WTC Bomber Receives Christ?
by Ted Slater on 10/12/2007 at 1:51 PM
The Kingdom of Heaven includes people with all sorts of backgrounds. The heaven-bound include sinners who've done drug, who've lied, who've stolen, who've committed sexual sins, who've cursed God ... and who've murdered.
The man who wrote most of the New Testament facilitated -- even encouraged -- the murder of Christians millennia ago. Notorious serial murderers Jeffrey Dahmer and Ted Bundy and "Son of Sam" David Berkowitz turned to Christ for salvation, crediting Him for redeeming their catastrophic lives.
And now it appears that Muslim terrorist Ramzi Yousef, responsible for the 1993 bombing of the World Trade Center and nephew of 9/11 mastermind Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, has turned to Christ. Amazing if true!
According to this article, "Yousef has shaved his beard, stopped reading the Muslim holy book, the Koran, and now eats pork, which is forbidden in Islam."
True, the man could be lying. As former New York federal prosecutor Andrew McCarthy said, "It could be sincere. On the other hand, the Prophet Muhammed said war is deceit."
But I'd like to believe that the Lord truly has poured out his incomprehensible mercy on Ramzi Yousef. After all, it wouldn't be against His character to carry out such a unfathomably gracious thing. He saved me, after all, and I'm the worst sinner I know.
1. k. said the following at 2:11 PM on Oct 12:
If Jeffrey, Ted, and this guy all became genuine Christians, then I'm the Queen of England. We're talking about men who are (or were) highly manipulative, deceitful and malicious. I'd be extremely skeptical of any real conversion on their part.
Of course, it's not my call--God's the only one who knows for sure.
2. Carrie said the following at 2:50 PM on Oct 12:
This past Sunday my pastor read of a story of a man who killed many people and sincerely became a follower of Christ. My pastor posed the question "So what do you think about a man who killed hundreds and is in Heaven while most of the people he killed are in Hell?". There are dozens of scenarios like this.
Maybe, just maybe, our idea of justice is a little warped and marred by The Fall of Man.
3. Nate Lotze said the following at 3:22 PM on Oct 12:
I really doubt he'd go so far as to eat pork if it wasn't genuine.
4. tom said the following at 3:51 PM on Oct 12:
Nate writes, "I really doubt he'd go so far as to eat pork if it wasn't genuine."
Hmmm. It's been documented that the 9/11 hijackers drank alcohol and used pornography--both forbidden by Islam--in order to better fit in with the American students at their flight schools.
5. Ted Slater said the following at 3:55 PM on Oct 12:
The thing is, Tom, that Ramzi Yousef has nothing to gain from pretending to be a Christian, and much to lose. That's why I tend to believe that he's truly turned his life over to the Lord.
He's in a supermax federal prison until he breathes his last; his "converting" is not going to lighten his sentence. In fact, coming out as a Christian could very well put his family in jeopardy. I imagine some more fanatical Muslims would want to kill those close to such a high-profile man who left the Muslim faith.
6. Chris Krycho said the following at 5:33 PM on Oct 12:
k.:
If Jeffrey, Ted, and this guy all became genuine Christians, then I'm the Queen of England. We're talking about men who are (or were) highly manipulative, deceitful and malicious. I'd be extremely skeptical of any real conversion on their part.
Of course, it's not my call--God's the only one who knows for sure.
You do realize that throwing that last bit out doesn't negate the fact that making that judgment call is precisely what you did, don't you? Saying "it's not my call" either makes the first half of your post meaningless, or you don't mean it.
It is God's call. And while I don't know for certain the state of any of those men, I think you need to remember that under today's laws, Paul would have been sentenced to prison and left there to rot if he weren't scheduled for execution - for the things he did to Christians, instead of the things he did as one after conversion. For what? Mass murder. You might take that under consideration before you so hastily throw around your judgments.
For someone who so frequently claims to be a person of more open mind, you seem very quick to judge here.
