em by their fruits. And theirs smell more like the local sewer than like anything fit for human consumption.
8. Andrew R. (aka Canadian Boy) said the following at 11:43 AM on Nov 2:
"My personal theory: they are a gay rights faction--funded by gay rights groups under the table--acting to sabotage Christians."
I'm sorry (not really) but that's ridiculous. This is a group that is causing severe pain to homosexuals. The very suggestion that they're the work of gay activists is insulting. It's like saying that the KKK is run by African Americans to sabotage those in favour of segregation (Not that I'm comparing Christians to segregationists).
"I'm seriously going to be shocked if I get to heaven and find Fred Phelps there."
I hate the idea of this, but I'm just as much a sinner as Phelps. And I need redemption just as much as he does. Do I want to see Phelps in Heaven? Not the least bit. Is it my decision whether he goes there? No, and for that reason I won't be surprised if I see him there.
But, on the bright side, if Phelps does go to Heaven, he's probably going to be surprised by some people he sees there.
9. Adam Sloope said the following at 1:58 PM on Nov 2:
Funny, I wrote a blog about this myself on my site. Check it out if you want.
http://adamsloope.blogspot.com/2007/11/dont-say-it.html
10. Emily said the following at 4:24 PM on Nov 2:
Wait... did someone just say they don't want Fred Phelps in Heaven?
God does. And He wants Fred to be with Him eternally. That might not happen, I pray it does. But we serve a weird and awesome God.
11. Jo said the following at 4:36 PM on Nov 2:
Adam, I like your blog.
And, there was a very interesting expose on UK television about Phelps et al. A prominent British journalist (non-Christian) actually went to stay with the Phelps family in the hope of discovering the root of their beliefs and actions. I'd really recommend watching it, it's disturbing in so many ways - especially for how well it relates to the 'Ordinary Men' post a couple of weeks ago.
"The Most Hated Family In America"
12. Jethro said the following at 4:37 PM on Nov 2:
Just as not everyone who approves of abortion is a baby killing tree hugging far left socialist, not every conservative Christian is just another Fred Phelps. Maybe something worth bearing in mind when choosing to caricature the 'other side'...
13. Amir Larijani said the following at 5:33 PM on Nov 2:
Andrew:
What I have described is not an unconscionable scenario, especially when you look at who is really benefiting from the charades (the gay rights groups) and who is really getting hammered (Christians).
I am not a conspiracy theorist, but--being intellectually honest--saboteurs are not unprecedented in history.
14. shanka said the following at 10:09 AM on Nov 3:
i love that...we serve a weird and awesome God.
and that theory about phelps really being a gay rights advocate is kind of interesting.
it's true: we all have sinned and fallen short. it's good to be reminded of the fact that we are born just as depraved and it's only by God's grace that we, too, haven't fallen into uttter depravity.
with that said, it really angers me that some hear the word "christian" and associates with people like phelps and his crew. but the Bible gives us hope: even when one's intentions are bad, the Gospel can still shine through it. we trust in His sovereignty. if phelps is in heaven, we can praise the God of miraculous healing and deliverance for it.
15. Jill Anttila said the following at 11:06 AM on Nov 3:
I am also so saddened by the tactics of this man & his group. I only hope that those who always say something like "Islam is fine - it's just a few nuts" will have the same loving attitude towards Christianity.
16. Samuel PG said the following at 1:22 PM on Nov 3:
I, too, am heartbroken over the actions of Phelps and company, but we mustn't hate them just to prove our point that they do not accurately represent Jesus to the world. Let's pray for them and for those who might be given a false impression of Christ by them. If given the chance, let's try to get to know some of these people that we might be able to help them come to see the sinfulness of their approach. That, I believe, would communicate to everyone the true nature of the kingdom.
17. John P. said the following at 12:27 AM on Nov 4:
Amir:
Gay rights groups are secretly behind Phelp's actions? Tell that to Matthew Shepard's family.
That is such an idiotic Jack Chick-style "group X secretly runs the world" idea that it shouldn't be taken seriously for a second.
Do you honestly think there is an underground cabal of gays that plots ways to make people like Phelps look bad? You don't think they're primarily interested in, you know, gay rights?
18. Rober J Espe said the following at 9:20 AM on Nov 5:
I'm going to give the Baptist conferences in this country the benefit of the doubt and assume that Phelps is running an independent Baptist church, and that if he ever was part of the GBC or SBC that they have already revoked his ministry credentials and removed his church from fellowship. That would be the appropriate Christian response. Anyone know for sure?
19. John D. said the following at 9:46 AM on Nov 5:
John P --
Many historians believe that the Nazis set the Reichstag fire, the shocking, fiery attack on the German parliament building that gave Hitler the pretext to seize dictatorial powers and, eventually, to invade foreign nations.
Decent-minded people have a hard time plumbing the depths of the human soul, and thus believing that someone would act in a conspiratorial and deceptive manner. Believe me, it happens.
20. Andrew R. (aka Canadian Boy) said the following at 11:19 AM on Nov 5:
Let me get this straight:
There is a possibility that an organization that campaigns for the death penalty for homosexuals, says that "God Hates Fags" and that all homosexuals will burn in Hell... could be run by gay activists?
It doesn't make sense. Everyone knows Phelps does not represent the standard Christian beliefs- I can't think of anyone who'd see Phelps and think "Man, all Christians must be like this!" So if Phelps is actually a gay activist, he's gaining no ground in defaming Christians.