After all, as Ted points out with regard to the Muslim in question here, but as regards those men instead: what did they have to gain? It offered no solace to them if faked, and no reward here on earth.
7. Adam said the following at 6:07 PM on Oct 12:
A healthy dose of legitimate skepticism is appropriate when dealing with murderers, but as Ted made an excellent point logically about how we can determine his true conversion. Also, we have the ability to see the end result of his conversion by seeing the fruits of it. An interesting case no doubt, and it's refreshing to see these kinds of people turn to Christ, who is our only hope.
8. Phoebe said the following at 11:02 PM on Oct 12:
Glimpse the story (if true): A new life, a terrible past redeemed in eternity. A chance to grow in true obedience to Christ, not submission to Islam. An opportunity to witness to prisoners and guards, not at all an easy task. A brother in Christ.
Praise God, and pray that this is true!
9. Nate Lotze said the following at 11:25 PM on Oct 12:
Also, Muslims tend to treat alcohol and pornography differently from pork. I've met plenty of Muslims who indulge in the former, but never the latter.
10. whs said the following at 4:31 AM on Oct 13:
I'm not sure what we have to gain by "trying to determine his true conversion." He is still a human being and still has to serve his sentence. If he wants to learn more about how to live the Christian faith someone can teach him. There are just as many opportunities to "love your neighbor" in prison as out.
I'd rather rejoice in remembering the grace of our Father and be tricked than live in cynical judgement.
11. Anna said the following at 4:37 AM on Oct 13:
Nate writes, "I really doubt he'd go so far as to eat pork if it wasn't genuine."
Hmmm. It's been documented that the 9/11 hijackers drank alcohol and used pornography--both forbidden by Islam--in order to better fit in with the American students at their flight schools.
I'd have to agree with Nate here... My experiences living an American expat in the Middle East would indicate that eating pork is actually a fairly decent indicator of change (or at least a firm decision to appear changed). The vast majority of Muslims here drink, often clandestinely (even those in my very conservative Irani Shi'a neighborhood), and cable has more porn channels than anything in the States (according to co-workers who would know...). But no one eats pork, because that would be absolutely revolting.
Truly converted or not, I'll certainly be praying for Ramzi Yousef. Our God is the omnipotent God of miracles. Who are we to judge whom He chooses for Himself?
12. Diane said the following at 6:22 AM on Oct 13:
I remember when the Dahmer story was all over the news. How sickening. Truly, he was in a class of his own, right? Until later I learned that 1)he had accepted Christ and even later learned that 2) he credited Darwinian Naturalism for evil in society and the inspiration for his acts. My world(view) was rocked! Here I was thinking (as we all naturally do) that he was really, really lost...really utterly bankrupt of conscience. (In a special "class" of lostness. even!) True, most of us will not disconnect and kill like he did. But, if God's word IS ultimate reality, then we are ALL liars and of our Father the devil (a murderer and liar from the beginning) until regenerated and given a new heart and new mind, Praise God. The fall has rendered us all equally unable to please God nor escape His wrath. Most of us generally "good people" are simply (gloriously) benefiting from common grace and a generous helping of judeo-christian ethic holding American society as together as it is. However, it doesn't take much for the "disconnect" to occur, both individually and corporately. Hitler's Germany, for example. Not to mention the headlines replete with examples of more and more extreme brutality toward humanity by everyday citizens of OUR country. Sure, news is sensationalized. But, I think part of it is outgrowth of evolution being taught as truth unbridled and generally unchallenged. When we lose respect for life, and we are all merely "stuff" of matter, we are expendable. It is no longer "safe" to be a non-believer...our society is definitely post-christian and the fruit is abundant. Praise Him who saved us, certainly just as deserving of Hell forever as these men by just one sin...but for His grace.
By the way, when I heard that Dhamer was killed in prison, I wept for him. I hope that this man was saved. One thing is sure in my mind: if he had really "bought" the idea of naturalism, he was being completely, utterly consistent with his worldview.
13. k. said the following at 7:01 AM on Oct 13:
Chris K -- Seemingly, a blog is about posting opinions, no?? And it's my opinion that these guys can't be trusted an inch. Along with being reasonably open-minded, I am also fairly pragmatic and skeptical.
Of course, my opinion doesn't matter *to God;* it's His call whether these guys are saved. But I'm still allowed to have one! If you don't want to see my opinions, then don't read my posts. :)
14. Justice said the following at 11:24 AM on Oct 13:
Diane, didn't you just say he thought Darwinism was evil? and then you said he believed in naturalism? A little confused.
Who really knows? He did go to an extreme, think of all the Muslims that heard about this, were they fluked too? what would have been the purpose of being deceitful? It only would have discouraged other muslims.
15. Diane said the following at 11:47 AM on Oct 13:
I see how that was confusing...
Recently, I read an article (somewhere) about Dahmer's conversion and how he credited a naturalistic philosophy for much of HIS actions as well as the prevalent evil in society. That is, he understood retrospectively the ramifications of teaching (ultimately) that humans are of no consequence, and it is only intellectually consistent to treat them as commodities. This realization came to him post-salvation, apparently. I thought it was really interesting. Sorry for the confusion. I will see if I can find the article.
16. Katie said the following at 11:55 AM on Oct 13:
K--
God doesn't rate sin. Killing millions of people and lying are the same things to Him. We have all been RESCUED from a deep pit. "It is not our doing, it is the gift of God, SO THAT NO ONE MAY BOAST."
17. k. said the following at 3:00 PM on Oct 13:
Katie -- On the other hand, we humans definitely rate sin! Which is why we send convicted bomb plotters to prison, but not jaywalkers. Are both illegal? You bet. Are they viewed equally by the courts? Hardly.
You're misunderstanding my point. God is certainly capable of saving anybody, anytime, anywhere. I, on the other hand, am not. What I CAN do is use my God-given intellect, my moral framework, and my common sense to evaluate the sincerity and plausibility of the claims in question. Could I be wrong? Yes. Could other people legitimately come to a different conclusion than me? Of course.
However, my opinion remains: if those three guys became committed Christians, than I'm the Queen of England. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe I'm right...ultimately it doesn't really matter. Because when it comes to who is a believer and who isn't, my opinion is completely irrelevant to God, as it should be. However, my opinion *is* relevant to a blog posting.
18. Chris Krycho said the following at 9:01 PM on Oct 13:
I don't mind reading your opinion. My point was the hypocrisy of your view here. As well as the inherent contradiction in what you posted.
I understand your opinion and your skepticism. But you could just as easily have said, "If Saul truly converted to Christianity, I'm Caesar" a couple millennia ago. Again, while we ought to be discerning and not just blindly accept things of this variety, I believe we also need to be careful not to slip into outright cynicism, something all to easy to do in our culture.
Side note: I don't think we rate sin differently; I think we rate crime differently. And those most definitely are different things. "Crimes" exist both for moral and practical reasons, and the gradations result from a utilitarian and functional approach to stabilizing society in the absence of a perfect judge. Sins, unlike crimes, are breaches of nature rather than breaches of law; the two coincide only insofar as law reflects nature (and by nature I mean in the high sense, referring to the nature and character of God and man in the image of God). Insofar as law is a man-made construct, not necessarily directly linked to nature, it is therefore not the same as sin.
19. Kathryn said the following at 9:08 PM on Oct 13:
I want to rejoice. Saul was a man who persecuted the early church, yet God changed him and Paul was such a key influential author of the New Testament. It's amazing what God has done in both of them. I just pray that this Muslim is sincere!
20. James said the following at 10:07 PM on Oct 13:
Praise God that He's saved another wretched, undeserving soul from the firey pit!
This is awesome news, honestly :). And God's glory and mercy is even more magnified and made known through this man's conversion (if true, which I truly hope it is, though I have no reason to doubt it) as he was forgiven for so much more than many of the rest of us were. Remember what Jesus said, "He who is forgiven much, loves much."