But most importantly, why would people who strive for gay rights spew poison that is aimed at "their own"? The people who are taking Phelp's message the hardest are homosexuals; it would be insanely counter-productive for gay activists to use this tactic!
John P. put it best (and he made me laugh) when he said: "That is such an idiotic Jack Chick-style "group X secretly runs the world" idea that it shouldn't be taken seriously for a second."
21. John D. said the following at 11:51 AM on Nov 5:
Andrew R. (aka Canadian boy) wrote, "So if Phelps is actually a gay activist, he's gaining no ground in defaming Christians."
With all due respect, Andrew, he most certainly is. Unsaved or nominal Christians look at him and perceive the worst stereotype of the Religious Right: a hate-filled, intolerant, obnoxious, pugnacious, self-righteous little toad of a man and his demented followers. "If that's conservative/Biblical Christianity," they say, "I don't want anything to do with it. I can find more loving and accepting people in Unitarian churches or gay bars, for that matter."
Have you ever heard it said that you may be the only Bible some people will ever read? I guarantee you that a LOT of people are seeing Phelps in the news, and are being turned away from Christianity, seeing nothing of the love of Jesus, the purity of holiness, the acceptance of sinners, the broken lives being made whole. They see an angry religious nut. The devil could not ask for a better false advertiser. Phelps is doing more for the acceptance of gays than the Human Rights Campaign and "Will and Grace" combined.
22. Holly said the following at 11:52 AM on Nov 5:
Fred Phelps has 13 children, 4 of whom have abandoned the family "business." Two of them have revealed the true horror of life with their father in the following (well-documented) expose: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/michael_haggerty/expose3.htm.
The notion that the Phelps clan could be funded by gay rights groups makes the lunatic Jack Chick stuff seem credible by comparison. We simply have to own him as someone using the name of Christ to do evil, and pray for those whom he is hurting and damaging.
23. Andrew R. (aka Canadian Boy) said the following at 12:31 PM on Nov 5:
John D.,
You may be right, I honestly don't know. I'd like to think that people would be smart enough to distinguish between Phelps and the rest of Christianity... but I could (easily) be wrong.
Nevertheless, it still doesn't make sense to me that Phelps is secretly a gay activist. Besides, if it was true, wouldn't someone have figured it out (paper trail, conflicting stories) by now?
24. Karen said the following at 2:22 PM on Nov 5:
My roommate is going to be a missionary to Sweden and she came across his website while looking up stuff on Sweden...have you seen his "music video" called "God hates the world"? Pretty amazing. They look like nice, normal people, but they teach that Sweden (because of the large amount of gay people) and America are going to Hell...which of course many people in these countries are...but God doesn't hate them and WANT them there. I guess they think they're the elect or something.
25. Karen said the following at 2:26 PM on Nov 5:
Robert J Espe, believe me, we Independent Baptists do NOT own him!! :^)
26. John P. said the following at 7:32 PM on Nov 5:
John D.:
You're not really doing your argument any favours by comparing gay rights groups to the Third Reich. Gay marriage ≠ Lebensraum. And the fact that I even have to say that is troubling.
One can either bend over backwards to say that Phelps is actually Gay Dr. Claw in disguise and that his entire storied history of hatred has been a clever bit of subterfuge, or one can just admit that he is a severely warped individual with a severely warped conception of Christianity.
27. John D. said the following at 8:49 AM on Nov 6:
John P,
I was not comparing gay rights groups to the Third Reich so much as offering a historical example of a group acting against its own self-interest in order to create sympathy or to trash the opposition by falsely blaming them. It's called a false-flag operation. The question we all have to ask ourselves is, who benefits from this action? In the case of Fred Phelps, the gays benefit when the Religious Right is made to look bad by this man's actions. Is Phelps an undercover agent for the gays, or is he simply a well-meaning Christian who has gone horribly astray? I don't know the answer to that question, but I do know who benefits.
A lot of the Nazis were gay, incidentally.
28. Michelle said the following at 9:32 PM on Nov 6:
"Phelps is doing more for the acceptance of gays than the Human Rights Campaign and 'Will and Grace' combined."
John D: I have to disagree with you there. I suspect if you took a poll of Americans, most have never heard of Mr. Phelps. People might have a vague notion of a group that protests against gays, but many more would be familiar with "Will & Grace." It seems like a show that presents homosexuality as normal and non-threatening would make the general public more comfortable with gay people. The protests of Phelps and his followers stir up sympathy for gays who are being verbally assaulted, but that sympathy is less likely to transform public opinion about, say, having a gay neighbor.
29. obewan said the following at 8:38 AM on Nov 12:
I hate to say it, but I think this is a case where the hate speech laws should be enforced against a church. Of course, it would only stoke his fires further, but he deserves to have his tax exempt status revoked until he learns the meaning of "hate the SIN, but LOVE the SINNER!"
30. John D. said the following at 11:31 AM on Nov 12:
Michelle,
I agree that "Will and Grace" and similar entertainment go a long way towards mainstreaming gays and lesbians.
These days more and more people are hearing about Phelps and his "church," in large part because of the 11 million dollar judgment against him. However, the fact that a tactic may not be working doesn't mean that it isn't being tried. Again, always ask yourself, "who benefits?" Phelps's strident and unbiblical caricature of the Christian Right can only hurt the cause of Christ.