Grace abounds in this news, and unlike the sceptics here, though I tend to be a realist, I know that this very sort of thing is TOTALLY in sync with God's character. Instead of doubting that God truly worked in these men and brought them to genuine repentance in light of no evidence against the claims, repent for your murmurring and then praise God for His magnificent grace at saving men such as us and such as them.
21. Amy said the following at 4:22 AM on Oct 14:
Amen James! I couldn't have said it better or agree more :o)
22. k. said the following at 8:30 AM on Oct 14:
Chris -- Hmm, what in the world is inherently contradictory in saying, "I don't think these guys are genuine, but God's the only one to know for sure"?? It sounds pretty darn obvious to me: the Lord is not on tenterhooks waiting for me to cast my vote on whether they're really saved. At the same time, I feel quite sure that He doesn't mind if I exercise the intellectual tools in my armory to develop my own opinion. (Deviousness + maliciousness + track record of callous disregard for other's lives + possible psychopathic traits = someone I wouldn't trust as far as I can throw them.) I'm not sure what's so terrible about doubting someone who goes from "Death to infidels!" to "Jesus wants me for a sunbeam."
Also, Katie's point seemed to be that God views all sin equally. We, however, view things slightly differently: we have degrees and nuances of sin/crime/wrongdoing/etc. If you were on the subway, would you rather sit next to a convicted axe murderer, or someone who told their mother-in-law the roast beef was delicious when it was really terrible??
One person's "inherent hypocrisy" is another person's "acknowledging different perspectives." Which is a useful skill, I might add. Why don't you say to-mah-to, I'll say to-may-to, and we'll both go on with our lives? :)
23. Joseph said the following at 8:35 AM on Oct 14:
I question the content of this blog in general, it comes across with the kind of skepticism about true faith that we should not be so quick to judge. The originating article is a skeptical journalist, he is allowed to write whatever thoughts about his bias against Christianity. AS Christians why would we be so quick to question one's true conversion?
I wonder how Ananias responded when he was told to tend to Saul/Paul. Granted he was told via dream verses a questioning article. Perhaps this is just the example we need in our current state of warfare to have someone from within join us.
I have no reason to doubt his conversion, if I meet the man hopefully we could talk about such things, until then why question his new faith? Is that how we ought to encourage new believers?
24. Chris Krycho said the following at 8:49 AM on Oct 14:
I agree with James here. I was considering further on this and feel compelled to point out that from a spiritual perspective, it is not only about gradations of sin - but about how infinitely far all of us were from God before He in His grace saved us. Not one of us could claim any righteousness of our own. Not any. The kinds of skeptical responses here might belie a sense that our own sin was somehow less grievous; that our own salvation was somehow less miraculous; that our own distance from God was somehow less. (No one would consciously articulate such views, most likely.) But when one is infinitely removed from something, gradations on the scales we're talking about are literally meaningless. They're still infinitely far away. There is no more and no less a reason for this man to be able to come to salvation in Christ than for you or I - because the work, in every case, is only that of God Himself. (This is true regardless of your stance on Calvinism/Arminianism debate: either way it is the work of God to open your eyes and work grace in your heart, not your own, because of yourself you would never have chosen rightly. Scripture is clear on that point.)
Skepticism when known manipulators make claims that could benefit them? Sure. But when there is no benefit whatsoever in this life, why the skepticism? Perhaps it is because at some deep level we want to believe we are better. But we are not. We are, like these men, sin-stained members of humanity who have been rescued from ourselves by the incomparable grace and mercy of God.
25. Sunshine said the following at 10:06 AM on Oct 14:
I think it's hard to trust people such as Ramzi Yousef as to whether they are sincere in their conversion. But it's better to hope in the God who can change the heart of Paul, and hope that He's done the same with this man.
26. James said the following at 1:00 PM on Oct 14:
There's a difference between cautious skepticism like the believers had towards Paul at first (though Ananias didn't say to God, "Yeah, right. If Saul converted then I'm the Emperor of Rome"), and someone saying "I don't believe it for a second."
I too have my honest doubts, but for now I'm willing to put them aside and eagerly await the Lord to work even more in this man's life that we might see the fruits of the spirit in him. It's a little early to be saying "I highly doubt it." Now, if he never shows the fruit of the spirit (as far as I know, he's not in total isolation, so he'll have opportunity to show forth the fruit), then that's one thing. But this is very recent. His fruit is still just budding and not full blown and ripe.
Why go around with an initial attitude of "I'll believe it when I see it!" instead of, "Lord, you are so gracious! May these things we hear of this conversion be true!"
I'm one of those folks who thinks the church has done an awful job of applying spiritual discernment, but discernment is NOT skepticism. I encourage discernment. I rebuke (and am sometimes rebuked FOR) skepticism.
It's also the skeptic that says, "No, that would never happen." Aka, putting limits on God that God never stated Himself.
27. Samuel PG said the following at 3:57 PM on Oct 14:
I am floored by the responses of so many people on here. Why is it so hard to accept that a terrorist came to Christ? Don't we all pray (from time to time, though it should be often) that God would bring the terrorists to His amazing grace? Why are we surprised to see these prayers answered?
We should be more wary of saying that anyone who claims to be a Christian is not than we should fear that someone is claiming to be a Christian as deceptive means. Remember in the parable of the wheat and the tares, the servants ask the owner of the field,
"Do you want us to go and pull them up?"
To which he responded,
"No, because while you are pulling the weeds, you may root up the wheat with them. Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn."
Let's not risk uprooting wheat for the sake of clearing out weeds, but trust that God's judgment will be right.
Praise God for this precious brother!
28. RF said the following at 9:34 PM on Oct 14:
It's been said before, but just to reiterate the no pork thing. I've lived in a Muslim area for the last two years. When you ask a Muslim here what it means to mean Muslim, his answer is simply, "I don't eat pork." He says nothing about Allah or the other basic tenets of Islam...so drinking and pornography is simply not even a consideration. If Yousef is willing to eat pork, it sounds like he's rejected Islam....
29. Naomi said the following at 12:32 AM on Oct 15:
God has instituted a rule: "You reap what you sow."
He's not going to go back on His Word.
He also said we're saved by grace. He's also not going to go back on that.
It's hard to analyze but that's what the Word says.
Besides, let's see if this guy has really "converted." Jesus said, "By their fruits, you shall know them." So let's wait.
30. Mack said the following at 12:22 PM on Oct 15:
All I can say is what one person told me once - God is bigger than any and all of us. Our ways are not his ways, and we cannot lean on our own understanding.
He continuously works miracles and, while i wouldn't trust any of the guys listed above any further than i could throw them, i would not be surprised.
31. Katie said the following at 6:18 PM on Oct 15:
K-
I'm not saying you can't have an opinion, and I think you are right to be skeptical...we should be in a world like this.
However, I'm put off somewhat by your tone in the matter--I get the impression that you somehow think these guys deserve God less than you or I, "upstanding" citizens, would. Maybe that's not what you mean, but that's what it comes across as. When you say "If the WTC bombers are saved, then I'm the queen of England," you make it sound like it's IMPOSSIBLE for someone that horrible to be saved. Do you mean something else? Maybe you can help me understand what you're saying.
I don't think for a minute that WTC bombers or hijackers or whoever have not done something atrocious and evil. They have, and it is appalling and unthinkable to me. But in God's eyes, we all have done something evil. We are all separated from Him. We are DEAD in our transgressions. Only God can get us out of it. We are not remotely capable of saving ourselves, regardless of our upbringing or even our morality. That's Biblical. I hope you understand that.
32. Rachael said the following at 6:30 PM on Oct 15:
Tangentially . . .
I have to say it's ironic that the "proof" of this man's conversion is that he is willing to eat a meat that Jesus Himself never would have touched because the Torah forbids it.
By their fruits you will know them. Eating pork is not a fruit. (Whether it is evidence of a rejection of Islam I will leave to those more knowledgeable than I.)
33. James said the following at 7:46 PM on Oct 15:
Rachael, Jesus came to fulfill the Law.
Remember what God told Peter in a dream in the book of Acts, "Arise, Peter. Kill and eat." God was making the point that the Mosaic law had passed away and that all foods were free to be eaten.
Naomi, Yousef will very much reap what he has sown, and he's doing that. His sentence is being carried out as society deemed right for his crime. He has reaped what he had sown. But also, God in his Grace has brought him to salvation. That won't get Yousef out of prison, nor should it. But the punishment for his sins has now been shown to have already been put on Christ on the cross and thus been paid for already. He will justly stay in prison, but his soul now has eternal life.
34. Susan said the following at 7:54 PM on Oct 15:
No kidding, it's God's call!
All this yak, and I think all we can say is,
Praise God that He is the One who is able and WILLING to save sinners such as Yousef, Dahmer, Bundy, Berkowitz, whoever. Who has such love and mercy? Who else can take my sin, their sin, anyone's sin and remove it as far as the east is from the west?
And guess what? That "sinners such as & whoever" includes ME. That puts me right at the foot of the Cross along with these guys. Any one of us in this blog might well be standing next to one of these guys in heaven, and who will even give it a thought? We'll be so blown away by the presence of God and fellowship with Jesus that we won't even notice who they once were - just in the way Jesus no longer notices who I was once. We'll just be praising Him, saying "Salvation to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb"
Praise God, for He alone is worthy!
35. Rachael said the following at 10:39 PM on Oct 15:
James,
"Jesus came to fulfil the Law" - My point exactly... I think. Is breaking any other of the laws that Jesus fulfilled, evidence of following Him?
36. James said the following at 7:22 PM on Oct 16:
Rachael, the point is that Scripture itself says that the old law is passing away. We are NOT held to it any longer.
And I'm not at all pointing to the fact that this guy is now willing to eat pork. Thing is that that's a proof he's rejected Islam. Evidence of Christ will come through fruits of the Spirit.
37. David said the following at 9:00 PM on Oct 16:
According to John Douglas ( FBI profiler ) Ted Bundy was withholding information regarding his murders right up until his death. Just because someone experiences conversion doesn't mean they are safe,have right doctrine or are trustworthy. It will take decades for Yousef to renew his mind just like the rest of us and if he has pathological leanings, even longer. I am glad if he is indeed my brother but he should never be let out of prision.
38. San Soo said the following at 10:05 PM on Oct 16:
Ted said: "But I'd like to believe that the Lord truly has poured out his incomprehensible mercy on Ramzi Yousef."
What's so hard to believe about that? God poured out his mercy on everyone 2,000 years ago.
39. Carrie Lea said the following at 4:26 PM on Oct 17:
James,
It's fascinating to me that most Christians interpret Jesus's words as: "I have not come to abolish the Law, but to abolish the Law."
I'm with Rachael on this one. Jesus upheld every single commandment in the Torah. Anyone who says otherwise will have to explain away His words: "Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments [Torah] and teaches others to do the same shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven." (Matthew 5:19)
40. Bex said the following at 3:40 PM on Oct 25:
Is the God of the Bible not sovereign, not capable to call to Himself all human creation? If the name of Christ is making a headline at all, praise be! He lives.
This gives us an opportunity.
Isaiah 43:7 "Everyone who is called by My name, whom I have created for My glory; I have formed him, yes, I have made him."
MY FIANCE IS FIGHTING FOR OUR FREEDOM, BUT MY SAVIOR'S FIGHT IS WON! May each one's life be integrated with WAR, the spiritual one.
THUS SAYS THE LORD: "Look to Me, and be saved all you ends of the earth! For I am God, and there is no other." -Isa. 45:22
If this guy is saved, he'll go to Heaven...to that there is no debate.
However, if one reading this is saved...(yes, YOU!!):
"See then that you walk circumspectly, not as fools but as wise, redeeming the time, because the days are evil." -Eph. 5:15-16
Maranatha.